Ship Zone [Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9

[Shamyyes]

I really have to time the next episode someone said earlier there's more commercials than show. When you think about it it really feels that way lately.

[910]

2 minutes ago, Shamyyes said:

I really have to time the next episode someone said earlier there's more commercials than show. When you think about it it really feels that way lately.

The video links on the CBS website demonstrate many episodes are under 20 minutes to include the credits.  Another reason I don't want to see the series continue past Season 10.  Could you imagine increased salaries and a 15 minute episode or less?

[joyceraye]

25 minutes ago, April said:

I really think that is the crux of the issue - he has had problems admitting his shortcomings in the past. He didn't want Amy to think of him as a failure and I think it's probably even worse with Meemaw so I'm not really surprised. I mean, can you imagine him basically admitting "You know, Meemaw, I'm a mess and I need Amy to get my shit together!"?? lol

His 'That's what I've been doing for the past five years' was outrageous. I don't know why Amy didn't clobber him there and then. Perhaps her flabber was too gasted ?  If anybody worked on Amy it was Penny and Bernadette, not to mention Amy herself. Sheldon has been ambivalent about her growth : resisting it and benefiting from it both at the same time. How he dare claim so much credit for it is beyond me. Amy's admission in response to this statement I thought was generous in the extreme. It might be because she's registering the changes in him that's she's seen over the last few weeks  while acknowledging that his current childlikeness is probably no more than the temporarily infantilising presence of his meemaw  plus the stress of the confrontations -  which he's coping with not too badly at all, considering.

   He is intelligent enough to have noticed that compared to other women, Amy is still different. Before he started acknowledging he was an 'odd fellow' who didn't grasp things, he once  pointed out to Amy how 'quirky' she was, using all the terms we would have employed to describe him. Bloody cheek though that was at the time, his own recent growth may well have helped him see more clearly that she's as much still his playmate as a suitable wife for the tough Texan male he can turn into when he wants to.. He's not done anything about furthering an engagement or marriage arrangements even  though in relationship terms they are streets ahead of where they were when they left off last year. He's more assertive than he was when he let the sight of a little peck  from Dave on the steps of her apartment building turn him back.

  Slightly off this point - Mary referred to 'my grandmother's ring' which meant Constance's mother or mother-in-law was the last to wear it but now Constance is referring to it as 'my ring' which makes no sense as she's still alive and should be wearing it herself. Why the beep bee would she take it off and give it to Mary not knowing who would be getting it ? It's creepy to me that Amy would want something so begrudged in this old bag's lifetime. And why Constance brought it up seconds before Amy left 4A I can't see.

[joyceraye]

24 minutes ago, Touche said:

The video links on the CBS website demonstrate many episodes are under 20 minutes to include the credits.  Another reason I don't want to see the series continue past Season 10.  Could you imagine increased salaries and a 15 minute episode or less?

I download episodes from the internet. On the computer the file is 18 minutes 58 seconds. If we deduct the whooshy bits with the shapes between the scenes, the blank screens, the theme song, the credits and the essay at the end, I don't think we get a lot more than seventeen minutes viewing these days.

[camelliayao]

2 hours ago, jenafan said:

It's just hard to take a show or its ships seriously anymore when the writers won't even do it.   Don't they know there is two in a relationship and the audience would like to see both sides?   You would think that if the show has become Sheldon-centric, they'd put more effort into letting us hear from Amy's own mouth, his other half, why she is not going to run away from Sheldon again since we are banking on their relationship being successful.   If she is key to his maturation and happiness, what does he do for her that makes putting up with him worth the effort? 

How about they give us new information to go on?   What does Amy enjoy about the relationship?  Has Amy addressed her desire to move to a better apartment to Sheldon?   How is their intimate life now?  Is Amy happier?  What is Sheldon doing with his career?   Is Amy still working with monkeys?   Have they done away with date nights and see each other daily now?  What experiment are they working on together?

There are so many directions they could go rather than rehashing the same stuff over and over again.   For instance, we already know Amy dated three men.   Why bring it up again in the upcoming episode?   What's the point?    So, we can continue to hear Sheldon say how he is over his hurt and extremely happy now to have Amy back, while her reasons for being back are still a mystery other than being his "best shot?"

