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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 9


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1 hour ago, vonmar said:

I cannot believe what I am reading here....what is going on?

From Earworm going forward we have seen (and will see) many lovely moments between them, drunk texting, secret sharing, flirting on a couch in a cabin, Fun with Flags, etc.

But no, a new episode tapes and Amy is suddenly a doormat, an abuser, insecure, desperate, fragile, threatened and whatever else. This is not what I have seen or read.  And that is not what I took from the latest taping information.  

To me AFF is full on AFF in this episode, she manipulated Sheldon into thinking that she enjoyed The Relationship Agreement, she manipulated Leonard into thinking she was on his side, she turned the tables on all of the players in an episode that was a loaded story line about how friends and lovers sometimes use manipulation for their own purposes. 

No offense to any of you....But I personally won't let two or three lines from AFF from the most recent taping let me forget how far they have come since the break-up.

 

 

 

^^^^^^^THIS!!!   Soooo much this!!!  

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, vonmar said:

The Sales Call Sublimation: Charming Skype sessions, they miss each other, sweet smiles, shy glances
The Empathy Optimization: Is there anyone who wants to be around sick Sheldon? She gently guides him through making up for his bad behavior, he respects her advice and follows it
The Meemaw Materialization: But he does stick up for her, to the one person he has loved and admired forever
The Valentino Submergence: FWF is their thing now, now that she was back in his life he wanted to share that with her again.  When Raj was suffering, she got him to share his pain with Raj  The sweetest part being cut off by Lenny and their confetti....so it's not like they had turned on a PBS special, they were talking about their feelings.
The Positive Negative Reaction: Sheldon "drunk dials" Amy, he wants her there with him.  She sits with him at the bar, he salutes her with his glass when she is singing.
The Celebration Experimentation:  Amy has the idea for the party, she fixes his ties and calms him down.  She fights with Leonard over who should tend to him after his panic attach, she offers up a moving toast.
The Application Deterioration: Amy defends Sheldon's contribution to the paper they wrote.

For me it's always been about what I see in an episode, not about what I don't see.   Cock-eyed optimist.

I'm not trying to convince you of the points I made. I actually agree more with you than what I wrote. However, my original point was to say that your optimism will probably be shared with the vast majority of people in this thread once the next two episodes air. It will help all of the bright spots in the episodes listed above shine a little brighter.

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14 minutes ago, DDaisy said:

Which, I think is exactly the plot set up that a few others have been pointing out since the taping. Penny is at a major crossroads in that she's finding herself settled into a grown up life with a wonderful man and a well paying, stable job - but the commitment-phobe in her is panicking. 

Letting Sheldon continue to call all of the shots and coddling him because he's "too fragile" for her to put her foot down and insist that she and her husband live alone is her way of hiding from reality. It's almost as if she and Leonard still maintaining two residences gives her a safety net. Right now, to Penny, Sheldon is the person that is allowing her to stay stagnant while Leonard is the epitome of the future that she's terrified to embrace.

I think Amy and Leonard are starting to see that - and neither of them are going to put up with it for much longer. Shamy will come out the other end alright, they've already seen life without one another and seem pretty damn committed not to make the other feel taken for granted again. Sheldon especially seems to have gained a lot of trust in Amy's opinions and observations. Lenny, well, they may be in for a harder time...

What you said makes a lot of sense. I'm not being negative here, but after every "frustrating" episode, people analyze the writers' intentions and we believe that this is a build up for something big, that the storyline will go somewhere. But more often than not, the story goes nowhere...Like there were similar plots in 721 and that went nowhere.

I remember after 909, we wrote a lot of essays about how Shamy would become friends first and slowly regain trusts towards each other to the point they can't fight their feeling anymore blahblahblah. That made so much sense. But instead we got their reconciliation in the next episode. Not tha t I don't like it, but, well, the writers could've built up more for their reconciliation...

Edited by camelliayao
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22 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

What you said makes a lot of sense. I'm not being negative here, but after every "frustrating" episode, people analyze the writers' intentions and we believe that this is a build up for something big, that the storyline will go somewhere. But more often than not, the story goes nowhere...Like there were similar plots in 721 and that went nowhere.

