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Tripper

820 The Fortification Implementation (April 9)

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I think a physicist at Cal Tech though would still make more money?

 

He would. TBBT does not relate to the real world at all for the salaries of the guys. A tenure track Physicist at Cal Tech would make between 90K to 114K with Leonard credentials. When he got tenure professor he would make nearly 180K. You can google these figures.

 

TBBT has always played fast and loose with the incomes of the characters (especially Howard, a world class aeronautical engineer!!) in order to keep them in the same places that they started. If Leonard really made what an acclaimed scientist at Cal Tech would really get, he and Penny would not be living in fourth floor walk-up apartments suffering the unintentional (sometimes) indignities of Sheldon.

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The problem is her making twice Leonard's salary and accumulating enough to have a financial adviser in 7 months. First, as I stated, she does not have the educational accomplishment (almost all Pharma reps have at least a Bachelors degree). This assumes Penny is some sort of sales savant who is recognized as such by the sales manager despite her having only a high school education and appearing like a complete dope in her interview. Second, she would be given a "rookie territory", any patch that can generate that kind of quota return will be in the grasps of a veteran. Third, if she somehow was able to get such a lucrative territory, what kind of sales plan pays out that kind of cash in only two quarters of a fiscal year? And that assumes she had no probationary period.

 

It's all based on performance. I think they were implying she's become very good at her job, and education/experience/rookie status doesn't mean much if she's selling product like hotcakes. Having only a high school education doesn't mean you can't be an incredible sales person. Some sales plans pay commission quarterly, so if she was doing well she would have had at least 2 payouts by now.

 

Also, you don't need to have much money to have a financial adviser. You could invest $1,000 into the stock market and 'have a guy'. 

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why do you seem to enjoy knocking Shamy down?

why do you enjoy making something out of nothing?

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It's all based on performance. I think they were implying she's become very good at her job, and education/experience/rookie status doesn't mean much if she's selling product like hotcakes. Having only a high school education doesn't mean you can't be an incredible sales person. Some sales plans pay commission quarterly, so if she was doing well she would have had at least 2 payouts by now.

 

Also, you don't need to have much money to have a financial adviser. You could invest $1,000 into the stock market and 'have a guy'. 

 

Ok. This old salesman will just say, It was entertaining. :shy:

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We need to settle this matter for record. How make does Leonard!   

 

How much does a PhD scientist working at Cal Tech (its not a community college, its the premier research faculty in the world) make a year?  Its has to be a decent amount!  Anyone have any guesses or hard evidence on what they pay at cal tech?   

 

I mean penny could sell ice to people in Alaska in January.  But she cant be that good, to make twice Leonard wages!

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Yes, but if they don't teach (which they typically don't) they could be making considerably less. When I was working in a lab in university, the researchers who weren't teaching made half of what those who did teach (regularly) made.

 

Either way, there are some inconsistencies in how they've portrayed the finances. But there are also so many variables that can impact salaries for both Leonard and Penny's positions

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A better question is how was Penny able to live by herself for seven years on CCF salary which can be found online at $30,000 tops?

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We need to settle this matter for record. How make does Leonard!   

 

How much does a PhD scientist working at Cal Tech (its not a community college, its the premier research faculty in the world) make a year?  Its has to be a decent amount!  Anyone have any guesses or hard evidence on what they pay at cal tech?   

 

I mean penny could sell ice to people in Alaska in January.  But she cant be that good, to make twice Leonard wages!

 

This episode has brought up an old discussion on this forum. The income of the characters has little correlation to their real world equevilents. The fact is the guys in real life would make far more than what is implied but that would make the story lines much more incongreous for the writers.

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why do you enjoy making something out of nothing?

 

Go back and read your comments, any time someone even mentions Sheldon and Amy in this thread you have been nothing but snarky about it. It's ludicrous. I don't know where you got it into your head that it has to be Lenny or Shamy but not both. It's silly. People can love both and celebrate the accomplishments of both.

