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Ki22

Why Can't Sheldon And Amy Have An Asexual Relationship?

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Thank you for what you have said...many people do not get love without a physical aspect...they have done that for years (Sheldon and Amy).  Sheldon has become more comfortable with Touching since Amy...and kissing  (of all things)...They have changed the relationship...that does not not change the "Character premise).  They are who the are "written".  But, I have complete faith that the writers will keep it true.   I don't know if they know about "asexual" or did not think of that for Sheldon...but, I also hope that they don't change the relationship too drastically...make it just for the time they have sex.   The RELATIONSHIP is the important part...not the pressure from the audience for them to "get it over with" and be a "Normal Couple".

I am a neutral asexual...I have relationships...to friends and close friends...that is it.  Other asexual people are not the same as me...(I am middle square)  There are asexual people whom have had different experiences.  Some have relationships and sex, others have relationships and no sex.  This is the reason I put the AVEN site out there...I cannot speak for all of them.  I can only speak for myself and what I see in the Sheldon and Amy characters.  It does not necessarily mean "no sex".  

I have tried to explain this before.

ki

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I agree. I think he's a heterosexual but because of all his germs and touch phobias, he's learned to suppress it all these years (Kolinar, anyone?) until Amy came along. Now he's more open to a more physical relationship with her but again, because of his phobias, it's taking a lot longer than it would other heterosexuals. But that's just how I see it.

Sure in earlier seasons, he came off as asexual but after Amy, there are clues everywhere that he's not.

I'm not an asexual but would an asexual say, feel, or think the following:

"Fascinating" (after being kissed)

"She is not for you! Not for you!" (when he thought Leonard and Amy had sex. Showing jealousy)

"Why is everyone so obsessed with Amy and Stuart? And whether or not they may be having more pumpkin lattes or intercourse tonight?" (why would he care if she's having intercourse with someone else if he himself isn't interested in doing so himself someday once he gets over his phobias?)

Actually interrupting her date with Stuart to make her his girlfriend and then actually breaking into her apartment and waiting for her when she gets home from said date to sign the relationship agreement instead of waiting until a more appropriate time.

"Her efforts are causing me to have affectionate feelings for her at inappropriate times."

"....when suddenly the particles morphed into an image of Amy's dandruff gently cascading down onto her pale, slightly hunched shoulders." (keep in mind, he hasn't bathed her yet while she was sick. Has he been picturing her naked?)

"What has that vixen done to me and how do I make it stop?" (Sounds like he's becoming PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED to her. Isn't that something asexuals can't do?)

I don't mean to sound offensive to anyone who is asexual (yes, I know there are people out there who really are asexual) but I seriously don't think he is now or ever was in the beginning. I think it's been his phobias that's been holding him back (and no other girl he's met before Amy has been worth it for him to try and change) the whole time and he's let everyone believe what they want. As Leonard states when Penny asks what Sheldon's deal is, they've been OPERATING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that he has no deal. Nobody actually asked Sheldon himself.

And if he does have a form of asexuality, then yeah, I would agree he's Demisexual and it's just been realized after Amy came along.

But again, I think IMO, he never was asexual to begin with.

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I am Asexual neutral and yes I have been fascinated by a kiss,  I have been jealous of my friends being in stronger relationships with other people, when I used to be their best friend.  And yes, I have been a bit concerned that I would be dropped after this "new" relationship takes hold.  My married friends have moved away and have their own lives now.  I miss them.  I have tried to "steal" friends back... but let them go in the end.  No, I have not given them a "relationship agreement".

Most of what has been written I can answer to as an asexual neutral.  We have strong friendships and it is hard when they go away.  Friendships are all I have.

 

In the beginning...they did not know where they were going with "Sheldon".

In development... they made the choice for Him to not be as interest in "physical relationships".  He has still said that He finds the idea of coitus to be ridiculous and off putting.

He Loves Amy...I mean...who wouldn't?!  I Love the Amy and the "Shamy"!  I just do not think that this conversation is done yet...even if I thought it was before...I think we still need to talk.  I have some communication issues...but, I am trying to clarify things.

Thank you all who have read this...even when you don't agree!

ki

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In the beginning...they did not know where they were going with "Sheldon".

In development... they made the choice for Him to not be as interest in "physical relationships".  He has still said that He finds the idea of coitus to be ridiculous and off putting.

