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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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Okay, I was hesitant to give my thoughts on the premiere. So many others have given very thorough and insightful analyses, and to be honest my mind has been all over the place since we got the news. I feel both optimistic and happy with the opportunities this creates and the intriguing storytelling, but I also feel like I've been repeatedly gut-punched. ShamyShipper was saying how this was the most depressing episode she's ever seen, and I believe her. I know it will be really harrowing for me to watch. I've become so invested in these two character's lives that it's like they're real people to me. That sounds lame, but I'm sure a lot of you can empathize with me, haha.

I really liked Michy's analysis on the taping. I really appreciate everything she's said about Sheldon and Amy's thoughts and emotions, and where they are mentally. I feel like my feelings align very similarly to hers, but I just wanted to give some extra thoughts. I think this breakup is jarring for people because of what a great season we had last year. And it really was almost perfect, Shamy-wise. I don't think anyone could have been much more impressed with how they were written, and how much Sheldon grew and became a better boyfriend.

I feel so conflicted, because on one hand I so want Amy to finally stand her ground against every little mean thing he's ever said, every time she put her own feelings last, every selfless act she's ever committed. On the other hand, I am weary about this break up. Don't get me wrong - I WANT these issues she has with him to be resolved, and I think they will. I WANT her to feel good about this relationship, in every possible and minute way, and I want her to feel secure in her future. But I also don't think Sheldon needs to go through some kind of boyfriend bootcamp or be broken down to millions of tiny pieces to achieve that.

I feel very strongly that their problem right now stems from miscommunication. Miscommunication in the finale because 1) Sheldon didn't realize that his aloofness and fixation on a TV show during the most intimate moment they've had were hurting her feelings and making her feel unwanted. And 2) Amy didn't realize where his mindset was (proposal, engagement, the future - and yes I thoroughly believe he was intending on proposing that night). It's hard to blame either of them for this when the other fails to explicitly say "Hey! You're hurting my feelings and making me feel unwanted." Or "Hey! I DO want you, and I don't understand how you don't see that."

I feel like Amy left that night feeling, once again, rejected. Did Sheldon really do anything that was all that bad, in the grand scheme of things? No, he really didn't. But I think for Amy, every tiny mean or insensitive thing he says is like a snowflake, each one weightless but put altogether enough to cave in a building. Do I think Amy was unhappy in Season 8? I don't. At all. I think she had moments where she felt hurt, but he was always successful in reassuring her. I think she was stuck between feeling genuine happiness and love with Sheldon and feeling like the relationship is inadequate - some part because of outside stimuli telling her her relationship is Sheldon is "different" therefore "wrong," some part from her own unrealistic expectations she's set for him that he just can't meet, and some part from him as he's very capable of being loving and affectionate and kind but also very capable of being selfish and arrogant and sometimes downright cruel.

I never considered what she told Sheldon in the finale an actual breakup. Because it wasn't. It was just Amy needing to clear her head and reevaluate everything. And most likely, had the premiere turned out differently, she would have come to the realization that Sheldon is enough and he is trying. She could have calmly visited him at 4A after a few days, brewed some tea, and have communicated to him like they know how to do so well that she needs him to be more caring to her feelings. He would have pouted a little bit - it's Sheldon - and maybe show a bit of disagreement. But it would have gotten through. I think he would do anything to keep her with him, especially after the scare of realizing that he could so easily lose her.


But sadly, that's not what happened. To be honest, I do think this breakup is partly for ratings and to appeal to those who like a little drama. I'd be lying if I said I didn't fall into that category of enjoying a little bit of drama and angst. Aside from my shipping heart and my affection for both these characters, it will be enjoyable to watch Jim and Mayim show a different acting side. It will also be enjoyable for me to see the depth of their love for each other. I've always believed that you can't tell how much someone loves someone else when everything is all sunshine and happiness. It's when they've been torn to shreds by the other person and hurt immensely that we see how much they truly do love each other. And they do. Sheldon profoundly loves Amy. And Amy profoundly loves Sheldon.