I remember after 909, we wrote a lot of essays about how Shamy would become friends first and slowly regain trusts towards each other to the point they can't fight their feeling anymore blahblahblah. That made so much sense. But instead we got their reconciliation in the next episode. Not tha t I don't like it, but, well, the writers could've built up more for their reconciliation...

You're absolutely right, we really never know what the writers are gonna do. We can try to analyze it to death, but in the end we still end up pretty gobsmacked sometimes. 

200w.gif

(All of us on episode night after writing/reading volumes of carefully thought out plot possibilities and character arcs.)

Edited by DDaisy
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Hi! I'm new to this forum and I'm enjoying reading everyone's thoughts. I already posted my thoughts of the latest episode in the discussion thread, but I have to say as a massive Shamy fan, I'm loving this season. I trust the writers and where they're taking this show, and I think a lot of people need to calm down and stop over analysing. Take each episode as it comes :)

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They all manipulate each other at times but that's life everyone does it. In the specific case of Amy and Sheldon I can think of numerous examples they have manipulated each other. The rest of the characters on the show do it as well.

I think the writers at times are between a rock and a hard place, there has to be character growth but then how quickly do you implement it? The show has undoubtedly evolved from its early beginnings from a nerdy/geeky comedy to more of a life comedy with elements of nerdiness. Whilst I may not laugh out loud as much as I did I honestly still enjoy the show as much as I did early on and that's accepting it's different. I think the show naturally had to evolve this way otherwise it would have become stale and I doubt we would be at a season 9.

For the good of the show they need to sort the living arrangement situation out, I think it would be beneficial for both the Lenny and Shamy relationships.

Edited by Jonny83
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2 minutes ago, Darcyfitz said:

I too don't like how some people think Amy has 'manipulated' Sheldon in the past and present. Most of her prodding has been done for Sheldon's own good, enjoyment of things he would have shunned needlessly, and to gently try to open his eyes. True, a lot of it benefited Amy, but how can you be in a relationship where only one person is benefiting ALL of the time without leveling the playing field? It isn't fair. As far as 'manipulatng' him, Amy isn't the only one. His own mother and grandmother do it on a regular basis and probably have since he was a child. We don't call them manipulators. Because we know they love him. Mary will do and say whatever it takes to lead her Shelly back on the straight and narrow, and has done several times. I don't see anyone accusing her of any wrongdoing. Why is it so bad for Amy to do so, as a way of coping with the GREAT (lets face it) challenge of being in love with a man such as Sheldon Cooper?

IMO, in Sheldon's life on the show, every woman has a different 'caretaking' role with him.  Bernadette tells him like it is, sometimes with bluntness so fearful that he is actually frightened. Penny babies him, and I think it's growing worse as the seasons progress; so much so that she sides with Sheldon on matters that she should be siding with her husband. And Amy is in the middle; trying to balance understanding his quirks and not grow frustrated with constantly wanting more affection, more intimacy, more level ground...yet being considerate to his needs and feelings. You can't blame the woman that after five  years of waiting for the sign the relationship was moving along, she'd doubted the bond they shared was anything more than a deep admiration and familiarity on Sheldon's part.

Using your post (sorry Darcy) to ask a general question. What is it, you people would need to finally be happy with "Sheldon is moving fast enough, is affectionate enough etc..." because I still see the same comments of how Amy deserves more and is entitled to go for it, well, no matter what (manipulation, passive-agressive comments etc...) I saw Sheldon this year go to the very deep bottom - in dignity department at least. He got over a lot, Amy breaking up with him with no reason, or no communication, her dating dating several man and even being physical at least with one of them, her, asking him to be his girlfriend like it was a sure deal, he even give in for sex, even while apparently having no such desire. And he continues to ignore Amy's passive-aggressive comments, accepts her manipulative attempts, even let's her lecturing him on empathy, while ignoring she more or less showed him very little of empathy this year and in general, is just as selfish and empathy-lacking as him.  To be honest I can't imagine myself taking back a person that I went through all of it because (even while intention was no to hurt of course.). I'd probably throw that idea like a dirty sock. Sheldon did not. And he's even  over and over giving into almost everything Amy desires lately. Is that still not enough proof he's (well for me unhealthy) in love with her? How is Sheldon the only one benefiting all the time? It seems to me like Amy is benefiting big time this year, while Sheldon has not much more than Amy's few lectures and occasional support. Isn't the giving/taking  part of relationship suppose to be at least remotely equal? And yep. Before somebody asks, I'm aware of everything Sheldon did in the past, I consider it being "paid off"  by the way Amy is behaving this year. At least in the "sins" department I consider them more than equal now. 

