Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9

[Soopysue]

58 minutes ago, MJistheBOMB said:

Yes, that's how I saw it. It would make sense for Sheldon, who excels at everything (except for getting over Amy ;-)), to give to it her so well that it nearly looks like he didn't give it to her at all. LOL! The way Amy's hair looked, there was DEFINITELY a lot of effort put in by Sheldon. 

Everything was just perfect and I wouldn't expect a man who had issues with physical intimacy for so many years to behave anything other than how Sheldon did.  He went into it not knowing how he'd feel about it afterwards but as it turned out, he enjoyed it. He had a pleased look on his face and when Amy said, "Me too!...", that smile on his face got just a tad bit bigger and that speaks volumes. 

Asexual, demisexual, WHATEVER we feel the need to label him, he and Amy are going to navigate through everything just fine like they always have.

I can't wait to see how things will play out now that the sexual component has been added into their relationship. 

Great job, show creators, for a magical episode! Still in Shamy heaven.

And this , so much this  x

[jenafan]

59 minutes ago, jlove said:

Is anyone else in love with the way Sheldon's legs are constantly moving from the time Amy comes in?  It doesn't seem that he's nervous, given his surprise at her own nervousness, so what is it?  Anticipation?  The way he's looking at her coupled with his incessant movements kills me.  And yes, watching it on .25 on YouTube is amazing, thank you to I think it was Jenafan who suggested that.  From the moment she gets into bed he's attentively watching, her, waiting for her to look at him and of course she's fidgeting with the blankets, staring straight ahead, etc.  He even looks her up and down again like he did when she came in the door.  Especially the way he looks at her for about 5 seconds before the "Hello" in bed makes my knees go a little week.

He's quite calm throught this whole thing, but the looks combined with his inability to sit still make me think someone is just a *bit* excited this is actually happening.  

The bold part is what sold me on my misgivings upon initial viewing.   Sheldon so wanted this to happen.  He was just overly anxious until the moment arrived.   I think his anxiousness turned into excitement once he knew for sure that he had her consent and she really wanted to do it with him as much as he wanted to do it with her.

Perhaps his being overwhelmed wasn't the sex itself, but maybe it was actually getting into the bedroom.   If we recall, he was all in with Amy on the couch on their anniversary, until he got overwhelmed and made the flash statement.  He tried to reel it back in with the "anyway," but it was too late.   He had already messed up, and she broke up with him.

So, maybe it wasn't the act of sex itself that worried him as much as he was more afraid of doing and saying something that would mess everything up and cause Amy to change her mind about wanting to sleep with him.   As he told PP, he understood the mechanics.   He knows what to do, but he didn't know what it would be like for her.

When Sheldon walked into that apartment, his responses were guarded.   Amy offered to remove the candles and turn the music off, but instead of creating conflict, he used her birthday as a means to excuse himself from insisting on his way.  He didn't insist that they have dinner, before presents.  When Amy told him she knew what his gift was, he didn't chastise her or question how she found out.   To the casual audience his comment "I see," would have been a prefix to an excuse to bow out.   No, he confirmed that, "yes" that was his gift and wanted to know if it was okay.   True to Sheldon, he interrupted briefly to pull out the contract, but Amy's kiss quickly diverted him, and he didn't give it another thought.  Instead, he melted into her content with the type of consent she offered instead.

We don't know how long Amy kept Sheldon waiting in her room.   However, I think at the point that he was actually in her bed with the covers on, and she showed up in the room dressed in her nightgown suggesting that she get under the covers with him, he knew then it was a done deal.   He felt safe to show his excitement at this point because everything was working out the way he had hoped.

[Soopysue]

2 minutes ago, jenafan said:

The bold part is what sold me on my misgivings upon initial viewing.   Sheldon so wanted this to happen.  He was just overly anxious until the moment arrived.   I think his anxiousness turned into excitement once he knew for sure that he had her consent and she really wanted to do it with him as much as he wanted to do it with her.

Perhaps his being overwhelmed wasn't the sex itself, but maybe it was actually getting into the bedroom.   If we recall, he was all in with Amy on the couch on their anniversary, until he got overwhelmed and made the flash statement.  He tried to reel it back in with the "anyway," but it was too late.   He had already messed up, and she broke up with him.

So, maybe it wasn't the act of sex itself that worried him as much as he was more afraid of doing and saying something that would mess everything up and cause Amy to change her mind about wanting to sleep with him.   As he told PP, he understood the mechanics.   He knows what to do, but he didn't know what it would be like for her.

When Sheldon walked into that apartment, his responses were guarded.   Amy offered to remove the candles and turn the music off, but instead of creating conflict, he used her birthday as a means to excuse himself from insisting on his way.  He didn't insist that they have dinner, before presents.  When Amy told him she knew what his gift was, he didn't chastise her or question how she found out.   To the casual audience his comment "I see," would have been a prefix to an excuse to bow out.   No, he confirmed that, "yes" that was his gift and wanted to know if it was okay.   True to Sheldon, he interrupted briefly to pull out the contract, but Amy's kiss quickly diverted him, and he didn't give it another thought.  Instead, he melted into her content with the type of consent she offered instead.

We don't know how long Amy kept Sheldon waiting in her room.   However, I think at the point that he was actually in her bed with the covers on, and she showed up in the room dressed in her nightgown suggesting that she get under the covers with him, he knew then it was a done deal.   He felt safe to show his excitement at this point because everything was working out the way he had hoped.

Very insightful , some things here i hadn't thought about , very true jena, thank you  

[koops]

8 minutes ago, jenafan said:

The bold part is what sold me on my misgivings upon initial viewing.   Sheldon so wanted this to happen.  He was just overly anxious until the moment arrived.   I think his anxiousness turned into excitement once he knew for sure that he had her consent and she really wanted to do it with him as much as he wanted to do it with her.

Perhaps his being overwhelmed wasn't the sex itself, but maybe it was actually getting into the bedroom.   If we recall, he was all in with Amy on the couch on their anniversary, until he got overwhelmed and made the flash statement.  He tried to reel it back in with the "anyway," but it was too late.   He had already messed up, and she broke up with him.

