Episodes 807 The Misinterpretation Agitation (October 30)

[phantagrae]

I just want to take Bernadette's side for a moment. What she said to Amy when she learned of Amy's letter to the magazine was almost unforgivable. The thing in her favor was that she immediately realized she crossed the line. I think on some level she thought that Amy was right, but she was distracted by the possible glamour that such attention might provide.

I'd like to think if she went along with the offer at some point she would change her mind. We have been shown in the past that Bernadette can at times be a little shy about her appearance (her slight embarrassment at Amy's remark in Vegas comes to mind). However we have seen her dress a little provocatively on 2 occasions---

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think at the end of it she may have come to agree with and understand Amy's point.

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Oh, I agree.  I would like to think that if Bernie had gone ahead and showed up for the shoot, that she would have become uncomfortable with whatever they were asking her to do.  (Wet t-shirt over a Porsche?)

 

I think that Bernie knows she's got a hot little body, but I also think that she doesn't go around flaunting it to strangers.  I think that she doesn't mind enticing Howard and likes that Howard admires her body, but she also seems to be fairly modest.  She doesn't mind being admired, to a degree, but it's not like she's trying to pick up men.

[3ku11]

YOU think she did something wrong.

 

The point of this discussion is that some people think she did the right thing, regardless of Sheldon.  And even if someone things that Amy and Sheldon are usually right (and that's certainly a debatable point), that doesn't mean that Amy was wrong in this situation.

 

And nobody is saying that Sheldon and/or Amy shouldn't be held accountable for their behavior--they often are.  But in this case, the point is that many people believe that Amy acted correctly--and that seems to be the point the writers were asserting, as well.

 

She didn't sabotage Bernie's magazine shoot--she simply complained to the magazine once she heard what they were planning to do.  I think she would have done the same thing if Bernie had mentioned the article in passing as was not actually involved.  And Bernie should have objected, herself, to being objectified as "sexy" when she's much more than the size of her boobs.

 

I don't think Amy was being a bad friend.  Though she didn't tell Bernie, until after the fact, that she had written to the magazine, Amy was certainly free to tell the magazine what she thought of the idea , which is all she did.  Does that mean that Amy ruined the happiness of the other 49 women who were going to flaunt their bodies over their scientific values?

I think she did them all a favor.  And again, the issue would be the same no matter who objected to Bernie doing such a spread.

 

I think Bernie was the bad friend for making what was not personal and making it personal.

 

Amy didn't write to the magazine out of personal malice or jealousy or any other personal issue, but simply because of the principle involved.  Amy was talking about the consequences of women in science degrading their accomplishments by giving in to sexist objectifying, how any one female scientist's image affects them all.

 

Bernie is the one who chose to lash out and make it personal, effectively calling Amy unattractive and jealous, rather than admitting that Amy was right.

 

No one has said, as far as I can remember, that Amy's happiness is more important than anyone else's and I don't know what you are trying to imply about Amy being "just a supporting" character.  What does that have to do with Amy's stance on professionalism?

 

The writers wrote this scenario and had her point out how Bernie's actions in a situation like this reflect on all women in science.  Amy as a character can only say what the writers give her to say, and they had her point out an important truth.

 

And Bernie's point was the ambivalent position that many women fall into.  Yes, one should be able to flaunt one's sexuality if one chooses to, but one cannot ignore what consequences may come of it.

 

And YOU think she diddn't, that is your argument, but just like my argument it is not fact but opinion. You might have some points. But once again you are justifying Amy's behaviour. You have pointed out all the reasons why Bernadette was wrong but not Amy. Saying Amy and Sheldon often are, is not making them accountable. Its just justification. You didd'nt once say "Oh Amy was wrong in this instance". All this defending. If Penny told Amy you suck lol, I would say Penny was wrong. It is as simple as that. 

Edited November 6, 2014 by 3ku11

[Nogravitasatall]

Is it possible to construe this as an argument between science and commerce? Bernie already taken a less than perfect position by making her deal with big pharma. She is all about monetarising science. Is she not just further embracing the concept. Also, Amy took a general principle for that she sees should be applied to a collective and then actively applied that general principle to interfere a real person's life without permission. That kind of makes her a zealot. It's an interesting problem.

