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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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On 5.2.2016 at 8:38 AM, 2L344 said:

I noticed Amy's response to Sheldon telling her he planned to give her the ring but couldn't when they broke up. Amy kind of frowns and turns away. I've seen the episode twice and still can't make out what Amy is thinking at that point with that expression. any ideas?

 We don't see Amy's face very well, but when Sheldon says he planned to give it to her (*giggle*), she looks away from Sheldon and if I saw right, she gulped. To me it seems like she's just letting it sink in, Sheldon had the engagement ring, he wanted to marry her! And when Sheldon says that he couldn't because they broke up, she turns to look into his eyes. Maybe this was the moment she realized just how serious Sheldon was with her before the break up, he had the ring already back then. I think the look on her face was kinda mix of surprised and shocked. Then Meemaw interrupts saying: Thank goodness for that! and Amy frowns and turns away looking annoyed (and for a reason imo). She was so taken off guard with the ring revelation that I think for a moment she had almost forgotten Meemaw was there and the whole ugly fight she had with her and just wanted Sheldon to continue talking. Even Sheldon was annoyed by Meemaw's snarky interruption. 

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2 hours ago, 2L344 said:

Watched the Meemaw episode twice, all in all for me it played out pretty much how I thought it would after having read the TR, no surprises here. The confrontation didn't last as long as I thought it would, in my head after reading that TR it lasted forever lol...glad for that. 

Those that believe Amy should've gone toe to toe with Meemaw got a good glimpse of that. My opinion hasn't changed from when I read and commented on the TR, I thought Amy still came off as the defensive gf who didn't "listen" to what Meemaw was trying to tell her between the lines. Yeah, Meemaw ambushed Amy with her blunt delivery of why she was there. I was never surprised when I heard Meemaw was going to be on the show that this potentially didn't bode well for Amy, I was already thinking "uh oh" for her before the TR came out. Anyway, whether you like Amy taking on Meemaw it happened and it is what it is, no one right or wrong with that opinion...

I like the stairwell convo at the beginning when Sheldon excitedly tells Lenny about the upcoming visit. And when he tells them Meemaw is the sweetest and kindest person unless you're a gopher digging in her veggie garden, and that in that case you could expect to get your head bashed in with a shovel, well that kind of let's everyone know what's about to happen. Meemaw struck me as your typical sweet and loving southern grandma until you screwed with something she loved. Meemaw is paying a visit to determine if Amy is that gopher in the veggie garden...

I can forgive her treatment of Sheldon as a kid, let's face it he acts like one and I don't consider Meemaw as the enabler because I think it's Sheldon's personality and not something created by Meemaw or Mary. IMO it's not uncommon for grandmas to treat adult grandkids as if they are still the kids they knew when they were in fact kids. If you put yourself in Meemaw's ortho shoes in this episode, whether you like what she's doing or not, Amy unfortunately makes it very easy for Meemaw to continue to think of her as the cold woman who broke Sheldon's heart and could likely do it again.

Meemaw picks up on the fact that Lenny knows what Moonpie means but Amy doesn't, sees Amy lie about having "heard" about it, and sees Amy shoot Sheldon down and cut him off when he confirms she is lying. Amy's statement about her being Sheldon's "best shot" though accurate, still comes off as shrill to me and again, is confirming in Meemaw's mind just why she is there to begin with--she doesn't trust Amy or her motivations. Telling Sheldon in front of Meemaw and using her famed sarcasm that his "precious" Meemaw has been mean to her and that she didn't "need this" wasn't helpful for her either. And the last icky part for me is angry Amy telling Meemaw, in front of Sheldon "who said I even want to be engaged to him" wasn't very classy and a crummy thing to do in front of Sheldon.

I don't give Meemaw a pass for her choice of venue for this confrontation, bad move. I think it's one thing to call Amy out, in the spirit of being overly protective of Sheldon, for what happened in the break up. But to do it in front of the others is crappy and bad form. I didn't care for her sending Sheldon out like she would a five year old, but it does serve to illustrate where Meemaw is with Sheldon and that Amy is correct in her opinion of Meemaw's protectiveness of Sheldon. Is Meemaw being two faced about the whole Penny can work but Amy shouldn't thing? Eh, I saw it more like Meemaw knowing Sheldon and the similarities with her own "pop pop" and making her point to Amy that she needs to be there for him. The break up, and Amy speaking to her about having her own career, might have come off to Meemaw that Amy is more about herself than about being a gf. Doesn't mean Meemaw is right about that, it just might play out that way given Meemaw's limited understanding of things.

Again, no surprises here for me, I think this episode played out pretty much like the TR sounded. This is just my opinion of what I saw, I know it's not the popular one and I'm totally fine with the other side of the fence maintaining Meemaw is a meddlesome old fart that was out of line and forced Amy to stand her ground. I don't argue that Amy has a right to defend herself against the Cooper matriarch, I only question if it was the smart or best move. Try not to tear me a new one if you are of the latter opinion please!

I noticed Amy's response to Sheldon telling her he planned to give her the ring but couldn't when they broke up. Amy kind of frowns and turns away. I've seen the episode twice and still can't make out what Amy is thinking at that point with that expression. any ideas?

I think the episode ends on a somewhat positive note-- Meemaw shares with Amy that pop pop was a pain in the ass like Sheldon, which gets Amy's attention. Meemaw let's Amy know Sheldon was deeply hurt (can't decide if Amy's silence on that was showing she knew, or this was the first time she is coming to realize it from an outside source). We get Sheldon defending Amy and she is pleased by that. We get Amy acknowledging they both had things to work on.