He Loves Amy...I mean...who wouldn't?!  I Love the Amy and the "Shamy"!  I just do not think that this conversation is done yet...even if I thought it was before...I think we still need to talk.  I have some communication issues...but, I am trying to clarify things.

Thank you all who have read this...even when you don't agree!

ki

 

That's how you see it, I see it that in development they made the choice to have Sheldon "become" (I think he always has been, in his own way) interested in "physical relationships" .

I think this, because they have let us know for example he read the book Lenny gave him. He also had thoughts about Amy's physical appearance.

 

We will just have to wait and see where "they" are going with the Shamy, but I have a pretty good idea.

Edited by Chiany

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Here's something I found interesting but I don't know how reliable it is. It's from Entertainment Weekly by Michael Ausiello dated Jan. 2010. Sorry, don't know how to copy & paste from phone.

When talking about a possible hook-up between Sheldon & Penny, Chuck Lorre shot it down (thank God) by saying the following:

"Part of what's wonderful & unique about Sheldon is he has CHOSEN not to play in the relationship game either way, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, any sexuality. He has said, 'This is not for me. I'm a scientist. All I'm interested in is science and what George Lucas thinks.' We've stumbled into creating a character who has CHOSEN a lifestyle for himself that is unique. And I don't see any reason to modify it."

Added Prady: "Sheldon has made a CHOICE that work and all of that is where he finds his passion."

If this article is true and accurate then I think we have our answer. Before Amy, he CHOSE to not enter into any romantic relationship and now that he has Amy, I think we can safely say he's heterosexual and has been the whole time.

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Sorry...the development part was in response to this.  And I think that after the first year...they had the non-sexual in mind.

I can also say that, as an asexual, my friends have tried to get me interested too...and hooked up.  They always want to try and set you up...even though you have had "The Talk" with them.  Sweet , but misguided.  I like the way people look...even think about it...I am an artist.  physical appearance.  I don't think that is an indicator of anything. Sheldon is a scientist... same degree of study would be expected.  He would be curious.

ki

Edited by Ki22

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Sorry...the development part was in response to this. And I think that after the first year...they had the non-sexual in mind.

I can also say that, as an asexual, my friends have tried to get me interested too...and hooked up. They always want to try and set you up...even though you have had "The Talk" with them. Sweet , but misguided. I like the way people look...even think about it...I am an artist. physical appearance. I don't think that is an indicator of anything. Sheldon is a scientist... same degree of study would be expected. He would be curious.

ki

At the end of the day, we are talking about a FICTIONAL character. The writers created him which means Sheldon is whatever the hell they say he is. End of story.

But if he were real, we'd simply just ask him. Someone finally did ask the writers (which in a sense, they are Sheldon, along with being all the other characters) in Jan. 2010. What I wrote above is their answer.

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At the end of the day, we are talking about a FICTIONAL character. The writers created him which means Sheldon is whatever the hell they say he is. End of story.

But if he were real, we'd simply just ask him. Someone finally did ask the writers (which in a sense, they are Sheldon, along with being all the other characters) in Jan. 2010. What I wrote above is their answer.

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Of course it is a FICTIONAL character.  (2010?)   But the writer know they have to keep true...otherwise the "show" would have broken down years ago.   I am not arguing with the "end game" of this show....I don't know what it is...Do you?   I am just saying it is what it is now and the writers may have other ideas than any of us think of.   Why is there so much hostility?   What is the problem?   Did you not like Sheldon before Amy?

Maybe we should switch to talking about the evolution of Amy?  This is, after all, about both of them.

ki

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  Amy started out as a female Sheldon.   That was what Actor Mayim was told to be...a female Jim Parsons...on the show.  This Is where this part of the conversation starts.  She took great pains to find out what that was...and was brilliant in her execution! 

ki

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Really?  No one wants to talk about Amy?   She started with She had an agreement with her Mother that she would date once a year...in return for her silence on the matter...and the use of her Forman grill.

ki

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The writers have already explained about Amy. In a nutshell, She was the one who wanted the whole social thing when she was in school but she didn't get it. She got picked on and shunned instead. So she gave up her hopes of ever getting it....until she met Sheldon and the gang. Sheldon on the other hand, never gave a crap about having friends and stuff.

