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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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Especially when according to the spoilers he calls Amy and leaves her a VM to tell her that he's being filmed for the documentary and wants her to watch it.   (See the pic of him on the couch with his cell phone.)

Look how cute he is for gosh sake's.......kiss and make up already!   :kissing:

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http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/10/the-big-bang-theory-episode-907-spock.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Edited by vonmar
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I’ve been thinking about the idea of Sheldon & Amy being OOC, and for me it’s not totally that that’s bothering me, it’s just that it’s OOC for the relationship they had and the story they were telling about that relationship. And I guess this is a new phase of that story which is great and all, but I suppose I’m just not enjoying it as much.

 

 

 

There’s some troubling implications to me lately that diminish the quirky and lovely match they once were and run counter to what I understood about Shamy in the past:

 

1. 

That Amy was a doormat the whole time and now that she has learned to speak up and stand up for herself, she did what she should have done awhile ago and break it off with Sheldon. Penny particularly implied this when she said something to the effect of, “I can’t believe Amy had the guts to go through with it.”

 

2. 

That now that Amy (and Leonard and Penny) has connected Sheldon to his emotions, he can fill the void she left with someone else.

 

I get that the writers will eventually (hopefully) clear up these misconceptions, but I’m worried about how they’ll do it. (Also as a side note, I’m still in line with Koops and Starsamaria and others who have pointed out that Amy was kind of brash and unapologetic in early seasons so I seriously dislike the implication that she’s always been a wallflower … but I think that ship has sailed.)

 

I never felt before that Amy didn’t love Sheldon for exactly who he is. All of her lines about loving how he rearranged the cheese aisle and memorized the Pringles can ingredients and calling him her Sweet Baboo painted a really nice picture of how much she was in love with him specifically, not just having a boyfriend. Mayim always made how Amy felt about Sheldon really palpable, and that’s part of why I loved this relationship so much. And sure Amy was hesitant on certain topics, but she also challenged Sheldon and spoke up when things were really bothering her – Mars, intimacy in love spell, etc.

 

I also feel like they made it clear that Sheldon grew to love Amy specifically. He was starting to understand why he loved Amy – not just because she was like him or did things for him or made him feel safe and status quo-y – but because of who she was. The Christmas episode – although not my favorite episode in general – did a really nice job of showing that Sheldon was starting to understand his connection with Amy better. I feel like the whole point of that episode was that Amy’s happiness legitimately mattered to Sheldon, even when it didn’t benefit him. He wasn’t just admiring her as she watched French movies and listened to harp music, he loved that she loved French movies and harp music – that they made her happy and spoke uniquely to who she is as a person.

 

I feel like they can still salvage this (I hope) eventual reconciliation by highlighting that these two people do genuinely love each other for who they are, I just hope it’s not glossed over in a quick heavy handed make up. I feel like there’s a lot for them to talk about and convey to the audience and I hope they’re given the room to do it and are able to balance the emotional and comedic elements. This break up has painted their relationship with such broad strokes and big misunderstandings and big emotions (at least from Sheldon). I miss the nuanced growing together that they did in the past and hope some of those subtle notes can be brought out again as they find their way back together.

 

It was so much fun to see two people fumbling their way through a relationship. Both had some serious issues to work out for themselves and together, but it was so much more interesting to me to see them work it out together. The conversations in love spell and during valentine’s day and prom where they both give a little and realize their mistakes & limitations have so much more texture. I hope we get a chance to see those moments again.

 

 

 

I just have to say that this is the most spot on description of what was going on with him in that episode.   Yeah,  Sheldon was being Sheldon, but Bernie got him to let down his guard and he zoned out and we got to see what he really thinks and how he really feels.   

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Especially when according to the spoilers he calls Amy and leaves her a VM to tell her that he's being filmed for the documentary and wants her to watch it.   (See the pic of him on the couch with his cell phone.)

Yes, that one is very moving, too...he seems so happy and longing for sharing with Amy the news of the documentary!

