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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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6 hours ago, Lionne said:

A new TR will only help if it doesn't have anything to do with Amy and Sheldon's break up. Both the V-Day episode and the Meemaw episode put the break up front and center, which is why we're arguing about it all over again. Damn you, show, but why do we have to carry on about this fucking break up when you sweep so much else under the rug?

I used to have someone like Sheldon in my life, and this is partly why I get my back up against this "respect your elders" business, because it was one of my grandmothers. Her own friends called her "a neanderthal." She's actually manic depressive, or whatever you call that these days, but back from the time when the only treatment for that was alcohol, so she's a bipolar alcoholic, and you can't even imagine how lovely that is to deal with for more than 5 seconds.

And it is difficult, because after years of begging and pleading with her to be treated better, and dealing with all the insults and such, I had to cut off my relationship with her. However, there were plenty of people who felt you have to "respect your elders" and "but she's your grandmother" and I've literally had people grab me by my elbow and drag her to her on her request because they simply feel I HAVE to love her and I HAVE to get along with her and I HAVE to sit there and take insults from her simply because of the matter of blood and age, and let me tell you: that's bullshit. I don't care who is older or how people are blood related, no one has to take abuse from anyone. And this includes the fact that Amy doesn't have to answer to Meemaw or take one ounce of her abuse. I love the fact that Meemaw dishes out her "maybe I don't like you" and Amy dishes that medicine right back at her, with "maybe I don't like you!"

Amy isn't obligated to bow to anyone who is treating her like dirt. Amy has been through enough of that sort of bullying, sheltering and abuse in her life already, and she doesn't need to take another ounce of it from anyone, not even Meemaw. Not because she broke up with Sheldon. I'm sorry, Amy has the right to break up with Sheldon, it's NOT something she should or has to apologize for. Of course breaking up with Sheldon hurts him, and she knew that, but between staying with him or her self-respect, she had to chose her self-respect and he's the one who put her into that position. She might regret hurting him, but still feel she did what she had to do, especially at the time, and it's just not something to apologize for.

Couldn't agree more! Thank you!

And believe me, I know and understand what you are talking about. Actually the similarities between your story and mine scared me...It wasn't my grandma, it was someone even closer...

Edited by Radar
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Morning peeps! Let me clear up and give a more in depth shamy reportings!   There were 2 takes of the second kiss... As they finish kissing the first time round. They break apart. Sheld

Ok fellow Shamies, I typed up this report on the plane home just now. I've just landed and have another hour or so until I'll be home, but I thought I'd post this at least for you all real quick.  Sor

Oh...I thought someone has already posted a TR? No? Ok. First of all, English is not my first language, so I may have misunderstood a lot of the lines. Please forgive me if the episode turns out

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14 hours ago, wowbagger said:

as to the plea to give that poor dead horse a break: I do sympathise, I do, but unfortunately the show has a role to play in this. It has chosen to bring up the breakup and how it affected Sheldon in two episodes now, and to do so in a way that sound, to me, profoundly unsatisfying. And yes, to play into the 'blame' arena.

for the record: I do not think that Amy should apologise, per se, for the breakup. Why should she? She wasn't happy in her relationship and she walked. Yes, Sheldon's feelings were hurt, but that doesn't mean that Amy should endure an unsatisfying relationship.

but it does feel, to me, that every time that the show seems to be getting close to some sense of Amy's REASONS for the break, and importantly what changed in the intervening six months for her to come to the conclusion that a pleasant afternoon with Sheldon was sufficient for her to want to try again-every time we are getting close to fleshing out some of that conjectured offscreen development- the show pulls out the 'blame' card. So it sometimes feels like:

me: So, amy, welcome back. What did you learn when going walkabout?

show: Amy is the fabric softener to Sheldon's heart!

me: Firstly, that line has me reaching for a bucket. Secondly, I knew that?

show: Awwww, see the pretty making out!

me: Very nice. Why was amy flocking back to dave when she knows that what she wants is Sheldon? She....knows she doesn't actually have to date a dude immediately after breaking up with someone, right? She knows she can take time to herself?

show: You're right!

me: I am? What did she learn?

