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807 The Misinterpretation Agitation (October 30)


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Well there is nothing wrong with problems getting mentioned or acknowledged. It has been common enough in sitcoms in the past.

I get that but everyone's personal story doesn't always relate to what's happening on the show. This related to Bernadette. Amy was staring at her large haldrons and then she wrote to the magazine. IMO kind of hard not to think that she was just jealous. Obviously what Bernadette said to Amy was wrong but I can kind of see why she said what she said.

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I get that but everyone's personal story doesn't always relate to what's happening on the show. This related to Bernadette. Amy was staring at her large haldrons and then she wrote to the magazine. IMO kind of hard not to think that she was just jealous. Obviously what Bernadette said to Amy was wrong but I can kind of see why she said what she said.

 

Bernadette: "That was for me to decide, not you."

Amy: "I disagree. As a female scientist, I think what you do affects all of us."

 

You're right, clearly jealousy was the issue here; not the exploitation of female scientists.

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Firstly, I really enjoyed this episode. I'm loving the direction the writers are taking this season in bringing back the geek culture in a big way. The boys are really getting lots of time together without the girls and having the fun they had in the early seasons. For me, it's like the inference is that Amy isn't as clingy to Sheldon anymore and their comfort level with the relationship is letting him be geek Sheldon again,which makes him happy, and so they are happy. Leonard is so at peace with Penny he doesn't have to worry that his love of everything geek is going to unsettle the Lenny - the way he dismissed her during Donkey Kong was telling.

It was another call back episode, which I'm also loving. The girls coming in at the end and getting ignored was reminiscent of the early episode when Penny and her girlfriends enter 4A and her joke of coming to have sex with them was missed. BBT's Mississippi signal brings back Leonard's 5 Mississippi hug perception ( which ended up being correct) of Penny's affection for him in season 2 finale - apparently this a common trait in socially awkward geeks! Loved the reaction of the guys to the Doctors comment about his misguided belief that his collection of geek culture would impress the girls - a summary of the guys 7 years in this show.

Like kerrycec03's husband I was like a little boy in a toy shop spotting all the stuff in the doctor's basement-Robbie the robot, Mr Freeze, Magneto's friggin helmet! And watching the guys gathered around Leonard reliving his Donkey Kong halcyon days was a trip down memory lane.

Lenny continued down their "how good are we at dealing with issues as a couple" path as yet another crisis was averted with the iconic private talk in the hall. Also loved Leonard's dealing with The Doctor over Penny. Having said that, had plenty of laughs over Sheldons history of picking on Leonard's unlikely relationship with his girl too. And I think it's clear Leonard gets his IOU payback from Penny at the prom next week[emoji6]

As for the Bernadette controversy, I have a different take on the plot outside the "extensively discussed so nothing new to add arguments over women in science, who needs to apologise over who said/did what" thread debate. ( I always miss out on the good fights while sleeping in Australia). It has been mentioned that it was OOC for Bernadette. It has also been clear that some of us are not liking the mean streak of Bernadette coming through this season. I get the feeling, after years of being in the background as both individual character and part of Howardette, that season 8 is building towards being a big Howard and Bernadette season ( or as much as it can be amongst the Shamy/Lenny powerhouses).

On the personal level, the writers seem to be focussing specifically on her looks. We've had two episodes, almost back to back ( Vegas) , focussing on her sexual appeal, specifically her "rack/hadron colliders". Going back to season 4, when Howard doubted her hotness compared to the delicious caramel that is Halle Berry and his bath/bed fantasies with that actress whose name escapes me, plus the Love Car reference to not being hot enough for Glenn, it's almost like the writers are creating an internal battle within Bernie's mind about her physical appeal. You know, I'm just as hot as Penny. Why does she get all the attention? She does make a lot of snide digs about Penny so I can see the writers playing up some new hidden resentment there. IMHO, feel free to disagree.

On the Howardette front, season 8 seems to be building quite a bit of tension. Bernie really belittled him on the money issue and to a lesser degree the sporting prowess, the writers are playing up his still strong connection with mum, with the Stuart jealousy and this episode's barbs from Raj and their prom photo doesn't have the same Loving vibe that Lenny/Shamy has. Their conversation in the latest taping report seems peppered with snark too.

Maybe this is all leading up to a bit of trouble for the former most stable relationship in the show. I'm not suggesting long term distress - I don't think the writers are interested in separation or worse - but maybe some male interest at work or elsewhere in the pocket hottie with the big breasts will create a meaty story arc where Howardette address their relationship's hidden issues and Howard needs to worry less about his mums relationship with Stuart and more about his relationship with woman he replaced her with.