[phantagrae]

Is it possible to construe this as an argument between science and commerce? Bernie already taken a less than perfect position by making her deal with big pharma. She is all about monetarising science. Is she not just further embracing the concept. Also, Amy took a general principle for that she sees should be applied to a collective and then actively applied that general principle to interfere a real person's life without permission. That kind of makes her a zealot. It's an interesting problem.

 

But I don't think she intended to interfere with Bernie's life, but simply to voice her opinion to the editors of the magazine.  If Amy had heard about the article from someone else and didn't know anyone involved in the photo shoot, but simply wrote to the magazine for the same reason--to voice her opinion on the issue--would she have been interfereing with a real person's life?

Just because she knew about it from Bernie and Bernie was involved doesn't mean that she should keep silent if she objects to something on principle.

 

So does anyone who takes a stand publically, like writing a letter to a magazine, become a zealot?  The magazine could just as easily ignored her stance and gone ahead with the photo shoot.  Would Amy still have been a zealot because she chose to speak up?

 

People object to things on principle all the time.  Are they all zealots?  Amy didn't go down to the photo shoot and drag Bernie out, or walk into the studio with a placard or stand outside the magazine's headquarters and march in protest.  All she did was write a letter.

 

The magazine is the one who cancelled the article, not Amy.  And if they did so because Amy (and probably others) spoke up, well, they obviously took her points into consideration and thought better of their intentions.  I don't think they were afraid of Amy doing anything drastic or felt forced to cancel.

 

Amy didn't interfere with Bernie's life.  She spoke up for something she believed in.  Again, if the magazine, and Bernie, had gone through with it, Amy's action and her stance on the issue would have been the same.

[ATM]

Amy did whatever she did with Faisel to get her funding. Let us say he said they were engaged without Amy even making any hints, but still she did not correct him so that she could get her funding. So , as a female scientist what she does affects all the other female scientists. Her words exactly.

And of course for most of you it is a throwaway line , as it does not support your argument.

 

And the show never said Bernie was right or Amy was right exactly,

 

Bernie clearly said that up until her vicious attack ,Amy was the one the in the wrong.

 

So there is no evidence in saying that writers intended Amy to be right.

Edited November 6, 2014 by ATM

[Tonstar17]

And YOU think she diddn't, that is your argument, but just like my argument it is not fact but opinion. You might have some points. But once again you are justifying Amy's behaviour. You have pointed out all the reasons why Bernadette was wrong but not Amy. Saying Amy and Sheldon often are, is not making them accountable. Its just justification. You didd'nt once say "Oh Amy was wrong in this instance". All this defending. If Penny told Amy you suck lol, I would say Penny was wrong. It is as simple as that.

@3ku11. Leave it. Beer goggles.

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[Nogravitasatall]

Yes, and Amy could have considered the localised impact of her actions, that she really intended to have broader effect. It's an example of the actualisation of "think globally, act locally" . But they are both still talking so its over.

Edit. Except here, it's not. It is an interesting problem. Cunning writers.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Nogravitasatall

[djsurrey]

Uh, people are still talking about that today? It is really okay for people to disagree.

 

Looking forward to the new episode to change the conversation.

there were no Prom's where I grew up. The closest was a graduation dinner and I did not go (I had a better activity to go to out of town that weekend). I never liked that sort of thing at high school anyway. Fine for other people but most of my good friends were elsewhere.

Edited November 7, 2014 by djsurrey

[Eline Sena]

Does anyone know the name of the song that plays while Amy and Bernadette talk at the bar(6:33-8:20)? Pleasee :D

[Stewie99]

The Big Bang Theory Season 8 Episode 7- The Misinterpretation Agitation- Review
 
Having Billy Bob Thornton as a guest star ought to have been enough to make this episode of TBBT a 10/10 on it's own, but unfortunately, the episode was nothing more than average.
 
