Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9

[jenafan]

2 hours ago, rachelshamyfan said:

For the first time in a long time, I'm not going to make it for chat room after taping, work is super busy this week and I probably won't get time, but I look forward to reading about it

Hi Rachel.   I am in the same boat as you.   Work has gotten extremely busy.   I don't even have time to be on the forum during the day anymore.   All I can do is run through reading posts in between tasks and like them as I go, hoping I'll be able to come back to comment on a topic later before interest in the subject has died off.

It's a shame, because this is when I want to be on here more.   I'll probably miss the chat room as well, because I really need to rest to be able function at the office.   If I do by some chance get in, I'll miss you being there.

I just keep thinking, the day after tomorrow and we'll see the entire reconciliation scene.   I can't wait to see Sheldon's confession about what Amy has done for him and to hear the ILYs.

Like you, I hope to wake up tomorrow morning with some good spoilers and commentary to read.

Got my late night glass of water and comment in.  Going back to bed.  I wish you a good and productive work week.

[Cecilia]

@jena sorry for replying without quoting but I am afraid I might mess up. My disagreement with you post is about the same section Kathy quoted. I don't think there is any sign that Amy was aware of their relationship being actually romantic at the time and surely not manipulating him. I think I would hate that because it would feel that she was not being completely honest with him. As Kathy said on their first encounter Amy seemed to be really aloof not really wanting to be there but doing it to get her mother off her back. I also think that Sheldon was way more smitten than her cause finally he found a human in a world of dogs (I think that is something Sheldon said or someone here once wrote but it's definitely not mine) so he grabbed the opportunity. For Amy I think it was a chance to have a friend and then an opportunity to finally stop meeting random people out of a dating site. Anyway Amy especially back then is bland and deadpan, with an arrogant streak and never afraid to throw the truth in Sheldon's face. Also a strong indicator for me that this was friendship for her also is when she grabbed his hand. She seemed not to be affected in the same way Zack affected her. I think the turning point was Herb Garden. I think that's when she started falling for Sheldon. And after the kiss everything started falling into place for both of them. And still I think both were honest about rebooting their relationship because it was a lot to handle for them both. Did she start realizing it was romantic? Probably but so did he. They were still pretty equal except for the fact that Amy could admit it easier. Also one thing I think is very telling about the date that she used her "bag of tricks" to accelerate his affection is that she told him explicitly what she was going to do. No manipulation at all. Actually, the only time I think she did manipulate him (train episode aside) is the Table episode. Which I hate. I think that then she ignored a serious problem Sheldon had and maninipulated him into staying in the relationship and it finally caught up with her. I really believe Shamy works better when they are honest with each other and IMO  that's part of the reason why their relationship was so functional from the first time. Anyway,that's just how I see Shamy of course and Amy in particular.

[kelliluvtbbt]

10 hours ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

Ok I thought the ET clip 'views' were cool but I've just seen this: 

 That's a lot of shipping!

to be fair, 800 of those views were mine! 

 

9 hours ago, FortCozyMcBlanket said:

I really hope the season 9 DVD/blu-ray will have a bonus feature of Jim and Mayim talking about the roller coaster relationship of Shamy this season! 

this is one season I'm definitely buying!!!! ( the others I've downloaded... shame on me) 

5 hours ago, MAH_B said:

I'm ready for some of those pics/gifs to come back. It's been too long since anyone mentioned anything about them/quoted them/etc! Come on...kisses? Sheldon's face at the door? Giving Amy the eyes from bed...? Anyone? 

 here you go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

54 minutes ago, jenafan said:

Hi Rachel.   I am in the same boat as you.   Work has gotten extremely busy.   I don't even have time to be on the forum during the day anymore.   All I can do is run through reading posts in between tasks and like them as I go, hoping I'll be able to come back to comment on a topic later before interest in the subject has died off.