show: Amy makes Sheldon a better man!

me: I mean- I would hope he makes her a better woman too, otherwise what is in it for her?

show: Look! Coitus!

me: ....is that your answer? That's why amy left? It can't be! She came back with no conditions!

show: Look at the pretty coitus!

me: Very nice. No really, very nice. But I mean- look, amy is frequently still patient but exasperated with him. What changed? What did she learn that prompted her to return, if you are going to the same well of eye-rolling with her so often? Why not some other sort of story? Ot doesn't only have to be with Sheldon. Why aren't you letting her display some growth and learning too?

show (through meemaw): How do we know you won't leave again, amy?

me: Er-bluntly put, but reasonably fair point. Yes, Amy. What have you learned and what changed?

show: You don't know what amy puts up with!

me: Yes I do! A lot! A whole freaking lot! Way more than she should! But what-

show: She's Sheldon's best shot!

me: She is his ONLY shot. He doesn't want anyone else. Again, we knew this. What did Amy learn? What has changed? If she wanted back in unconditionally, why did you also have her randomly drift through dates with pasty weirdos (hat tip to borealis)?

show: Let's have raj ask her!

me: Raj? Okay, please have Amy tick him off as well?

show: No raj is a kind gentle romantic who deserves infinite understanding.

me: The hell? No he isn't. Get amy to tick him off!

show: (amy sets up dating service for raj)

me: Facepalm, but okay whatever. Hey, amy, what prompted all that listless rudderless drifting anyway? What have you learned from that time?

show: Sheldon's fine by the way!

me: That isn't what I was asking.

show: Sheldon thinks all this was necessary for him!

me: Ew. But what about amy?

show: Sheldon doesn't blame amy and you shouldn't either!

me: I DON'T blame amy. I just want to understand -

show: Sheldon is better than ever!

me: Never mind.

LOL...Perfect!  I think I need to read this everyday to keep my sanity.  The show creates momentum, hints at possibilities, but then when viewers get caught up in it, thinking there is progress, the show is like,  "Oh you mean you actually wanted us to do something with that?"  Ok look, quickie reconciliations, quickie wedding, quickie coitus, growth for popular characters, but same old, same old, if not regression for disposable characters.  No hard feelings though right?

BTW...I don't think I have laughed so hard since Thanksgiving Decoupling, so many thanks.

Edited by Touche
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4 hours ago, wowbagger said:

as to the plea to give that poor dead horse a break: I do sympathise, I do, but unfortunately the show has a role to play in this. It has chosen to bring up the breakup and how it affected Sheldon in two episodes now, and to do so in a way that sound, to me, profoundly unsatisfying. And yes, to play into the 'blame' arena.

for the record: I do not think that Amy should apologise, per se, for the breakup. Why should she? She wasn't happy in her relationship and she walked. Yes, Sheldon's feelings were hurt, but that doesn't mean that Amy should endure an unsatisfying relationship.

but it does feel, to me, that every time that the show seems to be getting close to some sense of Amy's REASONS for the break, and importantly what changed in the intervening six months for her to come to the conclusion that a pleasant afternoon with Sheldon was sufficient for her to want to try again-every time we are getting close to fleshing out some of that conjectured offscreen development- the show pulls out the 'blame' card. So it sometimes feels like:

me: So, amy, welcome back. What did you learn when going walkabout?

show: Amy is the fabric softener to Sheldon's heart!

me: Firstly, that line has me reaching for a bucket. Secondly, I knew that?

show: Awwww, see the pretty making out!

me: Very nice. Why was amy flocking back to dave when she knows that what she wants is Sheldon? She....knows she doesn't actually have to date a dude immediately after breaking up with someone, right? She knows she can take time to herself?

show: You're right!

me: I am? What did she learn?

show: Amy makes Sheldon a better man!

me: I mean- I would hope he makes her a better woman too, otherwise what is in it for her?

show: Look! Coitus!

me: ....is that your answer? That's why amy left? It can't be! She came back with no conditions!

show: Look at the pretty coitus!

