Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9

[wowbagger]

what is really interesting to me about Gorgon Meemaw (Meemawdusa?)'s reveal about the ring, is how pointedly the show took one possible cash cow and shot it in the back of the head. They didn't have ShAmy coitus on some sort of landmark anniversary episode, as I would have expected. So I was thinking that for sure they would spin out the proposal. But no. The writers have, very calmly, let the gas out of that particular balloon. Yes, there is a ring. Yes, there will be a proposal. No, there won't be any anxiety about whether it will happen. The question is really when and how. Cue speculation....

which is the Hitchcock approach (two hours of suspense, rather than one second of shock). I dig it, show. I dig it.

my preferred approach is still for the proposal to follow the prom episode and to have, I don't know, Lenny push Sheldon to propose to amy, have amy say to Sheldon 'you don't have to do it, you know' and for Sheldon to say 'of course not, but I want to. I've wanted to for months. Now go away and let me figure out the perfect proposal in peace, woman! I've built it up so much in my head and I'm panicking!', and have amy say 'about what? I love you and you love me. No ring and piece of paper will make that better.' And have Sheldon say 'poppycock! Contracts make everything better and I'll prove it to you! Amy Farrah fowler, will you marry me?'

so long as the show doesn't manufacture any more drama to thrust asunder the apparently happy and functional pair, that is...

Edited January 19, 2016 by wowbagger

[jenafan]

15 hours ago, 2L344 said:

I give Meemaw a pass for presumably having a skewed view of Amy and the breakup since we have no idea what was fed to her. And youre right, Amy would probably have reconciled her differences with Sheldon if the existence of the ring was revealed to her, and maybe the status quo would have been maintained and growth would not have been made.

But theres no way Penny could have known any of what we now know would happen. Amy eventually tries to return to the status quo anyway but Sheldon turns her down. So the idea of personal growth occurring is irrelevant since Amy was willing to settle for old Sheldon. Penny interferes a lot, its her thing. The fact that she encourages (doesnt stay out of it) Amy to explore options and actively participates in it is evidence of that. She didnt hesitate to help Howard get Bernie back when he asked, and that was a short relationship with a guy Penny considered somewhat loathesome...

I guess IMO you give too much credit to Penny for being the wise one in withholding the ring info. Maybe ultimately it is none of Penny's business to get involved. The same may be true for Meemaw adding her two cents regardless of being a loving gramdma who is acting on Sheldon's behalf because, as family and someone who deeply cares for Sheldon, she wants to do her part in sparing him a mistake. Its hard to argue against that.

But for me, if you have potential info that is a game changer in something like a failed five year relationship between friends and choose to keep that secret, you are nt being much of a friend. Amy could have always weighed the info about the ring herself and decided that it was either irrelevant because despite the ring Sheldon was still an ass hat who wasnt gonna change. Worse case scenario is she runs back to him and gets what she wants (something she attempted to do anyway, right or wrong). 

Had Amy decided Dave wasnt for her, and a heartbroken Sheldon chose to abandon relationships in the future, I dont see how keeping the ring info a secret is a win. Certainly, if Amy found out about it she would lay blame for her lack of "happiness" on Penny's doorstep, and Penny would have a hard time defending her action as for being Amy's own good. 

I guess for me it boils down to what a person believes what a "friend" should be, and to what lengths they should go to BE a friend. Bernie knew Lenny kissed another girl on the sea voyage and held onto that info. As a friend, SHOULD she have said something to her friend Penny? When Sheldon thought Penny was having an affair with someone when Leonard was away at sea (ironic huh lol) he struggled with that issue as a friend enough to confide in Amy, and ultimately barged in on Penny in an attempt to confirm his fears ( and undoubtedly he would have shared that info with Leonard if he was right). 

You are correct.   Perhaps I am giving Penny too much credit, but here is why:

This is no way Penny could have known what was going to happen, but I think she was convinced it was in Amy's best interest to move on in spite of Sheldon's heartbreak.     Penny and Bernie had made mention to Amy a couple of times that it wouldn't be a bad idea for her to explore her options if Sheldon wasn't giving her everything she expected in the relationship.  She wasn't going to do anything to interfere with helping Amy return to a relationship that was status quo, because she didn't feel the relationship was healthy for her.   Amy needed time to figure out what it was she wanted, and Sheldon needed time to figure out if he was going to step up and become what Amy truly needs.

Now the "bad boyfriend" line still gets me.   Amy has been spending a lot of time defending her relationship with Sheldon, calling him the best boyfriend and gushing about how happy she was to be dating Sheldon Cooper, in spite of his quirks and occasional jerk behavior.    I'm wondering, if in her effort to vent to Penny, if it was Penny's idea for Amy to take a break, and if Penny was the one to convince her Sheldon was being a bad boyfriend.

I think Penny underestimated Sheldon's feelings for Amy and finding out about the ring was a wake up call to her.   I think she hoped when Sheldon walked out of the apartment with the ring that he would come back an engaged man.   It didn't happen, but I think if Amy had known about the ring, she would have taken Sheldon back.   The problem is, when Sheldon saw her kissing Dave, he lost interest in his determination thinking she'd rather be with someone else.   I think the moment convinced Sheldon she wanted something more than he was prepared to give; that notch on her bed post.   This would explain why the very first question he asked when they were together again was if she had had coitus, as Penny had him convinced that his unwillingness to put out was the main reason Amy broke up with him.

