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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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The night shoot photos give me the idea that tonight taping will begin immediately after Amy's date and people are looking for Sheldon AND Amy.  What's my prize if I am right?  Less the 24 hours for fresh spoilers, THANK GOD!!

I would be hopeful if the tag scene didn't end with him back at the apartment calling Spock a liar about not having feelings.    That is unless I read the tag wrong.

Nonetheless, I like the way you think.

Edited by jenafan
I posted this before I read that others had already addressed this. Sorry for the repeat, but it happens when you come to the table late.
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Sorry guys...but the cabin will not appear on the show. It is one of sets of Gilmore Girls, TBBT was just shooting near that cabin, maybe they needed a place outdoors and that set of Gilmore Girls happens to be near the one they chose. Melissa took the picture since has been announced that there will be a sequel for Gilmore Girls and I think she was a fan of that show.

Good!  I don't want GG taint anywhere near this show.  That final season was excruciating.

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Sorry guys...but the cabin will not appear on the show. It is one of sets of Gilmore Girls, TBBT was just shooting near that cabin, maybe they needed a place outdoors and that set of Gilmore Girls happened to be near the one they chose. Melissa took the picture since it has been announced that there will be a sequel for Gilmore Girls and I think she was a fan of that show.

Sorry, I ran out of likes for today!

That´s sad to hear Mirs, but I still hope that there´s a Shamy speak out conversation or even a reconciliation.

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once again, my apologies for the random nested quote. Starfire, I have a lot of sympathy with your post. I too am a reasonably antisocial person with well meaning and outgoing friends.

now here is where I part company with you: Because Amy is a fictional character, all that we can say about her is what we are shown on screen, and/or can deduce from what we are shown/told. Were Amy a real person, I would completely agree that she could be going through all.sorts of stuff where I couldn't see it. Because she would continue to exist long after she vanished from view.

Amy, the fictional.character, does not have the same robustness. To a large extent, we must go by what we have been shown on screen, either by Amy's own words, expressions or actions, or by what is said to.and of her by other people. When I say 'it is a bit weird that we are getting so little from amy', I am NOT saying 'no human being in amy's position would behave like that'. I am saying 'from what we have been shown about Amy on screen so far, it is strange to me that there has been so little.affect from this particular fictional character.' Could Amy have just shut down her systems, and be in autopilot right now? Absolutely. Have I seen anything from the reactions of penny, Bernie or anyone around her to indicate that they think she is processing in any sort of unusual way? Nope. Do I trust the writers enough to think that they have crafted reactions from Amy serving a consistent fictional.character? Nope. Do I believe the writers will.just have Amy be a zombie until it suits them to have her be Bridget jones, and then have her be that until it suits them to have her be patient griselda putting up with Sheldon? Yup.

and all.of this is directed at the writers. I am.categorically NOT saying that the reactions we are seeing from.amy are not 'normal'-whatever that means. I am saying that, as a piece of writing, the lack of attention paid to Amy is disappointing to me.

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So then, late to the party as ever but last night was a prime example of ~everything happens so much~ with new X-Files teasers, Star Wars trailer and the announcement that Gilmore Girls is coming back as well?!? Dear Lord...! Anyway, 9x05 was pretty much what I expected and many points have already been discussed here ad nauseam so I'll try not to be too repetitive:

- As said in the episode thread I loved the two plots with the fencing and comic book store.

- Mayim and Jim are doing such a great job with this storyline. If nothing else it's marvellous to watch them flexing their acting muscles so even if this somehow crashes and burns in the end (not that I think it will) I will still applaud the writers for giving their frequent award winning/nominated actors something to do here!

- ...and of course the Shamy related scenes hit me so hard. #everythinghurtsandimdying

- I still like how the writers handle the balance between the two. I don't think it's a question of blaming one party or the other. To me it's pretty clear that both are bottling up their feelings and try get through this to their best ability - well, as good as one can without experience in these things and while having friends who are encouraging them to move on by going on dates. With the relative short time frame of the show it feels like they're put on the fast track so I won't blame either one for not getting it right in whatever situation.

- What I also like is that so far there are some really nice lines sprinkled thorough several episodes which somehow feel like they'll contribute something towards their reconciliation. The one from this episode was when Amy was talking about her insecurities and how hard it was for her to open up about them.

 

So yeah.... I hope we'll see something good coming from the taping tonight. Fingers crossed!

