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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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7 hours ago, wowbagger said:

ah. (taps side of nose) severed plant genitals and suchlike, yes? Gotcha.

I really, really don't want to crap on the joyous mood in this thread by rehashing the Great Was This Breakup Necessary (aka #TeamSheldon/#TeamAmy) Debate of 2015, but I did say that my people are uncomfortable with pleasure.

So here goes.....

I understand that lots of people saw Sheldon and Amy in s4/5 as friends, rather than lovers, but I never did. A friendship that intense and consuming can never be 'just' friendship (and what is so 'just' about 'just' friends anyway?). I am one of the people who thought that Sheldon and amy had something unique and magical, almost BECAUSE their 'just' friendship looked so like the first throes of a love affair, in everything but in the obvious trappings.

I am also one of the people who experienced it as a loss when Amy lunged overnight into wanting candlelit dinners, and expecting Sheldon to lunge overnight himself into wanting to provide them. Understand me, I am NOT saying that wanting those things is bad. I am, however, saying that I am sympathetic to Sheldon digging his heels in when his spiky, brilliant soulmate turned into a sitcom staple who sighed and tutted and needled and wheedled and pushed and wanted things she had never wanted (things she had explicitly joined him-preempted him-in despisng) and was so very, very seldom happy with the mountains of work that he was doing on himself in order to provide her with things that he would never, ever have contemplating offering ANYONE.

now, does this mean that Sheldon is perfect? Obviously not. Sheldon lashed out and was manipulative and dickish throughout s6 and s7. Many times I have wondered whether he was stringing Amy along with the promise of eventual intimacy in order to extract from her care and admiration.

but there is this, too- for all of Sheldon's many, many faults, the show has had him more clearly and explicitly articulate that he values Amy and worries about losing her, than they have had Amy do the same. While I worried about Sheldon stringing Amy along, I worried too that Amy was gritting her teeth with a man she no longer respected or even liked, in order to extract from him the intimacy she felt was her due once she had put in her time.

both Sheldon and Amy have faults, and their relationship in s6/7 was a festival of bitterness and mean-spiritedness (born largely of the writers' refusal to commit to Sheldon's 'deal'). But-just as Amy has a right to want traditional romance and sex- Sheldon has a right to not want them, and to not provide them until he is ready.

the issue was not that one was right and one was wrong. Both were wrong plenty of the time, and hopefully the writers will realise that they are funnier and cuter when they are on the same page.

Coming in here a little late....but this was said perfectly. I loved the early dynamics of the Sheldon/Amy relationship. I never really bought the friendship thing. I knew when he got those 25 cats that Amy was someone he valued in his life.

 

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I have waited patiently all day long to find the time to weigh in on the Sheldon/Amy friendship analysis and Sheldon's development to where he is now.    I apologize if I'm repeating what has already been expressed.

Right from the beginning, Amy and Sheldon were on uneven ground in their relationship.   To keep her mother at bay, Amy was actively on the prowl looking for a date, even completing a questionnaire on a dating website to find compatibility.   Sheldon, on-the-other hand, with no desire to date at all, was unwittingly blackmailed into meeting Amy and then begrudgingly became hooked at “Hello.”   Why not?   They were matched by common interests and personality.  I would go so far as to say that Amy may have even been smitten by Sheldon’s physical appearance.     I believe there has always been something more than friendship between these two. Immediately, Raj and Howard recognized what they had done and were beginning to regret the pairing.

Denial on the part of Sheldon did not change the reality of his relationship with Amy, especially to his friends who have been observing from the outside, and Amy herself from the inside.  Right from the onset, they were deemed as Shamy.        

First of all, for four months Shamy were engaged in texting and online chit chat, sharing enough interest in each other to determine they wanted to breed the next generation of genius scientists.   Sheldon was moved enough by Penny’s urging to consider going on his first ever date to get to know the potential future mother of his children.

Secondly, I believe Amy knew she was Sheldon’s girlfriend but manipulated and allowed him to believe the fantasy he chose to create around them for the sake of keeping him around.    I think her line to Sheldon about him smothering her was thrown out there to appease him because she realized she messed up by asking him to meet her mother.   She smiled knowingly when he called her a vixen.    They pretended coitus with each other twice.   Amy called him out on his jealousy over Zack.  She talked Sheldon into cuddling with her after being denied a make out instead.    Amy told Leonard she had a kind-of-sort-of boyfriend, and Penny told her if her relationship with Sheldon wasn’t going anywhere after 1.5 years, she should consider dating others.      These things don’t happen with someone who believes they are just someone's friend.

