Ship Zone [Spoilers] Lenny: Season 9

[meka3000]

10 minutes ago, JE7 said:

It may be just age as they say memory is the first to go, but I can't remember the last time I saw 4b 

The Opening Night Excitation.

[4everlenny]

Having trouble quoting on my phone. Yes there is more to Lenny than their interactions with Sheldon, but we seldom get to see this in most episodes. Just speaking for myself here; the best Lenny is alone Lenny. This is why I personally want living arrangements to change. As I've stated before, Johnny and Kaley are magical on the screen in Leonard and Penny alone scenes. I DO like this season better than last, because by marrying them the writers are sort of forced to write them as a couple for the most part.(something they forgot last season when they were engaged). I just love these 2 alone, one on one, and I know there is more of a chance of this if they lived alone. This is what makes it maddening to me.

[Tensor]

12 minutes ago, JE7 said:

It may be just age as they say memory is the first to go, but I can't remember the last time I saw 4b 

I think it was The Mystery Date Observation, with Leonard in it.  It could have been a newer one with just Penny or the other women.   It's indicative of it's reduced usage that it's difficult to remember.  

4 minutes ago, 4everlenny said:

Having trouble quoting on my phone. Yes there is more to Lenny than their interactions with Sheldon, but we seldom get to see this in most episodes. Just speaking for myself here; the best Lenny is alone Lenny. This is why I personally want living arrangements to change. As I've stated before, Johnny and Kaley are magical on the screen in Leonard and Penny alone scenes. I DO like this season better than last, because by marrying them the writers are sort of forced to write them as a couple for the most part.(something they forgot last season when they were engaged). I just love these 2 alone, one on one, and I know there is more of a chance of this if they lived alone. This is what makes it maddening to me.

This is so spot on.  Other's may like the drama, others may like other couples,  I prefer seeing them together, like they were with the painting kit from the dirty store, being sweet to each other, working together, without the stupid made up drama the writers seem to uselessly throw into their relationship. 

[meka3000]

41 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I don't buy the Leonard is having a hard time breaking from him.    He tried to move out before, it was only Penny and Sheldon's inability to accept Leonard moving over to Penny's, not Leonard's problems that prevented it.  Where was his hesitancy then?   He displayed no problem after Sheldon left, and gee, I don't remember him having a problem not eating to a schedule in season six.

It was easy for him not to worry about Sheldon or look back at Sheldon with nostalgic fondness IN THAT EPISODE, because HE WAS PISSED OFF AT HIM.  It's easy for people to see the worst in things/people and not see them with any fondness when your mad.  Take this thread.  So many people have become paranoid over what tptb will do with Lenny just because of these last two years.  Where as before that, it wasn't AS BIG AN ISSUE.  And shippers here in general were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, because generally some perceived tptb were making them happy back then as opposed to today where some in general believe they are out to get them.

Same with Leonard, it's easy to look back at Sheldon and the living conditions with nostalgic fondness when your NOT MAD AT THE PERSON.

 

Quote

Now, this season, he's stuck on thai food night?  He has trouble signing the document he tossed into the trash?  That's just chickenshit writing.

 

No, that's NUANCED writing that is based on specific feelings at specific times.

Edited January 31, 2016 by meka3000

[3ku11]

I also dont buy Leonard revealed he cheated as  he was a fraud of loosing Penny. If so why wait two years? Why reveal on your wedding day? Leonard is a smart guy, emotionally ehhh lol. He obviously didn't think loosing Penny would happen by telling her you cheated two years ago? And why was Penny calm? I know shes grown. Butcome on we know how Penny feels about liars and cheats. She should of been pissed. Its almost screw cannon characterization or continuity. Throw it out tge window for manufactured drama. Imo sloppy writing. I mean He could of told her about Mandy any time, having dinner etc. Being alone etc. Why then? Simple he wss subconsciously sabotaging. And writers were going for manufactured drama. I mean Mandy has worked at Cal Tech for years. They know she existed. They diddnt just pick her out of thin air. They think Dramatic Lenny is watchable. Its not.