 

(As an aside: I managed to get my hands on the Jamie Lawson album - you know the guy with the Shamy song? Yeah, turns out the whole album has a lot of great songs that fuel my Shamy feels and it's currently my go-to background music when I indulge in sappy fanfics. lol)

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I better fuckin be Sheldon or I'm out

That´s so true, I don´t want to have Amy sex with another guy neither! Sheldon should be the one and only she is ever going to have sex with!

Edited by Desdemona
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You'd be surprised. People react differently to break-ups and other similarly difficult situations, especially introverted people. I know I'm repeating myself a lot, but it's true. As a female INTJ, I get crap all the time about how my reactions to situations are "not normal," or are "proof that I don't care," when it could not be further from the truth. You won't see me crying or being depressed or telling every soul out there how I feel, even if I'm deeply hurt or feel betrayed. You probably won't see me smile, even if I'm happy, and that, apparently, is perceived as wrong, a problem, and a sign of lack of emotions or psychological issues.

The world is ran by extroverts, so people assume that the appropriate reactions to certain situations all have to match up to what extroverts do. And, since more ignorant individuals are constantly trying to "fix" introverts (go out more, talk more, dance more, drink more, get our heads off books more, etc...), the behaviors that are natural for an introvert are demonized and/or ostracized. Why? Because, in the eye of society as a whole, we are not behaving "right." I mean, if you look/act like you don't care about something so special, there must be something wrong with you, right?

WRONG.

Am I saying you're wrong? Nope. Calling you ignorant? Nope. Any other insults? Nu-uh. Just pointing out that the very nature of these characters is what makes this breakup a little different. My first boyfriend broke up with me on Valentine's day, as he was walking me home and I had given him his gift, and then told me he had been cheating on me for two weeks with one of my friends. The socially acceptable response/reaction to this horrible turn of events would've been to cry, scream, possibly slap the guy, tell the world the creep he was, plot my revenge against the girl and possibly tell everyone I knew about it so that society would judge him and not me. What did I do? I shrugged, said "OK" and walked the rest of the way back home by myself. Did I cry? Yes; for YEARS. Did it screw me up when it came to relationships? Absolutely. Did anyone notice? Nope. Not a soul.

 

I am so sorry for what you went through, but I also appreciate your insight.

I believe sometimes the sides we are taking and the views we are promoting on this Shamy breakup come from our own personal experiences and personalities.   It's difficult to see the other side, (1) when we don't possess it in ourselves to do so because of our own individual inner workings and personal feelings about things, (2) experiences have shown us something other than what another has presented, (3) or the picture to come to a conclusive result is incomplete.    For most of us right now, the third option is the reason we are relying on options one and two to formulate our opinions and/or take sides.

You are right, we tend to project on to others the way we ourselves would react in a given situation and think others are not reacting normally for not seeing the same thing we see.    

While I agree that Amy and Sheldon are both to blame for this break up, it is easier for me to see Sheldon's side than Amy's for several reasons:

  • I know more about Sheldon's side and his feelings because that is the only side the writer's have chosen to make clear (incomplete picture because Amy's feelings are not fully present)
  • They had their problems, but Sheldon and Amy were good for each other and had many fun and enjoyable times together.   From what we saw on screen, this outweighed the bad times.  The timing of the breakup after everything that happened in S8 just seemed illogical, causing more questions to arise in the incomplete picture we already have.  Having Penny tell Sheldon that Amy had been considering it awhile was another shock thrown into the mix.
  • I see Sheldon being selfish in wanting to hold on to her, and hurt her a little bit.   However, he is also trying to let her move on and accept a life without her in it, admittedly recognizing that he has not been the best for her.   This yanks on my compassionate side.
  • I am more like Sheldon in personality than Amy.  So, I can relate to him more.
  • I have been where both of them have been, so I know this can lead in either direction (a permanent break up or make up).   Since I lean toward a makeup, it is easier for me to side with Sheldon who I know wants a reconciliation vs. Amy who seems to be wanting to proceed with the break up.  So, yes, in this area, I will bat for Sheldon every time until Amy comes to her senses and goes back to where she freaking belongs.
  • I struggle with the longevity of their relationship, and how someone can just throw away that much history and be so quick to want to move on, which is the reason I lash out at Amy for showing no remorse, emotion, etc.   It's as if she's erased Sheldon from her life, other than to mention him matter-of-factly in a comment here and there.
So, no I don't hate Amy at all.   I just don't like where she is, because she is the one holding all the cards regarding this break up.   My fear is that the longer she goes and the more hurt Sheldon becomes, she's slowly handing those cards over to Sheldon.  He may not like the hand he has been dealt in all of this and may now resist a reconciliation he once longed for.
 