At one time Sheldon was concerned over Amy having reservations about the relationship.   Have his concerns been addressed, or is he willing to cover over his concerns because of her affect on softening his heart?   Even if the tables have turned, and Sheldon is showing a softer side and giving more to Amy, it would be nice to know that it is still not all about him and his feelings but both of them.

I'm sorry, but I am still left wanting more Shamy here, not 99.9% Sheldon and 0.1% Amy.

 

I agree with you.

And you know I've been dwelling on the same issue for weeks. However, recently I just let it go and stop thinking about it. Because there's no point.

The writers won't tell story from Amy's POV, they just won't. And they won't change Sheldon. Because when Sheldon acts like his old childish, inmature, ignorant self, people laugh. The writers have no motive to change the current situation whatsoever. Why Amy's POV? Why progress between Shamy? Why taking risks when they can write the same jokes that they've been writing for nine years and are so good at? Most importantly, those jokes still work! General audience love those jokes. General audience don't really care about Shamy or Lenny or Raj&Emily. If I was one of the writers, I would have done exactly the same.

I guess we'll have to come up with our own theories if we still want to stay in the ship. For example, from 916 we can see Amy clearly enjoyed their first time a lot, so let's just say their intimate life is fine. Also they're still together right? So Amy must be happy now.

Edited February 8, 2016 by camelliayao

[S.L Farrell]

ummmm....not sure where you would post this but those who love Stephen Merchant our lovely "Dave" there is a flippin hilarious video of him on Lip Sync Battles, oh and Kaley as well....so fun!

Edited February 8, 2016 by S.L Farrell

[910]

58 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

 Slightly off this point - Mary referred to 'my grandmother's ring' which meant Constance's mother or mother-in-law was the last to wear it but now Constance is referring to it as 'my ring' which makes no sense as she's still alive and should be wearing it herself. Why the beep bee would she take it off and give it to Mary not knowing who would be getting it ? It's creepy to me that Amy would want something so begrudged in this old bag's lifetime. And why Constance brought it up seconds before Amy left 4A I can't see.

I agree with the rest of your post.  As far as the ring, it does seem odd that Mee-Maw wouldn't still wear the ring.  My husband's grandmother lost her husband several years ago now, but she still wears her wedding band and refers to herself as married.  

The sloppy ring revelation seemed like a lazy way to inform Amy of the ring so Amy could nontraditionally ask for blessing, rather than the traditional Sheldon asking for Amy's hand.  Couldn't they all, including MeeMaw have been watching the documentary instead and have the fight occur after the ring is revealed in the documentary?  I also doubt asking for MeeMaw's blessing would have crossed Amy's mind if she was still trying to process Sheldon even contemplated marriage, but I guess we never truly know what our reactions would be if placed in similar circumstances. 

The only other sloppy point I try to take comfort in is the show demonstrated to viewers and MeeMaw that Amy did not come back to Sheldon because of knowledge of the ring.  I thought this was obvious already, but apparently needed emphasis.  Hopefully, Amy returned out of unconditional love without the guarantee of marriage, but if so, then please have Amy stop rolling her eyes and appreciate the recent developments without demanding more.  However, I still beat my head against the wall about why Amy cares if Penny (or Leonard for that matter, but it wasn't asked) knew about the ring or not.  Why does that matter?  Apparently, Sheldon wasn't willing to divulge to anyone even post breakup until the Spock documentary.  

Oh well, cue happy thoughts, and it is just a show, and something about rainbows and unicorns.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Touche

[camelliayao]

26 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

His 'That's what I've been doing for the past five years' was outrageous. I don't know why Amy didn't clobber him there and then. Perhaps her flabber was too gasted ?  If anybody worked on Amy it was Penny and Bernadette, not to mention Amy herself. Sheldon has been ambivalent about her growth : resisting it and benefiting from it both at the same time. How he dare claim so much credit for it is beyond me.

Maybe he meant he had been working on Amy for the past five years to turn her into a girlfriend that he can tolerate. I think he said similar things about Leonard before. Maybe to Sheldon basically everybody is insufferable, until he changes them into someone he can live with. Besides, it was a joke and people laughed. So...