 

But every time you sit there and say things like

 

 

 

My niece and nephew did that when they were like 6. I don't think it was a milestone moment for them though.

 

or

 

 

And having a fort in your living room is healthy?

 

It makes you look petty. Especially the last quote where no one was talking about Shamy and yet you had to some how make the conversation back into how bad you think a couple Sheldon and Amy are.

 

I don't understand where this Lenny vs Shamy battle started on this whole forum but it's sad.

Edited by NerwenAldarion
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Go back and ...

 If you don't like the opinions of other posters, refute the opinions, don't make about the other poster.  If you only want to see supportive statements, about the characters, ship zones were created with that in mind.

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I really enjoyed this episode even if I had to suspend disbelief a couple of times.

Howard's brother, the Sheldon Amy interaction and the Wil interview were all entertaining.

 

Penny and Leonard's relationship is quite foreign to me. I mean the fact she is not more open with him.

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Finally got to see what I missed on this episode because of the local station interrupting for tornado watches. Only missed a minue or so of Lenny. To me it was a strange episode. Not necessarily bad but rather confusing.

Storyline 1 Shsmy- I get the idea they missed out of things in their childhood. There was a prom episode earlier in the year which was fine. But forts? IMO at their age you don't need to relive thst. My only other comment is about Amy hiding her pajamas throughout the apartment a couple of years sgo. It was a combination of funny, sad and desperate all in one.

Storyline 2 Lenny- I get the bottom line was for Leonard to be okay sbout Penny auditioning but there must of been s better way thsn that, Earlier in the year there was an episode when they saw Howdette to discuss money. now this episode has Penny as a investment guru and makes more money than Leonard. It seems strange after Howdette they had no clue about how much each other made or their individual investments. again seems like getting way off track just so Leonard is okay for auditioning.

Storyline 3 Howdette- obviously the writers had no plans for them the last 12 episodes this season because they got their money's worth from Howard's mother death. While the storyline was fine I can't believe they were ever going to hsve a storyline like this.

My only other point is Raj looks totally lost. Oh where are you Emily?

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Pretty good episode, but I have issues with the Leonard/Penny argument:

 

I find it very hard to believe that, being engaged, they don't know the status of each others financial situation/salaries. Penny obviously seemed to know what kind of money Leonard was making, so it's not so believable that he's totally clueless as to the money she is making. Especially since we've seen hints in past episodes that she's doing quite well.

 

Even before my husband and I were engaged and living together we knew the details of each others financial situations, and had discussed a financial plan for the future. We might not have known exact numbers in every account, but we had a general idea of how much savings/debt/investments each other had.

 

I don't find it hard to believe.  Earlier this season when they talked about investing in the comic book store, Penny's reaction was "why do you need to check with me?"  I think Penny underestimates how big a deal some of these things can be, in terms of making decisions as a unit and not just one person making a decision without the other.  That doesn't mean they can't work these things out, but it is something L & P do need to work on.

 

Also I took Penny's line about her making twice as much as Leonard to be her own educated guess.  For all we know Penny could be full of crap, and not knowing what she's talking about.

 

 

As for the episode itself, this one was a bombshell, particularly for Howard, Leonard, & Penny.

 

It's looking like Penny's version of Howards father (from The Closet Reconfiguration) is looking more and more palpable.

 

The Shamy Blanket Fort plot was cute.  Sheldon also takes another step forward here.

 

It was a nice change of pace to see Penny being more mature here.  I was worried how the "fight" between Lenny would turn out when I read Wil egging Lenny on in the TR.  But it turned out just to be him being prone to exaggeration.  Something that fits the BBT version of Wil Wheaton.  Yeah them having this discussion on the air wasn't the best move, but there was no yelling or screaming.  They were merely having a conversation about this opportunity and their current relationship/financial status while they just happened to be on the air.

 

I'm anxious about what this opportunity could mean for Penny (and Leonard) as the season draws to a close, but anxious IN A WAY; that makes me want to see HOW IT TURNS OUT.  That's a feeling I haven't felt with Lenny in awhile.  Heck it's a feeling I haven't felt with the show in a LONG TIME.