Which brings me to the thing I really wanted to say. Going back to my earlier point where I mentioned that miscommunication is their big issue. Forgive me, I know the organization of this essay is awful, lol. But miscommunication really is the problem in this premiere. Sheldon is panicking and clamoring to see Amy to be reassured that everything is okay. He thinks it is when Amy agrees to walk with him. She feels pressured and overwhelmed and probably a bit devastated by her friends getting married at such a painful time. The last thing she needs right now is for Sheldon to pressure her into being his girlfriend again. He makes an insensitive comment and she snaps and breaks up with him in a moment of anger and seems to second-guess and even possibly regret it immediately after.

Which is why I don't think this break up will be all that long nor serious. I don't think Amy ever wanted or intended to fully break up with him. She just got overwhelmed. But I think the kicker comes in when Penny, probably using her own words more than anything, tells Sheldon he's a bad boyfriend. I don't believe Amy has ever complained to Penny more than the occasional and trivial "Oh, my boyfriend is being a jerk." I don't think she's ever called Sheldon a bad boyfriend, and I don't think  ever believed he is one. Even now.

But here we have Sheldon, believing Amy thinks he's a bad boyfriend and everything he's done in the past year has been not enough. But I don't think Amy believes that. I don't even think she thinks the past year of progress has been inadequate. I just think she's not sure where he stands about their future (ironic), and she's scared to ask because she's afraid of the answer. And you can't blame her for being scared. We know that Sheldon wants to marry her, have kids, and all that good stuff. But from her perspective, this is the guy who, a year ago, ran away after she offered to live with him. This is the guy who, a few months ago, was crying about his best friend leaving him and trying to get him to stay. This is the guy who didn't consider her when he made plans to go to Mars. (It was unintentional and he made up for it, but it still counts.) This is the guy who, during their 5-year anniversary, made a comment about watching a TV show when she hoped his full attention would be on her, and maybe, possibly, their relationship would take the next step. We know Amy yearns for a family, a marriage, children, a lover for life. And as many wonderful things Sheldon has done in the past season that I'm positive she's more than happy about, I don't think she believes that Sheldon wants those things - a marriage, a family, children, a lover in his bed every night, etc.

And it's all very fascinating, because Sheldon DOES want those things!

So that's where we stand. And oh my lanta, this is a long post. I did NOT intend for that. But you know, it happens. I'm anxious to see what happens next. But I did want to express my thoughts and how I can see the sides of both Sheldon and Amy. I love both these characters and their journeys so much. But I just want to say that I am optimistic about the storyline possibilities this creates. I understand where people are coming from in that it's taking such a unique couple and love story and making them do something that has been tirelessly done a million times. I totally get that. But I don't think anything will ever take the uniqueness from them. I think it will be interesting to see how a couple like Shamy handle something like this.

But more than anything, this break up is telling me that the writers are going to address these last few issues the couple has and won't just sweep them under the rug for the final few seasons. They are going to address Sheldon's inability to see his shortcomings through his arrogancy and why some of the things he says are inappropriate and mean. I think they can do this without sacrificing his character. (He will never he a lapdog or a doormat. It's just not in his DNA). And they will also address Amy's (yes, she's not all innocent in this) tendency to set unrealistic expectations for him he can't meet and to realize he CAN and WANTS to give her everything she wants, but in his own unique, might-be-weird-to-everyone-else way.

Okay, I'm really done now. I'm sorry. :p

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Yesterday, as we got the news of the new character, I laughted like for 10 minutes in front of my laptop, I couldn't stop...I found the whole thing a complete non sense, it was so absurd that the only thing to do was laughing, and I was referring just to lenny. I don't think it will ever happen, but if for whatever reason and at any level Sheldon will be involved with this girl, I think I will laugh for a whole month and, after recovering, I will scream to the world that TBBT is the best comedy ever!

Seriously, though, I don't think they will destroy the premises of the show to that point...

Yeah that'd just be ridiculous. 

And to Maddie, that was a really great post. You said your ideas clearly and effectively and I agree with you in pretty much everything.

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THis is the season of break-ups.

