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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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 What you read as facts on your end, I read as assumptions on my end. 

the following statements by Leonard are not assumptions:

"... there was a lot of drinking and craziness going on."  

 "It was just kissing."  

"And then nothing.  I stopped it."  

"You know, so we can go into this with no secrets.  ...and, like I said, we're about to get married and I, I want a clean slate."  

"And it wasn't even very good.  She was a smoker, I'd just been seasick."

The following is 

And he told Priya within days of his cheating on her.  It took him almost two years to tell Penny he cheated.

If you want to say these are not the facts, by all means, show us some comments from the show that refutes these.  Scenarios and assumptions don't count. 

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I assume that is a blooper.  They look like they are having fun together.  

It's their reaction when Kaley forgot her line "I'm starting to think Swiss is key here."  After Johnny repeated Swiss several times in his lines, in "The Large Hadron Collision".  

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He didn't directly state it but it was IMPLIED AND Penny picked up on the implication that he was drinking, whether you think it qualifies as him stating he was drinking is up to you.  I think that just because he doesn't DIRECTLY STATE IT meaning that he didn't say it, IS AN ASSUMPTION ON YOUR PART.  Your not going to change my mind on that.

Lets think about the characters for a second, if he had just been seasick do you see Leonard as the type to want to initiate physical interaction with anyone?

So if he doesn't share the trivialities of this secret like what was in his pocket, it counts as a secret?  As long as he shares the important stuff and HE FEELS it qualifies, I don't see it as him thinking he's keeping secrets from his p.o.v.

 

By your standards he didn't state it, OBVIOUSLY what qualifies as him stating it differs for both of us.

 

Already talked about this one, while these are both scenarios dealing with infidelity the girlfriends involved and the quality of the relationships ABSOLUTELY change how Leonard would deal with the situations.  That's what I'm sticking with.

 

And you haven't?  Your entire belief that he wasn't drinking RESTS ON THE ASSUMPTION that you believe him saying "drinking and craziness" never meant that he stated he was drinking (even though we saw him drinking in a crazy situation in the season 7 premiere).  Hell while were at it, why do you assume Leonard is telling the truth about being seasick?  For the record I think he is, but that is NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE FACT that it is an assumption on both of our ends.

 

Tensor, old friend, why do you waste your time with Mekka? Don't you see that he's incapable of  admitting he's wrong even when truth is staring him in the face? Your examples couldn't be more specific and concrete, and yet he'll twist them to try to make an impossible point. I've discovered it's useless to argue with him, and yesterday, when I mentioned I didn't have to prove anything to him he questioned me as to why did I even answer to his posts then,. You know what? He's right. There really is NO point. Just my two cents...

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There are a lot of similarities between the Sheldon to Amy 'I love You' and the Penny and Leonard 'I Love You'.  Both had angst in the beginning, Amy trying to comfort an upset Sheldon and Penny confronting Leonard on his actions.  The 'I Love You's' seeming to come out of left field but us, the audience, knowing they were true.  Then there was also Amy and Leonard, both stunned by their SO's confession, Leonard crying and Amy's panic attack.  Yes, there was some differences, Penny blurting hers out while upset and Sheldon logically explaining it to Amy, but that was true to their characters and the way they interacted.  So, like I said, I consider them both similar and both a revelation.

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Tensor, old friend, why do you waste your time with Mekka? Don't you see that he's incapable of  admitting he's wrong even when truth is staring him in the face? Your examples couldn't be more specific and concrete, and yet he'll twist them to try to make an impossible point. I've discovered it's useless to argue with him, and yesterday, when I mentioned I didn't have to prove anything to him he questioned me as to why did I even answer to his posts then,. You know what? He's right. There really is NO point. Just my two cents...

why do you care if he "wastes his time" on my posts?

What you see as the truth, i see as assmptions on his part. Simple as that.

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-the following statements by Leonard are not assumptions

-assumptions don't count.

Actually they are, in order for them to not be assumptions you'd have to have proof that Leonard is telling the truth about what happened in his statements.  But there is none.  It would be correct and NOT an assumption to say "Its not an assumption that Leonard MADE the following statements." Because it can be proven that he made those statements.

Then by that token your claims about Leonard's statements don't count, because your assuming Leonard is telling the truth in those statements.

 

Edited by meka3000

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Actually they are,

snip...

truth in those statements.

 

You're funny.   Here, I'll make it easy for you, I said

the following statements by Leonard are not assumptions:

The truth of those statements are an assumption.  The statements themselves, as I said, are not.  

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The truth of those statements are an assumption.  The statements themselves, as I said, are not.  

Except you didn't specify until now why they were not assumptions based on the way you phrased your sentence.

Even then your still making an assumption that "drinking and craziness" and the way he phrased that means Leonard didn't  state he was drinking.  That you think that he didn't state it there, IS AN ASSUMPTION on your end.