Edited January 31, 2016 by 3ku11

[meka3000]

35 minutes ago, Carlos said:

We know YOU don't see it as sloppy but most of us do. You have your opinion we have ours , OK?

And I can respond to these opinions with my opinions if I feel like it (within reason), just like you can respond to my opinions with your opinions if you feel like it (within reason).

Just now, 3ku11 said:

They think Dramatic Lenny is watchable. Its not.

YMMV

[Kasey]

37 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I don't buy the Leonard is having a hard time breaking from him.    He tried to move out before, it was only Penny and Sheldon's inability to accept Leonard moving over to Penny's, not Leonard's problems that prevented it.  Where was his hesitancy then?   He displayed no problem after Sheldon left, and gee, I don't remember him having a problem not eating to a schedule in season six.f  Penny and him spent plenty of dinners eating spaghetti with each other.  

Now, this season, he's stuck on thai food night?  He has trouble signing the document he tossed into the trash?  That's just chickenshit writing.  It's the writers being afraid to break them up, with retconned reasons, similar to how they regressed characters.  

Preach it...

[Tensor]

4 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I also dont buy Leonard revealed he cheated as  he was a fraud of loosing Penny. If so why wait two years? Why reveal on your wedding day? He could of told her about Mandy any time. Why then? Simple he wss subconsciously sabotaging. And writers were going for manufactured drama. I mean Mandy has worked at Cal Tech for years. They know she existed. They diddnt just pick her out of thin air. They think Dramatic Lenny is watchable. Its not.

Yep, very much like the manufactured "oh, I can't leave Sheldon."  It's bullshit, and just the writers being afraid to separate them.  They continue to contrive situations, to keep from moving them apart.   

[3ku11]

Leonard should of moved out like in s6. At this point can Tptb justify it? No. It must be they don't want to break up L and S and P arch. As that it breaks the situation and comedy.

Edited January 31, 2016 by 3ku11

[Kasey]

1 minute ago, Tensor said:

Yep, very much like the manufactured "oh, I can't leave Sheldon."  It's bullshit, and just the writers being afraid to separate them.  They continue to contrive situations, to keep from moving them apart.   

Tell us how you really feel  just kidding.

But you're right.  It's just a way to keep Sheldon between Leonard and Penny and I don't mean to break them up.  But to be involved in everything that is Lenny...

[meka3000]

Just now, 3ku11 said:

Leonard should of moved out like in s6. At this point can Tptb justify it? No.

Sure they can, by it being believable for their characters.

Just now, Kasey said:

Tell us how you really feel  just kidding.

But you're right.  It's just a way to keep Sheldon between Leonard and Penny and I don't mean to break them up.  But to be involved in everything that is Lenny...

Like thanksgiving in the kitchen.

Edited January 31, 2016 by meka3000

[3ku11]

1 minute ago, meka3000 said:

Sure they can, by it being believable for their characters.

Like thanksgiving.

Belivable lol oh yip.

[JE7]

It's really the only option guys and gals

Edited January 31, 2016 by JE7

[meka3000]

32 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

-I also dont buy Leonard revealed he cheated as  he was a fraud of loosing Penny. If so why wait two years? Why reveal on your wedding day? Leonard is a smart guy, emotionally ehhh lol.

-And why was Penny calm? I know shes grown. Butcome on we know how Penny feels about liars and cheats. She should of been pissed. Its almost screw cannon characterization or continuity. Throw it out tge window for manufactured drama. Imo sloppy writing.

-I mean He could of told her about Mandy any time, having dinner etc. Being alone etc. Why then? Simple he wss subconsciously sabotaging. And writers were going for manufactured drama.