Kermit and Miss Piggy

Sheldon and Amy

And if I could figure out how to do a spoiler tag, I'd add another couple... :)

Phanta. I already shouted at you over there, about this post. Do you really want me to shout at you over here too? 

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I responded to this, but somehow my post disappeared.  Anyway, I would be happy to give my impression of episode 2.  It might be the next morning like last time, but I'll definitely share.

Thank you so much :) yes of course, I'm in Scotland anyway so the timing is all different for me :) .

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I really can't see Sheldon recovering from this. If this looks weird and out of the blue to the third person (us) I can't imagine poor  Shelly trying to process in his head what the hell did he do wrong this time to earn a real break up. As a lot of posters said if it happened after a fight, after he left...after anything that actually made sense. He had no idea she was feeling like this, no wonder he was so lost after the scene with Penny.

I know I've been a real Amy supporter, but my heart is breaking for Sheldon this time.

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A possibility I can see is that maybe this break up will bring Amy's mother into an episode. She sets a reluctant Amy up with someone who, on paper, is apparently perfect, and does all the 'normal' stuff on the date, and she hates it. That gets her thinking about what she really wants, and realises that Sheldon is the only one who can give her that.

Maddie, I love your post too - it makes so much sense.

 

Edited by Bella Duveen

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A possibility I can see is that maybe this break up will bring Amy's mother into an episode. She sets a reluctant Amy up with someone who, on paper, is apparently perfect, and does all the 'normal' stuff on the date, and she hates it. That gets her thinking about what she really wants, and realises that Sheldon is the only one who can give her that.

Maddie, I love your post too - it makes so much sense.

 

Ohhh, actually this I could be on board with. Mrs Fowler going "Well, now that you're single again you have to comply with your yearly date obligation. Chop chop, Amy!". Although I don't know if Amy now would be so easily pushed by her mother as she was in the past... But that would be quite funny. Maybe her mom sets her up on a date and at the end of the evening she runs back to Los Robles to get away, even just to hang with Penny and vent and (assuming by this stage she and Sheldon are on somewhat good terms), sees Sheldon doing one of his nerdy things like playing with his train sets and just melts inside.

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Phanta. I already shouted at you over there, about this post. Do you really want me to shout at you over here too? 

LOL!

Sorry, I didn't see it over there.  What's killing me is that the conversations on both boards are so similar--the writers don't know what they're doing, they're ruining everything, I'm not going to watch, I hate ______, etc., etc..

I was excited at first to go over there and read spoilers and all that, but then I couldn't stand all the wild-eyed hair pulling and random out-of-the-blue speculation, based on, like, a handful of 3rd-hand scenes.

So, I come over here, just in time for the taping report and what do I find?  The same hair-pulling and wild speculation (What if Sheldon starts dating Boat Girl and Amy starts dating Stuart or Raj????)  and calling the writers names and saying they're scraping the bottom of the barrel or have run out of ideas.

And apparently Prady killed everyone with the Kermit/Piggy break-up. :)

I just can't take all the wailing and gnashing of teeth anymore.

Edited by phantagrae

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LOL!

Sorry, I didn't see it over there.  What's killing me is that the conversations on both boards are so similar--the writers don't know what they're doing, they're ruining everything, I'm not going to watch, I hate ______, etc., etc..

I was excited at first to go over there and read spoilers and all that, but then I couldn't stand all the wild-eyed hair pulling and random out-of-the-blue speculation, based on, like, a handful of 3rd-hand scenes.

So, I come over here, just in time for the taping report and what do I find?  The same hair-pulling and wild speculation (What if Sheldon starts dating Boat Girl and Amy starts dating Stuart or Raj????)  and calling the writers names and saying they're scraping the bottom of the barrel or have run out of ideas.

And apparently Prady killed everyone with the Kermit/Piggy break-up. :)

I just can't take all the wailing and gnashing of teeth anymore.

Well this doesnt seem exactly uncommon after taping reports. :icon_rolleyes:

All the drama and hysteria that simultaneously entertain and frustrates me...ha-ha 

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Awesome post Maddie!

