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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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Based on that same logic, Priya should of had the decency to end their relationship before she left to India, knowing damn well the relationship was over.

I'm not sure she knew the relationship was over, when she left for India, but I completely agree that she should've ended it with Leonard, before sleeping with her ex, just es Leonard should've ended it with Priya, before making out with Alice.

And re lying to Penny that was funny, besides he was lying to support her when you think about it. He hid his true feelings because he loves her. 

I don't see the reason being relevant. Lying is lying, irrespective of the reason.

Just for giggles, I'd say Sheldon has done more harm to more people than Leonard.....

.....Sheldon has caused harm to many, some randomly' for 8 years.

The difference being, in most cases, Sheldon does realize he's doing it

To quote Bernadette:-

It’s not the same thing. Sheldon doesn’t know when he’s being mean, because the part of his brain that should know, is getting a wedgie from the rest of his brain.

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Lenny got screwed, not just with the wedding, but with the events leading up to and the aftermath. I don't think that it is a terrible idea in theory for Leonard to have slipped, feel terrible about i

I know this might be a ca-ray-zeee idea but can we like not have a Shenny panic attack every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene together or Jim dares to say that he likes -gasp!- working with Kaley!?

Sheldon does depend too much on Lenny as parental figures, but the ironic thing is that I think Lenny also depend a great deal on Sheldon. They kind of use him to not have to deal with issues in their

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Just my opinion, I don't think that Sheldon is completely incapable of knowing when he is being mean, or that that completely justifies his actions, and I think that all the guys have same problems regarding social interactions as Sheldon, but to a lesser degree. But I think that "causing harm" is an overstatement, since that statement usually implies something very serious. Most of the time he is just annoying.

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Sheldon knows what he is doing, more then he lets on. Lets just say that lol. But Leonard or Sheldon have never gone out of their way to intentionally gone out of their way to hurt ppl. Sheldon is oblivious, and Leonards clueless. 

Edited by 3ku11

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I don't think that Sheldon is completely incapable of knowing when he is being mean

I agree, hence why I qualified it with "in most cases".

I think he clearly knew he was being mean, in Itchy Brain.

Edited by Stephen Hawking

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I think biggest "going out of the way" was there because Leonard sometimes couldn't "keep in his pants" and Sheldon likes to put his own interests above everybody elses. But I would hardly call any of their actions a harm. Mostly it's really unintentional.  And  both (and other's, let's not forget not a one person in gang is saint), are able to apologize and make it up for others. Plus I'm not turning to BBT  to watch nice family sitcom where every little mistake is regretted and there's big moral lesson in the end, so, I don't really care if people are doing mistakes here and there.  I will not run statistic and hold it against them. 

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I like Bbt its refreshing not seeing usual sitcom tropes. I enjoy mistakes, of day were all human. End of day i think shows success stems from this perculiar little world that also expands it self in a very real world way. I dont watch it for that Family Ties Welcome Back Kotter, moral in the end moments. I watch despite the laughs, but the very notion i see myself in all.these characters. Their successes, failures, fears, joy e.t.c Point is none of them are saints, and have all made mistakes, they are human. 

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I think what drawn me to the show is really this uniqueness. Mostly sitcoms characters have easy, one side characters. Whatever it's the good guy, funny guy, womanizer, geek and so on. Easy predictability can be so boring after the time. There is not even one character in BBT that would be one sided. Writers succeeded in giving them real depth and diverse personality above average sitcom tropes. Agree it's really refreshing and I guess part of such a big success. 

Edited by tallin
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I agree, hence why I qualified it with "in most cases".

I think he clearly knew he was being mean, in Itchy Brain.

Yeah. People just makes excuses for Sheldon. He is not stupid.

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He lied to Penny several times, about supporting her, when she quit her job as a waitress, to become a full time actress.

Leonard: Look, I get it, and I want you to know that I support whatever you want to do.

Penny: Great, because I’ve been thinking, if I really want this acting thing to work, I need to focus all my energy on it. And to do that, I should quit waitressing at The Cheesecake Factory.

Leonard: Wow. That, that’s a big step.

Penny: I know.

Leonard: So, well, before making any rash…

Penny: I already quit.

Leonard: And I support you.

AND

Raj: Well, do you support this?

Leonard: Of course I do. She’s a great actress. I’m proud she’s taking this risk.

Amy: That’s nice.

Leonard: You bought that? Great. I got to call her before I forget how I said it.

