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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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Jenafan & Koops, I kinda agree with you both on your earlier comments ... or maybe I'm in between or whatever, Idk.

I do think the relationship is skewed but I don't think that this means there isn't any give and take here. Both are flawed people, obviously, and as much as they have this great communication going on they're not always on the same wavelength when it comes to what's important in their relationship. Amy values intimacy and displays of affection more than Sheldon does - or at least that's probably the impression she gets when he's mocking all those hippie-dippie things all the time and some of his remarks come across as really mean spirited (mostly throwaway jokes for the show but jeez, Sheldon!). And don't get me wrong, I know he's come around for most of that by now but I have no doubt that from Amy's perspective she thinks she has to walk on eggshells around him cause he's a literal flight risk (see S7 finale) and that she tries extra hard to be the perfect girlfriend for him to get something in return (see her "WHAT THE HELL SHELDON!?" reaction). And yes I'd go as far and say that this may lead to her overlooking things that Sheldon does only for her sake.

As for Sheldon's side what I think is missing is that kind of talk that he and Penny had once - the thing about youtube changing the voting system. A trivial issue for most people but very upsetting for him. And while his and Amy's minds think alike for the most part I'm not entirely sure that Amy gets that part of him. Like when he asks about the Flash. For us as the audience it's easy to see how this is important to him and even how him asking her in the first place, while bad timing, still may be a sign of something bigger on the horizon (was this his awkward way to talk about commitment/her moving in/proposal??? etc.). We as the audience get an explanation when he talks with Lenny and we can easily put two and two together. Another example off the top of my head would be when they think about investing in the comic book store. Sheldon is the one pointing out that the others should consult with their fiancé/wife about the investment - and then goes on to ask Amy about her opinion implying that she has that same importance in his life (and that was before the ILY2). In both cases Amy doesn't have that additional information so she's left the with the impression of Sheldon being obsessed with super heroes and not thinking about her. (It surely doesn't help when he's throwing another dismissive comment into the mix, ughh)

So yeah, I think for their reconciliation they need to get these two sides in sync somehow with a nice heartfelt talk.

As an aside, if there's one beef I have with the show it's that for the sake of comedy the interests are so gender segregated, as in "the guys like geeky stuff and the gals think it's stupid". I loved it when the girls had their nerd fight over Thor's hammer but that seemed to have been forgotten about as the show went on. It would have been so great if by now they found at least one franchise they could all enjoy and be excited about!

I love that story, too! Well done, Ylva! <3

Thanks April! That's really inspired. I very much agree with you, especially the bold part, as I thougt about the same thing. While Sheldon's problems might seem minuscule to others, they pose him great discomfort. I agree that Amy doesn't get the full magnitude of his ideosynchrasies. She has a rudimental understanding of his mindset though.

Once they are willing to listen to each other without judging, to tell each other their true feelings despite the risk of getting hurt, then they'll find out they've been on the same page all along.

What a woman wants is a reaction. What a man wants is a woman.

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Aww guys, thank you so much for all the nice things you said about my fanfic!! Amy Fowler, I did make it happen. It's called The Adolescence Repossession :-)

There isn't enough squealing I can do that'll express your fix. It was beautiful and adorable! Loved it :) thank you!

 

I don't agree with this either, tbh. Sheldon has done plenty of stuff with Amy that she wanted to do (again, or he wouldn't be where he is today) and I'd say that especially early on in their relationship and in the early days of the RA, there was tons of stuff in there that there is no way Sheldon added because he really really wanted to. He might have grown to appreciate that with time, but the boyfriend/girlfriend singalongs, Date Nights, all their anniversary protocols are the first things that come to mind from back then that have Amy written all over it. Actually, I'd say that 50% of the times we hear the RA being brought up it's to do with protocols for romance and Date Nights, which I'm sure Amy has an immense saying on. Again, the RA isn't just Sheldon's document, and 8x03 actually gave us a great insight on how everything operates within its contexts and it's very much a team effort.

