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824 The Commitment Determination (May 7)

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Re-watching the car scene and Penny just looks so devastated honestly I feel like Penny can find someone better.

Based on him making one mistake with her?

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Re-watching the car scene and Penny just looks so devastated honestly I feel like Penny can find someone better.

Her track record appears she wouldn't.

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like Zack even if he didn't really challenge her on "intellectual level" he was still a nice guy

Edited by mysteryrose10

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I was just the fact he didn't challenge  her on intellectual level, he was in Marry's words dumb as a soup. 

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I was just the fact he didn't challenge  her on intellectual level, he was in Marry's words dumb as a soup. 

 

but atleast he did'nt seem the type to cheat or lie......unlike leonard....

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but atleast he did'nt seem the type to cheat or lie......unlike leonard....

 

There is no evidence upon which to base that assessment.  We don't know anything about Zack other than he's dumb.

 

Whatever complication has arisen with Leonard, he's always loved Penny, even after she rejected him.

 

She has learned to love him as she realized that the other guys she dated just weren't good enough for whatever individual reasons.

 

If she loves him, she can forgive him.  There's no death penalty for "cheating".  Even if he had actually slept with someone, if their love was strong enough, she could forgive him, if that's how the story was being told.  Many married couples survive infidelity.  You just have to have the depth within you.

 

If Penny cannot get past this, it's not Leonard's fault.  Yes, he should not have kissed that woman or let her kiss him or whatever.  He was wrong in that situation, even if there were mitigating circumstances.

But whether or not they survive this moment is not dependant upon Leonard, but upon Penny.

 

Is she strong enough and loving enough to forgive him?  Even though she's never cheated on Leonard, we know that she cheated on boyfriends in the past (she mentioned two brothers in her past), and even if those can be seen as "youthful indiscretions", they still show that there was a moment of weakness in her own past.

 

The question is whether or not their bond is strong enough to survive this.

I think it is, based on the story the writers seem to be telling.  It may take her a while to come to terms with it, thus delaying the wedding again, but I think the desire to forgive is probably there.

 

The act of forgiveness does not depend on the person who committed the offense, but upon the person who chooses whether or not to forgive.

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but atleast he did'nt seem the type to cheat or lie......unlike leonard....

 

It's all nice, until you have to lead him across the street because he wouldn't understand the purpose of traffic lights ;) And who knows?  Maybe he would be dumb and a cheater. As Phanta said, we don't know anything other about him. 

Everybody lies time to time, and I will not defend the kiss, it was wrong but Leonard forgive her many times, and stood by her side always when she was at worse, even when she was questioning their relationship over and over again. It's not so devastating, to be unforgivable IMO. And no, I don't think Penny can do better, she had a lot of time but always came back to him. Seems like she met her idea of ideal partner in him, even while as much as she, he's not perfect. 

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Forgiveness is a gift. Depending on the her depth of her love for Leonard, Penny is the giver or the withholder of this gift. When crunch time comes, what we have seen of her depth of feeling for him is extreme. We know the list: her enthusiasm toward him when first meeting; her elation upon finding Leslie Winkle was a short-lived thing; her sadness at him leaving for the North Pole...these are just from the first 2 seasons, before they were officially a couple.

A large part of me wishes it didn't happen. Another part wants to see them navigate this to the ending they (and we) deserve---a happy and together fade to black.

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I finally got to see the season finale yesterday. Work and real life have been getting in the way of my tv watching lately.

Sheldon/Amy: this actually makes sense to me. Amy is full of expectation on their 5 year anniversary. Sheldon has told her that he loves her and he seems happier than ever before with the relationship. They're making out and she thinks they're in this overwhelming state of ecstasy together, then she realizes while Sheldon is going through the motions, she's actually alone. He's a million miles away, having some argument in his head about whether or not to watch a show. After she left his place, I'm sure she probably started imagining what their sex life might be like: him going through the motions, but never really focused on her- only doing it because he loves her and wants to keep her in his life. This wouldn't be fair to either of them. One of the biggest turn offs is when the other person is like, "I'm not in the mood, but we can do it if you want." Yeah, no thanks.

She probably also started thinking back about all the times she's been disappointed. She's told him she would like flowers; he buys her a log, yet gets his mom flowers. He planned on leaving the planet with no thought to her or their relationship. She told him she would love for him to say nice things to her and he dismissed her revelation, telling her "trust me, you're happy." One year ago, Sheldon mocked the idea of marriage and children and left her without even a phone call to let her know he was laeving. All of these things and probably more went through her head before she told him that being his girlfriend was challenging emotionally and physically and that she's been patient with him. Amy doesn't know about the sweet way he spoke about her to Bernie, that he told Penny he actually does have urges, or that he bought a ring. The situation isn't as hopeless as Amy thinks, but she's probably trying to decide is she can sacrifice her emotional and physical needs without eventually falling out of love with him.

