Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9

[mirs1]

1 hour ago, koops said:

The ending/cuddle/interviews

And now for some things that left me a bit… deflated: the ending and the emphasis on that ending and the parallels with Wil at the cinema that dominated the interviews more than any other aspect of the episode.

On the one hand, I do understand that the show had already gone very serious, sweet and emotional with Sheldon/Shamy and needed to dial back to their more traditional humor. And I do understand that they were probably very very nervous about writing a sexually active Sheldon and how this might be received by the audience. I get that, and I do get that their need to always insert a “DON’T WORRY! SHELDON IS STILL SHELDON!” scene at the end of episodes like this very much stems from that fear. So I don’t think that that moment or line will necessarily mean much in terms of how this will be handled from here on (and Molaro has already hinted that it might not all be what it seems).

On the other hand, I found the change in demeanor between Sheldon pre-sex and in that kiss (and even Sheldon in Earworm and the passion and abandon with which he lost himself in Amy) and Sheldon post-sex - being relatively unphased - to be a bit too sharp and a bit out of place by this stage.  They seem to really want to tiptoe around Sheldon’s sexuality even here, despite the fact that in the past we have had plenty of moments where it was clear that something was simmering under the surface (like I said, Earworm, his jealousy over Amy sleeping with other men, Prom, other times where he has been sexually possessive of her, Launch Acceleration and so on). And, frankly, to go implying that they engaged in intercourse for over two hours (“of bliss” according to Molaro) and then suddenly imply “Well, Sheldon’s kind of indifferent” is a bit of a stretch. 

Not in the sense that I wanted Sheldon to be all disheveled and going “OMC that was amazing can we do a round two ASAP?”. Not at all. And, after all, he did say “I enjoyed that more than I thought I would”, not “I still don’t see the big fuss” or “Well, can say I’ve tried it once at least” and even implying he wants and looks forward to doing it again, even if it's in a year, is pretty massive for Sheldon. So that’s not my issue. This is not even about sex to me. I know there’s been a lot of debates and arguments in the past weeks about Sheldon’s sexual orientation and all that, but to me that was never really an issue worth discussing. Not only because everyone is different and although attraction, desire, lust and sex are often intertwined, they’re not intertwined in the same way for everyone and it can be very complicated, but there’s nothing wrong with not really seeing the big deal about sex.That doesn’t automatically mean not finding one's partner attractive, or not enjoying sex when one has it, or not enjoying other forms of physical intimacy. But what was always clear and undeniable to me in the entire episode is that this moment was not about sex and lust and desire per se, but about an emotional connection finding a new way to express itself. We can debate until the cows come home about what exactly it is that turns Sheldon on and what turns Amy on, but what is not up for debate is the fact that they both deeply love each other and that this moment for BOTH of them was very much about that love and and intimacy that stems from love. Whether or not they might be turned on by other things in addition to that, love was a turn on for both of them. 

And I kind of felt they sucked that out of the scene a bit, especially by cutting the cuddle. I think having them cuddle after Sheldon said his lines would have done a better job at showing that yes, while Sheldon might not be blown away by sex per se, the experience was still something that moved him on an emotional level. The fact that the lines/reactions/parallels in the end were made specifically to be about sex *the act*, and reading Lorre talk about it as if it was some kind of scientific experiment where Sheldon just gave sex a try really pissed me off because that to me is cheapening the entire experience down to pure sex as the mechanical act driven by hormones and to be an insult to what that night really represents for Sheldon and Amy as a couple. Because it wasn’t about sex for sex’s sake. Never was. That is not the issue here. 

Moving forward

Having said that, like I mentioned, I get that there were also a lot of encouraging statements in the interviews, and that 99% of the episode did incredible justice to the journey that got them here, and that in a sense it’s a good thing that they’re saying “yes, look, they’ve had sex but that’s not the point. There’s more to them than that and it’s not going to change everything they are and have been”. As much as sex is an important milestone for them, it is not what defines them, just as the lack of it didn’t define them before. To have them now be all about sex and wanting sex and having sex would be pretty unimaginative and disappointing to me.

I liked Molaro’s statements that there are years and years of them learning more about each other and ways of loving each other. That this one time wasn’t the be all and end all of their story and there’s a lot left to explore even within and outside of this realm. It’s something I felt from the TR and the way they approached this, that they’ve left a lot of room open to write more stories about how sex will become a part of their relationship from here on. And how now that it’s in “Sheldon’s psyche”, like Lorre said, it will be interesting to see how it affects him and how he compartimentalizes it or fails at compartimentalizing it and so on. In other words, this isn’t the end of the sex question, let alone their relationship, and there’s a lot left to write about, unlike when other couples consummate and that’s the end of it. 

I just hope that just as they realized that they needed to show Sheldon make the first move and initiate their first time because you don’t want to “write an episode like this where it looks like he’s being forced into something his heart is not in”, they will recognize that it would be just as distasteful to write their future sexual relationship as something where Amy demands sex on a regular basis and Sheldon just lies there and gives it to her. There’s nothing wrong with sex not being something that takes over their relationship like it does for others, but also there’s nothing wrong in showing Sheldon show his attraction to her and desire for her (because there have been hints about it in the past) and developing his own new sexuality and finding a place for it in his life. The bottom line is for them to learn to think about “Sheldon and Amy” as opposed to “Sheldon and sex”, because that’s what it comes down to for him. It’s not sex the act, Amy isn't just a vehicle for him to have sex with. It’s about Amy and his feelings, be them romantic or sensual, about Amy. 

