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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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yeah, but is it Amy's fault that she's changed? For Sheldon their relationship was extremely intimate even before kissing, yes, so wait, if Amy wants to kiss someone else she should be now eternally guilty about it?

That said, 1.i am sure she doesn't even wanna kiss that guy
2. I hate to see her kissing somebody else rather than Sheldon

But i don't see how she owes Sheldon to go slow with others just because he has intimacy issues.

Well..in all honesty, Amy never was interested in intimacy at all until she met Sheldon.  He awakened those feelings in her and he was the object of her desire.  

While she may not owe him any reasoning, my problem isn't about what she owes him.  My problem is that her heart was always his and now suddenly she acts as if he really was never that important to her and that her feelings for him were more "on the surface" than deep in her heart.  Her actions in these episodes have not matched who she has been for five years and who Sheldon has been to her in the last five years.   

He was her first love and only love and she saw him making strides, admitting his love for her, allowing her to have a sleepover, etc. and boom, she suddenly can drop him like a hot potato and date another guy within a month (if it is a date, which I am still on the fence about)?  It just isn't adding up to make sense when her heart should be broken as much as Sheldon's.

Sure she should not have to stay at home and not socialize, etc. but we just haven't seen much concern or love or friendship left for him in all of this from her.   By not showing her POV, it hasn't helped things.   I just wish they had shown a much more broken up and truly confused and pained Amy than just an angry one and then a "moving on" one.

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What I find fascinating is how different people have different accounts of the kiss. Who initiated and which part got kissed lol. This is like the Dress again :icon_lol:

Since it was just a quick peck I'm not too worried but had it been something like a hot, steamy French kiss then I'd be all 

 

tumblr_n8vrti3OuB1tg47xro1_400.gif

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What I find fascinating is how different people have different accounts of the kiss. Who initiated and which part got kissed lol. This is like the Dress again :icon_lol:

Since it was just a quick peck I'm not too worried but had it been something like a hot, steamy French kiss then I'd be all 

 

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Agree..I am not too worried about a peck...but I can see how this will devastate Sheldon and that is the part that will be interesting because I am not sure we will ever see his devastation over the kiss completely resolved in a satisfactory fashion.  It was obviously for him to "break", and realize he does have emotions and can't deny it any longer and that Amy means so much to him and all.  But how they have him react to what he witnessed will be interesting.  Either they will gloss over it, or he will go off the deep end and not be able to even look at her much less want to have a conversation with her, or he will realize this is his time to prove to her that he is the man she deserves to have and they will have him react in a mature fashion.  I really don't know where they will go with it and hope we get some insight into that in 9.07.   

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Also, you guys say she's not considering Sheldon's feelings, but are you so sure? 

For all she knows he's moving on (the end of E5). She had no idea he would be outside of her building watching her (not to mention the whole coincidence of him catching exactly that moment is SO soap opera, i can't). I am sure, if it is a date , and she thinks of dating this guy (ew), she would NOT bring him to the group gatherings, to the same room where Sheldon is etc. Unlike Sheldon, who told her he asked other women out... well then again he's socially clueless. But she's not. I don't think she wants to rub his knows in it or hurt him, i think it was just a very cliche coincidence 

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Well..in all honesty, Amy never was interested in intimacy at all until she met Sheldon.  He awakened those feelings in her and he was the object of her desire.  

While she may not owe him any reasoning, my problem isn't about what she owes him.  My problem is that her heart was always his and now suddenly she acts as if he really was never that important to her and that her feelings for him were more "on the surface" than deep in her heart.  Her actions in these episodes have not matched who she has been for five years and who Sheldon has been to her in the last five years.   

He was her first love and only love and she saw him making strides, admitting his love for her, allowing her to have a sleepover, etc. and boom, she suddenly can drop him like a hot potato and date another guy within a month (if it is a date, which I am still on the fence about)?  It just isn't adding up to make sense when her heart should be broken as much as Sheldon's.

Sure she should not have to stay at home and not socialize, etc. but we just haven't seen much concern or love or friendship left for him in all of this from her.   By not showing her POV, it hasn't helped things.   I just wish they had shown a much more broken up and truly confused and pained Amy than just an angry one and then a "moving on" one.

The Alien Parasite Hypothesis episode disagrees with you.  From wiki:

Amy is aroused by Penny's ex-boyfriend Zack Johnson and is unfamiliar with the feeling.

"Zack meets them in the same bar and Amy approaches him saying, “I stand here before you, 130 pounds of raging estrogen, longing to grab your hold of your gluteus maximus and make Shakespeare's metaphorical Beast with Two Backs.” Zack is confused as usual. (My gluteus what?) Based upon his ape like expression, she decide to start using Vulcan disciplinary practice of Kolinahr for her urges, though there is one more “Hoo” before she leaves. Outside the bar, she does try holding Sheldon's hand though doesn’t feel anything, well at least in season 4."