The Sheldon plot took centre stage as usual, although you could argue that Sheldon was demoted to a supporting role here, as the real spotlight is on the Lenny relationship. I'm not sure what the writers wanted us to think when watching this storyline, but I found myself hating Penny throughout for being so shallow and being unfaithful to her boyfriend. The guys in the basement was fun to watch for a time, but this became tired towards the end. The guys' obvious excitement at 'geeky' things has been done before, but the actors did a good job of showing the four as so fascinated by movie memorabilia nonetheless. Kunal Nayyer and Jim Parsons particularly stood out in this episode as having played their characters' reactions well.
 
The Bernadette and Amy sub-plot did at first just seem like a way of crowbarring them in to the episode, but ended up having some good character beats and an important story to it's core. Bernadette was massively out of line for what she said to Amy but unfortunately we never got to see her apologise properly. Not as funny a storyline but still interesting to watch.
 
Best Line:  Sheldon: 'Leonard, I was wrong. Heaven does exist. And it's in the basement of a urologist's house in Sherman Oaks.'

 

Performance of the Week: Jim Parsons takes the award this week. Again, a very convincing portrayal of a Sheldon who seems slightly more caring and considerate towards others this season.

 

Score: 6/10.

[gsxdoug]

The Big Bang Theory Season 8 Episode 7- The Misinterpretation Agitation- Review

 

Having Billy Bob Thornton as a guest star ought to have been enough to make this episode of TBBT a 10/10 on it's own, but unfortunately, the episode was nothing more than average.

 

The Sheldon plot took centre stage as usual, although you could argue that Sheldon was demoted to a supporting role here, as the real spotlight is on the Lenny relationship. I'm not sure what the writers wanted us to think when watching this storyline, but I found myself hating Penny throughout for being so shallow and being unfaithful to her boyfriend. The guys in the basement was fun to watch for a time, but this became tired towards the end. The guys' obvious excitement at 'geeky' things has been done before, but the actors did a good job of showing the four as so fascinated by movie memorabilia nonetheless. Kunal Nayyer and Jim Parsons particularly stood out in this episode as having played their characters' reactions well.

 

The Bernadette and Amy sub-plot did at first just seem like a way of crowbarring them in to the episode, but ended up having some good character beats and an important story to it's core. Bernadette was massively out of line for what she said to Amy but unfortunately we never got to see her apologise properly. Not as funny a storyline but still interesting to watch.

 

Best Line:  Sheldon: 'Leonard, I was wrong. Heaven does exist. And it's in the basement of a urologist's house in Sherman Oaks.'

 

Performance of the Week: Jim Parsons takes the award this week. Again, a very convincing portrayal of a Sheldon who seems slightly more caring and considerate towards others this season.

 

Score: 6/10.

Just curious, in what way was she being unfaithful?

[JohnPhD]

I thought this was a disappointing episode on the whole, altho I laughed out loud several times. Dr Lorvis showing up with flowers for Penny promised amusement, but was closed down by Leonard before it could develop. For the first time in a long time Sheldon was one up on Leonard; I thought his urological simile for how Leonard won Penny was the best thing in this episode. Leonard seemed to have regressed - the way he kept playing some childish game after the women came to the rescue suggested he's not grown-up enough to marry, whereas in previous episodes he was.

Dr Lorvis was too crudely done. and when his mother called from upstairs it would have been enough for Raj to look at Howard, without "captioning the obvious".

As for Bernadette and Amy, the idea of the magazine article was so preposterous that you can't discuss the pros and cons sensibly; but I was pleased that Bernadette finally lashed out at Amy; the way Penny and Bernadette put up with her stretches credulity, even for a sitcom. and I hardly think women scientists need a caricature of a woman like Amy as spokewoman for their dignity.

[gsxdoug]

I thought this was a disappointing episode on the whole, altho I laughed out loud several times. Dr Lorvis showing up with flowers for Penny promised amusement, but was closed down by Leonard before it could develop. For the first time in a long time Sheldon was one up on Leonard; I thought his urological simile for how Leonard won Penny was the best thing in this episode. Leonard seemed to have regressed - the way he kept playing some childish game after the women came to the rescue suggested he's not grown-up enough to marry, whereas in previous episodes he was.

Dr Lorvis was too crudely done. and when his mother called from upstairs it would have been enough for Raj to look at Howard, without "captioning the obvious".

