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[Spoilers] Lenny: Season 9


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21 minutes ago, No Regrets said: Perfect gif.

There was also that time when Penny told Leonard he's ruined other men for her because of how smart he is. And she needed to have him right there and then.

That was the season 3 finale ^^ He had destroyed her ability to tolerate idiots. Though Penny later (some time after the comic book store costume party) had no problem having sex with Zack, even marrying him in Vegas

We don't know if she had sex with zak that night. It was never mentioned or implied.

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18 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

That is the million dollar question why does she love Leonard and most importantly why does he love her so much. I would love tptb to explore this further because I freaking want to know, it a question that has been ignored by the writers for too long. Whenever it come up they seem to make the character dodge the question with an answer so unbelievable and nothing to do with the actual question. I just want an episode where they devour into this. No holding back and talk about why they love each other.

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I think they have expressed it in many ways but it's when the actual question is asked neither of them know what to say. I think they worry about what the right answer is supposed to be. For the purpose off this episode, the plot required the question not to be answered so the shrink could dig into her series long issues. But she could have easily said "because he makes me happy" " because he treats me so well and respects me", "because he's always cared about me and would do anything to help me", "because he's my best friend","he's a great guy". These are all perfectly valid reasons for love and Penny has expressed them throughout the show. But instead the deep seated insecurity that she isn't good enough for Leonard or that they are too different messes with her and so she turns to thinking it's only her looks that count.

And Leonard doesn't help when he only references her beauty and sex when the topic is brought up.  If anything, it's Leonard who has struggled to express the "why" even though he has constantly expressed the fact that he "does". Would it be good enough to say " because she accepts me for who I am"? It might not sound romantic but it was truly the difference between Priya and Penny. They were both pretty and had sex with him but Priya tried to change who he was whereas Penny, as far back as the time machine episode, didn't. 

So will the writers be brave and let them explore their love beyond the set themes of the show - she's hot and sex is great/he does stuff for me vs I'm not good enough for him/her and we are so different- or will they stick to the norm because it's been easy to write them that way for 8 and half seasons? And find comedy in exploring those reasons for their love.  They're the big questions for me. 

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2 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

What brothered me she was ready to break up with Leonard a second time

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But she didn't. 

I've always been more bothered about how easily Leonard jumped into the Priya relationship in front of Penny. 

But it all old news now, both examples. 

They love each other. Let them say why. 

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18 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said: That is the million dollar question why does she love Leonard and most importantly why does he love her so much. I would love tptb to explore this further because I freaking want to know, it a question that has been ignored by the writers for too long. Whenever it come up they seem to make the character dodge the question with an answer so unbelievable and nothing to do with the actual question. I just want an episode where they devour into this. No holding back and talk about why they love each other.

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I think they have expressed it in many ways but it's when the actual question is asked neither of them know what to say. I think they worry about what the right answer is supposed to be. For the purpose off this episode, the plot required the question not to be answered so the shrink could dig into her series long issues. But she could have easily said "because he makes me happy" " because he treats me so well and respects me", "because he's always cared about me and would do anything to help me", "because he's my best friend","he's a great guy". These are all perfectly valid reasons for love and Penny has expressed them throughout the show. But instead the deep seated insecurity that she isn't good enough for Leonard or that they are too different messes with her and so she turns to thinking it's only her looks that count.

And Leonard doesn't help when he only references her beauty and sex when the topic is brought up.  If anything, it's Leonard who has struggled to express the "why" even though he has constantly expressed the fact that he "does". Would it be good enough to say " because she accepts me for who I am"? It might not sound romantic but it was truly the difference between Priya and Penny. They were both pretty and had sex with him but Priya tried to change who he was whereas Penny, as far back as the time machine episode, didn't. 

So will the writers be brave and let them explore their love beyond the set themes of the show - she's hot and sex is great/he does stuff for me vs I'm not good enough for him/her and we are so different- or will they stick to the norm because it's been easy to write them that way for 8 and half seasons? And find comedy in exploring those reasons for their love.  They're the big questions for me. 

Oh I totally agree on all the points you made. And yes Leonard is as quilty as Penny on this. It's like every time someone ask the question they both crawl back into their shells and say the first thing that comes to mind which always comes out as not flattering. This shrink thing didn't really resolve anything apart from Leonard bitching about his mother and shown to happy after. We also got penny bitching about Leonard and Sheldon with no resolution. I really hope they explore this therapy thing further it too big to just sweep away. But i got a feeling that's exactly what's going to happen tho.