OR......the writers just want to make jokes about Bernie's big breasts and continue to belittle Amy's lack of sexuality in comparison to the two hot blondes she has noticed both sober and drunk and it all disappears amongst the Lenny/Shamy show it is. I don't know.

Edited by Itwasdestined

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Firstly, I really enjoyed this episode. I'm loving the direction the writers are taking this season in bringing back the geek culture in a big way. The boys are really getting lots of time together without the girls and having the fun they had in the early seasons. [snip]

 

This much is true and made the episode fun for me.

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Well tonight's episode is proof that this show appeals to lots of different segments..

I enjoyed the episode and found some funny lines. I have to admit I was more patiently awaiting next week's promo so I was distracted...

I rewatched the episode with my husband later in the evening and witnessed why the show appeals to so many. He was in a state of pure aww when the guys went into the basement. He was sitting there naming off all the games, movies, etc. It reminded me big time of the something for everyone factor.

Me personally I enjoy the relationship stuff but for my husband he was more in love with last nights "stuff".

Overall I thought it was a cute episode

 

Yeah, the argument between Amy and Bernadette seems to be overshadowing the Billy Bob Thorton visit and the basement full of really cool stuff - those are the two things I am going to remember about this episode :)

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I think they didn't resolve it intentionally. According this thread, you can see how people would react if they said Bernie was right, or Amy was right. One side would be mad and writers would have to face it. But at least some explanation would be nice you're right. I agree with you on Amy, sometimes it seems like they still are not sure, what to do with her character, I saw more of Mayim than Amy in this plot to be honest. And yes, this touching his back was kind of weird for me too. But I saw it second time and felt better about the episode. It has it's moments. Sheldon saying "these two tried to score with Penny too and they're are having dinner with us" was gold :icon_cheesygrin:

Inst Halloween supposed to be creepy? I think they did a good job with the creepiness. Including the inappropriate touching, chest gazing and being locked in a cellar.  I keep revising my opinion upwards on this episode as comedy.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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Was I the only one who felt that Amy had a point? She did have the right to an opinion about this article because like she said, she was a female scientist too and what Bernie does affects her. Mayim also seemed very genuine in her delivery with her reasons on the principle of the thing. While Amy doesn't have a say in what Bernie does specifically with her body and choices, she had every right to send that notice to the article writers, and they seemed to see her point too since it was cancelled. I don't think Amy would have made as a big deal if it wasn't Bernie specifically, so she can possibly be faulted in that area, but I don't think she was in the wrong overall. It's true that they might not have done that with the guy scientists and I thought Bernie's comeback to that was pretty lame (even if it was just for laughs). 

Overall, I didn't have a problem with their conflict and thought it was a good one, which is why I was disappointed to not have more resolution to that. I forget who it is, but someone mentioned that right after it she goes to Billy Bob who expresses interest in her which I think they were trying to make a sort of "resolution" of how Amy can be wanted (we see Amy wanted by that geologist too after all heehee!), but I think that could have been more apparent as a "solution".

 

Anyone else here who was on Amy's side for this?

 

Of course I agree with you Kichi, but not because I'm an Amy fan, but because what she was saying is totally true. If Amy had been the one excited about the idea and Bernie the one opposed to, I would be on Bernie's side. Also because her issue was merely a principles one, not something she did out of bitterness.

 

Being totally unspoiled for this episode, and knowing the kind of lame 'jokes' the show usually comes up with for situations like this one, I was at the edge of my seat, biting my nails, waiting for the slightest confirmation that, effectively, Amy was acting or speaking out of jealousy, but, thankfully, there was not a single hint of that.

 

Some can say that her reaction would have been a totally different one if she had been invited as well, but there's absolutely no way to prove that point. Her reaction was negative from the beggining (and I agree that Mayim's delivery was totally unequivocal, obviously because it's an issue that is close to her heart as well) not because she was against a woman freely expressing her sexuality, but because the intended concept of "hot female scientists" was something that rubbed her the wrong way in her personal beliefs, and because she find it offensive as a professional as well, not just because she was angry for not having been invited too.

 

Also, the idea that she acted against Bernie behind her back by writing that letter, I don't think that's true.

 

It's not like she said "good for you girl!, go for it!" to her face just to stab her in the back afterwards, she was honest and outspoken about her disagreement since the beginning, and told her she didn't like the idea at all and exposed her reasons, then, by writing the letter to the magazine, she was only doing the same thing, merely expressing her opinion (the same she had been clear about with the girls before). I don't think she believed her letter would cause the mag to change the plan. In fact, she didn't know the photoshoot had been cancelled, it was only after Bernie told her so, that she thought that just maybe her letter could have had something to do with the situation, but I don't think any of them (actually, neither any of us) knew for sure what caused the call-off of the photoshoot.