 

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The Alien Parasite Hypothesis episode disagrees with you.  From wiki:

Amy is aroused by Penny's ex-boyfriend Zack Johnson and is unfamiliar with the feeling.

"Zack meets them in the same bar and Amy approaches him saying, “I stand here before you, 130 pounds of raging estrogen, longing to grab your hold of your gluteus maximus and make Shakespeare's metaphorical Beast with Two Backs.” Zack is confused as usual. (My gluteus what?) Based upon his ape like expression, she decide to start using Vulcan disciplinary practice of Kolinahr for her urges, though there is one more “Hoo” before she leaves. Outside the bar, she does try holding Sheldon's hand though doesn’t feel anything, well at least in season 4."

 

Sure but she also said he opened her body to new feelings so...where's truth? :cool:

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Well..in all honesty, Amy never was interested in intimacy at all until she met Sheldon.  He awakened those feelings in her and he was the object of her desire.  

While she may not owe him any reasoning, my problem isn't about what she owes him.  My problem is that her heart was always his and now suddenly she acts as if he really was never that important to her and that her feelings for him were more "on the surface" than deep in her heart.  Her actions in these episodes have not matched who she has been for five years and who Sheldon has been to her in the last five years.   

He was her first love and only love and she saw him making strides, admitting his love for her, allowing her to have a sleepover, etc. and boom, she suddenly can drop him like a hot potato and date another guy within a month (if it is a date, which I am still on the fence about)?  It just isn't adding up to make sense when her heart should be broken as much as Sheldon's.

Sure she should not have to stay at home and not socialize, etc. but we just haven't seen much concern or love or friendship left for him in all of this from her.   By not showing her POV, it hasn't helped things.   I just wish they had shown a much more broken up and truly confused and pained Amy than just an angry one and then a "moving on" one.

she wasn't , but she was since like S5! And  4 years is a lot and a lot can change in that time! I don't believe she wants to be intimate with anyone but him, but i think she thinks it's not an option so she tries to force herself to move on, you know?

I will agree with you about this regarding episode 3! when i watched the sneak peeks i got mad cause i felt both S & A acted very nonchalant about this break up. But in the first two episodes Amy did look very hurt to me. I guess we all see things differently.. But she looked hurt to me, and also her actions (even dating another guy) don't mean to me that Sheldon wasn't ever important to her or that her love was "on the surface".

well i believe if it's a date she's just trying to get rid of her feelings for Sheldon and to move on, you know? It doesn't mean her heart is NOT broken! in fact if it's not broken, why would she break up at all? I think his flash comment struck some nerve and all her iinsecurities came up or w/e. I agree it is not very smart behaviour in my opinion, but i don't know, the writers gave us this, so i'm kind of trying to make sense of it as much as i can!

I agree with this! i wish we could see more of her side too. But i try to think of it is that anger is usually a cover for sadness... But yes i would love for her to actually voice what the break up is about . I was ok without it before, but that nonchalant sneak peek got me so pissed.

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Also, you guys say she's not considering Sheldon's feelings, but are you so sure? 

For all she knows he's moving on (the end of E5). She had no idea he would be outside of her building watching her (not to mention the whole coincidence of him catching exactly that moment is SO soap opera, i can't). I am sure, if it is a date , and she thinks of dating this guy (ew), she would NOT bring him to the group gatherings, to the same room where Sheldon is etc. Unlike Sheldon, who told her he asked other women out... well then again he's socially clueless. But she's not. I don't think she wants to rub his knows in it or hurt him, i think it was just a very cliche coincidence 

I don't think she has considered Sheldon's feelings much at all in the first five episodes to be honest.  And while she may have thought he was moving on that doesn't mean her heart would be healed enough to just "move on".   I don't think just because he made a statement about two women turning him down in a hallway and her jumping to conclusion that he has moved on means that she could just go off and date someone and have her be totally "there" for the encounter.  She clearly has residual feelings she should be needing to get over first.   But that is the deal....she hasn't really shown any residual feelings for him through any of this other than based on what Episode 5 said...her feeling bad about knowing he asked out other women.   But before that nothing other than maybe one or two scenes that she questioned herself, but now she hears something from him that makes her feel he has moved and an immediate episode after she is out on a date?   I don't know...still seems like her feelings for Sheldon were diminished long before any of this if that is the case.  I don't like to even go there or consider that.   Because that is not at all what we witnessed in S8.

