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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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IMO that's one of the only times a dream sequence is acceptable. 

I really hope they don't use a dream sequence to resolve either of the cliffhangers from the finale. There is so much potential as to how they can unfold in Season 9, a dream sequence would kinda be throwing everything under the rug.

I would be for a dream sequence in the season opener in the case of Lenny, because I see no other way to resolve the moronic place they left them at. In Shamy's case not so much because whether you agree with it or not, or actually like it or not, the situation is a little bit more reasonable, and if they work through their differences they can emerge a stronger couple for having lived through it. In Lenny's case, what can I say, I think it's a freaking mess what they've done.

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And after all the talking and thinking and anger and sadness the same question remains: How does Lenny recover from this freaking mess?

:icon_rolleyes:

Love conquers all if it is true love. Love will find a way. :) Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
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Absolutely! There was nothing good about that cliffhanger. The entire thing reeks of lazy writing.

I could not go that far. I gave it an excellent rating like many others despite Leonard's confession. I thought running three parallel stories was clever but also saw the Sheldon Amy story as the lead. The other two stories were contrived as parallel stories in my opinion.

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I could not go that far. I gave it an excellent rating like many others despite Leonard's confession. I thought running three parallel stories was clever but also saw the Sheldon Amy story as the lead. The other two stories were contrived as parallel stories in my opinion.

it was an awful episode. The three stories were all contrived though the Raj/Emily storyline made sense. The other two were totally OOC. Amy breaking up with Sheldon. That should of been an early Season 8 story. Sheldon with a ring.LOL. Lenny taking relationship advice (getting married) from Sheldon and Leonard cheating on Penny. Sheldon is the same guy who signed up alone to go to the moon. Maybe as some have alluded earlier that the episode was all a dream. it seems the writers are like a golfer who hit a bad shot. They both wish they could have a mulligan. maybe 9.1 will be the writers mulligan.

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I could not go that far. I gave it an excellent rating like many others despite Leonard's confession. I thought running three parallel stories was clever but also saw the Sheldon Amy story as the lead. The other two stories were contrived as parallel stories in my opinion.

So, if of the three parallel stories, you thought 2 were contrived (in your opinion) how did you rate the episode as excellent? Aren't you contradicting yourself? As I've said before, for me the episode was very bad, it WAS lazy writing, it WAS artificial drama, and it WAS (mainly) OOC for Lenny and Shamy. It is my new Speckerman, meaning that together with that episode and Itchy brain these re the three worst TBBT episodes (IMO)

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So, if of the three parallel stories, you thought 2 were contrived (in your opinion) how did you rate the episode as excellent? Aren't you contradicting yourself? As I've said before, for me the episode was very bad, it WAS lazy writing, it WAS artificial drama, and it WAS (mainly) OOC for Lenny and Shamy. It is my new Speckerman, meaning that together with that episode and Itchy brain these re the three worst TBBT episodes (IMO)

I don't remember seeing anything OOC.

No I don't think I contradicted myself. I said I thought running parallel story lines was clever. So what if some elements were somewhat contrived? This is a sitcom so that is sort of expected. It reminded me of the ending of ESB where several story lines ended in despair (including Han frozen in carbonate, Luke's hand cut off, C3PO dismantled). A lot of fantasy fairy tales have the protagonists seemingly loosing shortly before the climax (Princess Bride where the man in black is mostly dead, the Spaniard stabbed, the princess about to commit suicide... ) so it feels right for TBBT to do something like that in a cliffhanger.

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I don't remember seeing anything OOC.

No I don't think I contradicted myself. I said I thought running parallel story lines was clever. So what if some elements were somewhat contrived? This is a sitcom so that is sort of expected. It reminded me of the ending of ESB where several story lines ended in despair (including Han frozen in carbonate, Luke's hand cut off, C3PO dismantled). A lot of fantasy fairy tales have the protagonists seemingly loosing shortly before the climax (Princess Bride where the man in black is mostly dead, the Spaniard stabbed, the princess about to commit suicide... ) so it feels right for TBBT to do something like that in a cliffhanger.

all good examples. The difference that makes this tragic is that Leonard was the perp. No evil villian - all his own work. :)

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all good examples. The difference that makes this tragic is that Leonard was the perp. No evil villian - all his own work. :)

It really all depends on Penny's reaction. If Penny does not think it is that big a deal then the problem will melts away.

Oh, and Leonard learns to avoid parties with girls if/when he and Penny are apart.

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Must be a new definition: contrived=excellent . Hhhhhhmmm interesting. One learns new things every day.

The main characters in this sit com have lived in a building with a broken elevator for eight years. It was put out of service due to an explosion. The explosion was due to an experimental error that Leonard made with rocket fuel but Leonard is a physicist not a chemist. The entire premise is contrived so why should contrived sub-plots bother anyone?

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Amy breaking up with Sheldon. That should of been an early Season 8 story. Sheldon with a ring.LOL. Lenny taking relationship advice (getting married) from Sheldon and Leonard cheating on Penny. Sheldon is the same guy who signed up alone to go to the moon. Maybe as some have alluded earlier that the episode was all a dream. it seems the writers are like a golfer who hit a bad shot. They both wish they could have a mulligan. maybe 9.1 will be the writers mulligan.