Sheldon tells Meemaw that she stood by pop pop and made him a better man, to which Meemaw replies "I did"-- again for me, this is Meemaw differentiating between what she did (stood by pop pop despite him being a pain in the ass) and what Amy did in her eyes (cut and run for six months). Maybe Amy understanding that Meemaw had her own challenging spouse and could maybe relate to Amy given the right circumstances, and also knowing Sheldon was deeply hurt and that Meemaw was only protecting him from further injury, would help Amy process things later down the road after Meemaw leaves. Who knows...the "Amy blame game" still has another chapter in the next episode if the TR for 9.15 is accurate. I didn't get the sense one way or the other on whether Meemaw respects Amy standing her ground or not. I think she merely said her peace, got to see how Amy reacted to her ambush, and basically concedes the issues because Sheldon wanted it. I saw almost no reaction to Sheldon's V-card revelation lol, which kinda surprised me....

Not sure where I stand overall with this episode for the Shamy stuff. Did we need to see all of this? I could go both ways. I think knowing that things continue to improve for this couple in the next few episodes has me downplaying any drama this episode brought. I don't see Meemaw as being a b*tch but she is not without her faults. I think Amy was too abrasive and some of the things she said was out of line, but yes she did get blindsided and it happened in front of an audience (Lenny). I guess I kind of feel "eh" overall, which is too bad--it would've been nice to have seen Meemaw in a happier light. I hope we get to see that later down the road somehow, whether it's a wedding or a holiday episode....

 

 

Thank you for expressing in such better words how I felt about this episode.  I know people were saying "watch the episode first" before judging from TR. However, in this case, seeing the episode has only solidified my disgruntlement of the absence of Amy's sentiments toward Sheldon in why she wanted to go back to "putting up with him" if he is so damn difficult.   What I took from her words is that she feels no one else will, and she sees herself as his savior.   While we all know this is true, I just don't like the arrogance behind it.  I want to hear the reasons she loves Sheldon inspite of these things, and the writers keep wasting these opportunities.  I hated that Sheldon interrupted just as Amy and Meemaw were bonding.   I would have liked to have seen more of Amy's facial expression over Meemaw's concern about Sheldon getting hurt again.   Did it pain her to hear it?

What about the ring?   It was clear toward the end, inspite of her earlier remark that Amy does want to be engaged.  However,  why does it matter to Amy if Penny knew about it? Was Amy implying the break up never would have happened or lasted as long if she knew Sheldon's intentions to commit at some point?  If that is the case,  then it seems we have our answer.   Amy wanted assurance of a committed future with Sheldon to justify her hard work in putting up with him, not necessarily a change in behavior.

I love that clueless Sheldon called her out on another lie in front of his meemaw, not understanding that she was trying to save face.  He never told her about his nickname,  and if she did hear about it,  she never asked him.   "Now I know"  Sheldon zips it.  LOL!  

I appreciate that Sheldon sees value in the break up, and I sincerely believe now that he bares no ill will toward Amy over it.  By his words and actions, he is showing he meant it when he said he believes she wants him to be happy before his earworm epiphany. However, I hate that he continues to remain child-like in his behavior despite having shown personal growth in earlier S9 episodes.  I attribute this solely to his meemaw being present, and if this is the only side she ever sees of her grandson, then I can understand why she continues to feed into it and believes Amy should give up her career to tend to him. 

I just didn't feel the warmth between Sheldon and Amy in this episode.  It seemed more like the Shamy we all know so well with childish Sheldon making jabs at Amy's expense, Amy getting frustrated and attempting to run away before being interjected by Sheldon and having to defend her position, and Sheldon getting the last word on the matter before the episode comes to a close.  

This episode instilled in me that shards of Shamy 1.0 still exist.  The difference is they are touching each other now, and Sheldon tries to do the right thing when he is given a clue.   There is improvement,  but they still need work.

In the end,  they will be fine,  and I think meemaw's reluctant blessing was genuine.   Meemaw and Amy might be at odds because of the break up and differences on how to treat Sheldon, but they find common ground through their love and wanting what is best for him.

Edited by jenafan
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A little late to the party and a lot of things have already been stated very eloquently by you guys but I'll throw in my two cents anyway:

- First of all, it played out a lot like I imagined it to be with a few positive surprises thanks to the acting. So if you've read my opinions over the past weeks then this will be more of the same, I guess. lol

- Sheldon's description of Meemaw turns out to be pretty accurate: She's the sweetest woman unless you're getting in her way in which case she'll bash you over the head - with a shovel if you're a gopher and with words if you dared to hurt her Moonpie! It's very fitting for her to be so protective of her grandson and sceptical towards Amy. But man, she went out of her way to be pretty unkind in the process. She had no interest in really getting to know Amy and understand why Sheldon loves her. She just went straight into attack mode and nothing Amy did was good enough. Poor Amy!

- Speaking of which: GO AMY, I LOVE YOU, GIRL!!! <3 I won't move an inch away from defending Amy in this - she had every right! She tried to be super friendly and I really got the feeling she wanted Meemaw to like her - but Meemaw's attack shook her to the core. Props to Mayim's acting - you could tell how that first blow of rejection hit her hard. She was expecting a nice afternoon and then suddenly THIS!? It the worst nightmare for any girlfriend meeting the boyfriend's family.

- We've been going on a lot about how Amy didn't know about "moonpie" but seeing everything in context I liked the bit that Meemaw still doesn't get the Spiderman reference - even after decades! You'd think she would have at least a basic understanding that it's a thing from one of his comic books. I think the writers were going after a bit of balance here. Just like Amy doesn't know every single fact about Sheldon's life, Meemaw doesn't know or understand everything about Sheldon either. (Which brings up the question: Can you know everything about another person? And is it really that a big deal if you don't?)