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Sheldon woulden't even be thinking about relationships and sex and stuff if it wasen't for Amy. He would still be same old Sheldon, on the spectrum. Is the show really this deep though? I had no idea Big Bang was so complicated. It is like with Asperges Syndrome. The writers say he was tested, so he is not crazy. So therefore put him on the spectrum. They can do that without offending anyone. End of the day its a comedy. Same kinda deal with being in a Assexual relationship. Like some said he would prob be classed as Demisexual. So therefore I don't being in an Assexual relationship is appropriate here. I am not saying the writer's woulden't go their. But they have already made references, to Sheldon desiring Amy in that context. So should Shamy be in a Assexual Relationship? No.  

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Hmmmm.

What I have been trying to say,is that, the character Sheldon is like an Asexual (neutral) and the character Amy is like an Asexual (demi).

These relationships do happen.  It would not be out of the realm of the Characters or of the Story. The Writers RULE!

 

An Asex Neutral would not have very much interest in the physical side of the relationship. Much more interested in the discourse and interest side.

 

The Demi Asex has a bit more interest in a physical relationship, be that cuddling or even as far as sex.

The Demi is into the romance and the heart of the relationship...not as much the meeting of the minds.

 

They are both Asexual....So even if you place them in Neutral and Demi...they are still in an Asexual relationship.

Love is the constant in any relationship.

 

Happy Holidays!

Peace!

ki

Edited by Ki22

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Sorry, Amy is not anywhere on the asexual spectrum.  See her conversation with Penny in the car, in "The Higgs Boson Observation" about displaying her hindquarters at the Junior Prom or "The Alien Parasite Hypothesis" among others.  Her reaction to Zack was  overtly sexual and her display claim is blatantly sexual.    

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Also I don't think Sheldon is asexual either. For starters, there's what the writers said in 2010. He CHOOSES this lifestyle. You don't choose your sexual orientation. Second, you said, Ki, "An Asexual Neutral would not have very much interest in the physical side of the relationship." Sheldon has shown or acknowledged his physical desire for Amy. The way he stepped into the first kiss he gave her is not an action an asex neutral would do. He also wouldn't think the first kiss she gave him was "fascinating." And at prom he admitted that his panic attack was due to him thinking she was very pretty, a PHYSICAL thing.

A lot of people have answered your topic question. Why do you keep dismissing our answers? Especially the one where the writers have basically said what he is. He CHOOSES to live as an asexual before Amy came along. Now, he's not acting like one and we all know you can't choose your sexual orientation.

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He chooses a lifestyle.  You can be any sexuality and CHOOSE to focus on your work ahead of personal relationships.  That happens every where.  I think we are talking about something different when we are talking about Asexual.  I think the communication is off somehow.  I apologize if I have not been clear enough.

 

And yes you are correct that some Asexual neutrals would not move into the kiss.  The Character Sheldon would have, as this was his first personally initiated kiss...it is a new experience and cannot be over looked.  Also, he loves Amy.  This is a new realization also.

 

I believe we need to again find out where we are all coming from.  If you do not think this is worth talking about...then that is fine. Some people do... and I will keep talking about the possibility.

 

And yes, I know the characters are going to end up as a "normal"/"traditional" couple.  This is the way the writers are currently going.  I love the writing!  I don't have a problem with that...as long as it is true.

 

I am just trying to put forth the "idea" that an asexual couple would not hurt the story or the characters.  It would not be unnatural to the telling at all...it would actually explain a lot.

 

Again...no ill will.

ki

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Also I don't think Sheldon is asexual either. For starters, there's what the writers said in 2010. He CHOOSES this lifestyle. You don't choose your sexual orientation. Second, you said, Ki, "An Asexual Neutral would not have very much interest in the physical side of the relationship." Sheldon has shown or acknowledged his physical desire for Amy. The way he stepped into the first kiss he gave her is not an action an asex neutral would do. He also wouldn't think the first kiss she gave him was "fascinating." And at prom he admitted that his panic attack was due to him thinking she was very pretty, a PHYSICAL thing.

A lot of people have answered your topic question. Why do you keep dismissing our answers? Especially the one where the writers have basically said what he is. He CHOOSES to live as an asexual before Amy came along. Now, he's not acting like one and we all know you can't choose your sexual orientation.

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I chose the word "physical" poorly... It should have been "sexual".  There are many asexual people who do become physical with those they love.  (Some Asexual people have gotten married and have had sex with people they love.)  The main is...Asexual people have little to no need desire or interest in a sexual relationship.

