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walnutcowboy

Has Leonard Been Kidnapped ?

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Oh would you look at that people attacking a poster for having an different opinion than theirs

I don't mind when someone has a different opinion of mine even when I don't agree with it but when MOST of his posts are how much they hate a character (Leonard's a cheater, Leonard's a lier, Leonard's pathetic, Penny should dump Leonard, and on and on and on and on about Leonard's "insert negative comment here"), it gets old real fast!

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Leonard can never be trusted again.... as simple as that..........

 

once twice a cheater...always a cheater

Is that like once a smoker always a smoker or once an alcoholic always an alcoholic?

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who did I ignore mislav?

You said that Kathr261 should ignore vasu why didn't you ignore her reply to vasu then?

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it wasn't only to her it was to everybody that chime in agreeing with her comment.

 

Both Tripper and Tensor have said many, many times to report posts rather than make comments and inflame the situation. Perhaps that would have been the better course of action?

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Well I couldn't understand what motivated my brother to rob the high school computer lab when he was a teenager, all just for some christmas money; he also knew that was wrong.  But he did it anyway.  I don't excuse him making the mistake, but HE NEVER made a mistake of that magnitude again, and went on to become a successful computer programmer, and married.

 

It's a big world out there, just because you can't understand a specific persons mindset doesn't mean it's not possible.

 

 

 

I never said any of this wasn't possible, what I said was, to ME, that Leonard behaving this way was not in character.  Of course anything is possible.  I could say, hey Howard cheated on Bernadette with Leslie after his mom died.  Ummm people would go...that's seems weird.  I can't see Howard doing that, it seems really out of character.  Then I could say, "No it's possible, cause I had a friend that did that to his wife...."

 

You can put any bizarre scenario out there, and say that it's possible, cause someone knows someone who did that.  I don't see it in his character to do that.  He adores Penny too much, and they were not even having problems at that point.  You may feel that you do see that in his character to do that.  That's fine.  We just disagree.

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But it's only been one week since the finale. I predict (again) this is going to be just like the Raj/Penny cliffhanger of season 4. Lenny fans were pretty upset with that cliffhanger as well and to "fix it" we find out that "oh, they didn't actually have sex because Raj finished too soon while Penny was helping him put on the condom."

I see this as the same way. They wanted a cliffhanger and for some fucked up reason came up with this "brilliant" idea. If the fan reaction THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER is mostly negative and fans stop rooting for one of their "cash cow" couples, we're going to find out that "oh, Leonard didn't really cheat." and we'll find out one of a bunch of "fix it" scenarios.

Someone on here mentioned it being a dream Penny has while she's sleeping in the car on their way to Vegas. And they decide not to marry once they get there because of a bad omen or something.

Another "fix it" scenario....Leonard lied about the entire kiss because he got second thoughts of a Vegas wedding while in the car because of her first marriage to Zach and figured making something up to "sabotage" it would be better.

A third....the kiss really did happen but we find out more details so that it wasn't Leonards fault at all. She lunged herself at him and over powered him in his drunk state.

Or, the woman looks so much like Penny and he was so drunk he actually thought it WAS Penny until he tasted the cigarettes on her breath and felt embarrassed by it and kept it from her all this time.

I'm not that big of a Lenny fan but even I find this whole thing with the kiss incredibly out of character for Leonard. Since the PILOT, he has done nothing but adored and worshipped her and he suddenly does this to PENNY of all people?

Yeah, he did it to Priya but he didn't love her. Not even close to how he loves Penny. And none of the fans liked that "man stealing bitch" anyway...

Just to comment on your last sentence, I always considered Leonard's sleeping with Dr Slutbunny, so soon after Penny dumped him, as a broken man trying to get love wherever he could because of feeling unloved after what Penny did to him, her public breakup with him was quite cruel. I also felt Priya was a rebound relationship, he wanted so badly to be loved and he liked Priya so he grabbed on to her like a drowning man. His trouble dropping Penny as a friend and his quick recovery after his breakup with Priya showed he never was really in love with her, he just was in love of being in a relationship, the girl could have been almost anyone.

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I'm not that big of a Lenny fan but even I find this whole thing with the kiss incredibly out of character for Leonard. Since the PILOT, he has done nothing but adored and worshipped her and he suddenly does this to PENNY of all people?

 

I didn't find it out of character for Leonard to this extreme because Leonard has ALWAYS been shown as slow to put on the brakes, or draw the line when it comes to female attention.

 

When Alex hit on him in season 6 his first reaction to it wasn't to seemingly put a stop to her attention, but to soak it all in within reason.  When Dr. Stephanie came on to him, he was slow to worry about how Howard would worry about it.  When Priya came on to Leonard he didn't think of Raj's wishes first to not date his sister.  When Alice kissed him in the apartment his first reaction wasn't to put a stop to it.  And so on.

 

Leonard being too passive to resist female attention right away, has ALWAYS been an issue for him.  And NOW it's put him in a position where he could pay the price for it.