Perhaps Penny figured Amy had decided to move on and gain experience, and she was not going to stand in her way.   I think this was why she was so curious about her date with Dave.   She wanted to know who the man was that Amy had seemingly moved on with.   Hence, in the following episode, Penny praised Sheldon for going on the prowl for another girlfriend.   She had the attitude that if Amy is moving on with other opportunities, Sheldon should learn from his failed relationship with Amy and try as well.

When Amy called Sheldon to ask to be his girlfriend again, and Sheldon turned her down, I could see the look of regret in Penny's facial expression.   She knew he was in denial about his feelings.

In the end, Penny choosing not to tell Amy about the ring did Sheldon and Amy well.    Amy took Sheldon back status quo.  She is sure of what she wants.  However, by not having her do it sooner by knowing about the ring, it gave Sheldon a chance to grow and become a better man for her.   As Penny told Leonard in the kitchen in Earworm, "See, I told you if we left him alone, he would figure it out on his own."    That he did.

Penny picks and chooses when she wants to gossip.   She didn't tell Amy about the ring, but she and Bernie had little issue with telling Amy about Sheldon wanting to get physical.    So, in Penny's mind, telling Amy about the ring was bad.   Warning Amy about coitus coming was good.

I think Amy realizes that the break up did them both good, but perhaps she will still call Penny out on keeping vital information from her.     One thing that still has not been revealed to Amy, at least on screen, is that Sheldon witnessed her kissing Dave.   That is the reason she never got a chance to refuse or accept Sheldon's proposal.    Penny telling her about the ring wasn't going to change that.   Perhaps if she did and Amy went to Sheldon to discuss the matter, his rejection would have just come sooner as a man spurned, rather than one who realizes just how much he needs her in his life.   Sheldon needed more time to understand that being engaged to Amy to end the break and have her around him again wasn't enough.   Actions are well and good, but he needed to understand exactly what Amy meant to him, and how he had neglected in showing her emotionally and physically.

So, everyone's actions during the break up may have seemed heartless and not friend-like.   However, in all fairness, Amy was not talking.  No one really knew where she stood.  Now it seems her seemingly happy state of being without Sheldon was just a front to cover over the fact that she just didn't know what to do.  She seemed intent on wanting to be left alone and to move on away from Sheldon.   Her friends were just respecting her decision and helping her along, while encouraging Sheldon to do so as well.

Whether Amy will see it that way, knowing that Penny knew things that she didn't that may have prevented the length of the break up, remains to be seen.  However, I love the idea of a Penny/Amy interaction where we get more information about what Amy went through during those six months without Sheldon.   I want confirmation that she suffered heartbreak as much as Sheldon did.

Edited January 19, 2016 by jenafan

[mirs1]

6 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

what is really interesting to me about Gorgon Meemaw (Meemawdusa?)'s reveal about the ring, is how pointedly the show took one possible cash cow and shot it in the back of the head. They didn't have ShAmy coitus on some sort of landmark anniversary episode, as I would have expected. So I was thinking that for sure they would spin out the proposal. But no. The writers have, very calmly, let the gas out of that particular balloon. Yes, there is a ring. Yes, there will be a proposal. No, there won't be any anxiety about whether it will happen. The question is really when and how. Cue speculation....

which is the Hitchcock approach (two hours of suspense, rather than one second of shock). I dig it, show. I dig it.

my preferred approach is still for the proposal to follow the prom episode and to have, I don't know, Lenny push Sheldon to propose to amy, have amy say to Sheldon 'you don't have to do it, you know' and for Sheldon to say 'of course not, but I want to. I've wanted to for months. Now go away and let me figure out the perfect proposal in peace, woman! I've built it up so much in my head and I'm panicking!', and have amy say 'about what? I love you and you love me. No ring and piece of paper will make that better.' And have Sheldon say 'poppycock! Contracts make everything better and I'll prove it to you! Amy Farrah fowler, will you marry me?'

so long as the show doesn't manufacture any more drama to thrust aside the apparently happy and functional pair, that is...

Yeah, it's strange they gave up to a hell of an episode (and a cash cow) just like that, as it if were not a big deal. I think the most reasonable explanation, as many of you already mentioned, is that they are still in the middle of negotiations for more seasons to come or they already know for sure (even if not announced yet) that there will be more seasons, so they want\have to drag the proposal out and don't want the audience to wait every episode as it is the "one". They just say..."Relax, life is beautiful and nothing hurts" and don't think about it anymore. I hope they have a good plan b, to make things right, but up to now IMO they nailed the happy big Shamy moments, so I will give them credit, unless I'm proven wrong.  My impression, anyway, is still that they want  something unresolved for Shamy, something to be achieved in an uncertain future, since this plot worked more than fine with coitus for the last five years. The main difference here is that Sheldon seems ATM much more inclined towards marriage than he was towards coitus in Season 6, when they started to talk about it as a "possibility", he asked his mother the ring and was going to use it at least on one occasion, I don't see here any kind of struggle against his own fears and phobias, so I hope the plot will be handled in a different and quicker way (to be solved before Season 13, to be clear..).  On the other hand, who knows...we didn't expected coitus  literally few days after reconciliation, so for all we know, the next episode may as well be the "one"...

[Radar]

7 minutes ago, EvilStewie said:

In the US you wear both, but you wear the band first then put the engagement ring on ..that way the band is closer to your heart! It becomes like a set though

Thank you!! I knew I should have asked!

Well, in our region in Germany the man selects a matching set of rings. When (and if ) the proposal is accepted, fiancee and fiance both wear their respective ring. Shortly before the wedding the rings are taken to the jeweler to get them engraved. The future husband's name is engraved on the inside of the future wife's ring and vice versa. Some couples also add the wedding date. Thus the engagement ring becomes the wedding band. 

