Episodes 824 The Commitment Determination (May 7)

[Tensor]

by that logic penny should not also be concerned about the kissing because they were not engaged at that time....and after that he declared his *love* for her so many times and proposed to her...

 

So you're equating someone THINKING about breaking up with their Significant other because they are unsure of their feelings,  with someone having physical, sexual contact with another person while in a relationship, after proposing, and declaring they loved the person they are in a relationship with.   I think you're going to find that most people don't equate the two.  

[phantagrae]

HATED it. Absolutely HATED it.

 

There were many ways they could have ended on a cliffhanger and still given the audience (who just like Amy Farrah Fowler have been damn patient for a lot of years while emotionally investing in these characters) at least one or two moments of happy ending here or there.

 

They could have ended the show with Sheldon holding a ring without a teary soap opera breakup that came out of the clear blue. They could also have ended it with an equally nervous and adorable Leonard and Penny standing at the alter in Vegas unsure of whether they were going to go through with it or not. This sudden OOC "confession" that was retconned in from seasons back just for shock value was completely ridiculous and unnecessary.

 

Instead, they manufactured a bunch of fake dramas just for the sake of it. What is more, none of them felt remotely realistic because none of them felt true to the characters or the story. It was just a bunch of bad writing IMO. (Though I will add that all of the actors did a beautiful job with the material they were given. That was at least one good thing I can say.)

 

I totally disagree with your assessment of the stories.  I think that the Leonard thing came out of left field, I think it was, in fact, plausible.  Bad things can happen when you drink too much (just ask Penny about that wedding chapel).  Bad judgment, lowered inhibitions.  People do stupid things when they're drunk.  And Leonard was feeling more sure of himself because of participating in a prestigious project.  All those ingredients together can make for giving in to a questionable situation.

And I can see him regretting it and not getting around to confessing it until he felt he had to.  I think it was better for him to say it now than for it to somehow come up 10 years from now, as if it was a secret worth guarding.

 

I think people get too hung up on the idea of "DRAMA!!!"  To me, it looked like addressing some relationship issues and commitment issues for all the couples (even between H/B and Stuart.)

 

To me it all felt organic.  While we may not have known about Leonard's secret, it was completely possible that he might have done that.

Many people have wondered if Raj and Emily could stay together with their very different tastes, and we still don't know if they will, if Raj will summon the courage to break up with her, if that's what he thinks needs to happen, or if they'll have a better conversation about it and come to an understanding.

 

I also think the Shamy stuff was also fitting.  Though they've made progress, Amy has had frustrating moments with Sheldon and it may have all piled up on her with such a moment of frustration on their anniversary.  It may be that that distractedness he so often has when they're together just felt that much more annoying when it happened in that moment on that day.  Makes all the rest of it stick out more than the good stuff.

 

I think it was well written and well done.

[Tensor]

 

 

I think it was well written and well done.

 

Doesn't mean it was, or that other may not think something different.

[stardustmelody]

I totally disagree with your assessment of the stories.  I think that the Leonard thing came out of left field, I think it was, in fact, plausible.  Bad things can happen when you drink too much (just ask Penny about that wedding chapel).  Bad judgment, lowered inhibitions.  People do stupid things when they're drunk.  And Leonard was feeling more sure of himself because of participating in a prestigious project.  All those ingredients together can make for giving in to a questionable situation.

And I can see him regretting it and not getting around to confessing it until he felt he had to.  I think it was better for him to say it now than for it to somehow come up 10 years from now, as if it was a secret worth guarding.

 

I think people get too hung up on the idea of "DRAMA!!!"  To me, it looked like addressing some relationship issues and commitment issues for all the couples (even between H/B and Stuart.)

 

To me it all felt organic.  While we may not have known about Leonard's secret, it was completely possible that he might have done that.

Many people have wondered if Raj and Emily could stay together with their very different tastes, and we still don't know if they will, if Raj will summon the courage to break up with her, if that's what he thinks needs to happen, or if they'll have a better conversation about it and come to an understanding.

 

I also think the Shamy stuff was also fitting.  Though they've made progress, Amy has had frustrating moments with Sheldon and it may have all piled up on her with such a moment of frustration on their anniversary.  It may be that that distractedness he so often has when they're together just felt that much more annoying when it happened in that moment on that day.  Makes all the rest of it stick out more than the good stuff.

 

I think it was well written and well done.

 

 

Honestly it is the timing that is the real issue here.  If Leonard had made his confession at the premiere in S7, that would have created a little drama  and then been addressed and then would have been appropriate and more in keeping with the Leonard everyone has grown to know over the years, but the writers waiting until he is on his way to elope to mention it...it created far too much silly drama and becomes more like a soap opera instead of a comedy show that is addressing a character growth issue.

 

Same with Shamy.  If Amy had stepped back in premiere of S8, we would have applauded her.   We would have felt she had a right to step back and evaluate whether this man-child could ever return the same depth of love that she felt for him and quit being a flight risk.   But instead she saw tremendous growthin Sheldon...saw him tell her he loves her, show her far more affection than she had seen ever in their relationship, and boom...she suddenly steps back now?   It really is all due to timing.  Again, the drama comes across as a cheap cop out.   

