Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9

[wowbagger]

But in all seriousness, it really feels as though all the agita and anxiety and lashing out that we were seeing before was from the writers almost, not even Sheldon. And once they made up their minds, took a deep breath and stepped off the precipice, they (like Sheldon) will likely find that they enjoyed that more than they thought they would. I hope that, now they have gotten over their tiresome fixation with pitting the man and the woman in a relationship against each other (which, yay! It really seems they have!), the writers will return to, as koops says, the core of what we loved about the ShAmy. Bring on the ShAmy giving poor Leonard something to think about every time he walks through the door! Bring on blanket fort sleepovers and fun with flags and pitilessly abstruse thought experiments! Bring on Sheldon and Amy being insufferably lofty about their ideal coital schedule, which they will almost certainly fail to stick to! Bring on even Sheldon and Amy succeeding in sticking to the routine because they have both gotten sidetracked by a project, whether work, a TV show they both love (Inspector Spacetime, anyone? Guess not since Doctor Who is already mentioned), or some insane arcane middle ages amalgam of chess, fencing and etymology! Whatever, so long as they are on the same page and happy!

Edited December 7, 2015 by wowbagger

[camelliayao]

Although I absolutely love the old school Shamy, I don't want them to go back exactly the same. Because in my opinion, in the past sometimes Sheldon's behavior when he's with Amy really doesn't look like someone who's in love. I want to see more the the aquarium kind of Shamy, where they still do weird stuff together but interact with lots of adoration. Like when Sheldon called her silly or just Sheldon speaking in a softer tone when he's with Amy. 

[Amy Fowler]

59 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

 

Yes! #PAmyHQ, #SomethingAboutShamyWithAnAudience, #ReunificationEpisodeOfFWF,#ShAmyWillComeUpWithANewLanguageOfLove#IDon'tGetHashtagsClearly.

This is brilliant 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Although I absolutely love the old school Shamy, I don't want them to go back exactly the same. Because in my opinion, in the past sometimes Sheldon's behavior when he's with Amy really doesn't look like someone who's in love. I want to see more the the aquarium kind of Shamy, where they still do weird stuff together but interact with lots of adoration. Like when Sheldon called her silly or just Sheldon speaking in a softer tone when he's with Amy. 

I would have to agree with you there.  I know as much as some thought the break up was unnecessary, if you do look at some of the past episodes pre-breakup, Sheldon often to me seemed like a horrible person with Amy at times, probably because he didn't know how to handle a relationship.  But this breakup seems to have changed him with her in terms of his behaviour towards her and as you say they can do silly stuff or continue to be the awkward couple but in a good way.

6 hours ago, MJistheBOMB said:

If the forum breaks, y'all know where to go. LOL!!!

I'm laughing out loud because that's how any of our reactions would be. Shame over star gazing, damn it! Haha.

Yeah, would be a shame.  LOL!  Actually, according to the forecast for our area, it's supposed to be cloudy.  The Shamy gods are conspiring!

[koops]

To me it depends on what version of Shamy you look at. Proper old school Shamy were not pitted against each other, they had this blend of quirky adoration and cameraderie that is exactly what we saw in the aquarium "date". They didn't really started to get pitted against each other hard until S6, where the writers suddenly pushed down the gas on Amy wanting traditional romance and Sheldon dragging his feet. But, to me, the essence of the pairing and what sets them apart is that quirky adoration and camaraderie from times past (and last season too, quite often), that got lost along the way and made Sheldon come across as more of a jerk than he actually needs to be. What I mean is that now that the writers have gotten over the physical intimacy/romance hurdle that they used to pit them up against each other in an unpleasant manner (IMO), they can hopefully put the nerds back in the Shamy and give them lots of fun plots to do with that, instead of writing episodes where Sheldon tries to get out of Date Night obligations and Amy rolls her eyes exasperated and whines that she's not getting the romance she wants. That crap is behind us now, I would hope.