And to the mother/Amy comment, there's an easy answer for me. Sheldon's mother is Sheldon's mother. Yep. Mother's do that, that's can be just as easily one of the most popular reasons, why we're so eager to move out and find a grown up adults who will not be "babying " us, but become our equal, respective partner. Manipulation for our child's good is one of parenting methods everybody uses once  a time, it shouldn't become a mechanisms that drives a relationship of two consent adults. 

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2 hours ago, Cindi May said:

In a normal healthy relationship you shouldn't manipulate your partner at all. If you need to do that to be happy, you're simply not right for each other.

It depends on what "manipulate" means; in Amy's case it's just wording in a certain way once in a while some innocent requests (like a date-night) in order to have a positive answer or not telling her boyfriend that she found their (annual or at most quarterly....) meeting over the RA kind of boring. I find it pretty harmless and...yes...in a relationship even healthy, since Sheldon was happier as a result of said "manipulation". 

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Yeah, can I just say , I've never seen Amy as a manipulator. Her boyfriend is the typical fighting his feelings and affection guy (used to be). Manipulation is pretty much the ONLY way that you can stay with a guy like that and Slowly making him open up to you... I mean, he was never the type of guy to chase her if she , instead of manipulating, just stated her ground. He would've just let her go and denied his feelings...

it took him what, 5,5 years to realize she's important to him and to chase her?

So I don't think Amy's the evil manipulator... If anything, she's a saint to me, cause she's so patient , I could never wait for somebody to open up to me for so long.

 

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22 minutes ago, brilliantfool said:

Btw guys I forgot 1 scene from the ER!! I mean I only actually remembered it today.

 

So in the ER at some point they adress the Shenny friendship, while they're waiting for Howard (don't remember the details ), I think Penny is compared to some comic character by either Leonard or Amy, and Sheldon says "but that's not true, she (that comic character) was manipulating men using her naked body" (smth like that), and all Penny does is takes me to the Lego store" (in his typical innocent clueless Sheldon's voice )

 

 

I literally remembered it like 1 minute before my flight was about to take off, and I tried and tried to post it, but my internet was already not working.. And I'm like Sheldon, I'm so scared being off the grid lol.

 

Anyway, hopefully it makes you feel better if you're worried about Shenny. I think it makes a difference a little.

Thanks a lot BF! One question, would you say that the fight and the whole ep was more about S/L/P dynamics or was Amy heavily involved in that?

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12 hours ago, April said:

To the surprise of no one I'm also utterly baffled by the accusations hurled at Amy's character (and by extension the writers) and frankly I have been ever since the topic came up big time with the breakup. I'm sorry to say but I don't recognise the character from many of those "But my Amy is like this...!" descriptions because they seem to be very pick-and-choose about what characteristics Amy is allowed to have and let everything else fall by the wayside and then act surprised that the writers are not doing the same but keep her consistent even with those traits that the poster finds to be undesirable.

So yes, from what we got in past Amy wasn't the biggest fan of the RA. That is canon as far as I'm concerned. And I'm sorry that some people are still caught up in the idea that Amy must have loved everything about it just because she said "That's so romantic." when it was first presented to her - even though in the same episode she already wondered if she should have gotten a lawyer. @mirs1 has listed a few other examples already.  What Amy loved the most about it was the fact that she could use it to her advantage. Most of the times the RA has been mentioned it was in a context that allowed Amy to get something out of Sheldon because god forbid that guy is doing something "relationshippy" out of his own volition! It was a crutch to ease Sheldon into this whole relationship thing while still keeping this tired old "Sheldon is still Sheldon" song playing in the background for the audience. I'm sympathetic to the now somewhat messy situation that fandom has taken this idea of Amy loving the RA just as much as Sheldon did and ran away with it for years, idealising it and turning it into something a lot more sappy in fanfics and head canons than it ever was on the actual show. I've certainly been there myself. That isn't to say that I think it was all a terribly bleak situation as my writing this all up makes it sound. I still think it was a helpful tool for them to figure out their relationship and it allowed a constant dialogue about what they wanted and what they were comfortable with. And as such I'll probably always have a soft spot for the RA in my little fan heart.