Amy has also been shown to roll her eyes and ridicule Sheldon's hobbies on more than one occasion. But when Sheldon tells her romantic stuff like having fancy dinner dates or holding hands is nonsense, everyone gets up in arms about it about how selfish and insensitive he is. When Amy tells him that his action figures are toys, or that the shows he likes are cheap and stupid, or that he's a child for liking the stuff that he does, nobody bats an eye. How is that different? Why do only Amy's feelings about romantic conventions matter and Sheldon's feelings about the things that are important to him don't? Amy went along with the stuff he wanted to do, yes, but she often did so rolling here eyes just as Sheldon has done with some of the stuff she wanted to do. We have seen Sheldon learn to appreciate the stuff Amy likes (in Raiders even when he was actively trying not to) and embrace aspects of romance that he derided in the past, but we have NEVER seen Amy come to appreciate the stuff Sheldon likes. But we have also seen them both make efforts to make the other happy, especially last season on Sheldon's part (him wanting to do Prom right the most blatant example). Also, like we have said many times, Sheldon's reluctance to go along with some of the things Amy craves have nothing to do with him being difficult or stubborn, but with having some serious hungups. Amy was willing to let him set boundaries because of that, but, more importantly, because she had agreed on A ("With the understanding that nothing changes, whatsoever") only to then decide she wanted B after she signed on the dotted line. It's like buying an apartment and then deciding you want to add a garden and a pool and have it spread across two floors instead of one and blaming the estate agency for not giving you what you want. Does that mean she is not right in being frustrated if her needs have changed and she craves more from him but she's stuck within the restrictions of what she had agreed on? Of course not. But at the same time, she's not just the poor victim, and I don't like that the show often gives the impression that she's just like one of those women who want to change their man into what they want them to be, because that's not cute or charming, it's pathetic and creepy and not something I would root for.

Neither of them is perfect in my mind nor a martyr, and neither of them exclusively bends to the will of the other. There's examples on the show of both. Amy is patient and understanding at times and she is pushy and a nag at others. Sheldon is willing to compromise for her and consider things he would never consider for anyone else at times and he is a devious loophole abuser and selfish at others.

I frankly think that one line about a closet, that is meant to be a joke gone awry, is being blown out of proportion here a little to make some case for everything that explains why Amy is the way she is. I mean, even in the context of this Girls Night, Penny was forced by Amy and Bernadette to call her dad, but yet everyone is commenting only on how Amy is being forced to call her mom and that makes her a pushover. Or Amy refuses a makeover, despite the fact that it's clear the girls have been pushing for that for a while, and yet we focus on that one joke about the FB status that she didn't even change in the end. Does Amy's past have an effect on who she is today? Of course. But it's really hard to also tell whether Amy's the way she is because of the things that happened to her or the things that happened to her happened because of the way she is. Same with Sheldon and his past. Correlation does not imply causation. 

First off, I agree with most of what you say koops. They are both as bad as each other, but I think with Amy she accepts a lot more stuff and doesn't necessarily kick up as much of a fuss about doing things as say Sheldon does when Amy wants him to do something. I think thats what makes people favour Amy rather than Sheldon. Cause Sheldon's so good at covering up what he really feels sometimes everyone just assumes he's not fazed were as its a lot clearer with Amy when she's effected by something, even more so as the years in their relationship went on. I think cause Amy's a little more like 'i'll give it a try' (yes Sheldon is STARTING to do that don't get me wrong) i.e with Doctor Who, she sat there and watched it just to be with him and enjoy him watching something he enjoys, she even makes light of the situation by cracking jokes, where as it rarely happens with Sheldon, and when it does with Sheldon he has to cast an awkwardness over it and complains to hell about it and THEN he'll try it. I think its just the way he handles the situation, like the way he prejudges it. And the more he repeats things the less of a judgement there is on it. He said he'd never fall in love now he won't leave her alone. Where as Amy's learnt much earlier on to just let her guard down and see what happens or else why would she had stayed with him for so long? He prejudged relationships entirely at the beginning then learnt to like it where as now Amy's removed herself from his life he can't seem to prejudged like before, cause he genuinely doesn't know whats gonna happen. Granted yes at the beginning Amy prejudged relationships but I'm sure after the 3rd or 4th date with Sheldon those walls started to come down and she wanted to see where it was going to go. It's almost like prejudging is another comfort blanket for Sheldon just like the RA is. Where as Amy's flourished a little quicker than him and grown up. I think thats why it hits Amy harder than Sheldon and everyone goes running to Amy's defence. Them being so alike is a blessing and a bloody curse at times. He knows Amy's changing him why can't he just embrace it and accept it, its supper frustrating and that makes people, not full on angry, but like 'whats the point in siding with him' angry.