And I was wondering all the time if Sheldon had to get his great great grandfather's ring from Mary for himself for the wedding band. Much easier this way!  Thanks again!

[2L344]

1 hour ago, jenafan said:

You are correct.   Perhaps I am giving Penny too much credit, but here is why:

This is no way Penny could have known what was going to happen, but I think she was convinced it was in Amy's best interest to move on in spite of Sheldon's heartbreak.     Penny and Bernie had made mention to Amy a couple of times that it wouldn't be a bad idea for her to explore her options if Sheldon wasn't giving her everything she expected in the relationship.  She wasn't going to do anything to interfere with helping Amy return to a relationship that was status quo, because she didn't feel the relationship was healthy for her.   Amy needed time to figure out what it was she wanted, and Sheldon needed time to figure out if he was going to step up and become what Amy truly needs.

Now the "bad boyfriend" line still gets me.   Amy has been spending a lot of time defending her relationship with Sheldon, calling him the best boyfriend and gushing about how happy she was to be dating Sheldon Cooper, in spite of his quirks and occasional jerk behavior.    I'm wondering, if in her effort to vent to Penny, if it was Penny's idea for Amy to take a break, and if Penny was the one to convince her Sheldon was being a bad boyfriend.

I think Penny underestimated Sheldon's feelings for Amy and finding out about the ring was a wake up call to her.   I think she hoped when Sheldon walked out of the apartment with the ring that he would come back an engaged man.   It didn't happen, but I think if Amy had known about the ring, she would have taken Sheldon back.   The problem is, when Sheldon saw her kissing Dave, he lost interest in his determination thinking she'd rather be with someone else.   I think the moment convinced Sheldon she wanted something more than he was prepared to give; that notch on her bed post.   This would explain why the very first question he asked when they were together again was if she had had coitus, as Penny had him convinced that his unwillingness to put out was the main reason Amy broke up with him.

Perhaps Penny figured Amy had decided to move on and gain experience, and she was not going to stand in her way.   I think this was why she was so curious about her date with Dave.   She wanted to know who the man was that Amy had seemingly moved on with.   Hence, in the following episode, Penny praised Sheldon for going on the prowl for another girlfriend.   She had the attitude that if Amy is moving on with other opportunities, Sheldon should learn from his failed relationship with Amy and try as well.

When Amy called Sheldon to ask to be his girlfriend again, and Sheldon turned her down, I could see the look of regret in Penny's facial expression.   She knew he was in denial about his feelings.

In the end, Penny choosing not to tell Amy about the ring did Sheldon and Amy well.    Amy took Sheldon back status quo.  She is sure of what she wants.  However, by not having her do it sooner by knowing about the ring, it gave Sheldon a chance to grow and become a better man for her.   As Penny told Leonard in the kitchen in Earworm, "See, I told you if we left him alone, he would figure it out on his own."    That he did.

Penny picks and chooses when she wants to gossip.   She didn't tell Amy about the ring, but she and Bernie had little issue with telling Amy about Sheldon wanting to get physical.    So, in Penny's mind, telling Amy about the ring was bad.   Warning Amy about coitus coming was good.

I think Amy realizes that the break up did them both good, but perhaps she will still call Penny out on keeping vital information from her.     One thing that still has not been revealed to Amy, at least on screen, is that Sheldon witnessed her kissing Dave.   That is the reason she never got a chance to refuse or accept Sheldon's proposal.    Penny telling her about the ring wasn't going to change that.   Perhaps if she did and Amy went to Sheldon to discuss the matter, his rejection would have just come sooner as a man spurned, rather than one who realizes just how much he needs her in his life.   Sheldon needed more time to understand that being engaged to Amy to end the break and have her around him again wasn't enough.   Actions are well and good, but he needed to understand exactly what Amy meant to him, and how he had neglected in showing her emotionally and physically.

So, everyone's actions during the break up may have seemed heartless and not friend-like.   However, in all fairness, Amy was not talking.  No one really knew where she stood.  Now it seems her seemingly happy state of being without Sheldon was just a front to cover over the fact that she just didn't know what to do.  She seemed intent on wanting to be left alone and to move on away from Sheldon.   Her friends were just respecting her decision and helping her along, while encouraging Sheldon to do so as well.

Whether Amy will see it that way, knowing that Penny knew things that she didn't that may have prevented the length of the break up, remains to be seen.  However, I love the idea of a Penny/Amy interaction where we get more information about what Amy went through during those six months without Sheldon.   I want confirmation that she suffered heartbreak as much as Sheldon did.

The problem with how the breakup was portrayed, and you touch on it here, is that there were a lot of holes in the plot that were either not filled in on purpose or the limitations of a 20 minute ensemble sitcom prevented them from being filled. The writers couldn't make it 9 episodes of the Shamy show, though I'm sure Lenny shippers would disagree lol. I think we both agree that Amy's side wasn't explored and this was mostly the "Sheldon show" as far as perspectives go. This contributed to the off-putting, cold, distant, dispassionate (ad nausuem) way in which Amy came through for some of us. 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on our assessment of Penny when it comes to her behavior in this. You make the case that Penny thought it was in Amy's best interest to move on. I might accept that, as most people would have never put up with Sheldon's nonsense for that amount of time, but this IS Amy. She stood by him for five years. Penny would be making some assumptions by believing Amy is better off. It turns out that Amy DIDN'T think she was better off in the end, as the aquarium episode reveals. And like you mentioned, advice was doled out to Amy by Penny and Bernie so we can assume they talked over glasses of wine. If that was the case then the ladies must have been aware on some level what it was that Amy was going through. Certainly, Amy would have mentioned her frustration at Sheldon's seeming lack of commitment to her as a gf. If Penny truly had Amy's best interests at heart, then supplying her with the information about the ring would be in keeping  with the "best interest" mantra even if presumptious Penny thinks she knows what's good for Amy in the end. Withholding that info, as a "friend", in my opinion makes Penny just as meddlesome in Amy's affairs as telling her would be...