I'm in the boat with you guys too, I keep coming into the forum late and everyone has already said what I was gonna say  

[Kathy2611]

6 hours ago, jenafan said:

You make a valid argument, but I've have always seen Amy as being into Sheldon right from the very beginning, starting with her facial expression when they walked up to the counter for her tepid water.    I think she has always used her bag of tricks in some form or another, even telling Sheldon that she was curious about him losing his mind over her being the reason she was sitting on his couch after they ended their relationship.   Amy wanted back in as much as he did.   I don't think she had romantic feelings or even urges at the time, but I don't think it was indifference, either.

When Amy asked Sheldon to meet his mother, I felt Amy realized she went too far, practically stalking him to get a chance to set matters straight.   They straightened things out, and Sheldon asked her to go out for a bite.   Amy accuses him of smothering her.   I don't think she meant it.   I think she was using reverse psychology trying to ease Sheldon's mind that she realized that she had almost smothered him with her request.

Furthermore, I don't think she would have presented Sheldon to her mother, let alone let Sheldon go on about their fake coitus if a part of her wasn't convinced he was something of a boyfriend, and Sheldon seemed all to happy to go along with it after Amy provided her explanation.   Her look of confusion at the end could very well have been because Sheldon suggested they engage "at least one time in their relationship", not that she was put necessarily put off by it.

In the beginning, Amy was too outspoken and blunt to be manipulative enough to use her bag of tricks.  The look on her face when she went up to the counter to get her water?  I didn't see it as attraction on her part at all.  I'm sure he was the first guy that stuck around after he "no coitus" speech.  And she was curious.  She is a brain scientist after all.  

Again, she's a brain scientist and she even says that's the reason she's there next to him on the couch in Zazzy.  "Your mother thinks you might be losing your mind over me.  As a neurobiologist, I was curious."  I'm sure it also peeked her interest that for the first time in her life, I boy has a crush on her.  

When I say she's indifferent, I don't mean towards Sheldon in general but indifferent to anything romantic with him.

As for her mother and that whole situation, again, I think your reading too much into it.  She didn't stalk him.  He took the time to "erase" himself electronically and when she tried to get in contact with him about WHEN she wanted him to meet her mother, she wasn't able to get a hold of him so she had no choice but to go to him in person.  By then, yes she realized her mistake in being too vague about meeting her mother.  Again, do you remember that conversation between them?  She wasn't using reverse psychology.  All she wanted was her mother off her back and since Sheldon is a boy who's her friend (her only friend at that time) why not use him to make her mom think there's something more than there was?  No harm, no fowl. 

Watch season 4 again and see if what you see is still there.  I agree he became smitten from the first day, but it took Amy quiet a few episodes to get there too but she did get there eventually.

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

If Amy didn't consider Sheldon more than a friend in early S4 then why did she declare Penny her 'best friend' ahead of Sheldon?

Surely Sheldon would have been her "bestie" ? 

Their first meeting:

 

When Amy says that she has agreed to date once a year, Sheldon responds by saying that he has the same agreement with his mother about church and that is when he softens slightly toward her, he is clearly interested in having a conversation with her, even though a few seconds earlier he was dismissive of her entirely.

Then she tells him that coitus is off the table and his whole demeanour changes, he opens his arms up and offers to buy her a beverage. He seems fascinated that he may have met another member of his species finally.

Then at the counter she glances at him, she quickly looks away when he notices her looking, then she takes a deep breath. He looks fascinated/confused and she looks excited!

There was definitely a spark there from the very beginning, Howard and Raj saw it too! I doubt either of them really knew what it was and/or how to deal with it but it was there. 

[Kathy2611]

8 hours ago, jenafan said:

 

Have I mentioned how much I hate this quote function?  I don't even know why it's quoting you again Jenafan but whatever. 

I agree there was a spark between them on that first day but after that, we didn't get anything from Amy to indicate she wanted more or even thought of Sheldon as more than just a friend.  She seemed indifferent as far as any romantic notion with Sheldon was concerned.  Again, not indifferent to him in general.  Just with any romantic notion.  We didn't get any indication from her until after Herb Garden.  20 episodes (roughly 10 months) later.