 

I agree the character growth has always needed to happen here , on both couples,  and growth is painful, but there were better opportunities to address the things the way they did in this episode.  Now it seems cheap and like you are watching a daytime soap.   Not a primetime comedy show.   

 

I honestly find the episode poor quality in many other ways (as Koops mentioned, poor editing and many other issues) that made it even more annoying than the story.  But the writing was a cheap way to buy drama, a cliffhanger, and to buy the writers time to try and not have to address change which they know has to happen in order to survive more seasons but they have been reluctant to face.  

 

 A lot will depend on how they address things in Season 9 as to how to judge this episode to be honest.   If they rush it like they did Sheldon's return...it will be a huge disappointment.  But likewise if we end up with a good part of a season just focused on the fallout from this with a lot of drama next season when it is a comedy genre show, that will be just as bad.   Both of these arcs really need to be addressed and ended by the end of the third episode and then move on.  

 

As Tmp suggested, they could mix up character interactions more or bring back family more or do all kinds of things to create more interest.   We don't need drama to constantly keep the show interesting.   It is a comedy genre.   

[meka3000]

Honestly it is the timing that is the real issue here.  If Leonard had made his confession at the premiere in S7, that would have created a little drama  and then been addressed and then would have been appropriate and more in keeping with the Leonard everyone has grown to know over the years, but the writers waiting until he is on his way to elope to mention it...it created far too much silly drama and becomes more like a soap opera instead of a comedy show that is addressing a character growth issue.

 

But don't you think Leonard being reluctant to telling her at that time is because the last time she saw him, she had just gotten to the point where she can say "I love you" on her own?  The reason she had trouble with that is due to being burned in the past by alleged cheaters.  So why would Leonard want Penny to see him in that light, after what she had confessed to him?

 

Same with Shamy.  If Amy had stepped back in premiere of S8, we would have applauded her.   We would have felt she had a right to step back and evaluate whether this man-child could ever return the same depth of love that she felt for him and quit being a flight risk.   But instead she saw tremendous growthin Sheldon...saw him tell her he loves her, show her far more affection than she had seen ever in their relationship, and boom...she suddenly steps back now?

 

"You got an 8.2 trust me you're happy.", not letting her have a panic attack on his bed, filling out a mars app without telling her OR considering her feelings, and HIM not considering what their fifth anniversary means to her?

 

While YES Sheldon has done some great things this season in regards to his relationship with Amy, lets not kid ourselves into thinking that Amy hasn't been put through the ringer this year.

[phantagrae]

Doesn't mean it was, or that other may not think something different.

Or that it wasn't.

[Monke.Head]

Probably the best of S8 for me.  

 

In terms of the narrative direction, for me it is good to see Pennard moving forward, however slowly it has become. It is still Penny being the more dominant character in the relationship. She leads in almost every situations: suggested the Vegas trip, yelling back at Sheldon and taking charge in the 4 min chat in the car. Not that it should change or something, just observing the pattern continues. And the kiss during Nth Sea, like many have said, out of character. 

 

Hopefully Stu can finally move out and Howardette can open a new chapter in their life together. There has been no movement in their story, cept for the tragedy that it was. 

 

I really want Raj and Emily to go further, but again I dont think the graveyard scene pushes it far enough. Not sure why they (writers/directors/producers) placed Raj's confession of love so it comes off just as a way of hiding his own security, it really dilutes the whole thing, why down plays it?

 

Now, the episode was bracketed by Shamy. Really appreciate and enjoy the 'matter-of-fact' way of starting the episode with them kissing. It is as natural as seeing any of the characters walking up the stairs, or sitting around in Caltech cafeteria, or the cheesecake shop (when will they visit that place again?), but it is as rare as, well, Sheldon kissing Amy. As soon as I saw Gollum, I knew a ring was involved and couldn't wait to see, and when I did, still couldn't help but gasp. The way Jim took his time for the final scene was great dramatic endeavour which really paid off. I am not usually a Shamy fan, but I look forward to the development further on. 

 

What I do know is, I hate the lack of interaction between the storylines.  It has happened repeatedly this season, including just last week.  The show is starting to feel like two different series:  L/P/S/A and R/H/B.  Please, writers, once you resolve these cliffhangers, can we mix it up a little more?  

 

Absolutely. Neither the storylines nor the characters don't intersect no more. It is like 3 separate, parallel stories. And I really don't get why the switching of scenes between the grave yard and the Wolowitz' house. Sure, both scenes are about difficult conversations, but switching adds nothing to it for the TV audience, and I really doubt they shoot that scene by scene for the live audience. 

 

 Bazinga. 

[CentralPerk]

Well. I am still upset.

I knew what would happen in this episode because I was not spoiler free. I was very disappointed.

 

About Lenny, I understand Leonard wants to say that to Penny before they got married, but it is obvious it was not the right time. They can't marry right now in Vegas with this "mood killer". And finally for the best, because they will have a better wedding later I think.

I understand Penny is upset but it's just a kiss, so not a big deal (IMO). A mistake yes, but not so big. He was drunk, and stopped the kiss, and he had not initiate it.

 

About Shamy, as I said before in the shamy thread, I really don't understand why Amy wants a break right now after all the progress in this season. I'm angry with the writers for that.