The Alien Parasite Hypothesis episode disagrees with you.  From wiki:

Amy is aroused by Penny's ex-boyfriend Zack Johnson and is unfamiliar with the feeling.

"Zack meets them in the same bar and Amy approaches him saying, “I stand here before you, 130 pounds of raging estrogen, longing to grab your hold of your gluteus maximus and make Shakespeare's metaphorical Beast with Two Backs.” Zack is confused as usual. (My gluteus what?) Based upon his ape like expression, she decide to start using Vulcan disciplinary practice of Kolinahr for her urges, though there is one more “Hoo” before she leaves. Outside the bar, she does try holding Sheldon's hand though doesn’t feel anything, well at least in season 4."

 

But being aroused because she sees a good looking guy is a lot different than wanting intimacy..intimacy vs. sex is quite different.   She wanted intimacy with Sheldon...wanted his whole heart (which she has, but she just doesn't see it yet) and him to have her whole heart.   She never wanted intimacy with Zach.  Sure she might have entertained a dalliance with him but she immediately changed her mind on that...so quite a difference.

Edited by stardustmelody
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I agree, this is actually a story about Sheldon...we are witnessing his growth and change into a sort of "different" person. I don't think they will change him so much that people will not recognize him anymore, he  will be still arrogant and pompous, but at some level (and I think relationship-wise) he will be different.

 

1 hour ago, April said:

Also, I don't think anyone's saying that everything will be sunshine and rainbows instantly. If they really want to change Sheldon and stick with it (as 9x06 indicates) they'll have to figure out the new character dynamics and see how he and Amy get along now. There are many ways to do that - the angsty one you guys are suggesting isn't the only one. 

I share the opinion of both April and mirs1, with respect to the way a permanent Sheldon "change" could occur and still stay true to his character. IMO, 9.06 will serve as the catalyst for a ShAmy conversation and eventual reconciliation.  I would hope that following a ShAmy heart-to-heart, Sheldon will continue on the path of learning to express his admiration and love for Amy. Nothing sappy just finally letting go of the Vulcan suppressing feelings act and be true to himself and his desires towards Amy. 

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I don't think she has considered Sheldon's feelings much at all in the first five episodes to be honest.  And while she may have thought he was moving on that doesn't mean her heart would be healed enough to just "move on".   I don't think just because he made a statement about two women turning him down in a hallway and her jumping to conclusion that he has moved on means that she could just go off and date someone and have her be totally "there" for the encounter.  She clearly has residual feelings she should be needing to get over first.   But that is the deal....she hasn't really shown any residual feelings for him through any of this other than based on what Episode 5 said...her feeling bad about knowing he asked out other women.   But before that nothing and then an immediate episode after she is out on a date?   I don't know...still seems like her feelings for Sheldon were diminished long before any of this if that is the case.  I don't like to even go there or consider that.   Because that is not at all what we witnessed in S8.

oh honestly i don't know.. When you put it like that i think it's pretty complicated. I guess i'm trying to explain Amy's behavior to me through intuition/reading facial expressions/etc, because if i try to only work with what's said in the episodes in actual words, i will just go mad!

They have 7 main characters now , and Emily, and it's so crowded, that it's not like they have time for everyone's storyline, and i don't believe we're gonna get many POVs except for Lenny's and Sheldon's (regarding everything). I mean it's a comedy after all not a drama, and their focus is not on fully expressing the depth of their characters feelings... I'm not justifying them, just think that's how it works in the writer's mind.



And regarding Amy and their encounter on the stairs, i agree with you that it is bettre to first heal and process your own feelings, but my point is that i don't think that's everybody's approach! I know i would do that if i were in Amy's situation. But i also see how many people prefer to 'move on' instead of taking the time to heal . But idk, we don't even know if it's a date she wanted to go to yet. Maybe that's a date her mom set up for her or something like that (i'm hoping).

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In Amy's defence you need to see the whole thing from her perspective. She doesn't know what we as the audience know! I think the writers have been very careful in selecting what she gets to see about how Sheldon is dealing with the breakup. And what she sees isn't pretty. Yes, she knows he's upset but she's also the target of his anger at the same time. He's immature and insulting her - and it hurts her. We may not see her crying herself to sleep or whatever but she is telling us that she's in pain and I find it a bit disheartening that people won't believe her for some reason. She's trying to concentrate on herself but her friends are encouraging to move on and maybe date someone else. The only remotely positive thing she gets from Sheldon is that he asks her to move in - after he asked a dozen other random guys! So it's not like that gives her the feeling that she's a priority for him. And then to top it all off he tells her he's asking other women out. I mean jeez, what is she supposed to think of all of that?