In the beginning, Sheldon disliked Amy being referenced as his girlfriend, becoming overly defensive about it.   However, he always referred to their “friendship” as a relationship and even mocked Leonard for being glad he can’t keep a girl, because they are a handful.    He showed signs of jealousy.   He enjoyed feigning and referencing coitus with her.  As their relationship progressed and the more accurate everyone started sounding that Amy was his girlfriend, the more irritated Sheldon became and the truth became as an insult, even to the point of him unfriending everyone on Facebook for outing him.  

When Sheldon realized that his friendship was being threatened by Stuart entering the picture, he was forced to change the “title” of their relationship and their nights out together as dates, but he informed Amy that nothing else had changed.   However, something did change.   Sheldon’s perspective of Amy was changing.   The things he did and said were hurting her feelings, and he felt compelled to find ways to make up for his mistakes.   He was really starting to care for her, risking exposure to germs to help her get well.   He used control measures contained within the Relationship Agreement to protect his ego, vulnerability, and insecurities to guard himself from the truth that he was not ready to face, that he was becoming more attached to her by the minute.   She was urging him to do things that he never would have considered before her, and he begrudgingly went along because he wanted to keep her.

Sheldon has always been portrayed as a man who does not need or is interested in sex for himself, but he has acknowledged on several occasions that his genitals function, and he is capable of arousal/urges.  I have always believed the reason he avoided physical contact and put things like the Relationship Agreement in place was to try to control his relationship with Amy to keep things from heading down that path.   Why the aversion to having women in his room?   To having Amy share a hotel room with him?  To Amy moving in with him?   I think Sheldon was more afraid of the effect these things would have on him, than on Amy, and using the excuse about what others would think was another form of denial.   Seeing this romantic side of him surface now leads me to believe that these things have been within him all along, and all of his insulting remarks against such things were to hide his true self from Amy and others.  

Almost immediately after the title of their relationship changed, Sheldon’s behavior toward Amy became off-putting.   Amy wanted more of Sheldon’s attention, whereas Sheldon was desperately trying to cling to what they had before by trying to redirect or skirt areas or subjects that made him uncomfortable.    He could have ended it with Amy, figuring she had become too much for him to handle, but he didn’t.    The more he found that he wanted and needed her, the more he took out his frustration by becoming antagonistic toward Amy for falling in love with him and wanting all the things that come with it because he was not ready to reveal himself to her.   Whereas they used to pretend with coitus and have fun with the subject, to Sheldon the topic had become an uncomfortable one around her, and so he lashed out at any mention of her physical desire for him.

Sheldon and Amy’s coupledom confuses people because it doesn’t follow the pattern in which most relationships follow.  Intimacy to Sheldon is not defined by coitus, but the relationship is extremely serious to him, causing him to constantly have to negotiate terms with Amy to keep her happy while at the same time retaining some level of control.   He wanted to give her a little bit of something to let her know he was vested in the relationship while at the same time telling her he really didn’t want to be bothered with it either.  It seemed that Amy wanted more in the relationship than Sheldon did, but I’ve always thought that Sheldon wanted these things, too.   He fought it because he just didn’t understand that he wanted them or why he wanted them.   There’s no logical reasoning behind it.  He always trusted her to drag him along only to find that many times he enjoyed the end-result, but he wasn't going to do it without resistance.      

Sheldon’s protection was in his refusal to allow himself to be himself and essentially deny his own existence as a man with the need to be loved and to give love.    Like he told Raj and Howard, no one was better at pretending to be human than he, but the pretense is where he went wrong.    By attempting to avoid facing his vulnerabilities and giving into his feelings, Sheldon lost his battle with Amy.   Only in his loss was he able to truly know and understand love and find the joy of winning the war with his heart.    Having gotten Amy back, he is now ready to tackle the honesty within himself, which is why he feels safe enough to let Amy in and to give his love and himself to her completely. 