So, while I hope a reconciliation is around the corner.   I do see an opening for Sheldon to decide he is simply not enough for her, will never meet her expectations, and he decides it's no longer what he wants based on her decision to explore the sea for other options.
Edited by jenafan
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once again, my apologies for the random nested quote. Starfire, I have a lot of sympathy with your post. I too am a reasonably antisocial person with well meaning and outgoing friends.

now here is where I part company with you: Because Amy is a fictional character, all that we can say about her is what we are shown on screen, and/or can deduce from what we are shown/told. Were Amy a real person, I would completely agree that she could be going through all.sorts of stuff where I couldn't see it. Because she would continue to exist long after she vanished from view.

Amy, the fictional.character, does not have the same robustness. To a large extent, we must go by what we have been shown on screen, either by Amy's own words, expressions or actions, or by what is said to.and of her by other people. When I say 'it is a bit weird that we are getting so little from amy', I am NOT saying 'no human being in amy's position would behave like that'. I am saying 'from what we have been shown about Amy on screen so far, it is strange to me that there has been so little.affect from this particular fictional character.' Could Amy have just shut down her systems, and be in autopilot right now? Absolutely. Have I seen anything from the reactions of penny, Bernie or anyone around her to indicate that they think she is processing in any sort of unusual way? Nope. Do I trust the writers enough to think that they have crafted reactions from Amy serving a consistent fictional.character? Nope. Do I believe the writers will.just have Amy be a zombie until it suits them to have her be Bridget jones, and then have her be that until it suits them to have her be patient griselda putting up with Sheldon? Yup.

and all.of this is directed at the writers. I am.categorically NOT saying that the reactions we are seeing from.amy are not 'normal'-whatever that means. I am saying that, as a piece of writing, the lack of attention paid to Amy is disappointing to me.

HEEEYY!! We're NOT antisocial. We are asocial :D And sometimes a little snarky, but that's another topic :p

Bold items: Yup, that's what I said on an earlier post. We don't know everything, we just got by whatever we see. Yet, thinking of the characters in suspended animation while we don't hear/see from them only further justifies their reactions, IMO, because if Amy/Sheldon only talk/think/speak when they are on screen, then only ten to twenty minutes have gone by since they broke up. I understand that's not what you meant, but this assumption is in line with that particular train of thought.

Moreover, this is not the Amy show; it's the TBBT, and I think the writers (as much as they confuse us sometimes), are aware that there are other characters in the show and that not everyone who watches does so for the ShAmy. As such, they have to devote time and stories to other characters, thus reducing the time we see our ShAmy on screen.

Red item: Meh, I don't know. I write fanfics (which do NOT compare at all to writing for a show), but writers, for the most part, do try to justify story lines and align reactions because they're invested in the characters as much as we are. I don't know these writers personally (and I only know of Molaro because most people want to lynch him), but consistency of characterization is a fallacy. If that were not the case, then Sheldon would have 20 cats again and Mrs. Cooper would be here to solve the issue. Or, better yet, neither Amy nor Sheldon would give a damn about breaking up. These venues are no longer applicable, however, because they've evolved and time has passed, and this is possible only because these characters have continued to "live on" even when not on screen, which is why it's difficult for me to agree with the bold items :(

Purple item: I just wanted to LOL at the zombie comment. Zombies are hilarious to me.

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Oh yes, or I'm going to clean my gun...

tumblr_nuws0wLDus1qijoeyo7_r1_540.gif

I'd have preferred Ten with his gun but we're on the same side so it's ok :laugh: 

autocorrect?

oh bugger, yeah :laugh: I meant it.

I just had this wave of 'Amy will sleep with someone else'. I don't like it. MAKE IT STOP

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Oh yes, or I'm going to clean my gun...

tumblr_nuws0wLDus1qijoeyo7_r1_540.gif

I can imagine Sheldon, aiming something at Dave (idk what ever he has in his bag), as Dave walks out of the building where Amy lives and asks him what his intentions are.

So Dave replies that his intentions are good and asks him who he is.

But Sheldon ignores his question and simply says: "Don´t you dare touch her again! Or you´ll feel my wrath!"

Dave smiles and says: "You must be Sheldon."

Sheldon looks surprised, so Dave clears him up: "Amy has told me a lot about you."

