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820 The Fortification Implementation (April 9)

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I caught this last night. One thing: If Penny makes all that, why hasn't she moved?

 

Why would she move?

 

And she really needs to work on her communication.

 

I think its a combination of that and learning about what SHOULD be talked about financially.  I don't think she's quite figured that out yet.  Remember in the Hookup Reverberation when Leonard went to ask Penny about him investing in the comic book store?  She didn't think that was a big deal.

 

She used to tell Leonard everything.

 

Really?  I don't remember her telling Leonard her fears about how she thought Leonard might grow bored of her in a relationship in The Bad Fish Paradigm.

 

Remember the little kitten and the hobbit on the couch and the first, drunken, kiss. And the ogre at the door. What happened?

 

Different time period and different set of circumstances.

 

 

 

Penny only goes to Leonard when all things fall apart. And most of the time it's when she takes advice from Sheldon (you would think she had learned her lesson by now.) 

 

There's only been one time in recent memory where she took advice from Sheldon, and when she quit her job Sheldon had NOTHING to do with her making that decision.

 

but always in the end they show that Leonard was right all along its just that the writers choose not to acknowledge it or penny.

 

Why do the writers need to spell this out and spoon feed their audience?

 

Making Leonard looks like he doesn't support her dreams.

 

Just like when he bought her that car so she wouldn't have to go back to working at the cheesecake factory. ;)

 

Remember what penny said to bernedette about all the downsides of acting, that's exactly what Leonard was getting at, but poor Leonard.

 

You don't think that wasn't a sign that some of what Leonard said got through to her?

 

Penny will never admit he was right even though she knows it. Always wanting Leonard not to see her as a failure or making bad decisions.

 

It's part of her insecurities, she still has them.  Just like Leonard has his own insecurities, they'll still be there.  Doesn't mean neither can't overcome them.

 

I hope he grows a pair one day and stand up to her and put Penny in her place or she is just going to keep walking all over him.

 

So Leonard needs to tell Penny how much of a stupid woman she is EVERY TIME she screws up?  THAT is your idea of "standing up to her"?  :icon_rolleyes: 

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Why would she move?

You mean other than climbing up three flights of stairs every day? Yeah, she must love that not to move when she has the money.

 

I think ... deal.

I agree with Nog, I think she needs to work on her communication. YMMV

 

Really?  I don't remember her telling Leonard her fears about how she thought Leonard might grow bored of her in a relationship in The Bad Fish Paradigm.

Nograv, you'd think that people would be aware of her telling him of her fears about getting married because they have nothing in common, earlier this year, because it't one of the few scenes they had alone together. Or, we could go with her telling him her problems with the car in season seven or that she has commitment problems, back in season six.

But yeah, I guess if you want to say an example from six years ago, when they had one date, is such a much better example than anything more recent, YMMV

 

Different time period and different set of circumstances.

"Bad Fish" and "Middle Earth" are only 11 episodes apart, and both are over six years ago. So if Nog's example is a different time and circumstance, so is your example.

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You mean other than climbing up three flights of stairs every day? Yeah, she must love that not to move when she has the money.

 

This was more of a rhetorical question.  Deep down we all know she's not moving any time in the near future.  Not until Leonard is fully moved out of Sheldon's apartment and until Sheldon is comfortable with the idea of Penny not being his neighbor.  One of those are things that Sheldon is working on fully coming to terms with.

 

 I agree with Nog, I think she needs to work on her communication. YMMV

 

I never said that wasn't part of her problems, I was trying to get across the fact that it's a combination of communication issues & figuring out what IS & ISN'T important to talk about regarding her & Leonard's future.

 

But yeah, I guess if you want to say an example from six years ago, when they had one date, is such a much better example than anything more recent, YMMV

"Bad Fish" and "Middle Earth" are only 11 episodes apart, and both are over six years ago. So if Nog's example is a different time and circumstance, so is your example.

 

I know, that was my point.  Nog said "she used to tell Leonard everything".- His example was from "Middle Earth".  My counterpoint to that is an example from that relative time span, to show that wasn't exactly the case.