First of all, there was no break up, but that has been explained many times already.

Sheldon with a ring is not OOC to me. Sheldon has been raised by a mother who taught him in a Christian way, and therefor marriage might be a logical step FOR SHELDON. I (any many other I believe) disagree with that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make since in the mind of Sheldon.

And Leonard never could resist a woman who shown interest in him. Look at what happened between him and Alice, during which he was still in a relationship with Prya (a long distance one, but still).
He actually went to Penny and ask her to find a way so he could sleep with both women and everyone be okay with it.

And you know what they say, once a cheater...

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It wouldn't surprise me at all if they used a mulligan for 9x1. Not one bit. As Cereal Apist pointed out, they've done it in 5x1 and 8x1 so what's stopping them from doing it in 9x1 as well? 

I don't necessarily want that to happen, I want to see how the writers progress from the cliffhangers without having to resort to a mulligan. It's a pretty sticky situation they've gotten into (particularly for Lenny) so I'm interested to see how they work out of it.

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It really all depends on Penny's reaction. If Penny does not think it is that big a deal then the problem will melts away.

Oh, and Leonard learns to avoid parties with girls if/when he and Penny are apart.

well, if she forgives, which I expect, she will never forget.

 

 

 With that and the reconstituted diamond ring, he should hope that his eventual IPO for whatever sciency thing he can monetise goes really well. Penny will deserve reparations. LOL. Not that he can buy his way out of this. But a Malibu beach house and Maserati wouldn't hurt. Hehehe.

 

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Look, IMHO, of the four plots of 8.24, the only two that will be actual running themes in Season 9 are the Howardette/Stuart and the  Raj/Emily situations, they are funny stories and can provide lots of comical material throughout the season...As far as the two major cliffhanger are involved, for me both of them will be forgotten in a few episodes at most; more specifically, I think the Lenny's one will be fixed once and for all in the premiere...It was a bad choice, I'm sure the writers have realized that,most of  Lenny's shippers are mad about it and it has got very few attention in the media, up to now (ones in a while I google TBBT and most of speculations and articles on line aren't about them...), so I guess that Penny will forgive/forget everything and maybe as a big gesture Leonard will propose her a big and wanderful wedding (the 200th episode??), instead of that swallow thing in Vegas...The Shamy cliffhanger will be also solved in few episodes at most. Maybe the writers  will keep us on our toes about the ring, but Shamy will be ok pretty soon....I'm not sure that this works as a mulligan...as a matter of fact, I'm not sure of understanding what a mulligan is!

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I would be for a dream sequence in the season opener in the case of Lenny, because I see no other way to resolve the moronic place they left them at. In Shamy's case not so much because whether you agree with it or not, or actually like it or not, the situation is a little bit more reasonable, and if they work through their differences they can emerge a stronger couple for having lived through it. In Lenny's case, what can I say, I think it's a freaking mess what they've done.

So (wriggles in seat), as much as I think the Leonard confession was an arse-pull on the part of the writers, it is.... not exactly out of character for Leonard to be flattered and gratified, even to an inappropriate degree, if a girl shows romantic interest in him. Others have pointed out instances where he was looking for a way to make it okay to cheat. Obviously, you'd hope that with time and a long-term relationship with his dream girl, he'd behave differently, but the guy has form.

And part of the reason that I hope it's not a dream sequence, is that

a ) It is interesting to me that with all the emphasis placed on Penny being the hot one, and the commitment-averse one, it was Leonard who cheated (Tensor is right, Leonard's phrase isn't 'She kissed me!' but the more damning 'There was kissing') and Leonard who sabotaged the wedding (surely!) by confessing at the moment he did. The writers had a chance to make Penny the 'villain' and they didn't go that route.

 

b ) I really, really hope that this incident will bury the tiresome 'Oh, Leonard is a loser at love. He can't get girls. Let the poor guy make hay while he can!' bullshit firmly to rest. In-show, as long as I can remember, Leonard has gotten plenty of action. This mythology he has of himself being some sort of romantic Eeyore (and therefore kinda-sorta excusing himself when he can't say 'No' to women showing interest in him, even when he's in a relationship) is getting tiresome. I'm sorry high school was traumatic for you, Leonard, but you are a highly educated, successful professional, in a loving, committed relationship- until you screwed it up. I hope Penny gives you hell for it. I hope you realise your own patterns and how destructive they are for you. I hope that you can move out of the position of supplicant to Penny, and I hope we never ever see the degrading 'I don't approve of your behaviour, but if I say so I'll never get a girl as hot as you' syndrome that Leonard still sometimes displays.

 

c ) I think that Leonard confessed when he did to sabotage the wedding. I think Leonard and Penny love each other, but also sometimes worry about the fact that on paper they don't have a lot in common. Now, I firmly believe they're the endgame and will work it out. But I would give the show such kudos if Leonard said to Penny 'I was worried about the wedding too', and let Penny and Leonard work it out together.