[ShLe94]

4 hours ago, koops said:

I wouldn't want their loss of virginity to go completely ignored because it's something too huge to be swept aside so quickly and I would like to know how the gang finds out. But I honestly more than anything miss them nerding out together so much, that I wouldn't want to see them do anything else but that for a while. Just have cute little B plots where Amy comes up with a new language, they shoot FWF, run some social experiments on their friends, find some new hobby to share together. 9x09 was so huge for me because it seemed like the writers, not just Amy, remembered what is ultimately the essence of this couple that sets them apart from the others, and now that they've put all the hurdles of physical intimacy (and the breakup) behind them and "wrapped up that journey", to use Molaro's words, it would be great to see them relax and spend more time together in the background of other major plots, being cutesy. Oh, and I might be weird, but I'm actually dying to see Penny and Amy have breakfast in their PJs at 4A probably more than Shamy. LOL! 

Let the other characters have major screentime for a bit, there's a lot to work out there.

You should really write for TBBT, koops! In a few lines you've already found the balance next episodes should have as far as both Shamy and the whole show are concerned! 

And, of course, a big YES to more Pamy and Super Pals - the Penny, Amy, Leonard and Sheldon foursome!!! 

[wowbagger]

When I think of 'old school' ShAmy, I think of Sheldon giggling over amy's texts, the two of them gravely complimenting each other on the excellence of their wit, 'breaking up' over an argument over the respective merits of their disciplines, counterfactuals and fun with flags. I think of the gang gaping in confusion at what looks like a torrid, whirlwind love affair-of the mind. I think of the Av club's rapturous enjoyment of Sheldon and amy's 'own demented version of foreplay'. And I think that it was obvious that they were giddily, head over heels in love before the show decided to ruin everything by playing them off against each other, instead of speaking their own language (emotional and intellectual) to the horror and secret delight of muggles everywhere.

[Flaky]

18 hours ago, MJistheBOMB said:

I can't wait for their ILYs to each other! I may cry. 

These episodes are full of amazing gifts (and gifs. LOL.). Couldn't be any more perfect.

There's still another kiss in the tag scene for 9x10 we haven't seen on the promos yet.  After seeing the other two I just might faint!  

[koops]

18 minutes ago, ShLe94 said:

You should really write for TBBT, koops! In a few lines you've already found the balance next episodes should have as far as both Shamy and the whole show are concerned! 

And, of course, a big YES to more Pamy and Super Pals - the Penny, Amy, Leonard and Sheldon foursome!!! 

If I were writing for the show we would have 24 episodes about Shamy working together and nothing else. 

[tmp]

I can't keep sitting here watching the promo over and over again.  I gots work to do.  

[YlvaBorealis89]

I too enjoy their partnership immensely and would love nothing more than for them to return to their mutual adoration of each other's quirks. One of my favorite Shamy moments is when Sheldon starts lecturing the group about the meaning of pontification and Amy hangs on to every word that comes out of his mouth like "isn't he just a DELIGHT?". There's always a lot of talk about Sheldon's quirks but fact is that Amy sometimes out-weirds (I just made that word up) Sheldon - like when she suggested they play Real Life Operation with a corpse at the morgue and Sheldon is like "Yeah that's creepy, even for you".

The core of their love for each other is their respective admiration for the other's (to the muggles) less-than-admirable qualities. This is what makes their partnership so strong: they appreciate each other for who they really are. They don't have to be ashamed or feel like they have to change when in each other's company: Amy can bring a cup of mad cow's disease to the lunch table and Sheldon can go on and on about vexillology and it makes them love each other more.

Now gimme their first FWF as a married couple and I'll be one happy fangirl.

Edited December 7, 2015 by YlvaBorealis89

[koops]

15 minutes ago, YlvaBorealis89 said:

I too enjoy their partnership immensely and would love nothing more than for them to return to their mutual adoration of each other's quirks. One of my favorite Shamy moments is when Sheldon starts lecturing the group about the meaning of pontification and Amy hangs on to every word that comes out of his mouth like "isn't he just a DELIGHT?". There's always a lot of talk about Sheldon's quirks but fact is that Amy sometimes out-weirds (I just made that word up) Sheldon - like when she suggested they play Real Life Operation with a corpse at the morgue and Sheldon is like "Yeah that's creepy, even for you".