 

Hoping the last 4 episodes finish strong this season.

The problem is her making twice Leonard's salary and accumulating enough to have a financial adviser in 7 months. First, as I stated, she does not have the educational accomplishment (almost all Pharma reps have at least a Bachelors degree). This assumes Penny is some sort of sales savant who is recognized as such by the sales manager despite her having only a high school education and appearing like a complete dope in her interview. Second, she would be given a "rookie territory", any patch that can generate that kind of quota return will be in the grasps of a veteran. Third, if she somehow was able to get such a lucrative territory, what kind of sales plan pays out that kind of cash in only two quarters of a fiscal year? And that assumes she had no probationary period.

 

Actually that could be 9 months given how season 8 allegedly started in early to mid July (45 days after season 7 ended).

 

Yes almost all Pharma Reps have a bachelors degree, key word being ALMOST.

 

Yes she was a complete dope in her interview, but The Junior Professor Solution & The Focus Attenuation showed us a far more competent and focused Penny that could thrive in the sales environment when she takes her job seriously.

Either way, there are some inconsistencies in how they've portrayed the finances. But there are also so many variables that can impact salaries for both Leonard and Penny's positions

 

Such as Leonard still paying student loans. ;)

Edited by meka3000

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I wonder if with all this money penny is supposed to be earning, whether she should start paying off her credit card debts, would make sense

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I felt like that while the Howardette and Shamy stories were entertaining, they stopped short of delivering the entertainment value they could have done.  The episode was not a bad one, but it definitely had issues, starting with the Lenny story which could have been fun with Wil but was so poorly executed IMO.  It was just too far fetched and unbelievable that Penny was in such short order such an outstanding sales rep that she has to have an investment counselor (and how in the world did she select one when she has never had any money management capability in the past?)  and that she makes double Leonard's salary.  Likewise, Miss "I have no money, but these shoes are calling my name" Penny suddenly is responsible?  And manipulating Leonard to get what she wanted was also not a very healthy sign for their relationship when it is already one that is an enigma to many since she seems to only find fault in Leonard.   It wasn't even a funny story.  No real comedy to it.  So to me that story drug down the episode some and the time used for it could have been better used to flush out the other two stories that seemed so unfinished and they had to end them without any "bang for the buck".  I mean you never did figure out why Howard's brother shows up.  They never explained it well.   And it went nowhere at that.   I really would have liked more time spent on that story. 

 

I am all for some Lenny story, but something that seems more believable and something that has a lot more comedy aspect to it.  Sadly, it was the boat anchor that brought the rest of the show down a few levels.

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It was just too far fetched and unbelievable that Penny was in such short order such an outstanding sales rep that she has to have an investment counselor (and how in the world did she select one when she has never had any money management capability in the past?)  and that she makes double Leonard's salary.  Likewise, Miss "I have no money, but these shoes are calling my name" Penny suddenly is responsible?  And manipulating Leonard to get what she wanted was also not a very healthy sign for their relationship when it is already one that is an enigma to many since she seems to only find fault in Leonard. 

 

What makes you think she chose a good investment counselor?  For all you know this guy could be taking Penny's money for a ride and she doesn't know it. It could be revealed later that "the guy" could be a con artist.

 

I think Penny has always been capable of being more responsible, she just had a really bad habit of being lazy.

 

I don't see where the manipulation came from,  Wil saying he got played doesn't make it manipulation.  My impression was that she wanted to make him feel better and threw that out there as a suggestion.  Him being "played" was him loosing the arguement in that he now says he wants her to take the audition.  A reversal of where he previously stood.