So, I think we will see the return of the old school Shamy playing games, experimenting, bickering, FWF, eye coitus, etc.   The element that will be missing is Sheldon’s denial and Amy’s constant fight to get him to see past it to embrace the things he really does desire.  We will get a more balanced symbiosis, which will make watching all their quirkiness together a lot more enjoyable.   In fact, I think we will get a lot more comedy now that the drama is over.   

There may be a few bumps along the way, but each bump will be a push forward.   I think the momentum will not only be in his relationship with Amy, but in his personal pursuits, and in his career now that he’s realized that success does not necessarily revolve around a methodical set of rules and regulations.  That’s not to say he won’t continue trying it this way.  He is, after all Sheldon, but I think he’s come to understand better that sometimes the heart just wants what the heart wants.  There is nothing logical about it, but life can be a lot more productive when you embrace your emotions and be willing to take risks to secure the more important things, especially when those things effect the ones you love.

Edited by jenafan
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8 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I think they found that, in Amy's bed. :icon_biggrin: 

I actually want Penny and Leonard to be freaked out, by knowing the Shamy are bumping ugglies, in Sheldon's bedroom.

It'd be a sweet revenge, for all the times Sheldon has had to put up with Leonard (with and without Penny), doing the same.

To quote Sheldon:-

Payback, it truly is the B word, isn’t it? :icon_biggrin: 

Ever since the early seasons when Lenny were first dating, I've wanted the tables to be turned where Sheldon is the one having sex while Leonard wears noise-cancelling headphones.

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2 hours ago, jenafan said:

 

Right from the beginning, Amy and Sheldon were on uneven ground in their relationship.  

No they weren't.  They were both shown to be on the same page.

To keep her mother at bay, Amy was actively on the prowl looking for a date, even completing a questionnaire on a dating website to find compatibility.   Sheldon, on-the-other hand, with no desire to date at all, was unwittingly blackmailed into meeting Amy and then begrudgingly became hooked at “Hello”.    Why not?   They were matched by common interests and personality.  I would go so far as to say that Amy may have even been smitten by Sheldon’s physical appearance.     I believe there has always been something more than friendship between these two. Immediately, Raj and Howard recognized what they had done and were beginning to regret the pairing.

Amy wasn't on "the prowl."  She was blackmailed into dating by her mother.  She had just about as much interest in dating then Sheldon did, in the beginning.  She even told Penny later in the series that she lied about having a boyfriend so they would GET OFF HER BACK (her words by the way) about having a boyfriend.  Remember her story about Armend, the miniature horse breeder.

As for getting on the website.  Yeah but I think it was simply to find a friend she had things in common with.  Nothing more.  "All forms of physical contact up to an including coitus are off the table."  I think that was her way of letting him know up front ("Before this goes any further....." speech) was her way of letting him know it was for platonic friendship only.

Sheldon didn't get hooked at Hello.  Do you remember their conversation?  She introduces herself, he apologizes to her because he feels she's wasting her time with online dating and the only reason he's there is because he's being blackmailed.  He's not interested at this point.

She agrees with him on the thing he's being blackmailed with (soiled hosiery) and tells him she's in a similar predicament with her mother.  "My mother & I agree that I will date at least once a year."  That sounds to me that she has no interest in dating at all and is only doing the least amount possible (at least ONE a year) to shut her mother up.

If either of them was smitten on that first day, I'd say it was Sheldon.  He's the one that offered to buy her a beverage.  After, she told him, more or less, platonic friendship with no touching.  Of course, he's going to jump at that.  A person (of the opposite sex) who seems very similar to him and she's already on board with a no touching rule.  Perfect.  I think those first four months of only electronic communication was all his idea because deep down, he felt it that first day.  But I don't think Amy did.  She'd start feeling it a little later.  That first day, her guard was up high and she was not ashamed to show it.

I do agree with the last part of this bolded section in that Raj & Howard saw it right away but I think on Sheldon's part because they knew him and to see him connect with a girl like that, within 1 MINUTE, was astounding.

 

Secondly, I believe Amy knew she was Sheldon’s girlfriend but manipulated and allowed him to believe the fantasy he chose to create around them for the sake of keeping him around.    I think her line to Sheldon about him smothering her was thrown out there to appease him because she realized she messed up by asking him to meet her mother.   She smiled knowingly when he called her a vixen.    They pretended coitus with each other twice.   Amy called him out on his jealousy over Zack.  She talked Sheldon into cuddling with her after being denied a make out instead.    Amy told Leonard she had a kind-of-sort-of boyfriend, and Penny told her if her relationship with Sheldon wasn’t going anywhere after 1.5 years, she should consider dating others.      These things don’t happen with someone who believes they are just someone's friend.