She doesn't know that he's crumbling away on the inside. She doesn't know how much he's struggling to keep himself together. In fact he succeeded to such an extent that apparently even his closest friends didn't see it coming when all of this implodes in 9x06. The moment she sees that tape it'll be the first time she sees a side of him that he has so carefully hidden for all those years. So no, I don't think it would be a cheap story telling device if that's what puts things into perspective for her.

First of all, I need to clarify and emphasize that the following post is mostly based on the worst case scenario for this "date" (i.e. Amy genuinely likes this guy and is going on this date because she is interested in pursing a relationship with him - not Amy forcing herself or being forced to date as a coping mechanism). So bear that in mind, that this is how I feel IF the worst case scenario is indeed true. 

I do agree that the dominos fall neatly on top of each other in this plot. The problem is... why do the writers feel the need to let this escalate so quickly to the point where Amy is apparently, very rapidly, sharing the same level of intimacy she took 5 years to reach with Sheldon with another man? I get it that she is reacting to what she sees, and I get her being hurt, and I don't think Sheldon has so far given her any reason to go back to him or feel sorry for him. I said from the moment we got the premiere report that the way they are writing Sheldon seems to be designed specifically to drive her even further away into being sure that she made the right choice and that that worried me. Because I wanted to see Amy miss him too and he wasn't giving her any reasons to.

But what she sees is what the writers want her to see and what she does as a consequence is what the writers want her to do as a consequence. So, again, my question is, why the need to have things escalate to the degree that they have? Why have Sheldon be such a complete idiot to her since the break 24/7 to reinforce her decision, rather than keeping it more balanced? Why have all these misunderstanding pile up one on top of the other to deliberately (apparently) drive her into the arms of another man? Was it necessary to have her kiss another man to get their story across, when the entire premise of Shamy all along was that it was an extremely intimate relationship even with barely kissing? I struggle to understand why it escalated so far, so DAMN quickly. That is my problem. It's too much too soon for me. I don't understand the need for this. If all they wanted was to tell a story of Shamy struggling with a big fight and misunderstanding but tell us they are actually meant to be with each other, they could have done that perfectly fine with much less than this. I don't understand why they are writing this in a way that is deliberately engineered to push them apart further and further and are taking it this far. It's the couple that moved at a snail pace when it came to moving forward but that is apparently ploughing through like an avalanche now that it comes to moving backwards. 5 years gone in 5 episodes.

And shamyyy the problem with Amy wanting to kiss someone else is nothing to do with guilt or blame or Sheldon's feelings, in my case. It's to do with characterization and, again, how it changes my perception of Amy as a character and their relationship. I always felt that there was a degree of comfort between Sheldon and Amy because they were the only people either of them had ever really wanted to be intimate with in their 30-odd years of life. Amy had that crush on Zack for one episode that quickly dissipated as soon as he opened his mouth and that was it. She always was totally focused on Sheldon (turned down several people during the show and was often offended at the implication she could do better) and it seems that just as she was the only one that awoke Sheldon's interest in romantic love, he was he only one doing the same for her. This was very unique not only for the show but on television in general. Amy was originally written as a female Sheldon who wanted no part in romance or sex and while it's one thing to say Amy changed after joining the gang and that her views changed faster than Sheldon and Sheldon has to catch up with her (nothing wrong with that), it's another to say that Amy's views have changed to the point that she just wants to be in a relationship/physical with any man, just to enjoy that aspect regardless of who it is with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that in a real life context, but, IMO, it changes who Amy is as a character to me, it changes the dynamic and balance of the relationship into something that is not nearly as interesting and poignant as before. Amy is irreplaceable for Sheldon, and I always thought it was mutual. Having her want to be with another man, kind of destroys that for me. Because then I'm wondering why she even stuck around with Sheldon for so long? If she could have had all those things so easily with anyone else, why did she choose Sheldon? What is it that she loves so much about Sheldon? When was the last time we saw her praise Sheldon as a boyfriend? Has she just been sticking around all this time just hoping and waiting that one day he would come around and give her what she wanted, without enjoying the present? That's what I mean: having Amy genuinely want to pursue other men opens a whole can of worms and uncomfortable questions that undermine a lot of what I believed their relationship to be built on.

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But being aroused because she sees a good looking guy is a lot different than wanting intimacy..intimacy vs. sex is quite different.   She wanted intimacy with Sheldon...wanted his whole heart (which she has, but she just doesn't see it yet) and him to have her whole heart.   She never wanted intimacy with Zach.  Sure she might have entertained a dalliance with him but she immediately changed her mind on that...so quite a difference.

For the past few seasons she obviously wants intimacy with Sheldon but I'd say she was interested in intimacy with Penny before Sheldon. What season was the lesbian innuendo version of Amy? S5? Remember the creepy painting of them that was originally in the nude? "There's not a hair on my body I wouldn't let this woman trim.".  That sounds pretty intimate. You can't  simply airbrush away the past to fit a fantasy.