Amy could have wanted a break before this season, but not in this season. Even if I understand she is upset that Sheldon speaks about Flash during make-out. But in a relationship where there is no insecurities, the partner can find it inappropriate but with humor. I thought Amy was not at all worried since the "I love you" and all the physical progress.

 

Even if, at the end, we know Sheldon wanted to propose to Amy, it is still sad because now we don't really know when. And sad she chose to take a break in at this point before that happen.

The Writers are very machiavellian. I know they must find ideas for at least 2 seasons, but with the course of the season 8 this end was not logical.

[Oldnavy]

After watching the episode again, I like it even less. Usually it is the opposite. I begin to like the episode better the second time around but this time it got worse and it was the L/P story that I really did not like. It ranks with the season four finale as the worst ever. Leonard just seems to have become less pleasant and sometimes just dumb. I agree with Stardust, I think they could have found a better way to slow up the wedding of L/P without having Leonard look so stupid. The part when he takes the produce into the petting zoo is another example of dumb Leonard, it was not really funny, just stupid.

 

If Leonard was only kissing that woman on the boat in the North Sea and that was all then I think that this will be overcome. As stated by others, Penny has had her share of dumb acts while drunk so if this was just a one time thing by Leonard then they will be able to move on, but I do not see how they will be getting married in Vegas right then. Leonard's confession I think kills that for now. At least that was the impression that I got from Penny at the end.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Oldnavy

[dana1010]

I can't believe they referenced Smallville. I had a feeling they would because of Bill Prady's tweet many many moons ago. Smallville is my all time favorite tv show and it makes me so happy that they referenced it. Sheldon, like me had to wait 10 seasons to see Superman fly. This show has referenced all of my obsessions. I think the writers secretly stalk me.

[Superlovelexi]

Wow that was so emotional.  Just finished the episode  So sad.  Even though I had a feeling this break up was coming, because I read spoilers before the finale in order to prepare myself for the heartbreak of this I adore SHAMY they are my favorite relationship on TV right now, but I didn't know about the ring so that made me excited again :D

 

Because I just know that Sheldon will finally have too woo Amy back next season and hopefully he'll propose to her and they will finally be on road to getting married themselves, even better if the proposal happens in the premiere but if they wait til Christmas that be cool too because we know how much Sheldon hated Christmas in the past, so for him to give her a wedding ring as a Christmas present would be like the most perfect gift ever and really show how Amy has made such a difference in his life.  I know he loves her, but now Shelly needs to start really showing her that.  Maybe even sing her a song that be so romantic.  I know this isnt the end for them.  I just hope they don't wait too long next season to put things right again, ugh its going be torture waiting all summer for the show to come back, but the ring gives me hope for the future even though Its heartbreaking to have to wait all summer not knowing if/when they will reunite them.  UGH!!

 

 

Also hey did anyone else catch  the GOLLUM reference here.  Awhile back Sheldon during one of their yearly anniversary status meetings, Sheldon picked the name Gollum as his pet name for Amy.  So him talking to the Gollum stature is kind of a metaphor for what he really wish he could have said to her in person.  "Well Gollum, you're an expert on rings, what do i do with this one?"  Amy is Gollum and that ring better end up on her finger or so help me SHAMY fans WE SHOULD RIOT as if it were the WALKING DEAD! lol

 

The kiss at the beggining of the episode was so nice that I just knew by the end of it they'd be in trouble.  But I love that Sheldon let his hand linger on Amy's leg and actually tried to keep making out with her.  Amy did sort of ruin the moment.  Its tough on hand I think she should stop trying to push him to do things he isn't ready for and make him so uncomfortable just because she is tired of waiting, and she should know by no that Sheldon has changed a lot for her in so many ways I mean there was a time he didn't want any physical contact with anyone whatsoever and now they are MAKING OUT in his spot no less I mean thats HUGE CHANGE!  He said he loved her before she did, he even asked her to be his girlfriend so its not like he hasn't shown he cares.  He took care of her while she was sick and bought her nice gifts.  But Amy has a point.  She has waited five years and Sheldon still doesn't seem to get it that not only does she want more physical affection its really the EMOTIONAL consideration for her feelings that he doesn't seem to get yet.  He should know that talking about the Flash during a make-out session isn't appropriate, but he doesn't get it and whats worse he still wouldn't just apologize like he apologize to Leonard and Penny for upsetting them over all the wedding talk, he still wanted to act like it was all Amy's fault and she shouldn't be upset, but he was WRONG!  He needs to stop being so self-center and I hope this time apart will force him to realize how much he misses her and needs her in his life and actually actively try to woo her back next season.  Not just with a ring thats a nice gift, but what Amy really needs is more Kindness and consideration from him.  He needs to show her that he is willing to CHANGE! I know a lot of people don't want Sheldon to change, people think he should have to change just to be with her, but everyone changes, no matter what every single day we are changing rather we like it or not!  And if he keeps acting this way he is going end up alone and miserable and lose the best girlfriend he's ever going to have cause Amy rocks and she deserves everything from him, mind, body and heart and he better give it to her!! No more excuses. Because Amy may even find another boyfriend next season, ugh I don't even want to go there, but I bet Stuart would take her out again he is always acting desperate for woman's attention anyway.  Amy may decide to try moving on from him and then Sheldon's jealous side will come out again I bet.  That can sometimes be really funny, but it could also just make him look like an even bigger jerk.  But Amy needs to also realize that there is more that Sheldon does care about her and just because he refuses to have sex yet and says dumb insensitive things to her, she must know he doesn't mean to hurt her feelings when he says stupid stuff.  And I'm not sure pressuring him to go further physically is right at all, because even though most couples would have done a lot more a LOT sooner, Sheldon isn't like most guys and if the shoe where on the other foot and a guy was pressuring a girl to have sex with him before marriage or before she was ready people would think he was a total jerk for it, so just because Sheldon is a guy doesn't mean Amy can demand he give her it all before he is ready too cause if he did then he wouldn't enjoy it and likely neither would she so it makes no sense.  He does love her though, so hopefully he will be ready by end of next season to either marry her or sleep with her or both cause the last thing I want to see is Sheldon end up reverting back to the annoying robot man he was in earlier seasons and lose all the progress he's made or worst end up getting so drunk one night cause he misses her so much that he sleeps with some random girl he barely knows and ruins his virgin status with anyone that isn't his true love Amy.  But I have faith that it will all work itself out next season, and they will get back together and be even better for it when they do. 