So, maybe it wasn't the act of sex itself that worried him as much as he was more afraid of doing and saying something that would mess everything up and cause Amy to change her mind about wanting to sleep with him.   As he told PP, he understood the mechanics.   He knows what to do, but he didn't know what it would be like for her.

When Sheldon walked into that apartment, his responses were guarded.   Amy offered to remove the candles and turn the music off, but instead of creating conflict, he used her birthday as a means to excuse himself from insisting on his way.  He didn't insist that they have dinner, before presents.  When Amy told him she knew what his gift was, he didn't chastise her or question how she found out.   To the casual audience his comment "I see," would have been a prefix to an excuse to bow out.   No, he confirmed that, "yes" that was his gift and wanted to know if it was okay.   True to Sheldon, he interrupted briefly to pull out the contract, but Amy's kiss quickly diverted him, and he didn't give it another thought.  Instead, he melted into her content with the type of consent she offered instead.

We don't know how long Amy kept Sheldon waiting in her room.   However, I think at the point that he was actually in her bed with the covers on, and she showed up in the room dressed in her nightgown suggesting that she get under the covers with him, he knew then it was a done deal.   He felt safe to show his excitement at this point because everything was working out the way he had hoped.

I think the overwhelmed refers to his issues with touch/fluids/germs. He's always brought it up as one of the problems why he had trouble being intimate with her, so I can see that that's what was going through his mind. Whether he would get freaked out halfway through and ruin everything. I think Jim said that in one of his pre-airing interviews. But I agree that eventually the anticipation/excitement took over once she gave consent and walked into that room and all his worries went out of the window. The way he's excitedly fidgeting, smiling and looking at her until he realizes she's shaking and won't look at him is adorable. Cod, that scene is so good.

[April]

7 hours ago, EvilStewie said:

I don't know who made this video, but its awesome!! Thought I'd share! 

https://youtu.be/WnmVlpBbDoo

OMG Thank you! I saw that on tumblr the other day but couldn't find it again for some reason. I hate it when that happens. lol

[MJistheBOMB]

1 hour ago, Ranger Rosa said:

Hey, I remember that a few time ago someone invented a game about the order of ocurrence of shamy events at the episodes (make-up, coitus and engagement). Of course, they're not engaged yet (duh!) but who was right about the make up? And about the coitus?

Let's just say I failed at my own game. LOL.

[jlove]

23 minutes ago, Ranger Rosa said:

I was watching the episode (subtitled, finally!) and the dirty me can't stop wondering if while waiting for her, Sheldon was
 

Oh I doubt it.  And I have the feeling it was quite a while in their hours of exploration before they even got to that point.

[FortCozyMcBlanket]

2 hours ago, jenafan said:

The bold part is what sold me on my misgivings upon initial viewing.   Sheldon so wanted this to happen.  He was just overly anxious until the moment arrived.   I think his anxiousness turned into excitement once he knew for sure that he had her consent and she really wanted to do it with him as much as he wanted to do it with her.

Perhaps his being overwhelmed wasn't the sex itself, but maybe it was actually getting into the bedroom.   If we recall, he was all in with Amy on the couch on their anniversary, until he got overwhelmed and made the flash statement.  He tried to reel it back in with the "anyway," but it was too late.   He had already messed up, and she broke up with him.

So, maybe it wasn't the act of sex itself that worried him as much as he was more afraid of doing and saying something that would mess everything up and cause Amy to change her mind about wanting to sleep with him.   As he told PP, he understood the mechanics.   He knows what to do, but he didn't know what it would be like for her.

When Sheldon walked into that apartment, his responses were guarded.   Amy offered to remove the candles and turn the music off, but instead of creating conflict, he used her birthday as a means to excuse himself from insisting on his way.  He didn't insist that they have dinner, before presents.  When Amy told him she knew what his gift was, he didn't chastise her or question how she found out.   To the casual audience his comment "I see," would have been a prefix to an excuse to bow out.   No, he confirmed that, "yes" that was his gift and wanted to know if it was okay.   True to Sheldon, he interrupted briefly to pull out the contract, but Amy's kiss quickly diverted him, and he didn't give it another thought.  Instead, he melted into her content with the type of consent she offered instead.

We don't know how long Amy kept Sheldon waiting in her room.   However, I think at the point that he was actually in her bed with the covers on, and she showed up in the room dressed in her nightgown suggesting that she get under the covers with him, he knew then it was a done deal.   He felt safe to show his excitement at this point because everything was working out the way he had hoped.

This post made me see these scenes in a much more optimistic light! I think this may have been exactly what the writers were going for while at the same time giving some of us the impression that "he enjoyed it but let's not make him seem TOO into it to show he's still Sheldon" because (as I've said ad nauseum) they wanted to keep this as neutral as possible so they could gauge their future writing of Shamy on the viewers' overall response to this milestone. They didn't want to be too sappy, but they wanted to make it very clear how passionate this moment was for both of them and not make it seem like "ok let's get the sex plot over with because Sheldon is Sheldon". They took a very Goldilocks approach to writing this episode!  

So thank you @jenafan for writing this because it has made me much more optimistic about the direction the writers will go with the future of Shamy and their happiness!  

Edited December 19, 2015 by FortCozyMcBlanket

[jlove]

I know I'm just jumping on an established bandwagon, but I don't think I've said yet how much I love the statement "This is a big night for us."

Sheldon, of course, is having this converation with himself, not the real PP.  He realizes that this is a big deal, it's really not him just doing something that Amy wants to get it out of the way, nor do I believe that for him it is "just coitus" as someone earlier worried.  His main motivaton is definitely love (as previously discusses ad nauseum) AND he sees this as a big night for the two of them.

I see this conversation "with PP" as him evaluating the cause of the last of his concerns/reservations.  He realizes all that is really holding him back is his fear of becoming overwhelmed and ruining things, but then he is able to also acknowledge that with Amy he doesn't have to worry.  I think he truly understands that it is an intimate physical manifestation of their love for each other, and I believe he sees it as such as well.  This is such a loooooooonnnnngggggg way from the man who found "the concept of coitus ridiculous and off-putting."

I'm just so so so in love with this episode.

[2L344]

4 hours ago, camelliayao said:

The point is, because Amy's a supporting character and we rarely see the story from her point of view (she doesn't even have enough screen time). I'm having a hard time believing they're mutually happy. Sheldon is happy, that I can tell.

