820 The Fortification Implementation (April 9)

[djsurrey]

If everyone only gives their own opinion, and there is no back and forth discussion this site will be a lot less active.

[Kasey]

Chrismo, nogravitasatall, what it appears everyone is trying to tell you, is that you are watching the show wrong. The things you like about the show, things you don't like about it, all wrong, don't you see.

 

I think we need a Watching TBBT and Commenting On It Agreement.  Sheldon can notarize it...

[djsurrey]

I think if one were to set aside relationship issues for a moment and look at what Leonard said in this episode from a different perspective it becomes rather interesting. I hear Leonard bemoaning all the time and effort to get his Ph.D. in physics when he is years later still paying off student loans and making half what his fiancée makes. I don't know if Leonard's exact predicament is likely but it there definitely are some out there who would discourage going down that path.

 

http://physics.wustl.edu/katz/scientist.html

 

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0105.demoulin.html

Edited April 13, 2015 by djsurrey

[Tensor]

I think if one were to set aside relationship issues for a moment and look at what Leonard said in this episode from a different perspective it becomes rather interesting. I hear Leonard bemoaning all the time and effort to get his Ph.D. in physics when he is years later still paying off student loans and making half what his fiancée makes. I don't know if Leonard's exact predicament is likely but it there definitely are some out there who would discourage going down that path.

 

http://physics.wustl.edu/katz/scientist.html

Interesingly, there was a new poster who made a post in The Show forum about their irritation with this episode due to financial reasons. The problem with TBBT topic.

[phantagrae]

Phanta and tallin. If, for example purposes, there was an episode that Shamy broke up and Lenny sent out wedding invitations how would you feel? Would you be discussing how wonderful it is Lenny finally was sending out invitations or saying how you enjoy every episode? I would assume you both would say yes since they aren't rivals or it isn't a competition.

 

I think that if there was an episode like you describe I would be wondering how the writers were going to work their way back to Sheldon/Amy getting back together because I know that would be their ultimate intention.  Just like I know that if Leonard and Penny have an argument, their wedding will not be called off--even if they were to temporarily call it off.  In the end it would all be okay.

I don't think I'd be upset if L/P were sending out wedding invitations in the same episode because one doesn't have anything to do with the other.  To paraphrase something JP said, one couple's success is not the other couple's failure.  Whether or not or when Lenny sends out wedding invitations is not dependent upon Shamy breaking up, and vice versa, unless there's something weird going on.

 

Whether or not Lenny's wedding has been put on the back burner has nothing to do with Shamy being happy.  We know that for logistical reasons they're not going to keep the wedding plans front and center because they're not doing the wedding any time soon.  That has nothing to do with the state of their relationship, and I don't see any evidence that they don't love each other or that their relationship is stagnant or in trouble.  I know some people question why they don't "act like an engaged couple", whatever that's supposed to mean, but I see it as simply that you don't want to keep dangling the wedding in front of everyone's eyes if the payoff is still a year or two away.  You concentrate on other things, like sciencey stuff or ping pong games or whatever.

 

So if there was some reason for Sheldon and Amy to break up (and I don't know what that would possibly be), I don't see how it would relate to Leonard and Penny's wedding plans.  Would I be eager to see the Shamy situation resolved?  Certainly.  But would I gripe about the Lenny storyline progressing?  Why would I?

Again, one doesn't depend upon the other or have to do with the other.

Chrismo, nogravitasatall, what it appears everyone is trying to tell you, is that you are watching the show wrong. The things you like about the show, things you don't like about it, all wrong, don't you see.

 

Not watching the show wrong, but interpreting the stories or the intentions of the writers with a skewed outlook.

 

People are certainly free to be miserable.

[djvang]

I think that if there was an episode like you describe I would be wondering how the writers were going to work their way back to Sheldon/Amy getting back together because I know that would be their ultimate intention.  Just like I know that if Leonard and Penny have an argument, their wedding will not be called off--even if they were to temporarily call it off.  In the end it would all be okay.

So in other words, since TPTB have made their "ultimate intention" clear and have thus already told everyone in advance how the story ends, all "drama" the rest of the way is essentially meaningless because as you say, in the end it will all be okay.