It would be kinda cute, if Amy spoke the whole evening about Sheldon, while she was spending the afternoon/evening with Dave.

Edited by Desdemona
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I can imagine Sheldon, aiming something at Dave (idk what ever he has in his bag), as Dave walks out of the building where Amy lives and asks him what his intentions are.

Well he threatened to kill Kripke before he even asked Amy out. God knows what he's gonna do to Dave now Sheldon's seem hi TOUCH his girl #scaredforDave #not

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HEEEYY!! We're NOT antisocial. We are asocial :D And sometimes a little snarky, but that's another topic :p

Bold items: Yup, that's what I said on an earlier post. We don't know everything, we just got by whatever we see. Yet, thinking of the characters in suspended animation while we don't hear/see from them only further justifies their reactions, IMO, because if Amy/Sheldon only talk/think/speak when they are on screen, then only ten to twenty minutes have gone by since they broke up. I understand that's not what you meant, but this assumption is in line with that particular train of thought.

Moreover, this is not the Amy show; it's the TBBT, and I think the writers (as much as they confuse us sometimes), are aware that there are other characters in the show and that not everyone who watches does so for the ShAmy. As such, they have to devote time and stories to other characters, thus reducing the time we see our ShAmy on screen.

Red item: Meh, I don't know. I write fanfics (which do NOT compare at all to writing for a show), but writers, for the most part, do try to justify story lines and align reactions because they're invested in the characters as much as we are. I don't know these writers personally (and I only know of Molaro because most people want to lynch him), but consistency of characterization is a fallacy. If that were not the case, then Sheldon would have 20 cats again and Mrs. Cooper would be here to solve the issue. Or, better yet, neither Amy nor Sheldon would give a damn about breaking up. These venues are no longer applicable, however, because they've evolved and time has passed, and this is possible only because these characters have continued to "live on" even when not on screen, which is why it's difficult for me to agree with the bold items :(

Purple item: I just wanted to LOL at the zombie comment. Zombies are hilarious to me.

Zombies are hilarious! I think so anyway. My personal horror jam is possession, rather than beasties, and zombies for me personally qualify as beasties- and shuffling, slow-moving beasties at that. Also, 'horror jam' is, I think, a great name for a band.

As to the show not being the Amy/ShAmy show: yyyyyyeeeeeahhhh, I have some sympathy with that, but limited. As I've said before, we didn't necessarily spend more time with Amy in Seasons Four and Five, and I got a better sense of her character than I did in Seasons Six and Seven. I know the writers have difficulty balancing stories (witness the cavalier treatment given to poor Raj's first full-on onscreen romance and dilemma!), but you can have quantity without quality.

As to suspended animation: heh, this reminds me of Downton Abbey, a show I used to watch with a sort of fascinated horror. There was a chauffeur character who made a really creepy pass at one of the daughters of the house, who responded in the next episode. Now, the show treated this as some sort of whirlwind romance, but apparently the real-life events the show referred to indicated that at least a year had passed between overture and- in the words of David Mitchell- 'huffy but vaguely aroused response.' Now, if TBBT does a time jump like that, I will laugh and laugh and laugh.

In any event, I get that some activity must be assumed to have happened in between episodes/displayed moments, and in my infinite magnanimity I am willing to do some of that assuming. For example, I am willing to assume that Sheldon dresses himself without assistance from Howard, Penny or Leonard. I haven't heard any of these characters bitching about this degrading chore, and Sheldon is visibly dressed- and his daytime clothes are different from his night-time clothes!- so I am happy to assume that he performs his own toilette.

Regarding Sheldon's feelings about the break/break-up: well, I don't need to assume very much, because the show has gone to some pains to show him lashing out, breaking down, needling Amy etc.

As to Amy's feelings: well, her stated grievance about the relationship is that it is slow. Fair enough. Slow in what respect? Physical intimacy, as from context (osculatus interruptus)? Emotional intimacy? Commitment, especially with a view to ticking biological clocks? And is 'pace' where it ends? What were Amy's grievances about her relationship? Hey, if she needs ideas, I have a list for her! 