Maybe she's happy in the show but that's just what the writers want to show us. Like does she know her boyfriend may never have interests in sex but only does it for her? Does she know his boyfriend may never find her or anyone physically attractive? Is she Ok with never being desired? If Dave wasn't Sheldon's fan, would the Dave&Amy thing work? If she has more options, would she be happier or she would still run back to Sheldon the first chance she gets? We. Don't. Know. As long as she and Sheldon are still together, we assume she's fine and happy with everything.

I'm not saying she's not happy. I just wish the writers could show us more. And I have to say with all the build-ups in previous seasons about how Amy desires Sheldon, I really don't see how this "Sheldon doesn't want sex per se, he does it for Amy" thing would work for both of them. But I guess at the end of the day the writers will find a way to make them happy, or at least a way to make Sheldon happy.

Well it still comes down to the aquarium episode, and why Amy was so willing to revert back to the status quo without so much as a discussion. Simply put, the writers have written Amy to be willing to sacrifice a sex life for the sake of being with the one guy she has had an emotional connection to, right or wrong. So, that being the case, whatever Sheldon gives her in addition to what she already has, motivation aside, is a plus for Amy right? If she isn't expecting a sexual relationship at all, and her BF gives her that to please her ( and frankly I think he enjoys it too), then that's a win. No, it's not what most of us would settle for- but then, most of us would not have settled back into a 5 year relationship with someone we broke up with without an understanding of things.

Amy knew what she was getting, and she went there anyway. In my opinion, they are now at a much better place than what Amy would have gotten had Sheldon took her back after the aquarium date...I happen to think that Sheldon is "all in" at this point in 9.11 now (sheesh, pun not intended lol) and will be giving Amy the intimacy she wanted (physically and emotionally) and not just to shut her up but to please her and himself. He'll stumble through it and make mistakes, but he "gets it" now....

Edited December 19, 2015 by 2L344

[wowbagger]

On 12/18/2015 at 6:36 PM, jlove said:

I am sure she would not gleefully join in on the conversations we have had, and I do get some of what she says. Specifially I LOVE how protective and loving she is to the characters she and Jim have helped bring to life.  However, I am a bit more pragmatic about some of what she discussed than she is.  Maybe it is, in part, because she and I, I think, see feminism a bit differently.  In any case, I'm going to be more speific and descriptive than she was (though not in a vulgar way in this case I think), so if you don't want to read a frank disussion the mechanics of sex, skip on by.

Like I said, I get what Mayim is saying, but I understand why being "good" in sex is more often a question people pose about men, even as she said, when we are talking about 2 virgins.  The simple facts of biology mean that most of the time, most men engaging in intercourse (willingly by choice, especially with someone that they care deeply about) will have an orgasm.  Again speaking stereotypically (based on biology), this usually happens much more quickly and easily for men and the simple act of penetrative intercourse alone is typically enough.  And no, orgasm is not the only criteria for enjoying sex, but it is sort of part and parcel of the experience..for men especially that is what it usually builds to and ends with.  Women, however, are a different story.  So when people ask "if he was good" it is of course a less-frank way of asking if he took the time/effort/whatever to do more than required for his own orgasm and made an effort to help his partner achieve the same thing.  We have all heard the jokes, or heard from someone in real life about the quick "he gets off in no time and she's left there unsatisfied never even having had a chance time-wise to get there herself" experience.  But biologically speaking it is much less likely that those roles are reversed (note I don't say impossible, just less likely).  Not because more men are callous jerks who don't care about satisfying their partners and thus more women are left in the lurch, but just for simple mechanical reasons.  So in the sense that "good at sex = partner orgasming" we have much less reason to wonder "if she was good" (as Mayim says) than if he was.  The question is really multi-faceted when asked of a man: did he 1) know that his partner might need something more/longer/different than he himself and 2) did he use that knowledge and help meet that need?

Of course that in and of itself is a very narrow definition of what makes for good sex and I don't believe in any way that's the only criteria, but when people ask in interviews, or in real life, I think that is the real meaning behind that question.  People think asking "Was he good?" is more delicate than "Did she have an orgasm?" and they're probably right.  Let's just not conflate the two questions and intentions, which is what I think Mayim is (perhaps inadvertently) doing.

As for what we should or shouldn't be discussing here: have at it in whatever way you want in my opinion!  I love these characters.  I love Sheldon's development.  I love to imagine his thought processes and motivations.  Not because I necessarily WANT to be vulgar (in fact, I never really am IRL), but because of all of the above I really enjoy discussing the fact that I think he researched sex, I think he put his research into action and I think he carefully studied Amy's responses and what he learned and used it to bring her pleasure.  I don't find that discussion vulgar, even at the point we're discussing exactly how many time that might have happened.

See, one of the most interesting lines to me in Mayim's post was "What happened between Amy and Sheldon was very special and as an actress, I didn’t feel the need to make the details of my mind or of Jim’s mind or our writers’ minds more public than what we chose to show you in that sweet, funny, awesome episode."

So there WERE details in her mind, in Jim's mind and in the writers' minds.  You honestly have to have some details in mind to convey any certain story.  And they probably dicussed them at some level to determine what they "chose to show [us]".  They know all of the above things I said and that some answers to those questions are in fact important to know exactly what they were portraying at the end of the day.  They told a story based in part on details they had in mind and we watched that story.  And, like all the stories on TBBT, we're analyzing the crap out of it, whether about sex or not.  It's what we do.  I don't see a problem with us discussing those details that were part and parcel to it amongst ourselves either.

Plus, it's fun as hell.  

So I understand what you're saying here, but I do think that there is an issue with framing the issue about whether it is the man who is good in bed: it makes it sound as though the role of the woman is exclusively to lie back and hold up a scorecard, or- more positively- to be responsive. It is still essentially passive. And I do think that that is worrying, because forcing half the world's population into a passive role is in and of itself dodgy as hell. The 'he talk, me listen' paradigm is just so limiting. Once people extol the fantastic muscular control of women, or their calisthenics on top, or their mad skills in various arenas, we'll have gotten at least closer to a point where we don't treat sex as a transaction where one part is the gatekeeper and the judge, and the other is the beseiger or the labourer. We'll treat it as a piece of music in which two (or more!) people collaborate, create something special and unique and bring something and get something awesome from the experience.