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Cute episode, especially the SHAMY Fort building part.   Building a Fort together and having their first sleepover is a wonderful next step for them.  Also this whole scenario reminds me of that episode in season 7 Romance Resonance when Sheldon was upset because he got a big grant even though he made a mistake in discovering that super heavy element and he told Amy at first that she wasn't allowed in his Fort.  But, then after she told him exactly what he wanted to here by insulting him, he changed his mind and said "Congratulations Dr. Fowler, you just made the Fort!"  LOL  This felt like a continuation of that because now they finally built a fort and are sharing it together. (And, metaphorically speaking its like they are slowly building a life together sheet by sheet) I love that he immediately allowed her to come into the Fort when she asked and even was the one to suggest breaking the rules at first so she could stay later.  Super Adorbs!  I also love that Sheldon was willing to lend Amy a toothbrush and his pajamas.  That shows so MAJOR growth on Shelly's part that he would be willing to let her use HIS toothbrush and sleep in HIS pajamas.   And, just the fact that he didn't get the least bit upset that she already had her sleepover goodie bag packed and hidden there at his place shows just how much he wanted her to stick around and instead complimented her on being prepared was just brilliant!  SQUEE!! <3  I don't care what anyone else thinks SHAMY is Best Couple on this show for me hands down because of moments like this!

 

As for the rest of the episode with Penny/Leonard/Wil/Kevin  and Howard/Bernadette/Raj and Howard's new half brother.... those storylines were both pretty meh and not very funny or super cute.  I did like that Howard was able to bond with his half brother, but I feel like I'd have rather they introduced his father Sam then a half brother.  I feel like Howard needs to finally confront his dad about leaving his mom and get to know the man once and for all otherwise introducing the half-brother will just seem like a cop out to me and a unnecessary less meaningful addition.  I hope someday they get around to casting Howard's dad and finally let Howard hash out his daddy issues, but do so in a funny way.  Meeting his half brother just came off more awkward than funny.   But I liked Howard's storyline better than the Penny/Leonard one this week.

 

The parts with Penny and Leonard annoyed me tonight.  And neither one of them came off looking good during that stupid fight in my eyes, they just both looked petty and like each was only thinking about themself and not their partner.  I hate the way Penny acts now that she makes all this money, as if she didn't  rely on Leonard and Sheldon for food and rent money for years and basically mooched off them for years for free Wifi and its like she's forgotten all about how much she sucked at being an actress too.  That is why she was cast in that crappy Ape movie to begin with and she wasn't a good waitress either.  But, if acting is her true passion then she should pursue it because its her dream.  However, if she's making all this money then she should make sure she saves most of it so if/when her acting career ends up a big fat Bust again she won't have too once again go crying to Leonard for help.  He bought her a car when she was broke, and he helped pay for her acting classes and now that she makes more money she really doesn't even care about how it must hurt his feelings to have it thrown in his face that her money is hers alone to do with what she pleases.   But, his money he was more than willing to share with her, that is so selfish PENNY!!  Just because she makes more than him now doesn't give her the right to talk down to him like she was doing tonight and on the radio no less just to add insult to injury.  Besides the only reason she even has that good job now is because Bernadette put in the good word for her at her company in the first place.  If she hadn't done that Penny would still be broke living off Leonard doing yoga or back in Nebraska, so she needs to stop acting like she is so much better than him now and be grateful he helped her along the way. 

 

 

But, Leonard came off super annoying too just as bad as Penny, because if he didn't want to discuss it on radio instead of repeatedly asking Wil to turn it off, he should have just kept his big mouth shut and waited til later to talk about it with Penny in private.  Waited until later when she wasn't so super excited about just being offered an AMAZING opportunity by Kevin Freaking Smith!   He may not have wanted her to quit her job for practical reasons, but saying so then wasn't the right time, jeez its like just because you have a doctorate doesn't mean you have any common sense dude.  He still hasn't learned a thing about woman after all these years.  Don't tell her not to do something she wants to do its a sure fire way to start a fight and make her mad at you, especially if you do it in front of other people, famous people at that.  That was really dumb!