 

[jenafan]

21 minutes ago, Touche said:

(snip)

The sloppy ring revelation seemed like a lazy way to inform Amy of the ring so Amy could nontraditionally ask for blessing, rather than the traditional Sheldon asking for Amy's hand.  Couldn't they all, including MeeMaw have been watching the documentary instead and have the fight occur after the ring is revealed in the documentary?  I also doubt asking for MeeMaw's blessing would have crossed Amy's mind if she was still trying to process Sheldon even contemplated marriage, but I guess we never truly know what our reactions would be if placed in similar circumstances.

 

What I had issue with was Amy telling Meemaw that if she wanted to be engaged to Sheldon, she didn't need her hand-me-down (in essence her blessing) but then asks for it in the end.   She contradicted her own statement.  

[vonmar]

1 minute ago, jenafan said:

What I had issue with was Amy telling Meemaw that if she wanted to be engaged to Sheldon, she didn't need her hand-me-down (in essence her blessing) but then asks for it in the end.   She contradicted her own statement.  

A statement made in anger and a question asked after the anger has been quelled.  She knows how much Sheldon's grandmother means to him, once she stopped being angry, she was ready to broach the subject again, in a gentler  but still direct way.

[nothereanymore]

I'm going to say something probably terrible, but I don't think they're very good writers for extended internal consistency and momentum. It's been 9 years and it's easier to see it now. Also, they go for the quick joke over characterization which adds to the visibility of the inconsistencies without the world building (so far as the Pasadena within TBBT and the backstory of the characters). I doubt any of the points on this page about Amy, the breakup, developing her character, and consistencies are worries because Amy isn't a main character and it just seems like this is. . .not so much a blind spot but out of their style (in that they're going for straight comedy like that and operating in the ways they already know how).

ETA: And I think this stems from the nature of the medium and the issues that arise in TV comedy in extended shows, not that they're bad writers or anything. Just that this highlights weaker areas.

Edited February 8, 2016 by CuriousMeans

[910]

5 minutes ago, jenafan said:

What I had issue with was Amy telling Meemaw that if she wanted to be engaged to Sheldon, she didn't need her hand-me-down (in essence her blessing) but then asks for it in the end.   She contradicted her own statement.  

Not only contradicted, but it also put Amy back in a position of wanting more from Sheldon than he was currently giving which I am so sick of.  I really hoped we were done with that dynamic post reconciliation, but I guess the writers don't know how to write Amy any other way.  Where is the Amy of Season 4 that had to tell Sheldon to slow down because she was not quite there yet?  Apparently, without pressure, Sheldon is willing to do more, but when Amy makes demands, Sheldon loses interest.  Why doesn't Amy recognize and accept this?

[jenafan]

2 minutes ago, vonmar said:

A statement made in anger and a question asked after the anger has been quelled.  She knows how much Sheldon's grandmother means to him, once she stopped being angry, she was ready to broach the subject again, in a gentler  but still direct way.

And this is one of Amy's weaknesses.    She has a tendency to react from anger, calm down, think about it, and then want to backtrack.   She did the same with the break up assuming Sheldon would just be ready to take her back.    She was presumptuous Sheldon would give her the ring just because she got meemaw's blessing.    

I was happy Sheldon put her in her place by telling her to cool her jets after everything they have been through and everything he has done thus far to tell and show her how much she means to him.   He knows he messed up, but he also knows that having sex isn't a fix all and they are not ready after only just recently reconciled.

[vonmar]

4 minutes ago, Touche said:

Not only contradicted, but it also put Amy back in a position of wanting more from Sheldon than he was currently giving which I am so sick of.  I really hoped we were done with that dynamic post reconciliation, but I guess the writers don't know how to write Amy any other way.  Where is the Amy of Season 4 that had to tell Sheldon to slow down because she was not quite there yet?  Apparently, without pressure, Sheldon is willing to do more, but when Amy makes demands, Sheldon loses interest.  Why doesn't Amy recognize and accept this?

But in a way I think she does.  We're 5 seasons beyond their introductions, their relationship is now at a new level.  When Amy is stroking his shoulder after the Meemaw blessing/ring talk, he tells her to settle down over the subject, it ain't happening right now. She gets it.

From what we have seen in the next two taping reports, if I recall correctly the relationship status is discussed during/after FWF. but the ring takes a back seat for awhile.