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38 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

We don't know if she had sex with zak that night. It was never mentioned or implied.

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I doubt Penny had sex with Zack after the comic book store party. But I meant in the time after, since they obviously dated some more.

23 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:

I've always been more bothered about how easily Leonard jumped into the Priya relationship in front of Penny.

Why? He was single, any possible relationship with Penny seemed off the table, so he went to the woman he liked as well, talked and they rekindled their relationship again. Also, it wasn't quite in front of Penny, Raj blurted it out while Penny was next to them. It's not like they were all in the living room with Penny there and started again.

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38 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said: We don't know if she had sex with zak that night. It was never mentioned or implied.

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I doubt Penny had sex with Zack after the comic book store party. But I meant in the time after, since they obviously dated some more.

23 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said: I've always been more bothered about how easily Leonard jumped into the Priya relationship in front of Penny.

Why? He was single, any possible relationship with Penny seemed off the table, so he went to the woman he liked as well, talked and they rekindled their relationship again. Also, it wasn't quite in front of Penny, Raj blurted it out while Penny was next to them. It's not like they were all in the living room with Penny there and started again.

I thought you were talking about the comicbook new years eve party. Although she did admit to Amy that she did at the bar when zak walked in and Amy's hormones went into overdrive.

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21 minutes ago, No Regrets said: Perfect gif. There was also that time when Penny told Leonard he's ruined other men for her because of how smart he is. And she needed to have him right there and then.

That was the season 3 finale ^^ He had destroyed her ability to tolerate idiots. Though Penny later (some time after the comic book store costume party) had no problem having sex with Zack, even marrying him in Vegas

We don't know if she had sex with zak that night. It was never mentioned or implied.

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She had sex with zack in vegas. That's why they were trying to find away to a null the marriage on Thanksgiving

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37 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

She had sex with zack in vegas. That's why they were trying to find away to a null the marriage on Thanksgiving

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It was never stated either way whether penny and zack had sex in Vegas. They allegedly got drunk and got married in Vegas thinking it wasn't real.  But that doesn't confirm that they had sex.

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37 minutes ago, legacy99 said: She had sex with zack in vegas. That's why they were trying to find away to a null the marriage on Thanksgiving

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It was never stated either way whether penny and zack had sex in Vegas. They allegedly got drunk and got married in Vegas thinking it wasn't real.  But that doesn't confirm that they had sex.

When they were in the car they asked penny if they had consinmated the wedding she didn't say yes but then they started looking for other loop holes because she had that guilty look on her face. watch that espiode again and look a penny's face. Even sheldon knew they had

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1 hour ago, son-goku5 said:

Why? He was single, any possible relationship with Penny seemed off the table, so he went to the woman he liked as well, talked and they rekindled their relationship again. Also, it wasn't quite in front of Penny, Raj blurted it out while Penny was next to them. It's not like they were all in the living room with Penny there and started again.

Personal viewpoint. We can disagree. I'm not bothered by Penny's near breakup thoughts. You and legacy are fine with him going to Priya. And I meant the whole relationship playing out in front of Penny in Season 4, not the initial discovery. That hurt Penny. And her pain was played out over several episodes. Some feel she deserved it for dumping Leonard and yes his Pain was also obvious over several episodes but I think sometimes Penny cops all the blame because of how she's portrayed. Me, I have a lot of empathy for her personal story so the Priya thing bothers me. YMMV as we say.

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Penny going through the pain of leonard dating Priya bothered me too. You could feel for her but another thing that bothered me as well was why the hell didn't she do anything about getting back with Leonard when he split up with Priya. Obviously not straight away. I never understood how she went from missing him and then when he was available just went back to wanting to be friends.

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1 hour ago, legacy99 said:

When they were in the car they asked penny if they had consinmated the wedding she didn't say yes but then they started looking for other loop holes because she had that guilty look on her face. watch that espiode again and look a penny's face. Even sheldon knew they had

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consummation doesn't have to take place during the wedding night. Remember, Leonard and Penny consummated their wedding after they had resolved their fight, which was a day or two after the wedding itself.

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1 hour ago, legacy99 said: When they were in the car they asked penny if they had consinmated the wedding she didn't say yes but then they started looking for other loop holes because she had that guilty look on her face. watch that espiode again and look a penny's face. Even sheldon knew they had

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consummation doesn't have to take place during the wedding night. Remember, Leonard and Penny consummated their wedding after they had resolved their fight, which was a day or two after the wedding itself.

