Leonard And Penny: Season 8 So Far

[Guest]

I think the writers have a problem now when shamy gets back together. If shamy wants to get married or live together what do they do with Leonard. Penny has never wanted to live with Leonard

[Martin Pollard]

I think the writers have a problem now when shamy gets back together. If shamy wants to get married or live together what do they do with Leonard. Penny has never wanted to live with Leonard

Penny didn't want to live with Leonard for one episode back in season 6. Leonard complained last season about how Sheldon was holding them back from living together, which tells me that they've discussed it already and that Penny is now open to the idea (and since they're engaged, she'd better be, otherwise married life would be quite problematic). People can change their opinions.

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[hokie3457]

Chuck frightens me big time. He appears to have a different world view of the characters in his shows. It's my opinion that Bill and Steve are the kinder, gentler executives. But again, Chuck really frightens me...

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[SRAM]

Since Penny agreed to continue to Las Vegas to get married, can anyone tell me how it will not be drama if they come back not married in season 9. They were all excited about it until the kiss confession, so if they don't do it how can the excuse be anything more than that?

The thing that bothers me about the last few seasons is that before, the attraction of Penny to Leonard was he wasn't like other guys, he was the sweet, kind, gentle nerd who would never hurt her. But the the writers seem to want to put every failing of Penny's previous boyfriends into him now. It sort of ruins the original concept of Leonard and Penny and why they keep coming back together, in the show

[Nogravitasatall]

The problem with this new revelation, of Leonard cheating (even a little), is that the proverbial stink of it is going to stay on him the rest of the show, this will never go away for his character.

..."feet of clay" is pretty appropriate. He has been the idol of some. Hehehe. Mary Cooper would get it. But it's an interesting challenge. Reformation and rehabilitation is a real thing. But "give a dog a bad name and hang him" works for some too. Let's see what Penny does. It's bad but it's not bad enough, in my book, to condemn him outright. But it's completely unnecessary. They didn't need to do that, and there is a long time for people to stew over it before we see what happens next. Damned Hollywood writer sophisticates. Lol.

[Carlos]

You know what ? Actually SRAM's comments put things in perspective for me , and make me not want to watch the show anymore. What I need to keep on watching is, as Hokie said, additional revelations regarding the kiss. If not, I think I'm out.

[Nogravitasatall]

You know what ? Actually SRAM's comments put things in perspective for me , and make me not want to watch the show anymore. What I need to keep on watching is, as Hokie said, additional revelations regarding the kiss. If not, I think I'm out.

Fair enough. This season went a long way with the sucking out the magic. I'm inured to it now. That "ship" is on the horizon, heading out.

[meka3000]

The problem with this new revelation, of Leonard cheating (even a little), is that the proverbial stink of it is going to stay on him the rest of the show, this will never go away for his character.

 

Except I've seen situations like this play out where a main character commits some form of act of infidelity, on many sitcoms before.  Some of them didn't EVEN involve alcohol.  From The Simpsons, to The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, to That 70's Show, to Boy Meets World.  Despite what happened on those shows the viewers for the most part were eventually able to look past a main characters sin in those moments.

 

In that last one I mentioned Corey Matthews did it twice; the first time he didn't fight back.  BUT he was upfront with Topanga (his girlfriend-and eventually the love of his life) about it that same day.

The second time he was kissed it was with a girl named Lauren who kept him company at a ski lodge, because he sprained his ankle.  He eventually ended up staying up all night talking to her without realizing it.  His ankle was eventually better, but he lied to Topanga about his ankle just so he could talk to Lauren more because he enjoyed talking to her.  She eventually kisses him, then Cory feels guilty enough to tell Topanga that he lied about his ankle just so he could talk to Lauren more, though (under the advice of his friend Shawn told him) he omitted the part about the kiss.  Lauren gave Cory a letter before they all left.  In the letter it talks about how Lauren feels about Cory, it also includes the kiss that Cory DIDN'T tell Topanga about.  The letter falls out of Cory's bag and Topanga discovers it; angry that Cory lied about being upfront about whether a kiss happened.  She eventually separates and breaks up with Cory.  Though they DO manage to get past what happened in that same season.  Also most of the show's audience was able to get past the "stink" of Cory being a two-timer.