  So why is everyone constantly wailing and gnashing their teeth over the state of the ships when they already KNOW the ultimate outcome?  I fully expect that all the couples will break up at some point in the remaining 2+ years but TPTB have already slipped us the final chapter - all the current couples WILL live happily ever after. 

[phantagrae]

So in other words, since TPTB have made their "ultimate intention" clear and have thus already told everyone in advance how the story ends, all "drama" the rest of the way is essentially meaningless because as you say, in the end it will all be okay.

  So why is everyone constantly wailing and gnashing their teeth over the state of the ships when they already KNOW the ultimate outcome?  I fully expect that all the couples will break up at some point in the remaining 2+ years but TPTB have already slipped us the final chapter - all the current couples WILL live happily ever after.

I think that what's interesting is seeing how they'll get there. But seeing as this is a comedy and not a drama, and the writers are not stupid enough to pull a stunt like HIMYM did, there's nothing to be gained by unhappy endings.

We don't know what ups and downs may come, and that's what's interesting. But we know it will be funny and will end happily and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Nogravitasatall]

@Phanta. I'm entertained that not enjoying Sheldon and remarking on it equates to being miserable. A little bit of projection there P. And veiled insult again. The emotion I feel is more along the lines of prolonged disappointment. But it's a TV show. Lots of alternatives. Don't get so het up and dramatic. That's what I'm trying to do.

And I think... "Not watching the show wrong, but interpreting the stories or the intentions of the writers with a skewed outlook." ... actually parses to watching the show wrong. Maybe some linguist can correct me. But every body skews. Even you.

Still, it's a big show, quite grown up. It can cope with criticism and complaints. It really doesn't need you to leap to its defense, so reflexively, all the time.

I always book the show on iTunes. I'll watch the rest of the season as it comes in. I hope for good news for my particular interest. But I'm really enjoying Daredevil S1 right now...

Cheers.

And waiting for this to magically transport to Shipping Lanes, maybe.

[Chrismo]

I think that what's interesting is seeing how they'll get there. But seeing as this is a comedy and not a drama, and the writers are not stupid enough to pull a stunt like HIMYM did, there's nothing to be gained by unhappy endings.

We don't know what ups and downs may come, and that's what's interesting. But we know it will be funny and will end happily and there's nothing wrong with that.

The way HIMYM ended was predictable. It was the correct ending if you were an actual fan of the show. Ross and Rachel weren't married at the end of Friends. There is no guarantee for weddings, coitus or happy endings.

[phantagrae]

The way HIMYM ended was predictable. It was the correct ending if you were an actual fan of the show. Ross and Rachel weren't married at the end of Friends. There is no guarantee for weddings, coitus or happy endings.

So you say with your cynical eye, but I think that this is a different story than HIMYM or Friends. While those stories went a different way, those couples were different than the characters and couples on TBBT.

The way I see the storytelling, there are no major plot twists like permanent break-ups or any of the characters ending up alone. I don't think the writers would have spent so much time and energy getting the couples together in the first place--think of how much had to take place to get each of the couples together--if they planned to split them up and have them be alone in the end, especially since from the beginning we've seen how desperately the guys wanted to love and be loved. Well, Sheldon took a different path, but once he met Amy he was smitten, even if he didn't know it.

So I don't see any storytelling point or advantage in breaking people up and leaving them alone. Raj is the only one right now who is still in the process of developing a new relationship, but I think that as long as Laura Spencer is available, he will be with Emily because the writers seem to enjoy writing for her.

[phantagrae]

@Phanta. I'm entertained that not enjoying Sheldon and remarking on it equates to being miserable. A little bit of projection there P. And veiled insult again. The emotion I feel is more along the lines of prolonged disappointment. But it's a TV show. Lots of alternatives. Don't get so het up and dramatic. That's what I'm trying to do.

And I think... "Not watching the show wrong, but interpreting the stories or the intentions of the writers with a skewed outlook." ... actually parses to watching the show wrong. Maybe some linguist can correct me. But every body skews. Even you.

Still, it's a big show, quite grown up. It can cope with criticism and complaints. It really doesn't need you to leap to its defense, so reflexively, all the time.

I always book the show on iTunes. I'll watch the rest of the season as it comes in. I hope for good news for my particular interest. But I'm really enjoying Daredevil S1 right now...

Cheers.

