Leonard And Penny: Season 8 So Far

[Carlos]

I don't understand why they have written Lenny as they have. Save for episode 22 and a few sprinkled scenes through out the season it has , for lack of a better word sucked. It is even "stupider" from a business standpoint since at 1 million per episode we are talking about 48 million wasted.

[Tensor]

I don't understand why they have written Lenny as they have. Save for episode 22 and a few sprinkled scenes through out the season it has , for lack of a better word sucked. It is even "stupider" from a business standpoint since at 1 million per episode we are talking about 48 million wasted.

No, it wasn't wasted. Leonard and Penny were used, separately, in various other things this year. It was their time together(and the lack of it) that has me puzzled.

[meka3000]

Could be cause I don't give a shit about how the others are treated to get cheap laughs? Just like I'm sure there are those who don't care how Leonard and Penny are treated, and more power to them I say.

 

It just sounds self-righteous to say "my favorite character is being treated unfairly".  While ignoring how all the characters have had mud slung in their face.  I don't see that as unfair treatment compared to any other character.  It's an argument that is hard to take seriously IN CONTEXT.

 

While I love Leonard as a character, I don't want him being treated as a special snowflake compared to the rest of the characters on the show.  Why should he be?

 

To paraphrase Matt Stone & Trey Parker of South Park fame: "Once you as a comedy writer declare that a person or subject matter is too sacred to joke about, you've stopped writing comedy and have started writing politics."

I don't hate Leonard over this but I do think the writers could have come up with at least a couple other options that didn't make Leonard act so out oc

 

Options such as?

 

I don't see what they've given us as out of character?  ESPECIALLY since we don't know all the details, just some of them.

Edited May 11, 2015 by meka3000

[Nogravitasatall]

No, it wasn't wasted. Leonard and Penny were used, separately, in various other things this year. It was their time together(and the lack of it) that has me puzzled.

"Puzzled" is pronounced a bit like gutted, I'd say. Sucked the magic right out. Hope they can put it back in.

As an old fart myself, it's funny how this couple hit such a tender spot. Not often experienced.

[Tensor]

It

...snip out much shit I don't care about...

politics."

See, just like I said, someone would come along to tell me I was wrong to care about Leonard and Penny more than the other characters. And I'd point out, while I'm flattered you think I write for the show, I'm not a comedy writer, I'm a fan of the show. I don't have to like everything about it, nor do I have to like what anyone else does, nor do I have to see the show the same way as anyone else does.

But, please, since I'm not getting enough condescension in how you keep telling me how wrong I am to feel the way I do about the show, please tell me exactly how you think I should be watching and enjoying the show.

As an old fart myself, it's funny how this couple hit such a tender spot. Not often experienced.

Yeah, I'm an old cynical fart and don't understand how it hit me the way it did. I'm not gutted yet, I still hope for them get the magic back next year. But, be careful grav, someone will tell you how wrong you are to feel that way about it.

[Nogravitasatall]

Yeah, I'm an old cynical fart and don't understand how it hit me the way it did. I'm not gutted yet, I still hope for them get the magic back next year. But, be careful grav, someone will tell you how wrong you are to feel that way about it.

Oh, I'm often wrong. Hasn't stopped me yet. LOL. But I did like Earnie's suggestion somewhere about them being found together clad only in their wedding rings. That'd be magical. Id forgive a lot for that. Let's hear how wrong that is. Heheh.

[rachelshamyfan]

See, just like I said, someone would come along to tell me I was wrong to care about Leonard and Penny more than the other characters. And I'd point out, while I'm flattered you think I write for the show, I'm not a comedy writer, I'm a fan of the show. I don't have to like everything about it, nor do I have to like what anyone else does, nor do I have to see the show the same way as anyone else does.

But, please, since I'm not getting enough condescension in how you keep telling me how wrong I am to feel the way I do about the show, please tell me exactly how you think I should be watching and enjoying the show.

Yeah, I'm an old cynical fart and don't understand how it hit me the way it did. I'm not gutted yet, I still hope for them get the magic back next year. But, be careful grav, someone will tell you how wrong you are to feel that way about it.

Your not wrong tensor, I guess most of us like certain characters more than another

[meka3000]

See, just like I said, someone would come along to tell me I was wrong to care about Leonard and Penny more than the other characters. And I'd point out, while I'm flattered you think I write for the show, I'm not a comedy writer, I'm a fan of the show. I don't have to like everything about it, nor do I have to like what anyone else does, nor do I have to see the show the same way as anyone else does.

But, please, since I'm not getting enough condescension in how you keep telling me how wrong I am to feel the way I do about the show, please tell me exactly how you think I should be watching and enjoying the show.