-Because he needed an excuse to postpone the wedding because he was unsure of himself.  Thus it became a bigger deal when he needed it to be, as opposed to before when Howard allegedly calmed him down about it.

-Because she was trying to keep her cool about it.  She has given liars and cheats a second chance as well. Also Penny is not a robot who just reacts to specific information with just one mood.   Sometimes the nuance of the situation is something she takes into consideration, why shouldn't the love of her life be of any consideration in how she reacts?

-Yes he was subconsciously sabotaging himself, but that doesn't necessarily make it manufactured drama.

 

I think many here have become bulls seeing red and have been interpreting modern day Lenny in the least charitable and most judgmental view possible.

19 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Belivable lol oh yip.

That's not how you felt about it an hour ago:

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

No Meka your right its not out of character for them. But its still maddening. Especially seeing being married has changed things.

What changed in the last hour?

57 minutes ago, 4everlenny said:

Having trouble quoting on my phone. Yes there is more to Lenny than their interactions with Sheldon, but we seldom get to see this in most episodes. Just speaking for myself here; the best Lenny is alone Lenny. This is why I personally want living arrangements to change. As I've stated before, Johnny and Kaley are magical on the screen in Leonard and Penny alone scenes. I DO like this season better than last, because by marrying them the writers are sort of forced to write them as a couple for the most part.(something they forgot last season when they were engaged). I just love these 2 alone, one on one, and I know there is more of a chance of this if they lived alone. This is what makes it maddening to me.

I love seeing them alone too.  Believe me I do. But I also accept the fact that the show is not solely about them being alone, and that Sheldon is very much a part of their lives, and a part of the show.

Edited January 31, 2016 by meka3000

[Kasey]

11 minutes ago, JE7 said:

It's really the only option guys and gals

I'm not trying to feed them...honest!

[3ku11]

I hope 200th they have a Lenny reception. Maybe not re do.wedding.  But a reception. Invite friends and families. Speeches. Imagine drunk.SHELDON? Lol. They missed so many opportunities. Even the guys fighting tobe best man.

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Leonard should of moved out like in s6. At this point can Tptb justify it? No.

That's just it.  They've made the situations more contrived, since season six, to keep them together.  Ignoring previous situations, or trying to explain around situations, to the point that any situation now, that does separate them, will look even more  contrived.  Any reason they come up with now, to explain how they move out, could have been done anytime since season six.  

Are they or Leonard pissed at Sheldon?  They've done this several times.  They finally decide to simply move out, again, it's been done before, with a reverse on the moving out.  I'd say they could make Penny pregnant, but that's a contrivance too.

[Kasey]

14 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I hope 200th they have a Lenny reception. Maybe not re do.wedding.  But a reception. Invite friends and families. Speeches. Imagine drunk.SHELDON? Lol. They missed so many opportunities. Even the guys fighting tobe best man.

I would bet that the 200th would be the Shamy proposal.  BUT they can still do something nice for Lenny - a reception or a honeymoon.  Something that focuses on the sweetness and love between Lenny.  Let the jokes and the funnies be with the other characters.  Let's have some sweet, Lenny love shine through...

[meka3000]

15 minutes ago, Carlos said:

No,  that's CHICKENSHIT writing and you being a contrarian for the sake of it.

-Just because you think I'm being a contrarian for the sake of it, doesn't make it so.  Also you've got nothing to back up that THAT wasn't nuanced writing that was based on specific feelings at specific times.  How about an argument to back up why Leonard being angry doesn't factor into his feelings at specific times?

Edited January 31, 2016 by meka3000

[JE7]

Remember carlos, take deep breaths and think happy thoughts lol

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Belivable lol oh yip.

The actors talk about how slow the characters move, how well the characters are written and and how the show has earned the right to dig so deep into the characters, because it makes them so believable.  But in recent seasons, the writers ignore the progression, or worse take steps backward with the characters, making it unbelievable, to go for the cheap joke.  They want to write jokes, they should write jokes.  They've show they can do it.  They want to dig deep into the characters, and progress them, do it.  Again, they have shown they can do it.  

