Ship Zone [Spoilers] Lenny: Season 9

[meka3000]

11 minutes ago, Tensor said:

then they have Penny "Feel Sorry" for Sheldon and reverse it to them splitting time between the two apartments.  Only for Penny to complain about it later.  Sort of a double reverse.  

Penny can't ever be a hypocrite?

[3ku11]

2003 Approximation. Should have been Leonard moving out. But they back tracked for some reason. 

13 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

Evidently, TPTB think it funnier and more realistic for a newly married couple to take care of a grown man, with a PhD, than separating from him and try to work their life together.  I don't happen to think of it that way, but I don't write it.  I just have to express my disappointment.

 

Yeah, Leonard is already living with Penny (remember how he puts pillows in his bedroom to hide that fact), then they have Penny "Feel Sorry" for Sheldon and reverse it to them splitting time between the two apartments.  Only for Penny to complain about it later.  Sort of a double reverse.  

Leonard has lived with Sheldon since the pilot. Its the premise. Maybe tptb are afraid of breaking it. Only explanation.

[Tensor]

Just now, 3ku11 said:

2003 Approximation. Should have been Leonard moving out. But they back tracked for some reason. 

Big time backtrack.  Penny has previously pushed Leonard to move out, it comes down to it and she caves, then complains about it. 

[3ku11]

13 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Big time backtrack.  Penny has previously pushed Leonard to move out, it comes down to it and she caves, then complains about it. 

So Penny is the product of her own misery. She bitched about her situation in the Therapy session. But quite honest she either created it, or could of prevented it. Fine feel.sorry for Sheldon, do it from across the hall. I mean its stupid. I get Penny felt sorry for Sheldon. But they can be their for him without being their 247. Sheldon proved he doesent need them. They could still live at 4B and hang out at Sheldons. If he needed to talk, he could always walk over. They dont live on the moon. This whole set up is absolutely absurd. You got to wonder. If Lenny are using Sheldon as an excuse, as they are afraid of getting older.

Edited January 30, 2016 by 3ku11

[legacy99]

My only fear is if lenny move out and amy moves in we will see even less lenny

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Kasey]

15 minutes ago, son-goku5 said:

Might be because some people in here tend to get into some completely off-topic discussions over the validity of their opinions and therefore violate forum rules?

Well that would be for our moderators to decide then.  I would think that calling someone else's opinion not valid or trivial or not important would be a violation of the forum rules.  But I leave that again to the moderators.

I would say that Lenny's leaving or stepping back from this forum has to do with not liking the direction of the show and/or not liking the fact that there's a lot of unhappy Lenny fans who post on here.  That would be my guess...

[legacy99]

I'm still following the fourms but I've stopped watching the show its just to depressing

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[luminous]

2 minutes ago, Kasey said:

I would say that Lenny's leaving or stepping back from this forum has to do with not liking the direction of the show and/or not liking the fact that there's a lot of unhappy Lenny fans who post on here.  That would be my guess...

Yeah, and I can even understand their decision to leave or step back.

Oh well...sometimes I envy the so called "Snowflake Snugglers" from another forum for their attitude.

[meka3000]

20 hours ago, Touche said:

-While I understand your point, it was not even suggested until episode 9.02, and it was so subtle, it took you pointing it out to me before I finally even picked up on it.  Good job writers.  

Everything has to be noticed on the first viewing?  I don't always notice everything on a first viewing every episode.

 

Quote

 

Actually, my initial interpretation was Penny is still willing to get married even though there is a big red flag that should be addressed before proceeding.  I realize matters of the heart are difficult to navigate and our emotions get the best of us, but are you telling me that someone who is so afraid of commitment as Penny that does not want Leonard moving in

 

That was before season 7.  By the time of their engagement she is more than fine with the idea.  People can change their minds, why can't Penny about certain things in regards to her commitment issues?