Leonard and Penny: I'm pretty mad at the writers about this! Seriously, they pull "Leonard cheated" out of a hat like a messed up magic trick? They took a great memory, where Leonard had this huge accomplishment, and turned it into a negative that makes me sick. Why couldn't they have had them trying to plan the wedding, and realizing once again that the have little in common because the want completely different things? Or had Leonard confront Penny about her secrecy concerning her income? Why make Leonard cheat on the girl of his dreams? It makes no sense at all. It was a cheap, easy writer's trick that belongs on a soap opera. I'll watch to see how it plays out, but I hope it becomes clear that the girl jumped on Leonard and he pushed her off.

Oh, and one more thing that upset me about this season- not one appearance by Cinnamon!

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I finally got to see the season finale yesterday. Work and real life have been getting in the way of my tv watching lately.

Sheldon/Amy: this actually makes sense to me. Amy is full of expectation on their 5 year anniversary. Sheldon has told her that he loves her and he seems happier than ever before with the relationship. They're making out and she thinks they're in this overwhelming state of ecstasy together, then she realizes while Sheldon is going through the motions, she's actually alone. He's a million miles away, having some argument in his head about whether or not to watch a show. After she left his place, I'm sure she probably started imagining what their sex life might be like: him going through the motions, but never really focused on her- only doing it because he loves her and wants to keep her in his life. This wouldn't be fair to either of them. One of the biggest turn offs is when the other person is like, "I'm not in the mood, but we can do it if you want." Yeah, no thanks.

She probably also started thinking back about all the times she's been disappointed. She's told him she would like flowers; he buys her a log, yet gets his mom flowers. He planned on leaving the planet with no thought to her or their relationship. She told him she would love for him to say nice things to her and he dismissed her revelation, telling her "trust me, you're happy." One year ago, Sheldon mocked the idea of marriage and children and left her without even a phone call to let her know he was laeving. All of these things and probably more went through her head before she told him that being his girlfriend was challenging emotionally and physically and that she's been patient with him. Amy doesn't know about the sweet way he spoke about her to Bernie, that he told Penny he actually does have urges, or that he bought a ring. The situation isn't as hopeless as Amy thinks, but she's probably trying to decide is she can sacrifice her emotional and physical needs without eventually falling out of love with him.

Leonard and Penny: I'm pretty mad at the writers about this! Seriously, they pull "Leonard cheated" out of a hat like a messed up magic trick? They took a great memory, where Leonard had this huge accomplishment, and turned it into a negative that makes me sick. Why couldn't they have had them trying to plan the wedding, and realizing once again that the have little in common because the want completely different things? Or had Leonard confront Penny about her secrecy concerning her income? Why make Leonard cheat on the girl of his dreams? It makes no sense at all. It was a cheap, easy writer's trick that belongs on a soap opera. I'll watch to see how it plays out, but I hope it becomes clear that the girl jumped on Leonard and he pushed her off.

Oh, and one more thing that upset me about this season- not one appearance by Cinnamon!

 

I'm in agreement with Sheldon and Amy and would have cliked like but for Leonard and Penny I not judging that story line yet. I'd like to see were this goes (if anywhere).

 

As for Cinnamon, I don't miss it a bit.

Edited by djsurrey

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I really am wondering about the long term ramifications of Leonard's actions with regard to Penny. One thing Penny thought she could count on was Leonard. I recently watched 6.24 and she really figured he would not do something stupid while he was away. Leonard has had a wish to be considered a bit more wild. Something more exciting than a bran muffin that is good for you. Perhaps he is going to start to regret that. Especially if Penny starts to fall apart and they both blame him. It could get ugly.

 

 

Leonard: Yeah. And I’m a little worried because things between us have been so great, and I’d hate to do anything that screws that up.

Penny: Oh, sweetie, if you’re gonna screw things up, it’s gonna be while you’re here, not while you’re away.

 

It seems the writers just could not leave that one alone.

Edited by djsurrey
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That is what bothers me most about Leonard's "infidelity" , and I say it between quotation marks because I don't know exactly what happened. It seems very OOC for me. Leonard would make any kind of mistake, but for me at least it was always implied that he'd never be unfaithful to her, and to "make" him do that seems cheap, petty and lazy writing.

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That is what bothers me most about Leonard's "infidelity" , and I say it between quotation marks because I don't know exactly what happened. It seems very OOC for me. Leonard would make any kind of mistake, but for me at least it was always implied that he'd never be unfaithful to her, and to "make" him do that seems cheap, petty and lazy writing.

 

Like I said in another thread I think him being slow to put on the brakes with female attention HAS BEEN a consistent problem for him in the past (to varying degrees).

 

I can accept this story twist (while still not being 100% happy with it), as long as it's revealed that he didn't initiate the kiss and that his drunken state is the reason for him not stopping the kiss right away.  If we find out that he did initiate it, THEN I'm going to be annoyed.

