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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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Count me among the supporters of the "tell us what Amy is feeling/thinking right now please!" outcry, and I will add one more: "please let her shine again!"

However, do you know what equally bothered me for a long, long time? to have to guess Sheldon's feelings. Let's remember that Sheldon's feelings were a mystery for a long time, or at least remained pretty ambiguous. I mean, we knew he wanted her as his girlfriend, yet, at the same time, he didn't want to show her any kind of affection (his reasons for that had been discussed a lot, I understand all his issues and stuff he has to overcome in order to reach that point, I'm not condemning him for it, I'm merely mentioning it), but not just that, he also seemed to have problems to talk with her, spend time with her, enjoy the little time they were together, he doesn't show any kind for respect for her, not even about her intelligence (as he used to do before they were a couple), etc.

Now after he finally said the 'I Love You Too' it could seem like his love for her is quite clear but, before that, didn't we spend countless hours analyzing Sheldon's words and actions, trying to find little, hidden clues that he was struggling with his growing feelings for Amy? because we were left there just as her, wondering what he really felt, and if he ever thought about her, even remotely.

I mean, I think a big part of the problem here lies in the characterization and the dynamic they had for them since the moment they became a couple. I would have loved it to be more balanced from both parts, with a less doormat Amy and a less cruel Sheldon, to show them agreeing more times than we saw them disagreeing, to see them having fun together more than we saw them bored or uncomfortable together, to see Amy more independent and having a life and interests besides Sheldon (I know this one is tricky because the writers don't want to give her more relevance than that of a secondary character, but a couple quality moments in a couple episodes scattered throughout the seasons would had been very welcomed) and to see Sheldon pinning for her more often, instead of him whishing to be far away from her.

That's why the relationship came across as very one-sided for a long time, and that's why I think the decision to make him to 'try to move on' and look for a new girlfriend this soon is not helping at all to change that perception. I mean, we have seen Amy acting 'in love' with him for a long time, while he looked detached, now that the tables were turned for once, and after he has admitted more than once his love for her, this would have been the perfect moment to show him much more invested in her, in trying to get her back, instead of almost immediately looking for a replacement.

 

I don't think Sheldon is looking for a replacement so much, as thinking he needs one because the other's are encouraging it. Sheldon before Season 4 never needed anyone to fill that role in his life. He was a Homo Novus, or so he thought. While I hate the idea of him trying to move on, I understand why he feels he must. Amy has shunned him at every turn, in light of his horrible remarks to her in 9x1.  It's one thing for him to know Kripke asked her out, but she refused. It's entirely another to see her dating other men, and letting them kiss her. Especially because they have not yet showed one heart to heart of how deeply her feelings ran causing her to break up with him that night on skype. I don't blame Amy. I blame the writer's for thinking 'this' works. To me, as a fan, it doesn't work. It keeps us in the dark, without a clear cut picture of why it took his comment to be the straw that broke the camel's back in asking for a break. I hate what they have become. Hate it. Because even though Sheldon was selfish, dismissive, and reserved in his treatment of Amy, he had made great strides to change. After the sleepover, I was so proud that he'd finally let her in. It's speculation that he would have propsed on their five year anniversary, until he says THAT was the night he was going to do it. So if it was, then WE can see clearly why he would have been distracted, and trying to calm himself down after thier makeout session. He would have a lot riding on that night, and it makes sense he of all people would have said or done something stupid out of fear. I'm not saying his comments were right. But this is Sheldon. So much of what makes him Sheldon is ingrained in him. I often wonder just how much he CAN control when he says stupid things. Whomever is his significant other must accept that about him. I know many parent's of autisitc children who say their kids are bright, intelligent, and sharp. But they live alone in their minds, ruled by their quirks. You can't pick and choose the good parts of someone like Sheldon. You must accept the whole package. Sheldon is missing that 'chip' of decorum. He says what most people think. I'm not saying Amy has to put up with bad behavior, insults, or coming last in his life. Not at all. But she has to make that choice to accept the fact he may not be able to ever change. She deserves a partner to give her everything she deserves. But Sheldon deserves to be loved for who he is, too. Warts and all. Deep down, he would never mean to cause anyone pain, especially not Amy. What I want more than anything is to get these two in the same room and have them be honest about what they truly want. This hostility on Amy's part comes off as shrewish, and this indifference from Sheldon comes off as childish. After five years of making HUGE strides, this whole thing put them back light years. If/when they reconcile, it will never be the same for me. Sometimes, that may be a good thing. Only time will tell, and we are running out of it!!!! One thing is clear to me as a fan, though, and this is totally my opinion: they've changed so much to go back to the way things were. They need a total makeover now, Shamy 3.0. I want passion, fireworks, and respect on both their parts.

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What time do the spoilers normally come in?