I know but when they asked penny if they had she didn't deny it. that's why they went with she didn't know it was real

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4 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

-I think they have expressed it in many ways but it's when the actual question is asked neither of them know what to say. I think they worry about what the right answer is supposed to be. For the purpose off this episode, the plot required the question not to be answered so the shrink could dig into her series long issues. But she could have easily said "because he makes me happy" " because he treats me so well and respects me", "because he's always cared about me and would do anything to help me", "because he's my best friend","he's a great guy". These are all perfectly valid reasons for love and Penny has expressed them throughout the show. But instead the deep seated insecurity that she isn't good enough for Leonard or that they are too different messes with her and so she turns to thinking it's only her looks that count.

-And Leonard doesn't help when he only references her beauty and sex when the topic is brought up.  If anything, it's Leonard who has struggled to express the "why" even though he has constantly expressed the fact that he "does". Would it be good enough to say " because she accepts me for who I am"? It might not sound romantic but it was truly the difference between Priya and Penny. They were both pretty and had sex with him but Priya tried to change who he was whereas Penny, as far back as the time machine episode, didn't.

 -To be fair Penny's tank top quote came off as a feeble attempt, to change the subject away from Leonard perpetuating his mother issues on to her. So it makes sense that she would want to say tank tops was a big selling point.  Compared to being LIKE Leonard's mother.  What woman would want to be said they are JUST LIKE HER?  Also Penny has always tried to use humor as a defense mechanism.  After all, this was a topic that made her feel uncomfortable before hand, when she said she didn't want to talk about it?  So it's not hard to believe that she didn't think anything she said would be satisfactory to dr. galo.

-This is not necessarily true, Leonard in The Spaghetti Catalyst made reference to Penny's other qualities when talking to Raj about whether he would find a girl:

"Leonard: Yes, you will, and she’ll be beautiful, and kind and sexy and funny and everything you ever wanted in a woman."

He doesn't say it's Penny, but it's obvious that it's her.

Also in The Gothowitz Deviation, Sheldon offers Leonard the opportunity to "change" Penny's "annoying qualities", and Leonard balks at the opportunity, because those "qualities" make Penny who she is.

And in The Recombination Hypothesis in Leonard's mind he imagines Sheldon saying that he's drawn to penny because she's the exact opposite of his cold, detached, and callous mother.  Which makes sense because Leonard always yearned for something more normal in his childhood, and Penny's "normalcy" is a stark contrast to his family.

I'm sure there are other examples, but those one's have always stood out to me.

While yes he hasn't said much to her as to why he loves her 1 on 1; if we're being honest none of the guys (or girls for that matter) of the main relationships (Lenny, Shamy, Howardette) have gone into detail about WHY they love their significant others in front of them 1 on 1.  At least not DIRECTLY (as far as I can remember).

2 hours ago, legacy99 said:

When they were in the car they asked penny if they had consinmated the wedding she didn't say yes but then they started looking for other loop holes because she had that guilty look on her face. watch that espiode again and look a penny's face. Even sheldon knew they had

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I'll give you this one, I was thinking of consummating as in terms of signing a contract since that is one of it's definitions.

But low and behold, being unable to have sexual intercourse IS a term that can meet the requirements for an annulment.  Learn something new everyday, I guess.

So for everyone who has been annoyed at my tenacity with your posts, I meka3000 admit I was wrong on this one.  And that someone else (legacy99 in this instance) was right.  There I said it. 

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3 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

But she didn't. 

I've always been more bothered about how easily Leonard jumped into the Priya relationship in front of Penny. 

But it all old news now, both examples. 

They love each other. Let them say why. 

Jumped into a relationship with Priya??  Wasn't his relationship after Penny's with Zack, the man she married.  Wouldn't a better question be why she got so involved with Zack, going on a trip with him and marrying him?

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Yep it was after Zac, no disagreement. but then Plimpton was even earlier so Leonard no saint. ( and yes that was a reaction to the pain of the breakup he didn't see coming ) Penny ain't perfect. She screwed up and admitted that. Zac was mostly off screen though and she was never really committed to him. He was probably another example of that rebound sex disorder she told Leonard about in Season 1 Ep 3. But the Priya thing was a bigger commitment from Leonard played out in front of Penny. I'm not gonna go through the egg and chicken thing. Was Priya a reaction to the Love Car and Justice League disappointments - maybe? But Leonard in his mind was thinking marriage with Priya seriously. Zac was a stupid drunken mistake in Vegas that was written into the show for a one off conflict plot. Priya was a long term plot device but it was also a long term on screen pain for Penny. As I said, I empathise with Penny's story. We all have different perceptions. 