 

Quote

purposely delayed the wedding nor made any wedding plans following the proposal (yes she wanted to prove she was not pregnant, but a year later not a single shopping for a dress or penciling in a date?), would then still follow through with the ceremony without resolving the giant pink elephant in the room?

 

Yes because by the time she and Leonard started leaving in the s8 finale, she was gung ho about following through with getting married.  Yes the kiss issue does dampen her spirits, but she made it clear that they had put off getting married long enough and didn't want to put it off again.  Yes she has commitment issues but she has gotten better at dealing with them in regards to her relationship with Leonard, even though she hasn't mastered dealing with them.

"Look. Like I’m not happy this happened, but I think I can get past it. I mean, we weren't engaged at the time, and it was just kissing."

"No. I want to. We've put this off long enough. Let's do it."

Even word of god specify's that Penny wanted to stop getting cold feet, because she felt, they would just get cold feet again. "Even Penny, with all of her commitment issues, is in a mindset of, 'Are we moving forward with this or not? What are we doing?' And they do." " She thinks she's OK with it and she may not be"

"I also understand where Penny's coming from. We've made it this far and we're just going to get scared again if we don't do it, so let's do it."

Yes turns out she still had issues with it, but sometimes people lie to themselves.  Even if it's at the worst times.  But she was still feeling the forward movement they started in the season 8 finale towards getting married.  She seemed more determined to not let things stop her like in the past.  The season premiere is called The Matrimonial MOMENTUM for more than one reason.

 

Quote

He did that when Penny kissed him for the first time when she was drunk during the Halloween party.  He also refused her proposal when she was upset about being cut from the NCIS episode.

 

Different set of circumstances than those episodes.  Also keep in mind in the engagement episode, Leonard didn't go through with that right away either UNTIL he was convinced that Penny was wanting to get married, FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.  Penny convinced him that she was doing that.  Just like she convinced him she was willing to get past the kiss issue.

 

Quote

Again, the fact that both Penny and Leonard proceeded with fully resolving the issue (the fact that Mandy works at the university) doesn't make sense.

 

Sure it does (IMO), they both wanted to go through with it EVEN THOUGH they both had reservations about their actions.

Edited January 30, 2016 by meka3000

[Kasey]

5 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

 

 

Even word of god specify's that Penny wanted to stop getting cold feet, because she felt, they would just get cold feet again. "Even Penny, with all of her commitment issues, is in a mindset of, 'Are we moving forward with this or not? What are we doing?' And they do." " She thinks she's OK with it and she may not be"

"I also understand where Penny's coming from. We've made it this far and we're just going to get scared again if we don't do it, so let's do it."

 

 

 

 

I would like to know what you mean by the bolded phrase please.

[meka3000]

35 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

This whole set up is absolutely absurd. You got to wonder. If Lenny are using Sheldon as an excuse, as they are afraid of getting older.

So is someone who lives with Sheldon and his roommate agreement.  But we are apparently willing to accept that quirk.  But the quirk of how Lenny came to this living arrangement is THE LINE?

[luminous]

27 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

My only fear is if lenny move out and amy moves in we will see even less lenny

Geez! TPTB were downright capable of doing that.

For the time being I would be happy to see Lenny at least snuggling sitting on the couch, standing in the kitchen, sleeping in bed...in 4B!!!

[4everlenny]

As much as TPTB have left Sheldon grow and change so much in some areas of his life ie Amy; they allow him to stay Lenny's little boy...manipulating and whining at the slightest hints of independent living for the Hofstadter. They are the closest friends he has ever had yet he uses them to fill his selfish needs. Leonard and Penny being the kind and loyal friends they are, fall for it every time. Seems like this is the only way the writers know how to write these 3. This makes it next to impossible to further progress our newlyweds;  and makes it maddening to ship Leonard and Penny. As much as Dr Fowler has helped Sheldon change and grow in other areas, maybe she can show Sheldon how he is hampering his friends adjustment to married life. Amy might be our only hope to an independent Dr and Mrs Hofstadter.