My problem is that any of these things could be true. All of them. None of them. Some other issue could be rattling around in that cute little lump of wool. But Amy hasn't indicated what any of these issues actually were. Again, we know what we think they could be, because we've been watching the show and we can enumerate the ways that we, personally, found Sheldon exasperating. But Amy is preserving a statesmanlike silence on what her personal issues (again, not what we think they could be) were with the relationship. We have contextual evidence, from Amy, about one thing: the unsatisfactory pace, to her, of their physical relationship. 'Five years and all I get from you is one distracted makeout session.' But does that mean that Amy wanted more physicality, or to feel that Sheldon truly desired her? Either? Both? And is that why the only reaction we saw from her is when Sheldon said he was seeing other women? Was she upset that what came with such difficulty for her came so easily to some random woman? Was she upset because she thought he'd always be there while she window-shopped, and now that may not be true? Was she upset because, although she's moving on, she doesn't like the thought of him with anyone else? Any of the above? All? None?

And there is one other thing that Amy is silent about: what she actually valued about the relationship. Again, we could tell her (some of us, at least) why she should value her relationship and/or Sheldon. But what, specifically, did she get out of it? Did she like him specifically ('sweet babboo' etc.)? Because her current muted response to Bernie's slagging him off, and her vaguely-fond-but-irritated Skype session suggests the demeanour of someone who had mentally checked out of her relationship long, long ago. Did she like- not Sheldon, but the feeling of having a boyfriend? The circle of friends being with Sheldon brought into her life? Was she only with Sheldon because she thought she couldn't do better? For me, it's pretty important to believe that Amy positively values Sheldon and her relationship with him, because why would I root for her to go back to something she only tolerated because she thought she could do no better? And there is also the small matter that Sheldon has been shown to be distraught about the loss of Amy, and emphatically not because she kissed his ouchies and boo-boos. Sheldon has been shown to not be transactional about his relationship with Amy. I am not blaming Amy for not being arse over tea-kettle for Sheldon or whatever, but without some indication from her about what was wrong and right about her relationship, there's nothing there for me to root for. Amy should move on, now that she knows that she has options. Nobody should be so grateful to be in a relationship that they tolerate unending misery or frustration, and nobody should be so besotted with another human being that they're willing to put up with being a fall-back.

And I used the phrase 'trust' before, because it matters. I've watched shows seething with subtext: Mad Men and The Good Wife come to mind. Neither of these shows is interested in spelling out their characters' motivations, but I trust that the writers have respect and care for the journey of their characters. I'm willing to shoulder my share of the burden, because I trust that the writers have something coherent in mind. These writers? I've been burned too many times. I wouldn't put it remotely past them to get bored with this 'Broken Sheldon, Hidden Amy' narrative and have Amy running back to Sheldon, and crank up 'Oblivious Sheldon, Frustrated Amy' once again. 'What?' They'll shrug. 'We never told you what Amy's beef was, because she had no beef. We just wrote Sheldon to be annoying enough that she could be mad, but she was always going to go back. Once we wrote Sheldon to stop being annoying, she stopped being mad and went back to him. We're geniuses!'

And also, regarding consistent characterisation: yes, this is why I said consistent, not constant. I don't need the characters to never evolve, just for the shape of said evolution to be consistent with what we've seen. Sheldon's behaviour is consistent with a fragile, highly change-averse, somewhat spoiled individual, undergoing fairly significant trauma. Amy's behaviour is consistent with............... well, to me, it is consistent with writers wanting to explore what a heartbroken Sheldon looks like, and giving Amy precisely the reactions necessary to precipitate and/or deepen said heartbreak.

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I think there is a sort of time jump (few weeks, at least) between this and the following episode...Amy has had coffee with three men before 9.6; as long as she is willing to move on or to seek revenge after Sheldon has asked women out, I don't think her character could be comfortable with "dating" three persons in a week...let's say...or that she could even find three men to date in few days. So, for me, something like a month has  passed between 9.5 and 9.6...

Edited by mirs1
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Well he threatened to kill Kripke before he even asked Amy out. God knows what he's gonna do to Dave now Sheldon's seem hi TOUCH his girl #scaredforDave #not

I´m really curious, what Sheldon is going to do. But he has to act soon, if he decides to fight for his love and give Dave a kick in his posterior!

Sheldon strikes back!! :dwarf:

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Just wanted to pop by and say - hugs to you all for tomorrow  mornings TR ( here in Scotland ) tonight's for you guys !! . 

I really really want something positive towards reconciliation , please please please :) . 

See you all in chat for our stressful waiting!!! 

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Zombies are hilarious! I think so anyway. My personal horror jam is possession, rather than beasties, and zombies for me personally qualify as beasties- and shuffling, slow-moving beasties at that. Also, 'horror jam' is, I think, a great name for a band.