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4 hours ago, No Regrets said:

I think she still wonders why someone like Leonard married her, though.

I think it's more like she struggles with seeing herself as a LASTING long term partner, when she's not as smart as him.  Remember in the season 2 premiere?

"So, do you think that if Leonard and I keep dating he’ll eventually get bored with me?"

Given her run of relationships where she was cheated on it makes sense that she would see herself in a worst case scenario where she feels she's not good enough.

Now I do feel that them being married, AND their talk in the Separation Oscillation, has diminished this issue for her to a point.  It doesn't mean it is gone, but she does have some more confidence in herself about this.  I think deep down Penny knows that Leonard married her, FOR who she is, warts and all.  Why would he stick with her through her worst times IF she had nothing else to offer besides looks?  But, like remembering how smart Leonard is in season 6 (and that being one of many things that attracted her to him), sometimes she needs to be reminded that she is worthwhile as a person/and mate in Leonard's eyes.

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Another bug for me and worry to a certain degree. Leonard has professed and told penny he loves her at lest 3 or 4 times this season (not counting the vows and the love trap thing) not once has Penny said it back or just said it freely. The best husband ever doesn't do it for me. It didn't feel believable because she was happy she got a potential sale that for me killed the moment. I did like the episode for bringing out their vulnerability and bringing it to the surface but just a shame it ends there and no follow up but angst because of the writers love of putting lenny through angst instead giving them an arc to resolved their issues like they are doing with shamy.

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43 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

 

Another bug for me and worry to a certain degree. Leonard has professed and told penny he loves at lest 3 or 4 times this season (not counting the vows and the love trap thing) not once has Penny said it back or just said it freely.

She said it in the season premiere right before they are about to have their wedding ceremony.

 

Quote

Leonard: This is it.

Penny: I know.

Leonard': I love you.

Penny: I love you, too.

 

2 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:

 

Penny going through the pain of leonard dating Priya bothered me too. You could feel for her but another thing that bothered me as well was why the hell didn't she do anything about getting back with Leonard when he split up with Priya. Obviously not straight away. I never understood how she went from missing him and then when he was available just went back to wanting to be friends.

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She wanted to take things slow, even though she used the term "not a date", in The Orithnophobia Diffusion; I saw that as her wanting to get her feet wet but not dive back in and letting leonard know that.

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7 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:  

Another bug for me and worry to a certain degree. Leonard has professed and told penny he loves at lest 3 or 4 times this season (not counting the vows and the love trap thing) not once has Penny said it back or just said it freely.

She said it in the season premiere right before they are about to have their wedding ceremony.
Leonard: This is it.

Penny: I know.

Leonard': I love you.

Penny: I love you, too.

2 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:  

Penny going through the pain of leonard dating Priya bothered me too. You could feel for her but another thing that bothered me as well was why the hell didn't she do anything about getting back with Leonard when he split up with Priya. Obviously not straight away. I never understood how she went from missing him and then when he was available just went back to wanting to be friends.

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She wanted to take things slow, even though she used the term "not a date", in The Orithnophobia Diffusion; I saw that as her wanting to get her feet wet but dive back in and letting leonard know that.

Okay forgot about that one. But the not a date episode was going as friends to the cinema and Leonard stated that they haven't hang out as friends in a long time and they were horrible to each other. if I remember correctly Leonard asked penny out 2 episodes later. My point was way back before those episodes. No hint to Leonard whatsoever that she wanted him back.

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9 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

 

She said it in the season premiere right before they are about to have their wedding ceremony. She wanted to take things slow, even though she used the term "not a date", in The Orithnophobia Diffusion; I saw that as her wanting to get her feet wet but dive back in and letting leonard know that.

Okay forgot about that one. But the not a date episode was going as friends to the cinema and Leonard stated that they haven't hang out as friends in a long time and they were horrible to each other. if I remember correctly Leonard asked penny out 2 episodes later. My point was way back before those episodes. No hint to Leonard whatsoever that she wanted him back.

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There was the season 4 finale.  Penny in the Beta Test Initiation, suggested they take things slow.  I saw her wanting to hang out with him "as friends" in The Orithnophobia Diffusion as her subtle approach at a first step.  By the end of that night, I think she wasn't quite sure he was on the same wavelength as her.  Hence her asking Leonard, "Have you thought this through?" in The Recombination Hypothesis.

Edited by meka3000
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