Secondly, I apologise for blowing the closet thing outta proportion. I get easier wrapped up in new stuff and look way to much into it. I guess only time will tell about which made what happen. I do think the closet thing was abit much... borderline dark comedy right there. And in terms of the pushing Amy to make the phone call, I guess cause Penny's such a careful spirit just casually dropping the M boom on her dad wasn't a big deal to her. I dunno, I've not seen how Kaley portrayed it but I guess cause Amy's bit more tight lipped about everything it just seemed like she was pushed into calling her mum. That and her relationship with her mum is way different to Pennys with her dad and I'm sure the girls know exactly what Amy's relationship is like which, again, makes it look like they pushed her. Also because she's also a lot more naive to things doesn't help, she has no idea what to do over a break up. Most people going on Facebook and saying your single would be the first thing normal people would do cause its 'social convention' nowadays. Not to ring your mum and explain everything.

I could completely be interpreting what your saying but I just thought I'd voice my opinions on why everyone jumps to Amy's defence all the time. Not speaking for everyone of course. I feel for Sheldon as much as I do for Amy but as Amys more open its harder to do it with Sheldon. Which could explain why no ones really broached the relationship topic with Sheldon cause they don't know how to comfort him. Except maybe Leonard but he's got his own woes atm. 

I really would like a reconciliation ep between Sheldon and Amy like the one that Mary Albright and Dick Solomon had in 3rd Rock from the Sun where they end up locked in their university's library and end up having to stay the night there. They end up getting drunk and having sex. lol. While Shamy doesn't necessarily have to get that intimate yet, it would be a funny episode if they got locked in the university's library, Amy's lab or Sheldon's office. This would be a good opportunity for both characters to be hippies and express how they're really feeling and what they both want/need from their relationship. It would be so sweet if during the conversation Amy tells Sheldon she's still mad at him but that they're like moons and planets revolving around each other constantly and that she just can't stay away from Sheldon for long. I can also see Sheldon saying that her words make her want to kiss him with Amy replying that he could try Kohlinar if he needs to but Sheldon simply says, "I don't want to and I don't care that it's not date night. My desire is to kiss you right now."

 omg....Excuse me for a minute...... *lets imagination wonder*

He should buy her a pair earrings to match the tiara.

that would literally be beyond adorable

 

I dunno if I'm gonna make it to the air date at this rate...

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On the topic of why people "side" with Amy, I think some of it (as someone who "sides" with her a little) is how the writers extract comedy from Sheldon's character.  He is casually cruel almost by default, and while often he's oblivious and just sees it as frankness, he has the capacity to be intentionally mean, as episode two underscores.  That was fine in earlier seasons, when 1) he didn't direct the nastiness at Amy as much, if at all, and 2) she seemed to have more starch  in her.  Now a throwaway line like saying he goes wobbly on the relationship thing except those times when she "worships" him are pretty upsetting for Amy fans to hear.  That's just one example, but it's cumulative, and  he never gets his comeuppance.  The writers are really hanging too much on Jim Parsons' considerable acting skills to soften Sheldon up.  Have Amy push back a little, or dial down the stuff directed at her.  Particularly jabs at her intelligence or discipline, it's out of character for her to just swallow that biologists and math jab from last season.  She's an accomplished scientist he should treat that with respect.

Edited by Boonaroma
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I don't agree with this either, tbh. Sheldon has done plenty of stuff with Amy that she wanted to do (again, or he wouldn't be where he is today) and I'd say that especially early on in their relationship and in the early days of the RA, there was tons of stuff in there that there is no way Sheldon added because he really really wanted to. He might have grown to appreciate that with time, but the boyfriend/girlfriend singalongs, Date Nights, all their anniversary protocols are the first things that come to mind from back then that have Amy written all over it. Actually, I'd say that 50% of the times we hear the RA being brought up it's to do with protocols for romance and Date Nights, which I'm sure Amy has an immense saying on. Again, the RA isn't just Sheldon's document, and 8x03 actually gave us a great insight on how everything operates within its contexts and it's very much a team effort.

