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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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No, I'm not reaching. Yes , when I use the term asshole it is a little bit subjective but not that much. We all know the definition, don't we. Signing the relationship agreement doesn't mean that Amy doesn't consider some of Sheldon's behavior not to be those of an asshole, she was just too desperate , or too much in love or didn't know how to say no. the reasons can be varied.

What you're talking about is the relationship agreement so I don't know what your soliloquy about all relationships have a form of agreement is supposed to mean. And Sheldon fair in enforcing the relationship or roommate agreement? Hahahahahahahaha, that is really the best TBBT related joke I've heard in a long time. Thanks for the laughter.

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No, I'm not reaching. Yes , when I use the term asshole it is a little bit subjective but not that much. We all know the definition, don't we. Signing the relationship agreement doesn't mean that Amy doesn't consider some of Sheldon's behavior not to be those of an asshole, she was just too desperate , or too much in love or didn't know how to say no. the reasons can be varied.

What you're talking about is the relationship agreement so I don't know what your soliloquy about all relationships have a form of agreement is supposed to mean. And Sheldon fair in enforcing the relationship or roommate agreement? Hahahahahahahaha, that is really the best TBBT related joke I've heard in a long time. Thanks for the laughter.

My reply:

Yes, it is a pretty subjective term. There is no exact definition or a way to label one's behavior like that. 

Yes, every relationship is precedeed by some sort of agreement, only it is not as specified or written down as Sheldon's.  You can't be in a relationship with another person without agreeing on some terms, for example are you in it for something serious or not, etc.

And no, Amy wasn't desperate. If she was, she would have agreed to be Sheldon's girlfriend right away, instead of asking him to put it romantically, she wouldn't have made him not get out of taking care of her in The Fish Guts Displacement, etc...

I only said thar he was fair regarding Relationship Agreement, I wasn't talking about the Roommate Agreement. If you think that he isn't being fair most of the time, please bring some examples. You really are reaching, both argument vise and humor vise. 

If that happens it will be completely un earned, and another sign of how the quality of the writing has declined.

I think that it would be pretty earned, especially for Lenny shippers, keeping in mind their attitude towards Shamy shippers this season. 

Will we end up having Lenny HQ? LOL.

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If that happens it will be completely un earned, and another sign of how the quality of the writing has declined.

I think every couple is different, and reaches milestones at their own pace. We don't know which couple will get married first because none of us are writers of the show, so I think we have to be prepared to deal with whatever the writers decide to throw at us.

I think that it would be pretty earned, especially for Lenny shippers, keeping in mind their attitude towards Shamy shippers this season. 

Will we end up having Lenny HQ? LOL.

I think the Lenny shippers need to take a step back and realise that Lenny have actually dominated Seasons 1-3. Everyone complaining that Season 8 had too much Shamy or that it was the "Sheldon Show", needs to remember that you guys literally had three whole seasons (and bits of other seasons) where your ship was the dominant couple of the show. Shamy was non-existent during these earlier seasons (1-3, minus 'Lunar Excitation') and so naturally, things tended to revolve around Lenny. 

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I think every couple is different, and reaches milestones at their own pace. We don't know which couple will get married first because none of us are writers of the show, so I think we have to be prepared to deal with whatever the writers decide to throw at us.

I think the Lenny shippers need to take a step back and realise that Lenny have actually dominated Seasons 1-3. Everyone complaining that Season 8 had too much Shamy or that it was the "Sheldon Show", needs to remember that you guys literally had three whole seasons (and bits of other seasons) where your ship was the dominant couple of the show. Shamy was non-existent during these earlier seasons (1-3, minus 'Lunar Excitation') and so naturally, things tended to revolve around Lenny. 

To be fair, there was no much Lenny (friendship or otherwise) in season four. But the complaining has gone too far IMO.

Edited by Mislav
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To be fair, there was no much Lenny (friendship or otherwise) in season four. But the complaining has gone too far IMO.