- Following from that: I LOVE that Amy insisted not just once but twice that Sheldon is not a child anymore and should be treated as an adult. And he even thanked her for that!! <3 Yes, Sheldon is pretty childish at times and possibly even more so when his Meemaw is around to shower him with affection and presents. But I do think he's really making an effort to grow up (for lack of a better description) in recent years and he's appreciating Amy's support. These two!

- Which brings me to Sheldon: Man, those rose tinted glasses must have quite a few cracks in them now, if they're not completely shattered. His enthusiasm when she arrived is just adorable ("You've gotten even smaller! I love it!" LMAO) and he's so happy to have her and Amy meet - his two favourite ladies! And you can just see how his heart sinks when everything is suddenly getting tense. This is so unexpected he doesn't know what to do. Like, what is happening here?!?

- Special shout out to Jim's acting when the ring was brought up. I don't remember reading about that reaction in the TR but I remember imagining that Sheldon wouldn't be happy about it. And boy, did it exceed my hopes and expectations. He looks so upset in that - almost like in the Spock episode and for a moment it's like he's trying pull himself together and not say something unkind or raise his voice. Poor Sheldon, what a nightmare for him!

- So with that in mind I'm not blaming him for being a bit cowardly and needing a bit of a kick in the butt to step up. Of course he'll defend Amy but he's probably scared that he'd end up like that gopher! lol You can tell he's so afraid and nervous. Aww. And as I said a while ago, when he's calling Amy his work in progress it kinda feels like that bait and switch from his "I like you, quirks and all" speech. I do think there's still a streak in him that has a hard time admitting his shortcomings to Amy (and maybe even his Meemaw) even though he's very much aware of them and working on himself with Amy's help. As annoying as it may be his growth is all baby steps with him occasionally stumbling every now and then. But he's still going forward.

- Meemaw giving them their blessing also felt a lot softer than I feared it would be. So all's well that ends well! Amy giddily rubbing his shoulder and him blurting out the virginity line was hilarious.

- If I would have one complaint then that I would have loved to have an extended scene for Amy and Meemaw talking alone. It's a missed opportunity to have Amy answer to Meemaw pointing out how deeply she hurt Sheldon with the breakup. Give her a chance to explain herself. That would have been the moment when she could talk about how much she loves Sheldon - not while they were still fighting! Maybe another time then... oh well.

That's all I can think of for now. Bring on the next episode! :D

 

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36 minutes ago, April said:

- If I would have one complaint then that I would have loved to have an extended scene for Amy and Meemaw talking alone. It's a missed opportunity to have Amy answer to Meemaw pointing out how deeply she hurt Sheldon with the breakup. Give her a chance to explain herself. That would have been the moment when she could talk about how much she loves Sheldon - not while they were still fighting! Maybe another time then... oh well.

That. I felt like they were finally ready to bury the hatched so to speak and that could've led to a good conversation when they both had calmed down a bit. Meemaw expressed her concerns about Amy leaving and hurting Sheldon again, this would've been a perfect opportunity for Amy to explain that she loves Sheldon and why Meemaw's concerns are unnecessary. But I get that there was a limited time frame. 

Edited by bluebird
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After MeeMaw said she was afraid that Amy would break Moonpie's heart again, you could see that Amy was about to speak---in my mind to affirm her commitment and love for Sheldon.  I wish that hadn't been interrupted and the writers had let that play out.

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56 minutes ago, April said:

A little late to the party and a lot of things have already been stated very eloquently by you guys but I'll throw in my two cents anyway:

- First of all, it played out a lot like I imagined it to be with a few positive surprises thanks to the acting. So if you've read my opinions over the past weeks then this will be more of the same, I guess. lol

- Sheldon's description of Meemaw turns out to be pretty accurate: She's the sweetest woman unless you're getting in her way in which case she'll bash you over the head - with a shovel if you're a gopher and with words if you dared to hurt her Moonpie! It's very fitting for her to be so protective of her grandson and sceptical towards Amy. But man, she went out of her way to be pretty unkind in the process. She had no interest in really getting to know Amy and understand why Sheldon loves her. She just went straight into attack mode and nothing Amy did was good enough. Poor Amy!

- Speaking of which: GO AMY, I LOVE YOU, GIRL!!! <3 I won't move an inch away from defending Amy in this - she had every right! She tried to be super friendly and I really got the feeling she wanted Meemaw to like her - but Meemaw's attack shook her to the core. Props to Mayim's acting - you could tell how that first blow of rejection hit her hard. She was expecting a nice afternoon and then suddenly THIS!? It the worst nightmare for any girlfriend meeting the boyfriend's family.

- We've been going on a lot about how Amy didn't know about "moonpie" but seeing everything in context I liked the bit that Meemaw still doesn't get the Spiderman reference - even after decades! You'd think she would have at least a basic understanding that it's a thing from one of his comic books. I think the writers were going after a bit of balance here. Just like Amy doesn't know every single fact about Sheldon's life, Meemaw doesn't know or understand everything about Sheldon either. (Which brings up the question: Can you know everything about another person? And is it really that a big deal if you don't?)

- Following from that: I LOVE that Amy insisted not just once but twice that Sheldon is not a child anymore and should be treated as an adult. And he even thanked her for that!! <3 Yes, Sheldon is pretty childish at times and possibly even more so when his Meemaw is around to shower him with affection and presents. But I do think he's really making an effort to grow up (for lack of a better description) in recent years and he's appreciating Amy's support. These two!