I still don't know how to feel on this whole situation. It was needed, certainly. And its opening to me nay potentials. Its weird to think that 2 years we were like KISS HER YOU FOOL. 1 Year ago we was. KISS HER AGAIN YOU FOOL AND TELL HER YOU LOVE HER. And now we are like GET BACK TOGETHER SOON PLZ.

My 1 wish is that they don't drag this out to much and for Amy not to give in to easy.

But its still weird. After seeing the episode filmed. It was like watching a different shamy. Our ship is not together right now. I know it well be ok. I dunno.. Its hard to explain.

Another thing to point out. Now that Lenny are married.. and it wasn't a huge wedding. Its possible the shamy wedding when it comes around has potential to be huge. Like a massive thing.. They advent had a big wedding on the show yet. Only small ones.. Would they do that again or go extravagant? An extravagant wedding would suit Sheldon and Amy more for the way they are..

 

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LOL!

Sorry, I didn't see it over there.  What's killing me is that the conversations on both boards are so similar--the writers don't know what they're doing, they're ruining everything, I'm not going to watch, I hate ______, etc., etc..

I was excited at first to go over there and read spoilers and all that, but then I couldn't stand all the wild-eyed hair pulling and random out-of-the-blue speculation, based on, like, a handful of 3rd-hand scenes.

So, I come over here, just in time for the taping report and what do I find?  The same hair-pulling and wild speculation (What if Sheldon starts dating Boat Girl and Amy starts dating Stuart or Raj????)  and calling the writers names and saying they're scraping the bottom of the barrel or have run out of ideas.

And apparently Prady killed everyone with the Kermit/Piggy break-up. :)

I just can't take all the wailing and gnashing of teeth anymore.

I know, that thread moves to fast and was closed two seconds after I posted it! LOL! I was literally saying earlier that I'm having the same convo on two different boards about two different shows. I have actually started a game on Twitter about it! TBBT or TXF! Inspired by Emily or Cinnamon! Although I admit the speculation on there was a bit overboard when we only had a couple of tidbits. I just have huge issues with the wider picture that no amount of scenes is going to make me appreciate, I'm sorry. But I'm not going to go around in circles discussing it like they're doing over there, because I'm frankly done caring. I just pop in here and there with a post about random stuff.

Shamy is another matter for me. I think it's still salvageable, depending on how they play it from here. However, unlike you, I am not sold at all on the fact that this isn't just the same rehashing of the same plots seen thousands of times before. I think there's no way to know for sure just yet, but like I said in another post, it's not like these same events haven't happened before for other shows. Writers run out of ideas/want to milk the ones they have.... Writers write show into the ground. I don't understand why it's seen as wailing and gnashing of teeth or illogical, rather than just plain criticism or justified worries and/or people getting bored. I actually think that, all things considered and compared to "meltdowns" from previous seasons (and even THIS very season, with Intimacy), overall people have taken it rather graciously even if critical. I just feel like it would be much better if we stuck to discussing the actual plot instead of how people should or should not react.  

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A possibility I can see is that maybe this break up will bring Amy's mother into an episode. She sets a reluctant Amy up with someone who, on paper, is apparently perfect, and does all the 'normal' stuff on the date, and she hates it. That gets her thinking about what she really wants, and realises that Sheldon is the only one who can give her that.

 

Ohhh, actually this I could be on board with. Mrs Fowler going "Well, now that you're single again you have to comply with your yearly date obligation. Chop chop, Amy!". Although I don't know if Amy now would be so easily pushed by her mother as she was in the past... But that would be quite funny. Maybe her mom sets her up on a date and at the end of the evening she runs back to Los Robles to get away, even just to hang with Penny and vent and (assuming by this stage she and Sheldon are on somewhat good terms), sees Sheldon doing one of his nerdy things like playing with his train sets and just melts inside.

 OH Oh OH, I think, yes yes yes that's a good way to get out from this dangerous situation !

