Jump to content

[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


Tensor
 Share

Recommended Posts

Is there any point them being back together right now? Amy hasn't expressed any interest in taking Sheldon back and I dont see her just saying yes straight away to a surprise proposal From Sheldon

 

This will drag on all season 

We may not get a proposal until early next season or late this season and I'm okay with that. It would seem wrong for him to propose so soon when they basically have to "start over" again, in my opinion.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But do we really know that the audience is getting bored or think the jokes are stale, based on the comments of people on the internet?  This show has had people griping online about changed characters, stale jokes, boring storylines since almost the beginning or at least since S4, when Amy was introduced.  This was even as the ratings began to skyrocket.

People love to complain about TV online--it's practically a national pastime.  And those who are enjoying the show as it is are less likely to go online--especially among the wider audience.

The writers are not naive and are not operating in a vacuum.  They do get immediate feedback from the studio audience and probably have a better feel for the mood of the audience than do the writers of shows like Modern Family, who write more or less in a vacuum, not knowing how the audience will react until after the episodes start to air.

Just because a percentage of the audience doesn't like or understand a particular storyline doesn't mean the writers don't know what they're doing and need us to tell them what to do.

Or they don't care because they are CBS's cash cow and people are sheep to them. Also they don't have a plan, just like they didn't have a resolution for the train ride. They are going to write the story till they are bored with it, drop it like hot rock into an emotionally unsatisfying and trite resolution. After which everything returns to how it was, including Sheldon continuing as Lenny's pet dog with no further commentary. It's not Sheldon who hates change, it's Molaro.

And that is actually one of the best case scenarios.

My parents are old and hate the show this season but watch out of habit... Just like 2 1/2 men.

 

Edited by Chaliceinnana
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or they don't care because they are CBS's cash cow and people are sheep to them. Also they don't have a plan, just like they didn't have a resolution for the train ride. They are going to write the story till they are bored with it, drop it like hot rock into an emotionally unsatisfying and trite resolution. After which everything returns to how it was, including Sheldon continuing as Lenny's pet dog with no further commentary. It's not Sheldon who hates change, it's Molaro.

And that is actually one of the best case scenarios.

My parents are old and hate the show this season but watch out of habit... Just like 2 1/2 men.

 

How do you know they don't have a plan for this storyline?  How do you know they're going to "drop it like a hot rock" and that the resolution will be "unsatisfying and trite"?  Have you been sitting in on the writers' room?  Just because they don't plot out entire seasons like a conspiracy show doesn't mean they don't have a general outline or a plan.  They have famously said they don't plan ahead, but in many cases they have to have done so as we have seen play out with other storylines.

Your parents do not a realistic statistic make.  My sisters both watch and have been enjoying this season.  They don't go online and talk about it though.  So, do my two sisters cancel out your two parents?

CBS/WB does care about it's cash cow, if you want to get down to that aspect.  They need it to continue to draw in the ratings, but they're not going to steer it this way or that based on the online rantings of a tiny percentage of the audience.  No show should ever micromanage their storytelling that way.  Besides, who would they listen to?  The Shamy fans?  The Lenny fans?  Fans of the other characters?  Those who want to get rid of Amy and Bernie?  Shenny fans?

They can't write according to audience consensus, even if they wanted to, which they shouldn't, because there is NO AUDIENCE CONSENSUS when it comes to what the audience wants.  Everyone wants something different as can be seen in this microcosm of the fandom.

If you go to the other forum, the reactions are somewhat different than here.  So, again, who's opinion or desire should the writers or producers follow?

As always, they can only tell the story they want to tell in the way they want to tell it.  Otherwise they're selling out to whoever decides to yell the loudest, and that would be disastrous.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been interesting reading on this thread how differently everyone interprets this staircase scene.  I guess it just goes to show, how differently people see the show based on their own personal experiences.

This is how I saw things.  Sheldon to me, isn't happily moving on and just accepting things are over with Amy.  I think he's quite lost and isn't sure what to do.  In his head, he was perfectly happy, about to propose to his long term girlfriend that he loved.  They get into the Flash Fight, and she tells him that she needs time apart.  Which (Amy had a right to do, but I think she should have communicated her reasons better to him), comes super out of left field to him.  So he reacts badly, and is freaking out and lashing out.  He doesn't know what he did wrong, and how his life got turned upside down in a flash (bad pun).  So he's trying in all the wrong ways to convince her to go back to him, and insults her in the process.  She freaks out, has had enough and breaks it off with him.