AND

Leonard: You got your job back. That is great news. I didn’t want to say anything, but you are making the right choice. To plunge yourself into debt right now would be literally insane.

Penny: Yeah. I’m just returning my uniform.

Leonard: And I support you.

He didn't know that, when he was making out with Alice.

Look, I'm no fan of Priya. I think she was overbearing, domineering and lacked empathy.

Given the choice, I'd take Alice over Priya any day of the week, but I'd have the decency to split up with Priya (assuming I was with her to begin with), before making out with Alice.

 

Oh Stephen.

 

You are totally cherry picking here by deliberately not including or referencing the SALIENT other dialogue in that exact same episode that gives full meaning and disclosure to Leonard's actions. 

 

He is much more cautious than Penny, taking into consideration the consequences of actions. In the preliminary, set-up dialogue you gave us, Leonard's focus is not to have Penny be reckless and throw herself into more debt. In Season 7, he knows how she is with money and she stresses over it. 

 

And then, later that same episode, we go into the dialogue that undoes your argument. Leonard was not lying as much as he did not know how to be supportive. Her actions were contrary to his more cautious, considered lifestyle and working psychology.

 I took the Sheldon commentary out of the conversation. Unlike TPTB, I don't think Sheldon needs to be present in every Lenny moment.

Leonard: Oh, how many times do I have to say it? I support you.

Penny: Sheldon, take a break. 

Penny: Okay, if you support me, what was with that phone call?

Leonard: Fine. I’m not sure you should have quit. But if you care so much what I think, why didn’t you ask me before you did it?

Penny: Oh, so now I need your permission? Would you have asked me before you quit your job?

Leonard: Yes. I thought we were in the kind of relationship where we make decisions together. If I’m wrong, then maybe we need to talk about the kind of relationship we’re actually in.

Penny: Yeah, well, maybe we do.

Penny: Look, I know you think I’m being reckless, and you might be right, but I need to take this shot.

Leonard: I swear, I am on your side.

Penny: You keep saying you’re on my side, but you don’t act like it.

Leonard: Listen, I could never do what you’re doing, okay? I would be terrified. 

Penny: Well, it’s scary for me, too.

Leonard: My point is, just because I couldn’t do it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t. And I’m proud of you.

Penny: Okay. Thank you.

Leonard was, at first, judging Penny's actions by what he was capable of. This type of reckless, unplanned type of activity is not him. But it is very much Penny. And Leonard is terrified for her and does not want her to get hurt. He'd rather see her take considered steps towards something … like he would do. They clearly saw the relationship as almost two different things: Leonard -- discuss things as a couple; Penny -- just go ahead impulsively as she always has regardless of the consequences or how it may effect her SO. 

 

Leonard FULLY supported Penny but he would have chosen an alternate route from her to get there. That's what this whole dialogue in the episode was about. And by cherry picking the dialogue as you did, to skew the conversation, purposely choosing to color Leonard very badly without the full disclosure. Is this some anti-Leonard bias I've never noticed before? 

 

 

 

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Chrismo, only because you hate Sheldon's guts and yoir faith in Lenny is so weak that you have to criticize the other's ship in order to feel OK about your own doesn't make you right. I think you need to hear that.

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Chrismo, only because you hate Sheldon's guts and yoir faith in Lenny is so weak that you have to criticize the other's ship in order to feel OK about your own doesn't make you right. I think you need to hear that.

it seems you and some of your fellow shippers always have to make excuses for Sheldon. I like Sheldon as much as you like Lenny. if it makes you feel better pick on Lenny go ahead all you want. But don't start crying when some one criticizes your ship. Of course I can you use the same excuse many Sheldon fans have for Leonard's behavior. he doesn't know any better.

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@5mississippis. Well said and I couldn't have put it better. He was just looking out for penny but as usual she couldn't see it and thinks he is not supporting her. All stephen ever does is put down lenny. When Chrismo point out the issues with Shamy he is called a Shamy hater. So I guess that's what Stephen is. A lenny hater but a least Chrismo comments have been proven right as we all saw in S8 final. All is not well. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

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it seems you and some of your fellow shippers always have to make excuses for Sheldon. I like Sheldon as much as you like Lenny. if it makes you feel better pick on Lenny go ahead all you want. But don't start crying when some one criticizes your ship. Of course I can you use the same excuse many Sheldon fans have for Leonard's behavior. he doesn't know any better.