As for Bernadette and Amy, the idea of the magazine article was so preposterous that you can't discuss the pros and cons sensibly; but I was pleased that Bernadette finally lashed out at Amy; the way Penny and Bernadette put up with her stretches credulity, even for a sitcom. and I hardly think women scientists need a caricature of a woman like Amy as spokewoman for their dignity.

Actually, all of them wanted to stay so why pick on Leonard? They were having fun, nothing wrong with that. Oh, and the comments about Amy; I hope you're wearing fireproof pants.

[Stewie99]

Just curious, in what way was she being unfaithful?

By flirting with other men to the point where they believe that she is single and interested in them, and also by hiding her engagement ring from these men, which could suggest that she is ashamed of being engaged to Leonard. The worst thing was that she then believed that she wasn't in the wrong and tried to make Leonard 'get rid' of Dr Lorvis. I know she's always been shown as the 'dumb' character on the show, but I just thought they over did it on this episode. Penny's emotional unintelligence was pretty unbelievable.

[Martin Pollard]

By flirting with other men to the point where they believe that she is single and interested in them, and also by hiding her engagement ring from these men, which could suggest that she is ashamed of being engaged to Leonard.

 

Right, just like Kaley is "being unfaithful" to Ryan by kissing Johnny and not wearing her wedding ring on-screen.

 

Penny is a salesperson, and like an actress, she's playing a part in order to achieve a desired result. She explained that to Leonard (and, by extension, to the audience), and hasn't once swayed from her love and loyalty to him. Thinking that acting out a part somehow constitutes being "unfaithful" is a line of thought that is misguided, to say the least.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Martin Pollard

[3ku11]

Lol no way was Penny being unfathful or dumb. The guy hits on any girl whos nice, he even hit on Amy. I agree she was playing a part, shes an actress trying to get a desired result. The guy was portrayed as thinking any girl whos nice is interested, not a reflection on Penny at all. She was justified in thinking she did nothing wrong, because she technicaly diddnt. Thinking she did nothing wrong is not her being dumb, she was clearly embarrassed. Give the girl a break, I dont think the writers have ever portrayed her as "dumb". Just she hangs out with eggheads every day. People take their rings off all the time. My parents dont wear them, not an issue. Consider the context. Pennys not going to bars. Its a work thing. Its just one guy not a big deal. From the response I saw on FB comments suggested one of the best bbt eps in years. So im very surprised the response here.

[JohnPhD]

Sure, all the guys wanted to stay and play, but it only matters for Leonard. The way I see the structure of the show, Penny and Leonard are the grown-ups and all the others are infantile in some way and P&L have to deal with that. Actually I don't think Bernadette's infantile herself but gets dragged in by Howard, so in 806 she was giving him stars for housework.

But Leonard still has some childish baggage he needs to lose before he's ready, which maybe will be symbolized by his finally getting rid of those godawful hoody coats.

 

Ever since seeing 807 I've been trying to think of a well-known scientist whose "hotness" has been publicly discussed in real life. The only one of either gender I could think of was Professor Brian Cox. Maybe it's not known in America but it's become a running gag in the UK. Older female scientists (and other professionals) are quite often described as "stylish", but I don't see anything wrong with that. Meanwhile in BBT-world, the grossest sexual exploitation of a scientist was Caltech pimping Leonard out to Mrs Latham the Benefactor.

 

Dr Lorvis was such an outlier in personality that as of 807 we still don't know if Penny can sell to normal doctors. If she's a success it'll need another big effort for me to suspend disbelief.  All the successful tech sales people I've known had a streak of ruthlessness that Penny totally lacks. I knew 2 tech sales guys who were as nearly as nice as Penny as anyone is in real life. The both got fired.

 

I wonder what the Amiacs make of Amy's line in The Tenure Turbulence - "I should have got my breasts out when I had the chance".

[Martin Pollard]

Dr Lorvis was such an outlier in personality that as of 807 we still don't know if Penny can sell to normal doctors. If she's a success it'll need another big effort for me to suspend disbelief.

 

Well, Dan did say in "The Champagne Reflection" that Penny was currently their #3 salesperson. Now, it's possible that Zangen only has a few salespeople, their top two are wildly successful compared to Penny, or Dan was being overly enthusiastic, which would make her being #3 not all that big a deal, but taking Dan at face value does make it sound like she's being successful, and is a rising star in the company. *shrug*

[gsxdoug]

Right, just like Kaley is "being unfaithful" to Ryan by kissing Johnny and not wearing her wedding ring on-screen.