 

I am not dismissing the answers..I have just not seen and actual "reason" why an asexual relationship cannot exist...( I also do not think that we are on the same page when it come to Asexual)

 

Give me the number of the post you think I am dismissing and I will go back and try to explain why it is not a "reason".

 

Also, What do you mean by Asexual?

Sorry again, we do not communicate well... Myself included.

 

ki

Edited by Ki22

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Ok,

I will go back to the beginning of this post and go over every "reason" stated and explain why it is not a "reason" why they cannot have an asexual relationship without "dismissing" it, I will try to "explain" why with out sounding dismissing.

I am used to talking.

You do not need to respond.

But, I will try to make things right...dismissal wise.

 

I am aware that the relationship is changing in the current shows...(they only have two years till completion, unless the show is extended. : )!

I will deal with that after I answer the previous questions to the argument.

 

Definition?

Asexual people have Little to No Need, Desire, or Interest in a sexual relationship with others.

Focus on the word little.

We do have friendships and even fall in love.

That does not change need, desire, or interest in sexual relation level.  They still have a little to no level compared to the other person.  It takes communication to make that relationship work.

There are many asexual people who fall in love, marry, and have children.

There are, likewise, those who don't or have other relationships, including having relationships with other asexual people.

If you need further clarification, please let me know.

This may take a while.

Be well.

ki

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"Why can't Sheldon and Amy have an asexual relationship?"

Because the writers don't want them to. End of story.

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Are you a writer or have inside information?

They have not said or written anything contrary to an asexual relationship. They have spoken one way or the other. 

Ok, Amy has changed, but, Sheldon will never have the same level of need, desire, or interest in a sexual relationship as Amy.  The writers do not do drastic change in the core Characters.  Unless you have an inside scoop?

 

I will get back to figuring how to answer the former "reasons" without sounding like I am being dismissive.

happy new year.

ki

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Are you a writer or have inside information?

They have not said or written anything contrary to an asexual relationship. They have spoken one way or the other. 

Ok, Amy has changed, but, Sheldon will never have the same level of need, desire, or interest in a sexual relationship as Amy.  The writers do not do drastic change in the core Characters.  Unless you have an inside scoop?

 

I will get back to figuring how to answer the former "reasons" without sounding like I am being dismissive.

happy new year.

ki

 

Because if they ever wanted Sheldon to be Assexual. They would of never got him a girlfriend in the first place. Why does it matter anyway? I don't think it is neccessary for them to be in an Assexual relationship. Fine if you would want that, but not everyone who watches the show does. 

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How is this still being argued? I'm quite frankly baffled.

 

Sheldon's aversion to sex or intimacy has always been grounded in the same reasoning as his aversion to romantic or even platonic relationships (in which we’ve seen an obvious shift in his attitudes in the last few years) as well as his aversion to any kind of physical contact. He’s a man of science, and his goals in life were always focused on the pursuit of knowledge and he felt that a lot of the social conventions around relationships were a distraction or a waste of time. And this was largely due to the fact that he’d been ostracized as a child and was a loner his whole life, and he’d never experienced any of it and had no idea what it would feel like to be in a relationship or to have those things in his life. He is also a germaphobe and things like kissing or sexual intercourse fell under an "unclean" category for him. He didn't like to touch people or be touched because of that reason.

 

That is not the same thing as being asexual. And it is really a disservice to the character to mislabel him because it's important for you to have a particular role model on television and you need it to be this one, and moreover it’s a disservice to the asexuality community to imply that anyone who isn’t interested in sex at a given moment must be asexual. That’s not the same thing. There are many reasons why a person might say no to sex, and they’re not all necessarily related to a person’s sexual orientation. Attributing all of those reasons to asexuality is really misguided and harmful. You need to realize that Sheldon is a person whose views on sex are ever-changing and evolving. But you're misreading cues if you think he's asexual. Yes, an argument for that could have been made in perhaps the first five seasons. But we've begun to see an intentional shift in his thinking and feeling, which means that he was never asexual in the first place, he just had better things to do.

 

One of the most common misconceptions about asexuality that non-ace people have is that someone who identifies as such is simply “not ready yet” and that with a little bit of time and patience and the “right person,” they will eventually “get ready” for sex. It’s in the same vein as saying that lesbians just “haven’t found the right guy yet” or that gay guys “haven’t found the right girl.” It’s harmful to the asexuality community to take a character like Sheldon and label him as asexual because what you’re implying is that asexuality is something that can be changed with a bit of patience and hard work or the "right person," that all people eventually will want and desire sex and anyone who doesn’t want it right now is “asexual,” but that will change because no one is asexual forever, right?