Not, of course, that you were implying any differently, or that that is what MB meant! And now I'll continue reading all the lovely posts, and I promise we'll get back to the actual show!

Edited December 19, 2015 by wowbagger

[vonmar]

42 minutes ago, FortCozyMcBlanket said:

This post made me see these scenes in a much more optimistic light! I think this may have been exactly what the writers were going for while at the same time giving some of us the impression that "he enjoyed it but let's not make him seem TOO into it to show he's still Sheldon" because (as I've said ad nauseum) they wanted to keep this as neutral as possible so they could gauge their future writing of Shamy on the viewers' overall response to this milestone. They didn't want to be too sappy, but they wanted to make it very clear how passionate this moment was for both of them and not make it seem like "ok let's get the sex plot over with because Sheldon is Sheldon". They took a very Goldilocks approach to writing this episode!  

So thank you @jenafan for writing this because it has made me much more optimistic about the direction the writers will go with the future of Shamy and their happiness!  

My take on Sheldon's comment...Sheldon being Sheldon, he had done a quick analysis of the event and had formed a conclusion. He had to have gone into the evening assuming that he would enjoy it, but in fact, he enjoyed it more than he had imagined.  Success!  Success at anything thrills Sheldon.  

I also keep coming back to his eidetic memory, every moment of this experience is burned into his brain...every touch, taste, feeling is now part of who he is.  Amy will have romantic, thrilling memories of her time with Sheldon...Sheldon will never forget a single detail.

 

Edited December 19, 2015 by vonmar

[EvilStewie]

LOL I just watched the clip of the last episode again, I smile every time Jim says the line " I look forward to your next Birthday when we do it again."  You can tell he is trying to keep it together, he wants to smile so bad, its to cute lol

Edited December 19, 2015 by EvilStewie

[koops]

34 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

Well it still comes down to the aquarium episode, and why Amy was so willing to revert back to the status quo without so much as a discussion. Simply put, the writers have written Amy to be willing to sacrifice a sex life for the sake of being with the one guy she has had an emotional connection to, right or wrong. So, that being the case, whatever Sheldon gives her in addition to what she already has, motivation aside, is a plus for Amy right? If she isn't expecting a sexual relationship at all, and her BF gives her that to please her ( and rankle, I think he enjoys it too), then that's a win. No, it's not what most of us would settle for- but then, most of us would not have settled back into a 5 year relationship with someone we broke up with without an understanding of things.

Amy knew what she was getting, and she went there anyway. In my opinion, they are now at a much better place than what Amy would have gotten had Sheldon took her back after the aquarium date...

I agree, but it's even more than that to me, from that episode. I think the point in that episode isn't just about what Amy wanted that Sheldon would or wouldn't give her (especially not just sex), but the fact that what she wanted or thought she wanted wasn't really important to her in the grand scheme of things. We have to remember where Amy started from, someone who was just as aloof and closed off as Sheldon, with no interest in romantic bonds or sex, and she came to desire all these different things through the years. I'm not saying that she doesn't really want any of them, because she does want some of them for sure, but the bottom line is that those were extra things added onto what Amy has *always* perceived as priorities or important in her life. And I think that intellectual and emotional connection she found with Sheldon trumps all the romance and sex that she might have come to want in the last few years, and it's something that the Amy of *any* point in their story cherished the most. It's something that was there all along, no matter how much everything else around it changed.

So I don't think she's "settling", and I think that, say, had she started a relationship with Dave, she might have gotten sex and flowers out of him, but she would have "settled" as far as everything else goes. Also, Amy isn't stupid. She said she "understands" why Sheldon struggles with intimacy, and I'm sure that they have had conversations about it, some of which we have seen on screen. And they will continue to communicate about it. I don't think Amy is deluding herself as she might have done early on when she was still in the 'infatuation' phase of S5. I think she's matured, she's more realistic in her desires and expectations now and I don't think it's a matter of sacrificing, I think it's a matter of prioritizing, and just because some rank sex at the top of the list for a relationship, it doesn't mean that's the case for Amy. She's sorted out her priorities, just as much as Sheldon has. And, like you say, they're in a much better place because of that.

And this is still the "worst" case scenario, which is unlikely to unfold, because I doubt the show would go there. I think it's more likely that we will we assist to an awakening of Sheldon's sexuality (as weird and unusual as it will be) through the season, particularly with the comments from TPTB about how it won't be a year until the next time despite what Sheldon's plan might be at this stage and how it's "part of his psyche" now and he will have to work at compartimentalizing it. Until they eventually settle into something odd and Shamy-like but that works for them as far as their sex life go. 

Edited December 19, 2015 by koops

[jenafan]

21 minutes ago, vonmar said:

(Snip)

I also keep coming back to his eidetic memory, every moment of this experience is burned into his brain...every touch, taste, feeling is now part of who he is.  Amy will have romantic, thrilling memories of her time with Sheldon...Sheldon will never forget a single detail.

 

I so love this point.  I used it in my last FF.  Amy told him he would always remember every moment,  where her memory would fade in time.  She wanted him to remind her if she ever forgot and started to take him for granted when he upset her to the point of overreacting.

[FortCozyMcBlanket]

26 minutes ago, vonmar said:

My take on Sheldon's comment...Sheldon being Sheldon, he had done a quick analysis of the event and had formed a conclusion. He had to have gone into the evening assuming that he would enjoy it, but in fact, he enjoyed it more than he had imagined.  Success!  Success at anything thrills Sheldon.  

I also keep coming back to his eidetic memory, every moment of this experience is burned into his brain...every touch, taste, feeling is now part of who he is.  Amy will have romantic, thrilling memories of her time with Sheldon...Sheldon will never forget a single detail.

 

I'm just gonna sit here and let that stew in my mind while my heart flutters away <3

and it makes me even further ponder that during their love making he was thinking things like, "her right hand is on my shoulder right now... the same hand that I held when we told Penny and Leonard we were getting a turtle..." and "her lips taste even better than the time we kissed on my couch..." and "her beautiful eyes are gazing into mine even more lovingly than when they sparkle when she watches old French movies..." 

ok I'm getting carried away!  