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LOL you know what's funny?

We sit here and freak out and discuss to minutiae every part of this episode (that we haven't seen yet) and are anxiously waiting to see what happens next and what it will mean and if they will get back together etc etc.

And then we ask if this was a good idea by the writers? If it was necessary?

Well the fact that we are sitting here agonizing over it, wondering when they will get back together...that's EXACTLY what the writers WANT us to do!!!! LOL

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For the past few seasons she obviously wants intimacy with Sheldon but I'd say she was interested in intimacy with Penny before Sheldon. What season was the lesbian innuendo version of Amy? S5? Remember the creepy painting of them that was originally in the nude? "There's not a hair on my body I wouldn't let this woman trim.".  That sounds pretty intimate. You can't  simply airbrush away the past to fit a fantasy.

No, that is simply not true. She had no interest in a lesbian relationship.  She was creepy and ill equipped to deal with friendships and female companionship, but she has never been written to be a lesbian.  Even the writers said she was a young girl new to sleepover and gal pals and having the "popular, pretty girl" pay attention to her.  So she didn't know how to act and was basing things on reading websites.  That is quite different than actually desiring to be with that person.  She wanted Penny's friendship, not a romance with her.  

I will admit the writers wrote it in a bizarre fashion to where one could read that to be she was lesbian or bisexual, but the writers have dispelled that in several panels since.  They made it clear that Amy is not bisexual or a lesbian.   

First of all, I need to clarify and emphasize that the following post is mostly based on the worst case scenario for this "date" (i.e. Amy genuinely likes this guy and is going on this date because she is interested in pursing a relationship with him - not Amy forcing herself or being forced to date as a coping mechanism). So bear that in mind, that this is how I feel IF the worst case scenario is indeed true. 

I do agree that the dominos fall neatly on top of each other in this plot. The problem is... why do the writers feel the need to let this escalate so quickly to the point where Amy is apparently, very rapidly, sharing the same level of intimacy she took 5 years to reach with Sheldon with another man? I get it that she is reacting to what she sees, and I get her being hurt, and I don't think Sheldon has so far given her any reason to go back to him or feel sorry for him. I said from the moment we got the premiere report that the way they are writing Sheldon seems to be designed specifically to drive her even further away into being sure that she made the right choice and that that worried me. Because I wanted to see Amy miss him too and he wasn't giving her any reasons to.

But what she sees is what the writers want her to see and what she does as a consequence is what the writers want her to do as a consequence. So, again, my question is, why the need to have things escalate to the degree that they have? Why have Sheldon be such a complete idiot to her since the break 24/7 to reinforce her decision, rather than keeping it more balanced? Why have all these misunderstanding pile up one on top of the other to deliberately (apparently) drive her into the arms of another man? Was it necessary to have her kiss another man to get their story across, when the entire premise of Shamy all along was that it was an extremely intimate relationship even with barely kissing? I struggle to understand why it escalated so far, so DAMN quickly. That is my problem. It's too much too soon for me. I don't understand the need for this. If all they wanted was to tell a story of Shamy struggling with a big fight and misunderstanding but tell us they are actually meant to be with each other, they could have done that perfectly fine with much less than this. I don't understand why they are writing this in a way that is deliberately engineered to push them apart further and further and are taking it this far. It's the couple that moved at a snail pace when it came to moving forward but that is apparently ploughing through like an avalanche now that it comes to moving backwards. 5 years gone in 5 episodes.

And shamyyy the problem with Amy wanting to kiss someone else is nothing to do with guilt or blame or Sheldon's feelings, in my case. It's to do with characterization and, again, how it changes my perception of Amy as a character and their relationship. I always felt that there was a degree of comfort between Sheldon and Amy because they were the only people either of them had ever really wanted to be intimate with in their 30-odd years of life. Amy had that crush on Zack for one episode that quickly dissipated as soon as he opened his mouth and that was it. She always was totally focused on Sheldon (turned down several people during the show and was often offended at the implication she could do better) and it seems that just as she was the only one that awoke Sheldon's interest in romantic love, he was he only one doing the same for her. This was very unique not only for the show but on television in general. Amy was originally written as a female Sheldon who wanted no part in romance or sex and while it's one thing to say Amy changed after joining the gang and that her views changed faster than Sheldon and Sheldon has to catch up with her (nothing wrong with that), it's another to say that Amy's views have changed to the point that she just wants to be in a relationship/physical with any man, just to enjoy that aspect regardless of who it is with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that in a real life context, but, IMO, it changes who Amy is as a character to me, it changes the dynamic and balance of the relationship into something that is not nearly as interesting and poignant as before. Amy is irreplaceable for Sheldon, and I always thought it was mutual. Having her want to be with another man, kind of destroys that for me. Because then I'm wondering why she even stuck around with Sheldon for so long? If she could have had all those things so easily with anyone else, why did she choose Sheldon? What is it that she loves so much about Sheldon? When was the last time we saw her praise Sheldon as a boyfriend? Has she just been sticking around all this time just hoping and waiting that one day he would come around and give her what she wanted, without enjoying the present? That's what I mean: having Amy genuinely want to pursue other men opens a whole can of worms and uncomfortable questions that undermine a lot of what I believed their relationship to be built on.