 

Now I do feel that Penny holds more value in Leonard's heart, and that I don't think Leonard would go out looking for a female hookup on the boat.  But I can easily imagine him chatting with a pretty face on the boat and THINKING of it as harmless because it's just casually hanging.  Same with the drinking in that instance.  I can imagine the drinking loosening his inhibitions and the girl coming on to him for a kiss, and him being slow in his drunken state to stop himself from resisting the situation.  Now if it gets revealed that HE PUT THE MOVES ON HER, then I would draw the line at THAT being out of character for him.  THAT I CAN'T buy from him, even in a drunken state.

 

Believe me, it doesn't give me any pleasure to admit that I think Leonard giving in to female attention in THAT INSTANCE is in character.  But it has been an issue for him in the past.  I also think he was probably so ashamed of this BECAUSE his action would hurt Penny, so perhaps he rationalized that he can't hurt her IF she doesn't know.

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I didn't find it out of character for Leonard to this extreme because Leonard has ALWAYS been shown as slow to put on the brakes, or draw the line when it comes to female attention.

 

When Alex hit on him in season 6 his first reaction to it wasn't to seemingly put a stop to her attention, but to soak it all in within reason.  When Dr. Stephanie came on to him, he was slow to worry about how Howard would worry about it.  When Priya came on to Leonard he didn't think of Raj's wishes first to not date his sister.  When Alice kissed him in the apartment his first reaction wasn't to put a stop to it.  And so on.

 

Leonard being too passive to resist female attention right away, has ALWAYS been an issue for him.  And NOW it's put him in a position where he could pay the price for it.

 

Now I do feel that Penny holds more value in Leonard's heart, and that I don't think Leonard would go out looking for a female hookup on the boat.  But I can easily imagine him chatting with a pretty face on the boat and THINKING of it as harmless because it's just casually hanging.  Same with the drinking in that instance.  I can imagine the drinking loosening his inhibitions and the girl coming on to him for a kiss, and him being slow in his drunken state to stop himself from resisting the situation.  Now if it gets revealed that HE PUT THE MOVES ON HER, then I would draw the line at THAT being out of character for him.  THAT I CAN'T buy from him, even in a drunken state.

 

Believe me, it doesn't give me any pleasure to admit that I think Leonard giving in to female attention in THAT INSTANCE is in character.  But it has been an issue for him in the past.  I also think he was probably so ashamed of this BECAUSE his action would hurt Penny, so perhaps he rationalized that he can't hurt her IF she doesn't know.

 

I think I agree with this interpretation of Leonard and how he interacts with women.

 

One could even play armchair psychiatrist and trace his liking for women paying attention to him back to his relationship with his mother, who apparently rarely paid attention to him. :p

 

You could say that with his lonely can't-get-the-girl adolescence, he enjoys it now when women pay attention to him or come on to him.  But the only person he's ever really given his heart to is Penny.

I do agree that Priya was a rebound relationship.  I liked Mary's observation in Rhinitis Revelation where she told Leonard he had to decide if he was in a relationship or if he was just calling it that.

 

I think he's vulnerable to that kind of attention from women--and by the way, why did Sheldon have to talk to Alex about hitting on Leonard?  Leonard should have put the kibosh on her little flirtation without Sheldon having to resort to discussing Egg Salads. :p

 

Anyway, I can see that kiss happening the way you describe and I don't think Leonard would have gone out of his way to deliberately betray Penny.

 

I think Penny will ultimately forgive him, but she might make him pay for it.  THis is a comedy, after all.  :p

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I don't want here to take sides wether or not Leonard cheated on penny or werther or not it would have been better to keep the kiss secret. I think every one has his/her own sensibility and on such matters everyone has to follow his/her beliefs. What surprises me is that the writers seem to understimate the "bad" light that such a cliffhanger had put all around one of the main characters. It was unnecessary, out of character (as far as Leonard's love for penny goes...) and it may alienate some fans from Lenny. There have been plenty of reasons to delay the wedding (i can't think any other reason to do such a thing apart it) which are much more consistent with Leonard's features and with the general plot of s8.

My guess is that, as soon the writers realize that this kiss may be too much for many fans, in s9 all this mess will be undone(i can't imagine how, but it will)!

 

 

Exactly! Alice was supposed to be his one mistake and against someone the fans didn't even like.

This kiss just doesn't make any sense at all!! From everything we've been shown and told about Leonard in the last 8 years and top it off with the tag scene to that Hawking trip when he shows the movie..."That's my girlfriend! I swear to God!"

OUT OF CHARACTER, writers!! Seriously, you guys can do better than this utter BS!! And again, THIS is coming from someone who's not that big of a Lenny fan....

 For those of you who have forgotten, CHECK OUT THE NAME OF THIS POST (that solves most of the debate)! (LOL)

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Is that like once a smoker always a smoker or once an alcoholic always an alcoholic?

 

Smoking and drinking are habits, rooted in dependency, while infidelity has more to do with a person's character. I don't necessarily believe that expression, it is still a false equivalency. 