Potential Saving Scenario :

After a few failed attempts to get her back, Sheldon enters in a depression-like state and tells Amy that he does not understand what's happening but he'll stop annoying her if It's what makes her happy. Then like you two said, the mother introduces her a man with the romance qualities she wanted from Sheldon, turns out she hates it. Then return and see Sheldon doing his nerdy stuff with his sad little puppy face. She just melts inside and go run and hug him (Omc). Then they have a good talk. Amy understands what was her problem (concerning her biased desires) and explains to Sheldon why she broke up with him (he's way of insulting and ignoring her), Sheldon understands (because I'm sure he can't figure this out by himself, and we know Amy explains him things better than anyone else). Then end of story, happy Shamy is back, they start a science project together then #coitusiscoming. OMC perfect !!!

 

Ok I feel much better, I don't know why.

Edited by Redrose

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I know, that thread moves to fast and was closed two seconds after I posted it! LOL! I was literally saying earlier that I'm having the same convo on two different boards about two different shows. I have actually started a game on Twitter about it! TBBT or TXF! Inspired by Emily or Cinnamon! Although I admit the speculation on there was a bit overboard when we only had a couple of tidbits. I just have huge issues with the wider picture that no amount of scenes is going to make me appreciate, I'm sorry. But I'm not going to go around in circles discussing it like they're doing over there, because I'm frankly done caring. I just pop in here and there with a post about random stuff.

Shamy is another matter for me. I think it's still salvageable, depending on how they play it from here. However, unlike you, I am not sold at all on the fact that this isn't just the same rehashing of the same plots seen thousands of times before. I think there's no way to know for sure just yet, but like I said in another post, it's not like these same events haven't happened before for other shows. Writers run out of ideas/want to milk the ones they have.... Writers write show into the ground. I don't understand why it's seen as wailing and gnashing of teeth or illogical, rather than just plain criticism or justified worries and/or people getting bored. I actually think that, all things considered and compared to "meltdowns" from previous seasons (and even THIS very season, with Intimacy), overall people have taken it rather graciously even if critical. I just feel like it would be much better if we stuck to discussing the actual plot instead of how people should or should not react.  

Well, I guess what I'm responding to is the wild speculatons that get bigger and bigger, even if there's nothing to support them.  And the accusations that the writers (on both shows) must really hate the characters or the fans and that's why they're going down this or that path.

I don't care if someone hates or loves a particular plot, but all the "the writers just s___ all over the characters" or "the writers hate ____" or whatever just gets tiresome, especially when everyone's looking at one moment or one episode or whatever.

Over there's it's Scully and Tad, or Mulder and Sveta, while over here it's Sheldon and the Boat Girl, or Amy and Raj, or whatever people can come up with that's outrageous and controversial so that they can wallow in the horror of it all.

I have to wonder what's going on in the Muppet fandom...

The thing I think of when people start talking about how this show or that show has done this kind of story or that kind of story, and how it's a cliche to break up a couple and put them back together again, is the fact that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to people and the ups and downs we go through in relationships.  Every couple may have their own flavor when it comes to how they negotiate such things, but all these emotions and experiences have existed since the Greeks put on their masks and got up on stage, or since storytelling began.

What about Shakespeare?  Those stories are hundreds of years old, but the emotions and relationships still ring true becasue they're about the human condition.

So, to me, there's no reason to say the writers have run out of ideas or that the Lenny and Shamy ships are doomed or whatever, or to come up with the wildest speculation, as if to underscore to oneself how bad it's all going to be.  That's what I mean by hair-pulling and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

This is ONE episode of 24 for the season and they've only just begun to tell this particular story.  The fact that the relationships are deep enough now to handle such stories and to stretch them over more than one episode, is, to me, a good thing.  Zazzy lasted one episode, involved 25 cats and SHeldon's mother's intervention.

Now there's enough depth to plumb the emotions for at least 3 episodes (counting from the S8 finale) and I think that's a good thing, not a cause for concern, or accusations of creative bankruptcy.

IMO.

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 OH Oh OH, I think, yes yes yes that's a good way to get out from this dangerous situation !