The core of their love for each other is their respective admiration for the other's (to the muggles) less-than-admirable qualities. This is what makes their partnership so strong: they appreciate each other for who they really are. They don't have to be ashamed or feel like they have to change when in each other's company: Amy can bring a cup of mad cow's disease to the lunch table and Sheldon can go on and on about vexillology and it makes them love each other more.

Now gimme their first FWF as a married couple and I'll be one happy fangirl.

YEEEEEEESSSSSSSS! Had to requote for emphasis because liking wasn't enough.

eta: And I had to go dig out visual depiction of that scene because it's one of my favorite Shamy moments of S8: http://thebigbangtheorists.tumblr.com/post/112227298968

Edited December 7, 2015 by koops

[RoX]

5 hours ago, koops said:

I wouldn't want their loss of virginity to go completely ignored because it's something too huge to be swept aside so quickly and I would like to know how the gang finds out. But I honestly more than anything miss them nerding out together so much, that I wouldn't want to see them do anything else but that for a while. Just have cute little B plots where Amy comes up with a new language, they shoot FWF, run some social experiments on their friends, find some new hobby to share together. 9x09 was so huge for me because it seemed like the writers, not just Amy, remembered what is ultimately the essence of this couple that sets them apart from the others, and now that they've put all the hurdles of physical intimacy (and the breakup) behind them and "wrapped up that journey", to use Molaro's words, it would be great to see them relax and spend more time together in the background of other major plots, being cutesy. Oh, and I might be weird, but I'm actually dying to see Penny and Amy have breakfast in their PJs at 4A probably more than Shamy. LOL! 

Let the other characters have major screentime for a bit, there's a lot to work out there.

I want them to do more episodes of FWF! I love FWF!!  When I read your comment, I remembered this episode:

It would be great if they make some kind of joke like this one, now that they are back together, like Sheldon not needing his right hand anymore 

Edited December 7, 2015 by RoX

[koops]

YES! I've been saying for a while they should do one about countries that re-united. Like Germany after the Cold War. And then they could start arguing over which one of the two of them is West and East Germany. LOL!

[YlvaBorealis89]

42 minutes ago, koops said:

YEEEEEEESSSSSSSS! Had to requote for emphasis because liking wasn't enough.

eta: And I had to go dig out visual depiction of that scene because it's one of my favorite Shamy moments of S8: http://thebigbangtheorists.tumblr.com/post/112227298968

I seriously can't like that moment enough. I love their mutual giggle at the end, they're so in sync here. Whenever I write fanfiction I always have to stop and remind myself to add a little romance because otherwise it would just be the Shamy doing weird stuff together   

[wowbagger]

3 minutes ago, YlvaBorealis89 said:

I seriously can't like that moment enough. I love their mutual giggle at the end, they're so in sync here. Whenever I write fanfiction I always have to stop and remind myself to add a little romance because otherwise it would just be the Shamy doing weird stuff together   

but that IS romance for the ShAmy.

[Boonaroma]

1 hour ago, koops said:

To me it depends on what version of Shamy you look at. Proper old school Shamy were not pitted against each other, they had this blend of quirky adoration and cameraderie that is exactly what we saw in the aquarium "date". They didn't really started to get pitted against each other hard until S6, where the writers suddenly pushed down the gas on Amy wanting traditional romance and Sheldon dragging his feet. But, to me, the essence of the pairing and what sets them apart is that quirky adoration and camaraderie from times past (and last season too, quite often), that got lost along the way and made Sheldon come across as more of a jerk than he actually needs to be. What I mean is that now that the writers have gotten over the physical intimacy/romance hurdle that they used to pit them up against each other in an unpleasant manner (IMO), they can hopefully put the nerds back in the Shamy and give them lots of fun plots to do with that, instead of writing episodes where Sheldon tries to get out of Date Night obligations and Amy rolls her eyes exasperated and whines that she's not getting the romance she wants. That crap is behind us now, I would hope.