It depends of your time zone. In my case, for example, only at 3 am. But they usually start taping around 6pm and end it around 10pm.

Amy to Sheldon:

"Ok, if you watch Flash in costume,  I´ll watch SuperGirl in costume, but please,  let´s do it together!

Or maybe she's excited about Supergirl's premiere next week, even with the leaking of the pilot a couple of months ago.

I got up mega early last week and tried chat but it all moved a little too fast for me and I've got a feeling that it will be mega busy again tonight! So will someone please post spoilers here or in the Season 9 spoilers thread for peeps like me? :icon_razz:

 

Don't worry. Usually the spoilers are posted on discussion topic at the first opportunity. :icon_cheesygrin:

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I was in a pretty bad mood when I wrote my post.  I can see your points, but it bothers me that we are guessing at what Amy is feeling.  The show hasn't really shown us, apart from the stairwell scene.  On the stairwell,  I felt that Sheldon was sad and resigned that Amy no longer loves him.  And Amy was shocked and upset that she thinks he moved on so quickly (even though he didn't).  It's miscommunication abound.  You may very well be correct in your assessment above.  I guess I am just sad that it hasn't been shown from her side, her feelings on being apart, moving forward, her frustrations from Sheldon.  We've gotten a big void on Amy's side of things. 

She seemed so in love with Sheldon.  I guess her reaction to the break up is surprising to me.  That's the part I am having problems with.

Oh, I totally agree with your post . Two things:

1) We need to see Amy's point of view like yesterday.

2) If they hadn't shown such miscommunication they wouldn't have been able to have the slit last this long.

Let's keep our fingers crossed. I think that when Amy sees the tape of the documentary she will have the complete picture, and that will get them talking again. I hope they use the opportunity well and show us what Amy has been thinking all this time, and that TPTB also use it to mature the relationship.

Sheldon isn't dating anyone, he asked two woman out and shut the door in the face of someone.
Amy is actually dating ppl and on some dates doing more that just coffee, so...

Sheldon is not dating because the women rejected him, and because he told the girl to go because she was late , but he was actively looking for someone. If not, why did he even ask Howard and Raj to get him someone? The fact that the dates didn't go through simply means he's less efficient than Amy at it. You might want to mostly blame Amy for everything, but in real life (and believable well written fiction) it doesn't work that way. There are 2 people in a relationship, and as such there are 2 people responsible for its success or failure

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Exactly.  

The gang all know that Sheldon is fond of Amy.   The guys see his pain, but they don't know how deep it is.   Is Sheldon just sorry that he lost?   Is he missing a playmate, or slave as Howard would put it, rather than a partner?   Penny and Bernie see it, but everything appears to have been on Sheldon's terms.   He tells Amy he loves her and then scolds her for being in his bedroom.   He admitted his feelings to Bernie at Xmas, but negated it with the need for revenge.    He tells everyone else about Mars except her.   He spends date night complaining about why he is not at some gathering instead of enjoying their meal together.  He tells Penny he is afraid Amy will marry someone better.   Penny may feel sorry for him, but she also knows that he is right.   Amy deserves better than what Sheldon has given her so far.

Amy is their friend, too, and to them it's just not a healthy relationship for her.   Sheldon insults her.   He doesn't touch her.  She's bound by an RA that restricts her freedoms as an individual for fear of offending Sheldon.   Amy loves Sheldon, but she doesn't seem as happy as she likes to let on because he's not taking her feelings into consideration or giving her the commitment and physical intimacy she desires.

Why are the friends going to support a reconciliation on these grounds?   Being in love doesn't make a relationship healthy, neither does it mean a couple should be together if the relationship is neglectful, verbally abusive, or lacking the needs of one or the other.     Sheldon is a good man, and he doesn't mean to do any of these things, but that still doesn't excuse it.   If he is not willing to take responsibility for rectifying the problems he contributes to in the relationship and make it give and take, then his role is really no more than a puppeteer, controlling the actions on the stage.   Why should he be the only one to set the pace of the relationship?   Amy had enough.  I think her original intention was to convince Sheldon to bend the strings, but his unwillingness to do so forced her to cut them all together.   To their friends, she set herself free.

Sheldon needed a wake up call, a reason to want to change his behavior.   All he has been getting up to this point is enabling.  Now he has finally learned that, yes, he won the battle in getting his way many times. However, the long-term consequences are far more significant because the wounds he has inflicted on Amy have become a near fatal blow, and his target seems now unwilling to forgive anymore.  So, now he is raising his white flag in defeat, the war to save the relationship is over.