 

If you want to declare Leonard's treatment by the writers as unfair and bad writing, while simultaneously ignoring that he doesn't get it any worse than any other character on the show, fine more power to you.  

 

It's just hard to take said persons opinion(s) seriously or think they are viewing with any form of objectivity when they DEMAND that "my favorite character deserves to be treated like a special snowflake compared to the rest of them."

 

It sort of reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Marge gets all self-righteous about Itchy and Scratchy being excessively violent and needs to be censored for children.  But when she tries to defend the statue of Michelangelo David as a wonderful piece of art to people who find the statues nudity as excessive and tasteless towards children, and that the statue should be censored because of that; the hypocrisy on Marge's standpoint of censoring Itchy and Scratchy as an artform towards children is laid bare. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by meka3000

[Nogravitasatall]

If you want to declare Leonard's treatment by the writers as unfair and bad writing, while simultaneously ignoring that he doesn't get it any worse than any other character on the show, fine more power to you.  

 

It's just hard to take said persons opinion(s) seriously or think they are viewing with any form of objectivity when they DEMAND that "my favorite character deserves to be treated like a special snowflake compared to the rest of them."

 

It sort of reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Marge gets all self-righteous about Itchy and Scratchy being excessively violent and needs to be censored for children.  But when she tries to defend the statue of Michelangelo David as a wonderful piece of art to people who find the statues nudity as excessive and tasteless towards children, and that the statue should be censored because of that; the hypocrisy on Marge's standpoint of censoring Itchy and Scratchy as an artform towards children is laid bare.

Not really the same. David was always a wonderful piece of art but static, subject only to the viewer's changing perspectives - L/P are more the other way. They have changed and the viewers are scratching their heads going, "this isn't the same thing anymore".

[Chrismo]

 

 

It's just hard to take said persons opinion(s) seriously or think they are viewing with any form of objectivity when they DEMAND that "my favorite character deserves to be treated like a special snowflake compared to the rest of them."

 

Are we talking about Leonard or Sheldon here?

[Tensor]

If you want to declare Leonard's treatment by the writers as unfair and bad writing, while simultaneously ignoring that he doesn't get it any worse than any other character on the show, fine more power to you.

 

It's just hard to take said persons opinion(s) seriously or think they are viewing with any form of objectivity when they DEMAND that "my favorite character deserves to be treated like a special snowflake compared to the rest of them."

Look, if you want to look at all the characters equally, or want to view the show objectively, fine. I hope you enjoy it. I'm not going to tell you how you should feel about it, or how you should watch it. Enjoy it the way you want to. I just can't seem to figure out why so many people need to tell me how to watch or enjoy the show.

 

It

snip...

bare.

As grav pointed out, David is a static piece, and even then, it makes different people feel differently about it. One person my think it beautifully defined. Others could care less about it. Neither one of those is correct, nor is either one wrong as each person is different. Leonard started out one way, and through the years they changed him. I was willing to buy that and went with it. The last two years, IMO, from the various events, they've reverted him back (and to a lesser extent Penny). I was willing to buy the changes, as they seemed a natural progression. Others weren't willing and now don't watch the show. The reversion back in an attempt for cheap laughs, doesn't amuse me, and it destroys, for me, the picture of Leonard and Penny the writers have built up over the years. I don't have to like it, and especially with the cheating, based on my life, I don't.

Let me expand on that cheating. I spent more than four out of the sixteen years I was in the Air Force, away from my wife, most of the time six months or more at a time. Alcohol was available where I was at (except for about eight months total I was in Saudi Arabia), I drank it but at no time did I even come close to doing what Leonard did. I had a girl try to kiss me, and it was like Howard's move to get away and she caught lip. At no time did I find out if she was a smoker. And a bit more perspective on this. These absences were in the 70s,80s, and early 90s. Before the internet, before generally available cell phones.

Leonard could have Skyped with Penny(he was streaming video for goodness sake), if nothing else, he could call her anytime or use VOIP, as the ship evidently had an internet connection. He or she could have sent pictures almost instantly. My wife and I were limited to two to three letters a week, and a 15 minute call a week (which ran us about $30 at the time (That would be about $85 in todays money), so you get an idea of how communication costs have come down I could call the same place for about $1.50, today). So, being away, with alcohol available is no where near either an excuse or mitigating factor. He chose to drink, he may have stopped the kiss, but his description doesn't sound like it was quick peck, but an extended duration, open mouth kiss. Will they get by this. I'm almost certain they will. The writers will work around it, but that doesn't mean I have to like the roadblock, or how the roadblock got there.

[meka3000]

Not really the same. David was always a wonderful piece of art but static, subject only to the viewer's changing perspectives - L/P are more the other way. They have changed and the viewers are scratching their heads going, "this isn't the same thing anymore".