 

If Cory Matthews was eventually capable of being redeemed on Boy Meets World for his past indiscretions, and for the most part be forgiven by the audience; I see NO REASON why Leonard Hofstadter can't get past the "stink" of his actions with the audience.

But the the writers seem to want to put every failing of Penny's previous boyfriends into him now.

 

When did Penny's previous cheating boyfriends show true regret for how they treated Penny?

Edited May 13, 2015 by meka3000

[SRAM]

Except I've seen situations like this play out where a main character commits some form of act of infidelity, on many sitcoms before.  Some of them didn't EVEN involve alcohol.  From The Simpsons, to The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, to That 70's Show, to Boy Meets World.  Despite what happened on those shows the viewers for the most part were eventually able to look past a main characters sin in those moments.

 

In that last one I mentioned Corey Matthews did it twice; the first time he didn't fight back.  BUT he was upfront with Topanga (his girlfriend-and eventually the love of his life) about it that same day.

The second time he was kissed it was with a girl named Lauren who kept him company at a ski lodge, because he sprained his ankle.  He eventually ended up staying up all night talking to her without realizing it.  His ankle was eventually better, but he lied to Topanga about his ankle just so he could talk to Lauren more because he enjoyed talking to her.  She eventually kisses him, then Cory feels guilty enough to tell Topanga that he lied about his ankle just so he could talk to Lauren more, though (under the advice of his friend Shawn told him) he omitted the part about the kiss.  Lauren gave Cory a letter before they all left.  In the letter it talks about how Lauren feels about Cory, it also includes the kiss that Cory DIDN'T tell Topanga about.  The letter falls out of Cory's bag and Topanga discovers it; angry that Cory lied about being upfront about whether a kiss happened.  She eventually separates and breaks up with Cory.  Though they DO manage to get past what happened in that same season.  Also most of the show's audience was able to get past the "stink" of Cory being a two-timer.

 

If Cory Matthews was eventually capable of being redeemed on Boy Meets World for his past indiscretions, and for the most part be forgiven by the audience; I see NO REASON why Leonard Hofstadter can't get past the "stink" of his actions with the audience.

 

When did Penny's previous cheating boyfriends show true regret for how they treated Penny?

I can't relate to those other shows, sorry. If you just look at TBBT, things like Leonard's cheating on Priya (even though no one liked her), have stayed with him whenever his character came up and this will too. People still bring up his night with Dr Slutbunny and Penny's with Raj even though neither of those were cheating, so they won't forget his boat kiss no matter how benign it was. I think part of it is the reason Penny always wanted Leonard had a lot to do with his character so every time his character is diminished the whole relationship is diminished too.

[5Mississippis]

 

I am hoping against hope that an additional revelation about happenings on the North Sea are brought forward that shine a different light (don't ask me how/what) on the situation. I was spoiled and it's been 5 days, but there is still "a disturbance in the force". The absence of some has me shaken.


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Fair enough. This season went a long way with the sucking out the magic. I'm inured to it now. That "ship" is on the horizon, heading out.

 

The same holds for me. I have been very unhappy with this dreadful Season 8 and the finale left me pulverized. The TPTB left us to stew for a couple of months with a lot of important questions concerning the details of the kiss unanswered. Like hokie, I'm hoping for an additional revelation, something to make a clearer picture of the kissing event that makes Leonard not look like a lying cheat. I'm hopeful but I'm not too sure that redemption for Leonard (and us/me) will come. 

 

My next dread is that we will see a lot more Shenny. As the innocent and injured parties in the finale, I can totally see Sheldon and Penny turning to one another.  I have no proof, no evidence, it's just a gnashing feeling in my gut. And that's TBBT I DON'T want to watch. Ever. I'll give Season 9 a chance but if TPTB start going the Shenny way and they keep minimizing and writing Leonard the way they have, I'm out. 