Edited by meka3000

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@meka

Why should she move?

One of the factors implicit in the current set up is that Penny and Leonard have to stay put. Given that removing barriers to togetherness is one of the primary reasons for accepting a proposal of marriage and that she wants to wait for her brother's release before marriage there is no other particular reason why they don't move. She didn't say she wouldn't live with him. Leonard seems to be financially anchored to Sheldon to share rent. To fill in the blanks I think its reasonable to assume the couple stay put because of financial reasons and Sheldon. Staying put because of Sheldon is ridiculous. He is a grown man. And she and Leonard are in love. If Penny has twice Leonard's income then they have a combined income greater than Sheldon and Leonard. So there is no financial reason to stay. If living so closely to Sheldon is more attractive than living apart from him, for which there is clearly no impediment, then her commitment to Leonard becomes questionable. Why wait? What's so compelling that still they live apart?

Lets put the money conversation in context. She is going to marry the man. That allows for an expectation of a high level of disclosure of one's personal affairs to one's partner. She and Leonard obviously had different expectations. That misunderstanding led to an unnecessary argument and a poor outcome for the couple. Leonard was surprised by the belated disclosure and embarrassed by his lack of information, that had been withheld by Penny. It made him feel bad. Lets call that an injury. Penny was the agent of the injury - to the man she is going to marry. She should probably want to avoid that.

The argument, added to the fact they can afford to move, indicates they need to communicate better. If they want to stay fine, but they should talk about why they are they are staying. If her non-disclosure was also an attempt to delay the discussion, then that is detrimental to their relationship, because she is not being honest with THE MAN SHE IS GOING TO MARRY.

So she really should work on her communications. Or not mislead by omission. Someone will get hurt, and it might be the man she loves.

On the "she used to tell Leonard everything" you are just being literal and disregarding context. She discussed her financial problems with him before and hit him up for food, money and wi-fi, that he was happy to give. High level of disclosure there, previously. What happened? It could construe badly for her, if her aim is to marry Leonard.

(all done on my tiny phone)

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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This was more of a rhetorical question.

Didn't look like one to me. Now it looks like your moving the goalposts, and trying to tell me Why I feel this way is wrong. So, I'm out.

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Didn't look like one to me. Now it looks like your moving the goalposts, and trying to tell me Why I feel this way is wrong. So, I'm out.

 

I said it was a rhetorical question on my end, I didn't say I did a good job of making that clear.  I don't see where I said, why you feel the way you do is wrong.

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I said it was a rhetorical question on my end, I didn't say I did a good job of making that clear. I don't see where I said, why you feel the way you do is wrong.

I "feel" that your literal bent and inclination to combativeness might distract your correspondents from the very lucidity and rightness of your arguments. I might be wrong. But much here is more about "truthiness" rather than absolute truth. And if you get the gist of argument, why nitpick? <icon:rhetorical>.

Btw that question is clearly labelled " rhetorical". :)

Out.

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Staying put because of Sheldon is ridiculous. He is a grown man. And she and Leonard are in love.

 

That might be how you feel.  But Penny & Leonard STILL care about their friends well being.  They are not going to do something immediate when THEY KNOW that Sheldon can still be a flight risk.  But they did still work out a compromise to make a transition (the one night a week scenario, then gradually increase over time.

 

You might not like it, but I don't think Penny & Leonard have done ANYTHING in regards to moving (and how that effects Sheldon) that hasn't been 100% IN CHARACTER for both of them.

 

Lets put the money conversation in context. She is going to marry the man. That allows for an expectation of a high level of disclosure of one's personal affairs to one's partner. She and Leonard obviously had different expectations. That misunderstanding led to an unnecessary argument and a poor outcome for the couple. Leonard was surprised by the belated disclosure and embarrassed by his lack of information, that had been withheld by Penny. It made him feel bad. Lets call that an injury. Penny was the agent of the injury - to the man she is going to marry. She should probably want to avoid that.