Sheldon, however, was clearly smitten from the beginning and regarded their relationship as, well, a relationship while at the same time insisting she wasn't his girlfriend.  I think he protests too much.  

[mphs95]

1 hour ago, Ranger Rosa said: CBS is recycling clothes! lol

And they should!  Real people wear their multiple times and Sheldon and Leonard sure wear shirts repeatedly.  The interesting thing about this for me is that several people have mentioned Amy having a "new look" on these dates (including 9.10) that is less layered.  But clearly she has done this dress-and-light-cardigan  thing before.

Something that caught me last season. Penny wore a shirt with red poppies in The Septum Deviation. Three weeks later, I was watching Bones' The Mutilation in the Master Manipulator and Brennan was wearing the exact same blouse!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[April]

I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with various points in this discussion. But what it comes down to -for me at least- is that with those two there was a mutual spark right from the beginning - even though neither of them may have figured it out right away given their inexperience and the improbability of their meeting. I don't think either of them ever expected to meet someone that's such a perfect fit for them and I don't mind that the semantics weren't exactly tied down even though they easily could've gone the girlfriend/boyfriend route a lot earlier and it wouldn't have made a whole lot of difference. (Though admittedly that's coming from someone who was also delivering quite a few of those ridiculous speeches like "Yes, he's my friend. Yes he's a boy. But no, he's not my boyfriend!" You may put two and two together how that one ended... lol)

Anyway, navigating those new uncharted waters can be tricky, especially with those two rather peculiar people like Sheldon and Amy. And that's fine with me. I don't think there was much if any manipulation involved in those early days but just mostly trying to figure out what was going on between them.

[jenafan]

5 hours ago, Cecilia said:

@jena sorry for replying without quoting but I am afraid I might mess up. My disagreement with you post is about the same section Kathy quoted. I don't think there is any sign that Amy was aware of their relationship being actually romantic at the time and surely not manipulating him. I think I would hate that because it would feel that she was not being completely honest with him. As Kathy said on their first encounter Amy seemed to be really aloof not really wanting to be there but doing it to get her mother off her back. I also think that Sheldon was way more smitten than her cause finally he found a human in a world of dogs (I think that is something Sheldon said or someone here once wrote but it's definitely not mine) so he grabbed the opportunity. For Amy I think it was a chance to have a friend and then an opportunity to finally stop meeting random people out of a dating site. Anyway Amy especially back then is bland and deadpan, with an arrogant streak and never afraid to throw the truth in Sheldon's face. Also a strong indicator for me that this was friendship for her also is when she grabbed his hand. She seemed not to be affected in the same way Zack affected her. I think the turning point was Herb Garden. I think that's when she started falling for Sheldon. And after the kiss everything started falling into place for both of them. And still I think both were honest about rebooting their relationship because it was a lot to handle for them both. Did she start realizing it was romantic? Probably but so did he. They were still pretty equal except for the fact that Amy could admit it easier. Also one thing I think is very telling about the date that she used her "bag of tricks" to accelerate his affection is that she told him explicitly what she was going to do. No manipulation at all. Actually, the only time I think she did manipulate him (train episode aside) is the Table episode. Which I hate. I think that then she ignored a serious problem Sheldon had and maninipulated him into staying in the relationship and it finally caught up with her. I really believe Shamy works better when they are honest with each other and IMO  that's part of the reason why their relationship was so functional from the first time. Anyway,that's just how I see Shamy of course and Amy in particular.

You and Kathy make some convincing opposing view points that have really caused me to think about my own views on this.   One thing I have decided is that the word manipulation in my post was too strong of a word for Amy, but I do still believe there was something more there for Amy than she was letting on.   I love the way it has been brought out that it was Sheldon who was more smitten than Amy, and indeed it was him that initiated the fake coitus.   This just goes further to prove to me his denial and that these desires were buried deep inside of him, where he tried so hard to keep them.  It also proves he is not as naïve about such things as he lets on.   He liked the idea of coitus, but the actual act is what repulsed him.