 

FWIW, this is the 'Aaron Takahashi' moment from the ship that I was dreading. I ranted about it in Season 7. 

[Guest]

The same holds for me. I have been very unhappy with this dreadful Season 8 and the finale left me pulverized. The TPTB left us to stew for a couple of months with a lot of important questions concerning the details of the kiss unanswered. Like hokie, I'm hoping for an additional revelation, something to make a clearer picture of the kissing event that makes Leonard not look like a lying cheat. I'm hopeful but I'm not too sure that redemption for Leonard (and us/me) will come.

My next dread is that we will see a lot more Shenny. As the innocent and injured parties in the finale, I can totally see Sheldon and Penny turning to one another. I have no proof, no evidence, it's just a gnashing feeling in my gut. And that's TBBT I DON'T want to watch. Ever. I'll give Season 9 a chance but if TPTB start going the Shenny way and they keep minimizing and writing Leonard the way they have, I'm out.

FWIW, this is the 'Aaron Takahashi' moment from the ship that I was dreading. I ranted about it in Season 7.

I think you're right because you know he's the wise man and knows. everything including relationship matters s7 they barely got along now he's a better friend than either Amy or Bernie

[SRAM]

I think you're right because you know he's the wise man and knows. everything including relationship matters s7 they barely got along now he's a better friend than either Amy or Bernie

That is the problem, how have we gone from Penny coming into 4A and asking first thing "is Leonard here?" To her waiting so that she catches Sheldon alone to discuss her problems?

[Nogravitasatall]

That is the problem, how have we gone from Penny coming into 4A and asking first thing "is Leonard here?" To her waiting so that she catches Sheldon alone to discuss her problems?

Because Truth and Beauty are always torn down by Populism? (um).

[meka3000]

I can't relate to those other shows, sorry. If you just look at TBBT, things like Leonard's cheating on Priya (even though no one liked her), have stayed with him whenever his character came up and this will too. People still bring up his night with Dr Slutbunny and Penny's with Raj even though neither of those were cheating, so they won't forget his boat kiss no matter how benign it was. I think part of it is the reason Penny always wanted Leonard had a lot to do with his character so every time his character is diminished the whole relationship is diminished too.

 

 

Why does it matter if you can't relate to those shows?  It doesn't matter if you can't, ultimately the point is that viewers were able to get past a characters act of infidelity.  Viewers of those shows didn't all forget, but most of them were able to forgive.  So why is it impossible for viewers to forgive Leonard for any screwups like on the boat?

[SRAM]

Why does it matter if you can't relate to those shows?  It doesn't matter if you can't, ultimately the point is that viewers were able to get past a characters act of infidelity.  Viewers of those shows didn't all forget, but most of them were able to forgive.  So why is it impossible for viewers to forgive Leonard for any screwups like on the boat?

It is not impossible but people won't do it. They haven't forgotten about Penny sleeping with Raj, and they haven't forgotten about Leonard cheating on Priya, so this will not be forgotten either.

[meka3000]

It is not impossible but people won't do it. They haven't forgotten about Penny sleeping with Raj, and they haven't forgotten about Leonard cheating on Priya, so this will not be forgotten either.

 

There's a difference between forgive and forget.

[vasu]

Season 8 showed that Penny should dump leonard ...... he cheats ...he lies.....he wants penny to fail just to boost his ego.....

penny already thinks leonard is whiny and an idoit......not add cheater and lier to it......dumping seems to be the logical step.....

Edited May 14, 2015 by vasu

[Nogravitasatall]

Pigs arse. (note that is popular colloquial exclamation, not a pejorative). That's bollocks. No way should she automatically dump him. He needs is a good slapping around (metaphorically) and they need to reflect on how they go forward after they process this. He broke trust once and self-reported. He is remorseful. If they mean anything to each other now they may well go on and never look back.

It does tarnish the L/P brand tremendously, and it's not nothing, but in life it's not an insurmountable problem. In the show it was a really sucky twist to buy more time and makes no sense for Leonard. He is meant to be better than that.