 

Leonard was never going come out on top in that situation at that time no matter what he said to her, if he were as smart as seems to think he is, Leonard should have just said nothing negative about it during the podcast and just let Penny go on the audition.  She may not have even gotten the part anyway and then he'd have nothing to worry about it.  And if she did get it, only later when they were alone he could politely recommend that she continue to pursue her dream by taking a short leave of absence from her job to film the movie and then go back to work afterwards if they'd be willing to let her return and if not then he should have encouraged her to save enough money before quitting her job so he wouldn't have to support her if her movie career attempt failed again. 

 

But either way he should definitely not have said anything while they were still on the radio that was what did him in!  Keeping his mouth shut would probably have gotten him laid too because if he had just let Penny believe that he was all for it and supported her decision for the time being she would have been happy and slept with him that night instead of ending up back at his place with Sheldon and Amy bossing him around in their tree fort LOL.    And later after the sex was over if she still wouldn't listen to reason then he should have said, "fine do whatever makes you happy sweetie I'll support you no matter what you choose to do with your life, but can I borrow some money just this once please I need it for a science experiment."   And when she stupidly gave it to him thinking she won, he should instead have put that money away into a secret savings account and waited til her acting career failed again, and if the pharmacy company wouldn't hire her back after that then he'd be able to give her back the money she gave to him without having to waste any of his own money on her ridiculous dreams again.  And if she succeeded he could actually use the money she gave him on a science experiment of his choosing and she'd never know the difference.  Plus, she'd think he was just supporting her all over again and love him even more without knowing it was her money all along.  Honestly Leonard, for having a doctorate he really doesn't have a clue.  No wonder he can't catch a break.  :p

Edited by Superlovelexi
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its like she's forgotten all about how much she sucked at being an actress too.

 

Um she's been portrayed as being a good actress, but as a fish outside of her small pond.

 

now that she makes more money she really doesn't even care about how it must hurt his feelings to have it thrown in his face that her money is hers alone to do with what she pleases.

 

Did you ignore the part where she said she was willing to help him with some of his loans?

 

so she needs to stop acting like she is so much better than him now and be grateful he helped her along the way.

 

What makes you think she's not?  Just because she doesn't remind you about it EVERY SINGLE SECOND?

 

But, Leonard came off super annoying too just as bad as Penny, because if he didn't want to discuss it on radio instead of repeatedly asking Wil to turn it off, he should have just kept his big mouth shut and waited til later to talk about it with Penny in private.

 

Where's the comedy in that?

 

 

Waited until later when she wasn't so super excited about just being offered an AMAZING opportunity by Kevin Freaking Smith!   He may not have wanted her to quit her job for practical reasons, but saying so then wasn't the right time, jeez its like just because you have a doctorate doesn't mean you have any common sense dude.  He still hasn't learned a thing about woman after all these years.  Don't tell her not to do something she wants to do its a sure fire way to start a fight and make her mad at you, especially if you do it in front of other people, famous people at that.  That was really dumb!

 

Yeah it's like Leonard has these things called CHARACTER FLAWS.  They all have them, sure he's learned alot after all these years.  IT DOESN'T mean he knows everything though.

 

Leonard was never going come out on top in that situation at that time no matter what he said to her, if he were as smart as seems to think he is, Leonard should have just said nothing negative about it during the podcast and just let Penny go on the audition.

 

Again, where's the comedy in people being 100% reasonable?

 

Yes they both didn't come off in the best of lights, but I don't see where it was overwhelmingly uncomfortable like it could have been.  I just saw their argument in the light of both of them getting carried away in the discussion.

Edited by meka3000
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I loved the episode. I enjoyed that for a 3 story plot none of them overshadowed each other. They all had equal moments & parts

For all these comments about mean Bernadette... i found her sly comments believable. His mother died a few months ago. She is moving into the house. No woman in that position would be on board with keeping it as a shrine to their mother-in-law. My hubby and I have similar banter and I am pretty sarcastic so I could relate to Bernie. She was there for him and still is but she also has to move her husband along and thats not going to happen if he doesn't agree to changes.

shamy----so much freaking growth! I went into full details on the Shamy board as here it would just get pulled apart, but as many stated the growth wasnt the actual sleepover. It was his willingness to change for her. From sitting on the floor to lending her his pajamas...from him saying lets forget the RA to negotiations on intimacy and moving up a little bit.