He still doesn't understand what happened there.  Amy hasn't really communicated her feelings about why she broke up with him.  And what does he hear from his friends?  Penny blurts out that Amy thought he was a bad boyfriend.  Leonard tells him that Amy deserves to be happy.  So his two closest friends tell him basically, that he was making Amy unhappy.  I think that equate to him, that he made Amy unhappy and that she stopped loving him.  I think he's very broken over the fact that she no longer loves him...and I think he said how he felt in the 2003 episode when he said that Amy will marry someone so much better than him.  I think that's why is isn't "chasing" Amy and telling him he loves her.  He's been convinced and now believes himself that he isn't good enough for her.  When they met on the staircase, that's what I saw in Sheldon.  I quiet resigned sadness that Amy no longer loves him. I tells her about asking out women, but there is not heart or passion in it.  Just resignation.  A way for him to dull the pain.  He's doing what his friends have suggested, and not because he has any real desire to meet other women, but because he doesn't know what else to do to make the hurt stop.

As for Amy, her pain was quite apparent on the staircase.  That's the tricky thing when you are the person breaking up with someone.  She ended their relationship, but it doesn't mean that she didn't love Sheldon, or is eager to date other people.  But when he said that he asked out other women, she felt upset.  It's a totally natural reaction.  She is probably thinking, wasn't I special to him?  Did our relationship mean nothing?  But at the same time, she is the one that told him she no longer wanted to be with him.  So it's in his rights to "move on".  It always hurts to see though.  He's not really moving on, but she doesn't know that.  So she is blindly trying to "move on" also.

Well that's my take.

I absolutely love your take and agree 100%.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes that's exactly it.

And then Penny will marry Sheldon and the universe will turn upon its head.

No I think Sheldon will date the Vanessa girl for five years and then propose to her using that ring.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, look, this is tricky. On the one hand, I completely agree that this 'Amy thought she had a date, but he loves Shelly more than her! Tee hee!' drivel is just- ugh. And I hate what this whole misbegotten arc has done to two characters I enjoyed so much, turning them into flouncing vehicles for shitty high school level Big Misunderstanding tropes before my eyes. I hate it so much that I have sympathy with basically anyone who isolates any part of it to dislike. Because I hate this storyline. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaates it, precious.

On the other hand: come on now. Sheldon harassed her in the immediate aftermath of their break/break-up, Amy reacted with pretty justifiable irritation, and Sheldon then left her to her own devices. It's a bit hard on the man to accuse him of ignoring her wishes in the first instance, and then saying 'but you don't care! You're not fighting for her!' when he listens. How would you have him fight or demonstrate that he cares? And how would he do this demonstrating while leaving her alone as she wishes? And if we think that Amy is so hurt by seeing Sheldon that she can't even make eye contact with him, why wouldn't we accord Sheldon-who has made explicit overtures to Amy- the same benefit of the doubt?

Regarding moving on: something about the way JP played the stairwell scene makes me wonder if this is still a gambit from the man to get a reaction from Amy. Something about the stare he gave her when he mentioned dating other women. I was wondering if he was trying to get her to respond. Wrong-headed? Immature? Petulant? Unfair to any female who actually likes him? Absolutely. Does it in any way obligate Amy to return his regard? Of course not. 

And even if you disagree- even if you think Sheldon has mystifyingly yo-yo-ed from flat despair to relatively chipper roll-up-your-sleeves-and-crack-on-with-it moving on- well, unfortunately, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Both Amy and Sheldon have been bombarded with messages from their (presumably) well-meaning friends telling them to move on, that the best way to get over someone is to get under someone else etc*. Sheldon specifically has been told that his way of dealing with relationships is all wrong. So I can't really blame either Amy or Sheldon for taking the advice of their supposedly more experienced friends. I'll even swallow my discomfort about Amy's apparently having been on that damn dating app before her friends told her to do it? I think? Correct me if I am wrong. Because I wouldn't put it past Amy, God love her, (no, seriously- I have always enjoyed the fact that Amy has such a process-oriented approach to social situations) to have gotten at Penny's Cosmo and to have internalised a whole bunch of dumbass dating advice, long before Penny and Bernie even talked to her. 