I really agree with you,  what has bothered me about the last few seasons (even season eight) was that imbalance.  It made sense that sheltered, inexperienced Amy would come to want something akin to traditional romance as she came out of her shell and came to realize it was possible for her.  What didn't ever rub me the right way was how Mr. Social Convention Sheldon, stubbornly and sometimes spitefully refused to accommodate her.  He knew what she wanted, he just didn't care enough to oblige her.  It was particularly grating because, aside from sex, the things she wanted from him were so pitifully small.  A few compliments, his company, and some small gestures of affection were all she wanted.  He had been doing all that before she fell head over heels for him, and then as soon as she softened up, he quit almost entirely.  

[YlvaBorealis89]

7 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

but that IS romance for the ShAmy.

Oh, you are right as always wowbagger, let me rephrase that then *clears throat*: I have to remind myself to add a little traditional  romance.  

[birdy]

2 hours ago, koops said:

YEEEEEEESSSSSSSS! Had to requote for emphasis because liking wasn't enough.

eta: And I had to go dig out visual depiction of that scene because it's one of my favorite Shamy moments of S8: http://thebigbangtheorists.tumblr.com/post/112227298968

Oh God how much I love that scene! It's pure Shamy.

I do agree with you guys that next we need some classic Shamy cuteness, but with a little something that shows that their relationship has improved due the break up. What I don't want to see is frustrated Amy (occasional eye rolling with a loving smile is totally fine) and indifferent Sheldon. Imo this break up had a greater purpose and it wasn't created just for the drama. They had some issues in their relationship: Amy wanting more traditional kind of romance and trying to change him, Sheldon not putting Amy first and having commitment issues, the lack of physical intimacy (which would've been fine if that's what they both wanted). Now it seems like the writers managed to handle all these issues during this season. Both of them really learned the value of each other and their relationship during the break up. That's why I don't see them taking steps back now.

And when it comes to coitus, I'm really fine with however they'll fit it into their relationship, as long as they are on the same page with it. Once a year, once a week, everyday, scheduled, not scheduled, I'll take it all if both of them are fine with the arrangements. Although I really like the idea presented here that they'll try to schedule it but fail terribly!

They are always going to be a little awkward and quirky and I don't want that to change. They are still going to make mistakes and argue like any other couple. Sheldon will always be Sheldon and Amy has her own quirks as well. What I do think they learned from this break up is that they only want to be with each other, not alone nor with anyone else. They will work trough anything that comes along, because they never want to lose one another again. Once was more than enough. 

What I'm really trying to say is that I think (and hope) we'll see more of "Sheldon and Amy against the world"  than "Sheldon and Amy against each other" from now on. And that's how it's supposed to be.

Edited December 7, 2015 by bluebird

[jlove]

1 hour ago, Flaky said:

There's still another kiss in the tag scene for 9x10 we haven't seen on the promos yet.  After seeing the other two I just might faint!  

Better - the 2nd kiss is longer...much longer (in fact the kiss in the tag is the same kiss).  Once her arm gets around his neck I NEED to see them settle into that hot kiss.  3 days, 3 days, 3 days, I can do this...

[koops]

27 minutes ago, Boonaroma said:

I really agree with you,  what has bothered me about the last few seasons (even season eight) was that imbalance.  It made sense that sheltered, inexperienced Amy would come to want something akin to traditional romance as she came out of her shell and came to realize it was possible for her.  What didn't ever rub me the right way was how Mr. Social Convention Sheldon, stubbornly and sometimes spitefully refused to accommodate her.  He knew what she wanted, he just didn't care enough to oblige her.  It was particularly grating because, aside from sex, the things she wanted from him were so pitifully small.  A few compliments, his company, and some small gestures of affection were all she wanted.  He had been doing all that before she fell head over heels for him, and then as soon as she softened up, he quit almost entirely.  