And waiting for this to magically transport to Shipping Lanes, maybe.

Well, I say "miserable" because some folks seem to be griping and grumbling about the lack of Lenny or whatever and certainly sound miserable--they don't enjoy the show, they don't like this or that episode and they seem to equate it with their own ship being, as they see it, marginalized and they are talking about walking away from the show. Doesn't that sound miserable?

I'm not getting "het up and melodramatic"--I'm having a good time. It seems to me that the ones who are getting het up and melodramatic are those who predict doom and gloom for the show or for their favorite character/couple simply because they're impatient for whatever it is they want.

I would say that goes for anyone, even Shamy fans (remember all those who thought Sheldon had broken poor Amy's heart, or that Amy should break up with Sheldon, etc., etc.?)

When I talk about interpreting the writing with a skewed outlook, I mean apparent misinterpretation of the intent of the story. Like vasu assuming that Leonard must be lying about wanting Penny to take the audition, or people claiming that because Leonard and Penny aren't sitting around looking at bridal magazines means that they're not excited to get married, or because they have a spat over the money thing that it means that the writers are showing us that Penny is deceitful about her income, or they have nothing in common.

Yes, some may feel there is imbalance because their favorite character is not front and center, but I think that it doesn't mean that the character is being marginalized or that the writers don't know how to write funny scenes for that character--both claims having been made here. I think that looking at the bigger picture helps.

But, yes, everyone is free to watch anything else that may make them happier, but that doesn't mean that there isn't lots of happiness to be found here, which is why it's baffling to me to see so many complaints about episodes that don't seem to be as fire as some make them out to be.

But YMMV.

[Kasey]

So I don't see any storytelling point or advantage in breaking people up and leaving them alone.

 

Yeah but it does happen and it can happen whether you, I or anyone else cares.  Since HIMYM was brought up, there were many fans of the show that did not see any advantage to breaking up Barney and Robin yet that is exactly what they did.  Wanting and writers/TPTB doing it are two different things..

 

And sorry if this should be in the shipping thread...

[Chrismo]

Well, I say "miserable" because some folks seem to be griping and grumbling about the lack of Lenny or whatever and certainly sound miserable--they don't enjoy the show, they don't like this or that episode and they seem to equate it with their own ship being, as they see it, marginalized and they are talking about walking away from the show. Doesn't that sound miserable?

I'm not getting "het up and melodramatic"--I'm having a good time. It seems to me that the ones who are getting het up and melodramatic are those who predict doom and gloom for the show or for their favorite character/couple simply because they're impatient for whatever it is they want.

I would say that goes for anyone, even Shamy fans (remember all those who thought Sheldon had broken poor Amy's heart, or that Amy should break up with Sheldon, etc., etc.?).

shamy fans IMO have had an easy ride.Don't recall Amy's heart ever being broken. That's why it's easy for you to have a "good time". As I said before I don't want to be on here when Shamy actually have a real non-adolescent problem. They will have to grow out of the fort stage won't they?

[Tensor]

 

 

Not watching the show wrong, but interpreting the stories or the intentions of the writers with a skewed outlook.

 

 

 

That also sounds like they are watching the show wrong.   Unless you're saying skewed is correct.

[vasu]

Well, I say "miserable" because some folks seem to be griping and grumbling about the lack of Lenny or whatever and certainly sound miserable--they don't enjoy the show, they don't like this or that episode and they seem to equate it with their own ship being, as they see it, marginalized and they are talking about walking away from the show. Doesn't that sound miserable?

I'm not getting "het up and melodramatic"--I'm having a good time. It seems to me that the ones who are getting het up and melodramatic are those who predict doom and gloom for the show or for their favorite character/couple simply because they're impatient for whatever it is they want.

I would say that goes for anyone, even Shamy fans (remember all those who thought Sheldon had broken poor Amy's heart, or that Amy should break up with Sheldon, etc., etc.?)

When I talk about interpreting the writing with a skewed outlook, I mean apparent misinterpretation of the intent of the story. Like vasu assuming that Leonard must be lying about wanting Penny to take the audition, or people claiming that because Leonard and Penny aren't sitting around looking at bridal magazines means that they're not excited to get married, or because they have a spat over the money thing that it means that the writers are showing us that Penny is deceitful about her income, or they have nothing in common.