[TateTheUnicorn]

I'm just going to say, these posts in the past few hours are the reason I don't like overanalysing

[Kathy2611]

Found this amazing artist on Facebook, Regina rgbcn ....

[2L344]

7 hours ago, EvilStewie said:

I disagree here, only because Sheldon had to be prompted to admit it. He just said like 2 episode ago how much Amy changed him, and then ran out the door to get her back. This is not newly attained knowledge, she has helped him, and if he could say it then then why not now? 

yeah i think it goes both ways though unfortunately. we also have an Amy who runs back to Sheldon warts and all in 9.8 and despite all of his "growth" since she still makes herself a martyr to Meemaw during their pissing match. 

they both still have some growing to do

4 hours ago, jenafan said:

I agree 100% with all of this.

Sheldon acknowledged how good Amy is for him by his relating to his meemaw how she stuck by his pop pop while at the same time telling her that he knows Amy has things to work on as well.   Amy's translation of what Sheldon was trying to say was absolutely correct.   Of course, Sheldon wanted to elaborate, and Penny cut him off before he could mess up by saying more than was necessary.

Because I have had the flu, I haven't felt much like participating in the commentary the past few days.   However, I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinions over the meemaw episode.   I've watched it a few more times, and meemaw's actions aren't bothering me as much as they did.   The reason is because I have gone back to S1 and started watching all the episodes in order from the beginning.    The episodes were longer.    There weren't as many characters.   More time could be spent on a specific storyline.  This show has been full of inconsistences that run rampant, starting with the first episode.

What I have come to realize is the episode times are too short where we are almost watching more commercials than show now.   There are too many characters.   The storylines are being crammed together and rushed rather than explored the way they should be.   The show has become Sheldon-centric more than ever, and we will likely never get Amy's POV.   In the attempt to throw in a joke line, the writer's are willing to contradict their own canon.

It's just hard to take a show or its ships seriously anymore when the writers won't even do it.   Don't they know there is two in a relationship and the audience would like to see both sides?   You would think that if the show has become Sheldon-centric, they'd put more effort into letting us hear from Amy's own mouth, his other half, why she is not going to run away from Sheldon again since we are banking on their relationship being successful.   If she is key to his maturation and happiness, what does he do for her that makes putting up with him worth the effort?  

Apparently the writers couldn't spare a minute of episode time to include such a line from Amy.    I would rather have seen this than Amy's presumptious prompting to Sheldon for the ring by rubbing his shoulder after listening to her soliloquy asking for pity from his meemaw for putting up with him and acknowledging her badge for doing so.

Everyone already knows how difficult Sheldon is.    The fact the writers keep bringing this up has become redundant and boring.

How about they give us new information to go on?   What does Amy enjoy about the relationship?  Has Amy addressed her desire to move to a better apartment to Sheldon?   How is their intimate life now?  Is Amy happier?  What is Sheldon doing with his career?   Is Amy still working with monkeys?   Have they done away with date nights and see each other daily now?  What experiment are they working on together?

There are so many directions they could go rather than rehashing the same stuff over and over again.   For instance, we already know Amy dated three men.   Why bring it up again in the upcoming episode?   What's the point?    So, we can continue to hear Sheldon say how he is over his hurt and extremely happy now to have Amy back, while her reasons for being back are still a mystery other than being his "best shot?"

At one time Sheldon was concerned over Amy having reservations about the relationship.   Have his concerns been addressed, or is he willing to cover over his concerns because of her affect on softening his heart?   Even if the tables have turned, and Sheldon is showing a softer side and giving more to Amy, it would be nice to know that it is still not all about him and his feelings but both of them.

I'm sorry, but I am still left wanting more Shamy here, not 99.9% Sheldon and 0.1% Amy.

 

I've been saying this from the beginning, that I'm not so sure Sheldon is 100% over the break up and he is just covering it up because he is so happy to get Amy back and doesn't want to rock the love boat they are on right now.    Given his line in the next episode, it seems he's avoided talking about it.

Amen, and Im glad youre feeling better welcome back!

[Kathy2611]

And these ...

[EvilStewie]

31 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

yeah i think it goes both ways though unfortunately. we also have an Amy who runs back to Sheldon warts and all in 9.8 and despite all of his "growth" since she still makes herself a martyr to Meemaw during their pissing match. 