Chrismo, I am going to be honest with you. From what I've read, almost every one of your posts is written in a way that criticizes Sheldon or Shamy, and almost every time when somebody states that he/she doesn't think that a particular thing that Sheldon did was wrong, you bring up "making excuses" argument, without even bothering to actually explain why you disagree with the other person's opinion, essentially acting like their opinion about that matter is meaningless and biased only because they like Sheldon and/or ship Shamy. Most of the time, when somebody criticizes Lenny, you bring up flaws in Shamy relationship because, somehow, that is supposed to make Lenny look better. Saying that you like Sheldon just as much as Lenny is IMO a bs. You also seem to have problems with stereotypes, because you had stated, multiple times, that Shamy thread is a place where people only post good things about Sheldon. 

And no, I don't "cry" when somebody criticizes my ship. And I've stated, many times, that I think that we still have a lot to learn about the North Sea incident in order to make up our minds, and I haven't even criticized Leonard's actions in that situation. If you had actually bothered to read my posts, you would also know that I don't even consider what Leonard did with Allice to be cheating. And I've admitted to finding many Sheldon's actions to be wrong (such as insulting Howard over his lack of PhD, being too inconsiderarde around Amy-mostly in season six-and, yes, his behavior in The Itchy Brain Simulation), and yes, Despite that, I think that he does have difficulties, such as poor social skills and OCD, that affect his behavior at times, which had been made very clear at the show (and I've explained a lot about that too).
Your behavior can come off as, no offense (and no, I am not using that statement to cover up the fact that I am offending you, because that is not true), immature. Most of the time. And disrespectful. Mostly towards yourself, because apparently the only way you can enjoy your ship is to vilanize the other main one.
And yes, I am completely aware of Tensor's attitude about posters making posts about the way other people post (OMG) and I think that is completely justified and I'm sorry that my post had venture there.. But I honestly think that we would all be happier if some posters could see the bigger picture and broaden their views. And yes, I am willing to take some advices myself too, because I, like everyone else, am not perfect. But please, lets not twist the words and make assumptions and ignore the (possible) flaws in our own reasonings. It is immature and, I think, disrespectful, and it only creates more problems on the places where there were none, and it doesn't do anyone any good, it only strains the relations between the shippers for no good reason.
Edited by Mislav

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Mislav. It's time to give up the OCD EXCUSE. It's an insult to everyone that has it. As your fellow shipper Stephen Hawking says About Leonard once a cheater always a cheater. I say about Sheldon once a liar always a liar.

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So I guess that's what Stephen is. A Lenny hater.

I'm not a Lenny hater. I just don't put them on a pedestal.

Leonard isn't perfect (just as the rest aren't), and he's made some very bad decisions, and acted in a selfish and disrespectful way, toward at least three women.

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Chrismo, stop cherry picking. Again, if you've read my posts, you would know that I only talk about OCD in regards to Sheldon being so strict/obsessive with his rules, which is what many people criticize, not for his other actions.

And again, do you actually consider lying to the third party to be just as bad as, or worse than cheating (which you think Leonard had done two times)?

And tonstar, when exactly did Stephen call Chrismo a Shamy hater? I am not being sarcastic, I am asking, maybe I have missed something...

And I am confused-one moment Lenny shippers criticize Leonard, and when Shamy shippers criticizes Leonard's actions then it's outrageous... 

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I'm not a Lenny hater. I just don't put them on a pedestal.

Leonard isn't perfect (just as the rest aren't), and he's made some very bad decisions, and acted in a selfish and disrespectful way, toward at least three women.

You just put shamy on a pedestal and they can't do no wrong because I don't see you critizing all the horrible things Sheldon has done to lenny and his so called friends. Oh I know Leonard is a jerk and horrible person he doesn't deserve Sheldon or penny in his life. Happy now. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
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Chrismo, stop cherry picking. Again, if you've read my posts, you would know that I only talk about OCD in regards to Sheldon being so strict/obsessive with his rules, which is what many people criticize, not for his other actions.

And again, do you actually consider lying to the third party to be just as bad as, or worse than cheating (which you think Leonard had done two times)?

And tonstar, when exactly did Stephen call Chrismo a Shamy hater? I am not being sarcastic, I am asking, maybe I have missed something...

And I am confused-one moment Lenny shippers criticize Leonard, and when Shamy shippers criticizes Leonard's actions then it's outrageous... 