Expressed perfectly, Koops.  This is my concern with, not even the fact that she dated someone else and the kiss, but just their characterization through this breakup overall.   Just the fact that they have written it to be to this extreme and escalate to this point is what I don't understand.   Was  seeing her in that compromising fashion (we still don't really know what that really is and who that man is relative to her...a date, a friend giving a quick friendly peck or a family member), supposed to be Sheldon's epiphany moment?  Will we really see it is?   I really don't know.   I think we are just going to have to wait for more taping reports to get a better understanding of why this was necessary from their perspective.  I think they could have handled this entire season differently and still accomplished the same things, and would have loved to see you write some of those scenarios, but alas, we are going to have to live with what they give us whether we like it or not.   I just hope they have not ruined Shamy in the process because it is looking more and more like they are not the same innocent, quirky, one and only couple that they once were and that is a crying shame.  I pray they can remedy that very shortly in the next couple of episodes because the more they dig themselves into this break-up the harder it is for me to recognize this couple.

Edited by stardustmelody
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Where do I even begin with this? I guess I should preface my answer with: I don't care about your worst case scenario. Sorry to be so blunt. I'm only working with what the episodes and TRs give me and regarding the date we have nothing but a scene witnessed from afar and people seemingly can't even agree on what's happening there. The only concrete clue to her dating intentions come from the episode directly before this. At the risk of eating my words next week, I'd say that the idea of her falling head over heels for another guy right after she's so upset to hear about Sheldon asking out other women is a tiny bit far-fetched.

As you admit yourself, the dominos fall neatly on top of each other - why are we not assuming that they'll continue to fall like that? How many more episodes do you need to at least accept the idea that they're going somewhere with this? I know you're sceptical and you have trust issues when it comes to these writers and this is very subjective so I don't see any chance to talk you out of this mindset. But honestly, I'm not even sure what point there is in me writing all this when you're assuming the worst anyway.

So in short to your question about "Was this necessary?": I don't know, but judging with what we got so far I'm going with "yes". I mean, I probably sound like a broken record by now, but I do think they're trying to build something here and I'm more and more sure of it with each new episode. I do think they want to make a big impact on Shamy as a couple and Sheldon/Amy as individual characters (admittedly Sheldon here more than Amy because obviously) - not to destroy them or rid them of their essence but rather to bring them to a point that allows them to be true to themselves and be honest about their needs and desires in their relationship. (I can only speculate about the writers' motives but if I had to make an educated guess I'd say they probably felt they couldn't get Shamy to that point in their usual pace.)

I also think it's necessary for them to keep all of this on a tight schedule. We don't get huge time jumps and the show has dealt with this story every episode so far. Having all of this happening in quick succession makes it more believable to me that both Amy and Sheldon are still so caught up in their emotions that they have a hard time dealing with all of this and make rash decisions that they wouldn't make under other circumstances. I'd be a lot more worried about Amy being on a date 5 months after a break rather than just 5 weeks. If it was 5 months I'd say, yeah, she's probably over him. With just 5 weeks (or whatever our time frame here is) I can believe this was a spur of the moment decision brought on by recent events.

I can't like this post enough and 1000% agree!!!!

 

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I can't believe the kind of stuff I've been reading here as lately.

Thank you very much April and Shamyyyy for trying to put things from Amy's perspective, I agree very much with your posts :)

Are we still going to put all woman's worth in her virginity? Seriously people?

By reading many posts here, I get an idea of how severe and clear is some shippers' idea of what would change their appreciation of Amy forever, now, just out of curiosity, what attitudes or doings would 'severely damage' Sheldon's image for you?

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I think the reason so many posters are upset about Shamy is that they've created heir own personal fantasy versions of the Shamy romance that aren't based on the reality of what has actually happened on the show.  They want a perfect fairy tale type of romance and the writers aren't giving it to them.  The fact that TPTB have as much as told everyone that Shamy will be together when the series ends apparently isn't enough.