I wouldn't say Sheldon just refused to accommodate her, out of spite especially. Yes, he was a bit of a pain in the neck sometimes, and undoubtedly self-centered, but I think it's unfair to say he didn't care at all, because he often did include things in his routine and relationship that he would have never intentionally come up with, and that was from early on. He put on suits to go on fancy dates, they added several things to the RA that were mentioned through the years that were most likely Amy's idea than his (like the sing-alongs, the anniversary protocol, the pet names, etc.). And the fact that the RA itself is something Amy has a say in means a lot, because he doesn't allow that kind of power to Leonard in their Roommate Agreement. I think the writers went rather heavy handed both on Amy wanting so much traditional romance all at once (that was literally an overnight addition from the S5 finale to the S6 premiere - it was the time I started watching the show live because I got hooked on Amy/Shamy and I was so confused by that premiere, it was like I was watching a different couple!) and on Sheldon suddenly playing aloof and disinterested, whereas before he was swooning at everything that came out of her mouth, and putting the two together made the whole thing come across as very unbalanced. I missed Sheldon swooning and adoring her the way he used to earlier on, rather than taking her for granted and dismissing her, but I also missed Amy finding him the best boyfriend ever and loving his quirks as often as she used to early on instead of rolling her eyes and complaining about all the things he did not do right. 

But I think in a sense, just as it makes sense for Amy to be exposed to all these new things and wanting to try them, I think it makes sense for Sheldon to kick back against stuff that he feels he's being pushed into, which is why he might have become more resistant later on as opposed to when she wasn't expecting anything from him and so he was being a good boyfriend to her without even trying. It kind of ties in with what I said earlier this week: the aquarium ep to me showed that Amy realized that what really matters for her happiness is not so much the romance but to have that connection she only has with Sheldon and that when she doesn't push him to do or say what she expects him to do or say, he does so on his own; and the earworm ep showed that Sheldon realized that some of that hippy dippy romance stuff that Amy started wanting from him and he eschewed in the past were actually things he missed and wanted back and that's what made him decide that being platonic friends wasn't enough for him and he wanted her back. I really think the Trilogy wrapped things up in a satisfactory way that patched up all those issues, and I hope that it wasn't just the characters realizing all this, but the writers too. Now that they've gone through all these experiences, I hope they can take the best of both worlds (nerdy and affectionate) and leave the rest behind.

[camelliayao]

2 hours ago, koops said:

To me it depends on what version of Shamy you look at. Proper old school Shamy were not pitted against each other, they had this blend of quirky adoration and cameraderie that is exactly what we saw in the aquarium "date". They didn't really started to get pitted against each other hard until S6, where the writers suddenly pushed down the gas on Amy wanting traditional romance and Sheldon dragging his feet. But, to me, the essence of the pairing and what sets them apart is that quirky adoration and camaraderie from times past (and last season too, quite often), that got lost along the way and made Sheldon come across as more of a jerk than he actually needs to be. What I mean is that now that the writers have gotten over the physical intimacy/romance hurdle that they used to pit them up against each other in an unpleasant manner (IMO), they can hopefully put the nerds back in the Shamy and give them lots of fun plots to do with that, instead of writing episodes where Sheldon tries to get out of Date Night obligations and Amy rolls her eyes exasperated and whines that she's not getting the romance she wants. That crap is behind us now, I would hope.

While I agree with most parts of your post, I do think it's necessary that they alter Amy's behavior to make her want romance and more intimacy with Sheldon. And it's natural. That's just people who fall more and more in love do. They want more from their partners.

One of the reasons that the old school Shamy can get along very well without all the "crap" is because they were really just friends back then (even after they were officially a couple there was a long time that they still behavior like friends)  As friends there's no need to develop more other than admiration towards one another. But they can't always be friends, at least I don't want them to. If it wasn't because of Amy's behavior change, their relationship probably would never go anywhere. That's why I like Shamy in season 8 more. Like in the fort episode, they do weird stuff together, and I can tell they love each other very easily. 