The last part of your post tempts me to ask a rather impish question: do you think that you would have been fine with it if Amy's date had gone swimmingly, and Sheldon's had gone terribly?

* And-what? Seriously, is that how even the Muggles do it? Get out of a five year relationship and jump back into the dating pool? Look, I am not saying that the gang should be trying to get Sheldon and Amy back together. I completely get that if they thought Amy was unhappy with Sheldon, then she shouldn't go back to him. But seriously? Right back on the dating carousel after the breakup of a long relationship? For either Sheldon or Amy? The only way that that makes sense to me is if the gang doesn't believe that Sheldon and Amy were in a 'real' relationship. You know, because of the lack of bathing suit parts action. Which- okay, maybe I buy that from Howard, Raj and Bernie. I don't really buy it from Leonard and Penny, who have been shown to be more empathetic. Ugh, writers, why are you being so dumb with these characters?

Wowbagger, if I ever have to go to court for anything, I want you to be my attorney.   Your posts are so extremely thought out and well written, that even when I may disagree, which is not the case here, I can't help but jump on board with you.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My heart hurts for BOTH of these characters. I'm not Team Sheldon or Team Amy here. I just wish they would leave Shamy alone for a while and let other characters actually have stories, besides a scene here or there. Yes I'm pissed about Shamy but I feel they really need to focus somewhere else for a bit, especially Raj. He might as well not even be in a relationship with Emily because the writers don't care enough about his character to give it a storyline. Luckily Emily is in this week's episode so maybe that problem will be addressed, but I feel they need to have him break up with her because he needs to learn to be happy on his own and not always have to be attached to someone romantically. 

Shamy-wise, Steve Molaro is going to milk this for all it's worth and he's not going to care what we say because viewers are still going to watch the show. It looks as though he's going to have this drag out the whole season or at least until the 200th episode. I really hope he doesn't but honestly if they got back together sooner, it would be too rushed and not doing either of the characters justice. 

Sorry for the Raj tangent, that's another thing that's annoying me lol. 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No I think Sheldon will date the Vanessa girl for five years and then propose to her using that ring.

In five years maybe George Jr. will decide to merry the "wh..e" is dating (according to his mother) and will ask the ring back!!! All things considered, he is the first born, the ring should be his heirloom!

Just kidding!!! We all know whose finger that ring belongs!

Edited by mirs1
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wowbagger, if I ever have to go to court for anything, I want you to be my attorney.   Your posts are so extremely thought out and well written, that even when I may disagree, which is not the case here, I can't help but jump on board with you.

jena, ain't nobody more gracious (in agreement or disagreement) than you. Many thanks!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

misc_039.thumb.gif.de20549ee23b2d45c7d68

:shy:

How do you know they don't have a plan for this storyline?  How do you know they're going to "drop it like a hot rock" and that the resolution will be "unsatisfying and trite"?  Have you been sitting in on the writers' room?  Just because they don't plot out entire seasons like a conspiracy show doesn't mean they don't have a general outline or a plan.  They have famously said they don't plan ahead, but in many cases they have to have done so as we have seen play out with other storylines.

Your parents do not a realistic statistic make.  My sisters both watch and have been enjoying this season.  They don't go online and talk about it though.  So, do my two sisters cancel out your two parents?

CBS/WB does care about it's cash cow, if you want to get down to that aspect.  They need it to continue to draw in the ratings, but they're not going to steer it this way or that based on the online rantings of a tiny percentage of the audience.  No show should ever micromanage their storytelling that way.  Besides, who would they listen to?  The Shamy fans?  The Lenny fans?  Fans of the other characters?  Those who want to get rid of Amy and Bernie?  Shenny fans?

They can't write according to audience consensus, even if they wanted to, which they shouldn't, because there is NO AUDIENCE CONSENSUS when it comes to what the audience wants.  Everyone wants something different as can be seen in this microcosm of the fandom.

If you go to the other forum, the reactions are somewhat different than here.  So, again, who's opinion or desire should the writers or producers follow?

As always, they can only tell the story they want to tell in the way they want to tell it.  Otherwise they're selling out to whoever decides to yell the loudest, and that would be disastrous.

So well said!   A voice of reason in the wilderness......