Sheldon is clueless about a lot of things, but what I like about him is there are times when he "gets it" when it comes to his friends (I know folks will cry foul at this and point out all the times Sheldon is a butthead to his friends lol). When he learns from Amy that Penny was contemplating leaving Leonard, does he just shrug his shoulders and say "oh well, Penny isn't right for Leonard anyway so be it"? No, he agonizes over the info and eventually breaks into Penny's apartment to try and convince her to see the good things Leonard brings to the table, in addition to having her switch shampoos back lol...he ultimately asks her not to hurt his friend. I already used this as another example, but Sheldon agonizes over what he believes is Penny having an affair while Leonard is away. He eventually bursts in on Penny using his spare key in order to confirm his suspicions. I'm sure that had he interrupted a date, he would surely have shared this with Leonard. To me, Sheldon's behavior is more in keeping with how friends who give a damn behave....ironic as that is...

I guess I would like friends, especially close friends, that care for one another act as if they DO. The characters in TBBT were shown in the first 9 episodes as somewhat blaise' about it all. They kind of shrug their collective shoulders and act as if it was destined to be what it was. Sheldon is pretty much abandoned by the group, whereas the gals rally behind Amy and encourage the dating scene (though Bernie does make half-hearted attempts to get Amy to think now and then). When Penny and Leonard learn of the ring, I thought just maybe now someone would give Sheldon a break and talk with Amy about it, if for no other reason, to make sure Amy is truly finished with the relationship. I would expect that of a friend. Just like I would expect a friend, who sees the wife of a friend making out with another guy in a darkened theater, share this info to the buddy. Because it's important and would impact that friend. I really don't think I would be very forgiving of a friend who chose to withhold this kind of info from me.

Penny gets a pass on keeping the secret because in the end, Shamy reunites and grows from the breakup without the ring playing a part. This, however, had nothing to do with Penny and anything she did or didn't do. The story was told in a way that has our happy couple reaching different levels of understanding about who they were and what they wanted in life. Penny gets to breathe a sigh of relief like we all do, but she can't take any credit for the reconciliation because she happened to show restraint in keeping the secret. Had this played out in real life, and had the couple remained miserable outside of each other's company because the story ended differently, I believe Penny would have a difficult time convincing Amy that she was a good friend for remaining silent about that bit of info. I'm thinking  "It was for your own good" would be carved into Penny's tombstone lol....

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by 2L344

[MsRajeshFowlerCooper]

2 hours ago, wowbagger said:

what is really interesting to me about Gorgon Meemaw (Meemawdusa?)'s reveal about the ring, is how pointedly the show took one possible cash cow and shot it in the back of the head. They didn't have ShAmy coitus on some sort of landmark anniversary episode, as I would have expected. So I was thinking that for sure they would spin out the proposal. But no. The writers have, very calmly, let the gas out of that particular balloon. Yes, there is a ring. Yes, there will be a proposal. No, there won't be any anxiety about whether it will happen. The question is really when and how. Cue speculation....

which is the Hitchcock approach (two hours of suspense, rather than one second of shock). I dig it, show. I dig it.

my preferred approach is still for the proposal to follow the prom episode and to have, I don't know, Lenny push Sheldon to propose to amy, have amy say to Sheldon 'you don't have to do it, you know' and for Sheldon to say 'of course not, but I want to. I've wanted to for months. Now go away and let me figure out the perfect proposal in peace, woman! I've built it up so much in my head and I'm panicking!', and have amy say 'about what? I love you and you love me. No ring and piece of paper will make that better.' And have Sheldon say 'poppycock! Contracts make everything better and I'll prove it to you! Amy Farrah fowler, will you marry me?'

so long as the show doesn't manufacture any more drama to thrust asunder the apparently happy and functional pair, that is...

I really enjoy your vision for the proposal, I think more than my own.   I had pictured it being something that shows Sheldon understands how much he feared not having control of things, and thus saw it taking place during a time of chaos, either real (such as an earthquake) or manufactured (having his friends create a moment of chaos, like Raj changing the temp in the apartment, Leonard sitting in his seat, and Howard doing a magic trick that releases a bunch of birds into his apartment).   I wanted Amy to be all worried about Sheldon freaking out about whatever and Sheldon realizing that with her next to him, he's not scared of everything anymore.  (I would also like at some point for him to say that his spot is next to her)

When I found out that Amy would learn about the ring, I had begun to imagine instead that they would both have an understanding that he has an elaborate plan that requires waiting.  While waiting, he would in the middle of something more mundane start to propose, and when she says, "what about your plan?" he would respond, "My whole life I had planned to be alone.  The day we met at the coffee shop, I had planned to tell you that I had no interest in seeing you again.  When we began to see other, I had planned for us to remain just friends.   The life you have given me, our life together, is so much better than anything I could have planned"  

But hey, there's a reason I don't write this show.  I'm just glad to see other people think about how that might go. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by MsRajeshFowlerCooper
spelling mistake

[CentralPerk]

11 hours ago, Radar said:

Interesting - the same thought came to my mind after reading the TR. An engagement ring is one of the most personal things, and as much as I liked the idea of a family heirloom in the beginning, I changed my mind about it. Not only because of the way the Meemaw episode played out. But I suddenly asked myself: Would I have wanted my husband's grandmother's ring? She was a wonderful woman who I loved dearly. Still the answer is definitely NO.