Yes we don't need to see them act like a normal couple. But this break up is supposed to make them change, especially Sheldon. He can't just have his eiphany in two episodes and then "since we've gotten over with the intimacy part, let's go back to normal". If that happens, this break up is truly a waste of time. So now will they still only kiss on date nights? How about the relationship agreement? Is she still a little afraid to touch him because he doesn't like that? 

And to those old school Shamy moments where they interact like they're nothing more than friends, No, thank you. I don't want them back. Or at least I want a 2.0 version of them. If I want to see friendship, I'll go see Leonard and Sheldon. I want my Shamy to finally be like a weird "couple" and I want see their love in every moment they're together. Not two weird friends who once in a season express their love.

Edited December 7, 2015 by camelliayao

[camelliayao]

38 minutes ago, Boonaroma said:

I really agree with you,  what has bothered me about the last few seasons (even season eight) was that imbalance.  It made sense that sheltered, inexperienced Amy would come to want something akin to traditional romance as she came out of her shell and came to realize it was possible for her.  What didn't ever rub me the right way was how Mr. Social Convention Sheldon, stubbornly and sometimes spitefully refused to accommodate her.  He knew what she wanted, he just didn't care enough to oblige her.  It was particularly grating because, aside from sex, the things she wanted from him were so pitifully small.  A few compliments, his company, and some small gestures of affection were all she wanted.  He had been doing all that before she fell head over heels for him, and then as soon as she softened up, he quit almost entirely.  

Exactly. I think sometimes he treated her better when they were only friends. And it's not like  Amy wants him to be Prince Charming, her wishes are really small. I don't think it's very hard for him to do those things because he loves her. 

Like in the screensaver episode, all he had to do was to admit that he missed her even a little bit or maybe just say something like "it's good to be home and see you." But no, he just ignored every love expression from Amy. She was soooo excited at the beginning when they started to walk upstairs her voice cracked a little. By the time they got home, she was totally disappointed. And it's so painful to see that she wasn't brave enough to just touch his arm or back slightly. Ugh... That's not good weird, that's just unhealthy for a couple in love. I would never want to see this "old Shamy" again. 

[koops]

28 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

While I do agree with most parts of your post l, I do think it's necessary that they alter Amy's behavior to make her want romance and more intimacy with Sheldon. And it's natural. That's just people who fall more and more in love do. They want more from their partners.

One of the reasons that the old school Shamy can get along very well without all the "crap" is because they were really just friends back then (even after they were officially a couple there was a long time that they still behavior like friends)  As friends there's no need to develop more other than admiration towards one another. But they can't always be friends, at least I don't want them to. If it wasn't because of Amy's behavior change, their relationship probably would never go anywhere. That's why I like Shamy in season 8 more. Like in the fort episode, they do weird stuff together, and I can tell they love each other very easily. 

Yes we don't need to see them act like a normal couple. But this break up is supposed to make them change, especially Sheldon. He can't just have his eiphany in two episodes and then "since we've gotten over with the intimacy part, let's go back to normal". If that happens, this break up is truly a waste of time. So now will they still only kiss on date nights? How about the relationship agreement? Is she still a little afraid to touch him because he doesn't like that? 

And to those old school Shamy moments where they interact like they're nothing more than friends, No, thank you. I don't want them back. Or at least I want a 2.0 version of them. If I want to see friendship, I'll go see Leonard and Sheldon. I want my Shamy to finally be like a weird "couple" and I want see their love in every moment they're together. Not two weird friends who once in a season express their love.