Potential Saving Scenario :

After a few failed attempts to get her back, Sheldon enters in a depression-like state and tells Amy that he does not understand what's happening but he'll stop annoying her if It's what makes her happy. Then like you two said, the mother introduces her a man with the romance qualities she wanted from Sheldon, turns out she hates it. Then return and see Sheldon doing his nerdy stuff with his sad little puppy face. She just melts inside and go run and hug him (Omc). Then they have a good talk. Amy understands what was her problem (concerning her biased desires) and explain Sheldon why she broke up with him (he's way of insulting and ignoring her), Sheldon understands (because I'm sure he can't figure this out by himself, and we know Amy explains him things better than anyone else). Then end of story, happy Shamy is back, they start a science project together then #coitusiscoming. OMC perfect !!!

 

Ok I feel much better, I don't know why.

I would love if she just asked if she can join him, and sat down next to him, watching him do his thing, before she tears up and just grabs him in a hug.... Sigh.

LOL since we are talking scenarios (that sadly are unlikely to ever come true), I had this idea mulling around in my head all day today about whether Amy might find out about the ring accidentally and how that might happen. I was thinking, what if Penny and Amy are at Penny's getting drunk to drown their sorrows and vent and decide to be mischievous and head over to 4A when Leonard and Sheldon are out to cause (reasonable) mayhem to get back at their men. And they're messing around and Penny is all engrossed in whatever she's doing (maybe she's scribbling all over their whiteboards and messing up their equations) and wants Amy to join in but Amy suddenly goes quiet. Penny is like "What's going on?" and she turns around and sees Amy standing there with the ring in her hand, all teary eyed. Then Penny realizes and freaks out, as she does, rips the ring out of her hand squealing and drunkenly falls on her knees in front of her. And Leonard opens the door at that and finds Penny kneeling in front of a tearful Amy with an engagement ring in her hand. Cue awkward silence.

So yeah... that was my unreasonable scenario of the day. LOL!

 

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Maddie...totally love your post and agree...both have issues and both are bringing their "baggage" to the table and need to resolve through communication.

Now one thing that occurred to me last night is how the last scene with Amy ended, where she was questioning whether she did the right thing.  She was rash in doing a full break-up and perhaps that could lead to her going back to him and apologizing to him for her blow-up and leading to them carrying on a conversation, leading to communicating their stances.  Perhaps she agrees to them being a couple on a trial basis and gives him a certain timeframe to help prove his commitment to her through his own devices.  Sheldon could then ask her to be more realistic and understand he is wanting a future with her, maybe even tell her what his plans had been, but that she needs to work with him and allow him to change at his speed as well.   They could then agree upon a timeframe that works for both for the trial period.  It might be a way the writers could resolve this in not very many episodes, yet still accomplish the growth and change from both.  

If Sheldon gets involved with another girl,I'll throw a tantrum...Seriously,I can't even imagine it.

I don't want either of them involved with another person at this point.  I think they are having a serious miscommunication problem like Maddie said, but that if given the chance to calm down and talk things through...they will be able to work through this together instead of needing others to influence their decisions and feelings.

Edited by stardustmelody

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If Sheldon gets involved with another girl,I'll throw a tantrum...Seriously,I can't even imagine it.

He mentioned dating that Mandy girl who Leonard kissed.. But only to get back to Amy. He also said it was farfetched.

It sounds like he is in a phase of grief were one is angry and seeking any type of revenge. Which is telling us he is really really hurting.

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Maddie...totally love your post and agree...both have issues and both are bringing their "baggage" to the table and need to resolve through communication.

Now one thing that occurred to me last night is how the last scene with Amy ended, where she was questioning whether she did the right thing.  She was rash in doing a full break-up and perhaps that could lead to her going back to him and apologizing to him for her blow-up and leading to them carrying on a conversation.  Perhaps she agrees to them being a couple on a trial basis and gives him a certain timeframe to help prove his commitment to her through his own devices.  Sheldon could then ask her to be more realistic and understand he is wanting a future with her, maybe even tell her what his plans had been, but that she needs to work with him and allow him to change at his speed as well.   They could then agree upon a timeframe that works for both for the trial period.  It might be a way the writers could resolve this yet still accomplish the growth and change from both.  

I think she was rash, but while she want to quickly apologise I suspect the rest of the gang will be urging her not to give in so easily and that in turn will make her even more miserable and confused.