[3ku11]

5 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

So is someone who lives with Sheldon and his roommate agreement.  But we are apparently willing to accept that quirk.  But the quirk of how Lenny came to this living arrangement is THE LINE?

No the line is. Lenny still live with Sheldon. The line is also Leonard still lives their too. Its the whole thing.

[JE7]

Edited January 30, 2016 by JE7

[meka3000]

9 minutes ago, Kasey said:

I would like to know what you mean by the bolded phrase please.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod

Just now, 3ku11 said:

No the line is. Lenny still live with Sheldon. The line is also Leonard still lives their too. Its the whole thing.

And the complicated situation in how they got to that point doesn't count for anything?

3 minutes ago, 4everlenny said:

This makes it next to impossible to further progress our newlyweds;  and makes it maddening to ship Leonard and Penny.

Why?  There's more aspects to Lenny THAT DON'T involve Sheldon.

[Tensor]

 

3 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

No the line is. Lenny still live with Sheldon. The line is also Leonard still lives their too. Its the whole thing.

  At this point, that they still live there, is way beyond the line. 

[meka3000]

7 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

  At this point, that they still live there, is way beyond the line. 

Its not out of character for them though.

itwasdestined put it best about that episode:

 

Quote

Agree with the positive comments on the Lenny marriage dynamic.

I think Penny was very aware of how her husband was feeling and reacted exactly as my wife has over the last 25 years. She sensed his confusion to how life without Sheldon will be, she noticed he was conflicted, she recognised the delay in the signing and didn't see the need to the discussion about changing the move plans. Leonard might pretend to want to get away from Sheldon but she knows how he thinks deep down and while some think she disregarded Leonard's wishes when she bowed down to Sheldon's pain, I believe she read the room and decided on what Leonard preferred anyway. Other than being completely separated from Sheldon, is it a massive sacrifice and crime against marriage? I have several friends who lived with parents in early stages of marriage ( just like Howardette struggled with early on. I know of many married couples who have short and long term arrangements with friends living with them. TBBT is not unique on television for unusual living arrangements for couples and friends.

Australian TV has been full of them. And it's Sheldon and Lenny. Whatever we WANT for this relationship is always going to be the opposite of what we will get. And like it or not, we are gonna get Lenny and Sheldon connected for a while longer yet. And have neither the will nor the energy to stress about it here cos the writers aint takin no notice of me or anyone else on here.

 

And so to Sheldon. Again I get that if you’ve had issues with Sheldon controlling Lenny ( or anyone else tbh) you’re a chance of reacting badly to his performance in this episode. And yes, there have been episodes where I’ve been disappointed with him getting his own way but I don’t see him at fault in this one. Other than chucking a bit of a tasty in the opening scene, I personally think Sheldon was a balanced combination of reasonably mature and predictably wacky in that Sheldon way.

 

I can empathise with how he’s feeling ( but I’m not a Sheldon apologist - I've called him out plenty of times)  and I think he explained himself quite rationally without laying on the guilt IMHO. Fact; Amy has left him. Fact: Lenny are leaving him. Yes at the moment it is 6 metres across the hall but he’s not wrong to assume that at some point they will want to upsize to a new house - that’s what married couples do. If the woman I love and the two most important people in my day to day life for the last 8/12 years were on the verge of leaving me, I’d be a touched stressed out too. And I don’t have Sheldonitis ( well, maybe a little bit) 

 

Fact: he accepted their decision and cancelled the Room mate Agreement ( and surely we can all laugh at the key bit). Fact: he went to the effort of interviewing potential room mates. Opinion: he never had any intention to accept any of them and sabotaged the interviews. My opinion based on a lot of empirical evidence from the Flashback episode in Season 3: Sheldon’s interview of Leonard was full of ridiculous questions too but Leonard passed the tests and made it into Sheldon’s heart, the first person to do it since his Mom and Meemaw. 