me: Very nice. No really, very nice. But I mean- look, amy is frequently still patient but exasperated with him. What changed? What did she learn that prompted her to return, if you are going to the same well of eye-rolling with her so often? Why not some other sort of story? Ot doesn't only have to be with Sheldon. Why aren't you letting her display some growth and learning too?

show (through meemaw): How do we know you won't leave again, amy?

me: Er-bluntly put, but reasonably fair point. Yes, Amy. What have you learned and what changed?

show: You don't know what amy puts up with!

me: Yes I do! A lot! A whole freaking lot! Way more than she should! But what-

show: She's Sheldon's best shot!

me: She is his ONLY shot. He doesn't want anyone else. Again, we knew this. What did Amy learn? What has changed? If she wanted back in unconditionally, why did you also have her randomly drift through dates with pasty weirdos (hat tip to borealis)?

show: Let's have raj ask her!

me: Raj? Okay, please have Amy tick him off as well?

show: No raj is a kind gentle romantic who deserves infinite understanding.

me: The hell? No he isn't. Get amy to tick him off!

show: (amy sets up dating service for raj)

me: Facepalm, but okay whatever. Hey, amy, what prompted all that listless rudderless drifting anyway? What have you learned from that time?

show: Sheldon's fine by the way!

me: That isn't what I was asking.

show: Sheldon thinks all this was necessary for him!

me: Ew. But what about amy?

show: Sheldon doesn't blame amy and you shouldn't either!

me: I DON'T blame amy. I just want to understand -

show: Sheldon is better than ever!

me: Never mind.

I agree with some of this, but not all. But mostly, I'm quoting because it's hysterical and made me lol for real! I love the way you word things and your perspective (though sometimes different from my own), wowbagger.

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4 hours ago, wowbagger said:

as to the plea to give that poor dead horse a break: I do sympathise, I do, but unfortunately the show has a role to play in this. It has chosen to bring up the breakup and how it affected Sheldon in two episodes now, and to do so in a way that sound, to me, profoundly unsatisfying. And yes, to play into the 'blame' arena.

for the record: I do not think that Amy should apologise, per se, for the breakup. Why should she? She wasn't happy in her relationship and she walked. Yes, Sheldon's feelings were hurt, but that doesn't mean that Amy should endure an unsatisfying relationship.

but it does feel, to me, that every time that the show seems to be getting close to some sense of Amy's REASONS for the break, and importantly what changed in the intervening six months for her to come to the conclusion that a pleasant afternoon with Sheldon was sufficient for her to want to try again-every time we are getting close to fleshing out some of that conjectured offscreen development- the show pulls out the 'blame' card. So it sometimes feels like:

me: So, amy, welcome back. What did you learn when going walkabout?

show: Amy is the fabric softener to Sheldon's heart!

me: Firstly, that line has me reaching for a bucket. Secondly, I knew that?

show: Awwww, see the pretty making out!

me: Very nice. Why was amy flocking back to dave when she knows that what she wants is Sheldon? She....knows she doesn't actually have to date a dude immediately after breaking up with someone, right? She knows she can take time to herself?

show: You're right!

me: I am? What did she learn?

show: Amy makes Sheldon a better man!

me: I mean- I would hope he makes her a better woman too, otherwise what is in it for her?

show: Look! Coitus!

me: ....is that your answer? That's why amy left? It can't be! She came back with no conditions!

show: Look at the pretty coitus!

me: Very nice. No really, very nice. But I mean- look, amy is frequently still patient but exasperated with him. What changed? What did she learn that prompted her to return, if you are going to the same well of eye-rolling with her so often? Why not some other sort of story? Ot doesn't only have to be with Sheldon. Why aren't you letting her display some growth and learning too?

show (through meemaw): How do we know you won't leave again, amy?

me: Er-bluntly put, but reasonably fair point. Yes, Amy. What have you learned and what changed?

show: You don't know what amy puts up with!

me: Yes I do! A lot! A whole freaking lot! Way more than she should! But what-

show: She's Sheldon's best shot!

me: She is his ONLY shot. He doesn't want anyone else. Again, we knew this. What did Amy learn? What has changed? If she wanted back in unconditionally, why did you also have her randomly drift through dates with pasty weirdos (hat tip to borealis)?

show: Let's have raj ask her!