 

I agree with what your saying, but I think there is more to it. She told him in the car after he basically ditched her, she cared about him even though he wasn't perfect, then stayed away longer because he is "unbearable"  and he wanted her to show empathy for that, NO! What I really think it going on here though, is Sheldon knows Amy doesn't think he is perfect, and I think he feels vulnerable. I think if they broke up again, it would kill him! If you watch that unbearable clip, look at his face right after she says the word, its very telling!  Acting like you don't have flaws cause you are worried, ain't gonna help..which if you continue past that part on the same clip he points a finger at penny being unpleasant when she is sick. I get where he is coming from, but...

Edited February 8, 2016 by EvilStewie

[2L344]

As a fan of the show I enjoy the debates and endless speculations on this forum. As a fan of the show I am willing to suspend my belief in certain things in order to just sit back and enjoy my favorite show. You hear that writers?? Totally willing to avert my eyes from time to time in order for the show to progress and for me to be able to continue having fun with these characters youve created for me during these last 9 years...

I do wish, however, after enduring the agony that was the 9 episode break up plot with Shamy that we are all familiar with, that the writers would discontinue the "half in, half out" way of telling the post break up story. if youre not gonna bother giving us some insight into Amys POV on love, the break up, the make up, and life as it moves forward (and really, im not asking that you DO at this point), then lets just leave the break up in the past and let us just assume its all good from here on out--im actually good with that simplistic approach. 

(steps off his rant box)

 

That being said, the episodes following FWF appears to be just what the doctor ordered, whoopeee!

Edited February 8, 2016 by 2L344

[nickelette424]

3 hours ago, joyceraye said:

His 'That's what I've been doing for the past five years' was outrageous. I don't know why Amy didn't clobber him there and then. Perhaps her flabber was too gasted ?  If anybody worked on Amy it was Penny and Bernadette, not to mention Amy herself. Sheldon has been ambivalent about her growth : resisting it and benefiting from it both at the same time. How he dare claim so much credit for it is beyond me. Amy's admission in response to this statement I thought was generous in the extreme. It might be because she's registering the changes in him that's she's seen over the last few weeks  while acknowledging that his current childlikeness is probably no more than the temporarily infantilising presence of his meemaw  plus the stress of the confrontations -  which he's coping with not too badly at all, considering.

   He is intelligent enough to have noticed that compared to other women, Amy is still different. Before he started acknowledging he was an 'odd fellow' who didn't grasp things, he once  pointed out to Amy how 'quirky' she was, using all the terms we would have employed to describe him. Bloody cheek though that was at the time, his own recent growth may well have helped him see more clearly that she's as much still his playmate as a suitable wife for the tough Texan male he can turn into when he wants to.. He's not done anything about furthering an engagement or marriage arrangements even  though in relationship terms they are streets ahead of where they were when they left off last year. He's more assertive than he was when he let the sight of a little peck  from Dave on the steps of her apartment building turn him back.

  Slightly off this point - Mary referred to 'my grandmother's ring' which meant Constance's mother or mother-in-law was the last to wear it but now Constance is referring to it as 'my ring' which makes no sense as she's still alive and should be wearing it herself. Why the beep bee would she take it off and give it to Mary not knowing who would be getting it ? It's creepy to me that Amy would want something so begrudged in this old bag's lifetime. And why Constance brought it up seconds before Amy left 4A I can't see.

Actually,  I think this is completely unfair to Sheldon here.   Sheldon played probably the biggest part in changing Amy's life.   And he might have resisted speeding up to catch up with her, but he has always,  always accepted her for who she was at face value.  A lot more than she has of him.  He is not wrong that she is a work in progress.   He really isn't.   I hate this idea that she's some freaking martyr.  Just like he wasn't wrong in Workplace during his speech at her for.   I wish the writers would let that stuff stand because it is the truth.  Sheldon began the socialization of Amy.  No one else wanted anything to do with her.  She was worse than Sheldon in the beginning.   Amy's admission was the full scope of the truth that they have changed each other,  but Sheldon's statement wasn't false at all and it is again disappointing that they let him speak the truth, then treat it like he is the clueless one all the time.   Sorry,  but I really hate this saint Amy, poor put upon Amy crap.  It's unfair to Sheldon and it is actually quite unfair to Amy as the depth of her imperfect character is beautiful and funny.   I wish people would remember that about her.  She is quirky,  she is a weirdo, while much better she definitely struggled with social interacts.  She can be a nag.   She can get so caught up in fantasy that she let's it cloud her reality.  She holds into things that bother her instead of communicating and it blows up.  She has work to do.   She played a role in the issues that lead to the break up.  This is not a Amy bashing posts.  This is a posts championing the beautifully imperfect Amy character.  She is more than a put upon woman.   She has her own story and struggles which don't include the difficult man she choose to be with.

