Jump to content

[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


Tensor
 Share

Recommended Posts

The writers have gotten lazy on far too many occasions, and treated the characters as caricatures.
They go for the EASY JOKE, to me it makes the characters too cartoonish in their flaws.

Exactly!!! The writing was just so slack in Season 8, it really felt as though they were just doing whatever was easiest. 

I loved the Shamy side of Season 8 but everything else? Not so much. I'm mainly watching earlier seasons during the hiatus (1-6) because they are the funniest and the most entertaining to watch. You just don't get that same kind of comedy in Season 8.

If they're really looking at a potential Season 11, then they seriously need to lift their game. The last thing I want is for the show to fizzle out as it reaches its end. To paraphrase Sheldon, I don't want the quality of this show to decrease to the point where we'll all be glad it's ended.

Edited by The Mushroom Log
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think S8 could've been much better.  I loved the Shamy progress but the rest of it....no.  Just no.  

It wasn't nearly as funny as the previous seasons.  I find I'd rather watch the older seasons (1-7) instead of S8 and if I do watch 8, I skip to the sweet Shamy moments and skip everything else.  But with the previous seasons, I don't skip nothing because I know within seconds, something's going to happen or be said that's going to cause me to laugh my ass off.

Penny used to be my least favorite character but now it's Bernadette.  They used to have her be mean all of a sudden and simingly out of no where once in a blue moon.  Now she's just a bitch all the time.  

Leonard and especially Sheldon seem stupider.  These guys are supposed to be geniuses and they have Leonard fighting a goat for carrots or whatever that joke was supposed to be.  I thought it was stupid, not funny.  I liked their friendship that they showed and it was sweet but it was also missing the humor.  I know they can write both.  They've done it before.  Did they get rid of the humorous writer?

And even though I'm not a huge Lenny shipper....what the fuck happened??  Lets start with the kissing....or rather the lack of.  Over at the Lollipop Guild Forum, they've got a thing going on with all their kissing scenes.  The actual kissing scenes in the first 7 seasons combined I think is over 50.  50!!!!  In 7 seasons.  And this season they got 2.  They had several scenes where a kiss would've fit perfectly but nooooo.  Can't have that for some fucked up reason.  It rang false....Big Time!

I always thought Raj & Howard scenes were the funniest in the whole series but in S8, I find I skip over them.  And that's if I even watch S8 (I've got all 24 recorded on my DVR).

There's the progress of all the relationships.  Raj is hardly existant but I kinda get that with Laura Spencer's schedule w/ Bones but now I'm thinking they hit a dud with that one.  Not very many people seem to like Emily.

I don't think anybody is a hard core Howardette but for the love of God, stop having her be such a controlling, manipulative bitch who has to be mean to everybody.  If THAT continues, I'm going to start rooting for a divorce with them!

Lenny.  They were simply put on the back burner and forgotten about the whole damn season (with very few exceptions).  And Penny still acts like she's doing Leonard a favor by being with him with the snide comments she's made.  We know why she's hesitant to plan a wedding but why the hell make Leonard feel that way?  Being married to her has been his goal for 8 years and now at the end of S8, we find out that he's feeling the same way as Penny regarding why they haven't set a date? Bull shit!!!  

Shamy.  Yeah, love the progress and the faster speed but like Amy said, it's STILL ridiculously slow.  To the point it's almost not believable.  He can't possibly be that stupid, clueless or whatever their excuse is.  Sorry, I'm just not buying it anymore.  

With Lenny & Shamy both, the writers say they like to let it flow but you can see how they are also forcing the feet dragging.  And for what?  To keep Leonard & Sheldon in 4A a little longer?  What man who's been engaged to someone for a year, still isn't living with them?  Yeah, I know Amy is as patient as a Saint and is as inexperienced as Sheldon but.....  It all just rings false!!

Shenny.  I detest the thought of a "romantic" pairing of these two.  It wouldn't make sense.  From what we know of their characters, it just wouldn't make sense.  I honestly don't think TPTB are going to go that route but for the record, God forbid, IF that is what they do, I'll simply check out and stop watching.

With that being said, I love their sibling like relationship in the previous seasons and they were comedy gold.  They really did remind me of my relationship with my younger brother.  And yes, sadly, we do still fight like siblings as adults.  But the Shenny scenes just aren't funny anymore.  That relationship also feels forced and rings false instead of flowing naturally.