[CentralPerk]

8 hours ago, koops said:

I’m only posting now because it literally took me almost two days to wrap my mind around this episode, what it meant, what it means for the future and just generally my feelings about it. In short, I loved everything about it, and some things even exceeded my expectations, until the post-coital moment and subsequent interviews which did leave me a bit concerned (well, a bit was an understatement at first, but I’ve calmed down significantly since! LOL!). I’m going to focus more on the serious Shamy developments than what was funny about the whole episode (Bob Newhart is such a legend, and Penny and that glass, OMC!) because I’ll otherwise never stop writing because it was a riot from start to finish. 

WARNING: LONG ESSAY AHEAD! 

The motivation/Proton

I loved every single scene with Proton, and particularly they way they explicitly pointed out Proton is nothing more than a part of Sheldon’s mind. We kind of knew that already, obviously, but it was nice to see it put into words. And to me that kind of emphasizes the two sides of Sheldon, not only within himself (Sheldon vs Proton) but between his inner self and the outside world. I find it interesting when Sheldon talks to Penny and Bernadette about his “gift” he refers to it as coitus and his genitals, but when he is talking to himself/Proton he talks about getting physical and is a lot more emotional about it. It opens a window to Sheldon’s private inner thoughts and shows us how it differs from the way he presents himself to the outside world. How he keeps it relatively clinical and pragmatic, but inside he is a lot more reflective and emotional. It kind of gives some grounding for those moments where he is being serious and emotional with the other characters, so that you can tell they don’t come out of nowhere, they are inside of him already. 

My favorite exchange with Proton was when Sheldon said “It’s an important night FOR US”. I think the choice of words there is very crucial. He said nothing about Amy having waited a long time for this, it being an important night for HER, him wanting to make it good for HER, him being afraid of screwing it up for HER. It was THEIR night and he wanted to make it good. He might not have longed for this for years in the same way Amy did, he might not have wanted this out of pure lust, but it still meant as much to him as it did to Amy.

I’ve posted before about how I think it would be kind of unrealistic for a man who spent 30+ years of his life dealing with issues with physical contact and germs to be looking forward to sex in the same way someone else might, or want it out of desire (yet). But that doesn’t mean he didn’t want it, or that, like Molaro said, his heart wasn’t in it. People engage in sex for different reasons, but I think in this case we would much rather have Sheldon be driven to it out of love and adoration for Amy, and putting her first, than like in those fanfic scenarios where Amy is just a tool for him to awaken his sexual desires and their first time is aloof and detached and just for his own selfish benefit, where he runs off immediately after and doesn’t take her fears or desires into consideration. Sheldon was ever the gentleman and very sweet and patient with her, and she deserves nothing less.

The couch/bed scenes

Which leads me to what I think were my favorite scenes of the entire episode, the couch scene and especially the bed scene. I think everyone went on at length about how cleverly they mixed the humor and the sweetness when Sheldon is adamant to have clear consent before he proceeds. Besides the fact that it makes him come across as one hell of a respectful gentleman, and how funny it is that that is mixed with his obsession to have everything clearly written down and explicit, I think it also just adds on evidence to the idea that Sheldon wants to do this. If he was only doing it because she wants it, then the whole question of her consent would be moot; of course she wants it. He’s asking for permission to do this WITH her, and TO her. If it were just about giving himself to her in a passive way, he would be laying back going “Here’s your birthday present. Do what you wish.”

The bed scene was hands down one of the best in the entire series when it comes to seriousness and poignancy. It was realistic and unbearably sweet but not overly cheesy and definitely not unfunny.  I think you see the shift in Sheldon from before she comes into the room to after she walks in very clearly (can we talk about that massive grin he has as he says “Hello” the first time?? - I haven't yet found that in a gif). He not only seem totally confident that, yep, this was a good decision and the right time, but I think you slowly see him letting himself get caught up in the moment and the feelings he has for her, how he gradually becomes softer and lets his own guard down. When she gets into bed he’s fidgeting under the covers, but smiling, and he almost looks eager to get started as he waits for her to acknowledge him. 

I think that “We can find out together” is an amazing line, not just becaue that’s Sheldon reassuring her and calming her nerves and being so sweet to her, but because I feel it literally encapsulates their entire relationship from day 1: their whole relationship is about finding out together about things they had no idea about or what to expect. I think it might have topped “Whether you see it or not is irrelevant” as the line that describes their relationship the best.

And that kiss was just… No words. It was a VERY pleasant surprise (I was a bit puzzled as to why it would cut before they kissed when we got the spoilers), but, more than anything, it was the sweetest, yet most sensual kiss we have ever seen between them. And it’s not just because it was in bed. I didn’t even really noticed how good it was until my 3rd or 4th time watching because it goes so fast, but the way they slowly lean into each other, almost breathless and trembling, it’s actually maybe one of the most sensually charged kisses we have seen on the show. And it’s funny because it’s actually very short, yet packs a lot of punch in that brief moment.

The ending/cuddle/interviews

And now for some things that left me a bit… deflated: the ending and the emphasis on that ending and the parallels with Wil at the cinema that dominated the interviews more than any other aspect of the episode.

On the one hand, I do understand that the show had already gone very serious, sweet and emotional with Sheldon/Shamy and needed to dial back to their more traditional humor. And I do understand that they were probably very very nervous about writing a sexually active Sheldon and how this might be received by the audience. I get that, and I do get that their need to always insert a “DON’T WORRY! SHELDON IS STILL SHELDON!” scene at the end of episodes like this very much stems from that fear. So I don’t think that that moment or line will necessarily mean much in terms of how this will be handled from here on (and Molaro has already hinted that it might not all be what it seems).

On the other hand, I found the change in demeanor between Sheldon pre-sex and in that kiss (and even Sheldon in Earworm and the passion and abandon with which he lost himself in Amy) and Sheldon post-sex - being relatively unphased - to be a bit too sharp and a bit out of place by this stage.  They seem to really want to tiptoe around Sheldon’s sexuality even here, despite the fact that in the past we have had plenty of moments where it was clear that something was simmering under the surface (like I said, Earworm, his jealousy over Amy sleeping with other men, Prom, other times where he has been sexually possessive of her, Launch Acceleration and so on). And, frankly, to go implying that they engaged in intercourse for over two hours (“of bliss” according to Molaro) and then suddenly imply “Well, Sheldon’s kind of indifferent” is a bit of a stretch. 