As far as him doing nothing for her when she grabbed his hand, she had already had her release from shaking Zack's hand.   The way I see it, the urge was no longer there.   Perhaps if she had taken it before, something would have happened.   To say Sheldon does nothing for her would have negated Penny's attempts to convince Sheldon that he could do something about her "condition."   I about died when he told Penny she was horny.   I never thought something like that would come out of his mouth.

2 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

I agree there was a spark between them on that first day but after that, we didn't get anything from Amy to indicate she wanted more or even thought of Sheldon as more than just a friend.  She seemed indifferent as far as any romantic notion with Sheldon was concerned.  Again, not indifferent to him in general.  Just with any romantic notion.  We didn't get any indication from her until after Herb Garden.  20 episodes (roughly 10 months) later.

Sheldon, however, was clearly smitten from the beginning and regarded their relationship as, well, a relationship while at the same time insisting she wasn't his girlfriend.  I think he protests too much.  

I love the bold part, and like I said, perhaps I am reading too much into it, but at the same time I could also make the argument that others aren't reading enough.    It really can go both ways depending on one's perspective.    Nonetheless, I will go back and rewatch S4 to see if my opinion on this matter is exaggerated.   I do recall one instance where Shamy met up with Sheldon's friends at the Cheesecake factory, and Amy wanted to know why they couldn't have dinner alone.    This to me was another indicator that Amy was more into Sheldon than she was letting on.

I may come back to this post later with additional comments after more thought on the matter.

Edited December 8, 2015 by jenafan

[ShLe94]

I'm late to the 'party' and  you guys have already said most of the things should have been said about the topic, but I'd like to put my two cents in as well. It was clear to me since the very beginning that Sheldon and Amy were meant for each other. No matter what he kept saying to his friends, he fell for her almost immediately, maybe before she did. It was an 'attraction of the mind', but that doesn't mean it was less strong. He admired and appreciated her a lot and realized he wanted her around, maybe more than his closest friends (let's not forget that Leonard was and still is one of the most important people in his life). He was falling in love and just didn't want or wasn't able to acknowledge it... Instead, as someone mentioned, Amy began to have stronger feelings for him around Herb Garden and that quite changed their dynamics. Obviously hanging out with the girls had made her change her mind and behaviour a little, but it wasn't only that. She had a different social and emotional background than him, so she reacted differently to her new feelings. She found out she had that in her and wanted it all, so to speak. The rest is history

If I think they were friends back then? Yes, absolutely. They still are. Friendship doesn't rule out 'romantic' attachment, IMO. It's a kind of love, after all. They are friends that love each other now! That's why I love someone's idea (koops, if I remember well) to bring back 'the old Shamy' and mix it with 'Shamy 2.0', that with the more mature and deeper bond. That's what I'm looking and hoping for! 

     +           +          =   happy fandom 

[Kathy2611]

11 hours ago, jenafan said:

 

Have I mentioned how much I hate this quote function?  I don't even know why it's quoting you again Jenafan but whatever. 

I agree there was a spark 

 

Oh for the love of God, THIS QUOTE FUNCTION SUCKS!!!!  I wanted to quote something else, not this!  Let me try again....

never mind I'm going to be late for work thanks to this fucking suck ass quote function but I will get back to you on the Cheesecake Factory scene unless somebody else beats me to it.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Kathy2611

[koops]