Then there's the laughter.  I chuckled a few times.  Maybe laughed out loud once or twice but I don't think I ever laughed so hard that I had to grap my stomach, have tears run down my cheeks from laughing so hard or run to the bathroom to keep from peeing my pants (yeah, it sucks getting older and no longer having the control you once had of your bladder muscles).  Not in season 8.

I don't know what happened in the writers room but something did and whatever it is, I hope it gets fixed.  Because if Seasons 9 & 10 are like Season 8, I don't see how they can pull out a "possible" Season 11.

I agree with almost all you've said! I can't state that I hated Season 8, since I'm a Shamy, and I think for them it was the best season ever;  for all other respect, instead, there were some big issues...For the sake of an easy joke (or, worse, for "drama") the writers told us completely unbelievable things, such that noboby (Amy and Leonard included) didn't know when Sheldon's birthday was, or that Howard didn't know that his best friend Raj attended his temple, or that Leonard didn't know how much Penny's salary was...

Too many plots in a single episode...Sometimes it was like being in a video game, the scenes were so quick, you couldn't  understand what was going on...I don't know how to fix that, aside from more ensamble episodes, but this year we got really a  few of them and really the saddest ones (for obvious reasons...)

Then, for Lenny: the writers built  up their fights during the season on economic or work issues and then, when they created a problem in their wedding way (their choice, for the sake of drama, I don't agree with it but...whatever...) they didn't pull on those subjects, that were already there, but on something happened 2 years before and, moreover, something which put Leonard in the worst light  possible..

Really, I still like very much the show, still think that it is way better than most of the shows on tv right now,...my hope is that this was a "lost" season in which  the writers decided to not change anything and to do something really big and better in the two (or more) seasons to come...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've watched a few episodes of S8, and there's many moments that aren't funny at all for me and for the people who watched by my side...I mean, I keep thinking "did the audience really laugh of this?". Then I remember this forum, and I'm almost sure that's no laugh sign (someone who ever been in a taping tell me if I'm right or not). 
An exemple of wat I'm trying to say: all the podcast stuff with Wil Wheaton and Kevin I-forgot-his-nickname.

Why do you laugh, people? They force to do so or something else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the best word to describe season 8 is 'FORCED', the season was not very funny, it was more ackward than anything.  I agree with Tensor, there were several reasons why it wasn't funny, though I do obsess with Lenny, and I even think the whole acting community feels the same way, that is why there is no Emmy nomination.  They need to get a fresh prospective for season 9 or the show is going to head downhill fast.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that season six had almost a perfect writing when it would come to mixing serious topics with humor. 

I agree with Bernadette and Emily and that Lenny had been lacking this season (not so much as most of people seem to think though).

I don't agree about Shamy. And I think that it is kinda offensive to call somebody stupid because phobias or lack of social skills hold him back from engaging in something. If Leonard and Penny still haven't gotten married and Raj still haven't found the right one as far as we know (I hope that his relationship with Emily won't last) I don't think that waiting for coitus is not such a big deal. There are always the people who feel different of course and that is fine. Not to mention that writers seemed to have mostly dropped the whole Amy desperate for coitus meme since the middle of season seven. And why is Amy waiting to have sex so bad? Yes, using that as a comic effect was bad, but it was also frustrating for me between the ages of fourteen (when I REALLY started getting into puberty) till I was nineteen (and lost my virginity) but then I realized why it had been good to me to wait till I was nineteen. Sorry, but her views of sex didn't seem much more mature than the one of a teenage girl (up until this season probably). Coitus would have been meaningless if she had not come to understand Sheldon's POV and learn something about compromising in a relationship (and yes, he has learned much more because he was worse than her in that respect, and still has a lot to learn).

I also don't think that Sheldon or Leonard would come off as stupid this season. Annoying at times yes but not stupid. And although I agree that Lenny had been lacking this season I don't think that Leonard still living with Sheldon is that bad. Howard continued living at his mother's house (though with his wife) after getting married after all. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While true, what is going on here is trying to figure out the reason for the drop, something I didn't mention.  For the simple reason we haven't had to look at a decline.  Friends didn't drop.  Mary Tyler Moore didn't drop.  Dick Van Dyke and The Andy Griffith Show (as well as Friends) finished at #1.  So while the the drop may be typical, it isn't absolute, so if something drops, there has to be a reason.  So, we're back to why are people unhappy enough to quit watching?  And I'll stay with thinking its a combination of all of it. 