 

Now on to Penny and Leonard's relationship!  I am really upset about it.   I hate the idea that they are going run off and get married in Vegas without any of their friends there to support them and we may not even get to see it.  They will just show up next season already married after their trip that is going suck hard core.  We've waited so long we deserve to see them say I dos.  WTF!!!  I hope something happens and they come back next season and we find out Penny changed her mind at the alter because she was still pissed about Leonard's confession and decides she can't do it right now.  Leonard was so dumb for telling her that right then, I mean seriously that is just asking for her to leave you at the alter, you tell her you cheated on her on the way to get married!  I wanted to slap him so hard right then I mean who does that!!  IDIOT its like when he told Priya he slept with Alice, or when he found out about Raj and Penny almost hooking up.   I mean that was like he was sabotaging it and rightfully so because getting married in vegas is dumb!!  They already did that with Penny and Zac.  How can Leonard even think of getting married without his best man SHELDON who really should be there by his side on that special day and get to say some hilariously funny, but heartfelt speech at their reception dinner.   I will continue to hold out hope that next season will start and they will try to make us think Penny and Leonard went through with it at first, then reveal they didn't and decide to wait.  But if they do start the season off married, they better at least flashback to show us them saying heartfelt I dos or I'm going be like this was a total rip off and all that drama over them getting together for pretty much no real pay off other than to watch them be together, but we've been watching them be together for years now.  I wanted to watch them actually get married, see Penny in a real wedding dress with LONG HAIR and see Leonard in a Tux or even better in his Frodo costume from season one when they had their first kiss at Halloween.   A costume themed wedding with all their friends in attendance would be adorable and a lot more fun than a lame one by themselves in Vegas.  SO fingers crossed it doesn't happen.

 

 

Now on to Raj and Emily.  I felt so confused about that.  First off I don't know why they have to keep making Emily act so creepy its not even necessary or that funny anymore.   I mean sex in a cemetary that is just disrespectful to the families of those dead people who would not want people screwing each other on top of graves they paid for!  I mean WTF!  I like Emily a lot, but it clearly was making Raj very uncomfortable and she should have realized that and just took him home or out to a nice restaurant like he suggested.  She is almost as clueless as Sheldon I mean she has to know that most people aren't going to enjoy all this creepy stuff she's super into and we haven't even see her that much this season so its just so weird that they had to try to make it so awkward all of sudden and Raj wanting to seriously break up with her.  He only didn't out of fear of being alone not because he really wanted to stay how sad.  That doesn't bode well for their future. I hope she figures him out and stops trying to creep him out so much or scare him.  Raj use to not even be able to talk to girls and now he finally has a girlfriend and they are ruining it by making her act borderline psycho.  I mean always talking about wanting to murder people and sex in cemetaries, I mean what's next is she going go full necrophilia on him and want to have a threesome with a dead corpse next I mean GROSS!  I don't mind Emily being into creepy things, but there is a line you just don't cross and that would be it for me, and I think for Raj too, plus I mean if she really loves him why would she even want him to be so scared of her all the time it makes no sense.  I hope they work it all out next season though cause I really want Raj to be happy. 

 

As for Stuart/Howard/Bernadette break up glad they couldn't go through with it. I hope when Stuart finally moves out he does so on his own desire to after realizing he's overstayed his welcome and finds someone new to be with.  Howard and Bernadette should realize he's just lonely and will say anything to keep from being alone again, so if they really want to get rid of him they should find him a new girlfriend.  But I'm afraid now that SHeldon and Amy just broke up they may try to push Stuart to move in with Amy and if that happens Sheldon has my permission to go back to torturing Howard about being an engineer because I mean come on Amy and Stuart don't belong together no way no how.  That would just be selfish on their part to get rid of Stuart.  Find Stuart someone nice and new who loves comics and leave Amy out of it as Sheldon would say "She's Not for You!"  

 

Anyway, the finale was a mix bag of some humourous moments mixed with total fear that at any minute everyone's lives would be turned completely upside down.  I want changes, but not too much change all at once so I'm glad at least not everyone broke up only one couple did and we still don't know about the wedding situation so we'll just have to wait and see.  But yeah not my favorite finale at all, but it could have been worse.  I'll still watch it one more time at least.