Tidbits

Other small observations. I am floored and ecstatic by the great reviews and reception this episode has had! I was expecting a lot more backlash about Sheldon having sex, but, really, everywhere I read (TVLine, ET, SpoilerTV, FB, friends), 99% of comments praised the episode. I hope Molaro will be pleased, since I know he said he was hoping people would like it as much or even more than the SIK. And I think they definitely did! And, finally, as a big Star Wars fan, the whole construction of the episode, but especially the opening was amazing. I’ve watched the opening probably as often as I’ve watched the Shamy parts. Just hearing that music opening a TBBT episode, and what an episode at that, gave me goosebumps! Praise for most of this! I’m looking forward to seeing Shamy do nothing more than be happy and in love in the background now for a while. And if Mayim doesn’t win an Emmy this year, then there’s definitely a conspiracy!

Regarding the last part of your post (I loved it, btw...) what I perceived in those interviews was that everybody in the writers room was really really nervous about how the whole stuff would be received by the general audience. All the interviews were about "Sheldon is still Sheldon", it was the first thing Molaro and Lorre said in each of them. And the tag and the second bed scene were obviously about it, they state out loud that "Sheldon is still Sheldon". The hug might have a little soften this message, in the same way  Sheldon's body language and his invitation to Amy to join him in the engine room after the train kiss did. I'm sorry they cut it, I really don't know if it was because it turned out too OOC or for other technical reasons (the show was running out of time and that was the part they decided to cut, for example...) Molaro explicitly said in one interview that Amy was sent away out of town just to have a physical distance between them (as we were saying here...) I have the impression that, before deciding which way to go, if going further in merging sex in Shamy's life or just ignore the subject, they wanted to see the audience reaction. I'm not saying they do things to please the fans or the audience, of course, but on this particular point for me they were really unsure. Anyway, the good news is, as you said, that general audience loved it, almost everywhere it is acknowledged as one of the best episodes ever, it looks like everybody was worried about nothing and that all their efforts to make a good episode have been rewarded by ratings, reviews, fans appreciation.

I still don't know which way they will decide to go, I only hope that the times of the sexually frustrated Amy are over. What I liked about the bed scene is that her answer to Sheldon is "That works for me..." Of course it was a joke, but it express what I feel about the subject. I will agree with whatever works for both of them, nobody forcing anybody, nobody frustrating anybody. The reassuring part of the interviews is that all of them state that Shamy right now are in a good place, and will remain there for a while. I hope that this means that whatever choice they make it will be a choice that works for both of them.

Edited December 19, 2015 by mirs1

[camelliayao]

2 hours ago, koops said:

On the other hand, I found the change in demeanor between Sheldon pre-sex and in that kiss (and even Sheldon in Earworm and the passion and abandon with which he lost himself in Amy) and Sheldon post-sex - being relatively unphased - to be a bit too sharp and a bit out of place by this stage.  They seem to really want to tiptoe around Sheldon’s sexuality even here, despite the fact that in the past we have had plenty of moments where it was clear that something was simmering under the surface (like I said, Earworm, his jealousy over Amy sleeping with other men, Prom, other times where he has been sexually possessive of her, Launch Acceleration and so on). And, frankly, to go implying that they engaged in intercourse for over two hours (“of bliss” according to Molaro) and then suddenly imply “Well, Sheldon’s kind of indifferent” is a bit of a stretch. 

 

THIS.

This is what bothered me the most. I understand they don't want to change Sheldon too much so they cut the cuddle scene. But do they have to make Sheldon that indifferent and calm? I mean I didn't expect "OMG that was amazing." But what they showed us makes me wonder if Sheldon really is asexual...

[Stephen Hawking]

2 hours ago, koops said:

how he gradually becomes softer

That must have been a disappointment for Amy.  

[koops]

9 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

THIS.

This is what bothered me the most. I understand they don't want to change Sheldon too much so they cut the cuddle scene. But do they have to make Sheldon that indifferent and calm? I mean I didn't expect "OMG that was amazing." But what they showed us makes me wonder if Sheldon really is asexual...

Again, my point isn't even about sex per se. Sheldon could very well be asexual (HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, before people start piling on me  ) but that doesn't mean that he can't be moved on an emotional level by his closeness to Amy during that moment, since their consummation wasn't about sex per se, but about a culmination of years of emotional closeness. To make it all about sex, IMO, is cheapening the moment, and the cut cuddle/interviews/jokes at the end kind of bothered me for that reason. Not to mention, I don't think they cut the cuddle because they don't want to change Sheldon too much, because if they worry about him being too sappy and sweet they wouldn't have written an entire episode about him swooning over a song that reminds him of Amy to then show up at her door, pour his heart out, and make out with her for an hour. LOL!  

However, I do agree there's tons of different interpretations to that scene and that there's nothing to conclusively indicate anything, really. Like Musickat said, her take on the scene is very different from the one I had. And I think it's just as valid. I think they left it just on the edge where they can either move forward with a more sexual Sheldon or backtrack, depending on how it was all received. Sheldon said he enjoyed it more than he expected (which is good), and that he wants to do it again (which is also good), and that leaves the door open for them to move forward with him in that direction if they want to. At the same time, had this been badly received or something, it wouldn't have shot Sheldon out of a cannon to a place of no return. I also kind of get the feeling that there's some very strong opinions on this and to have all writers on the same page about it is tough, so they have to tread slowly and take it one step at a time.