I agree but Seasons 1-3 were pretty Lenny-centric. I mean, come on! Shamy didn't even exist! Shamy shippers have had three seasons where their ship did not even exist, so I think Lenny shippers should be able to handle one or two seasons that are focused on another pairing. They say it's not the Sheldon Show, well it's also not the Leonard and Penny Show either.

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I agree but Seasons 1-3 were pretty Lenny-centric. I mean, come on! Shamy didn't even exist! Shamy shippers have had three seasons where their ship did not even exist, so I think Lenny shippers should be able to handle one or two seasons that are focused on another pairing. They say it's not the Sheldon Show, well it's also not the Leonard and Penny Show either.

I think that "should handle" statement may be not a good way of putting it, because they had been invested in that couple for seven years (if they started watching from the beginning), but there is no need to constantly criticize another main couple. 

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I think that "should handle" statement may be not a good way of putting it, because they had been invested in that couple for seven years (if they started watching from the beginning), but there is no need to constantly criticize another main couple. 

Ok yeah maybe not the best way of saying it. Sorry, sorry, sorry!!! :( What I mean is that it's okay for the show to focus a little more on other couples besides Lenny, and it's important for Lenny shippers to be a little more comfortable with that. Same goes for those that ship Shamy, Howardette, Rajily, etc...or literally any other couple on literally any other show.

And I am in no way criticising Lenny. I like Lenny and I think they're great. After Shamy, they're my next favourite pairing. What I'm criticising is the copious amounts of complaining we have had over the last season from those that ship Lenny, when their ship has in fact dominated a good number of seasons on the show.

Edited by The Mushroom Log

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I agree but Seasons 1-3 were pretty Lenny-centric. I mean, come on! Shamy didn't even exist! Shamy shippers have had three seasons where their ship did not even exist, so I think Lenny shippers should be able to handle one or two seasons that are focused on another pairing. They say it's not the Sheldon Show, well it's also not the Leonard and Penny Show either.

you can't compare something that didn't exist. Lenny was the only couple the first three seasons. you can only compare Lenny and Shamy when they were both couples. I'm not sure how you can be a Shamy shipper the first three seasons when they didn't exist.

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you can't compare something that didn't exist. Lenny was the only couple the first three seasons. you can only compare Lenny and Shamy when they were both couples. I'm not sure how you can be a Shamy shipper the first three seasons when they didn't exist.

Haha I realised this a little while ago and thought it was only a matter of time before somebody brought it up...and to be honest, I'm glad you did as it's an excellent point to consider.

I absolutely agree with you, Shamy did not exist in Seasons 1-3. What I mean to say is that you guys have had the first three seasons, so it's ok if the writers want to use later seasons to give a little more attention to one of the other couples. Just like the show shouldn't solely revolve around Shamy (or even just Sheldon) it also should't solely revolve around Lenny. That's all I'm saying. I hope nobody interprets this as me criticising Lenny because I'm really not! I really like Lenny and ship them almost as much as I ship Shamy :)

 

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Haha I realised this a little while ago and thought it was only a matter of time before somebody brought it up...and to be honest, I'm glad you did as it's an excellent point to consider.

I absolutely agree with you, Shamy did not exist in Seasons 1-3. What I mean to say is that you guys have had the first three seasons, so it's ok if the writers want to use later seasons to give a little more attention to one of the other couples. Just like the show shouldn't solely revolve around Shamy (or even just Sheldon) it also should't solely revolve around Lenny. That's all I'm saying. I hope nobody interprets this as me criticising Lenny because I'm really not! I really like Lenny and ship them almost as much as I ship Shamy :)

 

I didn't necessarily take it as a criticism but to me you can only compare Shamy and Lenny from mid season 5 on. thus you have Lenny fans not happy over season 8.

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I didn't necessarily take it as a criticism but to me you can only compare Shamy and Lenny from mid season 5 on. thus you have Lenny fans not happy over season 8.