Not in the sense that I wanted Sheldon to be all disheveled and going “OMC that was amazing can we do a round two ASAP?”. Not at all. And, after all, he did say “I enjoyed that more than I thought I would”, not “I still don’t see the big fuss” or “Well, can say I’ve tried it once at least” and even implying he wants and looks forward to doing it again, even if it's in a year, is pretty massive for Sheldon. So that’s not my issue. This is not even about sex to me. I know there’s been a lot of debates and arguments in the past weeks about Sheldon’s sexual orientation and all that, but to me that was never really an issue worth discussing. Not only because everyone is different and although attraction, desire, lust and sex are often intertwined, they’re not intertwined in the same way for everyone and it can be very complicated, but there’s nothing wrong with not really seeing the big deal about sex.That doesn’t automatically mean not finding one's partner attractive, or not enjoying sex when one has it, or not enjoying other forms of physical intimacy. But what was always clear and undeniable to me in the entire episode is that this moment was not about sex and lust and desire per se, but about an emotional connection finding a new way to express itself. We can debate until the cows come home about what exactly it is that turns Sheldon on and what turns Amy on, but what is not up for debate is the fact that they both deeply love each other and that this moment for BOTH of them was very much about that love and and intimacy that stems from love. Whether or not they might be turned on by other things in addition to that, love was a turn on for both of them. 

And I kind of felt they sucked that out of the scene a bit, especially by cutting the cuddle. I think having them cuddle after Sheldon said his lines would have done a better job at showing that yes, while Sheldon might not be blown away by sex per se, the experience was still something that moved him on an emotional level. The fact that the lines/reactions/parallels in the end were made specifically to be about sex *the act*, and reading Lorre talk about it as if it was some kind of scientific experiment where Sheldon just gave sex a try really pissed me off because that to me is cheapening the entire experience down to pure sex as the mechanical act driven by hormones and to be an insult to what that night really represents for Sheldon and Amy as a couple. Because it wasn’t about sex for sex’s sake. Never was. That is not the issue here. 

Moving forward

Having said that, like I mentioned, I get that there were also a lot of encouraging statements in the interviews, and that 99% of the episode did incredible justice to the journey that got them here, and that in a sense it’s a good thing that they’re saying “yes, look, they’ve had sex but that’s not the point. There’s more to them than that and it’s not going to change everything they are and have been”. As much as sex is an important milestone for them, it is not what defines them, just as the lack of it didn’t define them before. To have them now be all about sex and wanting sex and having sex would be pretty unimaginative and disappointing to me.

I liked Molaro’s statements that there are years and years of them learning more about each other and ways of loving each other. That this one time wasn’t the be all and end all of their story and there’s a lot left to explore even within and outside of this realm. It’s something I felt from the TR and the way they approached this, that they’ve left a lot of room open to write more stories about how sex will become a part of their relationship from here on. And how now that it’s in “Sheldon’s psyche”, like Lorre said, it will be interesting to see how it affects him and how he compartimentalizes it or fails at compartimentalizing it and so on. In other words, this isn’t the end of the sex question, let alone their relationship, and there’s a lot left to write about, unlike when other couples consummate and that’s the end of it. 

I just hope that just as they realized that they needed to show Sheldon make the first move and initiate their first time because you don’t want to “write an episode like this where it looks like he’s being forced into something his heart is not in”, they will recognize that it would be just as distasteful to write their future sexual relationship as something where Amy demands sex on a regular basis and Sheldon just lies there and gives it to her. There’s nothing wrong with sex not being something that takes over their relationship like it does for others, but also there’s nothing wrong in showing Sheldon show his attraction to her and desire for her (because there have been hints about it in the past) and developing his own new sexuality and finding a place for it in his life. The bottom line is for them to learn to think about “Sheldon and Amy” as opposed to “Sheldon and sex”, because that’s what it comes down to for him. It’s not sex the act, Amy isn't just a vehicle for him to have sex with. It’s about Amy and his feelings, be them romantic or sensual, about Amy. 

Tidbits

Other small observations. I am floored and ecstatic by the great reviews and reception this episode has had! I was expecting a lot more backlash about Sheldon having sex, but, really, everywhere I read (TVLine, ET, SpoilerTV, FB, friends), 99% of comments praised the episode. I hope Molaro will be pleased, since I know he said he was hoping people would like it as much or even more than the SIK. And I think they definitely did! And, finally, as a big Star Wars fan, the whole construction of the episode, but especially the opening was amazing. I’ve watched the opening probably as often as I’ve watched the Shamy parts. Just hearing that music opening a TBBT episode, and what an episode at that, gave me goosebumps! Praise for most of this! I’m looking forward to seeing Shamy do nothing more than be happy and in love in the background now for a while. And if Mayim doesn’t win an Emmy this year, then there’s definitely a conspiracy!

I agree with all of this !!

[EvilStewie]

40 minutes ago, vonmar said:

  

I also keep coming back to his eidetic memory, every moment of this experience is burned into his brain...every touch, taste, feeling is now part of who he is.  Amy will have romantic, thrilling memories of her time with Sheldon...Sheldon will never forget a single detail.

 

You tease! Kidding, this is like my new happy thought, or anti drug! 

[wowbagger]

Right. So. This threads quiet, eh? Don't y'all realise the Shamy had sex really pretty recently?

I actually think that koops has captured how I felt about the episode- which I mostly loved. Here's a rundown:

Things that make me go 'Awwwwwwww':

1) Penny breaking the glass.

2) Penny and Bernie's giddy excitement. Check out the scene where Penny and Bernie go to Amy to break the news. Penny is vibrating on her toes, nearly. So adorable. Sheldon Copper and his Council of Ladies, everybody.

Things that make me go 'Awwww, YEAH':

1) 'It's a big night for both of us.' Yes, it is, Doctor Cooper.