- Which brings me to Sheldon: Man, those rose tinted glasses must have quite a few cracks in them now, if they're not completely shattered. His enthusiasm when she arrived is just adorable ("You've gotten even smaller! I love it!" LMAO) and he's so happy to have her and Amy meet - his two favourite ladies! And you can just see how his heart sinks when everything is suddenly getting tense. This is so unexpected he doesn't know what to do. Like, what is happening here?!?

- Special shout out to Jim's acting when the ring was brought up. I don't remember reading about that reaction in the TR but I remember imagining that Sheldon wouldn't be happy about it. And boy, did it exceed my hopes and expectations. He looks so upset in that - almost like in the Spock episode and for a moment it's like he's trying pull himself together and not say something unkind or raise his voice. Poor Sheldon, what a nightmare for him!

- So with that in mind I'm not blaming him for being a bit cowardly and needing a bit of a kick in the butt to step up. Of course he'll defend Amy but he's probably scared that he'd end up like that gopher! lol You can tell he's so afraid and nervous. Aww. And as I said a while ago, when he's calling Amy his work in progress it kinda feels like that bait and switch from his "I like you, quirks and all" speech. I do think there's still a streak in him that has a hard time admitting his shortcomings to Amy (and maybe even his Meemaw) even though he's very much aware of them and working on himself with Amy's help. As annoying as it may be his growth is all baby steps with him occasionally stumbling every now and then. But he's still going forward.

- Meemaw giving them their blessing also felt a lot softer than I feared it would be. So all's well that ends well! Amy giddily rubbing his shoulder and him blurting out the virginity line was hilarious.

- If I would have one complaint then that I would have loved to have an extended scene for Amy and Meemaw talking alone. It's a missed opportunity to have Amy answer to Meemaw pointing out how deeply she hurt Sheldon with the breakup. Give her a chance to explain herself. That would have been the moment when she could talk about how much she loves Sheldon - not while they were still fighting! Maybe another time then... oh well.

That's all I can think of for now. Bring on the next episode! :D

 

Yes , again totally agree , 100% my thoughts :) 

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It seem Steve Molaro was wrong, when at Palyfest 2013, he stated that Meemaw would love Amy.

Dude again, first he says she might not like Amy, then Mayim looks sad and smiles and Molaro comes back with "she'll love Amy"....it was a joke. Molaro was correct

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Okay so here's my two cents about the episode. Overall I really liked it. I think the tr read pretty accurately. Now as far as the lines that so many were concerned about the one that stuck out for me the most was the one where amy said who said I want to be engaged to him? It may have been in the moment of anger but we all know that is the main reason she broke up with him, commitment. I then watched it a second time and realized this was the moment meemaw told Sheldon to leave. This was when she wanted to tell Amy the real reason she didn't like her. She broke her moonpie's heart and Amy needed to hear that.

I think the writers missed one thing though. Amy telling meemaw she understood that. I think that was needed but right after meemaw told Amy she didn't like that she broke up with him was when Sheldon broke in to defend Amy. As much as I don't believe an apology is necessary to Sheldon, I do feel if Amy had said to Meemaw that she understood why she was upset then the end would have felt better to me(not that I didn't love Sheldon telling amy to cool her jets)

I think that everything is fine with Meemaw because of Sheldon but I really would have like Amy defending herself about the break up a little bit more. Even though, again, she was justified in it. Her telling meemaw that she was concerned about him being truly committed would have been nice. It's a comedy though so honestly as much as that would have been nice this probably shouldn't or won't ever happen.

So yes Amy now knows that Sheldon is committed to her and is going to propose sooner or later. And we are going to see happy Shamy in the next few episodes so that is all that matters now.

I liked the other storyline it had funny moments. But not getting too much into it.

I may have missed some things but this was my biggest issue.

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2 hours ago, jenafan said:

Thank you for expressing in such better words how I felt about this episode.  I know people were saying "watch the episode first" before judging from TR. However, in this case, seeing the episode has only solidified my disgruntlement of the absence of Amy's sentiments toward Sheldon in why she wanted to go back to "putting up with him" if he is so damn difficult.   What I took from her words is that she feels no one else will, and she sees herself as his savior.   While we all know this is true, I just don't like the arrogance behind it.  I want to hear the reasons she loves Sheldon inspite of these things, and the writers keep wasting these opportunities.  I hated that Sheldon interrupted just as Amy and Meemaw were bonding.   I would have liked to have seen more of Amy's facial expression over Meemaw's concern about Sheldon getting hurt again.   Did it pain her to hear it?

What about the ring?   It was clear toward the end, inspite of her earlier remark that Amy does want to be engaged.  However,  why does it matter to Amy if Penny knew about it? Was Amy implying the break up never would have happened or lasted as long if she knew Sheldon's intentions to commit at some point?  If that is the case,  then it seems we have our answer.   Amy wanted assurance of a committed future with Sheldon to justify her hard work in putting up with him, not necessarily a change in behavior.

I love that clueless Sheldon called her out on another lie in front of his meemaw, not understanding that she was trying to save face.  He never told her about his nickname,  and if she did hear about it,  she never asked him.   "Now I know"  Sheldon zips it.  LOL!  

I appreciate that Sheldon sees value in the break up, and I sincerely believe now that he bares no ill will toward Amy over it.  By his words and actions, he is showing he meant it when he said he believes she wants him to be happy before his earworm epiphany. However, I hate that he continues to remain child-like in his behavior despite having shown personal growth in earlier S9 episodes.  I attribute this solely to his meemaw being present, and if this is the only side she ever sees of her grandson, then I can understand why she continues to feed into it and believes Amy should give up her career to tend to him. 