Ultimately, Mirs1, I totally agree: all I care about is to see them mutually happy with whatever arrangement works for them, and the ending seemed to imply that. I said it many times, but it makes no sense to put them through that whole torture of a breakup only to then revert back to Amy pressing for more and Sheldon digging his heels, especially knowing he has a ring stacked away somewhere. The important thing to me is to see in a more explicit fashion that even if Sheldon might not be too phased by sex per se, he does feel the stirrings of desire and attraction for Amy (like they have hinted at many times in the past) and need to connect with her on that level on occasion, simply because it comes across as rather ugly otherwise, especially considering how often they made jokes about Amy's unconventional looks and her strong attraction to Sheldon. It would be like an unrequited love, and nobody wants to see that, I hope. I honestly don't think that's where they're going to go with this, I think especially that quote by Molaro saying you don't want to make that kind of joke when it comes to something so intimate suggests that this is not an option for their sex life, whatever that might look like. And in a sense I think it's good that they left some questions open following their first time, so we have more stuff to look forward to, unlike with other couples who have sex once and then that's it. Again, whether they want to do it once a year, once a month, or once a week, it's all good with me as long as it's good with BOTH of them. And, honestly, if every time it's a 2-3 hours affair, even if they do it once a month it's like the same amount as everyone else put together in the end  

[mirs1]

38 minutes ago, koops said:

Again, my point isn't even about sex per se. Sheldon could very well be asexual (HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, before people start piling on me  ) but that doesn't mean that he can't be moved on an emotional level by his closeness to Amy during that moment, since their consummation wasn't about sex per se, but about a culmination of years of emotional closeness. To make it all about sex, IMO, is cheapening the moment, and the cut cuddle/interviews/jokes at the end kind of bothered me for that reason. Not to mention, I don't think they cut the cuddle because they don't want to change Sheldon too much, because if they worry about him being too sappy and sweet they wouldn't have written an entire episode about him swooning over a song that reminds him of Amy to then show up at her door, pour his heart out, and make out with her for an hour. LOL!  

However, I do agree there's tons of different interpretations to that scene and that there's nothing to conclusively indicate anything, really. Like Musickat said, her take on the scene is very different from the one I had. And I think it's just as valid. I think they left it just on the edge where they can either move forward with a more sexual Sheldon or backtrack, depending on how it was all received. Sheldon said he enjoyed it more than he expected (which is good), and that he wants to do it again (which is also good), and that leaves the door open for them to move forward with him in that direction if they want to. At the same time, had this been badly received or something, it wouldn't have shot Sheldon out of a cannon to a place of no return. I also kind of get the feeling that there's some very strong opinions on this and to have all writers on the same page about it is tough, so they have to tread slowly and take it one step at a time.

Ultimately, Mirs1, I totally agree: all I care about is to see them mutually happy with whatever arrangement works for them, and the ending seemed to imply that. I said it many times, but it makes no sense to put them through that whole torture of a breakup only to then revert back to Amy pressing for more and Sheldon digging his heels, especially knowing he has a ring stacked away somewhere. The important thing to me is to see in a more explicit fashion that even if Sheldon might not be too phased by sex per se, he does feel the stirrings of desire and attraction for Amy (like they have hinted at many times in the past) and need to connect with her on that level on occasion, simply because it comes across as rather ugly otherwise, especially considering how often they made jokes about Amy's unconventional looks and her strong attraction to Sheldon. It would be like an unrequited love, and nobody wants to see that, I hope. I honestly don't think that's where they're going to go with this, I think especially that quote by Molaro saying you don't want to make that kind of joke when it comes to something so intimate suggests that this is not an option for their sex life, whatever that might look like. And in a sense I think it's good that they left some questions open following their first time, so we have more stuff to look forward to, unlike with other couples who have sex once and then that's it. Again, whether they want to do it once a year, once a month, or once a week, it's all good with me as long as it's good with BOTH of them. And, honestly, if every time it's a 2-3 hours affair, even if they do it once a month it's like the same amount as everyone else put together in the end  

I don't think either this is they will go this way; it was not the way they chose to go with any of their milestones: like for example kissing. It was Sheldon who initiated it, then it was implied it was merged in their lives in a natural way and in 8.24, when we saw them kissing again, Sheldon was obviously enjoying it, even with all the Flash stuff in it, and there's no need to address or comment the kisses in 9.10 and 9.11, since everybody on this board has passed so many hours in contemplating them, at least, I did!!! I don't think they will take the magic that was the first bed scene back, they just want, as you said, find a way to express it that sounds right with the character(s) (hopefully, with both characters, but of course their main problem is and will always be Sheldon). They did a really good job this time, IMO, I'm among those people who says that it is the best episode ever, and I've always thought "The pants alternative" (my now second best episode ever...) was peerless! So, I really hope they will do a good job whenever they decide to address this topic again. 

Edited December 19, 2015 by mirs1

[jlove]

7 hours ago, Shamyyes said:

So much to adore in this whole episode but one of my favorites is when he asks if she is cold and she says she's nervous when he asks "Why?"  I just love how he says that like why would you be nervous with me. Love it!

I know, he's is honestly surprised she is nervous and he has to ask "Why?"  It is sooooo sweet and it clearly says "I'm not nervous at all."  Awwwww...