For starters, I don't think she was being manipulative at all back then.  Hell, she didn't seem to take any interest until Herb Garden (episode 20....almost a year after they meet).  I think an episode, or two or three before Hern Garden is when she maybe secretly started noticing him as something other than just a friend.  And that smile when he called her a vixen was when we see it.  But before then.  Indifference.

She told him in the lobby of his apartment why she wanted him to meet her mother.  So thy she would think Amy was in a relationship.  And if she's already in a relationship, she doesn't have to go on those yearly dates. And she still gets to hang out with her new friend Sheldon.  

I think both times they pretend to have sex was Sheldon's idea.  After the Skype call with her mom, he's the one that says he's curious what it would be like to have sex at least once in their relationship.  Did you catch the confused look on her face before he says Bazinga?

Of course she calls him out on his jealousy of Zack.  She's a brain scientist that isn't as socially clueless as Sheldon and can understand facial cues.

The rest happened AFTER Herb Garden which I think is when Amy started developing her crush on him.  At least not long before that.  But before, all I got was indifference where anything romantic with him was concerned.  

 

Ahhh.....I hate this quote function!  

I agree with everything you said except the parts I bolded.  

 

Edited by Kathy2611
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6 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

Ahhh.....I hate this quote function!  

I agree with everything you said except the parts I bolded.  

 

You make a valid argument, but I've have always seen Amy as being into Sheldon right from the very beginning, starting with her facial expression when they walked up to the counter for her tepid water.    I think she has always used her bag of tricks in some form or another, even telling Sheldon that she was curious about him losing his mind over her being the reason she was sitting on his couch after they ended their relationship.   Amy wanted back in as much as he did.   I don't think she had romantic feelings or even urges at the time, but I don't think it was indifference, either.

When Amy asked Sheldon to meet his mother, I felt Amy realized she went too far, practically stalking him to get a chance to set matters straight.   They straightened things out, and Sheldon asked her to go out for a bite.   Amy accuses him of smothering her.   I don't think she meant it.   I think she was using reverse psychology trying to ease Sheldon's mind that she realized that she had almost smothered him with her request.

Furthermore, I don't think she would have presented Sheldon to her mother, let alone let Sheldon go on about their fake coitus if a part of her wasn't convinced he was something of a boyfriend, and Sheldon seemed all to happy to go along with it after Amy provided her explanation.   Her look of confusion at the end could very well have been because Sheldon suggested they engage "at least one time in their relationship", not that she was put necessarily put off by it.

Edited by jenafan
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1 hour ago, Ranger Rosa said:

CBS is recycling clothes! lol

And they should!  Real people wear their multiple times and Sheldon and Leonard sure wear shirts repeatedly.  The interesting thing about this for me is that several people have mentioned Amy having a "new look" on these dates (including 9.10) that is less layered.  But clearly she has done this dress-and-light-cardigan  thing before.

Edited by jlove
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47 minutes ago, jlove said:

And they should!  Real people wear their multiple times and Sheldon and Leonard sure wear shirts repeatedly.  The interesting thing about this for me is that several people have mentioned Amy having a "new look" on these dates (including 9.10) that is less layered.  But clearly she has done this dress-and-light-cardigan  thing before.

The dress definitely fits her better now. It looks like the girls convinced her to at least take her date clothes to the tailor if they couldn't get her to agree to buying a new wardrobe. 

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4 hours ago, jlove said:

And they should!  Real people wear their multiple times and Sheldon and Leonard sure wear shirts repeatedly.  The interesting thing about this for me is that several people have mentioned Amy having a "new look" on these dates (including 9.10) that is less layered.  But clearly she has done this dress-and-light-cardigan  thing before.

Amy wore that dress also in her previous date with Dave, when he kissed her and Sheldon saw everything. This might be very telling of the fact she doesn't care that much about Dave; although most men will never notice a dress, I think most women will never wear the same dress in two different close dates with the same guy! LOL!!! Just kidding!!! Anyway, happy she keeps her new fancy dress for 9.11!!!

Edited by mirs1
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