·

 

 

 

[Itwasdestined]

Well, that hurt[emoji22].

Haven't watched whole episode yet. Just watched Lenny in car and the Shamy breakup to see if everyone was overreacting as usual but.....well that hurt. Felt like I was watching a final season episode of Greys Anatomy rather than a comedy. I don't mind a bit of drama in this show but that was just....wow- way too serious.

In Season 3 breakup, Penny really hurt Leonard. This was almost a complete role reversal. I was shattered for Penny and really felt like in the season 3 episode, Kaley really sold the pain beautifully. I'm not shattered by the actual event - I honestly think it was just some "harmless" drunk kissing ( although you could tell it was not harmless to Penny) - but I really hated the whole concept of this out of the blue betrayal reveal 2 years after the event. Writers seemed to just be clutching at straws for the sake of drama and took it further than it needed to be. I would have happily accepted a story of "she grabbed me unawares and I should have stopped her quicker it I was a bit drunk and dazed but when I realized how this would have affected you I pushed her away and I should have told you when I got back but you were so happy to see me and I just never found the right time until this guy vasu told me I was pathetic so I decided to tell you please don't hate me I love you so much"

But this version hurt.

I'm not a defeatist so I still think it will be resolved next season and the wedding will eventually happen but....

I'm also not a Leonard apologist, as much as I love the guy or a Penny apologist as much as I love her.

I've said this before quite recently after the taping report I think. I don't think it was completely out of character for Leonard. The secret keeping yes. The actual stupid action no. Leonard is no saint in this show. Neither is Penny. She can be a real biatch sometimes but one thing she is 100% strong on is fidelity. So I can't agree with those who are convinced Penny is going to open up Season 9 with a confession like Leonard's.

While I'm not saying Leonard is a cheat ( Alice was a near miss - possibly a worse but closer example to this mystery kissing on the high seas- technically still with Priya but waning by this episode) he is a serial weak resistance to the opposite sex ( Stephanie vs Howard friendship, slutbunny Plimpton straight after Penny dumping, rebound Penny sex, Old lady Latham) so I can actually see him failing in a moment of drunken weakness overpowered by his desperate hormones.

Penny on the other hand is the story of NOT cheating and her quicker than instant reply to Leonard about never doing anything similar was telling. Kurt let her down. Mike really let her down and Leonard was there to support her and saw her pain from those experiences. That should have been at the forefront of his mind the second the mystery girl approach. That's the disappointment of the story.

If Penny has a secret it won't be anything like Leonard's indiscretion during their relationship. Zac doesn't count so drunken Vegas wedding is not a valid comparison. Was she drunk? Yes. Was she in a relationship with Leonard? No. Was it written that she thought it was real? No. So that story for me is irrelevant.

This is the girl that other than Zac avoided men during the whole post Leonard thing because she still felt faithful to him. She kept the snowflake by her bedside. She kept the memory box. She spilt her guts to Amy and Bernie and Raj about her feelings. She felt guilty about Zac during justice league episode. Guitarist friend? British guy? no. The Penny story is the story of being hurt by cheating. She wouldn't do it while Leonard was with Priya. She certainly won't be doing it during their relationship. That's why this hurts so much for her and I can't believe how well she handled it considering her history. She was done with guys who did this. That's why she fell for Leonard. He was supposed to be different.

But it also shows how much she does love Leonard that she APPEARS to forgive him. Eventually it will hold but there should still be things to heal at S9 premier time.

As for the Shamy, I'll leave the Shamies to debate without me getting involved in something I usually stay away from. But as a Sheldon fan, I was saddened by that final scene. So silent a finish for a comedy. I haven't seen that since Henry Blakes death announcement in MASH. I gotta say Sheldon's reaction really hit me more than I thought it would. Personal reaction and I'm sure the not quite Sheldon fans thought different but I got a sense of him actually realizing the gravity of what happened and the level of feeling he has for Amy. It was like watching my teenage son's reaction to his first girlfriend breaking up with him. For me that is the Sheldon love story. A delayed teenager learning what loss finally means. Jims performance sold it to me and I really felt for Sheldon - and Amy too but I'm staying with my Sheldon fandom here.

So yeah just those final scenes really hit me hard. In a way that makes it a success for the writers if they got a strong emotional response from me. But I wanted a happy funny emotional response, not a dramatic one. I'll see what the rest of the episode gives me. Hopefully I find some fun amongst it.

But I've got bigger things to worry about than fictional trauma - Thoughts and Prayers thread here I come - so I'll patiently await next season and hope for hope.

[kelliluvtbbt]

i thought it was good. the writers are setting up each couple for next season ... to develop them. i thought it was out of sync at first but now i see that this will bring even bigger changes to all next season. 

[wowbagger]

Well, that happened.

 

I think that the taping report quite accurately captured the episode, in that my reactions to both were largely the same. Except, I think I am even more annoyed about the laziness of the writing in this episode, because it was exacerbated by Baby's First Photoshop level editing, especially between Raj/Emily and Howard/Bernie/Stuart.

 

And it's such a shame, because there is so much wonderful stuff in this finale! There's even a thematic tie between the couples. They are all struggling with moving on and/or being on the same page as their partners.