[Listgirl]

Post coitus Sheldon debate: I'm ok with the scene apart from the lack of mussed up hair on Sheldon's part which was a bit annoying. They were drawing direct parallels with the guys so everyone was paralysed. The gag wouldn't work if they moved.

I'm sympathetic to those who need to see the cuddle however we have had lots of confirmation regarding the emotional connection between Shamy in 9.10 and 9.11  and that scene seemed in the final cut to be mainly about realised expectations for Shamy and the film goers so adding the cuddle was possibly playing just too sweet at that point in the episode with the gag in full swing.  They were obviously in two minds tho' as it was taped. 

The handholding was super cute and the type of physical contact they are most familiar and comfortable with. They could have been lying there in a state of shock each clutching the sheets to their own chests. However they were touching, Sheldon's eyelids were drooping gorgeously and his accent had slipped into the Texan drawl which emphasised his own blissed out state to go with Amy's. In that moment it was about the act itself and their response to it not about showing again how in love they are. Also there was a hint of Sheldon's undoubted prowess, I thought, due to the calm and satisfied state of him a kind of 'yep I nailed that' relief. No pun intended.  

I suppose the interesting question is if there was no cuddle taped would we still be missing it? 

[camelliayao]

34 minutes ago, koops said:

Ultimately, Mirs1, I totally agree: all I care about is to see them mutually happy with whatever arrangement works for them, and the ending seemed to imply that. I said it many times, but it makes no sense to put them through that whole torture of a breakup only to then revert back to Amy pressing for more and Sheldon digging his heels, especially knowing he has a ring stacked away somewhere.

The point is, because Amy's a supporting character and we rarely see the story from her point of view (she doesn't even have enough screen time). I'm having a hard time believing they're mutually happy. Sheldon is happy, that I can tell.

Maybe she's happy in the show but that's just what the writers want to show us. Like does she know her boyfriend may never have interests in sex but only does it for her? Does she know his boyfriend may never find her or anyone physically attractive? Is she Ok with never being desired? If Dave wasn't Sheldon's fan, would the Dave&Amy thing work? If she has more options, would she be happier or she would still run back to Sheldon the first chance she gets? We. Don't. Know. As long as she and Sheldon are still together, we assume she's fine and happy with everything.

I'm not saying she's not happy. I just wish the writers could show us more. And I have to say with all the build-ups in previous seasons about how Amy desires Sheldon, I really don't see how this "Sheldon doesn't want sex per se, he does it for Amy" thing would work for both of them. But I guess at the end of the day the writers will find a way to make them happy, or at least a way to make Sheldon happy.

[Musickat18]

7 minutes ago, Listgirl said:

The handholding was super cute and the type of physical contact they are most familiar and comfortable with. They could have been lying there in a state of shock each clutching the sheets to their own chests. However they were touching, Sheldon's eyelids were drooping gorgeously and his accent had slipped into the Texan drawl which emphasised his own blissed out state to go with Amy's. In that moment it was about the act itself and their response to it not about showing again how in love they are. Also there was a hint of Sheldon's undoubted prowess, I thought, due to the calm and satisfied state of him a kind of 'yep I nailed that' relief. No pun intended.  

Love. The bold part sort of made me zone out for a moment. 

[nickelette424]

The most important thing for me when it comes to Sheldon in this episode is that he seemed to be so at peace with all of it.   Especially from the moment Amy walked into the bedroom.   This is a guy who worries about and over thinks everything.   His calm speaks so loudly to me,  before and after sex.   I love that part of his personality.   When all worries and fears cease to exist.  When thoughts and analysis have brought him to a conclusion,  Sheldon suddenly becomes the most grounded and mature person in the room.   The crazy disappears. And it is something that we get to see very rarely, but I've seen it when he talks about physics without trying to prove his superiority,  but just to express his knowledge and love for the subject.   And we've seen it time or two with Amy.  Anyway,  all that to say,  that's what I saw in the post coital scene.  Not indifference.   I saw calm and sweet and confident happiness.  And for someone who is often dominated by fear and worry that says so much about his emotional state at that moment. 

Also, about the parallels between the two plots, the parallel between Sheldon and Wil didn't cheapen things for me because they came to those thoughts from different places and different intentions.  Their words may have mirrored each other,  but their level of importance was not the same.  This meant so much to Sheldon while Wil couldn't have given a damn either way. 

 

[Musickat18]

11 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

 

I'm not saying she's not happy. I just wish the writers could show us more. And I have to say with all the build-ups in previous seasons about how Amy desires Sheldon, I really don't see how this "Sheldon doesn't want sex per se, he does it for Amy" thing would work for both of them. But I guess at the end of the day the writers will find a way to make them happy, or at least a way to make Sheldon happy.

Show us more than Amy thoroughly disheveled and out of breath?

[FortCozyMcBlanket]

27 minutes ago, koops said:

Again, my point isn't even about sex per se. Sheldon could very well be asexual (HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, before people start piling on me  ) but that doesn't mean that he can't be moved on an emotional level by his closeness to Amy during that moment, since their consummation wasn't about sex per se, but about a culmination of years of emotional closeness. To make it all about sex, IMO, is cheapening the moment, and the cut cuddle/interviews/jokes at the end kind of bothered me for that reason. Not to mention, I don't think they cut the cuddle because they don't want to change Sheldon too much, because if they worry about him being too sappy and sweet they wouldn't have written an entire episode about him swooning over a song that reminds him of Amy to then show up at her door, pour his heart out, and make out with her for an hour. LOL!  