Well, that depends on what kind of relationship they're writing. While I'm in no way advocating that Sheldon and Amy should have kept a non-sexual relationship or non-physical relationship, and I'm happy to see them explore those aspects with each other and find it interesting, there's no just one way to have a relationship. I'm sure there are people out there for whom falling in love does not necessarily imply physical intimacy or "romance" in the most traditional sense. Granted, I'm probably talking about a minority, but I wouldn't say that there's only one natural expression of being in love and there are only two possibilities: friends or conventional relationship. Or that if Amy's behavior hadn't changed their relationship wouldn't have gone anywhere. They could have still developed deeper and deeper feelings through the years in tons of different ways. I personally have always been quite open to different possibilities for them, so long as they're happy and on the same page: they could have ended the show as platonic roommates never having started a proper romantic relationship, or end it with 2 kids and a dog (or turtle, in their case), but as long as it's written in a quirky and adorkable way, I am ok with anything. But the keyword for me is quirky and adorkable.

Having said that, the story is that yes, Amy has grown to want certain things (and so has Sheldon, albeit at a slower pace) and what I do completely agree on though is that it would make absolutely no sense to go through all this heartbreak and drama of a breakup only to go back to Amy wanting more and Sheldon dragging his feet again, just this time, say, it's about how often to have sex or stuff like that. THAT stuff definitely needs to change. But, again, when I talk about old school Shamy, I am not talking about wanting the romantic part of their relationship to go back to the push-and-pull dynamic, I'm talking about their intellectual connection and camaraderie that attracted me to them. To me the most important thing is that they are on the same page again and that they are quirky and adorkable together. That's probably because I didn't get into their relationship with any specific romantic expectations, but because I like them being weirdos together (and I don't think there's any other pairing on this show that's as quirky and weird as these two can get - even as friends they were a totally different ballgame) and that's what I mean when I say I want to see that again. 

Edited December 7, 2015 by koops

[wowbagger]

38 minutes ago, YlvaBorealis89 said:

Oh, you are right as always wowbagger, let me rephrase that then *clears throat*: I have to remind myself to add a little traditional  romance.  

ah. (taps side of nose) severed plant genitals and suchlike, yes? Gotcha.

I really, really don't want to crap on the joyous mood in this thread by rehashing the Great Was This Breakup Necessary (aka #TeamSheldon/#TeamAmy) Debate of 2015, but I did say that my people are uncomfortable with pleasure.

So here goes.....

I understand that lots of people saw Sheldon and Amy in s4/5 as friends, rather than lovers, but I never did. A friendship that intense and consuming can never be 'just' friendship (and what is so 'just' about 'just' friends anyway?). I am one of the people who thought that Sheldon and amy had something unique and magical, almost BECAUSE their 'just' friendship looked so like the first throes of a love affair, in everything but in the obvious trappings.

I am also one of the people who experienced it as a loss when Amy lunged overnight into wanting candlelit dinners, and expecting Sheldon to lunge overnight himself into wanting to provide them. Understand me, I am NOT saying that wanting those things is bad. I am, however, saying that I am sympathetic to Sheldon digging his heels in when his spiky, brilliant soulmate turned into a sitcom staple who sighed and tutted and needled and wheedled and pushed and wanted things she had never wanted (things she had explicitly joined him-preempted him-in despisng) and was so very, very seldom happy with the mountains of work that he was doing on himself in order to provide her with things that he would never, ever have contemplating offering ANYONE.

now, does this mean that Sheldon is perfect? Obviously not. Sheldon lashed out and was manipulative and dickish throughout s6 and s7. Many times I have wondered whether he was stringing Amy along with the promise of eventual intimacy in order to extract from her care and admiration.

but there is this, too- for all of Sheldon's many, many faults, the show has had him more clearly and explicitly articulate that he values Amy and worries about losing her, than they have had Amy do the same. While I worried about Sheldon stringing Amy along, I worried too that Amy was gritting her teeth with a man she no longer respected or even liked, in order to extract from him the intimacy she felt was her due once she had put in her time.

both Sheldon and Amy have faults, and their relationship in s6/7 was a festival of bitterness and mean-spiritedness (born largely of the writers' refusal to commit to Sheldon's 'deal'). But-just as Amy has a right to want traditional romance and sex- Sheldon has a right to not want them, and to not provide them until he is ready.

the issue was not that one was right and one was wrong. Both were wrong plenty of the time, and hopefully the writers will realise that they are funnier and cuter when they are on the same page.