Good point...I can understand why Lenny fans are upset over Season 8 and to be honest, I agree with them in that the writers were pretty slack with Lenny this season. 
 

BUT you guys had seasons 1-3. While Shamy weren't in the picture until 3x23 or really only season 4, you did still have three whole seasons where the writers were solely interested in your ship (yes Shamy did not exist but that's not the point). This isn't a comparison between Shamy and Lenny but more so an observation that there is now a second main pairing on the show (if we exclude Howardette because they don't have as significant a following) and so it is only logical that the writers will want to balance it out a bit and spend a little more time on Shamy as opposed to Lenny. The show can't only focus on Lenny, just like it can't only focus on Shamy.

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I guess my question would be if shamy gets back together and engaged in the first episode then the writers treat them the rest of the season like they did Lenny last season would you be happy Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

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I guess my question would be if shamy gets back together and engaged in the first episode then the writers treat them the rest of the season like they did Lenny last season would you be happy

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irrelevant because i'd probably be dead from the fact that they actually got engaged

But in all seriousness, I'd be a little peeved, definitely, but I'd be totally fine with it if it meant better writing for Lenny. I think that is only fair, after the contrasting ways the two pairings were treated by the writers in Season 8. I'm a Shamy shipper so naturally I loved their aspects of Season 8. However, I also ship Lenny and so I thought the Lenny aspects of Season 8 were generally abysmal.

I want the best for both of these pairings and it appears that the writers like to favour one to the detriment of the other. If this is actually, legitimately their modus operandi in writing the show (and not just my speculation on this forum) then I will be fine if they reverse the treatment of Shamy/Lenny in Season 9 as it would only be fair.

Edited by The Mushroom Log

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irrelevant because i'd probably be dead from the fact that they actually got engaged

But in all seriousness, I'd be a little peeved, definitely, but I'd be totally fine with it if it meant better writing for Lenny. I think that is only fair, after the contrasting ways the two pairings were treated by the writers in Season 8. I'm a Shamy shipper so naturally I loved their aspects of Season 8. However, I also ship Lenny and so I thought the Lenny aspects of Season 8 generally left a lot to be desired. 

I want the best for both of these pairing and it appears that the writers like to favour one to the detriment of the other. If this is actually, legitimately their intention (and not just my speculation on this forum) then I will be fine if they reverse the treatment of Shamy/Lenny in Season 9 as it would only be fair.

I upset because the writers seem to have forgotten Lenny I would like a more balance season that way we can all be happy and please more comedy and less drama Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk
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Good point...I can understand why Lenny fans are upset over Season 8 and to be honest, I agree with them in that the writers were pretty slack with Lenny this season. 
 

BUT you guys had seasons 1-3. While Shamy weren't in the picture until 3x23 or really only season 4, you did still have three whole seasons where the writers were solely interested in your ship (yes Shamy did not exist but that's not the point). This isn't a comparison between Shamy and Lenny but more so an observation that there is now a second main pairing on the show (if we exclude Howardette because they don't have as significant a following) and so it is only logical that the writers will want to balance it out a bit and spend a little more time on Shamy as opposed to Lenny. The show can't only focus on Lenny, just like it can't only focus on Shamy.

I'll call bullshit here.  Seasons 1-3?  You mean when Leonard was trying to go out with Leslie also?   Or when Leonard was dating Stephanie?  Or when Penny kept blowing off Leonard to go out with those muscular guys?  Very few scenes in season one and two were Lenny. I'd give you season three, but three of those last four episodes weren't a lot of fun. 

I've given an example of season six.  A major Lenny season where they had 16-18 shows with plots/major scenes, but Shamy had 12-14. Can you say balanced?  Season 8?  Except for one scene for Lenny, Shamy, alone by themselves, had TWICE the screen time of Lenny alone by themselves this year.  Hell , again except for that one scene, Sheldon and Penny had more screen time than Leonard and Penny.  Can you say not balanced? 