Maybe its time we pointed out the elephant in the room.  Penny's haircut.  Whether the typical viewers opinion on it is shallow or not, I think we'd be kidding ourselves if we thought it wasn't an issue for some fans/viewers.  

Personally I don't think it's a look on Penny (on Kaley it's fine) that accentuates the character like her long hair did.  Sometimes I feel like I'm watching Lieutenant Riker (from Star Trek TNG) without the beard.  IMO I also don't think the wardrobe played to that hair's strengths/weaknesses in terms of presentation.  It's possible to make it work, I just don't think it did most of the time.  Though unlike the worst of tv land, it's not going to get me to stop watching. 157 episodes have given me WAY MORE than enough development/reasons to like the character beyond what's on the outside; and if I'm being honest her hair started getting better for me from The Leftover Thermalization onward, as her hair started to regain some of it's buoyancy.

I'm not saying it's the only absolute factor, just that it's a reason you can throw in with the rest of the ones you mentioned (lack of Lenny, comedy not hitting the mark, etc.)

Edited by meka3000
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be so entertained if they wigged her up and suddenly magic happens and the show becomes engaging again. But I'm not confident that more hair would really help. Maybe more skin? Let's race to the bottom of their problems. It's a show based on boys meeting girls. They are all introduced now. What comes next isn't rocket science. 10 seasons is a long time to cycle through the same boys meeting the same girls. And they had to resort to tawdriness for a cliffhanger.  Seriously, Leonard forgetting Penny for a pico-second? Easier to believe Sheldon pulling a ring out of his fundament. *sigh*

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously, Leonard forgetting Penny for a pico-second? Easier to believe Sheldon pulling a ring out of his fundament. *sigh*

You mean like when Leonard told Penny he wouldn't laugh at her for believing in psychics but did it anyway?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean like when Leonard told Penny he wouldn't laugh at her for believing in psychics but did it anyway?

I'm not sure laughing at Penny's belief in psychics is the same as cheating on Penny with another woman.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure laughing at Penny's belief in psychics is the same as cheating on Penny with another woman.

It's not, just debunking this myth that Leonard is so blindly infatuated with Penny, that he'd never do anything to hurt her (intentional or not).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure laughing at Penny's belief in psychics is the same as cheating on Penny with another woman.

you are correct.

You mean like when Leonard told Penny he wouldn't laugh at her for believing in psychics but did it anyway?

you are wrong. They are entirely different things.  It's not about hurting Penny, it's about Leonard being in character. 

I am alluding to the necessity of the show to resort such a tawdry device to push the story along/pump life into a deteriorating premise. One thing was entirely consistent with the premise, one was markedly inconsistent with the premise. One was a good comedic hook with a delightful resolve, the other can only end with grudging forgiveness and be quickly swept into the oubliette. They did revisit the psychic gag, they won't likely make Penny momentarily forget she has Leonard.  Let's see Sheldon and Penny walk into a couples counselling session together to discuss their potential infidelities. 

I'm not going to argue, either. That's my closing statement on your point.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you are wrong. They are entirely different things.  It's not about hurting Penny, it's about Leonard being in character. 

You missed my point entirely.

Also I haven't heard any information given to us in the episodes that PROVES that Leonard's action (of him being a weak resistance to female attention to a VERY SPECIFIC degree) wasn't consistent with all the facets of his character from all 8 seasons leading up to that, and I stand by that point.

Edited by meka3000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You missed my point entirely.

Also I haven't heard any information given to us in the episodes that PROVES that Leonard's action (of him being a weak resistance to female attention to a VERY SPECIFIC degree) wasn't consistent with all the facets of his character from all 8 seasons leading up to that, and I stand by that point.

I think what goes against his character is to cheat on Penny specifically. you can't compare other females to Penny IMO.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what goes against his character is to cheat on Penny specifically. you can't compare other females to Penny IMO.