 

Fact: Sheldon has had a lot of meltdowns in this show and these have been exhibited in a lot of weird ways. Reverting back to his 2003 persona makes sense to him to avoid further disappointment in his life. He was prepared to go that way. He explained it unemotionally to Lenny and they decided they couldn’t do it to him YET. It was their decision ( Penny said it but despite the look and words, Leonard thought it). Of course Sheldon immediately embraced it. It was what he wanted but he didn’t force it. His great friends ( no I don’t like the dog owner analogy - I’m over that reference) saw what he was feeling and did what they have done over the last eight years. Do you have to like what happened? No. Are you allowed to be sick of Lenny’s cave ins? Yes. Is it inconsistent? I don’t think so. They have had enough of him in just about every season and come back to him every time. Is that tired, lazy and overdone? If you want to think that way, you can. I just accept that is the story the writers are telling and personally like it.

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by meka3000

[Tensor]

9 minutes ago, 4everlenny said:

Leonard and Penny being the kind and loyal friends they are, fall for it every time. Seems like this is the only way the writers know how to write these 3. This makes it next to impossible to further progress our newlyweds;  and makes it maddening to ship Leonard and Penny. 

This is what is so maddening to me.  It's like the writers don't have the guts to try to seperate them.  We get bullshit manipulation, or regressed characters, or as you say, they make them patsies. Mostly using those poor plot devices, instead of moving them forward in their relationship, like we've seen once in a great while. 

[3ku11]

15 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

Its not out of character for them though.

itwasdestined put it best about that episode:

 

 

No Meka your right its not out of character for them. But its still maddening. Especially seeing being married has changed things.

[Kasey]

21 minutes ago, Tensor said:

This is what is so maddening to me.  It's like the writers don't have the guts to try to seperate them.  We get bullshit manipulation, or regressed characters, or as you say, they make them patsies. Mostly using those poor plot devices, instead of moving them forward in their relationship, like we've seen once in a great while. 

While I could see that Leonard would have a hard time breaking from Sheldon as they are friends.  BUT I think that it's. been. long. enough.  Settle the matter and let us move on. 

Well then again, maybe Lenny did move on but you know that was cut to include a Shamy skype convo...

[Tensor]

 

38 minutes ago, luminous said:

Geez! TPTB were downright capable of doing that.

That's one thing that worries me.  They seem capable of cutting them back even more.  

 

38 minutes ago, luminous said:

For the time being I would be happy to see Lenny at least snuggling sitting on the couch, standing in the kitchen, sleeping in bed...in 4B!!!

I would love to see more of them in 4B, less with Sheldon in 4A.    They could at least learn living with each other without Sheldon, instead of the useless drama like, "...don't ask me why I married him" or how she implies she's not happy.   It's crap

 

[JE7]

It may be just age as they say memory is the first to go, but I can't remember the last time I saw 4b 

[Carlos]

3 hours ago, meka3000 said:

Why was the resolution bs?

We?  I think you mean "some of us".  As not everyone sees this as sloppy.

We know YOU don't see it as sloppy but most of us do. You have your opinion we have ours , OK?

[Tensor]

2 minutes ago, Kasey said:

While I could see that Leonard would have a hard time breaking from Sheldon as they are friends.  BUT I think that it's. been. long. enough.  Settle the matter and let us move on. 

Well then again, maybe Lenny did move on but you know that was cut to include a Shamy skype convo...

I don't buy the Leonard is having a hard time breaking from him.    He tried to move out before, it was only Penny and Sheldon's inability to accept Leonard moving over to Penny's, not Leonard's problems that prevented it.  Where was his hesitancy then?   He displayed no problem after Sheldon left, and gee, I don't remember him having a problem not eating to a schedule in season six.f  Penny and him spent plenty of dinners eating spaghetti with each other.  

Now, this season, he's stuck on thai food night?  He has trouble signing the document he tossed into the trash?  That's just chickenshit writing.  It's the writers being afraid to break them up, with retconned reasons, similar to how they regressed characters.