Amy has also been shown to roll her eyes and ridicule Sheldon's hobbies on more than one occasion. But when Sheldon tells her romantic stuff like having fancy dinner dates or holding hands is nonsense, everyone gets up in arms about it about how selfish and insensitive he is. When Amy tells him that his action figures are toys, or that the shows he likes are cheap and stupid, or that he's a child for liking the stuff that he does, nobody bats an eye. How is that different? Why do only Amy's feelings about romantic conventions matter and Sheldon's feelings about the things that are important to him don't? Amy went along with the stuff he wanted to do, yes, but she often did so rolling here eyes just as Sheldon has done with some of the stuff she wanted to do. We have seen Sheldon learn to appreciate the stuff Amy likes (in Raiders even when he was actively trying not to) and embrace aspects of romance that he derided in the past, but we have NEVER seen Amy come to appreciate the stuff Sheldon likes. But we have also seen them both make efforts to make the other happy, especially last season on Sheldon's part (him wanting to do Prom right the most blatant example). Also, like we have said many times, Sheldon's reluctance to go along with some of the things Amy craves have nothing to do with him being difficult or stubborn, but with having some serious hungups. Amy was willing to let him set boundaries because of that, but, more importantly, because she had agreed on A ("With the understanding that nothing changes, whatsoever") only to then decide she wanted B after she signed on the dotted line. It's like buying an apartment and then deciding you want to add a garden and a pool and have it spread across two floors instead of one and blaming the estate agency for not giving you what you want. Does that mean she is not right in being frustrated if her needs have changed and she craves more from him but she's stuck within the restrictions of what she had agreed on? Of course not. But at the same time, she's not just the poor victim, and I don't like that the show often gives the impression that she's just like one of those women who want to change their man into what they want them to be, because that's not cute or charming, it's pathetic and creepy and not something I would root for.

Neither of them is perfect in my mind nor a martyr, and neither of them exclusively bends to the will of the other. There's examples on the show of both. Amy is patient and understanding at times and she is pushy and a nag at others. Sheldon is willing to compromise for her and consider things he would never consider for anyone else at times and he is a devious loophole abuser and selfish at others.

I frankly think that one line about a closet, that is meant to be a joke gone awry, is being blown out of proportion here a little to make some case for everything that explains why Amy is the way she is. I mean, even in the context of this Girls Night, Penny was forced by Amy and Bernadette to call her dad, but yet everyone is commenting only on how Amy is being forced to call her mom and that makes her a pushover. Or Amy refuses a makeover, despite the fact that it's clear the girls have been pushing for that for a while, and yet we focus on that one joke about the FB status that she didn't even change in the end. Does Amy's past have an effect on who she is today? Of course. But it's really hard to also tell whether Amy's the way she is because of the things that happened to her or the things that happened to her happened because of the way she is. Same with Sheldon and his past. Correlation does not imply causation. 

As always, Koops, you comments get my thinking juices going.   Some very good points were made here, and I like your viewpoint. even if I may still disagree on some of it.

It seems my opinions have sparked several replies, including several from you.  I have not had a chance to catch up on all the reading.    So, I may come back with additional commentary later, but please keep it coming.

Edited by jenafan

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I am looking forward to this episode and curious to see how things play out on screen. 

What I like most about what I have read so far:

Getting some of Amy's perspective (her resistance here says a lot) even though it is still unclear what exactly brought her to this point.

Some more of Amy's backstory with her mom.  Guess need to see if this a one off and never mentioned again.  If the sin closet was a the time out place, I could be down with that.  Not sure if it's any different than standing facing a corner (as I did many times as a child...sigh!). If it was something along the lines of the movie Carrie (going more the abuse route), that's sad.  However, not sure if TPTB plan to flesh that out.  If it was played as a one off for a joke, we'll never see it again.

Curious to see Sheldon's reaction in the tag when Penny talks about their girls night.   

I am not bothered by the girls or the guys here. One could say Leonard's nuptials sort of trumps Sheldon's issues now.  Penny/Bernadette are trying to help Amy get over it and this is what I would expect from friends.  Without Amy saying otherwise, they believe this is what she wants.  Good friends tend to support one another.  Plus, it could be argued since they don't understand the Shamy style/approach to relationship, they may believe they are helping Amy by moving on.  The closet thing again...I think is joke and for whatever reason Amy went along.    

Faith is a lil restored that this break up (even though not officially terminated via the RA and questionable if it even made it to FB) may play out in a way that makes sense.  Hope is loading that Shamy will find their way back to the quirky unique couple that others will never get...except when they finally do get back together they will be that much stronger because they both have communicated openly and honestly about what each person wants/needs. 

 

 

Edited by Denise07
clarity/typos
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Amy holds a lot more power in this relationship than people give credit for.   She has that boy,  hook line and sinker and has for a very long time. 

I couldn't agree with this more.   Well said, nickelette.