2) Sheldon's nod at Professor Proton's 'When it's the right person'. She is the right person. you know it. Professor Proton (who is also you) knows it. You can see that Sheldon has basically already decided that this is what he wants to do, and that he is just using PP to ratify his decision. But he'll go to the girls to double-check.

3) Amy's doomed attempts at Cleopatra-style posing made me giggle and kvell. Also her attempts at sultry innuendo while Sheldon is patiently trying to get to his consent form so that he and the love of his life can have sex. You already have the man, Amy, but bless you for trying to vamp him anyway.

4) That consent form. That beautiful bloody consent form. For a show that can sometimes goof in its depiction of gender politics, what a cracker of a thing to get absofuckinglutely right. I kiss my hand to you, Doctor Cooper. From a respectful and hygienic distance, of course.

5) Amy's skittishness and anxiety. How beautifully observed to have Amy's freakout to come later, as she is heading towards the water at 40,000mph.

6) 'We'll find out together.' I'm repeating myself (again), but how absolutely perfect that these cerebral, wonkish oddballs would phrase so new and terrifying a journey in terms of discovery, of putting one hand in another and shining a torch into the unknown? Oh, you two.

7) Amy DID enjoy the film! maybe Sheldon and Amy will find a nerd thing to get into together! Another one, I mean! Calloo, callay!

Things that make me go 'Hmmmmmmm':

Yeah, I'm going to be talking about the post-coital shot. Sorry. Because everything up to then was so utterly wonderful. Sheldon and Amy's joining was so tender and sensual and intimate, and they seemed, when the camera cut away, to be so utterly, tremulously in sync, that that post-coital shot did leave me feeling a little.....I don't even know if 'deflated' is the word. I'm probably not going to explain this very well, but I remember reading somewhere that there is a myth that once, long ago, all beings were one, and then were cruelly sundered. The act of sex is ta desperate attempt to fuse bodies and souls together, to find our way back to the unity that was taken from us. And when we fall apart after sex, we return to our divided bodies and souls, and we weep for what was lost and what we cannot get back. And I think of that rather irritating Latin tag: Post coitum omne animal triste est, sive gallium et mulier: Every animal is sad after sex, except the rooster and the woman.

Sheldon wasn't sad. He looked serene, untroubled, confident. And that is terrific. But I looked at both Amy and Sheldon- both happy, I suppose, but alone in their own separate worlds, and registering at such different levels of 'shaken, not stirred' (sorry, I watched Spectre last night), that it made me think of the legend and whether I was right in confidently assuming that they were on the same page, handholding notwithstanding.

On some level, I appreciate that Sheldon didn't look stirred. On some level, I get that the real seismic shift for him was the kiss on the train. That it was as he moved in to Amy and rested his hands on her hips like it was the most casual thing in the world that we saw what would eventually happen. And so did he, if his awestruck expression afterwards was any indication. And maybe that is why we don't see him struggle with increases in physical intimacy. Once Sheldon knew he liked kissing Amy, and he knew he loved her, he knew in his head that it was only a matter of time before he would want to have sex with her. So, on some level, in his head, it had already happened. So of course he wasn't rocked to his foundations by sex. That had happened, already, long ago, when he kissed her and knew he liked it. I get it, I do. And I even think I like it?

And I do like- and I think it's HUGE- that when Sheldon said 'I can't wait for your next birthday to do that again', Amy beamed and said 'Works for me!'. Because I think, and I hope, that that means that that tiresome 'Amy wants more, Sheldon digs his heels in, tee-hee, sexual frustration is funny, and we are geniuses because this time it's the girl who's frustrated, geddit? geddit?' vein of 'humour' has been taken out and shot in the back of the head, as it deserves.

But I confess that I would have loved it if Sheldon had had that serene expression with just a hint of the wonder and reverence of his 'the only conclusion was love'. Or if, in that post-coital shot, they were looking at each other, instead of straight ahead of them, together but separate.

Because it made me think of the myth, and to wonder if it's true.

Edited December 20, 2015 by wowbagger

[Flaky]

5 hours ago, jlove said:

Is anyone else in love with the way Sheldon's legs are constantly moving from the time Amy comes in?  It doesn't seem that he's nervous, given his surprise at her own nervousness, so what is it?  Anticipation?  The way he's looking at her coupled with his incessant movements kills me.  And yes, watching it on .25 on YouTube is amazing, thank you to I think it was Jenafan who suggested that.  From the moment she gets into bed he's attentively watching, her, waiting for her to look at him and of course she's fidgeting with the blankets, staring straight ahead, etc.  He even looks her up and down again like he did when she came in the door.  Especially the way he looks at her for about 5 seconds before the "Hello" in bed makes my knees go a little weak.

He's quite calm throught this whole thing, but the looks combined with his inability to sit still make me think someone is just a *bit* excited this is actually happening.  

Yes!!!!  I wish I could give your post multiple likes.  As for the bold part, I get butterflies in my stomach every time I watch that scene. *melt*

[Guest]

Okay, after being off the internet for 25 hours (I am not Jewish but I have started doing a digital detox which is marvellous by he way), all I can say is I enjoyed the episode beyond my wildest dreams, I don't think Sheldon had sex just to make Amy happy, he was ready and willing to do it!  So he appears calm after the deed...so does my husband!  I'm the one that usually moans, pants etc.  My husband also can't get over Amy's hair after!  I thinks he is mighty proud of Sheldon!  

If you still want to argue that he is asexual etc. etc. etc.  by all means do so but I will continue to enjoy an episode that as far as I was concerned was brilliantly written and executed.

Again, as I said earlier, if you didn't have the spoiler reports, you would never have known there was a post-coital cuddle!  I'msure they are not talking about in the spoiler free thread!