Up until this point, I have been extremely angry at Amy, but I'm starting to understand better where she is at.   I believe she loves Sheldon, but she knows she's not happy with the way things were, and to reconcile with no evidence that anything is going to change is not to her benefit.   She can't be friends with him because that connection is what caused her to fall in love with him in the first place, and constantly seeing and hearing him makes her relive the pain of trying to get over him.   There is very little physical element there, but the fun things they did together, the FWF, the experiments, the dinners, the tea were just as intimate to her as if they were making love.

It seems Amy is trying to figure things out on her own without the influence of her friends, who she knows are biased and also mixed in their feelings because of their attachments to both of them.   I think she has played it extremely smart, keeping things to herself, dating to fill a void and see if there is something else out there in case she is missing something.   I  think her emotions are going to come spewing out once she and Sheldon get their chance to set matters straight with each other.  

So, with this analysis, the only significance of the ring is that it shows that Sheldon's true feelings and intent to commit to Amy were there all along.   What really needs to happen, though, is not just the presentation of the ring, but some evidence from Sheldon's side that he is going to alter his behavior to be the type of partner Amy needs and that he's going to make her a priority and respect her feelings.   He won't be perfect, by any means, but he can certainly commit to trying because he realizes that her happiness is just as important as his. 

I think Jim alluded to this in his interview, that Sheldon is going to realize that to have Amy, he has to treat her better.  

I hope we get insight from both Amy and Sheldon tonight.  Maybe the friends will have a hand in it, a reconciliation of Shamy and the entire group.

Yes, this freaking post !!!!!! 100,000 times yes. This is exactly it. With the knowledge of the ring she will know (for the first time) Sheldon's true feelings, and it will not make her by itself,just come back to Sheldon, but it will get them to sit down and talk (IMO).

Last thing: I think we ought to watch the episodes first before giving our final opinions. It is amazing how watching Amy yesterday changed a lot of people's minds in regards to her, isn't it?

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I don't think Sheldon is looking for a replacement so much, as thinking he needs one because the other's are encouraging it. Sheldon before Season 4 never needed anyone to fill that role in his life. He was a Homo Novus, or so he thought. While I hate the idea of him trying to move on, I understand why he feels he must. Amy has shunned him at every turn, in light of his horrible remarks to her in 9x1.  It's one thing for him to know Kripke asked her out, but she refused. It's entirely another to see her dating other men, and letting them kiss her. Especially because they have not yet showed one heart to heart of how deeply her feelings ran causing her to break up with him that night on skype. I don't blame Amy. I blame the writer's for thinking 'this' works. To me, as a fan, it doesn't work. It keeps us in the dark, without a clear cut picture of why it took his comment to be the straw that broke the camel's back in asking for a break. I hate what they have become. Hate it. Because even though Sheldon was selfish, dismissive, and reserved in his treatment of Amy, he had made great strides to change. After the sleepover, I was so proud that he'd finally let her in. It's speculation that he would have propsed on their five year anniversary, until he says THAT was the night he was going to do it. So if it was, then WE can see clearly why he would have been distracted, and trying to calm himself down after thier makeout session. He would have a lot riding on that night, and it makes sense he of all people would have said or done something stupid out of fear. I'm not saying his comments were right. But this is Sheldon. So much of what makes him Sheldon is ingrained in him. I often wonder just how much he CAN control when he says stupid things. Whomever is his significant other must accept that about him. I know many parent's of autisitc children who say their kids are bright, intelligent, and sharp. But they live alone in their minds, ruled by their quirks. You can't pick and choose the good parts of someone like Sheldon. You must accept the whole package. Sheldon is missing that 'chip' of decorum. He says what most people think. I'm not saying Amy has to put up with bad behavior, insults, or coming last in his life. Not at all. But she has to make that choice to accept the fact he may not be able to ever change. She deserves a partner to give her everything she deserves. But Sheldon deserves to be loved for who he is, too. Warts and all. Deep down, he would never mean to cause anyone pain, especially not Amy. What I want more than anything is to get these two in the same room and have them be honest about what they truly want. This hostility on Amy's part comes off as shrewish, and this indifference from Sheldon comes off as childish. After five years of making HUGE strides, this whole thing put them back light years. If/when they reconcile, it will never be the same for me. Sometimes, that may be a good thing. Only time will tell, and we are running out of it!!!! One thing is clear to me as a fan, though, and this is totally my opinion: they've changed so much to go back to the way things were. They need a total makeover now, Shamy 3.0. I want passion, fireworks, and respect on both their parts.

Oh, Darcy you certainly pulled on my heartstrings.   

I may be seeing more of Amy's POV after the episode last night, but it doesn't mean that a part of me is still not on board with everything you wrote here.   You are right, Sheldon needs to be loved for who he is, and while I want him to mature, I am afraid that this break up will change him so that he just isn't Sheldon anymore when they reconcile.

I just hope that tonight's TR proves that my giving Amy the benefit of the doubt that she is just hiding her feelings has not been a waste.  