**sorry if this long rant doesn't make sense.  I'm hopped up on Nyquil**

[S.L Farrell]

To chime in on the earlier speculations on what the 200th episode will be about....I am going to throw in with Sheldon's Birthday idea....I would love it if Amy went all out and somehow managed to get Adam West to attend, I would also love it if there was a showdown where she brings Leslie Winkle down a peg or two....even if its been many seasons since we have seen her last, it would be great if Amy ripped her a new one.....lol.....IMO Amy totally has it in her to give a massive dressing down to someone messing with her sweet Baboo!

I would also love it if the party included costumes as it has been awhile since we have seen our loveable nerds all costumed up....and if they did, I think that Amy dressed up as Catwoman (Julie Newmar style) would be fantastic.....oh the dreams I have.....looking forward to seeing what the 200th will actually have in store for us!

Edited February 8, 2016 by S.L Farrell

[2L344]

3 hours ago, nickelette424 said:

Actually,  I think this is completely unfair to Sheldon here.   Sheldon played probably the biggest part in changing Amy's life.   And he might have resisted speeding up to catch up with her, but he has always,  always accepted her for who she was at face value.  A lot more than she has of him.  He is not wrong that she is a work in progress.   He really isn't.   I hate this idea that she's some freaking martyr.  Just like he wasn't wrong in Workplace during his speech at her for.   I wish the writers would let that stuff stand because it is the truth.  Sheldon began the socialization of Amy.  No one else wanted anything to do with her.  She was worse than Sheldon in the beginning.   Amy's admission was the full scope of the truth that they have changed each other,  but Sheldon's statement wasn't false at all and it is again disappointing that they let him speak the truth, then treat it like he is the clueless one all the time.   Sorry,  but I really hate this saint Amy, poor put upon Amy crap.  It's unfair to Sheldon and it is actually quite unfair to Amy as the depth of her imperfect character is beautiful and funny.   I wish people would remember that about her.  She is quirky,  she is a weirdo, while much better she definitely struggled with social interacts.  She can be a nag.   She can get so caught up in fantasy that she let's it cloud her reality.  She holds into things that bother her instead of communicating and it blows up.  She has work to do.   She played a role in the issues that lead to the break up.  This is not a Amy bashing posts.  This is a posts championing the beautifully imperfect Amy character.  She is more than a put upon woman.   She has her own story and struggles which don't include the difficult man she choose to be with.

**sorry if this long rant doesn't make sense.  I'm hopped up on Nyquil**

A few of us have said these exact things on this thread, makes perfect sense to us (not all folks agree mind you, but I do lol). I've come to the conclusion that the wonderfully quirky and somewhat socially inept Amy grew up, mostly. She was portrayed as a lot more normalized ever since season 7, more so in season 8, and then season 9 yikes!! The days of the Amy who took pleasure in conducting experiments on her fellow friends, who more often sided with Sheldon than didn't, and acted inappropriately and silly herself are over it seems. I said it just recently, and a few of others have too, that I kind of miss that Amy. I miss the Amy who found Sheldon's eidetic memory sexy, so much so that she would have Sheldon recite the ingredients to a food item just to brag about it.

I miss the Amy who once appeared to be equally interested in learning whether or not Penny got the part in a porn audition when Sheldon suggested Penny probably couldn't afford to be too picky in turning those roles down lol (the Amy of our current season would probably have rolled her eyes, groaned, and dressed Sheldon down for even suggesting such a notion to Penny)...the Amy that didn't take Sheldon too seriously when he was acting like, well, Sheldon-- the Amy that explained to Sheldon that they weren't going to seek revenge when they were upset at one another, and actually apologized to Sheldon for ruining Raiders for him (some Shamy fans would point to that scene as an Amy who had no backbone, but I use it as an example of an Amy who wanted to empathize with Sheldon even though she inadvertently caused the issue, and even though an apology was really unnecessary)...