I just didn't feel the warmth between Sheldon and Amy in this episode.  It seemed more like the Shamy we all know so well with childish Sheldon making jabs at Amy's expense, Amy getting frustrated and attempting to run away before being interjected by Sheldon and having to defend her position, and Sheldon getting the last word on the matter before the episode comes to a close.  

This episode instilled in me that shards of Shamy 1.0 still exist.  The difference is they are touching each other now, and Sheldon tries to do the right thing when he is given a clue.   There is improvement,  but they still need work.

In the end,  they will be fine,  and I think meemaw's reluctant blessing was genuine.   Meemaw and Amy might be at odds because of the break up and differences on how to treat Sheldon, but they find common ground through their love and wanting what is best for him.

I agree more or less with you post even if I don't share your doubts about Amy, as I imagine you know, LOL! But I agree that it was unfortunate we could not even properly see her facial expression while meemaw spoke about the break up and how it has affected Sheldon, that would have been a nice opportunity to clear things up. 

Regarding the ring, I don't think it really matters to Amy if Penny already knew about it, since in the following episodes (even in the last one, where they have a girls night) she doesn't even mention it any more, for me it was just the pinch for Penny's joke about living the room; anyway, I think like you that it is important that she knows about it, since it shows commitment in Sheldon, and that was an important part in her doubts about the relationship, albeit for me also his behavior was had a big share in it.

Sheldon being more childish than he usually is was at times  annoying, but it depended for me, as you said, from the fact that meemaw kind of supported that behavior; Amy of course was more and more frustrated by it, since she was also struggling with Constance and maybe lost her patience. TBH, I don't mind to see from time to time some glimpse of Shamy 1.0, the break up has helped them to improve, but I don't believe in miracles, LOL! They are the same people than before the break up, so it's normal that sometimes they act in the "old" way and that there's still a lot of work to do. They are both "work in progress", but all relationships are, I guess. I don't want to see "perfect" Shamy (even assuming a "perfect" relationship does exist), it would be kind of boring to me. At the end, I think everything was fine between the three of them, I would have liked some more focus on the "made up" after the fight, maybe without Sheldon, but that's ok....

4 hours ago, CentralPerk said:

I'm not sure about that. That is not very clear for me. :/ 

what made you think that ?

Because he said something (English is not my first language, so correct me if I'm wrong...) along the lines "My mother gave it to me and I was thinking about giving it to you but then we broke up"...I interpreted that as he was still thinking about a possible proposal when the break up occurred, JMO!

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Hmmm. Well, I knew I would have reservations about this one when I read the TR. I liked it slightly less than I thought I would, but I never thought that would be very much. I will stick to the AV Club's 'underwhelming' as an assessment, though if I had gone in cold I would probably have been stronger in my disapproval.

I am going to chalk this down to writing, editing and the crying need for a longer runtime. There was so little time to introduce Meemaw, her sweetness to everyone else but Amy, her showdown with Amy and their sort-of detente, and Sheldon's defence of her, without throwing the revelation about the ring into the mix. And then there is poor old Raj and his beautifully-drawn relationship with Emily and its tragic dissolution. All in the princely running time of-what?-twenty minutes?

Ouf. And it showed. Mayim Bialik and June Squibb are forces of bloody nature, and they couldn't make their material sing. And once again, the show really seems to use up all its powder with Sheldon. Sheldon's excitement around Meemaw and even his regression to little boy around her were deftly sketched and of course wonderfully performed, as we would expect. Do I think they were a leetle broader than necessary, so as to drive home the importance of him standing up to Meemaw for his woman at the end of the episode? Maybe. But mostly Sheldon's avoidance of conflict and his infantilism around his Meemaw were really nicely done.

It was Amy and Meemaw whom I thought got short shrift. There is the skeleton of an interesting idea about Meemaw's protectiveness (and blind spot?) towards her moon pie, and a potentially interesting way to talk about the breakup, but I think there were real problems with the execution. And, more to the point, the show's dodgy gender politics reared their ugly heads again.

I liked that Amy criticised Meemaw for infantilising Sheldon. I was a little uncomfortable about the overall vibe of Amy and Meemaw basically arguing over poor, trembling, MoonPie's head over who got to look after him.and who understood his needs best.

'I'm his best shot. You don't know what I put up with!' Oy. Amy, pet, we DO know what you put up with. But what might better reassure the old Gorgon is to give some indicator of WHY you put up with it. Yes, yes, yes, she was put on the spot and she was defending herself and pointing out that Sheldon is a difficult man. Oh, I'll get to that in a minute. But maybe, just maybe, show, moments like this might make us wonder why Meemaw abruptly lurched into a diatribe about Pop-Pop rather than, say, tossing off that whiskey and cutting Amy's face open for disrespecting the darling grandson of whom she was so protective and blinkered mere moments before?

'I understand what it's like to live with a difficult man.' Oh yes, we women and the irritating, infantile creatures it is our duty to love and serve, because of.......why again? Why is it a woman again who is the eye-rolling caretaker and a man who must be cossetted but also disciplined? What are these women getting out of all this caretaking? Why are they so seldom allowed to make a case for the reasons that they stay, instead of making a virtue of sacrifice? What is this Curse Of Eve shit? Why is another kaffeklatsch- across generations, even- about enduring your relationship rather than enjoying it? I have a dim sense of why Amy came back, but why isn't Amy allowed to defend herself in positive rather than negative terms, show?