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 Was it necessary to change Sheldon? Of course not in my opinion. I can't think of a reason why he should have changed. He's not perfect, but he's just him.

If the break up is because she has changed and he hasn't, they probably are better that way. Not accepting someone just as he is is not love.

 

As for the " forgiving " thing, I agree: even thou Amy doesn't have anything to be forgiven, this scene is going to be a major obstacle for their reconciliation.

I still don't see Sheldon making the first move for the reconciliation. His heart is so crushed that it has turned into dust... And the point for the video and Sheldon's message to Amy is that unfortunately this is what is going to trigger the start for the resolution ( I hate that idea, but it's the most plausible one ).

Amy is going to Sheldon to have a conversation and since he's really hurt he's going to give her a really hard time starting the conversation, thus dragging the break up even more...

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Where do I even begin with this? I guess I should preface my answer with: I don't care about your worst case scenario. Sorry to be so blunt. I'm only working with what the episodes and TRs give me and regarding the date we have nothing but a scene witnessed from afar and people seemingly can't even agree on what's happening there. The only concrete clue to her dating intentions come from the episode directly before this. At the risk of eating my words next week, I'd say that the idea of her falling head over heels for another guy right after she's so upset to hear about Sheldon asking out other women is a tiny bit far-fetched.

As you admit yourself, the dominos fall neatly on top of each other - why are we not assuming that they'll continue to fall like that? How many more episodes do you need to at least accept the idea that they're going somewhere with this? I know you're sceptical and you have trust issues when it comes to these writers and this is very subjective so I don't see any chance to talk you out of this mindset. But honestly, I'm not even sure what point there is in me writing all this when you're assuming the worst anyway.

So in short to your question about "Was this necessary?": I don't know, but judging with what we got so far I'm going with "yes". I mean, I probably sound like a broken record by now, but I do think they're trying to build something here and I'm more and more sure of it with each new episode. I do think they want to make a big impact on Shamy as a couple and Sheldon/Amy as individual characters (admittedly Sheldon here more than Amy because obviously) - not to destroy them or rid them of their essence but rather to bring them to a point that allows them to be true to themselves and be honest about their needs and desires in their relationship. (I can only speculate about the writers' motives but if I had to make an educated guess I'd say they probably felt they couldn't get Shamy to that point in their usual pace.)

I also think it's necessary for them to keep all of this on a tight schedule. We don't get huge time jumps and the show has dealt with this story every episode so far. Having all of this happening in quick succession makes it more believable to me that both Amy and Sheldon are still so caught up in their emotions that they have a hard time dealing with all of this and make rash decisions that they wouldn't make under other circumstances. I'd be a lot more worried about Amy being on a date 5 months after a break rather than just 5 weeks. If it was 5 months I'd say, yeah, she's probably over him. With just 5 weeks (or whatever our time frame here is) I can believe this was a spur of the moment decision brought on by recent events.

Sadly though..they are, based on my opinion and many other who have posted here (especially those of us who have lived through this couple from the beginning), have changed this couple to where they are not that recognizable.  Amy is not the Amy we have known for five seasons and Sheldon may be himself, but the question is,  will the break in him change him in a way that he won't be recognizable?   It doesn't matter if they want them to be stronger, if they tore them so apart and made them carry out other relationships, etc. in the process.  By the time they get back together who cares?  They are no longer Shamy....but a whole new ordinary couple.   That is what is the issue here.   They have rid them of their essence so far already in my opinion.  Maybe not to the point of no return yet, but they are inching closer and closer to a "no return" if they don't get the back on the same page and together again soon because they are getting further and further away from the essence of their characters and their interaction as a couple.   They could easily have been true and honest to themselves if  Amy had just told Sheldon the next day when he showed up that they needed to talk and would do so after the wedding.  Then they could have had a true heart to heart and all would have likely been solved.  So no they are not the same essence of who they have been in the last five years...  Tearing Sheldon down to crushing his spirit and having Amy show no signs of the friendship and love she had for Sheldon through all of this did change the essence of who they are, because they always discussed their issues and dealt with them together.  This story still does not feel to me as necessary. As I said this is my opinion but it sounds like many others are having a similar concern.

Edited by stardustmelody
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I think the reason so many posters are upset about Shamy is that they've created heir own personal fantasy versions of the Shamy romance that aren't based on the reality of what has actually happened on the show.  They want a perfect fairy tale type of romance and the writers aren't giving it to them.  The fact that TPTB have as much as told everyone that Shamy will be together when the series ends apparently isn't enough.

Okay, no. Just no. I can't speak for every Shamy fan but I personally do not want a 'perfect fairytale romance' for Shamy. I could never ship them should they have had something out of a 1950s Disney movie like Snow White. Shamy was never fairytale-like at all. They were this cutely weird couple who made people happy by doing weird things together and finding love very slowly with each other.