But, over the last several seasons, they have taken somewhat of a middle road.  Try to dig into the characters, flesh them out, but if they need a joke, ignore the progression.  If they want to do the character progression and make it a comedy, do the character progression and write the jokes around that, don't regress the characters for the joke.   Is this type of writing hard?  Yes, yes it is.  It requires work and a lot of effort to write like that.  But if that is the way they want to go, put in the work.  But to try and tell us how much they like getting into the character progression, only to blow off that progression for the joke.  Going for the cheap joke, destroying the progressing you claim you want to make, smacks of lazy writing.  

 It seems the writers can't make up their minds, at times,  whether they want to do good comedy, or whether they want to do a good job of delving into the drama.  When they do either one, they do it pretty well.  When they try to do both, at the same time, it more often than not comes out as  a half assed job of both or wildly inconsistent.   

[meka3000]

2 minutes ago, Tensor said:

The actors talk about how slow the characters move, how well the characters are written and and how the show has earned the right to dig so deep into the characters, because it makes them so believable.  But in recent seasons, the writers ignore the progression, or worse take steps backward with the characters, making it unbelievable, to go for the cheap joke.  They want to write jokes, they should write jokes.  They've show they can do it.  They want to dig deep into the characters, and progress them, do it.  Again, they have shown they can do it.  

But, over the last several seasons, they have taken somewhat of a middle road.  Try to dig into the characters, flesh them out, but if they need a joke, ignore the progression.  If they want to do the character progression and make it a comedy, do the character progression and write the jokes around that, don't regress the characters for the joke.   Is this type of writing hard?  Yes, yes it is.  It requires work and a lot of effort to write like that.  But if that is the way they want to go, put in the work.  But to try and tell us how much they like getting into the character progression, only to blow off that progression for the joke.  Going for the cheap joke, destroying the progressing you claim you want to make, smacks of lazy writing.  

 It seems the writers can't make up their minds, at times,  whether they want to do good comedy, or whether they want to do a good job of delving into the drama.  When they do either one, they do it pretty well.  When they try to do both, at the same time, it more often than not comes out as  a half assed job of both or wildly inconsistent.   

Except Penny living with Leonard from now on, no matter what apartment it is, IS PROGRESS. Leonard and Penny NO LONGER sleep alone. It also fits with the slow progress they are talking about.  Yes this step is a baby step, but it's a baby step none the less.

[3ku11]

8 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

Except Penny living with Leonard from now on, no matter what apartment it is, IS PROGRESS. Leonard and Penny NO LONGER sleep alone. It also fits with the slow progress they are talking about.  Yes this step is a baby step, but it's a baby step none the less.

I dont see how that's a difference. Or progress. Lenny have lived in either apt for years now. I think it was referenced Penny still sleeps at 4b. Progress is not Still living with Sheldon. Even if its alone. They have slept alone since s3. To me progress would be living alone.

[meka3000]

16 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I dont see how that's a difference. Or progress. Lenny have lived in either apt for years now.

The difference is they no longer sleep in either apartment INDIVIDUALLY.  Whether it's 4A or 4B they both sleep together at night.  Gone are the days where they sleep INDIVIDUALLY while still being in a relationship.  They now sleep together EVERY NIGHT. 

[Tensor]

 

22 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I dont see how that's a difference. Or progress. Lenny have lived in either apt for years now. I think it was referenced Penny still sleeps at 4b. Progress is not Still living with Sheldon. Even if its alone. They have slept alone since s3. To me progress would be living alone.

The problem is the writers have, at various times, regress the characters to the point where when they put them back to where they where previously, it looks like a progression.   Or, they concoct silly situations to keep them from progressing, to the point where when thy do progress them, it's more like, jeez it took you long enough to get here, rather than a natural progression.