Yes, some may feel there is imbalance because their favorite character is not front and center, but I think that it doesn't mean that the character is being marginalized or that the writers don't know how to write funny scenes for that character--both claims having been made here. I think that looking at the bigger picture helps.

But, yes, everyone is free to watch anything else that may make them happier, but that doesn't mean that there isn't lots of happiness to be found here, which is why it's baffling to me to see so many complaints about episodes that don't seem to be as fire as some make them out to be.

But YMMV.

 

If I read some of your posts and find those ideas idiotic.... then can i say ... sure people can be idiots if they want....

 

as far as *misinterpretation*.... there is your interpretation and there is my interpretation...... there simply is no misinterpretation....

Edited April 14, 2015 by vasu

[Nogravitasatall]

@Phanta.

Last point. Disaffected <> miserable. People are disaffected with the show. That is reported by by you as people being miserable. Maybe reading about the disaffection makes other people miserable. I certainly enjoyed documenting my disaffection.

(harder than quitting smoking, this posting lark).

Let's let the fornication episode resume centre stage.

[vasu]

I think that what's interesting is seeing how they'll get there. But seeing as this is a comedy and not a drama, and the writers are not stupid enough to pull a stunt like HIMYM did, there's nothing to be gained by unhappy endings.

We don't know what ups and downs may come, and that's what's interesting. But we know it will be funny and will end happily and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

First of all the writers of HIMYM are not stupid..... they wanted to tell the story they always had in their mind...they told it...

 

it seems that u did not get the story/ending you probably were expecting....so probably u did not like it ( you seem to mention this point a lot on here).....

 

and unhappy endings for who... i thought the characters in that show got happy endings.......all the main characters got good ending....but probably u were expecting something else.....

 

and u say we know we know.......no we don't know....u r just assuming everything....unless u r a secret member of the bbt staff......

until then no one knows what is coming.....

Edited April 14, 2015 by vasu

[Chrismo]

First of all the writers of HIMYM are not stupid..... they wanted to tell the story they always had in their mind...they told it...

 

unhappy endings for who... i thought the characters in that show got happy endings.......

 

and u say we know we know.......no we don't know....u r just assuming everything....unless u r a secret member of the bbt staff......

until then no one knows what is coming.....

i never knew why people were shocked by the mothers death? Why else would he be telling their kids the story. In regards to happy endings you would think TBBT would end up with Penny pregnant based on the pilot. It seems there is no guarantee though how Shamy may turn out in the end.

[phantagrae]

@Phanta.

Last point. Disaffected <> miserable. People are disaffected with the show. That is reported by by you as people being miserable. Maybe reading about the disaffection makes other people miserable. I certainly enjoyed documenting my disaffection.

(harder than quitting smoking, this posting lark).

Let's let the fornication episode resume centre stage.

I'm only saying miserable because that's how people seem to be in their posts. If some of these posts represent happy comments, I'd hate to see truly miserable comments. Perhaps "unhappy" is a better term, but it's essentially the same issue.

[phantagrae]

First of all the writers of HIMYM are not stupid..... they wanted to tell the story they always had in their mind...they told it...

 

it seems that u did not get the story/ending you probably were expecting....so probably u did not like it ( you seem to mention this point a lot on here).....

 

and unhappy endings for who... i thought the characters in that show got happy endings.......all the main characters got good ending....but probably u were expecting something else.....

 

and u say we know we know.......no we don't know....u r just assuming everything....unless u r a secret member of the bbt staff......

until then no one knows what is coming.....

I never watched HIMYM so I didn't have any expectations. I didn't watch the finale. I'm going by the fan reaction that followed the finale. Do we know that was where that story was headed all along, or did the writers decide to do something different than what fans expected just to have a "BIG ENDING!"?

Some writers love the shocking or unexpected ending.

I don't think the TBBT writers don't appreciate a good shocker, but I don't see them wanting to break couples up just because something like that happened on some other show that was telling a different story.

As for Penny being pregnant at the end of the show, it wouldn't surprise me as a bookend to the pilot.

For Sheldon and Amy, there was no original prediction in the pilot, of course, but we do know that Sheldon has assessed Amy as being more like him than anyone else and we know that they love each other.