I was actually surprised when I realized this, since I am a pretty traditional person. And I would have loved to have a family heirloom as a present (a necklace, or even a ring), but not as an engagement ring. Since we were about to start our own family this was to be a symbol of something new we were creating together.

Yes, the more I think about it, I really have to say that I love the fact that my ring has been chosen by the one I love especially for me. 

I still think Amy will get the family heirloom, and I'm fine with it. Just saying if Sheldon will chose a new ring especially and just for Amy I won't be disappointed anymore, I will actually like it. 

 

I like the idea and the symbol of a family ring but I agree with you.

Now I imagine :

Meemaw : don't give her the ring.

Sheldon : I don't mind, I will give her an other engagement ring.

:D

[EvilStewie]

1 hour ago, CentralPerk said:

I like the idea and the symbol of a family ring but I agree with you.

Now I imagine :

Meemaw : don't give her the ring.

Sheldon : I don't mind, I will give her an other engagement ring.

:D

To me that is even more romantic! I don't like the idea of Amy gloating over it either! She didn't want me to have it but I got it anyway, Thats asking for bad Karma! Who knows maybe the reason Sheldon is waiting to get a new ring, and explain why he did it? I can't wait for this Meemaw episode.. I really can't even though I have fears..I won't have to wonder/worry anymore

Edited January 19, 2016 by EvilStewie

[jenafan]

1 hour ago, 2L344 said:

The problem with how the breakup was portrayed, and you touch on it here, is that there were a lot of holes in the plot that were either not filled in purposely or the limitations of a 20 minute ensemble sitcom prevented them from being filled. The writers couldn't make it 9 episodes of the Shamy show, though I'm sure Lenny shippers would disagree lol. I think we both agree that Amy's side wasn't explored and this was mostly the "Sheldon show" as far as perspectives go. This contributed to the off-putting, cold, distant, dispassionate (ad nausuem) way in which Amy came through for some of us. 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on our assessment of Penny when it comes to her behavior in this. You make the case that Penny thought it was in Amy's best interest to move on. I might accept that, as most people would have never put up with Sheldon's nonsense for that amount of time, but this IS Amy. She stood by him for five years. Penny would be making some assumptions by believing Amy is better off. It turns out that Amy DIDN'T think she was better off in the end, as the aquarium episode reveals. And like you mentioned, advice was doled out to Amy by Penny and Bernie so we can assume they talked over glasses of wine. If that was the case then the ladies must have been aware on some level what it was that Amy was going through. Certainly, Amy would have mentioned her frustration at Sheldon's seeming lack of commitment to her as a gf. If Penny truly had Amy's best interests at heart, then supplying her with the information about the ring would be in keeping  with the "best interest" mantra even if presumptious Penny thinks she knows what's good for Amy in the end. Withholding that info, as a "friend", in my opinion makes Penny just as meddlesome in Amy's affairs as telling her would be...

Sheldon is clueless about a lot of things, but what I like about him is there are times when he "gets it" when it comes to his friends (I know folks will cry foul at this and point out all the times Sheldon is a butthead to his friends lol). When he learns from Amy that Penny was contemplating leaving Leonard, does he just shrug his shoulders and say "oh well, Penny isn't right for Leonard anyway so be it"? No, he agonizes over the info and eventually breaks into Penny's apartment to try and convince her to see the good things Leonard brings to the table, in addition to having her switch shampoos back lol...he ultimately asks her not to hurt his friend. I already used this as another example, but Sheldon agonizes over what he believes is Penny having an affair while Leonard is away. He eventually bursts in on Penny using his spare key in order to confirm his suspicions. I'm sure that had he interrupted a date, he would surely have shared this with Leonard.

I guess I would like friends, especially close friends, that care for one another act as if they DO. The characters in TBBT were shown in the first 9 episodes as somewhat blaise' about it all. They kind of shrug their collective shoulders and act as if it was destined to be what it was. Sheldon is pretty much abandoned by the group, whereas the gals rally behind Amy and encourage the dating scene (though Bernie does make half-hearted attempts to get Amy to think now and then). When Penny and Leonard learn of the ring, I thought just maybe now someone would give Sheldon a break and talk with Amy about it if, for no other reason, than to make sure Amy is truly finished with the relationship. I would expect that of a friend. Just like I would expect a friend, who sees the wife of a friend making out with another guy in a darkened theater, share this info to the buddy. Because it's important and would impact that friend. I really don't think I would be very forgiving of a friend who chose to withhold this kind of info from me.

Penny gets a pass on keeping the secret because in the end, Shamy reunites and grows from the breakup without the ring playing a part. This, however, had nothing to do with Penny and anything she did or didn't do. The story was told in a way that has our happy couple reaching different levels of understanding about who they were and what they wanted in life. Penny gets to breathe a sigh of relief like we all do, but she can't take any credit for the reconciliation because she happened to show restraint in keeping the secret. Had this played out in real life, and had the couple remained miserable outside of each other's company because the story ended differently, I believe Penny would have a difficult time convincing Amy that she was a good friend for remaining silent about that bit of info. I'm thinking  "It was for your own good" would be carved into Penny's tombstone lol....

 

I appreciate your insight.   We both agree in wanting to know more of Amy's side; her thoughts, feelings, and what she went through.   Yes, we all know that Sheldon didn't treat her as a priority, that Amy was tired, and that she wanted Sheldon back status quo.   I want to know what helped her come to that conclusion.   Was it just missing him?  Did she realize that she got confused between what she wanted versus what everyone else thought she should have?   What about Sheldon's annoyances?   It's clear that he still exasperates her, but why is she willing to put up with it to be with him?  Why does she love him in spite of it?   What did the six month absence teach her?