As to the show not being the Amy/ShAmy show: yyyyyyeeeeeahhhh, I have some sympathy with that, but limited. As I've said before, we didn't necessarily spend more time with Amy in Seasons Four and Five, and I got a better sense of her character than I did in Seasons Six and Seven. I know the writers have difficulty balancing stories (witness the cavalier treatment given to poor Raj's first full-on onscreen romance and dilemma!), but you can have quantity without quality.

As to suspended animation: heh, this reminds me of Downton Abbey, a show I used to watch with a sort of fascinated horror. There was a chauffeur character who made a really creepy pass at one of the daughters of the house, who responded in the next episode. Now, the show treated this as some sort of whirlwind romance, but apparently the real-life events the show referred to indicated that at least a year had passed between overture and- in the words of David Mitchell- 'huffy but vaguely aroused response.' Now, if TBBT does a time jump like that, I will laugh and laugh and laugh.

In any event, I get that some activity must be assumed to have happened in between episodes/displayed moments, and in my infinite magnanimity I am willing to do some of that assuming. For example, I am willing to assume that Sheldon dresses himself without assistance from Howard, Penny or Leonard. I haven't heard any of these characters bitching about this degrading chore, and Sheldon is visibly dressed- and his daytime clothes are different from his night-time clothes!- so I am happy to assume that he performs his own toilette.

Regarding Sheldon's feelings about the break/break-up: well, I don't need to assume very much, because the show has gone to some pains to show him lashing out, breaking down, needling Amy etc.

As to Amy's feelings: well, her stated grievance about the relationship is that it is slow. Fair enough. Slow in what respect? Physical intimacy, as from context (osculatus interruptus)? Emotional intimacy? Commitment, especially with a view to ticking biological clocks? And is 'pace' where it ends? What were Amy's grievances about her relationship? Hey, if she needs ideas, I have a list for her! 

My problem is that any of these things could be true. All of them. None of them. Some other issue could be rattling around in that cute little lump of wool. But Amy hasn't indicated what any of these issues actually were. Again, we know what we think they could be, because we've been watching the show and we can enumerate the ways that we, personally, found Sheldon exasperating. But Amy is preserving a statesmanlike silence on what her personal issues (again, not what we think they could be) were with the relationship. We have contextual evidence, from Amy, about one thing: the unsatisfactory pace, to her, of their physical relationship. 'Five years and all I get from you is one distracted makeout session.' But does that mean that Amy wanted more physicality, or to feel that Sheldon truly desired her? Either? Both? And is that why the only reaction we saw from her is when Sheldon said he was seeing other women? Was she upset that what came with such difficulty for her came so easily to some random woman? Was she upset because she thought he'd always be there while she window-shopped, and now that may not be true? Was she upset because, although she's moving on, she doesn't like the thought of him with anyone else? Any of the above? All? None?

And there is one other thing that Amy is silent about: what she actually valued about the relationship. Again, we could tell her (some of us, at least) why she should value her relationship and/or Sheldon. But what, specifically, did she get out of it? Did she like him specifically ('sweet babboo' etc.)? Because her current muted response to Bernie's slagging him off, and her vaguely-fond-but-irritated Skype session suggests the demeanour of someone who had mentally checked out of her relationship long, long ago. Did she like- not Sheldon, but the feeling of having a boyfriend? The circle of friends being with Sheldon brought into her life? Was she only with Sheldon because she thought she couldn't do better? For me, it's pretty important to believe that Amy positively values Sheldon and her relationship with him, because why would I root for her to go back to something she only tolerated because she thought she could do no better? And there is also the small matter that Sheldon has been shown to be distraught about the loss of Amy, and emphatically not because she kissed his ouchies and boo-boos. Sheldon has been shown to not be transactional about his relationship with Amy. I am not blaming Amy for not being arse over tea-kettle for Sheldon or whatever, but without some indication from her about what was wrong and right about her relationship, there's nothing there for me to root for. Amy should move on, now that she knows that she has options. Nobody should be so grateful to be in a relationship that they tolerate unending misery or frustration, and nobody should be so besotted with another human being that they're willing to put up with being a fall-back.