Oh right, there's no time, because-having established the startling fact that Amy puts up with a lot from Sheldon-here comes Sheldon to say something with a lot of truth, that is nonetheless played for laughs (I.e. That Amy too is a work in progress). Silly Sheldon. Women aren't there to stumble and fall in this episode. Women are only there to follow their menfolk, tut-tutting the while. Women are only ever castigated for not staying the course. Women aren't allowed to have joy in their relationships or to make mistakes and learn from them. It is for men to put women on a pedestal, fail them, disappoint them, occasionally get it right, and be rewarded by a smile from their fair ladies. It is for men to have trials and tests, to strive, to succeed and occasionally to fail. Women just follow with a bucket.

Why, you're a fool if you thought this story was about how Amy defends her relationship! Why, that would imply that Amy is the protagonist of her own story! Silly rabbit. It's SHELDON's story. Amy just lives in it. She is only there to tolerate Sheldon and to provide the pretext for Sheldon to slay one more dragon of his past. There, Amy, simper proudly and stroke Sheldon's sleeve. Look, you'll get some bling out of the exchange! Now roll your eyes some more at Sheldon's behaviour like a good tired stereotype. Gooood exhausted gender convention. Well done.

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It's interesting how the meemaw in our imaginations and Sheldon's descriptions were way better than the actual meemaw. Even the descriptions from sharing his letter up the stairs had me imagining meemaw.

Also, they were inconsistent with the ring history.  

He sat her tea on a comic book!!!!

Sheldon sitting on the other side of the couch is making me twitch.

And then the Lenny interrupted right when it was getting good.

And Amy said can I have a tissue rather than may I have a tissue

And she totally would have know about moonpie nickname!!!

Edited by notchinc
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8 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Regarding the ring, I don't think it really matters to Amy if Penny already knew about it, since in the following episodes (even in the last one, where they have a girls night) she doesn't even mention it any more, for me it was just the pinch for Penny's joke about living the room; anyway, I think like you that it is important that she knows about it, since it shows commitment in Sheldon, and that was an important part in her doubts about the relationship, albeit for me also his behavior was had a big share in it.

I personally took the scene as emblematic for how little Amy knew what was going on with Sheldon during the breakup and that Penny didn't gossip about him as much as we would have expected it. I mean, we've been wondering all that time what Amy knows and every time she finds out anything regarding to that it's a shock/surprise for her. And now she finds out that her bestie Penny knew so much more and still sent her off to date other people.

I always thought commitment or rather Sheldon's apparent lack of it was a big problem for Amy in 8x24 - she even calls him out like "THAT'S the commitment issue you're wrestling with!?" but he didn't get the hint, hence her frustration. For me the big tragedy in their dynamic has always been how Sheldon is still so guarded about his feelings and Amy just doesn't know the true depths of his love for her. I'm hoping against all hope that the show will finally get over itself and allow a really emotionally honest moment between the two. I mean, I'm not expecting to see them crying in each others arms while pouring out their hearts to each other like in certain fanfics, but if you can have Sheldon open up to others you can have him open up to Amy in an even more profound way.

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51 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

[Ramblings] 

Gooood exhausted gender convention. Well done.

What's kind of striking about these kind of things - and that's where I'm totally with you in your frustration - is that situations like this could have been easily turned around by a few additional lines.

Like the scene with Amy and Meemaw starting to bond. I'm okay with the two ladies venting their frustration about having to put up with difficult partners - we all know it's true so no need to pretend otherwise. But instead of doing only that you could have easily have Meemaw say that for better or worse she loved Pop-pop very much and seeing how deeply Amy hurt Sheldon with the breakup she fears this will happen again. And that is when they should have had Amy proclaim her love for Sheldon and start listing all the positive sides she likes about him, and maybe even point out how she understands that Spiderman reference that Meemaw has no clue about even after decades. And then you can have the others interrupt and have Sheldon have his moment.

It would balance the whole thing a lot more and it wouldn't even be that much in terms of time. It's literally a few seconds between what we got and ~WE COULD HAVE HAD IT AAAAAALL~ mp3

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2 minutes ago, April said:

What's kind of striking about these kind of things - and that's where I'm totally with you in your frustration - is that situations like this could have been easily turned around by a few additional lines.

Like the scene with Amy and Meemaw starting to bond. I'm okay with the two ladies venting their frustration about having to put up with difficult partners - we all know it's true so no need to pretend otherwise. But instead of doing only that you could have easily have Meemaw say that for better or worse she loved Pop-pop very much and seeing how deeply Amy hurt Sheldon with the breakup she fears this will happen again. And that is when they should have had Amy proclaim her love for Sheldon and start listing all the positive sides she likes about him, and maybe even point out how she understands that Spiderman reference that Meemaw has no clue about even after decades. And then you can have the others interrupt and have Sheldon have his moment.

It would balance the whole thing a lot more and it wouldn't even be that much in terms of time. It's literally a few seconds between what we got and ~WE COULD HAVE HAD IT AAAAAALL~ mp3

I know! It bugs me because: Girls.are allowed to actually enjoy their relationships, show, instead of just enduring them and commiserating with each other! Sigh.

I must confess I am relieved that in a couple of episodes Amy will be taken away from Sheldon and allowed to interact with the girls. Then she is allowed to be goofy and smirk about how awesome sex with Sheldon is and how much she likes participating in sex talk. Instead of being in this position the writers love so much where someone has to be rolling their eyes at Sheldon always (can't have Sheldon be the straight man even though he is delightful that way).

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2 hours ago, mirs1 said:

Because he said something (English is not my first language, so correct me if I'm wrong...) along the lines "My mother gave it to me and I was thinking about giving it to you but then we broke up"...I interpreted that as he was still thinking about a possible proposal when the break up occurred, JMO!