I, too, am surprised if Penny couldn't believe Amy went through with breaking up with Sheldon, why she didn't reach out to make sure that Amy was sure about her decision.   When she called Amy before her wedding, she asked Amy if she was all right, not if she was sure about what happened.  My only conclusion is because Penny thought Amy did the right thing. 

If Amy were talking to the girls about the break up and what she was going through over wine, etc. why didn't we get any of that onscreen?  I am thinking that it was because it never happened.   Amy talked about her single life, but not once did she really bring up the reasons for her break up, how she was feeling etc.  In fact, I was mad at Amy because she seemed all too happy to have Sheldon out of her life after having told him that she loved him over their break up Skype session.   I think the fact she kept things close to the vest and did not reveal to the girls is indicated by their not even knowing she was dating.

I don't think any of the friends took Shamy's relationship seriously enough to want to get involved in helping to restore it.   Penny thought Sheldon was wrong for not putting out.   Penny encouraged Amy to change her Facebook status and to dress sexier to attract men.     Howard thought Amy was being held in a dungeon by her master and had found her escape.   Leonard thought Amy deserved to be happy and tried to encourage Sheldon to move on.   Bernadette thought Sheldon was a weirdo and tried to push Stuart on her.  Raj just thought Sheldon was downright annoying, and like he told Sheldon, he really didn't care.    I think what it all boils down to, is that even though Sheldon was their friend, they felt Amy was better off without him.    Initially, I think they thought Sheldon was just having a temper tantrum for losing his playmate, not the woman he claimed to love.

Of all of them, Bernadette seemed to be the only one who had some reservations about Amy's actions and questioned her behavior.   I think Bernadette had a little bit of a soft spot for Sheldon all along.  She was the one who went to the curtains to open them after Sheldon was shut out of the wedding viewing.  After all, she was the one that Sheldon revealed his love for Amy to while Christmas shopping.   Howard and Raj did not change their attitude until after Sheldon challenged Kripke when they realized just how hurt Sheldon was.   Leonard and Penny's changed after the revealing of the ring, even to the point of making breakfast for him the next morning because they wanted to help him feel better over what he saw.   This was when everyone really started questioning Sheldon's behavior, even Raj and Howard upon his request to look for a new GF.  

You are absolutely correct in that Penny gets no credit at all for the reconciliation, and this was not what I was trying to say.  I think what I am trying to say is if Penny had told Amy about the ring, I don't think the reconciliation would have occurred for the right reasons, nor do I think the growth between Sheldon and Amy would have happened the way it did.   As you said, she gets a free pass, because everything ended up working out.

In the end, I think the writers were not out to make Penny or the rest of the gang good friends to Sheldon or Amy.   The writers wanted Sheldon and Amy to figure it all out for themselves.   Amy initiated the break up.   Amy initiated the reconciliation.   Sheldon refused, proving that he didn't want Amy back for the sake of having her.   His heart was at stake, and he didn't want to take another risk.   Sheldon then realized his mistake, admitted to his feelings, and asked her to take him back if it was what she wanted because it was what he wanted.    None of this would have happened if Penny had been the friend you and I wanted or thought she should be.

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by jenafan

[nibbler747]

I'm glad that Sheldon stood up to his Meemaw and defended Amy, but I ultimately want Meemaw to love and accept Amy, because she is such an important person to Sheldon.  It would suck to always have this tension between two people he loves dearly.  Perhaps something will happen in the future that will show MeeMaw that Amy truly loves Sheldon, and then she will be 100% on board.  I'm thinking this will not be the last time we see MeeMaw.

As for the friends behavior discussion, let's just say I was totally not impressed.  From Penny and Leonard not inviting him to watch the wedding, to all friends basically telling him over and over than Amy deserves better and that's not him.   I could feel him falling into the pit where he was hurt and confused, and all that he really understood was that he was not good boyfriend material.   Was this all so, that he would figure it out by himself without outside influence?  Perhaps.  But I saw the whole thing as quite cruel to him.  Amy and Sheldon were both encouraged to date right away, when both were clearly not ready.  I think anyone coming fresh out of a 5 year relationship, should probably spend some quality "me" time figuring things out and not jump right into another relationship.  This was both of their "first" relationship, so they really don't know better, but I would have hoped their friends could have at least guided them in this regard.

[EvilStewie]

3 hours ago, nibbler747 said:

I'm glad that Sheldon stood up to his Meemaw and defended Amy, but I ultimately want Meemaw to love and accept Amy, because she is such an important person to Sheldon.  It would suck to always have this tension between two people he loves dearly.  Perhaps something will happen in the future that will show MeeMaw that Amy truly loves Sheldon, and then she will be 100% on board.  I'm thinking this will not be the last time we see MeeMaw.

 

I have been nervous since I found out she was coming, then I read the TR... I hope you're right about another episode..cause I really don't know about what I have heard so far.. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by EvilStewie

[kazzie]

I think Meemaw will warm to Amy. They seemed to have stubborn partners in common and looked as if they were starting  to bond before Sheldon came into defend Amy. Meemaw is just protective of Sheldon. I don't think this is the end of this storyline though. there's no way they can leave the story line with Meemaw where it is. At a guess I think she will be back.

[Desdemona]

I´m really curious about tonights episode. I read something, but I´m not sure if it´s true, because sometimes they changed the information in the last second, so I´m not spoiling here, because I don´t want people to get disappointed, if my information turns out to be wrong. But now, that they spent one night together in Amy´s bed, I want Sheldon to set a sign, letting Amy get into his private room.