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Well, I guess what I'm responding to is the wild speculatons that get bigger and bigger, even if there's nothing to support them.  And the accusations that the writers (on both shows) must really hate the characters or the fans and that's why they're going down this or that path.

I don't care if someone hates or loves a particular plot, but all the "the writers just s___ all over the characters" or "the writers hate ____" or whatever just gets tiresome, especially when everyone's looking at one moment or one episode or whatever.

Over there's it's Scully and Tad, or Mulder and Sveta, while over here it's Sheldon and the Boat Girl, or Amy and Raj, or whatever people can come up with that's outrageous and controversial so that they can wallow in the horror of it all.

I have to wonder what's going on in the Muppet fandom...

The thing I think of when people start talking about how this show or that show has done this kind of story or that kind of story, and how it's a cliche to break up a couple and put them back together again, is the fact that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to people and the ups and downs we go through in relationships.  Every couple may have their own flavor when it comes to how they negotiate such things, but all these emotions and experiences have existed since the Greeks put on their masks and got up on stage, or since storytelling began.

What about Shakespeare?  Those stories are hundreds of years old, but the emotions and relationships still ring true becasue they're about the human condition.

So, to me, there's no reason to say the writers have run out of ideas or that the Lenny and Shamy ships are doomed or whatever, or to come up with the wildest speculation, as if to underscore to oneself how bad it's all going to be.  That's what I mean by hair-pulling and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

This is ONE episode of 24 for the season and they've only just begun to tell this particular story.  The fact that the relationships are deep enough now to handle such stories and to stretch them over more than one episode, is, to me, a good thing.  Zazzy lasted one episode, involved 25 cats and SHeldon's mother's intervention.

Now there's enough depth to plumb the emotions for at least 3 episodes (counting from the S8 finale) and I think that's a good thing, not a cause for concern, or accusations of creative bankruptcy.

IMO.

I don't know, I think while we cannot make up new patterns of human behavior out of thin air, I also find it that it is extremely unimaginative to use the same ONE over and over again. Life is way more varied than the one type of on/off/on-again relationship that Hollywood keeps shoving down our throats. And there isn't just one single way to write a relationship. And, like I've said many times now, those types of relationships don't even exist in real life and I think it's a cop out to claim they do just to give some kind of credit to a Hollywood trope. There are tons of different ways to write a relationship and keep it interesting without resorting to romantic drama and I would like to see writers TRY harder than what they are. Not just these writers, writers in general. They are meant to be the most creative people and yet they always end up with the same one plot device. I always admired how Friday Night Lights wrote the Taylors: they were sassy, strong, interesting, had great personalities and their dynamic was just exquisite throughout the run of the show without having to resort to any relationship drama whatsoever. Monica and Chandler on Friends stayed together and for many people ended up eclipsing Ross and Rachel. I think wow is more versed in literature than I am, and she made some excellent points earlier about how in great literature either the quest was for the characters to fight through adversity to get together in the end permanently, or they were cautionary tales about how bad relationships. 

Also, I know this is a personal preference but, IMO, a major appeal of Shamy to me was their solidity. The fact that no matter what issue was thrown at them, they could work through it and stick together. It's so rare these days to see Hollywood send a message about a relationship that lasts and endures all difficulties, to the point that, apparently, people now think breakups are just part of the normal journey of a couple towards happiness. To be honest with you, yes, even freaking Kermit and Miss Piggy breaking up pissed me off! And I don't even watch the Muppets! I'm just tired of all these breakups every where, I don't find them realistic or poignant or interesting. I find them manipulative, dishonest, unrealistic and unoriginal. 

Now, I agree with you. It's still soon to say how this is going to play out with Shamy. It is still possible that this actually won't play out as a breakup at all, but rather just a REALLY rough patch that they need to get through. And that's fine with me. It's the concept of the "breakup" in and of itself that I have a massive issue with from a purely creative POV. And it doesn't matter if it's Mulder and Scully, Shamy, Kermit and Piggy, Leonard and Penny or Bill and Molaro. It just angers me more when there doesn't seem to be ONE solid couple standing in all of Hollywood's story telling these days. That they don't seem capable to send one message of people sticking together through adversity. It just resonates more to me and angers me more when it's even historical couples that get thrown into the pile of the "on/off/on-again" relationships, which all these three you mention fall into.