However, I do agree there's tons of different interpretations to that scene and that there's nothing to conclusively indicate anything, really. Like Musickat said, her take on the scene is very different from the one I had. And I think it's just as valid. I think they left it just on the edge where they can either move forward with a more sexual Sheldon or backtrack, depending on how it was all received. Sheldon said he enjoyed it more than he expected (which is good), and that he wants to do it again (which is also good), and that leaves the door open for them to move forward with him in that direction if they want to. At the same time, had this been badly received or something, it wouldn't have shot Sheldon out of a cannon to a place of no return. I also kind of get the feeling that there's some very strong opinions on this and to have all writers on the same page about it is tough, so they have to tread slowly and take it one step at a time.

Ultimately, Mirs1, I totally agree: all I care about is to see them mutually happy with whatever arrangement works for them, and the ending seemed to imply that. I said it many times, but it makes no sense to put them through that whole torture of a breakup only to then revert back to Amy pressing for more and Sheldon digging his heels, especially knowing he has a ring stacked away somewhere. The important thing to me is to see in a more explicit fashion that even if Sheldon might not be too phased by sex per se, he does feel the stirrings of desire and attraction for Amy (like they have hinted at many times in the past) and need to connect with her on that level on occasion, simply because it comes across as rather ugly otherwise, especially considering how often they made jokes about Amy's unconventional looks and her strong attraction to Sheldon. It would be like an unrequited love, and nobody wants to see that, I hope. I honestly don't think that's where they're going to go with this, I think especially that quote by Molaro saying you don't want to make that kind of joke when it comes to something so intimate suggests that this is not an option for their sex life, whatever that might look like. And in a sense I think it's good that they left some questions open following their first time, so we have more stuff to look forward to, unlike with other couples who have sex once and then that's it. Again, whether they want to do it once a year, once a month, or once a week, it's all good with me as long as it's good with BOTH of them. And, honestly, if every time it's a 2-3 hours affair, even if they do it once a month it's like the same amount as everyone else put together in the end  

I wholeheartedly agree that they tried to make this episode great for everyone from the most casual viewer and/or old school Sheldon fan to the hardcore shippers, and in doing so they tried to keep the sex story as neutral as possible. And they definitely depended on the viewers' response to get an idea of their range of possibilities for future Shamy storylines. 

the second bolded part: this is my worst nightmare for this ship... thankfully I don't see this happening because 1) the episode response was very positive and 2) they gave Shamy (Sheldon in particular) so much character growth since the breakup, and they love this ship so much that they aren't going to want to revert back to Amy left wanting and Sheldon finding sex off-putting again, even if they believe there's comedy in that. Honestly that would be such a punch in the gut. I know they won't write Sheldon as a horndog (a choice I agree with) but it would be a treat for us shippers to see more (subtle) balanced romantic gestures between Sheldon and Amy. And as I think pretty much everyone has said, my biggest wishes for Shamy are for them both to feel loved and desired, and for them both to be happy and on the same page.

The reason I don't want Sheldon to come off as asexual is because TPTB have made it clear that Amy needs to feel physically/sexually desired on more than just a "because I love you" level, and it would be changing Amy's character to "settle" for Sheldon not having that desire. And yes, I can see why many people feel that Sheldon's character is being "changed" here now that he has had sex with Amy (the asexual community has been rather vocal about their dissatisfaction in losing asexual representation on the show), but I see it more as growth as opposed to "change" because I never saw him as asexual; I saw him as inexperienced and uninterested up until he met the right one... and now he has  Amy didn't "cure" his asexuality because I don't believe he ever was, I believe he was just immature... he grew up very fast on an intellectual level so he is socially and emotionally stunted, and I think the writers were very smart in saying Sheldon's "force" is "awakening" (especially with its tie-in to Star Wars!) 

But yeah, that's my 2 cents and I don't want to open back up the sexuality argument; I just wanted to say why I believe he isn't and why I believe it's very limiting to Shamy if he is -- and the writers will not label him either way, so it's a moot argument  

[jlove]

Is anyone else in love with the way Sheldon's legs are constantly moving from the time Amy comes in?  It doesn't seem that he's nervous, given his surprise at her own nervousness, so what is it?  Anticipation?  The way he's looking at her coupled with his incessant movements kills me.  And yes, watching it on .25 on YouTube is amazing, thank you to I think it was Jenafan who suggested that.  From the moment she gets into bed he's attentively watching, her, waiting for her to look at him and of course she's fidgeting with the blankets, staring straight ahead, etc.  He even looks her up and down again like he did when she came in the door.  Especially the way he looks at her for about 5 seconds before the "Hello" in bed makes my knees go a little weak.

He's quite calm throught this whole thing, but the looks combined with his inability to sit still make me think someone is just a *bit* excited this is actually happening.  

Edited December 19, 2015 by jlove

[camelliayao]

8 minutes ago, Musickat18 said:

Show us more than Amy thoroughly disheveled and out of breath?

Show us more than Amy oblivious of the reason why Sheldon wants to have sex with her, show us more than Amy with no other choice from the beginning to the end, show us more than Amy totally unware of her boyfriend may be asexual and may never have interests in sex.