I am torn between missing the fun that was THAT Amy versus embracing an Amy who now, though still having issues like you mentioned regarding communication and fantasy vs. reality dilemmas, appears to have grown up. I would like to see a little less lecturing from Sheldon's gf, and a little more "I love him quirks and all and let me SHOW you that I'm glad we're back!" Sex was fine, but even some shared little moments would be really swell! I do hope that in the rest of this season post break up,  we see some of the old Amy resurface again now that this relationship moves forward. I'm hoping that this newer, stronger relationship with Sheldon puts her mind to rest a bit, and that she can be that quirky funny gal who involves herself with Sheldon as his "partner in crime" again. 

Because frankly her "own story", as you put it, doesn't appear to interest the writers enough to tell in any amount of detail. Sure would be great, though, if they ever do! Now, I'm not suggesting Amy kisses Sheldon's butt, but I would like to see her and Sheldon's roles appear to be more of a union versus the "clueless" narcissist being straightened out by the new and improved girlfriend. And before everyone jumps my case and points out how cute Amy was in the first Skype sessions after coitus (and yes, she indeed was very cute!), just hear me out-- since that episode we had the Amy who took a powder during Sheldon's illness, lectured him on empathy, and now with Meemaw throwing out lines like "who said I wanted to marry him" and "I'm his best shot". Okay, Sheldon grew from empathy episode, and he defends Amy against Meemaw and we see that Amy probably didn't mean some of that junk she spewed, I Get it. But can we just change the direction a bit now?

Im optimistic that we have some really fun episodes on the way, and 9.16 sounds like what I've been waiting for in TBBT all season! It appears the writers may finally be putting the break up angst behind them once the dialogue that occurs in FWF plays out, and that's a good thing.

**Ha, my rant went longer!

Edited February 8, 2016 by 2L344

[wowbagger]

10 hours ago, nickelette424 said:

Actually,  I think this is completely unfair to Sheldon here.   Sheldon played probably the biggest part in changing Amy's life.   And he might have resisted speeding up to catch up with her, but he has always,  always accepted her for who she was at face value.  A lot more than she has of him.  He is not wrong that she is a work in progress.   He really isn't.   I hate this idea that she's some freaking martyr.  Just like he wasn't wrong in Workplace during his speech at her for.   I wish the writers would let that stuff stand because it is the truth.  Sheldon began the socialization of Amy.  No one else wanted anything to do with her.  She was worse than Sheldon in the beginning.   Amy's admission was the full scope of the truth that they have changed each other,  but Sheldon's statement wasn't false at all and it is again disappointing that they let him speak the truth, then treat it like he is the clueless one all the time.   Sorry,  but I really hate this saint Amy, poor put upon Amy crap.  It's unfair to Sheldon and it is actually quite unfair to Amy as the depth of her imperfect character is beautiful and funny.   I wish people would remember that about her.  She is quirky,  she is a weirdo, while much better she definitely struggled with social interacts.  She can be a nag.   She can get so caught up in fantasy that she let's it cloud her reality.  She holds into things that bother her instead of communicating and it blows up.  She has work to do.   She played a role in the issues that lead to the break up.  This is not a Amy bashing posts.  This is a posts championing the beautifully imperfect Amy character.  She is more than a put upon woman.   She has her own story and struggles which don't include the difficult man she choose to be with.

**sorry if this long rant doesn't make sense.  I'm hopped up on Nyquil**

SING IT, NYQUILETTE!

Sheldon's calling Amy his 'little work in progress' was no less than the truth. She is a work in progress. She is frequently immature, stubborn, selfish, petulant, self-pitying, self-righteous, passive-aggressive and manipulative. She is also brilliant, venturesome, willing to embrace change and extremely patient with the man she loves- a patience that cannot come easy to her (see 'immature').

But once again, the show presented Sheldon saying something that is perfectly true (a la 'I like you, quirks and all') only to promptly undercut it with Lenny's exasperated reactions (while the writers all but flashed #LOLWHATANOOB #SHELDONFAIL #CLASSICSHELDON #LEGEND signs at us).