So what scene kept Shamy from having twice the screen time, and Sheldon and Penny from having more screen time.  Well it was that wonderful scene where Leonard tells Penny that he cheated on her. That scene was also thier longest of the season.

 As for why some think it's the Sheldon show?  Of the 6 two person groups I tracked, couple's  time( including Howard and Bernadette, and Howard and Raj) included Sheldon.  Sheldon and Leonard had the second most time. 

And before anyone says anything, this was done while I was ill and re-watching season 8.  I know I need a life, but my chronic condition sometimes doesn't allow me one. 

 

 

Edited by Tensor
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I'll call bullshit here.  Seasons 1-3?  You mean when Leonard was trying to go out with Leslie also?   Or when Leonard was dating Stephanie?  Or when Penny kept blowing off Leonard to go out with those muscular guys?  Very few scenes in season one and two were Lenny. I'd give you season three, but three of those last four episodes weren't a lot of fun. 

I've given an example of season six.  A major Lenny season where they had 16-18 shows with plots/major scenes, but Shamy had 12-14. Can you say balanced?  Season 8?  Except for one scene for Lenny, Shamy, alone by themselves, had TWICE the screen time of Lenny alone by themselves this year.  Hell , again except for that one scene, Sheldon and Penny had more screen time than Leonard and Penny.  Can you say not balanced? 

So what scene kept Shamy from having twice the screen time, and Sheldon and Penny from having more screen time.  Well it was that wonderful scene where Leonard tells Penny that he cheated on her. That scene was also thier longest of the season.

 As for why some think it's the Sheldon show?  Of the 6 two person groups I tracked, couple's  time( including Howard and Bernadette, and Howard and Raj) included Sheldon.  Sheldon and Leonard had the second most time. 

And before anyone says anything, this was done while I was ill and re-watching season 8.  I know I need a life, but my chronic condition sometimes doesn't allow me one. 

 

 

All of these are good points. 

Ok, so while they were both seeing other people at various points in Seasons 1-3, there was a very distinct Lenny undertone that kinda hinted at them having feelings for each other/eventually getting together. I think it's fair to say that while Shamy was in fact non-existent, Lenny was still the main pairing on the show during these early seasons (whether or not they were actually together). I still think Season 3 is a great example...yes, three of the last four episodes weren't great for Lenny but look at just about every other episode in the season! 

The fact is that there is now a second main pairing on the show, that being Shamy, which also demands attention from the writers. I think Season 8 treated Lenny abysmally, and their amount of screen time was completely disproportionate to Shamy. I think Season 8 was definitely Shamy-dominated, and from Comic Con it seems that Season 9 may be headed that way too. But at the end of the day, none of us here are writers on the show, so we just have to take what they do and make the best of it. If somebody doesn't like that, then nobody is stopping them from ditching the show...

Regarding your example of Season 6...while Shamy had nearly the same amount of episodes as Lenny, the nature of the Lenny scenes in the overall development of the relationship were leaps and bounds ahead of Shamy's. I know quite a lot of Shamy shippers (not sure about here but definitely on Tumblr) actually hate the way Shamy was written in Season 6. Aside from maybe one or two instances, IMO the quality of their relationship in Season 6 actually decreased a fair bit and became quite manipulative (on both sides) whereas Lenny's only seemed to get stronger.

But most importantly, and this is a general point that I only just realised a few minutes ago...you also forget the generally glacial pace of the Shamy relationship as opposed to that of Lenny's. I don't have a problem if the writers decide to put the brakes on Lenny for a bit while they speed up Shamy. 

But you know what, let's look on the bright side. Maybe the writers are treating Lenny so poorly because they have something truly brilliant planned in the future. Fingers crossed :)

Edited by The Mushroom Log
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I’m shaking my head right now.
TBBT is a comedy show, primarily intended to make us laugh. The way some of these discussions lead, I would almost think people are discussing the behavior of their best friends, rather than a group of fictional characters. Of course the characters don't always act perfectly nice to each other, but being able to get away with socially unacceptable actions is part of what makes their interactions entertaining.