 

Then, in the other hand what Bernardette did, was pretty low and hurtful, I know she was frustrated, but she reacted with a personal attack that was totally uncalled for, attacking her friend's supposed lack of attractiveness and alluding the intimacy issues between her and her boyfriend. That's something you shouldn't do to anyone, let alone to one of your best friends.

 

And please, it's not like the oversexualization of women in all kinds of media, specially as opposed to the way men are portrayed in that same media is a myth or something. It's a real issue that is nocive and offensive in so many levels. I'm kind of happy the show addressed it, even when at the end they just kind of brushed it off and didn't give a clear resolution, luckily they didn't just rudely blow it off for the sake of a joke either.

 

I would be the one writing angry mail to the show if their 'resolution' to the conflict would have been both ot them making amends and happily posing in a 'sexy' way together and Amy forgetting her principles after receiving an invitation to pose as well.

 

I'm tremendously glad they didn't go that way. Kudos for them for that.

Edited by sarah7

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1) I loved Billy Bob Thornton in this. He wasn't THAT creepy to me; he had a definite earnestness and softness that suggested he was a lonely guy, not some creep. I thought he handled his character and line delivery beautifully, and I really hope he'll come back somehow. He was a delight to watch.

2) I don't know if the Topic of the Bernie/Amy fight was so much the issue by the end then a rather realistic look at these two women fighting over it. But in the end, it went from a theological debate to down and dirty personal by Bernie's low blow of an insult to Amy. Which she was horrified by and tried to apologize for; and I think it was clear that Amy would forgive her and they would move on, but it shifted away from the actual topic about sexuality, the objectification of women, business and science into the need to repair the personal relationship. And I think that the dig on Amy's looks was the whole point in the long run. Notice that once they got THAT in the actual issue sort of vanished without much resolution.

3) The new appreciation of Bernie's looks, I think, come from the writers maybe realizing they have been fairly ridiculous about them. Howard feeling Bernie was not attractive enough to commit to dating, or Amy's remark about her being "cute in the right light" are just absurd if you actually LOOK at the woman. Maybe it was their intent for Bernie to be that level of attractiveness in their original vision for the character, but Melissa is just too hot and adorable for those lines to make sense. I feel that the plot about this article, Amy's cracks about her knockers (because what other character will point it out?) are attempts by the writers to make up for and revise previous lines they have written.

I think they are also using it for other reasons too: to bring Amy and Bernie closer and balance out Amy just loving her bestie, Penny, to showing how all 3 girls have developed genuine 1-on-1 friendships as well as their strange little trio. Perhaps they are hinting at some jealousy on Amy's part but I doubt it (she has always been super confident about her looks. That dang pelvis of hers) but I think Amy's interest in Penny and Bernie has to do with pure curiosity. I think, part of Amy NOTICING some of these things about females in general as she goes through her own awkward delayed adolescence. Amy's Mom seems to have taught her daughter nothing about being a woman - hymen intact and no friends, excellent - and Amy had no friends who would compare notes, mentor, gossip, exchange stories or talk about these things with her the way most "normal" girls do. I see a lot of Amy's behavior meant to shadow that of adolescent girls with their "girl crushes," curiosity about their friends bodies and female attributes and how ones measures up, comments they don't even realize are blazingly immature or inappropriate, curiosity in how other girls handle themselves and their sexuality and trying to glean a clue from that on how to handle their own; etc. A lot of that with Amy rings true; I knew girls like that, some well into their 20's even, who just didn't KNOW jackshit, and while it's sometimes as painful and ugly for me to watch with less socially clued in girls as it's been since I was 13, it's not unrealistic at all. Hence that gazing at Bernie's huge hadron colliders or asking Penny out of exasperation: "how do you get them to stay up like that? Tape?" Because no female in their life even bothered to take them shopping for a training bra, much less that there are OPTIONS. (Like apparently it took Penny to include Amy in what Victoria's Secret was all about. Bras can hook in the front! Holy Underwire, Batgirl!) it drives me nuts sometimes, but there are a lot of girls like this out there; either they had no interest in feminine wiles at the time they were teens, or they had no one there to help them even if they were. Everything about Amy screams of being one of these cases, amplified to the sitcom degree for the humor.