I feel like I've changed sides, but really I'm on both Sheldon and Amy's side.

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Sorry but I think you are missing the point here. Has Amy ever stated that she wanted a " normal boyfriend " ? I can think of at least 2 occurences. And why complaining about " getting a distracted make out session in 5 years ". Would she have only thought, 5 years ago, that she would get a make-out session at all?

She's never happy with what he gives. That's a fact.

I'm not saying that Sheldon doesn't need to show respect and how important she is.

What I'm saying is that Sheldon is not the only one to blame here. And therefore not the only one to improve for the reconciliation.

How can you be so wrong? It makes no sense whatsoever that you would bring up the fact that 5 years ago she couldn't have even expected a make out session. While that might be correct , so what? What does that have to do with anything? They are OBVIOUSLY not the same people they were 5 years ago, now are they? So bringing up that example to try to prove your point that she's never happy with what he gives her is completely irrelevant. Besides while you say that she's never happy with what he gives her, I could just as validly say that he never gives her what she needs, couldn't I?

That's not the point here. The point is that she's right to expect more after 5 years.

I think she's entitled (after 5 years) to want to be a priority in his life. Don't you?.

I also happen to think that she's also entitled (after 5 years) to want to be respected. Don't you?

Lastly, I think that she's entitled (after 5 years) to want to have her feelings be taken into consideration. Don't you?

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But in Wikipedia someone wrote that it would be at November 2. That's even better. Thanks for the info, 10.

November 2 is their second episode for the season.   The premiere was last night and it will repeat this Saturday (Oct 31).   But then next week on the 2nd will be a whole new episode.

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I've had a really bad day of bad luck today so hoping there's gonna be good luck for our shamy tomorrow 

Same. I've just got in from work and I was hoping for a couple hours zzz before the spoilers but don't look like thats gonna happen. Please be some awesome Shamy tonight and make my day better please please please 

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As for Amy's patience, sorry but I ( once again ) strongly disagree. Pushing your boyfriend to hold your hand, hug, have date nights and so on is NOT being patient. It's being pushy.

And to conclude Sheldon would not have come to her in an aggressive way if she had explained more clearly her point of view. I'm not developing, it has already been said over and over by many others.

1) Because asking your boyfriend to hold your hand, hug and have date night are so completely out of line.

2) Of course, it was Amy's fault that Sheldon insulted her. Of course it was totally her fault.

Yeah, right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've never said that the only needs that matters are Sheldon's, I'm saying that many people tend to be on Amy's side because her idea of a relationship is closer to what they experience and that it is unfair because his needs even though they are different matter too.

No, people side more with Amy because she has given more of herself to Sheldon than what Sheldon has given of himself to her. Of course his needs matter too, but if we speak about needs many more of his needs have been met than Amy's so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Edited by Carlos
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Sheldon is not dating because the women rejected him, and because he told the girl to go because she was late , but he was actively looking for someone. If not, why did he even ask Howard and Raj to get him someone? The fact that the dates didn't go through simply means he's less efficient than Amy at it. You might want to mostly blame Amy for everything, but in real life (and believable well written fiction) it doesn't work that way. There are 2 people in a relationship, and as such there are 2 people responsible for its success or failure

 

But in case you don't know this, TBBT is not real life.
If it was, it would look like this:

  • Sheldon would most likely have been fired from Caltech
  • Leonard would be in prison (or death row) for blowing up the elevator and selling military secrets to a North Korean spy
  • Penny would be living in a trailerpark with her drunken hilbilly husband and their four kids.

etc. etc.

I never said Amy is the only one to blame, so yes 2 people are responsible. But that does not mean they are both equal responsible,

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But in case you don't know this, TBBT is not real life.
If it was, it would look like this:

  • Leonard would be in prison (or death row) for blowing up the elevator and selling military secrets to a North Korean spy

Well, if Sheldon was fired from Cal Tech, would Leonard had even there to disable the elevator?    

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But in case you don't know this, TBBT is not real life.
If it was, it would look like this:

  • Sheldon would most likely have been fired from Caltech
  • Leonard would be in prison (or death row) for blowing up the elevator and selling military secrets to a North Korean spy
  • Penny would be living in a trailerpark with her drunken hilbilly husband and their four kids.

etc. etc.

I never said Amy is the only one to blame, so yes 2 people are responsible. But that does not mean they are both equal responsible,

You bolded it so I know you saw it, the "believable, well written fiction" part, right? So don't play coy and address the real issues for once, will you? Don't go off on a tangent nobody cares about.

Also, while trying to make your irrelevant point, try to at least base yourself on what is canon. He was never able to sell military secrets to Joyce Kim because Sheldon interrupted him, and nobody would have know about the elevator, because Sheldon didn't rat him out, so.. what the hell are you even talking about?

Edited by Carlos

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