 

Sheldon has explained his position with his sexuality as best he can. He has a harder time with physical intimacy than most people, but it’s something that he is working on, something that he hasn’t ruled out, and he admits that it’s a possibility that he will one day be comfortable with sex. He just isn’t right now. And that’s fine, and that doesn’t make him asexual. To label him as asexual is to imply that it is an orientation that is temporary for people who need to be somehow fixed. That someone who is asexual is just “not ready yet” but they’ll get there eventually.

 

Sheldon is not asexual. He has been shown to have sexual thoughts and desires. He’s just not ready for sex yet and is going at his own pace and by his own admission, he is working on it and has opened his mind to the idea of it. So let’s please not perpetuate harmful misconceptions about asexuality by saying that Sheldon is asexual when that’s simply just not the case.

 

Especially if your argument is “I want him to be asexual because I am asexual.” Won't you be much happier to see asexuality represented in a character who can clearly label his or herself as such, and provide an accurate representation of it? You don't want a character like Sheldon who is battling his way through his sexual desires to represent asexuality, because that's going to perpetuate a lot of harmful misconceptions that already exist about asexuality.

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It's still being argued MichyGeary because most posters, including yourself BTW, do not seem to grasp the basics surrounding asexuality.

Asexuality is a sexual orientation that is defined by the person having no sexual attraction to other people.

Asexuals can/do experience sexual urges which they deal with by masturbation ("a cross we must all bear" / kohlinahr).

You mention Grey-A's and within this category of asexuality you will find the term Demisexual, which is an absolute match for Sheldon's current situation.

Like Neutral Asexuals, Demisexuals do not experience primary attraction. Primary attraction is, in a nutshell, fancying a good looking stranger or someone on a TV show, or anyone you don't know particularly well.

In common with all other sexual orientations, Demisexuals experience secondary attraction. This is the sexual attraction that you feel for your partner (husband / wife / boyfriend / girlfriend), friend, maybe a teacher or workmate you fancy, anyone you know well.

Sheldon has displayed sexual attraction on one occasion (the train kiss), to one person (Amy). Outside of this anomaly, he has been shown to have no attraction to another person. Examples off the top of my head, the Klingon Boggle game where he was oblivious to the supermodels and his incomphrension as to how Penny's breasts would help Leonard gain tenure.

Sheldon is a fictional character created by Chuck Lorre who stated in 2010 that Sheldon chooses to abstain from relationships. However, by removing primary attraction from the character he draws a more asexual figure than a celibate one.

To clarify and simplify, sexual attraction is broken down to these basic forms:-

Primary Attraction: fancying a hot stranger.

Secondary Attraction: fancying someone you know well.

Primary Desire: the desire to have sex for your own pleasure.

Secondary Desire: the desire to have sex to give pleasure to others.

Asexual neutrals experience one form; secondary desire alone (this is the example Ki is giving).

Demisexuals experience three forms; secondary attraction, primary desire and secondary desire (my example).

All other sexual orientations experience all four forms.

His phobias, his touch issues, his pride (he believes his dismissal of sex makes him superior) all add to his reluctance, but they would not remove primary attraction (there's no outside touch involved with masturbating over catwoman after all).

I think if you are going to address this issue by stating Sheldon is one thing or the other (and declaring someone else's opinion wrong in doing so) then it's important to actually be well informed. Anyone interested in being well informed about asexuality can visit the AVEN website for more information (and I include link again, along with the Wiki page that is more concise).

http://www.asexuality.org

http://m.wikihow.com/Understand-Asexual-People

So, quick recap;

Asexual people DO have sexual urges (they have fully functioning gentials, maybe even aesthetically pleasing ones) but they are not attracted to other people.

Demisexuals experience sexual attraction to a person they have a close bond to.

Edited by ATOB
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It's still being argued MichyGeary because most posters, including yourself BTW, do not seem to grasp the basics surrounding asexuality.

Asexuality is a sexual orientation that is defined by the person having no sexual attraction to other people.

Asexuals can/do experience sexual urges which they deal with by masturbation ("a cross we must all bear" / kohlinahr).

You mention Grey-A's and within this category of asexuality you will find the term Demisexual, which is an absolute match for Sheldon's current situation.