On top of that, Bernie's cutting line about Amy's lack of sexual prowess or sexual attractiveness to anyone is part and parcel, I think, of a way the writers highlight the tension in the Shamy relationship and try to get people to root for Amy. They have set up a certain "poor, unromanced, ugly duckling, sexually frustrated Amy" thing for a long time now, and I think it's deliberate and I think it's supposed to make the stakes of the Shamy relationship that much higher. I think it's supposed to be part of Amy's own awkward development and the way a girl geek's poor social etiquette differs from her other half, the boy geek, Sheldon. They are, absolutely, one of the more subtle and sustained examples of Geek Love I have ever seen. And it's not even all that subtle with Sheldon and Amy, it's just that usually Geek Love is amplified all that much worse into comic book cookie cutter characters that are merely the sum of all geek stereotypes and usually it never lasts long as a storyline, the love life of the token geek character isn't that important for their love interest to stick around. Except on TBBT, which is a lot of Geek Love across the board.

But back to the "poor Amy" thing and her perceived lack of a shred of sexual charisma. Half the time I don't even buy it; and usually I don't like it. I think you turn Bernie or Raj into total dickheads for a moment (and increase the audience's dislike of them) when you use them to make truly mean remarks about Amy's sexual appeal just to highlight the fact that Sheldon and Amy are not having sex yet, and oh, itsn't that just the nuttiest dilemma for this otherwise happy couple?

The issues about their lack of a sex life are already there without having to tweak the tempature up by brow beating her dowdy, dumpy, geeky thing as well. Or sacrificing Raj and Bernie's likeability - which is already challenged on other fronts too - for it. I hear people say "poor Amy" all the time. Yes, poor Amy. But does all the sympathy or condescending pity make her more likeable. Or do justice to the Girl Geek character? Does Amy need or deserve PITY, or does she need and deserve understanding and acceptance? And what about all the things which make her totally awesome, and not at all pitiable or spineless or Sheldon's doormat? Or make people want Sheldon to just bang her already because at this point it's a plot point dragged on past their patience, so just give her a sympathy screw? That's horrible for them both; they have something special which deserves better than that. I think the writers will give it eventually - perhaps at the end of this season - and in a really special way, but still. They flirt with a dangerous line sometimes and Bernie's callous remark to her was an example of that whole "hey, the Geek girl ain't getting any" stuff that sets up the "poor Amy" stuff that sets up the "Amy needs a win" stuff that leads to the leaps forward or back in the relationship.

4) A Wolowitz crisis is definitely coming. We're seeing blows almost every episode and they ain't even subtle. Howard and Bernie are heading towards trouble. I have no doubt they'll work through it in the long run, but these two are not making any progress on their issues. Equitable division of household tasks and finances are burning issues that are clearly not improving at all, and resentment is settling into the gap big time.

Edited by Lionne

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I was surprised to see how mild-mannered Dr. Lorvis was.  Billy Bob Thornton usually plays such outrageous characters that it was unexpected for him to be so milquetoast.  For me, the subtlety made his performance that much funnier.  I would call him more desperate/lonely and socially clueless than creepy.

 

My two cents on the Amy/Bernie fight is that Bernie was way over the line, but she apologized instantly and begged Amy not to leave, then went to Penny's to smooth things over.  It doesn't fix the hurtful comment, but IMO it counts for something.

 

I love the way the writers have twice lately (also with Focus Attenuation) show that, even though all four guys are in relationships and they've matured, they're still the same guys.  They're still delightfully child-like in their love of sci-fi and video games.  Even when they're 70-year old grandpas, they'll be buddies hanging out playing video games, watching sci-fi movies, and arguing over comic books.

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While I haven't been online here for quite some time, I never stopped watching the show. Had some doubts last season it was worth to keep watching...

However stuck with it and finally really liked this episode ( previous episodes were ok ish ) to much emphasis on the girly stuff lately ( did love the comic book discussion girls had in another season though ) The girly stuff takes away from what the show initially was all about. If too much it becomes just another average tv show

The girls discussion I could see from both sides, but in the end have to side with Amy. Her reasoning was one that was most in the thoughts of what it should be like.

It took me some Mississipi's to register it was actually Billy Bob Thornton playing the doc. He fit very well in the settings of the show and was pleasantly surprised with his comedy timing!

Also the story was a great one, more in the line of the guys life :-) hope we get to see him again sometime.

Just for that I felt the need to read up a bit and post my thoughts :-)

Edited by Jacks

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I sort of wonder if they are turning Bernadette into the sexual hottie of the show.  It the Las Vegas episode she was doing the things and acting more like we are use to seeing Penny act, not Bernadette.  Now in this episode she is being used as a sexual object for a magazine article.  Bernadette has come a long way from being the mousy little blonde that went on a blind date with Howard. 