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I can't quote, it just doesn't work for me. I'm mainly replying to Sarah7:

 

You can't compare the " I wish you were dead " and the normal boyfriend for a very simple fact: he just said that horrible sentence once and as awful it sounds, he didn't mean it. But Amy said at least twice she wanted to have " a normal boyfriend " and then you can't just sweep it away because if she says it twice, then it must mean something. And I'm not even making any reference to all the mentions of her frustration with physical intimacy and romance. She may not be asking for Prince Charming but it is clear to me that she has a very precise idea of what a " normal boyfriend " is and is trying hard to make Sheldon come closer to that definition, no matter what his feelings are. Have you noticed that in terms of romance and physical intimacy, we tend to approve of Amy's behaviour and laugh at or look down at Sheldon's reluctance? The more I think of it, the more it makes me uncomfortable. As if there was a norm and that Sheldon had to go along with it. But he's not reluctant on purpose. He has lots of issues to come to terms with and it's taking time to solve them.

 

As for Amy's patience, sorry but I ( once again ) strongly disagree. Pushing your boyfriend to hold your hand, hug, have date nights and so on is NOT being patient. It's being pushy.

 

And to conclude Sheldon would not have come to her in an aggressive way if she had explained more clearly her point of view. I'm not developing, it has already been said over and over by many others.

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I can't quote, it just doesn't work for me. I'm mainly replying to Sarah7:

 

You can't compare the " I wish you were dead " and the normal boyfriend for a very simple fact: he just said that horrible sentence once and as awful it sounds, he didn't mean it. But Amy said at least twice she wanted to have " a normal boyfriend " and then you can't just sweep it away because if she says it twice, then it must mean something. And I'm not even making any reference to all the mentions of her frustration with physical intimacy and romance. She may not be asking for Prince Charming but it is clear to me that she has a very precise idea of what a " normal boyfriend " is and is trying hard to make Sheldon come closer to that definition, no matter what his feelings are. Have you noticed that in terms of romance and physical intimacy, we tend to approve of Amy's behaviour and laugh at or look down at Sheldon's reluctance? The more I think of it, the more it makes me uncomfortable. As if there was a norm and that Sheldon had to go along with it. But he's not reluctant on purpose. He has lots of issues to come to terms with and it's taking time to solve them.

 

As for Amy's patience, sorry but I ( once again ) strongly disagree. Pushing your boyfriend to hold your hand, hug, have date nights and so on is NOT being patient. It's being pushy.

 

And to conclude Sheldon would not have come to her in an aggressive way if she had explained more clearly her point of view. I'm not developing, it has already been said over and over by many others.

I'm going again to the characterization she did of Sheldon in her FF, because I think that's the clearest and canon evidence we have about her idea of an 'ideal boyfriend', and what she would like Sheldon to become for her, which is Sheldon just as he is (aloof and even distant) with the tiny but important difference that he was able to make her feel there was no future without her.

Sorry, but all those things you have mentioned are just comprimises they did in order to have a relationship that could be satisfying for both, you make it sound as if the only needs that matter in the relationship are Sheldon's, also, you forget to mention that all those terrible things Amy 'pushed' him to do were done in a fashion that suited Sheldon better, because I guess Amy would have preferred to hug, hold hands (and kiss, and much more) in any moment she wanted, not following a convention dictated by him, also to have dates everytime she wanted, not following an strict agenda he probably set.

Amy was unrealistically patient with him, she even behaved as an absolute doormat in many ocassions, she truly bended backwards in order to give him time to catch up with her, if that was not enough for you, then there's no point in arguing.

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I've never said that the only needs that matters are Sheldon's, I'm saying that many people tend to be on Amy's side because her idea of a relationship is closer to what they experience and that it is unfair because his needs even though they are different matter too.

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I'm going again to the characterization she did of Sheldon in her FF, because I think that's the clearest and canon evidence we have about her idea of an 'ideal boyfriend', and what she would like Sheldon to become for her, which is Sheldon just as he is (aloof and even distant) with the tiny but important difference that he was able to make her feel there was no future without her.

Sorry, but all those things you have mentioned are just comprimises they did in order to have a relationship that could be satisfying for both, you make it sound as if the only needs that matter in the relationship are Sheldon's, also, you forget to mention that all those terrible things Amy 'pushed' him to do were done in a fashion that suited Sheldon better, because I guess Amy would have preferred to hug, hold hands (and kiss, and much more) in any moment she wanted, not following a convention dictated by him, also to have dates everytime she wanted, not following an strict agenda he probably set.