me: Raj? Okay, please have Amy tick him off as well?

show: No raj is a kind gentle romantic who deserves infinite understanding.

me: The hell? No he isn't. Get amy to tick him off!

show: (amy sets up dating service for raj)

me: Facepalm, but okay whatever. Hey, amy, what prompted all that listless rudderless drifting anyway? What have you learned from that time?

show: Sheldon's fine by the way!

me: That isn't what I was asking.

show: Sheldon thinks all this was necessary for him!

me: Ew. But what about amy?

show: Sheldon doesn't blame amy and you shouldn't either!

me: I DON'T blame amy. I just want to understand -

show: Sheldon is better than ever!

me: Never mind.

BRiLLIANT!

GCLlQnV7wzKLu.gif

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8 hours ago, Lionne said:

A new TR will only help if it doesn't have anything to do with Amy and Sheldon's break up. Both the V-Day episode and the Meemaw episode put the break up front and center, which is why we're arguing about it all over again. Damn you, show, but why do we have to carry on about this fucking break up when you sweep so much else under the rug?

I used to have someone like Sheldon in my life, and this is partly why I get my back up against this "respect your elders" business, because it was one of my grandmothers. Her own friends called her "a neanderthal." She's actually manic depressive, or whatever you call that these days, but back from the time when the only treatment for that was alcohol, so she's a bipolar alcoholic, and you can't even imagine how lovely that is to deal with for more than 5 seconds.

And it is difficult, because after years of begging and pleading with her to be treated better, and dealing with all the insults and such, I had to cut off my relationship with her. However, there were plenty of people who felt you have to "respect your elders" and "but she's your grandmother" and I've literally had people grab me by my elbow and drag her to her on her request because they simply feel I HAVE to love her and I HAVE to get along with her and I HAVE to sit there and take insults from her simply because of the matter of blood and age, and let me tell you: that's bullshit. I don't care who is older or how people are blood related, no one has to take abuse from anyone. And this includes the fact that Amy doesn't have to answer to Meemaw or take one ounce of her abuse. I love the fact that Meemaw dishes out her "maybe I don't like you" and Amy dishes that medicine right back at her, with "maybe I don't like you!"

Amy isn't obligated to bow to anyone who is treating her like dirt. Amy has been through enough of that sort of bullying, sheltering and abuse in her life already, and she doesn't need to take another ounce of it from anyone, not even Meemaw. Not because she broke up with Sheldon. I'm sorry, Amy has the right to break up with Sheldon, it's NOT something she should or has to apologize for. Of course breaking up with Sheldon hurts him, and she knew that, but between staying with him or her self-respect, she had to chose her self-respect and he's the one who put her into that position. She might regret hurting him, but still feel she did what she had to do, especially at the time, and it's just not something to apologize for.

Totally agree with this whole post.!!!...IMO I think that if Amy had caved and became more meek and tried to smooth things over with Meemaw rather than defend herself....Meemaw would have never backed down in the end and given her blessing even with Sheldon defending Amy..... cause lets face it, you need to be a very strong person with a lot of patience to be able to be in a relationship with Sheldon and still retain who you are and still be able to see and appreciate and love, who he is under all the difficulties his personality throws at people......being a doormat is not healthy for either of them.  Sheldon is and always will be a challenge, and I think that Amy is totally up to it!!

In regards to the bolded part.....I would like to add that I think (my opinion only of course) that not only did Amy choose self respect, she was also choosing to step away from someone who (even if unknowingly) hurt her on a regular basis....Amy's character has always been fairly stoic (except when really happy), and I don't believe for one second that she wasn't also hurting in that break up....in fact they made it clear a couple times exactly how much her heart was breaking....she doesn't need to be in tears constantly, or even talking about it constantly for it to be true (and yes it is frustrating to the viewer who just wants to see some obvious signs).....I know plenty of people who feel deeply and who go through very painful times looking like nothing is touching them, but it is there underneath the camo; and no one who deals with pain should have to justify it with tears and big huge displays.....Amy in fact in past episodes will often leave, and segregate herself rather than put her hurt on display....lol......the exact opposite of Sheldon in this regard.