I believe that it goes against his character TO INTENTIONALLY GO OUT OF HIS WAY to cheat on Penny.  I DON'T believe it goes against his character to be caught off guard by a female kissing him and him being slow to register the ramifications of what he's doing because of 2 things:

1.) His drunken state

2.) His shock that another woman would initiate that with him, in THAT MOMENT.

If it's anything beyond THAT, then yes I would agree with that being against his character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that it goes against his character TO INTENTIONALLY GO OUT OF HIS WAY to cheat on Penny.  I DON'T believe it goes against his character to be caught off guard by a female kissing him and him being slow to register the ramifications of what he's doing because of 2 things:

1.) His drunken state

2.) His shock that another woman would initiate that with him, in THAT MOMENT.

If it's anything beyond THAT, then yes I would agree with that being against his character.

But that goes for any character on the show, including Sheldon.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must be quite obvious to some where it would be in character for Leonard to take the first chance he had to cheat on Penny.  But not obvious to me.   

Do you know for sure how many MISSISSIPPI'S the kiss lasted?  In this clip, Leonard later describes that 3 MISSISSIPPI kiss as "kissing".  How do you know the kiss didn't last that long before he stopped the "kissing"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While true, what is going on here is trying to figure out the reason for the drop, something I didn't mention.  For the simple reason we haven't had to look at a decline.  Friends didn't drop.  Mary Tyler Moore didn't drop.  Dick Van Dyke and The Andy Griffith Show (as well as Friends) finished at #1.  So while the the drop may be typical, it isn't absolute, so if something drops, there has to be a reason.  So, we're back to why are people unhappy enough to quit watching?  And I'll stay with thinking its a combination of all of it. 

Of your examples only Friends is recent. Certainly TV audiences have changed a lot since Mary Tyler Moore.

It is a strange irony that some of the very people that TBBT might appeal to the most are the ones who don't watch broadcast TV. My 20 year old son for example is too busy with on line gaming, Netflix and on line webcast stuff to bother at all with broadcast TV. He only watches it if he happens to be in the room when I am watching it.

Gosh, TBBT and news are the only broadcast stuff I watch at all regularly. And really The CBC National News is repeated so many times in the evening that I can watch it at the time of my choosing or on line if I want to see it off schedule. TBBT is the only show that I set aside a half hour a week to watch on a schedule and even then if I miss it I can watch it on VOD. It is normally available after about 24 hours but on occasion I have had to wait more than three days. In general I prefer Netflix and watch shows after they are canceled. That way we can watch three in a row when it is convenient (with either my wife or daughter or both).

I don't know it really matters how good TBBT were to get they might still have trouble with people not watching in season 9. They are just having less trouble finding an audience than other comedies. This could be because they can draw some of us nerds away from our computers.

Edited by djsurrey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that it goes against his character TO INTENTIONALLY GO OUT OF HIS WAY to cheat on Penny.  I DON'T believe it goes against his character to be caught off guard by a female kissing him and him being slow to register the ramifications of what he's doing because of 2 things:

1.) His drunken state

2.) His shock that another woman would initiate that with him, in THAT MOMENT.

If it's anything beyond THAT, then yes I would agree with that being against his character.

(exhalation)

there is nothing funny about that last scene in the car. There is no easy way for them to walk back from Leonard's indiscretion. They just have to use it and lose it. To escalate the drama by using this story twist smacks to me of desperation. To have raised the spectre of infidelity as a tool to get them more time to run out their remaining seasons seems blatantly constructed. It serves the story only as a thing to mark time. It is not a springboard for yucks, which is what the other comedic conflicts have been about. It's artificial and ... tawdry.

So, beyond the aspects of character, it is just a false lead. Maybe they couldn't think of anything better.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(exhalation)

there is nothing funny about that last scene in the car. 

The talk about the denny's with a wedding chappel was funny IMO.

 

There is no easy way for them to walk back from Leonard's indiscretion. They just have to use it and lose it.

Who said they were walking back?  How do you know this won't end up being Penny's version of Bernadette's conflict from season 5, where Bernadette had to come to grips with Howard's past and what he didn't tell her, and how it challenges the pedestal she put Howard on? 

To escalate the drama by using this story twist smacks to me of desperation.