Amy was unrealistically patient with him, she even behaved as an absolute doormat in many ocassions, she truly bended backwards in order to give him time to catch up with her, if that was not enough for you, then there's no point in arguing.

I totally agree with your first point about the fan fic.

But everything else seems a bit unfair and it seems like you are doing what you accuse Cherry of doing here,  just the other way around.   All of those things that Sheldon did are huge because, it's  Sheldon.  Why are his efforts brushed aside because,  "well, that what people do in relationships"?  The point is,  Sheldon did those things for her and they count just as much as Amy's patience.  And just like Sheldon didn't always come through,  there are times where Amy was pushy.  

She evolved quicker than Sheldon and that's okay.   It's also okay that Sheldon hasn't matched her pace.   I personally believe he's almost there now,  but he wasn't wrong about how comfortable he was or was not about the pace of the relationship.   That doesn't mean she can't be frustrated.   It just means her frustration does not equal his way being wrong. 

Edited by nickelette424
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You can't compare the " I wish you were dead " and the normal boyfriend for a very simple fact: he just said that horrible sentence once and as awful it sounds, he didn't mean it. But Amy said at least twice she wanted to have " a normal boyfriend " and then you can't just sweep it away because if she says it twice, then it must mean something. And I'm not even making any reference to all the mentions of her frustration with physical intimacy and romance. She may not be asking for Prince Charming but it is clear to me that she has a very precise idea of what a " normal boyfriend " is and is trying hard to make Sheldon come closer to that definition, no matter what his feelings are. Have you noticed that in terms of romance and physical intimacy, we tend to approve of Amy's behaviour and laugh at or look down at Sheldon's reluctance? The more I think of it, the more it makes me uncomfortable. As if there was a norm and that Sheldon had to go along with it. But he's not reluctant on purpose. He has lots of issues to come to terms with and it's taking time to solve them.

As for Amy's patience, sorry but I ( once again ) strongly disagree. Pushing your boyfriend to hold your hand, hug, have date nights and so on is NOT being patient. It's being pushy.

And to conclude Sheldon would not have come to her in an aggressive way if she had explained more clearly her point of view. I'm not developing, it has already been said over and over by many others.

I think when Amy says she wants a normal boyfriend, it means she wants one who is in tune to her feeling and needs, not that she wants someone who is not quirky like Sheldon.  I also don't think she means a romantic who is going to sweep her off her feet either, but she wouldn't mind a vase of flowers from Sheldon once in awhile. 

Both are guilty of saying unkind things and hurting the other.   Both are guilty of manipulating the other.   Both are guilty of giving into the other.  Both are guilty of pushing to get their way.  Both are guilty of making the other happy.  Both are guilty of picking on the others interests.   There is a lot more 50/50 in their relationship than they get credit for sometimes.

All couples go through ebbs and flows where they have to compromise and do things they are uncomfortable with to make the other happy.   Sheldon asked Amy to be his girlfriend.   Of course, Amy is going to want the things that come with a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.   Asking for a hand holding, a hug, or a date with your boyfriend is not being pushy, nor would it break Sheldon to do such things.  These are identifiers in the upgrade of the relationship, otherwise why not just remain in the category of friends?     In fact, I think he enjoys it now.   Something he would not have known if she hadn't pushed him out of his comfort zone.   Also, Sheldon would not have done these things if he didn't want to make her happy or because he actually wants to but won't admit to it.   She's pushed for sex, too, but he hasn't put out.  She's asked to live with him before the break up, and he never caved.   So, Amy may push, but it's Sheldon's decision on whether he wants to give in or push back.

From what I can tell from Sheldon's personality, he enjoys the push and the challenge.   His mother does it.   Leonard and Penny do it.   Amy does it.   He does his best when he is forced to confront something he's trying to avoid and then discovers the result is not as bad as he thought.   It's just how he operates.

Amy has been extremely patient, IMO.    Sheldon is not a bad boyfriend.   He's been good to her in many ways.   He's shown affection for her in his own way.  He's bended to her will.   However, he is the one who has set the pace in the relationship.   He's been selfish.   He's withheld vital information from her as a partner in their relationship.  He's insulted her.   She's stuck with him through it all.

The last part, I agree with 100%.   Amy's poor means of and lack of communication contributed to Sheldon's outrageous behavior leading to the break up.    She is as much to blame for the situation they are in as he is.