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I sort of wonder if they are turning Bernadette into the sexual hottie of the show.  It the Las Vegas episode she was doing the things and acting more like we are use to seeing Penny act, not Bernadette.  Now in this episode she is being used as a sexual object for a magazine article.  Bernadette has come a long way from being the mousy little blonde that went on a blind date with Howard. 

 

No, I don't think so.

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I sort of wonder if they are turning Bernadette into the sexual hottie of the show. It the Las Vegas episode she was doing the things and acting more like we are use to seeing Penny act, not Bernadette. Now in this episode she is being used as a sexual object for a magazine article. Bernadette has come a long way from being the mousy little blonde that went on a blind date with Howard.

Possibly now that they have toned down Penny's sexuality (aka wardrobe). But I also know first hand that sometimes the girls in the longest relationships/marriages are the first to really let go and have a good time when in those social settings.

I think the Amy/Bernadette situation was a set-up for prom. Plus ironically after being insulted by Bernadette the next scene shows BBT hitting on Amy (granted she didn't do much of anything). I think while it was wrong of Amy to butt in she really wasn't jealous just protective of women in science and how they are viewed.

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Overall, I thought it was a pretty good episode, one of the best of the year so far.  I thought Billy Bob Thorton's character was pretty funny.  I have watched the episode a few times now and it gets funnier each time.  All of the regular cast were good, though I thought the story line with the guys was the best, especially Sheldon.  Jim Parsons has really been outstanding in the last few episodes. I did care for the Bernedtte/Amy storyline all that much, it just was not that funny.  The part with Amy and Thorton walking up the stairs and his starting to count the 1 , 2Mississippi when she touches him was great.

Overall, I still liked Sheldon the best tonight.

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I really enjoyed this episode, I think BBT did a fantastic job as the nerd doctor.  BBT was acting a part in the show, and he nailed it, you can't really compare him to Bob Newhart, because they wrote the episode around  Bob, BBT, on the other hand, played a part in the episode, not written around him since it was a nerdy doctor character that could have been played by someone else.  However in my opinion BBT shined, as the great actor he is,  playing the character perfectly.  I laughed a lot during this episode and the people that watched it with me laughed too.  The only thing I didn't like was the second story about Bernadette being in the magazine, it got too serious in the end, not funny, if I wanted to watch that kind of stuff in a show, I would turn to HBO.

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Well tonight's episode is proof that this show appeals to lots of different segments..

I enjoyed the episode and found some funny lines. I have to admit I was more patiently awaiting next week's promo so I was distracted...

I rewatched the episode with my husband later in the evening and witnessed why the show appeals to so many. He was in a state of pure aww when the guys went into the basement. He was sitting there naming off all the games, movies, etc. It reminded me big time of the something for everyone factor.

Me personally I enjoy the relationship stuff but for my husband he was more in love with last nights "stuff".

Overall I thought it was a cute episode

 

Same with one of my friends. I like this episode but not too much, it was okay to me. And one of my friend said me it was one of the best for him. I wonder how my friends would react on the next episode.

Edited by CentralPerk

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The only thing I didn't like was the second story about Bernadette being in the magazine, it got too serious in the end, not funny, if I wanted to watch that kind of stuff in a show, I would turn to HBO.

Or Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.

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I am a Shamy and a Lenny. 

 

I am not taking Amy's side in this at all.  It's fine that she feels that way that women scientists shouldn't do sexy photo shoots.  I didn't think it was fair to take that choice away from Bernadette who initially wanted to do the shoot.  

 

In this instance I felt both girls went too far...Amy for her part in getting the shoot cancelled.  Bernie for going off the way she did on Amy. 

 

Overall, I enjoyed the story and even as a Lenny found the Penny/sales storyline believable.  I thought it was handled well overall.   

 

I thought it was good episode.  Overall, enjoyable. 

Edited by Denise07

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I am not taking Amy's side in this at all.  It's fine that she feels that way, that women scientist shouldn't get a sexy photo shoot.  I didn't think it was fair to take that choice away from Bernadette who initially wanted to do the shoot.  

 

 

Except Amy didn't take anything away from Bernadette, the magazine did.

 

Amy just told them why she thinks it's a bad idea, and obviously they agreed with her (and most likely several other ppl as well).

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Except Amy didn't take anything away from Bernadette, the magazine did.

The magazine did, yes, because of Amy.

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