Anyway in the end I am sure that Amy and Meemaw will love each other, but they will never back down from each other when it comes to someone they both love very much, and that is the way it should be.

 

Edited by S.L Farrell
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9 minutes ago, S.L Farrell said:

Totally agree with this whole post.!!!...IMO I think that if Amy had caved and became more meek and tried to smooth things over with Meemaw rather than defend herself....Meemaw would have never backed down in the end and given her blessing even with Sheldon defending Amy..... cause lets face it, you need to be a very strong person with a lot of patience to be able to be in a relationship with Sheldon and still retain who you are and still be able to see and appreciate who he is under all the difficulties his personality throws at people......being a doormat is not healthy for either of them.  Sheldon is and always will be a challenge, and I think that Amy is totally up to it!!

Agree! And I'm really curious about how Meemaw's statement as to 'do we have your blessing' comes across. According to the TR her 'I guess so' was unenthusiastic. I wondered if that was because she was actually intrigued, that she couldn't believe that this woman had such an influence on Sheldon, that she actually helped him grow up. So saying 'I guess so' and thinking 'wow, is this really happening??'.

Well, the Amy-fan is speaking. Probably wishful thinking. :icon_redface:

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@Lionne:   I think out of all the pro-Amy posts, yours have had the biggest affect on really helping me to understand Amy's position better, and I agree she had every reason to need the break up, etc.    However, I disagree with the notion that she should not offer some sort of apology to Sheldon.   An apology or expression of empathy is not necessarily an admission of wrong-doing, nor is it an indication that the other person is right.     It would be a statement to indicate Amy values her relationship and Sheldon's feelings more than her pride, and it makes a big difference in the length of time it takes to heal over a setback.

Sheldon was extremely heartbroken by the way the break up was handled, and I think she should acknowledge that even though she initiated it, she understands and that it wasn't a bowl of cherries for her either.   

Seeing Sheldon take all the blame and accepting his growth in the breakup is all well and good, but it just seems to me that by making it all about himself,  Sheldon is avoiding any and all information pertaining to the pain Amy caused him and is in denial that he feels insecure.    She told him she needed time to think and re-evaluate their situation, not that she was looking for something else.  Sheldon can't continue to blame himself and ignore the fact that Amy's dating behavior during the break up affected him profoundly.    I'm sure interrupting a date with the same man he caught her kissing is scarred in his eidetic memory.   I wonder if he wonders if she is still a flight risk because it has been etched into his brain that he has been the bad boyfriend, and if he doesn't fit her bill now, she will just find someone else.

In addition, by Amy continuing to put 100% blame on Sheldon, or so it seems, she is failing to accept any responsibility for her part in discontinuing communication with Sheldon on the matter, which caused his frustration to get out of hand.    She needs to stop playing the 100% victim and realize that Sheldon was also a victim.

Avoiding accountability and responsibility is a recipe for destruction in a relationship.    Sheldon has accepted his part by acknowledging and showing her how important she is to him.   Amy needs to accept hers, and the reason why her intentions about remaining in the relationship are questionable.   She may have been in her right to do what she did, but by taking Sheldon back at status quo, the consequences are that she is going to be scrutinized by those who don't understand the reasoning behind her decision until she makes the matter known.

Edited by jenafan
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Well, if Amy decides to apologize to him (still think it already happened offscreen after Earworm), maybe Sheldon will insist on an 'Amy Farrah Fowler apologized to me'-T-Shirt. :biggrin:

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21 hours ago, Maddie said:

Can anyone else remember seeing them in the coffee shop and wondering what kind of journey these two would be on?

When I saw that scene, I just knew those two would be awesome together.

Yes, they've had their ups and down, and yes, their relationship is crazy, weird and nerdy, but it just works, and it's very sweet, and very romantic.

20 hours ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

Just FYI - It wasn't the font size it was the actual font!

Actually, I thought it was their user interface, which they changed from a "star based" rating system, to a "thumbs up" rating system. :icon_biggrin: 

20 hours ago, camelliayao said:

It's just I want Meemaw to like Amy, not for her to be yet another obstacle in the Shamy relationship.

Maybe Meemaw will respect Amy, for standing up for herself?