I didn't specifically say Stephen. Chrismo has been called a hater by a some shamy shippers. Critizising and always saying negative things are two different things. We critizise lenny but we are also supportive and positive. Stephen has never said anything positive about lenny when he post about lenny he always has a dig.That's the difference. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
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I didn't specifically say Stephen. Chrismo has been called a hater by a some shamy shippers. Critizising and always saying negative things are two different things. We critizise lenny but we are also supportive and positive. Stephen has never said anything positive about lenny when he post about lenny he always has a dig.That's the difference. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Mislav

I am not going discuss about Stephen, since I am not as familiar with his posts, as I've said, most of Chrismo's posts regarding Shamy seem to be critical, in a way that involves a lot of cherry picking and borderline rude dismissiveness of the one's opinion. Can that qualify as hate is questionable, but it is very close if nothing else. 

And, since you seem to be with Chrismo on this one, can you explain what possible reason Chrismo had to bring in Shamy in that discussion? The discussion was about Leonard's actions on North Sea, then Chrismo, out of the blue, bought up a completely unrelated Shamy moment two season ago, and said among the lines of: "What is worse, cheating (not "what Leonard did" or even "Leonard cheating", just "cheating") on somebody and admitting it or lying?"

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You just put Shamy on a pedestal and they can't do no wrong because I don't see you criticizing all the horrible things Sheldon has done to Lenny and his so called friends.

Did you miss (or are you just conveniently ignoring) where I said "I think he clearly knew he was being mean, in Itchy Brain."

he has done some awful things, but much of it is not intentional, although, as I admitted above, some is.

Stephen has never said anything positive about Lenny when he post about Lenny he always has a dig.

I don't "have a dig". I point out facts.

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Mislav

I am not going discuss about Stephen, since I am not as familiar with his posts, as I've said, most of Chrismo's posts regarding Shamy seem to be critical, in a way that involves a lot of cherry picking and borderline rude dismissiveness of the one's opinion. Can that qualify as hate is questionable, but it is very close if nothing else. 

And, since you seem to be with Chrismo on this one, can you explain what possible reason Chrismo had to bring in Shamy in that discussion? The discussion was about Leonard's actions on North Sea, then Chrismo, out of the blue, bought up a completely unrelated Shamy moment two season ago, and said among the lines of: "What is worse, cheating (not "what Leonard did" or even "Leonard cheating", just "cheating") on somebody and admitting it or lying?"

What Chrismo does or say is his opinion, I don't agree with everything he says but he also makes some valid points about Shamy. The thing is I would love if we posters could have a civilised discussion about any ship, the ups and downs the positives and the negatives without it turning into a shipping war. We all love our ships but we are sometimes blinded by it and do not see things that are clearly wrong. Sometimes it takes a poster from another ship to open our eyes and see all is not well. Just look at S8 final not many saw that coming for Lenny and shamy. I just want us to be able to talk about each other's ships in a nice way and cut out all the digging and see someone else's point of view from a different prospective. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
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What Chrismo does or say is his opinion, I don't agree with everything he says but he also makes some valid points about Shamy. The thing is I would love if we posters could have a civilised discussion about any ship, the ups and downs the positives and the negatives without it turning into a shipping war. We all love our ships but we are sometimes blinded by it and do not see things that are clearly wrong. Sometimes it takes a poster from another ship to open our eyes and see all is not well. Just look at S8 final not many saw that coming for Lenny and shamy. I just want us to be able to talk about each other's ships in a nice way and cut out all the digging and see someone else's point of view from a different prospective. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I understand, and that is what I've written a few posts above. And I do hope that the things will work out for both Shamy and Lenny.

My real problem is the way Chrismo expresses his opinion, and the logic behind it, not the opinion itself. And the attitude towards Shamy shippers. 
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I understand, and that is what I've written a few posts above. And I do hope that the things will work out for both Shamy and Lenny.

My real problem is the way Chrismo expresses his opinion, and the logic behind it, not the opinion itself. And the attitude towards Shamy shippers. 

I think Chrismo does it for the reaction and people fall for it or just can't help it and reply, just like I do to certain comments from some shamy shippers. I also don't think he does it to make himself feel good because of how lenny were portrayed in S8. He has been doing it for years. I don't think he has a problem with Shamy more Sheldon and I don't blame him because I'm not a fan of him myself. But then again there is a lot of people who hate leonard. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

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