The fact that they are confirmed as endgane is not enough if folks aren't enjoying the journey. That would almost be like two characters who hated each other all the time during most of the show just suddenly hooking up in the finale. I doubt people will care much for them as a couple. Right now, people are scared that they'll stop loving Shamy should things get too out of control. There are certain things that would be deal breakers.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with the recent developments and also enjoyed the 2 episodes that have already aired. I'm still hopeful and optimistic about things right now.

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And shamyyy the problem with Amy wanting to kiss someone else is nothing to do with guilt or blame or Sheldon's feelings, in my case. It's to do with characterization and, again, how it changes my perception of Amy as a character and their relationship. I always felt that there was a degree of comfort between Sheldon and Amy because they were the only people either of them had ever really wanted to be intimate with in their 30-odd years of life. Amy had that crush on Zack for one episode that quickly dissipated as soon as he opened his mouth and that was it. She always was totally focused on Sheldon (turned down several people during the show and was often offended at the implication she could do better) and it seems that just as she was the only one that awoke Sheldon's interest in romantic love, he was he only one doing the same for her. This was very unique not only for the show but on television in general. Amy was originally written as a female Sheldon who wanted no part in romance or sex and while it's one thing to say Amy changed after joining the gang and that her views changed faster than Sheldon and Sheldon has to catch up with her (nothing wrong with that), it's another to say that Amy's views have changed to the point that she just wants to be in a relationship/physical with any man, just to enjoy that aspect regardless of who it is with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that in a real life context, but, IMO, it changes who Amy is as a character to me, it changes the dynamic and balance of the relationship into something that is not nearly as interesting and poignant as before. Amy is irreplaceable for Sheldon, and I always thought it was mutual. Having her want to be with another man, kind of destroys that for me. Because then I'm wondering why she even stuck around with Sheldon for so long? If she could have had all those things so easily with anyone else, why did she choose Sheldon? What is it that she loves so much about Sheldon? When was the last time we saw her praise Sheldon as a boyfriend? Has she just been sticking around all this time just hoping and waiting that one day he would come around and give her what she wanted, without enjoying the present? That's what I mean: having Amy genuinely want to pursue other men opens a whole can of worms and uncomfortable questions that undermine a lot of what I believed their relationship to be built on.

I guess regarding Amy's character being changed to the point where it's not just interesting anymore, i guess we can just agree to disagree, i can see how if you loved Amy from the start maybe now she's too much changed to you and you don't find her that interesting anymore.. I personally liked her more in later seasons, so for me the change was good not bad.. But i can see how it's different for us depending on what we like about her and i just think there's no right and wrong here.

But regarding amy wanting to be with someone else... The way i see it is that it's not that she wants to be with someone else, but wants to want to be with someone else, if that makes sense? And i can see how for you that already may be too much, but for me it's ok for her to want that... 

I was thinking of an analogy lately, and to me it's like imagine if you have your dream job , the one you love. You love it so much that you pour your heart and soul into it, and you never wanna do anything else for the rest of your life. But it pays really bad, you're poor, you're basically starving. And you're working and working, and you realize , that it's getting  you nowhere money-wise. And who knows, maybe, in 5 more years, or 10 more years, it will. But you have a feeling that that might be it, that it's probably always gonna be the same. What do you do?
I can see how some people will not care about money and just continue doing what they love for the rest of their life. You know, like Van Gogh, like many artists or other creative people.
But then some other people might realize they want comfort in their life too, and will make a heart-breaking decision to give up on the work of their life and do something else, which will bring them money. Some may stay with it, some may realize it's a nightmare and it's better to be poor doing what you love than be rich having a job you dread. Some may even find some middle-ground that pays well and the job is not a dream job but nice.
My point is i think there's no "right" decision in this and i respect all these different approaches.. 

I see Amy's situation with Sheldon somewhat like that... I believe she wants intimacy with Sheldon, i believe she doesn't think she'll ever get it , so she "wants to want" it with others but i don't see her actually finding it satisfying. But it doesn't ruin her character for me that she wants to try to be with others, i see it as simply an expression of the self-preservation instinct... You want the best for your life, and you try to find what that best is.

 But i guess i can see how it changes your perception of her even if i can't share that view... But in any case, to me her actions don't mean that Sheldon's not the love of her life or that she wasn't happy;

i think happiness is multi-dimensional - you can feel perfectly happy but still there are some unresolved issues that don't come up for a long time , they don't interfere with your happiness.. But than, at some point, they may come up and you're suddenly at some crossroads, and i believe it can happen fast. IMO ofc :)


 

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