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I just watched the scene again, and when he described how it wasn't even very good, his description was "She was a smoker, I'd just been seasick"

 

Given Leonard's character, I doubt thinking about kissing someone would be on his to do list if he was feeling under the weather.  Combine that with the alcohol and how things were all "CRAZY", I could EASILY see Leonard being even slower on the stopping of someone kissing him.

 

TBH I think the biggest culprit of this is the writing.  They wanted to tell us about something that he had done that MIGHT HAVE BEEN COMPLICATED, but painted the situation in such broad strokes dialogue wise.  This is one situation that would've benefited from seeing play out then simply being described in dialogue, in vague details.

 

Hopefully we get a flashback that gives a more nuanced interpretation in season 9.

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I have finally seen this episode and i'm not totally happy about the way it goes.

 

I don't find it awkward what's going on between Sheldon and Amy because even if Sheldon said to Amy that he loves her, he's still Sheldon and he will never change totally the way he is and the way he sees things. But at the end of the episode i was very sad for him. And at the end when i realized the episode was over i really screamed "What ? No way ! i want to know" out loud ^^ Hoppefully i was alone.

 

For the Penny/Leonard story i'm not really happy. We all know for long that Penny is afraid about commitment and now she wants to get married … in Vegas the same place she has been married to Zack without even realizing she was married because she thought Vegas was not for real … To me it doesn't seem like something she would do. And Leonard who has shown some jealousy in the past would go in the place she married another one before to marry her ? Not sure.

And this cheating thing about Leonard is a little bit disturbing ! Of course he kissed another girl when he was with Prya but he wasn't as much in love with her as he is with Penny. 

But if he really did this, it's not surprising that he said that at that moment, he's a kind of expert to say the wrong thing at the wrong time with Penny without even realizing it sometimes.

 

The whole Bernadette-Howard-Stuart is not funny any more for me. At the beginning it was fun but now it's too long. 

 

And i don't really like the character Emily. I'm happy that Raj finally got a women (even if the boy's difficulties to find girls was a big part of the fun) but i don't find that they are a nice couple.

 

Anyway, i can't wait to see what's going to happen in the next season. 

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Of course he kissed another girl when he was with Prya but he wasn't as much in love with her as he is with Penny.

 

I don't think you can rate cheating, based on how much you are in love with the person you are cheating on.

Edited by Stephen Hawking
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I agree with those unhappy with the L/P car scene. I also think Leonard was way OOC. The writers imo made a huge mistake. If they do not fix it early then I will be done with the show because it seems like they have destroyed the trust between L/P. Also, they have turned Leonard from someone to pull for into whinny and stupid jerk.

The L/P relationship has been the heart of the show and one of the main reasons I got into it.

Edited by Oldnavy
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Yes, we know that he is capable of cheating because he did so to Priya with Alice, and even if it is very cynical of me to say so, I really didn't mind. Probably because I, along with countless others hated Priya's guts and were happy when Leonard's relationship with her ended. That being said I always thought that Penny was the love of Leonard's life , and if you can cheat on the love of your life, it doesn't speak to well of you. I want to see how it plays out next season.

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Yes, we know that he is capable of cheating because he did so to Priya with Alice, and even if it is very cynical of me to say so, I really didn't mind. Probably because I, along with countless others hated Priya's guts and were happy when Leonard's relationship with her ended. That being said I always thought that Penny was the love of Leonard's life , and if you can cheat on the love of your life, it doesn't speak to well of you. I want to see how it plays out next season.

 

He does love Penny. He had a lapse in judgment. It is not as though he developed a pattern of lies to cover on going infidelity.

 

Well not as far as we know.

 

_______

edit

Everything about Leonard in  7.1 seemed to be somewhat out of character. I would have expected he would be working hard. We only saw him partying. When Penny called him she was surprised by the party music and by the fact he was apparently having a grate time.

Edited by djsurrey
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and even if it is very cynical of me to say so, I really didn't mind. Probably because I, along with countless others hated Priya's guts and were happy when Leonard's relationship with her ended.

 

Whether we hate or love someone, it doesn't excuse their partner cheating on them.

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This is off topic, but I've been wondering about the time frame for the beginning of season 9. Will the writers continue the story as the next day or jump ahead several months? It looks like Kaley is growing out her hair, so by the filming of season 9 her hair will be noticeably longer. I don't know if they would take this into consideration. Am I just imagining that her hair is already quite a bit longer than when she first cut it? I hate to say it, but I kinda hope she doesn't cut it again. She's gorgeous no matter what, but I prefer the longer hair on her.

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Yes, Stephen Hawking, obviously. That's why I said that it was very cynical of me.


Well... Rajamon, not to state the obvious but if they decide to continue the story as if no time had passed, she could always cut it, right?

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