Edited by meka3000

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Except you didn't specify until now why they were not assumptions based on the way you phrased your sentence.

 

The quote, to which you replied was:

the following statements by Leonard are not assumptions

Can you explain what isn't specific?  

Even then your still making an assumption that "drinking and craziness" does not mean Leonard didn't state he was drinking.  That you think that he didn't state it there, IS AN ASSUMPTION on your end.

I agree, it doesn't mean that Leonard  was drinking, somewhere, sometime.  I simply ask you where, in the show, does Leonard state he was drinking during the kiss?  If you can't provide that, it's a simple fact that we've never heard him state that he was drinking during the kiss.

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I agree, it doesn't mean that Leonard  was drinking, somewhere, sometime.  I simply ask you where, in the show, does Leonard state he was drinking during the kiss?

I never said he specified pedantically when he was drinking.  Just that I believe he stated that drinking factored in to this situation for him. And how it and the situation affected him.

 

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I never said he specified pedantically when he was drinking.  Just that I believe he stated that drinking factored in to this situation for him. And how it and the situation affected him.

 

So you're making an assumption that somewhere, sometime, he said either he had been drinking or he was drunk during the kiss (meaning alcohol factored into the kiss).  Isn't that what I said?

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We know that, at some point in the voyage, he was drinking, because we saw him.

We can reasonably surmise he drank far more than one drink, because he stated they were playing the "Iceberg Game".

Edited by Stephen Hawking

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Why are people surprised at this Leonard revelation. In S7 when they were cutting to the boat, he was drinking having a great time. He deserved it after dealing with Penny, Sheldon, and Beverly for years. I always thought he is having fun, well he have too much fun? Then when he surprised Penny by arriving early. And she's like oh you came home early just for me. And Leonard was like "Yeah sure.". Now at the time was like just a passing comment. But now I Think about it that statement by Leonard meant more. Let's not act like Leonard is a cheater. Their is no clear cut example you can use as an argument to justify that statement. Every time Leonard has been in that position, it has been purley circumstancial. When he made out with Alice, he actually tried to get permission from Penny lol, he knew it was wrong. He stopped, and what Priya was banging her ex the whole time. Come on they were over by then. Leonard has never gone out of his way to intentionally hurt someone. Nor has he ever cheated on Penny, and I still don't consider what happened cheating, just dishonesty. Leonard was prob drinking when it happened too. He selectively choose to not tell Penny, his mistake. He is clueless when it comes to these things. I remember when Penny told him she loves him for the first time. Alex texted him and he was like "Oh what a lovely girl". I mean here is a guy who has been with this girl for  five years, but he still can't beleive she agreed to marry him. He clearly still has a lack of self worth, probably because of his mother. He still has this mindset that he is a lonely nerd. That's the problem. Regardless if drinking influenced the kissing, so what that is not really the point now is it. 

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Since when were those two things mutually exclusive? 

Well if were being technical. I guess I don't consider not initiating cheating. Leonard backed off. Lieing is being dishonest, but its not cheating. Leonard diddn't set out to go on that boat trip, with the intention of cheating. IT was purley circumstancial, if it was now it would never happen. 

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Nor has he ever cheated on Penny, and I still don't consider what happened cheating 

Priya certainly considered it cheating.

From The Good Guy Fluctuation:-

Priya: Leonard, relax. It’s okay.

Leonard: It is?

Priya: Yeah, these things happen. They happen to everybody.

Leonard: Oh, my God, you are amazing. I mean, I don’t deserve you. Wh, what do, what do you mean everybody?

Priya: Leonard, I didn’t know if I should tell you, but I kind of cheated on you, too.

Mind you, if it were me, I'm pretty sure I'd have finished with Priya (not that I'd have dated her in the first place), to be with Alice.

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Priya certainly considered it cheating.

From The Good Guy Fluctuation:-

Priya: Leonard, relax. It’s okay.

Leonard: It is?

Priya: Yeah, these things happen. They happen to everybody.

Leonard: Oh, my God, you are amazing. I mean, I don’t deserve you. Wh, what do, what do you mean everybody?

Priya: Leonard, I didn’t know if I should tell you, but I kind of cheated on you, too.

Mind you, if it were me, I'm pretty sure I'd have finished with Priya (not that I'd have dated her in the first place), to be with Alice.

My point is what is exactly cheating? Kissing, sleeping with someone e.t.c. It is a gray area at best. Leonard stopped making out with Alice. And Priya slept with her ex. So comparitively Leonard's one wasen't so bad. And with Penny it was off screen, and it was two years ago, and it was a disgusting kiss. So I am just saying their is no argument to say that Leonard is a cheater either way. 

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So comparatively Leonard's one wasn't so bad.

It may not be so bad, but that doesn't mean it isn't cheating.

That'd be like arguing that the cheating wasn't so bad because it was only oral sex, or that it wasn't so bad because you wore a condom.

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