This is a dramatic device, like Frodo struggling with the temptations of the One Ring. I'll venture that Sheldon, like Gollum, will be the instrument of his salvation and allow the completion of his quest. What fiery pit of awaits Sheldon, who knows. Or maybe Sheldon is like Sam, and he will get Frodo to his destination.

[Guest]

Maybe they did Leonard this way to show that shamy is the is the #1 couple now

[Nogravitasatall]

Maybe they did Leonard this way to show that shamy is the is the #1 couple now

Not now or ever, for this little black duck. Can't help what others think. And if that's how they go forward, well I'm really enjoying OUTLANDER right now. And I can go back to internet Mundania. I have options. Like Penny really. One thing, she won't be shacking up with Sheldon, and neither will I.

[Guest]

My guess is that the shamy is now the cash cow and that's all the writers see

[SRAM]

My guess is that the shamy is now the cash cow and that's all the writers see

I think it is simpler than that, Sheldon is the cash cow.

I'm actually surprised that the Shamy's are not more upset about how much Shenny there was this season and how it cut into Shamy time and emotion. Like the love test, why didn't he have that moment of vulnerability with Amy instead of Penny?

[meka3000]

he cheats 

 

Different degrees, his was allegedly a moment of weakness.  Besides Penny has cheated on people to in her life, but you NEVER bring up her past skeletons.

 

...he lies

 

And Penny doesn't?

 

 

 

.....he wants penny to fail just to boost his ego.....

 

He never said he wanted her to fail, just to TAKE THE AUDITION.  BIG DIFFERENCE.  Even then it's obvious he didn't really mean what you said and only responded to the first suggestion Penny gave him.

 

 

 

penny already thinks leonard is whiny and an idoit

 

She thought he was whiny IN A SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCE.  Again your taking details OUT OF CONTEXT just to fit your strawman argument.  And when has she specifically said he's an idiot this season?

Edited May 15, 2015 by meka3000

[meka3000]

It does tarnish the L/P brand tremendously, and it's not nothing, but in life it's not an insurmountable problem. In the show it was a really sucky twist to buy more time and makes no sense for Leonard. He is meant to be better than that.

 

I won't go into how I think it's possible with Leonard's character, because it seems like people ONLY WANT TO assume the worst, when an idol on a specific persons pedestal betrays their own personal beliefs of who that person is for them.

 

I don't see how this tarnishes Leonard's character anymore than it does J.D. and Carla's characters on the sitcom Scrubs when they kissed, while ALSO DRUNK.  In some ways that kiss wasn't as allegedly terrible as Leonard's was with the girl (again we don't have a specific measure on the kiss on the boat); but in other ways this kiss allegedly WAS WORSE.  Carla was not only A MARRIED WOMAN; but was also his BEST FRIENDS WIFE.

 

He was also drunk, and SHOULD'VE known better, but he kissed her back after she kissed first.  But he also while in his drunken state, knew he screwed up there.  But didn't want to tell his best friend Turk (Carla's husband) about what happened, though Carla did; when Turk said "we now have no secrets between us".

 

But despite all that fans of Scrubs were able to forgive J.D. & Carla for having a moment of weakness.  So why EXACTLY am I supposed to believe Leonard will be tainted for the rest of the show for having a moment of weakness himself?  Again I'm more mad that he didn't come clean earlier, but I'd be even MORE FURIOUS if he DIDN'T fess up when Penny brought up having no secrets or regrets.

Edited May 15, 2015 by meka3000

[RudyG]

I think it is simpler than that, Sheldon is the cash cow.

I'm actually surprised that the Shamy's are not more upset about how much Shenny there was this season and how it cut into Shamy time and emotion. Like the love test, why didn't he have that moment of vulnerability with Amy instead of Penny?

Sheldon and Amy are already in love. No need for them to take the test.

 

You might think that Sheldon is the cash cow, but most everyone I know started watching TBBT because of Johnny and Kaley. I liked Johnny in Rosanne, and liked Kaley in 8 Simple, and loved Kaley in the last season of Charmed.