And Bill and Steve, of course. Dammit even he couldn't stick around and had to leave Steve for the Muppets!!!

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Maddie...totally love your post and agree...both have issues and both are bringing their "baggage" to the table and need to resolve through communication.

Now one thing that occurred to me last night is how the last scene with Amy ended, where she was questioning whether she did the right thing.  She was rash in doing a full break-up and perhaps that could lead to her going back to him and apologizing to him for her blow-up and leading to them carrying on a conversation, leading to communicating their stances.  Perhaps she agrees to them being a couple on a trial basis and gives him a certain timeframe to help prove his commitment to her through his own devices.  Sheldon could then ask her to be more realistic and understand he is wanting a future with her, maybe even tell her what his plans had been, but that she needs to work with him and allow him to change at his speed as well.   They could then agree upon a timeframe that works for both for the trial period.  It might be a way the writers could resolve this yet still accomplish the growth and change from both.  

I don't want either of them involved with another person at this point.  I think they are having a serious miscommunication problem like Maddie said, but that if given the chance to calm down and talk things through...they will be able to work through this together instead of needing others to influence their decisions and feelings.

Yes this works so well :)

thank you !

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I don't know, I think while we cannot make up new patterns of human behavior out of thin air, I also find it that it is extremely unimaginative to use the same ONE over and over again. Life is way more varied than the one type of on/off/on-again relationship that Hollywood keeps shoving down our throats. And there isn't just one single way to write a relationship. And, like I've said many times now, those types of relationships don't even exist in real life and I think it's a cop out to claim they do just to give some kind of credit to a Hollywood trope. There are tons of different ways to write a relationship and keep it interesting without resorting to romantic drama and I would like to see writers TRY harder than what they are. Not just these writers, writers in general. They are meant to be the most creative people and yet they always end up with the same one plot device. I always admired how Friday Night Lights wrote the Taylors: they were sassy, strong, interesting, had great personalities and their dynamic was just exquisite throughout the run of the show without having to resort to any relationship drama whatsoever. Monica and Chandler on Friends stayed together and for many people ended up eclipsing Ross and Rachel. I think wow is more versed in literature than I am, and she made some excellent points earlier about how in great literature either the quest was for the characters to fight through adversity to get together in the end permanently, or they were cautionary tales about how bad relationships. 

Also, I know this is a personal preference but, IMO, a major appeal of Shamy to me was their solidity. The fact that no matter what issue was thrown at them, they could work through it and stick together. It's so rare these days to see Hollywood send a message about a relationship that lasts and endures all difficulties, to the point that, apparently, people now think breakups are just part of the normal journey of a couple towards happiness. To be honest with you, yes, even freaking Kermit and Miss Piggy breaking up pissed me off! And I don't even watch the Muppets! I'm just tired of all these breakups every where, I don't find them realistic or poignant or interesting. I find them manipulative, dishonest, unrealistic and unoriginal. 

Now, I agree with you. It's still soon to say how this is going to play out with Shamy. It is still possible that this actually won't play out as a breakup at all, but rather just a REALLY rough patch that they need to get through. And that's fine with me. It's the concept of the "breakup" in and of itself that I have a massive issue with from a purely creative POV. And it doesn't matter if it's Mulder and Scully, Shamy, Kermit and Piggy, Leonard and Penny or Bill and Molaro. It just angers me more when there doesn't seem to be ONE solid couple standing in all of Hollywood's story telling these days. That they don't seem capable to send one message of people sticking together through adversity. It just resonates more to me and angers me more when it's even historical couples that get thrown into the pile of the "on/off/on-again" relationships, which all these three you mention fall into.

And Bill and Steve, of course. Dammit even he couldn't stick around and had to leave Steve for the Muppets!!!

Bravo!  I totally agree!  Well put!

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