Or maybe it's a roadblock/challenge for these characters to overcome.

 

It's artificial

That would suggest that it was beyond credibility for this to have happened.  I don't see it that way.

 

tawdry.

Then every sitcom that has used infidelity as a storytelling device is tawdry then.

Edited by meka3000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(exhalation)

there is nothing funny about that last scene in the car. There is no easy way for them to walk back from Leonard's indiscretion. They just have to use it and lose it. To escalate the drama by using this story twist smacks to me of desperation. To have raised the spectre of infidelity as a tool to get them more time to run out their remaining seasons seems blatantly constructed. It serves the story only as a thing to mark time. It is not a springboard for yucks, which is what the other comedic conflicts have been about. It's artificial and ... tawdry.

So, beyond the aspects of character, it is just a false lead. Maybe they couldn't think of anything better.

I got to agree with all that except I think is was not desperation but that they did it to run three somewhat parallel story lines (lenny, shammy and Raj/Emily) and get people wondering whats going to happen to hook them into s9e1. And no I never really like those kind of hooks (but seeing three similar but different parallel story lines was intriguing). The comedy was only in the B&H story. I guess there is really no hook in funny. I'm thinking I was not as bothered as many because 1. I'm just not a big shipper and 2. I don't see it likely there will be long term negative effects except possibly with raj/emily (and possibly with die hard Lenny fans -- Leonard cheating??? ).

Edited by djsurrey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Who said they were walking back?  How do you know this won't end up being Penny's version of Bernadette's conflict from season 5, where Bernadette had to come to grips with Howard's past and what he didn't tell her, and how it challenges the pedestal she put Howard on? 

 

Or maybe it's a roadblock/challenge for these characters to overcome.

How do you know it will be Penny's version of the conflict?  Hint, you don't.  So why can't Nograv believe that they can't walk it back?

How do you know it's a roadblock or challenge to overcome?  Hint, you don't.  So why is it so wrong to look at as an act of desperation if that is the way Nograv feels about it?

As for the rest, they have their opinion, you have yours.  Doesn't make either one of them right, or wrong.  

 

Of your examples only Friends is recent. Certainly TV audiences have changed a lot since Mary Tyler Moore.

It is a strange irony that some of the very people that TBBT might appeal to the most are the ones who don't watch broadcast TV. My 20 year old son for example is too busy with on line gaming, Netflix and on line webcast stuff to bother at all with broadcast TV. He only watches it if he happens to be in the room when I am watching it.

Gosh, TBBT and news are the only broadcast stuff I watch at all regularly. And really The CBC National News is repeated so many times in the evening that I can watch it at the time of my choosing or on line if I want to see it off schedule. TBBT is the only show that I set aside a half hour a week to watch on a schedule and even then if I miss it I can watch it on VOD. It is normally available after about 24 hours but on occasion I have had to wait more than three days. In general I prefer Netflix and watch shows after they are canceled. That way we can watch three in a row when it is convenient (with either my wife or daughter or both).

I don't know it really matters how good TBBT were to get they might still have trouble with people not watching in season 9. They are just having less trouble finding an audience than other comedies. This could be because they can draw some of us nerds away from our computers.

Whether or not it's recent is rather irrelevant.  Other shows during each of those times dropped, but those shows I used as examples, didn't drop.  The only thing we have now is a relative drop of overall TV viewing, which has to be taken into account when trying to determine whether or not a show is declining.   In the case of TBBT, last year, it dropped much less than the overall decline (4% compared to 12% for the general decline) , indicating that it was still picking up viewers to make up for those who were leaving in the general decline.  This year, it was losing viewers over and above the general decline (15% compared to 11% for the general decline).   There has to be a reason for the show to be losing viewers this year.  The problem is trying to determine the reason for the more than average decline.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as the kiss goes we still know too little to make a determination. I hope they clarify the situation fully to know where we stand. if they don't it will be another demonstration of how lazy they've become in their writing.It's as if they don't even respect the characters that took them so long to craft. To me it feels as if they are going through the motions. Hope it improves on S9, otherwise it will be like Heroes (I think it was) when Sheldon mentions that the quality of the show grew progressively worse so it was a relief when it ended.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Tensor locked and unlocked this topic
  • Tensor locked and unlocked this topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.