Edited by jenafan
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The part with Amy really bothered me.  She's gone on 3 dates already?   I think I would have been ok with that scene, if she was just uncomfortable with the gang commenting on the dating app and being jerks and laughing at everyone.  Was she upset because she was uncomfortable, or the fact that she was hiding that she's dating?  Her reaction made me seem like it was more that she was hiding the fact that she was dating.

Sure she was upset on the stairwell, and my heart was breaking for her, but now she hasn't shown in ANY episode that she misses Sheldon at all.  I've seen indifference, annoyance, but no genuine missing of what was good in their relationship.

Like I said in the episode thread...what is this?  Is Sheldon her training boyfriend?  I thought he was special to her.

So sad...I should really go to bed...

But you're totally wrong (IMO, of course). I see it as totally differently. Let me explain: Do you remember how destroyed Any looked when they had the stairway talk? I think that Amy is dating purely and exclusively because she is resigned to having to do so (in her mind, due to Sheldon's comments) She said herself that she didn't know about this dating stuff too much and she is trying to move on as best she can, not because she wants to but because she thinks she has to.  I also happen to think that  she's trying to move on because she is afraid to feel the pain it would cause her to do otherwise. If you think abut it and even though we know it's not like this, but imagine for a second that Sheldon was in fact moving on, what she's doing would be the exact thing she would need to do, wouldn't it. The fact that she already went on 3 dates means nothing. She's simply being efficient, as she's in all other aspects of her life. Of course all of this is just my point of view . YMMV.

Edited by Carlos
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Indeed. And I think it also makes so much sense for Amy when you keep in mind that the writers work with the premise that she wants to be "normal" (for lack of a better term) because she missed out on that during her life.

Speculative Meta Time*:

What I think the writers may be doing here (or rather what I'd completely utterly love if it turns out that this is what they're doing, so I'm horribly biased lol) is that they attempt to bring the character premises for Sheldon and Amy to a more healthy medium. They've said plenty of times that both are cut from the same cloth, but whereas Amy is embracing her new found social life and everything that comes with it, Sheldon is rejecting it and tried to detach himself from his emotions to such a degree that today he can't even tell if he was ever happy back in the day.

During this break up we've already seen and discussed what they're doing with Sheldon. The loss of Amy left him in a complete emotional mess. He's trying to keep it together but we know he'll eventually crack in the upcoming episode. His detachment from the world doesn't work anymore and he's coming to terms with his own humanity.

For Amy I can see that they're doing something similar. Personally, I think that her wish to be one of the cool kids (so to speak) has lead her down a path where she didn't take care enough of her own wants and needs. It was part of an earlier episode that she admitted she'd do anything just to be accepted. And I think this may be the time when she learns to be her own person again. Last week she talked to Stuart about how it took her a long time to speak up and this week we see her doing it by refusing to participate with the app shenanigans. In fact she has been doing that quite a bit his season, like her opposing the girls' makeover ideas and insisting on something she would like instead. Or even her defending Sheldon. I mean, yes, it's harder to pin down as a theme because as a supporting character she doesn't have that many scenes but with this week's episode if feels like a more solid case. She's trying to figure it all out by herself so she takes a step back from her social life and her friends' influence.

If the writers do what I hope they're doing then this break up will leave us with a Sheldon who is better equipped to deal with and show his emotional side, and an Amy with a better sense of self-worth and the ability to detach herself a bit from the expectations and ideals of the "normal" world.

------

*This is me probably giving the writers too much credit, reading way too much into everything and by tomorrow I wouldn't be surprise if this'll turn out to be a load of horseshit. lmao

This was exactly what I meant, April, you perfectly put my feelings into words!:clapping:Anyway, you're not alone in overanalyzing everything, I daresay we all do that 'cause we are crazy shippers and we can't help it xD As for the upcoming taping, to quote Sheldon (and the first Spiderman movie, LOL), "I'm excited and at the same time terrified"... I just know one thing: I'll always be #TeamShamy, no matter what!

tumblr_inline_neodjz8Uv11sssjii.thumb.gi  :wink:

Still hoping for the best :)