 

Penny is a salesperson, and like an actress, she's playing a part in order to achieve a desired result. She explained that to Leonard (and, by extension, to the audience), and hasn't once swayed from her love and loyalty to him. Thinking that acting out a part somehow constitutes being "unfaithful" is a line of thought that is misguided, to say the least.

Thank you, Martin.

[Stewie99]

Right, just like Kaley is "being unfaithful" to Ryan by kissing Johnny and not wearing her wedding ring on-screen.

Penny is a salesperson, and like an actress, she's playing a part in order to achieve a desired result. She explained that to Leonard (and, by extension, to the audience), and hasn't once swayed from her love and loyalty to him. Thinking that acting out a part somehow constitutes being "unfaithful" is a line of thought that is misguided, to say the least.

I don't think it's particularly fair, honest or decent to mislead a clearly vunerable customer into thinking that you are interested in them simply for the perpose of selling a pharmaceutical product to them. I think it shows what a shallow and sometimes unreasonable character Penny can be. Penny is not an actress anymore, and so she does not need to 'act out a part'. She just needs to sell a product. Clearly the reason why Penny is so successful at her job is because she uses dirty tricks to sell her products.

Lol no way was Penny being unfathful or dumb. The guy hits on any girl whos nice, he even hit on Amy. I agree she was playing a part, shes an actress trying to get a desired result. The guy was portrayed as thinking any girl whos nice is interested, not a reflection on Penny at all. She was justified in thinking she did nothing wrong, because she technicaly diddnt. Thinking she did nothing wrong is not her being dumb, she was clearly embarrassed. Give the girl a break, I dont think the writers have ever portrayed her as "dumb". Just she hangs out with eggheads every day. People take their rings off all the time. My parents dont wear them, not an issue. Consider the context. Pennys not going to bars. Its a work thing. Its just one guy not a big deal. From the response I saw on FB comments suggested one of the best bbt eps in years. So im very surprised the response here.

If Penny didn't do anything wrong, why was she 'clearly embarrassed'? Surely if she was completely innocent, she would have nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about?

You also claim that the writers have never portrayed Penny as 'dumb'. What about when Professor Proton did his show at Sheldon and Leonard's apartment, and Penny was fascinated by simple science experiments designed to entertain small children?

The old 'best TBBT in years' chestnut seems to be trotted out by somebody every other episode, if you ask me. It depends what you are looking for in an episode up to a point, but I didn't think that this episode really had anything for many fans. The humour was thin on the ground, there was very little Shamy interaction, and Penny acted like a jerk. The only reason I think people enjoyed this episode is because of Billy Bob Thornton.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Stewie99

[djsurrey]

 

[snip]

Meanwhile in BBT-world, the grossest sexual exploitation of a scientist was Caltech pimping Leonard out to Mrs Latham the Benefactor.

 

I agree with this. That episode (Benefactor.) is on my list of 4 or 5 worst episodes.

Edited December 5, 2014 by djsurrey

[Guest]

she uses dirty tricks to sell her products.

 

One question: Who doesn't?

[gsxdoug]

I don't think it's particularly fair, honest or decent to mislead a clearly vunerable customer into thinking that you are interested in them simply for the perpose of selling a pharmaceutical product to them. I think it shows what a shallow and sometimes unreasonable character Penny can be. Penny is not an actress anymore, and so she does not need to 'act out a part'. She just needs to sell a product. Clearly the reason why Penny is so successful at her job is because she uses dirty tricks to sell her products.

As far as I can tell, pretty much all sales people use "dirty tricks" to move product. You just need to have a good bullshit detector handy. "Extended warranty! How could I lose?!"*

 

* Homer J. Simpson.

[Stewie99]

Yes, you're quite right. But does that make it morally acceptable to deceive a vulnerable customer 'because other people do it all the time'?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Stewie99

[gsxdoug]

Morally acceptable or not, Penny wasn't being unfaithful to Leonard by any normal definition.