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On the topic of why people "side" with Amy, I think some of it (as someone who "sides" with her a little) is how the writers extract comedy from Sheldon's character.  He is casually cruel almost by default, and while often he's oblivious and just sees it as frankness, he has the capacity to be intentionally mean, as episode two underscores.  That was fine in earlier seasons, when 1) he didn't direct the nastiness at Amy as much, if at all, and 2) she seemed to have more starch  in her.  Now a throwaway line like saying he goes wobbly on the relationship thing except those times when she "worships" him are pretty upsetting for Amy fans to hear.  That's just one example, but it's cumulative, and  he never gets his comeuppance.  The writers are really hanging too much on Jim Parsons' considerable acting skills to soften Sheldon up.  Have Amy push back a little, or dial down the stuff directed at her.  Particularly jabs at her intelligence or discipline, it's out of character for her to just swallow that biologists and math jab from last season.  She's an accomplished scientist he should treat that with respect.

Yeah, I was checking that other episode for my earlier comment and jeez, there were some unnecessarily harsh lines in there - even as late as S8! I do think they made an attempt to soften him especially with the ILY2 from the prom. Correct me if I'm wrong but the really shippy high notes of S8 all came after that particular door has been opened and the writers have allowed him to be more affectionate. But they still fall back onto that kind of casually cruel humour ever so often.

I don't think it's necessary to use this mean-spiritedness to get some laughs out of Shamy and I do hope that after the reconciliation they do make some further effort into a more harmonious direction. Shamy can easily still make everybody else uncomfortable - that's their thing after all!

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Yeah, I was checking that other episode for my earlier comment and jeez, there were some unnecessarily harsh lines in there - even as late as S8! I do think they made an attempt to soften him especially with the ILY2 from the prom. Correct me if I'm wrong but the really shippy high notes of S8 all came after that particular door has been opened and the writers have allowed him to be more affectionate. But they still fall back onto that kind of casually cruel humour ever so often.

I don't think it's necessary to use this mean-spiritedness to get some laughs out of Shamy and I do hope that after the reconciliation they do make some further effort into a more harmonious direction. Shamy can easily still make everybody else uncomfortable - that's their thing after all!

Excellent post April! The TBBT writers have the unfortunate tendency of occasionally making harsh jokes for the sake of cheap laughs. When it comes to these mean, one-off jokes I tend not to look too much into them as they're about as meaningful as Faisal :icon_twisted:

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Amy wears ear rings and uses make up in Prom, and Sheldon finds her pretty.....!

Indeed, yes.   I thought the writers were being inconsistent with the ear piercing thing because Amy was also wearing earrings in her lab when Sheldon swallowed the spitball.   I will just make myself believe they were magnetic back earrings.  

Nonetheless, I think earrings make a huge difference in her appearance, and she really does look pretty wearing studs.

Amy may not be ready to change her wardrobe, but I can see her allowing herself some liberties at Penny's influence.   Amy is extremely attractive, but hides it very well.  Sheldon likes her for who she is and has no need for her to embellish herself to want her, but he is not a robot, although he likes to act like one.   I am sure that if Amy were to step it up a bit, he would definitely take notice, and it will have an effect on him.

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Excellent post April! The TBBT writers have the unfortunate tendency of occasionally making harsh jokes for the sake of cheap laughs. When it comes to these mean, one-off jokes I tend not to look too much into them as they're about as meaningful as Faisal :icon_twisted:

Yeah, I try not to take them too serious either. But they do make a damn good case if you want to side with Amy on this.

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I am looking forward to this episode and curious to see how things play out on screen. 

What I like most about what I have read so far:

Getting some of Amy's perspective (her resistance here says a lot) even though it is still unclear what exactly brought her to this point.

Some more of Amy's backstory with her mom.  Guess need to see if this a one off and never mentioned again.  If the sin closet was a the time out place, I could be down with that.  Not sure if it's any different than standing facing a corner (as I did many times as a child...sigh!). If it was something along the lines of the movie Carrie (going more the abuse route), that's sad.  However, not sure if TPTB plan to flesh that out.  If it was played as a one off for a joke, we'll never see it again.

Curious to see Sheldon's reaction in the tag when Penny talks about their girls night.   

I am not bothered by the girls or the guys here. One could say Leonard's nuptials sort of trumps Sheldon's issues now.  Penny/Bernadette are trying to help Amy get over it and this is what I would expect from friends.  Without Amy saying otherwise, they believe this is what she wants.  Good friends tend to support one another.  Plus, it could be argued since they don't understand the Shamy style/approach to relationship, they may believe they are helping Amy by moving on.  The closet thing again...I think is joke and for whatever reason Amy went along.    

Faith is a lil restored that this break up (even though not officially terminated via the RA and questionable if it even made it to FB) may play out in a way that makes sense.  Hope is loading that Shamy will find their way back to the quirky unique couple that others will never get...except when they finally do get back together they will be that much stronger because they both have communicated openly and honestly about what each person wants/needs. 