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But you're totally wrong (IMO, of course). I see it as differently. Let me explain: Do you remember how destroyed Any looked when they had the stairway talk? I think that Amy is dating purely and exclusively because she is resigned to having to do so (in her mind, due to Sheldon's comments) She said herself that she didn't know about this dating stuff too much and she is trying to move on as best she can, not because she wants to but because she thinks she has to.  I also happen to think that  she's trying to move on because she is afraid to feel the pain it would cause her to do otherwise. If you think abut it and even though we know it's not like this, but imagine for a second that Sheldon was in fact moving on, what she's doing would be the exact thing she would need to do, wouldn't it. The fact that she already went on 3 dates means nothing. She's simply being efficient, as she's in all other aspects of her life. Of course all of this is just my point of view . YMMV.

I was in a pretty bad mood when I wrote my post.  I can see your points, but it bothers me that we are guessing at what Amy is feeling.  The show hasn't really shown us, apart from the stairwell scene.  On the stairwell,  I felt that Sheldon was sad and resigned that Amy no longer loves him.  And Amy was shocked and upset that she thinks he moved on so quickly (even though he didn't).  It's miscommunication abound.  You may very well be correct in your assessment above.  I guess I am just sad that it hasn't been shown from her side, her feelings on being apart, moving forward, her frustrations from Sheldon.  We've gotten a big void on Amy's side of things. 

She seemed so in love with Sheldon.  I guess her reaction to the break up is surprising to me.  That's the part I am having problems with.

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I was in a pretty bad mood when I wrote my post.  I can see your points, but it bothers me that we are guessing at what Amy is feeling.  The show hasn't really shown us, apart from the stairwell scene.  On the stairwell,  I felt that Sheldon was sad and resigned that Amy no longer loves him.  And Amy was shocked and upset that she thinks he moved on so quickly (even though he didn't).  It's miscommunication abound.  You may very well be correct in your assessment above.  I guess I am just sad that it hasn't been shown from her side, her feelings on being apart, moving forward, her frustrations from Sheldon.  We've gotten a big void on Amy's side of things. 

She seemed so in love with Sheldon.  I guess her reaction to the break up is surprising to me.  That's the part I am having problems with.

Count me among the supporters of the "tell us what Amy is feeling/thinking right now please!" outcry, and I will add one more: "please let her shine again!"

However, do you know what equally bothered me for a long, long time? to have to guess Sheldon's feelings. Let's remember that Sheldon's feelings were a mystery for a long time, or at least remained pretty ambiguous. I mean, we knew he wanted her as his girlfriend, yet, at the same time, he didn't want to show her any kind of affection (his reasons for that had been discussed a lot, I understand all his issues and stuff he has to overcome in order to reach that point, I'm not condemning him for it, I'm merely mentioning it), but not just that, he also seemed to have problems to talk with her, spend time with her, enjoy the little time they were together, he doesn't show any kind for respect for her, not even about her intelligence (as he used to do before they were a couple), etc.

Now after he finally said the 'I Love You Too' it could seem like his love for her is quite clear but, before that, didn't we spend countless hours analyzing Sheldon's words and actions, trying to find little, hidden clues that he was struggling with his growing feelings for Amy? because we were left there just as her, wondering what he really felt, and if he ever thought about her, even remotely.

I mean, I think a big part of the problem here lies in the characterization and the dynamic they had for them since the moment they became a couple. I would have loved it to be more balanced from both parts, with a less doormat Amy and a less cruel Sheldon, to show them agreeing more times than we saw them disagreeing, to see them having fun together more than we saw them bored or uncomfortable together, to see Amy more independent and having a life and interests besides Sheldon (I know this one is tricky because the writers don't want to give her more relevance than that of a secondary character, but a couple quality moments in a couple episodes scattered throughout the seasons would had been very welcomed) and to see Sheldon pinning for her more often, instead of him whishing to be far away from her.

That's why the relationship came across as very one-sided for a long time, and that's why I think the decision to make him to 'try to move on' and look for a new girlfriend this soon is not helping at all to change that perception. I mean, we have seen Amy acting 'in love' with him for a long time, while he looked detached, now that the tables were turned for once, and after he has admitted more than once his love for her, this would have been the perfect moment to show him much more invested in her, in trying to get her back, instead of almost immediately looking for a replacement.

 

Edited by sarah7
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