And Lenny. Ok I found the "I got a guy" investing thing very unbelievable. But with that being said communication has always been a hurdle for them. Ultimately Penny was right, Leonard shouldn't have said her job stuff when she was offered the audition. But I also found Penny's money comments about paying off his student loans and "you need to get some money" very below the belt. Hello this is the guy who supported you for years... Ultimately it all worked out but I think this stuff isn't dead...

Wheaton was great!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Well there is a possibility some of that sets up something coming up.

i think the Lenny storyline sets up something happening in the future. Howdette storyline was a bit of filling the episode. the Shamy part was well received, espicially it appears many Lenny's have left the forum, but was a mixture of PBS kids and the weekly Afterschool special(70's programming if your older you will remember it was teen programming).
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As the 3 couples' relationships stabilised, it is only natural for us to see the divergence of the narrative. 3 stories that have no much overlap which are hard to develop within a 20-minute episode. 

 

I am not sure the financial side of things is a good choice to propel the plot further when it comes to Lenny. TBH, I am not sure what will be at this moment a good career choice for Penny. Sales rep is neither her dream nor suits the character. Becoming an actress? Not sure how that can work out well either. It is good for her to succeed or not? If so to what extend? How do you do that without being over self-referential to Kaley? That can be funny sometimes but only so much.

 

The paternal connection of Howard was not a bad turn. However the lack of opportunity to polish the half brother character really falls short of a proper introduction if this was going anywhere. I personally prefer another quest in this part of the TBBT universe: bearing children. Looking forward is more likely to be more interesting than looking backward in a comedy. Imagine: experimenting, failing, frustration, succeeding and then the joy and challenge after the arrival of the baby. This should take us at least 1/3 of the way into S9. 

 

Shamy has the greatest number of things needing resolution and growth, it seems. So it was nice to see first the compliance and then the suspension of the agreement.  As pointed out earlier,

... ... in season 7 Romance Resonance when Sheldon was upset because he got a big grant even though he made a mistake in discovering that super heavy element and he told Amy at first that she wasn't allowed in his Fort.  But, then after she told him exactly what he wanted to here by insulting him, he changed his mind and said "Congratulations Dr. Fowler, you just made the Fort!" 

Sheldon/Amy line has the most clear direction and easiest method for development and delivery for now. 

 

 

Anyway, only few more episodes to go till end of season. I am still rooting for Penny taking a long trip away for Pasadena, maybe an acting gig, maybe a business trip for work (taking Bernie too?).  

 

Bazinga.

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I am not sure if Leonard Penny stuff can get any worse.

Did'nt Leonard in an earlier episode this season say that her making more money than his isn't even a problem.
Now apparently he is not. So he clearly was lying previously.. Pathetic ... Pathetic Leonard.

and of course Penny has no problem belittling....and he accepts it ...as always....pathetic...
is there anything about Leonard that Penny actually likes....
the show seems to have completely emasculated Leonard... next season probably he will have his private parts replaced by lady private parts lol...

oh they are engaged....and after this all this time... penny never let leonard know how much she makes.....they will have a great feature....lol

I think the writers should have penny dump leonard....it seems to the only chance of Leonard even getting a sample of backbone and character...

till then he will always be a pathetic loser....

And by the penny acts towards leonard....if she will get some success in a field which she fells is her dream...and leonard does not
support her as usual one more time.....her dumping him would be a natural progression....as she rarely shows any kind of patience or sympathy or any feeling towards leonard....

Any Penny making twice as much as Leonard so quickly....yeah the blonde who wears low cut dress so that male buyers
could see her *stuff* makes twice the money when compared to the phd scientist......

the howard stuff was just ok...

sheldon amy was fine....

Edited by Tripper
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