 

 

 

[Riley7]

I may have been too aggressive in a previous post. You all know I'm a huge Shamy fan and I just get so passionate about the show because I'm a writer as well. I would just like to 1) apologize for my behavior and also 2) explain why I reacted the way I did. See, I don't like discussing Sheldon's sexuality here because I feel it's not supportive shipping material. I wrote a novel about a girl who is very charming and sweet but inexperienced when it comes to sex and boyfriends and even love. She falls in love with her neighbour, a gay man. They have sex and she's blissfully unaware that to him she was just an experiment (how it would be  with a woman). I kinda get the feeling that's how casual viewers are seeing Shamy and not just the sex, the relationship as a whole. I love the writers, but I don't like the way they treat Sheldon's sexuality and or sexual desires. It hurts. I'm not half as big a fan as some of you, I couldn't tell you what the episodes names are or what shirt matches what mood, but I can tell you that I have invested 9 years of my life into this show and 5 years of my life into this relationship. I've lost so many significant people in my life in five years, but somehow Shamy remained and against all Odds, made it work up until the point where they finally take this huge step. This show has been apart of my growing up from kid to young adult. So whenever I see negativity, I feel obligated to say something, blame it on the passion. I really feel that this forum and I have a lovehate relationship. I do enjoy reading the posts on here, but I don't like negativity because there's too much of it in the world. I've been, like you all, through alot. We all deal with our shit differently, I rant and throw tantrums and pout and come 'round again. I'm immature, sue me. But don't sue me over shipping this amazing fandom with all my heart. This episode is my favorite of all time and it's not even the sex, it's the progress they've made. It really has been foreplay for five years leading up to this moment. 

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

13 hours ago, Soopysue said:

You're right, much as a wink would be cute, I've noticed Jim does this sometimes  . 

If you watch Jim puts on an eye twitch for Sheldon, he also flexes his cheek and neck muscles sometimes. These kind of 'tic's are very common in people with social anxiety problems and just one of the million reasons that he is one of my favourite actors  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Riley7 said:

I may have been too aggressive in a previous post. You all know I'm a huge Shamy fan and I just get so passionate about the show because I'm a writer as well. I would just like to 1) apologize for my behavior and also 2) explain why I reacted the way I did. See, I don't like discussing Sheldon's sexuality here because I feel it's not supportive shipping material. I wrote a novel about a girl who is very charming and sweet but inexperienced when it comes to sex and boyfriends and even love. She falls in love with her neighbour, a gay man. They have sex and she's blissfully unaware that to him she was just an experiment (how it would be  with a woman). I kinda get the feeling that's how casual viewers are seeing Shamy and not just the sex, the relationship as a whole. I love the writers, but I don't like the way they treat Sheldon's sexuality and or sexual desires. It hurts. I'm not half as big a fan as some of you, I couldn't tell you what the episodes names are or what shirt matches what mood, but I can tell you that I have invested 9 years of my life into this show and 5 years of my life into this relationship. I've lost so many significant people in my life in five years, but somehow Shamy remained and against all Odds, made it work up until the point where they finally take this huge step. This show has been apart of my growing up from kid to young adult. So whenever I see negativity, I feel obligated to say something, blame it on the passion. I really feel that this forum and I have a lovehate relationship. I do enjoy reading the posts on here, but I don't like negativity because there's too much of it in the world. I've been, like you all, through alot. We all deal with our shit differently, I rant and throw tantrums and pout and come 'round again. I'm immature, sue me. But don't sue me over shipping this amazing fandom with all my heart. This episode is my favorite of all time and it's not even the sex, it's the progress they've made. It really has been foreplay for five years leading up to this moment. 

I feel the same way!

[Ranger Rosa]

43 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Things that make me go 'Hmmmmmmm':

I don't even know if 'deflated' is the word. I'm probably not going to explain this very well, but I remember reading somewhere that there is a myth that once, long ago, all beings were one, and then were cruelly sundered. The act of sex is ta desperate attempt to fuse bodies and souls together, to find our way back to the unity that was taken from us. And when we fall apart after sex, we return to our divided bodies and souls, and we weep for what was lost and what we cannot get back. And I think of that rather irritating Latin tag: Post coitum omne animal triste est, sive gallium et mulier: Every animal is sad after sex, except the rooster and the woman.

Sheldon wasn't sad. He looked serene, untroubled, confident. And that is terrific. But I looked at both Amy and Sheldon- both happy, I suppose, but alone in their own separate worlds, and registering at such different levels of 'shaken, not stirred' (sorry, I watched Spectre last night), that it made me think of the legend and whether I was right in confidently assuming that they were on the same page, handholding notwithstanding.

On some level, I appreciate that Sheldon didn't look stirred. On some level, I get that the real seismic shift for him was the kiss on the train. That it was as he moved in to Amy and rested his hands on her hips like it was the most casual thing in the world that we saw what would eventually happen. And so did he, if his awestruck expression afterwards was any indication. And maybe that is why we don't see him struggle with increases in physical intimacy. Once Sheldon knew he liked kissing Amy, and he knew he loved her, he knew in his head that it was only a matter of time before he would want to have sex with her. So, on some level, in his head, it had already happened. So of course he wasn't rocked to his foundations by sex. That had happened, already, long ago, when he kissed her and knew he liked it. I get it, I do. And I even think I like it?

And I do like- and I think it's HUGE- that when Sheldon said 'I can't wait for your next birthday to do that again', Amy beamed and said 'Works for me!'. Because I think, and I hope, that that means that that tiresome 'Amy wants more, Sheldon digs his heels in, tee-hee, sexual frustration is funny, and we are geniuses because this time it's the girl who's frustrated, geddit? geddit?' vein of 'humour' has been taken out and shot in the back of the head, as it deserves.

But I confess that I would have loved it if Sheldon had had that serene expression with just a hint of the wonder and reverence of his 'the only conclusion was love'. Or if, in that post-coital shot, they were looking at each other, instead of straight ahead of them, together but separate.

Because it made me think of the myth, and to wonder if it's true.

THE BOLD PART IS SO BEAUTIFUL!


When it happens with someone you love and care about, it can connect you with you partner's soul or a higher spiritual level: plenitude. Sheldon, as you said, is completelly serene, not sad at all. The latin tag considers men as just mere savages, slaves of their instincts, as if they were irrational animals. They're not. As humans, they can feel that too, but not in a deep sensitive way as women do. When there is love in the mix, the bodies may fall apart a thousand times, but the hearts will never let each other go. And there is the breadcrumbs to the two bodies meet again, in the heart, in the spirit. I may sound too subjective but their opera itself it's almost like a communion, it was the best way to express their love to each other: bonding their spirits and never letting each other go away from their own hearts.