 

You COMPLETELY missed the point I was making.  It's not about the subject, (whether its static or NOT is irrelevant); it's about declaring how said subject SHOULD BE TREATED, it's about declaring that something is being treated unfairly and NEEDS to be treated differently. DESPITE the fact that said subject (Leonard) has been treated NO DIFFERENTLY in terms of being mocked than any other character. IF someone needs to IGNORE that context to make their argument (Leonard is being treated unfairly by the writers), then it was a hollow argument to begin with.

 

I've seen ZERO EVIDENCE that Leonard has relatively gotten worse mocking than any of the other main characters.

[Tensor]

 

 

I've seen ZERO EVIDENCE that Leonard has relatively gotten worse mocking than any of the other main characters.

 

Which doesn't mean he hasn't.  What you think worse mocking and what others think is worse mocking may not the same.  So stating that he's been treated no differently is simply bullshit to those who think he has.  

[meka3000]

Look, if you want to look at all the characters equally, or want to view the show objectively, fine. I hope you enjoy it. I'm not going to tell you how you should feel about it, or how you should watch it. Enjoy it the way you want to. I just can't seem to figure out why so many people need to tell me how to watch or enjoy the show.

 

I'm not telling you how to view a show.  I'm simply saying that I see your viewpoint on Leonard being treated unfairly as flawed.  No more, no less.

 

As grav pointed out, David is a static piece, and even then, it makes different people feel differently about it. One person my think it beautifully defined. Others could care less about it. Neither one of those is correct, nor is either one wrong as each person is different. 

 

As pointed out above to grav, you missed the entire point.

 

Leonard started out one way, and through the years they changed him. I was willing to buy that and went with it. The last two years, IMO, from the various events, they've reverted him back (and to a lesser extent Penny). I was willing to buy the changes, as they seemed a natural progression. Others weren't willing and now don't watch the show. The reversion back in an attempt for cheap laughs, doesn't amuse me, and it destroys, for me, the picture of Leonard and Penny the writers have built up over the years. I don't have to like it, and especially with the cheating, based on my life, I don't.

 

I'm just gonna say that I don't buy 1 or 2 bad days as character regression. But that's just me, YMMV.

I drank it but at no time did I even come close to doing what Leonard did. I had a girl try to kiss me, and it was like Howard's move to get away and she caught lip. At no time did I find out if she was a smoker. And a bit more perspective on this. These absences were in the 70s,80s, and early 90s. Before the internet, before generally available cell phones.

 

Congratulations, you have better will power than Leonard does.  But Leonard's character is NOT YOU, not EVERY PERSON is going to react the way you or Leonard did.  This ALONE doesn't make them good or bad people, it's how they choose to live their lives that ultimately does.

 

Leonard has been known to not think with the "right head" sometimes, as has been established, sometimes he lets female attention go to his head.  But only to a certain degree.  I can easily buy that "under the influence" a girl that Leonard was talking to could initiate lip lock with him, and that he could be shocked for a few seconds, UNTIL putting a stop to the kissing and him possibly not doing it sooner could be due to alcohol possibly slowing down his reaction time.

Leonard could have Skyped with Penny(he was streaming video for goodness sake), if nothing else, he could call her anytime or use VOIP, as the ship evidently had an internet connection. He or she could have sent pictures almost instantly.

 

Where's this evidence that he didn't?

 

So, being away, with alcohol available is no where near either an excuse or mitigating factor.

 

Show me where I said the alcohol and/or environment, absolved Leonard of ALL responsibility?   Like I've said before I'm mad at him for this happening, but I'm more mad that he kept this a secret from Penny for 2 years.  But nothing established IMO has been anything that I would view as OOC for Leonard, at least that's just my take.  YMMV.

So stating that he's been treated no differently is simply bullshit to those who think he has.  

 

And him being that persons favorite character doesn't possibly create a confirmation bias in said persons point of view?

[Nogravitasatall]

You COMPLETELY missed the point I was making. It's not about the subject, (whether its static or NOT is irrelevant); it's about declaring how said subject SHOULD BE TREATED, it's about declaring that something is being treated unfairly and NEEDS to be treated differently. DESPITE the fact that said subject (Leonard) has been treated NO DIFFERENTLY in terms of being mocked than any other character. IF someone needs to IGNORE that context to make their argument (Leonard is being treated unfairly by the writers), then it was a hollow argument to begin with.

I've seen ZERO EVIDENCE that Leonard has relatively gotten worse mocking than any of the other main characters.

Well, more caps might help my comprehension . But the contention is that L/P has had less story and have been made to look venal and selfish. Which they once weren't. It's not about the observer, it's the subject. I see it, and others do too.

[meka3000]

But the contention is that L/P has had less story and have been made to look venal and selfish. Which they once weren't. It's not about the observer, it's the subject. I see it, and others do too.