But if:

`I think Season 8 was definitely Shamy-dominated, and from Comic Con it seems that Season 9 may be headed that way too.`

I’m definitely OUT!       :icon_rolleyes:

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My beef overall is why can't both (all ships) be written well and consistently?

I am still stuck on Leonard confessing to kissing another woman-intended or not intended remains unclear?  Penny's look on her face really hit in the gut for her and sorry since I see the show through the lens of my experiences...no matter the circumstances...this would be hard one to explain away.  The only one that would be ok with me is she kissed me and I pushed her away and then threw up.  The writers have tended toward drama in Lenny overall so I have little faith at this point that this is the scenario that will be revealed...if it's revealed at all.

I will give Shamy that Amy finally had it about intimacy with Sheldon.  But if the ring engagement, promise or otherwise, causes her to gush and just decide a break is not needed then this too proves pointless.  As far as commitment, they have their RA which she agreed to even if it favored Sheldon.  The intimacy part of their relationship is the part that needs to be dealt with and resolved in order for me to think this story made sense.  And I am not in a rush to see coitus.  What I'd like is to see a more balanced Shamy.  One where Amy gets the Sheldon thinking about her while kissing or at least talking about why he might be thinking about Flash during this time?  Two where Sheldon realizes that he is in committed relationship and when planning any major part of his life (i.e.: a trip to Mars) that -Gee, maybe he should talk this over with Amy?  However unlikely the possibility is of going to Mars?

I am trying to go into S9 with an open mind on it all but I still feel like the S8 finale came out of nowhere!  Amy has a little bit of room in that there is frustration with regards to intimacy because she talks about it and Sheldon picks on her about trying to get in his pants.  However, as a Shamy, I still see couple who is awkward in make outs probably due to their lack of experience.  I was always on the "Amy would freak if they really take the coitus step" bandwagon because until that kiss on the couch in S8...the 2 on screen kisses before that she was stiff as a board. The writers clearly didn't got that route. 

Then you have Lenny...where Leonard who proclaims in S1 that their babies will be smart and beautiful...FINALLY is with the love of his life and in one drunken moment on boat in the North Sea there was a kiss with another woman.  This is the same Leonard, who was showing vids on the boat of his hot beautiful Penny.  It rings false to me. 

Edited by Denise07
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I'll call bullshit here.  Seasons 1-3?  You mean when Leonard was trying to go out with Leslie also?   Or when Leonard was dating Stephanie?  Or when Penny kept blowing off Leonard to go out with those muscular guys?  Very few scenes in season one and two were Lenny. I'd give you season three, but three of those last four episodes weren't a lot of fun. 

I've given an example of season six.  A major Lenny season where they had 16-18 shows with plots/major scenes, but Shamy had 12-14. Can you say balanced?  Season 8?  Except for one scene for Lenny, Shamy, alone by themselves, had TWICE the screen time of Lenny alone by themselves this year.  Hell , again except for that one scene, Sheldon and Penny had more screen time than Leonard and Penny.  Can you say not balanced? 

So what scene kept Shamy from having twice the screen time, and Sheldon and Penny from having more screen time.  Well it was that wonderful scene where Leonard tells Penny that he cheated on her. That scene was also thier longest of the season.

 As for why some think it's the Sheldon show?  Of the 6 two person groups I tracked, couple's  time( including Howard and Bernadette, and Howard and Raj) included Sheldon.  Sheldon and Leonard had the second most time. 

And before anyone says anything, this was done while I was ill and re-watching season 8.  I know I need a life, but my chronic condition sometimes doesn't allow me one. 

 

 

Quality over quantity I'd say. 