 

- Amy worries about Sheldon wanting what she wants, and about having to continually push him. ;

- Penny worries about not being compatible with Leonard, and Leonard- as we see- has been reticent to pursue, as he normally does, because of his own guilt and maybe other fears. 

- Howard and Bernie are struggling to move on with their lives in the absence of Mrs W, with everything that that entails;

- Raj is worried that he and Emily may not be right for each other

 

These are all wonderful, rich, meaty issues, and I even liked the developments at the end in principle:

 

- Amy indicates that she is tired of driving the relationship and steps back. Little does Amy know that Sheldon is there, planning a future with her in the most traditional sense;

- Leonard flips the script of constantly being the insecure one compared to Penny's more sexually adventurous past, by reminding us that Leonard receives plenty of attention, and further that Leonard has fears about commitment of his own. Seriously, Penny was absolutely right to ask him why he chose the moment he did to reveal the kiss. I absolutely think Leonard was trying to sabotage the wedding;

- Howard and Bernie are mired in the past, with responsibilities they barely understand but ones they must negotiate;

- Raj is so afraid of being alone that he fails to pull the cord, even if it would be fairer to both Raj and Emily to do so.

 

But dear LORD, would it have killed the writers to have built up to these developments? Excepting Howard and Bernie, which I think the show has sort of earned. 

 

The Lenny/Shamy developments in particular: I get them, on a global level. With some furious fanwanking, I can make sense of them. But did this episode, in context with this season, earn them? I don't think so, I really don't.

 

- Take Shamy: I've said this ad nauseam elsewhere, so I'll be brief. I don't have an issue with the developments per se, but the timing felt really off to me. Any conversation about pace and commitment felt like it belonged earlier in the show, and the argument they could have been having- sparked by Sheldon saying a dumb thing during a makeout session: 'Sheldon, it doesn't feel like you want to be here with me' (which- dude, he obviously did), they weren't having. I had a 'One of these things is not like the other.....' moment.

 

- Take Lenny: you know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder whether Leonard invented the kiss story to get out of marrying Penny in Vegas. Not that he doesn't want to marry her. I think he does. But the timing of the 'confession' was so, so weird to me. And fundamentally, while indeed the couple has some stuff to discuss before they get married, they had plenty of other shit to resolve, without Leonard pulling some random kiss out of his bum-hole and tabling it for Penny's inspection. The show has indicated multiple causes of conflict and then kinda-sorta-notreally resolving them. And then this kiss is produced, when all of the other stuff remains up in the air? Oy.

 

- Take Raj/Emily: Here I just think that Raj's discomfort about Emily's strangeness is- well, we've seen it before, I guess. But this storyline has always, sadly, felt a little undercooked to me. Such a shame, because this is a main cast member's first prolonged on-screen romance, and it sort of got lost in the shuffle.

 

And while I am on the cooking metaphor, let me repeat myself a little and say that this finale felt like the showrunners wanted to make a sumptuous repast of the season, with light and heavy balanced. And their way of doing it was to serve course after course of macaroons and cotton candy, and end with a giant boar stuffed with foie gras and caviare.

 

I mean, it's all there and most of it is really good stuff, but the end result is really hard to digest.

 

Cuoco and Parsons were on FIRE tonight, though. I mean, the cast is uniformly excellent, but they were particularly terrific.

[The Sweet Compounder]

This episode hurts. And it takes too long before season 9.   :( Shamy

[MarkT]

Gave this one an "okay". Could have covered up Kaley's spine tattoo (her wedding date with Ryan Sweeting), it shows multiple times and has no base in the TBBT universe. I agree the writers are overdoing it by writing Leonard into a too dumb a character. Buy groceries and THEN go to the petting zoo? Thinking you get goat superpowers when a goat bites you?Too cheap a joke, Mr. Writer. Or Penny has a perception problem of stuff Leonard says. Also could have used episodes 22 or 23 this season for a better ramp-up at unraveling the tapestry of half the characters' lives. Naturally, after all this, the second half of this episode was unusually dark and un-comic. Over all the set up to keep the show alive for two more seasons by the creators is a little too transparent. Smells like Emily is getting the boot start of season 9 and Amy an hiatus to free the characters for more non-relationship action once more.

[Chrismo]

I thought the show was suppose to be a comedy. There was no comedy in the Lenny and Shamy scenes at the end. And the Raj/Emily scene which could of been more serious with Raj going from dumping her to saying I love you wasn't funny or serious.

[wowbagger]

Another thematic tie (am I talking myself into liking this episode?) that I liked: all of the couples are struggling with communication: how much to disclose, when to disclose, what to disclose, how to disclose.

 

- Amy opened up about her frustrations with Sheldon, later perhaps than she should have. Sheldon didn't open up to her about his own desires and how he sees Amy in his life.

- Leonard chose a very telling moment to reveal his infidelity to Penny. Penny has opened up to Leonard about her own insecurities in the past- insecurities that he addressed/dismissed with a romantic line about facing their fears together. Should Penny have urged Leonard to have a conversation about their problems? Is Leonard unconsciously acting out of fear of those very problems that he doesn't want to address? (Am I talking myself into liking the Lenny plot?)