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1 hour ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Maybe because, Amy's a little broken too, and they kinda heal each other.

Yes!  Absolutely love this. It is so true.  I heard a priest once say the point of marriage was friction. We need to find someone to rub our hard edges off, to soften us. In essence what he was saying is everyone is a little broken and a couple's purpose is to heal and improve eachother.

Edited by AnnJ
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On 1/25/2016 at 3:57 PM, shamour said:

Great minds think alike;-) I also wrote something concerning this topic, perhaps you like it, too:-)

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11271511/1/The-Letter

And kelli also wrote something with a letter if I remember correectly, she did a couple of stories after 8x24...

https://www.fanfiction.net/u/5651719/kelli-k

thanks for mentioning me :)    :)   :)    

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7 hours ago, camelliayao said:

LMAO. Exactly how I feel. And to be honest I don't think they'll ever talk about Amy's feelings  because that's not their intention in the first place. 

Also I hate that the show uses Sheldon's "cool your jets" to somehow tell us audience to cool our jets. I mean??? We never said we want engagement right away. All we need is some old school Shamy and Shamy swaying in the background. It's the the writers who can't let go of all the dramas and bring up the old topic two episodes in a row.

I remember there's an interview where CL emphasizes that Sheldon is a scientist and science is his priority. Great, then let him do science stuff. Please. I haven't seen him at work for a very long time. 

9x12 The Sales Call Sublimation - one episode ago he was at work finding an asteroid with Raj 

?! 

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26 minutes ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

9x12 The Sales Call Sublimation - one episode ago he was at work finding an asteroid with Raj 

?! 

That wasn't his work, was it? And the finding asteroid part was over pretty quickly in that episode. That storyline was mainly about to name the asteroid Amy, which, although I like it, was still about relationship.

I was talking about more like the helium episode, or The Troll Manifestation.

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I don't know if this has been said yet, but I found it very interesting that the tables seem to have turned from 7.15 to 9.15, from Amy getting frustrated at her plans being interrupted to Sheldon now getting annoyed at getting FWF interrupted. From what we've read so far (and I know its just the taping report and that could play differently on screen) Amy didn't appear annoyed at her valentine's day night being spent giving advice to her friend. (And this is Amy, we're talking about! The girl who "deserves romance") Sure she rolled her eyes when sheldon said he had nothing else planned but from one TR it was included with a sideways smirk/smile, so she didn't seem that bothered. Rather than have the episode result in a fight, it ended with them clinking cups in celebration, (which sounds adorable!) Sheldon displayed understanding of the benefits of the break up (which I agree with even if others do not) and Amy seemed understanding that in that moment helping Raj was more important than solely focussing on having a night with her BF. I've been a observer here for a while and I can understand where some of the concerns are coming from, but for me personally, the TR displayed maturity for both of them. I'm happy with the way things are going! 

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8 minutes ago, Lionne said:

Thanks for being open-minded, Jena.

At this point, after all of this discussion, I wish I knew how to set up a poll. The question would be:

Should Amy apologize to Sheldon. Options:

1) Yes, Amy should apologize for the break up,

2) No, Amy should not apologize for the break up, she should only apologize or express regret for hurting him, and acknowledge that he suffered during their time apart,

3) No, Amy was within her rights to break up with him. She doesn't owe him an apology,

or

4) Not just no, but HELL NO, Sheldon could be an insulting ass and Amy should have conked him over the head with an iron skillet on her way out the door! Suffer, Sheldon, suffferrrrRRRrrrrRrrrRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

And 5) DOES NOT COMPUTE. NO CUCUMBER. TECHNIQUILLY ILLOGICAL, KIRK.

 

Where do you want it Lio?  And I'm a bit confused about 3,4 and 5

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8 minutes ago, Lionne said:

Anywhere you want, Tensor! Thank you! And just 1- 5 are the options to vote for?

OK, give me a couple of minutes and I now understand what you meant with the or and and.  I thought you wanted either 3 or 4.  Got it now.  I'll put the poll in Season 9 (it has to be a new thread), then link to it from here in the Shamy thread.  You may want to quote the post when another page is added, so it stays on the current page.

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