 

Well it's a good thing that contentions are not things that all people agree upon. I won't disagree on a lack of story, but where have they been shown as venal this season?  Also the selfish part?  I think they have their occasional selfish moment which I've seen as nothing more than circumstantial, but in the grand scheme of things I haven't seen them as selfish ALL TOGETHER.

[Tensor]

Snip...

This whole post reads to me as if you are telling me the way I watch the show is wrong. That's the way you are coming off. e.g.:

1. you're view is flawed, (How am I not watching it wrong, if my view is flawed?)

2.You don't see 1 or 2 days as regression (never mind I think there are more),

3.But Leonard's character is NOT YOU, not EVERY PERSON is going to react the way you or Leonard did. (Yet you tell me my reaction is wrong)

4. Where is the evidence he didn't? (Where's your evidence he did?, hint, there isn't any).

 

And him being that persons favorite character doesn't possibly create a confirmation bias in said persons point of view?

I'm not the only one seeing a problem in the way Leonard has been portrayed. There could be confirmation bias in how some don't see anything wrong with the way he's been portrayed. Doesn't make them wrong and if they want to look at it that way, fine, I'm not going to tell them they're wrong to look at it that way.

[Nogravitasatall]

Well it's a good thing that contentions are not things that all people agree upon. I won't disagree on a lack of story, but where have they been shown as venal this season? Also the selfish part? I think they have their occasional selfish moment which I've seen as nothing more than circumstantial, but in the grand scheme of things I haven't seen them as selfish ALL TOGETHER.

They both selfishly kept information to themselves. I may be wrong on venal. I may have been thinking venereal - lets hope I was wrong there too. After two years the symptoms would show. Heheh. But these two would have have given each other the shirts off their own backs in the past. Now they are closed to each other. A finance guy? And kissing someone else when your girl is at home with Sheldon? Not what one would expect. Pretty mundane too. Disappointing.

The upside might be that some glorious form of redemption awaits. That'd be nice. What are the odds?

Edit: actually I think I intended selfish and mercenary. That fits better.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Nogravitasatall

[meka3000]

This whole post reads to me as if you are telling me the way I watch the show is wrong. That's the way you are coming off. e.g.:

 

I think your reading what you WANT TO READ out of my posts.

 

 

 

1. you're view is flawed, (How am I not watching it wrong, if my view is flawed?)

 

I've already stated that in above posts.

 

 

3.But Leonard's character is NOT YOU, not EVERY PERSON is going to react the way you or Leonard did. (Yet you tell me my reaction is wrong)

 

No, I'm saying I disagree with your interpretation of his character.  Is there something fundamentally wrong with that?

 

 

4. Where is the evidence he didn't? (Where's your evidence he did?, hint, there isn't any).

 

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

I'm not the only one seeing a problem in the way Leonard has been portrayed.

 

And I'm not the only one that thinks some fans of said character and relationships have blown these problems WAY out of proportion.

They both selfishly kept information to themselves.

 

I don't think it's as simple as that.  I think they both felt they were doing their significant other a favor by not bringing up anything that might make each other feel upset.  Doesn't mean it was the right thing to do, but I don't see their actions as being purely motivated by selfishness.

Edited May 14, 2015 by meka3000

[ajond]

Well it's a good thing that contentions are not things that all people agree upon. I won't disagree on a lack of story, but where have they been shown as venal this season?  Also the selfish part?  I think they have their occasional selfish moment which I've seen as nothing more than circumstantial, but in the grand scheme of things I haven't seen them as selfish ALL TOGETHER.

Maybe you should try Bolding as well as caps , it will double the impact (at least).

[SRAM]

The problem with this new revelation, of Leonard cheating (even a little), is that the proverbial stink of it is going to stay on him the rest of the show, this will never go away for his character.

[Guest]

If Sheldon finds out about this it will probably be a running gag forever

[hokie3457]

I am hoping against hope that an additional revelation about happenings on the North Sea are brought forward that shine a different light (don't ask me how/what) on the situation. I was spoiled and it's been 5 days, but there is still "a disturbance in the force". The absence of some has me shaken.

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Tapatalk

[Martin Pollard]

I am hoping against hope that an additional revelation about happenings on the North Sea are brought forward that shine a different light (don't ask me how/what) on the situation.

 

I doubt it'll matter. There are people who will find something to complain about no matter what happens.

[RudyG]

The problem with this new revelation, of Leonard cheating (even a little), is that the proverbial stink of it is going to stay on him the rest of the show, this will never go away for his character.

Or Lenny gets married sometime(200th episode) in season 9 and they have a little more then a season of happy wedded bliss. Then no one really cares about that kiss anymore. It could happen, but who know what Chuck will do?