Like Neutral Asexuals, Demisexuals do not experience primary attraction. Primary attraction is, in a nutshell, fancying a good looking stranger or someone on a TV show, or anyone you don't know particularly well.

In common with all other sexual orientations, Demisexuals experience secondary attraction. This is the sexual attraction that you feel for your partner (husband / wife / boyfriend / girlfriend), friend, maybe a teacher or workmate you fancy, anyone you know well.

Sheldon has displayed sexual attraction on one occasion (the train kiss), to one person (Amy). Outside of this anomaly, he has been shown to have no attraction to another person. Examples off the top of my head, the Klingon Boggle game where he was oblivious to the supermodels and his incomphrension as to how Penny's breasts would help Leonard gain tenure.

Sheldon is a fictional character created by Chuck Lorre who stated in 2010 that Sheldon chooses to abstain from relationships. However, by removing primary attraction from the character he draws a more asexual figure than a celibate one.

To clarify and simplify, sexual attraction is broken down to these basic forms:-

Primary Attraction: fancying a hot stranger.

Secondary Attraction: fancying someone you know well.

Primary Desire: the desire to have sex for your own pleasure.

Secondary Desire: the desire to have sex to give pleasure to others.

Asexual neutrals experience one form; secondary desire alone (this is the example Ki is giving).

Demisexuals experience three forms; secondary attraction, primary desire and secondary desire (my example).

All other sexual orientations experience all four forms.

His phobias, his touch issues, his pride (he believes his dismissal of sex makes him superior) all add to his reluctance, but they would not remove primary attraction (there's no outside touch involved with masturbating over catwoman after all).

I think if you are going to address this issue by stating Sheldon is one thing or the other (and declaring someone else's opinion wrong in doing so) then it's important to actually be well informed. Anyone interested in being well informed about asexuality can visit the AVEN website for more information (and I include link again, along with the Wiki page that is more concise).

http://www.asexuality.org

http://m.wikihow.com/Understand-Asexual-People

So, quick recap;

Asexual people DO have sexual urges (they have fully functioning gentials, maybe even aesthetically pleasing ones) but they are not attracted to other people.

Demisexuals experience sexual attraction to a person they have a close bond to.

I am putting like and posting my opinion. 

 

Look above....

 

I really think Sheldon is attracted to only Amy.  Fits perfectly with what they have in the show. (He has had numerous opportunities to be attracted to another woman, including Martha, Ramona, Penny, Raj's date, and never pursued.  And then there was Amy...)

 

So, instead of rehashing... Ditto...

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OK...

I am going to start responding to all of the arguments on this thread.  I will start with page 1.

RULES...

I will respond with the number of the page and the name of the poster...any response from you... please preference with the page # and the person I am responding to.

Do not "quote" Unless you feel Strongly about it.  (you feel i missed something)  Back it up.

We all have access to all the pages...We can go back and re-read.

Let us keep it civil and in the realm of the argument.

No personal slurs or slights... I am thinking we are all adults here.

I will post my first by the end of day.

Page 1.

ki

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Is there really a need to go back and rehash the points of a discussion that have already been discussed.

 

You have a point of view or perspective and others have laid out their responses to your assertions.

 

Isn't that the end of the story?

 

I think your initial question has been answered several times.  Whether or not one sees the characters as Asexual, Demi-sexual, etc., is essentially beside the point.

The point is that the writers have never labeled him with any particular sexual label but have indeed made his relationship with Amy to be headed for some level of sexual involvement.

If that means that he falls into the "demi-sexual" category or whatever, so be it.  But since they have chosen not to label him and have chosen to make his relationship with Amy sexual, then it seems clear to me that they don't want him to be an asexual person, or certainly don't want to label him as such.

 

I don't think they're concerned with the finer points of all the variations of what an asexual person can or cannot be.  Just as they're not interested in labeling him as Autistic, even if some may recognize certain elements in his behavior and thinking.

 

In the end, I don't think the writers have betrayed any one group as they have evolved his character because they never set out to have him represent any one group when they conceived the character.

 

Why can't that be the end of the question?

Edited by phantagrae
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OK...

I am going to start responding to all of the arguments on this thread.  I will start with page 1.

RULES...

...

Page 1.

ki

We already have here on the forum. Anyone can post their arguments anyway, and anytime they want, subject to the linked rules. I'm sorry you don't get to set additional rules.

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