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you know they don't have a plan for this storyline?  How do you know they're going to "drop it like a hot rock" and that the resolution will be "unsatisfying and trite"?  Have you been sitting in on the writers' room?  Just because they don't plot out entire seasons like a conspiracy show doesn't mean they don't have a general outline or a plan.  They have famously said they don't plan ahead, but in many cases they have to have done so as we have seen play out with other storylines.

Your parents do not a realistic statistic make.  My sisters both watch and have been enjoying this season.  They don't go online and talk about it though.  So, do my two sisters cancel out your two parents?

CBS/WB does care about it's cash cow, if you want to get down to that aspect.  They need it to continue to draw in the ratings, but they're not going to steer it this way or that based on the online rantings of a tiny percentage of the audience.  No show should ever micromanage their storytelling that way.  Besides, who would they listen to?  The Shamy fans?  The Lenny fans?  Fans of the other characters?  Those who want to get rid of Amy and Bernie?  Shenny fans?

They can't write according to audience consensus, even if they wanted to, which they shouldn't, because there is NO AUDIENCE CONSENSUS when it comes to what the audience wants.  Everyone wants something different as can be seen in this microcosm of the fandom.

If you go to the other forum, the reactions are somewhat different than here.  So, again, who's opinion or desire should the writers or producers follow?

As always, they can only tell the story they want to tell in the way they want to tell it.  Otherwise they're selling out to whoever decides to yell the loudest, and that would be disastrous.

Molaro has pretty much stated so over and over again that they don't have a plan and are letting it go wherever it goes.   I think that, along with the way the story has snowballed and has seemingly gone  what appear to many fans "off course" are evidences that they do not have a plan.   But the biggest evidence is from Molaro himself stating they don't have one.   

For the rest of your post...I do agree that they care about their cash cow and bottom line they will write a story based on what they want (not regarding what fans post or say) because that is their job and what they are hired to do, and they will keep in mind that they cannot lose audience or their cash-cow goes away and none of them want that.   

I also agree that opinions, even on this forum vary so it is hard to listen to fan comments, although I do think there has been an overwhelming increase in dissatisfaction across the internet with the show overall this season, especially regarding how the Shamy story is being handled based on everything I have been reading.   So when they see a trend that is consistent, even if individual specific comments are not consistent, that they should be listening to and trying to get a handle on how they can make it a more pleasant journey they have planned.   

But you made some good points and valid points above.   

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Molaro has pretty much stated so over and over again that they don't have a plan and are letting it go wherever it goes.   I think that, along with the way the story has snowballed and has seemingly gone  what appear to many fans "off course" are evidences that they do not have a plan.   But the biggest evidence is from Molaro himself stating they don't have one.   

For the rest of your post...I do agree that they care about their cash cow and bottom line they will write a story based on what they want (not regarding what fans post or say) because that is their job and what they are hired to do, and they will keep in mind that they cannot lose audience or their cash-cow goes away and none of them want that.   

I also agree that opinions, even on this forum vary so it is hard to listen to fan comments, although I do think there has been an overwhelming increase in dissatisfaction across the internet with the show overall this season, especially regarding how the Shamy story is being handled based on everything I have been reading.   So when they see a trend that is consistent, even if individual specific comments are not consistent, that they should be listening to and trying to get a handle on how they can make it a more pleasant journey they have planned.   

But you made some good points and valid points above.   

Molaro has stated that they do not plan very far in the future and do not plot out whole seasons, but I do think, based on how this has developed on what I consider to be a clear through-line, that they do indeed have at least a big general idea for how this story is playing out.  Perhaps not every line, but certainly it seems that they have a general outline.

Of course, I suspect that will not seem to be the case for those who already decided, after the first episode, that the breakup made no sense and that the writers were making it up as they went along, etc., etc..  If one is predetermined not to see any sense in the story, then it's hard to actually see the organic line.