But in the end the characters are growing and evolving and I feel truly sorry if that doesn't go the way some want it to go. And I'm very well aware that a big source of my optimism here is coming from the simple fact that I haven't been arguing those same god damn points for 3 years in a row now like some of you guys. I get your frustration, really.

As for Amy I do think that a lot of her early "he's the best boyfriend" enthusiasm came from a time when she was still wearing rose coloured glasses but those have now decidedly come off. Heck, that very quote was from an episode where Sheldon was being a selfish ass and Amy was mad at him but didn't know what to do about it. And this kind of helplessness and insecurity has been just as much part of her characterisation as any other, hence why she resorts to using the RA as a lever and doesn't shy away from the occasional manipulation. She literally doesn't know what else to do. Between then and now Amy has gotten a heavy dose of reality of what it is like to be with in a relationship with Sheldon. So much so that it was pushing her to her breaking point.

Which brings us to the present. From what I gather they don't have a RA anymore. All that talk is decidedly in past tense. Likewise I don't see any big manipulations by Amy here. Sure, she knows how to push Sheldon's buttons like when she's trying to persuade him to agree to the cabin trip. But otherwise? She's upfront about the things that are bothering her like when he's an ass when he's sick. And in the latest TR she's merely revealing how she manipulated him in the past. That is her being honest here. And furthermore she isn't shy to provoke him. The Amy of old would have been too worried about him being a flight risk to even dare to do that. I rather like that she managed to grow her spine back after the breakup. And on the other side of the same coin we have a Sheldon who is now a lot less of a Mr. Grumpy Pants and actually embracing this relationship.

And yes, I know, "but the coitus thing!!" No, I don't think that this means anything in terms of "Sheldon is rejecting a desperate Amy again" because Sheldon is showing his affection towards Amy constantly - it's just not in the physical ways we all dreamt up after the big news broke. I know, bummer. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. What we got instead is a string of situations that 1) shows Amy being flirty while Sheldon merely doesn't get it (which imho is different than outright scolding her for not keeping it in her pants like he did in the past) , and 2) is becoming more and more sexually loaded from both sides, if the people who actually saw those upcoming episodes are to be believed. What I get from this is that the writers are having a ball ramping up the sexual tension between the two until the next big coitus episode, whenever that may be. I personally also don't think that Amy is looking desperate in all of this. I think for the most part she's just enjoying herself cause Sheldon doesn't mind and she doesn't really have anything to lose, has she? If one day Sheldon starts picking up on the flirting and one thing leads to another good for her! If he doesn't then there's still her next birthday coming up! And the idea of Amy being desperate for physical affection also comes with the side assumption that just because we don't see it on screen means that nothing is happening off screen either. Like, I don't think we're supposed to believe that they never kissed between 9x11 and now.

So yeah... as always I'll be looking forward to what the last episodes hold for us.

You make so much sense :) . 

I agree with you, our Shamy are happy and stronger than ever and I'd say - more honest then ever with each other !

 

Edited by Tensor
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10 minutes ago, Maddie said:

Yeah I'm also baffled and frankly a little offended by this idea that because Shamy haven't had sex since their first time, that somehow means that there is dysfunction or that they're being abusive to each other or that they're not equally as strong as they were the night of their consummation. Who is anybody to judge how frequently a couple should have sex? Some people just don't have a very high sex drive, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I know I don't. Some couples have sex every day, others have sex every couple of months. If they're both happy and satisfied, what's the problem? No one gets to decide how often a couple should have sex. And before someone says that Amy isn't happy or satisfied and back to being desperate, sex-starved, and searching for affection, I've seen absolutely no signs of that. From what I've seen, she's been flirtatious, giggly, confident, happy, and has repeatedly referred to that night being one of the greatest things to have happened to her and  how special it was, etc. Would she like to have sex again? Sure. But I've seen no signs of her pushing for it or getting frustrated or impatient or that she's not satisfied. But maybe I just see things differently.