- Howard and Bernie don't know how to tell Stuart that they can't assume the roles he's pushing them into.

- Raj can't tell Emily that he worries about their incompatibility.

 

So much fear. So much pain. Such interesting developments that could have been earned with a little more work.

[Denise07]

I was spoiled and my initial reaction stands.  The timing of everything here seems way off and I agree that it was played for drama.

 

So the kneejerk and certainly not in depth analysis:

 

Overall, you have all storylines dealing with conflict which if done right can result in comedy but the only one that almost worked, IMO, was the Stuart/Howardette...it played out as so pathetic it's almost funny.  You know, they are trying to tell him to move out but instead we have a lil b-day party.  Real knee slapper.

 

Rajemily:  Raj is contemplating breaking up with her and instead tells her he loves her.  No, this won't complicate things later.

 

Shamy: Wow!!  The kiss part (not disappointed that it was cut down as I think the dialogue was more important here) and leading to at least seeing Amy's frustration to get to that point within this episode.  However, the parts that ultimately don't make sense, IMO:

 

They have this great communication and emotional bond but yet neither can talk about sex.  Amy's pushing for it.  Sheldon may be working on it but at the point that he should probably say:  Amy I am really working on this but I am just not ready.  So they dance around each other and Amy NOW decides she's had enough.  I am still not convinced even after this "make out" session that she really understands what sex and physical intimacy really means other than she thinks she really really wants it. 

 

Make out:  By def. that was not making out just prolonged kissing.  Her hair and clothes weren't even mussed up and their mouths were very much closed.

 

And now you have Sheldon contemplating marriage and they can't even talk about sex?  

 

Lenny:  That played more harshly than when I read it and yeah Penny looked more hurt than I expected.  I was giving it more of a pass after reading the TR but I have to say this wasn't Leonard's brightest moment.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Denise07

[ajond]

Episode was a fail. No humour and attempts at drama failed. Most unbelievable was that L who was finally going to marry a woman he has dreamed of for 8 years would suddenly confess to a drunken kiss from 2 years ago. Obviously this is a plot device to allow for some drama in S9. The 'Leonard bashing' continues.

[BazingaFan]

Forgive me if I'm repeating anything.  I haven't read any posts here, but I've watched the episode a couple of times and read a few reviews.

 

Even though the ending of the episode was sad, I have to say that I'm glad we are finally moving things along.  This season, while good in many aspects, has been at a stand-still in my opinion and let's face it, it has been mostly boring.  So, yay to the writers for bringing in some plot twists, and giving us something to look forward to next season, whether it be good or bad, at least it will be interesting.

 

The main thing that I've liked about this season is the fact that they seem to have brought back clueless Sheldon, who is happy and mostly innocent, saying the wrong things, but means well.  We'd lost that Sheldon for a while, so it's nice to see him like this again, and also, he has seemed overall at peace and happy this season with changes taking place and with Amy.  There's been a huge difference from the Sheldon of last year, who sat at a train stop confused and scared about what was about to take place.  Now we have found out that he has bought a ring, a huge step and one almost out of character, which makes it so exciting and interesting as we head into season nine.

 

I have said before that I wouldn't mind a breakup of the shamy and yay, we finally got it.  Now, don't get me wrong, I love the shamy, but I've always felt that this needed to happen.  Seeing Amy tell that to Sheldon was a huge step in the right direction for her.  We've watched her for too many seasons becoming an Amy that is hard to watch, even hard to understand, because she is so all over the place with her character and so under-developed.  I've missed the Amy of the earlier seasons, the one that was confident and happy and together, one that wasn't so frustrated and angry, and let's face it, even though she had low self esteem then, she still wasn't the mouse she is now.  So, after last night's performance, I can say with gained confidence that I feel she is now the most mature character of the entire group.  We all know how much she loves Sheldon.  It took so much bravery and courage for her to decide to take care of herself, and make this difficult step to evaluate what she wants.  While it was hard to watch, the emotion displayed in that scene was probably one of the best acted in the show.

 

I ask this of the writers: please use this and make some great episodes, centered around Amy and her struggle, along with Sheldon's.  Please do not quickly wrap this up in the first episode of season nine.  Please don't have Sheldon show up with a ring and make everything okay all in one swoop, back to the status quo.  They need to use this breakup for some major shamy development, and I guarantee if they use this and create many episodes working on the shamy, they will have good viewership.  This is what people want to see!  Bring back a focus on shamy, at least for one season, please?

 

As for Leonard and Penny, I feel it's time to move them forward, please!  Bring on the wedding if it's going to happen.  If not, quit dragging this out because it's been too freaking long.

 

There's my two cents.

[Itwasdestined]

Watched whole episode now. Gotta say I laughed at lots of it. Thought the Shamy opening was cruelly funny. Don't hate me for that - I did agonise over the ending. I thought Howard and Bernadette were good comic relief amongst the drama of the big 2 couples with Stewart in support. Not overly brilliant but still laughed.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Lenny/Sheldon interactions. Laughed during most of it, even if the jokes and situations were familiar.

Pre car scene I though Leonard and Penny were great. I don't take things as seriously as some. Yes the concept of Leonard being stupid enough to do what he did at the petting zoo, I still tend to laugh at silly situations so sue me for finding dumbed down Leonard funny sometimes. I still have inspirational Leonard and his speech to keep me happy.