At least Leonard and Peny did have a lots of good scenes during the first three seasons (and some bad scenes too) while there was no Shamy at all in those seasons. And no, I am not the kind of shipper who doesn't watch those seasons because there is no Shamy in them-I have been watching the show since season one, I just bought that up for comparisson sake. I think that the development between Leonard and Penny was evident even then, even though they were seeing other people. And yes, I think that the season six was better for Lenny than for Shamy. I also think that season eight had been lacking Lenny vise and I didn't like the finale Lenny vise either but most of the comments from Lenny shippers lately really does sound to me like an attempt to diminish Shamy in order to make themselves feel better about Lenny and many season nine predictions seem unreasonably pesimistic and, I'm sorry, bitter to me especially coming from people who had been shipping Leonard and Penny for years, even through the season four, even after the season four finale. I may be wrong, and I don't think that all Lenny shippers are doing it, but something seems off. 

Some may consider this show a Sheldon show because of an amount of screen time. I don't feel that way. Would the show be horrible without Sheldon? Of course, but it would be just as bad without Leonard, Penny, Howard... OK Bernadette and Emily are exceptions LOL. And to me, Sheldon show sounds like it implies that Sheldon is the main reason why people watch the show, which can not be proven. I don't think that the screen time is as relevant as some people believe. But that is just me.

 

All of these are good points. 

Ok, so while they were both seeing other people at various points in Seasons 1-3, there was a very distinct Lenny undertone that kinda hinted at them having feelings for each other/eventually getting together. I think it's fair to say that while Shamy was in fact non-existent, Lenny was still the main pairing on the show during these early seasons (whether or not they were actually together). I still think Season 3 is a great example...yes, three of the last four episodes weren't great for Lenny but look at just about every other episode in the season! 

The fact is that there is now a second main pairing on the show, that being Shamy, which also demands attention from the writers. I think Season 8 treated Lenny abysmally, and their amount of screen time was completely disproportionate to Shamy. I think Season 8 was definitely Shamy-dominated, and from Comic Con it seems that Season 9 may be headed that way too. But at the end of the day, none of us here are writers on the show, so we just have to take what they do and make the best of it. If somebody doesn't like that, then nobody is stopping them from ditching the show...

Regarding your example of Season 6...while Shamy had nearly the same amount of episodes as Lenny, the nature of the Lenny scenes in the overall development of the relationship were leaps and bounds ahead of Shamy's. I know quite a lot of Shamy shippers (not sure about here but definitely on Tumblr) actually hate the way Shamy was written in Season 6. Aside from maybe one or two instances, IMO the quality of their relationship in Season 6 actually decreased a fair bit and became quite manipulative (on both sides) whereas Lenny's only seemed to get stronger.

But most importantly, and this is a general point that I only just realised a few minutes ago...you also forget the generally glacial pace of the Shamy relationship as opposed to that of Lenny's. I don't have a problem if the writers decide to put the brakes on Lenny for a bit while they speed up Shamy. 

But you know what, let's look on the bright side. Maybe the writers are treating Lenny so poorly because they have something truly brilliant planned in the future. Fingers crossed :)

Agreed.

Edited by Mislav
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Why on earth will it be unearned? 

They have come a long way in 5 years and if the writers decide they will marry them, then that is what will happen

i think it would be because Amy shouldn't reconcile this soon.  Nor w/out Sheldon changing in some significant way.

I upset because the writers seem to have forgotten Lenny I would like a more balance season that way we can all be happy and please more comedy and less drama Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

When have the writers EVER promised balance?

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Quality over quantity I'd say. 

Some may consider this show a Sheldon show because of an amount of screen time. I don't feel that way. Would the show be horrible without Sheldon? Of course, but it would be just as bad without Leonard, Penny, Howard... OK Bernadette and Emily are exceptions LOL. And to me, Sheldon show sounds like it implies that Sheldon is the main reason why people watch the show, which can not be proven. I don't think that the screen time is as relevant as some people believe. But that is just me.

 

Your quality may not be my quality.  

The Sheldon show is a reference to how much time is spent on screen.  I happen to think screen time is relevant.   I wonder if you would change your mind if in season 9, the situations were reversed as far as screen time? Although I don't think that will happen.  

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