 

 

For me the sin closet was just another one-off joke, which went out of control (especially in the tag), as sometimes happens with the jokes the writers made, it doesn't imply any long-term reaction or problem on Amy's side...but for sure made her mother look a not very pleasant person. I don't understand however why the writers decided to change at some degree this character. Up to now Amy's mother was represented as an old-fashioned, over protective  mother who tried to say some innocent funny lies to her daughter to make her feel less lonely and quirky. Now she appears more judgmental and the closet thing (even if it is still a joke) may appear cruel. I don't know if it was just for the jokes this could create or there is some plot line behind this change...For sure what I got from the episode is Amy's need for independence from the important figures in her life, I don't know if this was the "hidden" message in the story (if there was a hidden message...)

Anyway, after five years together, I do hope Sheldon already knew about the sin closet, I don't remember from the spoilers we got it was supposed to be a secret. My opinion is that his reaction to Amy's name when Penny told him and Leonard about the party is just because maybe that was the first night since the break up his mind had the chance to wander a little, there were so many thing to amuse him, many of his favourite things: he was in R. Fayman's van and supposed to sleep in his Mexico house, he spoke with his friends about super-heroes and science, he had a kind of adventure...so for some time he could "forget"  his problems and then, by simply listening to Amy's name, he returned in the hell he is for sure...

 

 

Edited by mirs1
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But that's what I mean when I say that they get lazy (i.e. they make Sheldon come across as unnecessarily cruel/Amy as unnecessarily pathetic for the sake of a mean joke, like it was the case so often in late S6 and sometimes 7) and also in that they need to be very careful how they frame the whole thing because you want people to root for the couple to be together and understand both sides of the argument, not to only get one side of the argument. Sheldon's head is not an easy one to get into, and I think the writers do him a disservice and YES, definitely rely too much on JP's charms, by framing the story in a way where he often comes across as the one in the wrong, the one that needs to learn, the one that needs to change, even when he's not in the wrong (6x07 or 6x15, for example). I feel like it's so easy to lose track of the fact that he does try hard, he does care and he does have strong feelings if they always write it this way. Which is why I think it would go a great way to "redeem" Sheldon's character in the eyes of the audience if they spent time explaining to us WHY Amy loves him so much and stuck by him for so long. And using this opportunity of confusion on her part for her to rediscover why she loves him, so that the audience can rediscover it with her. 

 

I couldn't have said it better.   This is exactly what we need to see from Amy.    We all know how Sheldon feels, it would be nice to know her side of things.

Edited by jenafan
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Indeed, yes.   I thought the writers were being inconsistent with the ear piercing thing because Amy was also wearing earrings in her lab when Sheldon swallowed the spitball.   I will just make myself believe they were magnetic back earrings.  

Nonetheless, I think earrings make a huge difference in her appearance, and she really does look pretty wearing studs.

Amy may not be ready to change her wardrobe, but I can see her allowing herself some liberties at Penny's influence.   Amy is extremely attractive, but hides it very well.  Sheldon likes her for who she is and has no need for her to embellish herself to want her, but he is not a robot, although he likes to act like one.   I am sure that if Amy were to step it up a bit, he would definitely take notice, and it will have an effect on him.

Hell yeah. At Prom the boy had a panic attack after seeing Amy in her dress and it was very modest, covering more than Penny's, which Sheldon probably saw as Penny's usual. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  Sheldon's head is not an easy one to get into, and I think the writers do him a disservice and YES, definitely rely too much on JP's charms, by framing the story in a way where he often comes across as the one in the wrong, the one that needs to learn, the one that needs to change, even when he's not in the wrong (6x07 or 6x15, for example). I feel like it's so easy to lose track of the fact that he does try hard, he does care and he does have strong feelings if they always write it this way.

 On that note I absolutely love it when they allow Sheldon to open up and see a glimpse of his inner workings. I wish they'd do it more - specifically when he's with Amy. It would also give Jim a bit more to do. He's an excellent actor and I'm sure he'd have no problem selling a softer Sheldon showing a bit more emotional range.

 Which is why I think it would go a great way to "redeem" Sheldon's character in the eyes of the audience if they spent time explaining to us WHY Amy loves him so much and stuck by him for so long. And using this opportunity of confusion on her part for her to rediscover why she loves him, so that the audience can rediscover it with her. 