So, some people claim it makes no sense, while others see the sense in the story.  But it's wrong, IMO, to claim to know what is or is not going through the minds of the writers, or to assume that they don't know what they're doing just because one doesn't like the story or the way it is unfolding.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They always say they don't plan,in every interview, at every Comic-Con,  but it's really hard for me to believe that it is possible to run a hit sit-com without planning. They say those thing just to boast about their comedic style and because maybe the first Season everything was new and they could do whatever they wanted, basically there weren't story lines to develop, but just characters to create. Now (but, seriously, since Season 2) it is not believable, there are so many actors on the show, so many story lines to follow, so many  things to consider. For example, imagine they had decided out of the blue that Amy and Sheldon had to date somebody and that their dates had to be some pretty famous actors, just for fun and without a plan. Do you think it is possible? You have to cast those actors and find time in their schedule, one of them is even living in another country half of the time...They have pretty much clear the time line of this plot and where they want to go...Maybe we don't like their "plan" (I don't like it very much, indeed)  or just we can't already see where everything is going, but the plan, whatever it is,  is there!

Edited by mirs1
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Molaro has stated that they do not plan very far in the future and do not plot out whole seasons, but I do think, based on how this has developed on what I consider to be a clear through-line, that they do indeed have at least a big general idea for how this story is playing out.  Perhaps not every line, but certainly it seems that they have a general outline.

Of course, I suspect that will not seem to be the case for those who already decided, after the first episode, that the breakup made no sense and that the writers were making it up as they went along, etc., etc..  If one is predetermined not to see any sense in the story, then it's hard to actually see the organic line.

So, some people claim it makes no sense, while others see the sense in the story.  But it's wrong, IMO, to claim to know what is or is not going through the minds of the writers, or to assume that they don't know what they're doing just because one doesn't like the story or the way it is unfolding.

To be fair...I don't believe Molaro when he states what he states. I do think they have at least an overall plan, as you said at least an outline or direction and know where they are headed. I have a hard time believing they can come in week after week and just "wing it."   So yes, I do agree with you, but I was just stating where the perception may come from where they don't have a plan statement was made earlier.   It comes from Molaro himself.    Molaro stretches the truth.  He said we would meet Amy's family and learn a lot more about her.  Well so far we got a one-sided (didn't see) conversation with her mother and a one liner about her being locked in "sin closet" that we learned new.  But we didn't get anything further.  Honestly, there has been very little focus on Amy.  Most of the focus is about Sheldon and that is part of the problem with this story.   Without Amy's POV, it is very one-sided and has caused a lot of confusion in the fan base. So yeah, Molaro often stretches the truth.

I highly doubt they can run the business without having a course....they clearly have to have some sort of plan in place.  They may deviate here and there and get back on course, which is why it may come across as "going all over the place" and may have "snowballed", but it still I think will result in an overall direction and end where they plan to end.   Whether that will be satisfying to many fans remains to be seen.  So far it has been a pretty painful and uncomfortable journey for me and I think for others based on comments I have read.   But that doesn't mean they are not heading somewhere.   It is just unclear to this viewer where so far.

 

Edited by stardustmelody

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair...I don't believe Molaro when he states what he states. I do think they have at least an overall plan, as you said at least an outline or direction and know where they are headed. I have a hard time believing they can come in week after week and just "wing it."   So yes, I do agree with you, but I was just stating where the perception may come from where they don't have a plan statement was made earlier.   It comes from Molaro himself.    Molaro stretches the truth.  He said we would meet Amy's family and learn a lot more about her.  Well so far we got a one-sided (didn't see) conversation with her mother and a one liner about her being locked in "sin closet" that we learned new.  But we didn't get anything further.   So Molaro often stretches the truth.

I highly doubt they can run the business without having a course....they clearly have to have some sort of plan in place.  They may deviate here and there and get back on course, which is why it may come across as "going all over the place" and may have "snowballed", but it still I think will result in an overall direction and end where they plan to end.   Whether that will be satisfying to many fans remains to be seen.  So far it has been a pretty painful and uncomfortable journey for me and I think for others based on comments I have read.   But that doesn't mean they are not heading somewhere.   It is just unclear to this viewer where so far.

 

Far from me to defend Molaro; actually he sometimes lies in our faces (about Shamy's dating, for example) but about Amy's family, all he did was to answer "Yes" at CC when a fan asked if we would have  known something about Amy's family. From there, we all started (and I was among the ones who did it) imagining who would have been casted as Amy's father, if there was actually an Amy's father, what role her family would have had in Shamy reconciliation and so on...

Edited by mirs1
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Tensor locked this topic
  • Tensor unlocked this topic
  • Tensor locked and unlocked this topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.