And that's true for the three established couples. They've each declared their love for each other and however long it may have taken each of them to say so, I don't remember any of them having reservations about their love.

I'm not worried.

[Tensor]

Do we know that was where that story was headed all along, or did the writers decide to do something different than what fans expected just to have a "BIG ENDING!"?

The writers always said they had the ending in mind, when they wrote the beginning. The kids part in the final was filmed in 2006, eight years before the end of the show. So they always knew how it was going to end, just not when as that was dependent on the whims of the viewers . What people were wrong unhappy skewed about was being led on to believe Barney and Robin were going to be together, and having the love of Ted's life killed off.

[meka3000]

as far as *misinterpretation*.... there is your interpretation and there is my interpretation...... there simply is no misinterpretation....

 

Except for when it actually is you misinterpreting things:

 

 

always afraid that Penny is going to dump him.....

rarely shows any kind of affection or care towards Leonard....

 

Leonard hasn't even shown that concern ONCE this season.

 

REALLY?  

-Her wanting to cheer him up by shopping for him

-offering to pay off Leonard's student loans

-talking Leonard back into doing body paint sex

-wanting to dance with no music with him when nobody was around in the prom episode

-getting him a best fiance ever frame to show she appreciated the car

-Convincing him that he is what she NEEDS to be happy in her life in their engagement scene.

-Standing up for him in front of the director even though she was on thin ice, something that DID get her fired; and she DIDN'T hold it against him.

-Willing to fake a proposal just to make him feel better about evening up their failed proposal score.

-Keeping EVERY sweet gesture of Leonard's in a box over the years, because "IT'S HIM".

 

And there's more, but I think I've proven you're clearly misinterpreting things.

 

I don't see the writers giving any good character stuff to Leoanard as long as he is with penny

and she is constantly looking for chances to belittle him

 

-Right coming up with a scientific theory isn't good character stuff.    Telling Sheldon that HE ALONE is the reason for him not moving in with Penny at this point; a point that brought Sheldon to tears, something no character in the series has done.  Him being able to talk Penny out of taking the Relationship test, because he feels it DOESN'T MATTER.  There's many more, but at this point; I'm shooting fish in a barrel.

-Again playful teasing is not belittling him.

[rachelshamyfan]

shamy fans IMO have had an easy ride.Don't recall Amy's heart ever being broken. That's why it's easy for you to have a "good time". As I said before I don't want to be on here when Shamy actually have a real non-adolescent problem. They will have to grow out of the fort stage won't they?

There is nothing wrong in shamy wanting to have a fort sleepover, they are basically doing stuff now that they didn't get allowed to do as kids, both of them grew up friendless and in the same episode Sheldon confessed that his brother and sister refused to let him in theirs

I think its cute and adorable, just like the cute shamy quirkiness

[vasu]

I never watched HIMYM so I didn't have any expectations. I didn't watch the finale. I'm going by the fan reaction that followed the finale. Do we know that was where that story was headed all along, or did the writers decide to do something different than what fans expected just to have a "BIG ENDING!"?

Some writers love the shocking or unexpected ending.

I don't think the TBBT writers don't appreciate a good shocker, but I don't see them wanting to break couples up just because something like that happened on some other show that was telling a different story.

I'm not worried.

 

Calling writers of tv show stupid without even watching it .....and just judging by fan reaction(from where internet??)..... is ridiculous ....imo......

 

and tensor has answered your other part about that show.....

 

and some shows have had positive endings happy endings....then u or i won't be saying the writers did this because it happened on some other show...........

 

u say some writers appreciate love shocking or unexpected ending....and u say bbt writers not doing that......these are the same writers who for *unexpected* endings are sending characters away in final episodes of many seasons....some of which have little significance on the story.....who made penny so drunk that she ending up almost doing raj in leonard's bed.......who knows what they have in store.....u might be right....but u might be wrong also......

 

why would anyone be worried....

Edited April 14, 2015 by vasu

[Nogravitasatall]

Posters Anonymous, here I come...

It doesn't matter how the show ends. It's the bits between the start and finish that matter and that's what they are selling every week. As evidence I point you to any story. Otherwise we would just read one page synopses. Lol.

I have a good idea of how they will finish up but I want the meal, not just the indigestion at the end. Heheh.

(must start drinking so I can stop posting)