And I like that Amy has flaws. I like some more than others, but all of them add up to a sublime cocktail of 'Oh, Amy. Oh, girl.' But I get very frustrated when the show has no interest in exploring them as flaws. And increasingly I think that that is because the showrunners really don't seem to think of them as flaws. They seem to identify so strongly with characters in Amy or Leonard's position that they seem unaware that these characters have issues that deserve examination. Instead, anything they do or say is presented as intrinsically valid, even if they don't get what they want. Whereas Sheldon's perspective (and to a smaller degree, Penny's) is never presented as valid, even if the writers think it's hilarious for him to get away with outrageous behaviour. Sheldon's seldom been allowed, in-show, to make an argument for why he doesn't want to have sex/conventional romance, or is hesitant. It's just presented as automatically wrong, his resistance is seen as maybe-sympathetic (because awwww, Jim Parsons's face) but never valid. When he pushes back, it is with inertia and an increasingly unpleasant manner, so that of course you sympathise with poor, put-upon Amy.

And I do, I do. But I have never lost sight of the fact that-as much as I pity Amy- I don't see that, because she has gone without, Sheldon is automatically and forever in her debt (for an obligation he didn't really ask for, and that was always within Amy's power to refuse to extend). I do not see that Amy has no accountability for her actions (even if I don't think she is accountable to Gorgon Meemaw, really). I do not see Amy putting her own head in the yoke as a virtue. I do not find self-appointed martyrdom sympathetic or virtuous. And I do not think it lets Amy off the hook forever and amen.

BUT. That doesn't mean that I need Amy to be an exuberant ball of ker-raazy fun always. Neither do I demand that she puts up with whatever shit Sheldon doles out with an indulgent chuckle. I am willing to explore Amy's martyr complex, her frequent selfishness and immaturity, as the fascinating flaws they are. But if you're going to show me flaws, but not acknowledge them as such, it's weird. If you're going to tell me that Amy learned something in her time away- that one goofy afternoon with Sheldon made Amy want to try again without any conditions- you kind of also have to show me that Amy is happier in the relationship than she was before she walked. It's a head-scratcher to have her be happy only in some sort of post-coital afterglow (and I'm counting the Skype sessions in this, BTW), and seemingly back to tutting and sighing in most other contexts. You're telling me it's an improvement? You.....sort of have to show me, too. Otherwise the cognitive dissonance makes my head spin.

Anyway. Bring on the group episode, which seems to correct at least some of these complaints!

Edited February 8, 2016 by wowbagger

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

7 hours ago, CuriousMeans said:

I'm going to say something probably terrible, but I don't think they're very good writers for extended internal consistency and momentum. It's been 9 years and it's easier to see it now. Also, they go for the quick joke over characterization which adds to the visibility of the inconsistencies without the world building (so far as the Pasadena within TBBT and the backstory of the characters). I doubt any of the points on this page about Amy, the breakup, developing her character, and consistencies are worries because Amy isn't a main character and it just seems like this is. . .not so much a blind spot but out of their style (in that they're going for straight comedy like that and operating in the ways they already know how).

ETA: And I think this stems from the nature of the medium and the issues that arise in TV comedy in extended shows, not that they're bad writers or anything. Just that this highlights weaker areas.

I'm gonna go ahead and say they are kinda bad writers! They are lazy. 

Yes there will be a certain amount of writer rotation, people coming and going BUT this show is repeated about a thousand times a day it is not that hard for a new writer to re-watch old shows and familiarise themselves with the canon. The people in charge of the show have all been there since day one and they should know that they named Penny's Dad 'Bob' in one episode and then flagged that when someone called him 'Wyatt' in a later ep!

Sheldon has Asthma in the season one episode where Leonard wants to get a cat and then next we hear he doesn't and Leonard does? Sheldon's Mom has to go home when he is visiting abroad when he was 15 to help his Dad put the aluminium house back on it's stilts ... but his Dad died when he was 14?!

... There are LOADS of these brain farts all throughout the show! (sitting trying to name them all will upset me) Which is what can happen when there are too many cooks in the writing pot BUT Bill, Chuck and Steve have all been there since day one (they are also writers) and they should pick this stuff up. It's lazy and my least favourite part of the show!