Yes, I watched it again and he said that. I understand what you mean now. But in the spok documentary I thought he said he would have liked propose to her before they broke up. But yes, you may be right, maybe he just thought about it but didn't know when, and then they broke up before he could find a date.

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1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

I know! It bugs me because: Girls.are allowed to actually enjoy their relationships, show, instead of just enduring them and commiserating with each other! Sigh.

I must confess I am relieved that in a couple of episodes Amy will be taken away from Sheldon and allowed to interact with the girls. Then she is allowed to be goofy and smirk about how awesome sex with Sheldon is and how much she likes participating in sex talk. Instead of being in this position the writers love so much where someone has to be rolling their eyes at Sheldon always (can't have Sheldon be the straight man even though he is delightful that way).

Yes to everything that has been said in this conversation and also, TBBT feels much more like some tired sitcom about manchild husbands and their harried wives when the show focuses on only romance like this (even if the acting elevates the script far above what it would be alone). Having watching it again, I can't believe how little of what Amy actually said that mattered (and wasn't meant to drive the conversation for other characters). 

And I'm not surprised Penny didn't tell Amy much of what was happening because no one really ever took their relationship seriously, but it feels weird to bring it up like that if they never touch on it again? Because I can't imagine that wasn't a big deal to their friendship (Amy just wanted to know that Sheldon was committed to having her in his life and not as a backdrop but as an actual person, and when Penny finds out this is the case, she doesn't try to move them to talk about it but instead pushes them apart?) I feel like Amy would care a lot more about that but know it's probably not going to happen, and I'm sort of glad about that because I cannot wait for the group/best friends dynamic coming up.

It's just such a weird choice to me to have character-defining dialogue used as a service for a one-liner and then cast aside instead of using some other line. It's like multiple people wrote it, all wanted something different, and then they just shoved the versions together and ran with it (so we got emotional dialogue used as a throwaway line for a short comedic moment, an unfinished conversation that would've added emotional depth to an already funny scene, and a familiar setup saved by non-verbal acting).

I'm worried the next episode may be much the same because of the subject, but the one after sounds delightful and focused on the cast as a whole.

 

ETA: I think, too, from the way the moment was acted, that Jim and Mayim know how big a deal Sheldon even just having a ring is (yes, Mary gave it to him, but he didn't flippantly huff it off and reject the notion and blah blah blah), and the moment where it was just them talking about it had so much potential that went nowhere. And that tone only made me think that Sheldon even thinking about the future was part of what Amy wanted to know only more and would've made a difference.

Which is why Penny's role in this plot is so confusing. It just must not be a plot/characterization to the writers, just lines. How are Penny and Amy going to go from here (Amy can't stay mad at Penny for long but still) to the episode after next?

I also feel like the writers did this Meemaw bait and switch very purposefully and had been planning on it for a long time, but the execution fell short of what they wanted to convey and made the switch part more of a let down. 

Edited by CuriousMeans
Because there's a 500% chance the writing choices confuse the crap out of me.
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My biggest issue with this episode were the large parts if it that were left to our imagination. It is clear to me that by the time we return to Memaw and Amy's heart to heart that they have been talking awhile. At least long enough for Sheldon to run to Leonard and have them convince him to defend Amy.

So it is perfectly possible that Amy started out waxing poetic about her love for Sheldon.  Only to be met with Memaws disaaproval still, causing her to lash out with the "I'm his best shot" line we take such umbridge with.

Also I had built up my Meemaw up in my mind so much. That this Meemaw was a pale comparison. But really that is my own damn fault.

In the whole I liked the episode but... It just did not met my lofty expectations... I feel like it was a set up for something later on. Again just my opinion that this season has been about getting from boy to man. And here we see the most childlike Sheldon yet. Stand up to his beloved Memaw in favor if his even more loved Amy.

i don't know how the Sheldon of yore would have reacted. Methinks perhaps that he would have sided with his Grandma first though. Maybe told Amy she was being unreasonable? 

Side note.. My unspoiled hubby loved the episode... Laughed in all the right places... Admonished me for not being satisfied unless a unicorn would fart rainbows on it... Mildly interested casual fans must be their target audience

 

 

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2 minutes ago, boys3allc said:

My biggest issue with this episode were the large parts if it that were left to our imagination. It is clear to me that by the time we return to Memaw and Amy's heart to heart that they have been talking awhile. At least long enough for Sheldon to run to Leonard and have them convince him to defend Amy.

So it is perfectly possible that Amy started out waxing poetic about her love for Sheldon.  Only to be met with Memaws disaaproval still, causing her to lash out with the "I'm his best shot" line we take such umbridge with.

Also I had built up my Meemaw up in my mind so much. That this Meemaw was a pale comparison. But really that is my own damn fault.

In the whole I liked the episode but... It just did not met my lofty expectations... I feel like it was a set up for something later on. Again just my opinion that this season has been about getting from boy to man. And here we see the most childlike Sheldon yet. Stand up to his beloved Memaw in favor if his even more loved Amy.

i don't know how the Sheldon of yore would have reacted. Methinks perhaps that he would have sided with his Grandma first though. Maybe told Amy she was being unreasonable? 

Side note.. My unspoiled hubby loved the episode... Laughed in all the right places... Admonished me for not being satisfied unless a unicorn would fart rainbows on it... Mildly interested casual fans must be their target audience

 

 

There were a lot of holes during and after that episode that needed a little more filling in with the actual show. 

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Sorry for coming late to the conversation, but I just watched the Meemaw episode.

It had its moments (The Raj and Claire story was funny) where I laughed, but this time I must say that I was annoyed.