Damn, why do interesting convos happen when I'm 1) busy as hell and 2) sick

I'm sorry if I can't contribute as much as I'd like to this discussion because I find it very interesting, but for what my 2c are worth, I also agree with those who say that Sheldon was smitten with Amy way earlier than she was with him, and that I don't think it even registered with her that he was a potential love interest until mid S4. I think there was definitely a spark between them in that first meeting, but one that they were both too naive, inexperienced and socially stunted to recognize. But you don't see Amy crush on Sheldon until Herb Garden, and even when they call off their relationship in Zazzy she's not affected by it at all, whereas Sheldon is adopting cats and going bonkers. It took her a while to warm up, romantically speaking. I mean, we are talking about someone who had to have SHELDON of all people, explain to her she might be experiencing sexual arousal.  In many ways, Amy was way more robotic and stunted than Sheldon ever was in the first quarter to half of S4, and, in a sense, much more detached from emotions than Sheldon ever was, most likely because she had been sheltered and isolated most of her life in a way Sheldon hadn't. By the time Amy meets Sheldon, Sheldon had already been socialized for years via his friendships with the gang, whereas Amy hadn't. It makes sense to me that he would, at that stage, be the more "advanced" socially speaking of the two. Granted, it's a 'blind leading the blind' situation, but I think that was very much the case. It wasn't until she started hanging out with the girls that she slowly came out of her shell in her own crazy way, and softened up from an emotional POV. I could write three essays and then some on why I think her evolution through that season made perfect sense given what she was being exposed to (beside the fact that they didn't need two identical characters on the show). In a sense, I think Sheldon had feelings for her from very early on, especially due to the euphoria of finding someone "more similar to him than he'd ever met", but feelings he couldn't quite place or recognize because he had never felt them before, and unconsciously behaved with her as if they were in a relationship; whereas Amy was a little bit further behind him. Once she got "socialized, though, because she doesn't have as big an ego, phobias and isn't in denial about things as he i, she embraced everything she was exposed to and felt with a more open mind than Sheldon, and that's where she sped up too fast for him. A part of me always wonder how different their story would have been had the show ended in S7. I got the feeling that we would have been spared a lot of that unpleasant push-and-pull between them if they didn't have to drag on the show for that long.

As for Penny being her "bestie" over Sheldon, I think that was about Penny being the first girlfriend she ever had. I don't think that means she didn't consider Sheldon as her friend, he was indeed the first friend she had ever had. But I think she was ecstatic about finally having a girl friend and one that was "popular" at that, and it was more of an over-excitable teenage girl reaction than anything else. I still think Amy doesn't open up with others the way she does with Sheldon, and we kind of saw it during the breakup, where she wouldn't even talk to anybody about what was going through her head. In a sense, I think Amy has spent so long craving for the romantic part of her relationship that she didn't realize what great a friend she has in Sheldon too. Maybe now that she's romantically satisfied she will realize that she has indeed fallen for her best (and first) friend. 

[Cecilia]

54 minutes ago, ShLe94 said:

If I think they were friends back then? Yes, absolutely. They still are. Friendship doesn't rule out 'romantic' attachment, IMO. It's a kind of love, after all. They are friends that love each other now! That's why I love someone's idea (koops, if I remember well) to bring back 'the old Shamy' and mix it with 'Shamy 2.0', that with the more mature and deeper bond. That's what I'm looking and hoping for! 

 

 That is really sweet!! I hope to see them be quirky and happy in the backround having a great time!! 

@koops first of all get well soon!! I loved your post! That's exactly how I feel about the subject!! Thanks for weighing in and I am going to need these three essays about Amy's evolution please!!

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

Whether you're in the 'their approximation of love at first site' camp or the 'it developed over time' camp I think we can all agree that the relationship was definitely something 'deeper' after Herb Garden, yes?

I was just thinking about the old myth that Women fall in love at first sight but Men don't fall until something physical happens and found it hilarious that the Shamy relationship seemed to move in leaps and bounds after they pretended to have coitus!  

In Herb Garden they pretend to 'do the doo' (coming soon to apartment 314!) and in the next episode (The Agreement Dissection) Amy kisses Sheldon.

He puckers his lips and closes his eyes for that kiss!, he declares the experience to be "fascinating!" and then Captain Germaphobe himself sits with her whilst she "vomited on and off for 40 minutes" !!!

Huge stuff for him! and the first time we really see 'physical' Amy! 

[Kathy2611]

Spot on Koops!!  Took the words right out of my mouth!

[April]

2 hours ago, koops said:

Damn, why do interesting convos happen when I'm 1) busy as hell and 2) sick

Get well soon!

2 hours ago, koops said:

 A part of me always wonder how different their story would have been had the show ended in S7. I got the feeling that we would have been spared a lot of that unpleasant push-and-pull between them if they didn't have to drag on the show for that long.