And I used the phrase 'trust' before, because it matters. I've watched shows seething with subtext: Mad Men and The Good Wife come to mind. Neither of these shows is interested in spelling out their characters' motivations, but I trust that the writers have respect and care for the journey of their characters. I'm willing to shoulder my share of the burden, because I trust that the writers have something coherent in mind. These writers? I've been burned too many times. I wouldn't put it remotely past them to get bored with this 'Broken Sheldon, Hidden Amy' narrative and have Amy running back to Sheldon, and crank up 'Oblivious Sheldon, Frustrated Amy' once again. 'What?' They'll shrug. 'We never told you what Amy's beef was, because she had no beef. We just wrote Sheldon to be annoying enough that she could be mad, but she was always going to go back. Once we wrote Sheldon to stop being annoying, she stopped being mad and went back to him. We're geniuses!'

And also, regarding consistent characterisation: yes, this is why I said consistent, not constant. I don't need the characters to never evolve, just for the shape of said evolution to be consistent with what we've seen. Sheldon's behaviour is consistent with a fragile, highly change-averse, somewhat spoiled individual, undergoing fairly significant trauma. Amy's behaviour is consistent with............... well, to me, it is consistent with writers wanting to explore what a heartbroken Sheldon looks like, and giving Amy precisely the reactions necessary to precipitate and/or deepen said heartbreak.

Dude (or dudette), I can't stop effing laughing! I don't even... HAHAHAHA! You are my hero!

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Zombies are hilarious! I think so anyway. My personal horror jam is possession, rather than beasties, and zombies for me personally qualify as beasties- and shuffling, slow-moving beasties at that. Also, 'horror jam' is, I think, a great name for a band.

As to the show not being the Amy/ShAmy show: yyyyyyeeeeeahhhh, I have some sympathy with that, but limited. As I've said before, we didn't necessarily spend more time with Amy in Seasons Four and Five, and I got a better sense of her character than I did in Seasons Six and Seven. I know the writers have difficulty balancing stories (witness the cavalier treatment given to poor Raj's first full-on onscreen romance and dilemma!), but you can have quantity without quality.

As to suspended animation: heh, this reminds me of Downton Abbey, a show I used to watch with a sort of fascinated horror. There was a chauffeur character who made a really creepy pass at one of the daughters of the house, who responded in the next episode. Now, the show treated this as some sort of whirlwind romance, but apparently the real-life events the show referred to indicated that at least a year had passed between overture and- in the words of David Mitchell- 'huffy but vaguely aroused response.' Now, if TBBT does a time jump like that, I will laugh and laugh and laugh.

In any event, I get that some activity must be assumed to have happened in between episodes/displayed moments, and in my infinite magnanimity I am willing to do some of that assuming. For example, I am willing to assume that Sheldon dresses himself without assistance from Howard, Penny or Leonard. I haven't heard any of these characters bitching about this degrading chore, and Sheldon is visibly dressed- and his daytime clothes are different from his night-time clothes!- so I am happy to assume that he performs his own toilette.

Regarding Sheldon's feelings about the break/break-up: well, I don't need to assume very much, because the show has gone to some pains to show him lashing out, breaking down, needling Amy etc.

As to Amy's feelings: well, her stated grievance about the relationship is that it is slow. Fair enough. Slow in what respect? Physical intimacy, as from context (osculatus interruptus)? Emotional intimacy? Commitment, especially with a view to ticking biological clocks? And is 'pace' where it ends? What were Amy's grievances about her relationship? Hey, if she needs ideas, I have a list for her! 

My problem is that any of these things could be true. All of them. None of them. Some other issue could be rattling around in that cute little lump of wool. But Amy hasn't indicated what any of these issues actually were. Again, we know what we think they could be, because we've been watching the show and we can enumerate the ways that we, personally, found Sheldon exasperating. But Amy is preserving a statesmanlike silence on what her personal issues (again, not what we think they could be) were with the relationship. We have contextual evidence, from Amy, about one thing: the unsatisfactory pace, to her, of their physical relationship. 'Five years and all I get from you is one distracted makeout session.' But does that mean that Amy wanted more physicality, or to feel that Sheldon truly desired her? Either? Both? And is that why the only reaction we saw from her is when Sheldon said he was seeing other women? Was she upset that what came with such difficulty for her came so easily to some random woman? Was she upset because she thought he'd always be there while she window-shopped, and now that may not be true? Was she upset because, although she's moving on, she doesn't like the thought of him with anyone else? Any of the above? All? None?