 If the girls stay on a similarly "supportive" path like the latest ep I could see the topic brought up pretty easily on a girl's night. It could start out with them asking Amy if she thought about going on a date and then a talk could easily unfold about what she would want and it all ends with the realisation that she's basically describing Sheldon.

 I wouldn't want their reconciliation to come from her seeing a promise of things to come in him. I've been debating as to whether or not I'd want her to know about the ring before they reconcile, and I don't think I do now. I think if she knew about it, it would seem to much like she's back with him not because she's rediscovered that he's the one and only for her, but because she's being promised something at the end of the line. And it would come across too much to the audience as if Sheldon had to promise her something to win her back. I think I eventually want her to find out he was planning to propose BEFORE she cooled things off with him, but not before she's already made her mind up that she wants him back.

Same! During the past weeks my mind was racing with scenarios of how they could bring them back together and I don't think any of them had him lead with a proposal. lol

I take it as a good sign that so far nobody else (except maybe his mama) knows about his plans.

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At Prom the boy had a panic attack after seeing Amy in her dress and it was very modest, covering more than Penny's, which Sheldon probably saw as Penny's usual.

Well it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the reason he put so many restrictions in the RA was to protect himself from these types of reactions.   As much as he tries to convince others that he has evolved, he is still human, after all.    Amy has brought Sheldon into the real world where love has won out and it's effects on him cannot be contained by mere will or the words in a document.

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Amy has also been shown to roll her eyes and ridicule Sheldon's hobbies on more than one occasion. But when Sheldon tells her romantic stuff like having fancy dinner dates or holding hands is nonsense, everyone gets up in arms about it about how selfish and insensitive he is. When Amy tells him that his action figures are toys, or that the shows he likes are cheap and stupid, or that he's a child for liking the stuff that he does, nobody bats an eye. How is that different? Why do only Amy's feelings about romantic conventions matter and Sheldon's feelings about the things that are important to him don't? Amy went along with the stuff he wanted to do, yes, but she often did so rolling here eyes just as Sheldon has done with some of the stuff she wanted to do. We have seen Sheldon learn to appreciate the stuff Amy likes (in Raiders even when he was actively trying not to) and embrace aspects of romance that he derided in the past, but we have NEVER seen Amy come to appreciate the stuff Sheldon likes. But we have also seen them both make efforts to make the other happy, especially last season on Sheldon's part (him wanting to do Prom right the most blatant example). Also, like we have said many times, Sheldon's reluctance to go along with some of the things Amy craves have nothing to do with him being difficult or stubborn, but with having some serious hungups. Amy was willing to let him set boundaries because of that, but, more importantly, because she had agreed on A ("With the understanding that nothing changes, whatsoever") only to then decide she wanted B after she signed on the dotted line. It's like buying an apartment and then deciding you want to add a garden and a pool and have it spread across two floors instead of one and blaming the estate agency for not giving you what you want. Does that mean she is not right in being frustrated if her needs have changed and she craves more from him but she's stuck within the restrictions of what she had agreed on? Of course not. But at the same time, she's not just the poor victim, and I don't like that the show often gives the impression that she's just like one of those women who want to change their man into what they want them to be, because that's not cute or charming, it's pathetic and creepy and not something I would root for.

 

Koops I could kiss you for this. Especially the bolded part. That has been my biggest pet peeve on the show. That somehow Amy's feelings matter more than Sheldon's because...? I've never been able to figure out the logic in why, to be honest.

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Some women, especially when are very young (and Amy has lost many things in her youth, so now she's experiencing them), after a break up or a bad period, try to change something in their looks. For me is very telling that she chose not a huge change, as her friends hoped and rooted for, but just to have her ears pierced. It is a small change, which tells me she is not completely ready to move on, and a rebellion more toward her mother than toward Sheldon (she complained also of the clause in the RA against piercings, but first of her mother...) For this I think I let the writers inconsistency go...By the way, the earring Amy wore in the Prom Equivalency were gorgeous!

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Don't get me started on the 'girls aren't geeks thing.  It's my biggest gripe with the show.