They could spent the night watching a film. While they talk, they forget about time, untill they realize that it´s too late, for Amy to go, so Sheldon asks her if she wants to stay over night. Amy says yes and wants to pull out her things under the sofa, when Sheldon replies that her package is not there anymore and walks out the room, telling Amy to follow him. They walk into his dormitory, where he opens a drawer. Amy looks into the drawer and finds her things there. She looks at Sheldon who explains: "I thought it was about time that you get your own place for your things in my room. And my bed. But I´ll sleep on the right side."

Amy would surely freak out!

Or they watch the film, but Amy falls asleep, so Sheldon lifts her up and carries her in his arms to his dormitory, where he puts her into his bed, undresses himself, puts his pyjama on, gets into the bed and spoons with her while he falls asleep. It would be cute!

 

 

[EvilStewie]

14 minutes ago, kazzie said:

I think Meemaw will warm to Amy. They seemed to have stubborn partners in common and looked as if they were starting  to bond before Sheldon came into defend Amy. Meemaw is just protective of Sheldon. I don't think this is the end of this storyline though. there's no way they can leave the story line with Meemaw where it is. At a guess I think she will be back.

Thank you, that is a relief for me... From what I read in TR, It really does seem it will need more resolution. In your opinion, ( I know you saw the episode) How was the "I guess" said?

[Stephen Hawking]

On 1/18/2016 at 5:18 AM, DrWackaDoodle said:

Maybe a quick one liner from Amy like, "is it ever... hoo!" #fanficdreams 

While Amy's statement would be amusing, it would not be truthful.

Indeed, there would be great difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the stated epithet, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information she would have  communicated, and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems, of sufficient magnitude, to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language, a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Stephen Hawking

[kazzie]

21 minutes ago, EvilStewie said:

Thank you, that is a relief for me... From what I read in TR, It really does seem it will need more resolution. In your opinion, ( I know you saw the episode) How was the "I guess" said?

I felt it was more of admission of defeat. 

[EvilStewie]

3 minutes ago, kazzie said:

I felt it was more of admission of defeat. 

Thats better then what I was fearing it was

[2L344]

1 hour ago, jenafan said:

I appreciate your insight.   We both agree in wanting to know more of Amy's side; her thoughts, feelings, and what she went through.   Yes, we all know that Sheldon didn't treat her as a priority, that Amy was tired, and that she wanted Sheldon back status quo.   I want to know what helped her come to that conclusion.   Was it just missing him?  Did she realize that she got confused between what she wanted versus what everyone else thought she should have?   What about Sheldon's annoyances?   It's clear that he still exasperates her, but why is she willing to put up with it to be with him?  Why does she love him in spite of it?   What did the six month absence teach her?

I, too, am surprised if Penny couldn't believe Amy went through with breaking up with Sheldon, why she didn't reach out to make sure that Amy was sure about her decision.   When she called Amy before her wedding, she asked Amy if she was all right, not if she was sure about what happened.  My only conclusion is because Penny thought Amy did the right thing. 

If Amy were talking to the girls about the break up and what she was going through over wine, etc. why didn't we get any of that onscreen?  I am thinking that it was because it never happened.   Amy talked about her single life, but not once did she really bring up the reasons for her break up, how she was feeling etc.  In fact, I was mad at Amy because she seemed all too happy to have Sheldon out of her life after having told him that she loved him over their break up Skype session.   I think the fact she kept things close to the vest and did not reveal to the girls is indicated by their not even knowing she was dating.

I don't think any of the friends took Shamy's relationship seriously enough to want to get involved in helping to restore it.   Penny thought Sheldon was wrong for not putting out.   Penny encouraged Amy to change her Facebook status and to dress sexier to attract men.     Howard thought Amy was being held in a dungeon by her master and had found her escape.   Leonard thought Amy deserved to be happy and tried to encourage Sheldon to move on.   Bernadette thought Sheldon was a weirdo and tried to push Stuart on her.  Raj just thought Sheldon was downright annoying, and like he told Sheldon, he really didn't care.    I think what it all boils down to, is that even though Sheldon was their friend, they felt Amy was better off without him.    Initially, I think they thought Sheldon was just having a temper tantrum for losing his playmate, not the woman he claimed to love.

Of all of them, Bernadette seemed to be the only one who had some reservations about Amy's actions and questioned her behavior.   I think Bernadette had a little bit of a soft spot for Sheldon all along.  She was the one who went to the curtains to open them after Sheldon was shut out of the wedding viewing.  After all, she was the one that Sheldon revealed his love for Amy to while Christmas shopping.   Howard and Raj did not change their attitude until after Sheldon challenged Kripke when they realized just how hurt Sheldon was.   Leonard and Penny's changed after the revealing of the ring, even to the point of making breakfast for him the next morning because they wanted to help him feel better over what he saw.   This was when everyone really started questioning Sheldon's behavior, even Raj and Howard upon his request to look for a new GF.  

You are absolutely correct in that Penny gets no credit at all for the reconciliation, and this was not what I was trying to say.  I think what I am trying to say is if Penny had told Amy about the ring, I don't think the reconciliation would have occurred for the right reasons, nor do I think the growth between Sheldon and Amy would have happened the way it did.   As you said, she gets a free pass, because everything ended up working out.