The extremely belated wedding planning was cute and absolutely loved how spontaneous and excitedly happy Penny was when she proposed the Vegas solution ( wearing the proposal top was a nice tip to season 7 episode 23 big event. Even early car scene was cute. Pity it ended the way it did.

Raj and Emily was a bit off and I like their concept. Didn't like that desperate, weak Raj returned.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Itwasdestined

[kerrycec03]

Ok not much more I can add BUT here is my take

 

Raj/Emily  *hated this whole plot.  The silly ILY instead of being honest had no heart.  Raj is so painfully scared of being alone again he is willing to stick with someone who lets be honest, creeps him out.  And after such heart ILYs from Lenny and Shamy....this sucked.

 

Bernadette/Howard/Stuart *well clearly the only "stable" couple moving into season 9 is Bernadette & Howard.  The Stuart element I'm not sure where that will go.  I understand this was the "comedy" element but wasn't impressed

 

now to the drama...

 

Lenny....man oh man, this hit harder than I thought it was.  That car scene was brutal.  I did enjoy the banter style wedding planning in the kitchen (and I did enjoy the "Big 3" scenes) but the car stuff was rough.  BUT, as I wrote in the Lenny thread, maybe Penny will start realizing that she isn't the only prize in this relationship if that makes sense.  I don't see a wedding for a while now for them. 

 

Shamy....went into major details on the Shamy thread but what an extreme high, to an massive kick in the gut ending BUT was so well done.  Jim's acting in that tag with non-verbal cues holy moly that was amazing.  BUT this needed to happen.  Amy needs to be #1 in his mind and this too will help them in the long run.  He wants her (proof is the ring...)

 

I'm very hopeful from the numerous interviews that our writers do have an idea of what season 9 will bring especially leaving with such massive cliffhangers (the most emotional BBT has ever done).

 

Very emotional BUT very strong acting by our beloved cast finale.  Not big on the funny....but hit with the shock value

[kimbee73]

I gave this episode a good but not very good or excellent. I laughed at some of the lines....one of my favorites was Sheldon saying she went from kissy face to yelly face.

The Bernadette/Howard story was okay....I think Stuart living with them is actually really funny. Like last week when all the guys had to clean the kitchen. Raj/Emily....well that was awkward, Raj needs to grow a backbone.

 

Now the two big stories....I hated the Lenny storyline. I thought why are they bringing this up now. It felt to me that Leonard was making an excuse not to get married. Quite a turn from Penny and commitment issues. So he kissed some girl when they were both drunk....it happens. I don't justify it but I don't condemn it either. But the writers made it seem as if he stopped it but then he explained more details. It sounded to me as if this was Alice all over again. He wanted it then realized it was wrong. I don't like that. I want to see them married and happy. I think the writers had the whole wedding discussion about how they wanted a church wedding that is small with no butterflies to all of a sudden let's go to Vegas? Ummm how does that work? So the kiss was a way to bring them home although it sucks.

 

Shamy.....I don't know what to say....I cried at the end and when I watched it again I cried again. I really understand Amy but the timing is so off for me.  They were really into the kissing and yes Sheldon said something stupid, which is so typical for him and that did it for her? He went back in for more and looked concerned as to why she stopped him. He wanted more.....did she kill the mood for him? Maybe. Did he kill the mood for her? Absolutely.

What we need is for them to be on the same page. I have said this over and over in the Shamy thread, they need to have an adult conversation.

In Colonization, Amy had to explain why she was angry, it wasn't just about the application. It was about the fact that he wasn't including her in his future. He understood that after she ran away but she had to tell him.

She needs to tell him what she wants and he has to tell her that he is in this for the long haul. They are in love there is no doubt in my mind. But what I am seeing is two adults having a teenage relationship. They are so very new at this that they don't know how to tell the other what they need.

Until they figure that out this will keep happening.

 

I think that may be why the writers showed us at the end that Sheldon is thinking long term and he is willing to be in an adult relationship with her but she needs to let him know what she is expecting. I really hope the writers don't have him just run over with the ring and everything be all good between them. They will then still have the same issues.

 

IF this is a repeat of anything any one else has said I apologize, I just came on and wrote how I was feeling. I haven't had time to read all the comments.

[SRAM]

This episode was funny, it is just that the drama really overshadowed the funny so the whole episode came off as not being too funny.

Talking about just the Shamy right now, I thought this episode was a real good thing for their relationship, I don't see a breakup. We know Amy and Sheldon love each other and can express it, but for Sheldon this is still very confusing and one of Sheldon's traits, he has had since the beginning of the show, is keeping the Shamy relationship from progressing, Sheldon still cannot put someone before himself. I think this episode is the beginning of addressing that trait in Sheldon. I actually think season 9 for Shamy will be like Lenny's season 6, they will take some of their problems head on. The time away proposed by Amy in this episode is just the catalyst for all this to begin.

Oh about Raj and Emily, has everyone noticed that she has been involved with Raj for over an entire season and the girls have not welcomed her into the girls group, I think that is really telling. After last nights episode, I think one of the discussions this summer for TPTB will be whether they want to keep the character, since they set it up to dump her first thing next season, if they want to go that way.l