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Exactly! Alice was supposed to be his one mistake and against someone the fans didn't even like.

 

So if Penny was in Priya's place, that would've made it more wrong?  :icon_rolleyes:

 

This kiss just doesn't make any sense at all!! From everything we've been shown and told about Leonard in the last 8 years

 

Does that include him being slow to put on the brakes when women have come on to him in the past; like I mentioned above?  Just because Penny is the love of his life doesn't mean that issue of his character just disappears so easily.

 

and top it off with the tag scene to that Hawking trip when he shows the movie..."That's my girlfriend! I swear to God!"

 

And how do you do know there wasn't a party before then where that kiss happened, then he regrets it, THEN goes out of his way to make sure everyone knows he has a girlfriend?

 

I feel people wanting to see Leonard and Penny as a fairy tale story FIRST and fallible human beings SECOND has A HUGE BEARING on people jumping the gun to declare Leonard's actions as out of character.  As opposed to this being possible under specific circumstances.

 

 

 

Smoking and drinking are habits, rooted in dependency, while infidelity has more to do with a person's character. I don't necessarily believe that expression, it is still a false equivalency. 

 

Yes but even then I don't believe that a persons character is monolithic, it's always a work in progress. Some can change surprisingly fast given specific circumstances (Howard Wollowitz), some change very slowly (Sheldon Cooper), but I believe we don't stop changing from the day we are born till the day we die.

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This one makes him a serial cheater

 

If being a serial cheater were an exact science that psychology could agree upon sure.  But some have believed it to be rooted in them calculating how they have the affair.  Some of them don't.  Some of them think it has to involve being an affair. Some don't.  Some of them think a moment of weakness or two, does make you a cheater, but not a serial one.

Hell by your established logic Penny was a serial cheater in high school by cheating on the two brothers.

 

To paraphrase a famous Bond Villain, "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is a consistent pattern."  At least that is how I see it.

Edited by meka3000

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Exactly! Alice was supposed to be his one mistake and against someone the fans didn't even like.

This kiss just doesn't make any sense at all!! From everything we've been shown and told about Leonard in the last 8 years and top it off with the tag scene to that Hawking trip when he shows the movie..."That's my girlfriend! I swear to God!"

OUT OF CHARACTER, writers!! Seriously, you guys can do better than this utter BS!! And again, THIS is coming from someone who's not that big of a Lenny fan....

Kathr, so I don't have to put up with bullshit posts, see the PM.

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Oh my..I've always been a big fan of Leonard...

But the kissing-issue. No, just no.

That's not the Leonard who has been in love with penny since the moment he saw her the first time, who tried everything to become her boyfriend and to make her happy no matter what.

For me it doesn't fit in at all!

I'm watching TBBT for years now..

I've even chosen a boyfriend who is, as I thought the characters would be that way, 80% Leonard and 20% of Sheldon..

But no...in the finale was definitely a wrong Leonard in the car.

What the heck...

Gesendet von meinem HTC Desire X mit Tapatalk

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Oh my..I've always been a big fan of Leonard...

But the kissing-issue. No, just no.

That's not the Leonard who has been in love with penny since the moment he saw her the first time, who tried everything to become her boyfriend and to make her happy no matter what.

For me it doesn't fit in at all!

I'm watching TBBT for years now..

I've even chosen a boyfriend who is, as I thought the characters would be that way, 80% Leonard and 20% of Sheldon..

But no...in the finale was definitely a wrong Leonard in the car.

What the heck...

Gesendet von meinem HTC Desire X mit Tapatalk

We are talking about the same Leonard who has a history of giving in to female attention when he probably shouldn't have, aren't we? The Leonard who gave in to Joyce Kim, priya, Dr Stephanie, Dr plimpton, rebound sex with drunk penny, the older lady, & Alices advances?

Why is him being in love with penny supposed to make that flaw in him magically disappear, but the rest of his flaws are still there?

Why can it not be a flaw that he would be more determined to overcome BECAUSE of Penny but is not completely successful in overcoming this flaw right away?

Edited by meka3000

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We are talking about the same Leonard who has a history of giving in to female attention when he probably shouldn't, aren't we? The Leonard who gave in to Joyce Kim, priya, Dr Stephanie, Dr plimpton, rebound sex with drunk penny, the older lady, & Alices advances?

Why is him being in love with penny supposed to make that flaw in him magically disappear, but the rest of his flaws are still there?

Why can it not be a flaw that he would be more determined to overcome BECAUSE of Penny but is not completely successful in overcoming this flaw right away?

And why can't you just let people feel the way they feel about it? Why do you always have to try and "correct" the way they feel?

And Are you ever going to answer this question or continue to ignore it?

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Yes BUT Leonard seeks for love all his life.

Has been bullied, his mother...and since he met penny his biggest wish was to gain her love and affection.

Yes he gave in to all this women, but he was alone by then. (Not having penny, the love of his life=alone)

No he's got penny. Finally.

So he should be happy, not seeking for anybodys affection but hers...

Gesendet von meinem HTC Desire X mit Tapatalk

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