Yeah, that was what I was wondering yesterday with my comment about the writers realising that they can play a long game with those two. With the show climbing the heights of popularity in those years they were probably pretty sure it'll get renewed after S7 so there was no need to rush here. For better or for worse they could take their time and explore some of that push-and-pull dynamic. I dearly hope that they're done with that now because in those years they squeezed every and any possible joke out of that. IMO, right now there's so much more comedy to be found by having Sheldon and Amy adjust to their new relationship dynamic and making everyone else uncomfortable in the process.

2 hours ago, koops said:

As for Penny being her "bestie" over Sheldon, I think that was about Penny being the first girlfriend she ever had. I don't think that means she didn't consider Sheldon as her friend, he was indeed the first friend she had ever had. But I think she was ecstatic about finally having a girl friend and one that was "popular" at that, and it was more of an over-excitable teenage girl reaction than anything else. I still think Amy doesn't open up with others the way she does with Sheldon, and we kind of saw it during the breakup, where she wouldn't even talk to anybody about what was going through her head. In a sense, I think Amy has spent so long craving for the romantic part of her relationship that she didn't realize what great a friend she has in Sheldon too. Maybe now that she's romantically satisfied she will realize that she has indeed fallen for her best (and first) friend. 

Imagine them admitting to each other they're their best friend (maybe with a cheeky "don't tell Leonard/Penny") - wouldn't that be the sweetest thing??

[Denzel]

21 hours ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

Out of interest, where is it in the world you are from? 

From France. French people aren't already American's lover. Watch FR movies to understand.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Denzel

[Stephen Hawking]

23 hours ago, MAH_B said:

(blanking on the darn monkey's name right now)

Ricky.

[jlove]

17 minutes ago, Denzel said:

From France. French people aren't already American's lover. Watch FR movies to understand.

Moi, je sais pas.  Je connais beaucoup de Français qui m'aiment assez bien et je suis américaine.  J'en connais beaucoup qui aiment les Etats-Unis, aussi.  Et oui, je regarde des films français.  MDR.  

Edited December 8, 2015 by jlove

[Denzel]

3 minutes ago, jlove said:

Moi, je sais pas.  Je connais beaucoup de Français qui m'aiment assez bien et je suis américaine.  J'en connais beaucoup qui aiment les Etats-Unis, aussi.  Et oui, je regarde des films français, aussi.  MDR.  

I've never say that people in France don't like american people... or America, that I can say that I really feel not welcome on the site, and I really did nothing for.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Denzel

[Stephen Hawking]

19 hours ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

Ok I thought the ET clip 'views' were cool but I've just seen this: 

That's the very Youtube clip, that brought me to TBBT.

[jlove]

4 minutes ago, Denzel said:

I've never say that people in France don't like american people... or America, that I can say that I really feel not welcome on the site, and I really did nothing for.

C'est pas bon, ça!  Soyez la bienvenue!

Everyone is welcome here!  

[Denzel]

Just now, jlove said:

C'est pas bon, ça!  Soyez la bienvenue!

Everyone is welcome here!  

Merci, sadly it's true and someone on the site tells too, there is a culture crash between US and FR, and I am sad to admit that a lots of frenches are - I can say - against America, that I, and a lots of are, not.

There is no beautiful word for such a truth.

[jlove]

11 minutes ago, Denzel said:

Merci, sadly it's true and someone on the site tells too, there is a culture crash between US and FR, and I am sad to admit that a lots of frenches are - I can say - against America, that I, and a lots of are, not.

There is no beautiful word for such a truth.

Well just so you know I have thankfully only ever felt welcome when I've been in your wonderful country and have always found the French very kind and friendly.  Paris is my favorite city on earth; I was actually just there with my husband and 3 young children.  We returned home only 10 days before the terrible attacks.  :-(

I love that we can bond with people all around the world over TBBT and Shamy!

To bring this conversation back to topic, do you find many people who watch TBBT faithfully in France?  How delayed are your episodes?  Are they dubbed, or subtitled?