First by Meemaw. I didn´t like that she called out Sheldon in front of Amy and that he just accepted it. I know that he´s still in this process in turning into a total man, but it should have been Sheldon who says "Hold on Meemaw, you might not have noticed it yet, but I´m a man now, so please treat me as an adult and not as the little boy I used to be!". So when Amy said "Don´t speak to him like that, he´s an adult now!" I was just clapping in my hands, saying "Well done Amy! That´s right, go ahead!"

But then he spoke with his Meemaw and I felt a little bit better, but I see a lot of work still.

At least Sheldon´s not running away from his problems anymore, but he still feels uncomfortable in confronting situations and doesn´t know how to handle them. I think it was at the end of season 8 when someone had mentioned that Molaro said, that Shamy would have some issues, which would lead to fights or something around those lines, I don´t know.

So I would like to have Sheldon more conversations with Amy about his childish behaviour and that he has to work on that, because I don´t want Shamy to have a child/mother relationship like Howardette has sometimes. I want them to have a face-to-face conversation between two adults/partners. I don´t want them to shout, but I would like them to talk about their relationship like they did in the Mars episode.

I know that Meemaw just wanted to protect her grandson because he´s been hurt, but treating him like a little boy didn´t help him much. I was near to facepalm her twice, because:

1. She said: "Why don´t you let us adults speak?" to Sheldon

2. The way she was rolling her eyes, when Amy asked her if she would be okay if Sheldon gave her the engagement ring (just being honest and saying "Not really, but as long as Sheldon´s happy, I can live with it" would have been fine, she doesn´t have to be dramatic).

I´m sorry for the bad vibes here from my part!

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17 minutes ago, boys3allc said:

My biggest issue with this episode were the large parts if it that were left to our imagination. It is clear to me that by the time we return to Memaw and Amy's heart to heart that they have been talking awhile. At least long enough for Sheldon to run to Leonard and have them convince him to defend Amy.

So it is perfectly possible that Amy started out waxing poetic about her love for Sheldon.  Only to be met with Memaws disaaproval still, causing her to lash out with the "I'm his best shot" line we take such umbridge with.

Also I had built up my Meemaw up in my mind so much. That this Meemaw was a pale comparison. But really that is my own damn fault.

In the whole I liked the episode but... It just did not met my lofty expectations... I feel like it was a set up for something later on. Again just my opinion that this season has been about getting from boy to man. And here we see the most childlike Sheldon yet. Stand up to his beloved Memaw in favor if his even more loved Amy.

i don't know how the Sheldon of yore would have reacted. Methinks perhaps that he would have sided with his Grandma first though. Maybe told Amy she was being unreasonable? 

Side note.. My unspoiled hubby loved the episode... Laughed in all the right places... Admonished me for not being satisfied unless a unicorn would fart rainbows on it... Mildly interested casual fans must be their target audience

 

There were holes.....I hadn't really thought about that but all in all I do think that this was a good episode.

Too bad there aren't any unicorn farting rainbows though.  OMG.....that is just too funny!

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Very late to the party, blame the time shift.
Ooookay, don't want to repeat everything, most issues have already been mentioned, so here are a few additional thoughts:

To sum it up: I liked Meemaw even less than I thought I would.

First: She acts all friendly and sweet as long as Sheldon is around and as soon as he leaves the room: BAMM! Not nice, and not respectful as far as Sheldon is concerned. He is capable of dealing with this and honesty is always good - even if you are talking to a child - no matter if the child is 5 or 35 years old. :shy:

Second: She doesn't know Amy at all, hasn't even talked to her properly, but just assumes she is to blame, even if she apparently knows that Sheldon can be difficult. Not the smartest move to make when you want to make sure that your precious grandson will continued to be pampered in the future. Serious question: Who will do it if not Amy?

Third: The ring. I was more upset about it than I thought I would be. She had absolutely NO RIGHT to say this in front of Amy. Yes, even Sheldon looks sad here.

Fourth: She wants her Moonpie to be happy and not hurt again? Mhmm - sorry to say this, Meemaw, but the one who caused him hurt this time was YOU! Telling Amy about the ring, telling Sheldon not to marry the one he loves (without having even talked to the girl), sorry, that backfired.

Fifth: Pop-Pop... Mhmm, after getting to know Meemaw I found myself thinking: What would he have said about what it was like living with HER! He probably would have said that she was the difficult one. And after getting to know her I might agree! :icon_cheesygrin:

Sixth: She accuses Amy of hurting Sheldon. Suprise: He hurt her, too! Meemaw, maybe if you had talked to her, had asked what had caused the break-up, explained (gently) that you are afraid it might happen again - that would have worked. And I think that's what Mary might have done. But attacking her outright? No go!

Seventh: Her 'blessing'. Not sure what to think of it. Actually I took it as a 'nice-to-have' not a 'must-have'. Realized that it wouldn't have bothered me if she had said 'no'. Would have liked it actually, because Sheldon would ask Amy anyway! I don't doubt that at all. Again: You're his past, Meemaw, Amy is his future! :wub:

Eigth: A short advice: Never watch such an episode when you are already pretty pissed off because of what happened at work! It might result in a post like this! :rofl:

Still: Stand by what I've said. :wink:

 

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8 hours ago, nibbler747 said:

Not a fan of this "child" Sheldon we've got going of recent years.  I miss when he acted more clever and adult.  Glad that he ultimately defended Amy.

What I like is that we saw the two aspects of Sheldon. Child, when he is around his meemaw, instinctively, I think, and because she traits him like a child.

Then, when the ring is mentioned, I find we can see the change in Sheldon attitude. He speaks calmly, in adult way, when explaining to Amy. Even if it is because of the subject, the interaction is very completely different. And when he defends Amy.

Brilliant Jim !

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