 

I feel Leonard was more upset by HOW FAST she earned more than him, than he was by what information Penny did or didn't share.  Not saying she shouldn't have said anything, but that outcome was more about Leonard's bruised ego than anything that had to do with what Penny did or didn't share.

If they want to stay fine, but they should talk about why they are they are staying.

 

Why?  It's not like Leonard has said anything about wanting to move out of the apartment complex.  Just the apartment room that he currently occupies with Sheldon.  Both he & Penny sound like they are on the same page regarding that.

 

If her non-disclosure was also an attempt to delay the discussion, then that is detrimental to their relationship, because she is not being honest with THE MAN SHE IS GOING TO MARRY.

 

I don't think she saw it as that big of a deal to be honest.  See my Hookup Reverberation example above.

So she really should work on her communications. Or not mislead by omission. Someone will get hurt, and it might be the man she loves.

 

What makes you think she won't work on it over time, compared to any other issue she had worked on in the past?

On the "she used to tell Leonard everything" you are just being literal and disregarding context.

 

And you're not? I used an example to prove to you that she doesn't tell Leonard EVERYTHING.  You didn't specify that "Everything" meant everything to do with money.  If that was the case why use "Middle Earth" for your example?

 

She discussed her financial problems with him before and hit him up for food, money and wi-fi, that he was happy to give.  High level of disclosure there, previously. What happened?

 

The power shifted this season, she also mentioned in The Expedition Approximation that she knows that THIS is a touchy subject for him, so she's trying to tread carefully.  Which lead to Leonard taking that the wrong way, and them almost coming to blows.

 

My take was that she might of felt that "what Leonard doesn't know about this won't hurt him."  At least that's my take on the matter.

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And if you get the gist of argument, why nitpick? <icon:rhetorical>.

 

Because I'm not a mind reader, how do I know that you get the gist of what I'm trying to say?  Previously I was told I was moving the goalposts , but I didn't see it that way.  And if I did, it sure wasn't intentional on my part.

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I think I laid out two principles. 1, People in love strive to be together, 2. People in love strive not to harm each other. I don't think these principles are controversial and disagreeable. Penny, in this example, showed that she is not holding to these principles. I think she was remiss. Qualify away, but you shan't dissuade me.

Edit: And Sheldon is avowed to be a competent person, not a ward. If he were a friend he'd get out their way. Lol.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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Was that really Kevin Smith talking during the show?

 

According to Wikipedia and IMDb, yes. I can't check the episode credits right now, but I'm pretty sure it is indeed him.

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Was that really Kevin Smith talking during the show?

Yes there were many IG photos with him before the taping.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Why did Amy ask Sheldon to pass the salt, then put it on her food, when salt makes her retain water. 

Edited by Stephen Hawking

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7 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Why would Penny be investing in stocks and bonds, when she's got massive Credit Card debt?

To generate some income ?

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7 hours ago, joyceraye said:

To generate some income ?

The interest rate on Credit Cards is going to be higher, than the interest rate earned on savings, especially for someone with a poor credit rating, like Penny

The sensible thing, when you come into some money, is to first pay off your debts, then save.

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15 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

The interest rate on Credit Cards is going to be higher, than the interest rate earned on savings, especially for someone with a poor credit rating, like Penny

The sensible thing, when you come into some money, is to first pay off your debts, then save.

Yes, the sensible thing. We're talking about Penny. Perhaps she didn't confide in her 'guy' about her debt.

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On 6/3/2017 at 5:32 AM, Stephen Hawking said:

The interest rate on Credit Cards is going to be higher, than the interest rate earned on savings, especially for someone with a poor credit rating, like Penny

The sensible thing, when you come into some money, is to first pay off your debts, then save.

She might be referring to her company's mandatory investment program.

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57 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

She might be referring to her company's mandatory investment program.

Doesn't sound like it, given she has "a guy", who advised her to have "a diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds."

Also, she offers to help Leonard out with his debts, which indicates she has access to the money.

Edited by Stephen Hawking

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