In the end, I think the writers were not out to make Penny or the rest of the gang good friends to Sheldon or Amy.   The writers wanted Sheldon and Amy to figure it all out for themselves.   Amy initiated the break up.   Amy initiated the reconciliation.   Sheldon refused, proving that he didn't want Amy back for the sake of having her.   His heart was at stake, and he didn't want to take another risk.   Sheldon then realized his mistake, admitted to his feelings, and asked her to take him back if it was what she wanted because it was what he wanted.    None of this would have happened if Penny had been the friend you and I wanted or thought she should be.

 

Yup I pretty much agree with all of what you say here. The writers are writing the story the way they want, of course, and we are the audience and get to enjoy what they have to offer. My comments on the ring thing all along have been merely to support my opinion that in having Penny remain silent on it, the writers have portrayed her to be a not-so- good friend with that act. I think we started talking about this again, now that water is under the bridge, because someone posted that it wasn't any of Penny's business to reveal it any more than it was Meemaw's lol. 

You are absolutely correct when you say our current storyline could not have happened with the revelation of that ring. The pieces of the puzzle that the writers created for this plot line would not have fit together had Amy learned of what was in store for her had she not ended the relationship. I doubt the writers were going for character development for Penny when they wrote it that way, and Penny being viewed as possibly being a bad friend was irrelevant and not considered at all.

Im just saying her act of withholding that info sucked as far as what a friend would/should/could do. But like you, I am way past caring about those nuances since the breakup was resolved. I'm happy the kiddos are back and better and I'm eager for more of it. It's interesting though, that this latest development with Meemaw, her discontent with Amy, and her revelation of that ring, has some of us all revisiting the breakup angst all over again lol!

[kelliluvtbbt]

6 hours ago, kimbee73 said:

 

 

On a fun note regarding Kripke in the episode tonight: I would love for Amy to find out about the imaginary sex life Sheldon made up and have Kripke say something along the lines of the sex must have been have been really good for you to go back to him. And Amy to be like what are you talking about and Kripke telling her everything and she be like oh yeah it was great....then speaking to Sheldon later and it could be really funny.....no drama though....she could say.....I saved your butt but you could have warned me.

 

this... but she says , "now that we are in a physical relationship, you just lost sex tonight" and he looks at her stunned at first but thinks about it and gets kind of sad.

ok... i'll  just go back to reading people's comments again ...

Edited January 19, 2016 by kelliluvtbbt

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

It. Is. Tuesday Taping day!

I've not been well  so if TPTB sprinkle a little bit of Shamy glitter in tonights episode that would really cheer me up  <3 

[kimbee73]

 

 

On a fun note regarding Kripke in the episode tonight: I would love for Amy to find out about the imaginary sex life Sheldon made up and have Kripke say something along the lines of the sex must have been have been really good for you to go back to him. And Amy to be like what are you talking about and Kripke telling her everything and she be like oh yeah it was great....then speaking to Sheldon later and it could be really funny.....no drama though....she could say.....I saved your butt but you could have warned me.

 

this... but she says , "now that we are in a physical relationship, you just lost sex tonight" and he looks at her stunned at first but thinks about it and gets kind of sad.

ok... i'll  just go back to reading people's comments again ...

Love this^^^^^^^^^^

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Susana Alcira]

"198"?  With an arrow!?  May be the days SHAMY lived  broken  up? They were celebrating their fifth aniversary and they broke up two days after. ( Their first met was one Saturday at the end of May 2010) And  they reconcilied one Saturday at the beginning of December........

I know it is a crazy, crazy idea, but ...ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN!!!

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Desdemona said:

I´m really curious about tonights episode. I read something, but I´m not sure if it´s true, because sometimes they changed the information in the last second, so I´m not spoiling here, because I don´t want people to get disappointed, if my information turns out to be wrong. But now, that they spent one night together in Amy´s bed, I want Sheldon to set a sign, letting Amy get into his private room.

They could spent the night watching a film. While they talk, they forget about time, untill they realize that it´s too late, for Amy to go, so Sheldon asks her if she wants to stay over night. Amy says yes and wants to pull out her things under the sofa, when Sheldon replies that her package is not there anymore and walks out the room, telling Amy to follow him. They walk into his dormitory, where he opens a drawer. Amy looks into the drawer and finds her things there. She looks at Sheldon who explains: "I thought it was about time that you get your own place for your things in my room. And my bed. But I´ll sleep on the right side."

Amy would surely freak out!

Or they watch the film, but Amy falls asleep, so Sheldon lifts her up and carries her in his arms to his dormitory, where he puts her into his bed, undresses himself, puts his pyjama on, gets into the bed and spoons with her while he falls asleep. It would be cute!

 

 

Cute but it sounds like fan fiction to me.

[Desdemona]

7 minutes ago, lpm said:

Cute but it sounds like fan fiction to me.

Ok, I must admit the last option is really fanfiction, since I´ve never seen him carrying something on his own. Except that tiny hamper with soaps and lotions for Penny.

But an overnight stay at 4a in Sheldon´s bed could be possible one day, after he had slept in Amy´s bed.  He got used to a lot of things, he never thought that could be possible. He even got used to kiss her after he´s kissed her once. Who knows maybe he liked to cuddle with his little lump of wool, that he agrees to do again? He seemed ok, when he heard that Amy  hid her belongings all over his place. So I guess he could be ok, to leave at least a little corner in his drawer for her.

It won´t happen that soon, I know but a girl can dream.

But I can see it as another baby step for our Shamy to get used Sheldon to live together with Amy one day.

[Ranger Rosa]

When Kripke, Sheldon and Amy are together at a same storyline I always hope that Kripke talk about their sex life, make a weird comment, something like this. Sadly it still didn't happened til now, so I'll stop wanting it, maybe today is the lucky day!