Besides that, we've now had three episodes in a row where people who have attended these tapings say there was blatant sexual tension between them. The writers are clearly teasing us and building to their second time, which will happen much sooner than Amy's next birthday, I am very confident about that. So I frankly don't understand the concern that Sheldon doesn't desire her or that Amy is pressuring him.

Agree Maddie - 100% , well said :) 

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I think I am watching the same show as you. I can't like your comments more than once or I would. I have been watching this relationship from the beginning and routing for them to be it for each other because let's face it most of us saw how perfect they were for each other in that coffee shop. Even Howard saw it. Now from the third episode of season 4 I have seen Amy as the, for lack of a better term, manipulator. Here is my example and I apologize if this is a repeat, I have not gone back and read all the posts.

Amy: "I'll agree to that as long as you stipulate that 80% of our difficulties were caused by you."

Sheldon: "Ill go as high as 40."

Amy: 65.

Sheldon: Done.

Um if that isn't manipulation what is? He agreed that he caused most of the problems. In the Habitation, Sheldon went and defended Amy to Wil Wheaton even though, now don't hate this is my opinion, she caused the problems that led to Wil calling her a pain in the ass. She was wrong yet he went to defend her because she was mad and he didn't want that.

And he admitted himself in both Vacation Solution and Fish Guts that the RA was made for her to follow him blindly.....um manipulation on his part.

Amy has pointed out the flaws and I feel that they have worked through them. Should they have a new RA, I don't know. If it works for them and they work together to write it, I have no issues with it. It seems to me as if Sheldon needs that kind of order in his life, and no I am not saying it is Sheldon being Sheldon. IT seems to me as if all his friends follow some kind of contract, I mean three strikes and a course? Who agrees to that? 

Is this manipulation unhealthy for them? I don't think so because it seems to make them stronger. And she now seems to admit she has manipulated him in the past and most definitely in the next episode with the cabin. And he obviously doesn't get when he is being manipulated as pointed out by brilliantfool who stated that Penny takes him to the Lego store(instead of naked body) to get her way.....so they are all guilty of manipulating him because like sarcasm, he doesn't get it.

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  • Tensor locked this topic

Sigh.  Thread reopened.  Many moved posts.  Most have been moved to the Shipping Lanes thread.  Some to the discussion thread.  Some were hidden.   This is the Shamy thread.  For supportive discussion of Shamy.  

Some complaints are allowed, as long as the majority of the post is supportive.   Derogatory comments about the ship, or the members of the ship are not allowed.  MENTION of other characters is allowed, IN-DEPTH discussion of other characters is not.  Analysis of other couples is not allowed.  If you wish to discuss those things, take them to the discussion thread or the Shipping Lanes thread (copy and paste to those other threads.   

If you see the thread going off topic, report it.  There were two reports (and thank you to the reporter, you know who you are).  I did an arbitrary cut off of page 953.  If you answer anything prior to that page, please make sure it's in the appropriate thread (Discussion, Shipping Lanes, or here if it about supportive Shamy comments.  

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  • Tensor unlocked this topic
1 hour ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

This is usually the party thread but right now we're all like this:

tumblr_o4en3hrs2N1qh66wqo5_540.jpg

:rofl:

I'm really excited to see the next two episodes after the people who saw the edited versions at tapings and Paley reported back to say that Shamy seemed great in them both :party:

I'm not too concerned about this weeks TR (thank you @brilliantfool btw! x) will wait till the edited version is shown to the peeps at the next taping night till I put on my big analysis hat! (it's actually more of a helmet) Till then...

Anyone got any fun ideas to pass the hiatus? My mother is coming to visit for Easter and I really (REALLY) need an escape ;) 

Break out the blurays for season 4-6! I'll be busy going to my daughter's softball games

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