Edited December 19, 2015 by camelliayao

[nickelette424]

2 minutes ago, jlove said:

Is anyone else in love with the way Sheldon's legs are constantly moving from the time Amy comes in?  It doesn't seem that he's nervous, given his surprise at her own nervousness, so what is it?  Anticipation?  The way he's looking at her coupled with his incessant movements kills me.  And yes, watching it on .25 on YouTube is amazing, thank you to I think it was Jenafan who suggested that.  From the moment she gets into bed he's attentively watching, her, waiting for her to look at him and of course she's fidgeting with the blankets, staring straight ahead, etc.  He even looks her up and down again like he did when she came in the door.  Especially the way he looks at her for about 5 seconds before the "Hello" in bed makes my knees go a little week.

He's quite calm throught this whole thing, but the looks combined with his inability to sit still make me think someone is just a *bit* excited this is actually happening.  

This!!!!!  It's not in your face,  but there is a subtle hint of excitement and giddiness that is so adorable.   

I don't do gifs,  but if someone could gif that moment between settling into bed and his second "hello", I would be so happy. 

[Musickat18]

4 minutes ago, FortCozyMcBlanket said:

The reason I don't want Sheldon to come off as asexual is because TPTB have made it clear that Amy needs to feel physically/sexually desired on more than just a "because I love you" level, and it would be changing Amy's character to "settle" for Sheldon not having that desire. And yes, I can see why many people feel that Sheldon's character is being "changed" here now that he has had sex with Amy (the asexual community has been rather vocal about their dissatisfaction in losing asexual representation on the show), but I see it more as growth as opposed to "change" because I never saw him as asexual; I saw him as inexperienced and uninterested up until he met the right one... and now he has  Amy didn't "cure" his asexuality because I don't believe he ever was, I believe he was just immature... he grew up very fast on an intellectual level so he is socially and emotionally stunted, and I think the writers were very smart in saying Sheldon's "force" is "awakening" (especially with its tie-in to Star Wars!) 

Agree with this to an extent, but also they made it clear in the aquarium episode that Amy missed Sheldon. She tried out the traditional romance thing and it fell very flat. I think when she told him she was ready to be his girlfriend again, she had come to terms with the fact that sex wasn't the end all be all of their relationship. She missed the quirky games and spending time together. 

This is also what puts the cherry on top of the whipped cream for me with 9x11. Amy of course still wanted those things, but she didn't have the same tapping-her-foot expectation about it. And yet Sheldon still wanted to show her how much she meant to him and how he prioritized her in his life. The reason she broke it off was because she didn't feel like she was a priority. So for Sheldon to give up the premiere of Star Wars to not just be with her, but to give her the intimacy she wants (which honestly I think was the bigger issue for her than the actual sex act itself) was extremely meaningful for her.

2 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Show us more than Amy oblivious of the reason why Sheldon wants to have sex with her, show us more than Amy with no other choice from the beginning to the end, show us more than Amy totally unware of her boyfriend may be asexual and may never have interests in sex.

I sort of said this above, but I don't think she's oblivious about Sheldon's reasons for having sex with her. She would have to be really dense not to get the significance of him not just giving up Star Wars to spend time with her, but also choosing to give her exactly the right present on her birthday. She knows that he understands how much she wants sex. Why else would he have been thinking about doing that for her on her birthday specifically? I mean, sure this is all conjecture for us and open to interpretation, but I do think the writers left some stuff up to be read between the lines.

[MJistheBOMB]

3 hours ago, Listgirl said:

Post coitus Sheldon debate: I'm ok with the scene apart from the lack of mussed up hair on Sheldon's part which was a bit annoying. They were drawing direct parallels with the guys so everyone was paralysed. The gag wouldn't work if they moved.

I'm sympathetic to those who need to see the cuddle however we have had lots of confirmation regarding the emotional connection between Shamy in 9.10 and 9.11  and that scene seemed in the final cut to be mainly about realised expectations for Shamy and the film goers so adding the cuddle was possibly playing just too sweet at that point in the episode with the gag in full swing.  They were obviously in two minds tho' as it was taped. 

The handholding was super cute and the type of physical contact they are most familiar and comfortable with. They could have been lying there in a state of shock each clutching the sheets to their own chests. However they were touching, Sheldon's eyelids were drooping gorgeously and his accent had slipped into the Texan drawl which emphasised his own blissed out state to go with Amy's. In that moment it was about the act itself and their response to it not about showing again how in love they are. Also there was a hint of Sheldon's undoubted prowess, I thought, due to the calm and satisfied state of him a kind of 'yep I nailed that' relief. No pun intended.  

I suppose the interesting question is if there was no cuddle taped would we still be missing it? 

Yes, that's how I saw it. It would make sense for Sheldon, who excels at everything (except for getting over Amy ;-)), to give it to her so well that it nearly looks like he didn't give it to her at all. LOL! The way Amy's hair looked, there was DEFINITELY a lot of effort put in by Sheldon. 

Everything was just perfect and I wouldn't expect a man who had issues with physical intimacy for so many years to behave anything other than how Sheldon did.  He went into it not knowing how he'd feel about it afterwards but as it turned out, he enjoyed it. He had a pleased look on his face and when Amy said, "Me too!...", that smile on his face got just a tad bit bigger and that speaks volumes. 

Asexual, demisexual, WHATEVER we feel the need to label him, he and Amy are going to navigate through everything just fine like they always have.

I can't wait to see how things will play out now that the sexual component has been added into their relationship. 