And there is one other thing that Amy is silent about: what she actually valued about the relationship. Again, we could tell her (some of us, at least) why she should value her relationship and/or Sheldon. But what, specifically, did she get out of it? Did she like him specifically ('sweet babboo' etc.)? Because her current muted response to Bernie's slagging him off, and her vaguely-fond-but-irritated Skype session suggests the demeanour of someone who had mentally checked out of her relationship long, long ago. Did she like- not Sheldon, but the feeling of having a boyfriend? The circle of friends being with Sheldon brought into her life? Was she only with Sheldon because she thought she couldn't do better? For me, it's pretty important to believe that Amy positively values Sheldon and her relationship with him, because why would I root for her to go back to something she only tolerated because she thought she could do no better? And there is also the small matter that Sheldon has been shown to be distraught about the loss of Amy, and emphatically not because she kissed his ouchies and boo-boos. Sheldon has been shown to not be transactional about his relationship with Amy. I am not blaming Amy for not being arse over tea-kettle for Sheldon or whatever, but without some indication from her about what was wrong and right about her relationship, there's nothing there for me to root for. Amy should move on, now that she knows that she has options. Nobody should be so grateful to be in a relationship that they tolerate unending misery or frustration, and nobody should be so besotted with another human being that they're willing to put up with being a fall-back.

And I used the phrase 'trust' before, because it matters. I've watched shows seething with subtext: Mad Men and The Good Wife come to mind. Neither of these shows is interested in spelling out their characters' motivations, but I trust that the writers have respect and care for the journey of their characters. I'm willing to shoulder my share of the burden, because I trust that the writers have something coherent in mind. These writers? I've been burned too many times. I wouldn't put it remotely past them to get bored with this 'Broken Sheldon, Hidden Amy' narrative and have Amy running back to Sheldon, and crank up 'Oblivious Sheldon, Frustrated Amy' once again. 'What?' They'll shrug. 'We never told you what Amy's beef was, because she had no beef. We just wrote Sheldon to be annoying enough that she could be mad, but she was always going to go back. Once we wrote Sheldon to stop being annoying, she stopped being mad and went back to him. We're geniuses!'

And also, regarding consistent characterisation: yes, this is why I said consistent, not constant. I don't need the characters to never evolve, just for the shape of said evolution to be consistent with what we've seen. Sheldon's behaviour is consistent with a fragile, highly change-averse, somewhat spoiled individual, undergoing fairly significant trauma. Amy's behaviour is consistent with............... well, to me, it is consistent with writers wanting to explore what a heartbroken Sheldon looks like, and giving Amy precisely the reactions necessary to precipitate and/or deepen said heartbreak.

Beautifully written as always.  Loved the bold part.

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I´m really curious, what Sheldon is going to do. But he has to act soon, if he decides to fight for his love and give Dave a kick in his posterior!

Sheldon strikes back!! :dwarf:

mmmm sexy Angry Sheldon is definitely hot.

I'd love for him to put threats aside and just stand infant of Amy and say to Dave 'If you want her you can have her but don't make the same mistakes that I did, cause I lost her. Treat her like the princess she is, she even has a tiara to prove it' and them Amy would be all like 'did you mean that?' and then they go off to talk :) . It would literally tear me in two him giving Amy away like that but seeing Sheldon be realistic is all Amy wants. It's like the spiderman quote scene. I love those moments.

Just wanted to pop by and say - hugs to you all for tomorrow  mornings TR ( here in Scotland ) tonight's for you guys !! . 

I really really want something positive towards reconciliation , please please please :) . 

See you all in chat for our stressful waiting!!! 

I hate waiting till the following day -_- I end up getting up really early, reading them, posting something really angry about how they're treating Shamy, then go back to sleep :laugh: 

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mmmm sexy Angry Sheldon is definitely hot.

I'd love for him to put threats aside and just stand infant of Amy and say to Dave 'If you want her you can have her but don't make the same mistakes that I did, cause I lost her. Treat her like the princess she is, she even has a tiara to prove it' and them Amy would be all like 'did you mean that?' and then they go off to talk :) . It would literally tear me in two him giving Amy away like that but seeing Sheldon be realistic is all Amy wants. It's like the spiderman quote scene. I love those moments.

I wonder what Amy has done with the Tiara.  If she ever looks at it and thinks of Sheldon.   What about the Xmas picture?   What about rice Sheldon?    What about the Tardis?   Does she ever even think about him anymore or has she put everything that reminds her of their relationship away?

How does someone erase five years from their life and be as happy and content as she has appeared until their moment in the stairwell?

On a side note, I also noticed she got her ears pierced, but we haven't seen her wearing earrings since.

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