Tallin, I hear what you're saying here:

I'm not sure if you're referring to the Sheldon in general, or Sheldon in last two episodes, but either way, I feel like I have to express my (biased) disagreement. I'm working with people like Sheldon for some time now, so my opinion is very much colored with that, so I'm aware my opinion can be biased so, sorry for that. I wouldn't classify Sheldon as cruel, yes, he does have ability to be mean on purpose, but those occasions are quite rare. When he's mean by well, telling what he thinks really, those are very frequent, but unintentional. We all know Sheldon's ability to "think but do not tell" is quite humble. His ability to react properly in social situation isn't quirk he choose, it's feature of his personality. We have to keep in mind that sometimes, only thing that prevents us for doing just the same as Sheldon is our ability to know what is, and isn't appropriate to say. Or can we really claim we never thought someone's hair look like a "duck in an oil spill?" Only thing that "save us" was that we were aware enough to keep our mouth shout. Something that is incredibly hard to do for people like Sheldon. They don't posses good enough "equipment" that would tell them how to "read the room," how to read someone through nonverbal signals, or transfer previous experiences to the new ones. Sheldon probably wouldn't say the same again, he knows her reaction was bad - it was bad to say out loud. But he would say something likely in similar situation, because people like that often can't say the connection, which makes the process of learning how to react in similar situations extremely lengthy and difficult. I honestly think S8 Sheldon is as far as we can get. There's Sheldon who's really trying to be nice to people around. Yes, he fails time to time, but in comparison to S6 I found him Mr. (or Dr.?) Sweet. And in this doses, it's bearable for me. Sure I would selfishly wish Sheldon who is jackass to everyone except Amy, but that would hardly be consistent with his personality. And as much as people would like to just get rid of that characteristic, if that was possible, and he would became socially aware and nice from now on,  it would only show it was really nothing more than his choice, and that all those years, he really wasn't nothing more than cruel or lazy to care. On purpose.

But in order to express why I don't think that's true in regards to Amy, you'll have to indulge my crackpot theory of their relationship.  It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that there are certain people who Sheldon respects and considers his equal. The best example is Beverly.  He's never insulted her, he lavishes praise on her.  He respects her advice.  I'm sure he could and would say the occasional insensitive thing to her, but those statements wouldn't come from a place of disrespect.  But, I would argue, another example is Early Amy.  And Early Amy demanded respect, when she didn't get it she'd defecate Klark Maxwell all over him.

 

At some point, around the episode where she kissed him on the couch, all that changed.  First, she had started to fall for him hard.  Second, it's canon that she gives him all the credit for her social life.  So we have a weaker Amy.  But at the same time, I don't think Sheldon ever did restart his computer at the last save point.  He began to see Amy a compromised somehow.  She now represented something vaguely threatening to his homeostasis, and he rejected her on some level. He put her in the category of people, like Leonard, Penny and his mom, whom he loves and who are essential to his emotional well being, but who on some level, he does not respect.  I love the relationship Sheldon has with those other characters, but I don't want him to marry them, and he certainly should never raise children with them.  Of course I'll people marry disrespectful jerks all the time.  Maybe that's realistic, but it doesn't make for fun TV.    I want him to treat her like he used to treat her.  I don't think that would be inauthentic at all.  

Edited by Boonaroma
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Don't get me started on the 'girls aren't geeks thing.  It's my biggest gripe with the show.

Tallin, I hear what you're saying here:

But in order to express why I don't think that's true in regards to Amy, you'll have to indulge my crackpot theory of their relationship.  It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that there are certain people who Sheldon respects and considers his equal. The best example is Beverly.  He's never insulted her, he lavishes praise on her.  He respects her advice.  I'm sure he could and would say the occasional insensitive thing to her, but those statements wouldn't come from a place of disrespect.  But, I would argue, another example is Early Amy.  And Early Amy demanded respect, when she didn't get it she'd defecate Klark Maxwell all over him.

 

At some point, around the episode where she kissed him on the couch, all that changed.  First, she had started to fall for him hard.  Second, it's canon that she gives him all the credit for her social life.  So we have a weaker Amy.  But at the same time, I don't think Sheldon ever did restart his computer at the last save point.  He began to see Amy a compromised somehow.  She now represented something vaguely threatening to his homeostasis, and he rejected her on some level. He put her in the category of people, like Leonard, Penny and his mom, whom he loves and who are essential to his emotional well being, but who on some level, he does not respect.  I love the relationship Sheldon has with those other characters, but I don't want him to marry them, and he certainly should never raise children with them.  Of course I'll people marry disrespectful jerks all the time.  Maybe that's realistic, but it doesn't make for fun TV.    I want him to treat her like he used to treat her.  I don't think that would be inauthentic at all.

I have to disagree with you about giving Sheldon credit for her now active social life. In the episode, I think it was S5-1, Penny is at Amy's apartment, and Penny talks about leaving and going back to Nebraska, and Amy says that her now active social life lives and dies( not the exact wording) with her being in her life.

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