Great job, show creators, for a magical episode! Still in Shamy heaven.

Edited December 19, 2015 by MJistheBOMB

[jlove]

20 minutes ago, nickelette424 said:

The most important thing for me when it comes to Sheldon in this episode is that he seemed to be so at peace with all of it.   Especially from the moment Amy walked into the bedroom.   This is a guy who worries about and over thinks everything.   His calm speaks so loudly to me,  before and after sex.   I love that part of his personality.   When all worries and fears cease to exist.  When thoughts and analysis have brought him to a conclusion,  Sheldon suddenly becomes the most grounded and mature person in the room.   The crazy disappears. And it is something that we get to see very rarely, but I've seen it when he talks about physics without trying to prove his superiority,  but just to express his knowledge and love for the subject.   And we've seen it time or two with Amy.  Anyway,  all that to say,  that's what I saw in the post coital scene.  Not indifference.   I saw calm and sweet and confident happiness.  And for someone who is often dominated by fear and worry that says so much about his emotional state at that moment. 

Also, about the parallels between the two plots, the parallel between Sheldon and Wil didn't cheapen things for me because they came to those thoughts from different places and different intentions.  Their words may have mirrored each other,  but their level of importance was not the same.  This meant so much to Sheldon while Wil couldn't have given a damn either way. 

 

I agree.  Afterwards he is obviously happy.  His smile is permanently there on his face, and gets bigger when Amy says "Me too!"  And we get more of that delightful twang when he ways he enjoyed it more than he thought he would.  Mmmm...

[koops]

7 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

The point is, because Amy's a supporting character and we rarely see the story from her point of view (she doesn't even have enough screen time). I'm having a hard time believing they're mutually happy. Sheldon is happy, that I can tell.

Maybe she's happy in the show but that's just what the writers want to show us. Like does she know her boyfriend may never have interests in sex but only does it for her? Does she know his boyfriend may never find her or anyone physically attractive? Is she Ok with never being desired? If Dave wasn't Sheldon's fan, would the Dave&Amy thing work? If she has more options, would she be happier or she would still run back to Sheldon the first chance she gets? We. Don't. Know. As long as she and Sheldon are still together, we assume she's fine and happy with everything.

I'm not saying she's not happy. I just wish the writers could show us more. And I have to say with all the build-ups in previous seasons about how Amy desires Sheldon, I really don't see how this "Sheldon doesn't want sex per se, he does it for Amy" thing would work for both of them. But I guess at the end of the day the writers will find a way to make them happy, or at least a way to make Sheldon happy.

Amy *in the show* is the only Amy there is. If Amy *in the show* is happy, Amy is happy. If the writers want to show us an unsatisfied Amy, they do. They have done so in the past. The relationship might not look like the one we would go for, but what's important is that it's portrayed as one that the characters are shown to be happy with. We know Amy has been wanting for that physical connection with Sheldon for a long time now, and that she wanted him to make her a priority like she does for him. He's done that. Who's to know how Amy will come out of this. For all we know, she might be fairly content now that she has tried it. She might be someone who gets her dose of sex and then happily go about her way for a while. I never felt sex, while something she wanted to have with Sheldon, was a priority for her, or she wouldn't have lasted with Sheldon for all these years. And, more importantly, she wouldn't have gone back to him in Aquarium, before he even said anything at all about sex, or wanting to marry her. If she felt that sex was such a non-negotiable part of their relationship, she wouldn't have gone back to Sheldon. Dave was the rebound, it's not Sheldon who's the rebound. And Amy wanted much more from Sheldon than just sex. So, post-coital Amy is as much a guess as post-coital Sheldon at this stage.

And, really, this is all just speculation. First of all, there's nothing yet to suggest that Sheldon doesn't find her attractive or doesn't desire her. Not to get technical, but Sheldon has 1) germ/touch phobias and 2) low interest in sex as it is. While for a regular guy, maybe they can even get through having sex with someone they're not attracted to by thinking about something else that turns them on, but that's obviously not an option for Sheldon. So the fact that he slept with her and did so for 2 hours and pretty well, to me, is very unlikely if he's not into her sexually. Also, while it is the case for most people, attraction towards one's partner doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with lust for sex, the act. Sheldon might be attracted to her but prefer to express his attraction physically in other ways, like kissing her or what have you, than having sex. They can work out an intimacy that works for them, but it doesn't necessarily require either of them to become horndogs for the other. If you think about it, it's not much different from people preferring different types of sexual activity and finding a common ground that works for both. I think this kind of communication is fairly essential for a healthy relationship, and Shamy can definitely pull it off.

But, ultimately, I think the issue is moot. I don't feel like the writers will go down a path where Amy craves sex every day of the week and Sheldon refuses and dismisses her, or he reluctantly acquiesces to it. They spent such a long time constructing this delicate relationship, that I doubt they would suddenly turn to such mean and distasteful jokes. My guess is that they will find some middle-ground where they incorporate a mutually satisfying sex-life in their relationship, but it still won't play as huge a role for them as it does for the other couples. They will most likely change both characters slightly to meet each other halfway: Sheldon being slightly more sexually demonstrative, and Amy being more mellow in her desire for it once it becomes a part of their relationship.

[Ranger Rosa]

I died at thursday, remained that way at friday and resurrected at saturday. I'm almost a Messiah, except for the fact that Shamy killed me, not the Romans! 