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@wowbagger. If Leonard did sabotage it then he was something of a weasel. That's a big change. He was an ogre slayer before. Maybe they can spin this cleverly so he looks graceful. But I do agree about his ability to say yes to offers. That doesn't bother me so much, he's stupid. and damaged, with regard to affection. He even takes love, such as it is, from Sheldon. it's more this weasel-ish bailout that ticks me off. Poor Penny. I wonder if there is a big redemptive - and interesting - arc coming. I hope it's interesting, because they spent a lot of capital. They'd better not cheapskate on the eventual/inevitable resolution.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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It's really ironic that most shamy fans consider Leonard a cheat and hasn't changed and using past experiences as evidence. Isn't this show about the characters growth an changing. The leonard that wanted to cheat on Priya is not the same Leonard now. That's why this so hard for Lenny fans to believe. Not once since Lenny got back together has there been any hint of Leonard cheating or looking to. He said himself when he found out that Alex liked him. His words. I'm not going to do anything about it. I love penny. Yes it felt good that someone else is sniffing the goods. It's always flattering as long as you don't take it further, just like Amy & Bernadette when they went to that conference together and those guys bought them drinks. They were so excited and even talked about which guy they liked. Does this mean they have the potentials to cheat? No. It was lazy writing from the writers and I just can't believe that Leonard would do that to Penny. I would have bought it if we had clues. And if ppls are still comparing the old Leonard to later season Leonard then what is the point of the character's changing because none of them have. Sheldon is still a jerk sometimes. Does that mean he also hasn't changed. Sorry. Rant over. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

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I don't know really.I would say Leonard's need for affection and approval from others as personality feature is still there very much,as we could see just episode before that, with his mother. I don't think that changed. But I also can't wrap my head around him cheating specifically on Penny, there really wasn't a hint for that. Surprise and anger are more than justified.  I guess both "camps" have it's valid points. Wowbagger's and Tonstar's especially, I'm a little torn with which side I tend to agree more.

I think sometimes our problem is we tend to idealize Leonard, but the truth still is, as much as he's not a bad guy, he's not saint either. Whatever it was OOC, believable or not, mistake can be made, even while instead of mistake, I guess we could say he screwed up A LOT this time. And now, when this plot happened, and there's nothing we can do about it, at least we can hope it's there for a reason. Maybe it helps them correct their, sometimes a little crocked view of their roles in their relationship, talk their insecurities, and hopefully it will make them even stronger in the end. 

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It's really ironic that most shamy fans consider Leonard a cheat and hasn't changed and using past experiences as evidence. Isn't this show about the characters growth an changing. The leonard that wanted to cheat on Priya is not the same Leonard now. That's why this so hard for Lenny fans to believe. Not once since Lenny got back together has there been any hint of Leonard cheating or looking to. He said himself when he found out that Alex liked him. His words. I'm not going to do anything about it. I love penny. Yes it felt good that someone else is sniffing the goods. It's always flattering as long as you don't take it further, just like Amy & Bernadette when they went to that conference together and those guys bought them drinks. They were so excited and even talked about which guy they liked. Does this mean they have the potentials to cheat? No. It was lazy writing from the writers and I just can't believe that Leonard would do that to Penny. I would have bought it if we had clues. And if ppls are still comparing the old Leonard to later season Leonard then what is the point of the character's changing because none of them have. Sheldon is still a jerk sometimes. Does that mean he also hasn't changed. Sorry. Rant over. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I have a lot of sympathy with this, honestly I do. BUT I guess my point and that of some of the others was that it's not wildly out of character for Leonard to be carried away by a woman expressing romantic and/or sexual interest in him- and, yes, that may include some inappropriate contact. And if the show acknowledges that tendency and puts it to bed, that's growth for Leonard and some interesting work to do for Galecki.

@wowbagger. If Leonard did sabotage it then he was something of a weasel. That's a big change. He was an ogre slayer before. Maybe they can spin this cleverly so he looks graceful. But I do agree about his ability to say yes to offers. That doesn't bother me so much, he's stupid. and damaged, with regard to affection. He even takes love, such as it is, from Sheldon. it's more this weasel-ish bailout that ticks me off. Poor Penny. I wonder if there is a big redemptive - and interesting - arc coming. I hope it's interesting, because they spent a lot of capital. They'd better not cheapskate on the eventual/inevitable resolution.

Amen. It would annoy me so much if they handwave the resolution. There are difficult, but interesting, stories to tell with Leonard and Penny now. Once the show's swerved into dramatic territory, it would irritate me if they scamper out of it with nothing to show.

Edited by wowbagger
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@wowbagger and tallin. Interesting points you guys made. It's just hard to swallow that Leonard would do something like that to Penny. I just can't see Leonard coming out of this in a good way but if it helps the character's growth in a good way then I might buy it. :) Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

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Amen. It would annoy me so much if they handwave the resolution. There are difficult, but interesting, stories to tell with Leonard and Penny now. Once the show's swerved into dramatic territory, it would irritate me if they scamper out of it with nothing to show.

On the other hand, if writers could make such a mess in one scene, they can fix it in one scene as well (they can do whatever they want to). But I share your concerns, it's too serious case to sweep it under a rug.

Edited by Norman
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