I really would love to make comments about this episode, but I can't. I'm staring my keyboard for 20 minutes, waiting for something inspiring to hit me but nothing happens. It's so good that have nothing to say. Nothing will never be enough to translate how much I loved every single thing from this episode.

I'm in peace.

[Stephen Hawking]

1 hour ago, Listgirl said:

Post coitus Sheldon debate: I'm ok with the scene apart from the lack of mussed up hair on Sheldon's part which was a bit annoying.

Sheldon has very short hair, so it's not likely to get "mussed up" very much.

By comparison, Amy's hair is long, so it would be inclined to get disturbed.

[Listgirl]

57 minutes ago, FortCozyMcBlanket said:

I wholeheartedly agree that they tried to make this episode great for everyone from the most casual viewer and/or old school Sheldon fan to the hardcore shippers, and in doing so they tried to keep the sex story as neutral as possible. And they definitely depended on the viewers' response to get an idea of their range of possibilities for future Shamy storylines. 

the second bolded part: this is my worst nightmare for this ship... thankfully I don't see this happening because 1) the episode response was very positive and 2) they gave Shamy (Sheldon in particular) so much character growth since the breakup, and they love this ship so much that they aren't going to want to revert back to Amy left wanting and Sheldon finding sex off-putting again, even if they believe there's comedy in that. Honestly that would be such a punch in the gut. I know they won't write Sheldon as a horndog (a choice I agree with) but it would be a treat for us shippers to see more (subtle) balanced romantic gestures between Sheldon and Amy. And as I think pretty much everyone has said, my biggest wishes for Shamy are for them both to feel loved and desired, and for them both to be happy and on the same page.

The reason I don't want Sheldon to come off as asexual is because TPTB have made it clear that Amy needs to feel physically/sexually desired on more than just a "because I love you" level, and it would be changing Amy's character to "settle" for Sheldon not having that desire. And yes, I can see why many people feel that Sheldon's character is being "changed" here now that he has had sex with Amy (the asexual community has been rather vocal about their dissatisfaction in losing asexual representation on the show), but I see it more as growth as opposed to "change" because I never saw him as asexual; I saw him as inexperienced and uninterested up until he met the right one... and now he has  Amy didn't "cure" his asexuality because I don't believe he ever was, I believe he was just immature... he grew up very fast on an intellectual level so he is socially and emotionally stunted, and I think the writers were very smart in saying Sheldon's "force" is "awakening" (especially with its tie-in to Star Wars!) 

But yeah, that's my 2 cents and I don't want to open back up the sexuality argument; I just wanted to say why I believe he isn't and why I believe it's very limiting to Shamy if he is -- and the writers will not label him either way, so it's a moot argument  

This is what I would have written if I wasn't a) a scientist by education and therefore in my case useless at expressing myself and  distracted with the strictly come dancing final. Well said. 

Edited December 19, 2015 by Listgirl

[MJistheBOMB]

BTW, I worked from 4 to midnight yesterday, got home and watched Shamy gifs on Tumblr until pass 4 this morning....and fought myself to stay awake to make it happen. Send help.

[Soopysue]

1 hour ago, Listgirl said:

Post coitus Sheldon debate: I'm ok with the scene apart from the lack of mussed up hair on Sheldon's part which was a bit annoying. They were drawing direct parallels with the guys so everyone was paralysed. The gag wouldn't work if they moved.

I'm sympathetic to those who need to see the cuddle however we have had lots of confirmation regarding the emotional connection between Shamy in 9.10 and 9.11  and that scene seemed in the final cut to be mainly about realised expectations for Shamy and the film goers so adding the cuddle was possibly playing just too sweet at that point in the episode with the gag in full swing.  They were obviously in two minds tho' as it was taped. 

The handholding was super cute and the type of physical contact they are most familiar and comfortable with. They could have been lying there in a state of shock each clutching the sheets to their own chests. However they were touching, Sheldon's eyelids were drooping gorgeously and his accent had slipped into the Texan drawl which emphasised his own blissed out state to go with Amy's. In that moment it was about the act itself and their response to it not about showing again how in love they are. Also there was a hint of Sheldon's undoubted prowess, I thought, due to the calm and satisfied state of him a kind of 'yep I nailed that' relief. No pun intended.  

I suppose the interesting question is if there was no cuddle taped would we still be missing it? 

Agree 100%  

1 hour ago, jlove said:

Is anyone else in love with the way Sheldon's legs are constantly moving from the time Amy comes in?  It doesn't seem that he's nervous, given his surprise at her own nervousness, so what is it?  Anticipation?  The way he's looking at her coupled with his incessant movements kills me.  And yes, watching it on .25 on YouTube is amazing, thank you to I think it was Jenafan who suggested that.  From the moment she gets into bed he's attentively watching, her, waiting for her to look at him and of course she's fidgeting with the blankets, staring straight ahead, etc.  He even looks her up and down again like he did when she came in the door.  Especially the way he looks at her for about 5 seconds before the "Hello" in bed makes my knees go a little weak.

He's quite calm throught this whole thing, but the looks combined with his inability to sit still make me think someone is just a *bit* excited this is actually happening.  

Yes this , so this  

[Ranger Rosa]

Hey, I remember that a few time ago someone invented a game about the order of ocurrence of shamy events at the episodes (make-up, coitus and engagement). Of course, they're not engaged yet (duh!) but who was right about the make up? And about the coitus?