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Tensor

[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9

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Anyone reading this, please share this page via your social media (you too Vasu) and help protect the victims of human trafficking on the UK's streets.

http://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/about-us/what-we-do/specialist-capabilities/uk-human-trafficking-centre/best-practice-guide

 

I'll try to dig out some statistics, this crime mustn't stay hidden and the more people who are aware, then the quicker measures can be put in place to prevent it happening to another innocent child, woman or man.

http://www.endcrowd.com/human-trafficking-facts-and-statistics/?gclid=CI-9r-7zl8YCFWvJtAod8QwAsw

 

https://www.stopthetraffik.org/spot/statistics

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19984615

http://www.unseenuk.org/

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someone's trying to get some sympathy points now...... haha

 

These are real people Vasu, not ones that exist only in your head.  Have some respect.

 

You raised the subject.  This is the reality.

 

You can make a difference.  The more awareness raised, the more lives rescued and pain prevented.  

 

I urge readers to share these links.

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After the finale of Season 8, I found tonight's runs of TBBT on TBS sadly ironic tonight.  

 

 The Bon Voyage Reaction:

 

Leonard: And...I'm a little worried because things between us have been so great, and I'd hate to do anything that screws that up.

 

Penny: Well, sweetie, if you going to screw things up, it's going to be while you're here, not while you're away.

 

 

The Hofstadter Insufficiency:

 

Sheldon: Well, perhaps you’re obsessively picturing him engaged in drunken coitus with another woman. Is that it? Did I get it right?

 

Penny: Okay, that, that’s great. You can stop trying to make me feel better now.

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And now I can officially say: you ARE wrong. Not in your opinions, because as you pointed out, opinions are subjective, but you are wrong in your assumptions. Why are you assuming that people hide behind their likes? Can't they just like a post? Can't they just agree with another poster? Again, being belligerent for NO reason. I really don't know who the hell you think you are that people have to answer to your posts and do it in the way you want them to.

 

Also in the characterization of the rationale for your opinion there are two things that I find particularly interesting:

 

1) You characterize the Lenny relationship as a will they-wont they, which is not. It might have been like that at the very beginning, but if you remember correctly before the end of the first season they had already kissed, and by mid third season (I believe) they had already split. So I don't know where the will they wont they that you allude to comes in. The only real build up between them was to the "I love you" by Penny, and that didn't hinder the quality of the writing, so...

2) Isn't it convenient that every time someone  tells you about an example that contradicts your theory of how difficult it is to write a couple after they settled (from a long build up -which is a false premise anyway-) you haven't seen the series they're talking about? Well ... the fact that you don't know said series, does not make any of those invalid examples, and in reality what does it matter if there are or aren't any examples? This is TBBT and in itself is a different sitcom from most, and as such the rules that apply are within the context of the series and the limits or lack thereof of its characters as written by the writers.

 

I know I haven't addressed all you points, but in my estimation I have rendered two very important ones, completely irrelevant.


I'm usually not as good as you are in presenting specific examples to support my opinions, but when I say that what they're doing with Lenny is lazy writing it's more a feeling that I get. However, when I view past episodes the differences become more apparent and the greater care put in writing the characters and their stories is more evident.

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And now I can officially say: you ARE wrong. Not in your opinions, because as you pointed out, opinions are subjective, but you are wrong in your assumptions. Why are you assuming that people hide behind their likes? Can't they just like a post? Can't they just agree with another poster? Again, being belligerent for NO reason. I really don't know who the hell you think you are that people have to answer to your posts and do it in the way you want them to.

Carlos, liking a post that starts with the words "ATOB you are wrong" is the electronic equivalent of the poster standing behind you to hold your coat while you roll up your shirtsleeves and come at me. I feel entirely justified in calling them out on it. I don't do passive aggressive ganging up, I am much more direct (as you have noticed). Got something to say? Then say it. That's my stance.

I summarized my points (that were 'wrong' by your estimation) to make them more concise and lucid (coz that's 'the hell' who I am).

 

Also in the characterization of the rationale for your opinion there are two things that I find particularly interesting:

 

1) You characterize the Lenny relationship as a will they-wont they, which is not. It might have been like that at the very beginning, but if you remember correctly before the end of the first season they had already kissed, and by mid third season (I believe) they had already split. So I don't know where the will they wont they that you allude to comes in.

.

Erm! What part of will they?/won't they? are you missing? Here, let me pop this part up again....look closely...

quote name="Carlos" post="380055" timestamp="1434596377"]

 

It might have been like that at the very beginning, but if you remember correctly before the end of the first season they had already kissed, and by mid third season (I believe) they had already split.

.

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First of all, greetings ATOB. Have enjoyed reading some of your work over the year.

As is often my usual position on this forum, I am stuck between both sides of this argument. One person's 'lazy' is another's 'floundering' I would suggest so in that case I think there is some common ground.

I'm interested in your perception of Lenny plateauing in their story. I agree in many sitcoms the "will they/won't they" couple's story ends poorly. Mork and Mindy, Tony and Angela, Fran and Mr Sheffield, Niles and Daphne, Sam and Diane, (heck Joanie and Chachi) all petered out once the union was made but in the case of Lenny, I'm more of the opinion that the writers have stalled before reaching the plateau. Did you see the engagement as the plateau? It seems the writers have and that's what caused the big pause in Season 8. Me, I see the actual wedding as the plateau, not just the inevitability of it. I think there are plenty of stories left for Lenny before reaching the crescendo of the marriage ( as opposed to what I perceive your idea of crescendo being the proposal - correct me if my opinion is incorrect).

I wasn't devastated by Season 8 as most Lenny fans on this forum were/are. I actually thought there were some good attempts to continue the Lenny story going early on. Yes I agree with you that sex in a big part of their story and has been since Season 1. Leonard and his desperation to get it from anyone interested and Penny with her well documented past were destined to make sex and big part of their inevitable but often stalled and strained Union. But for me, their story is just as much about their struggle to deal with their glaringly obvious differences as it is about their physical attraction and beautiful friendship. And that's where the stories can continue to come from in my view. I liked them questioning their relationship during the dinner with Shamy and that stupid relationship inventory. I thought it was good to have the discussion about money because that dynamic shift with Penny now not relying on Leonard for finance can be a funny story if thought about enough. It was cute that she used her ability to purchase stuff to buy him a helicopter to soothe him. I love it when their interests clash and they struggle to deal with that - sport and shopping vs Nerdvana. Their attempts to change and be more like the other can be funny, whether it's successful or not. The Proton funeral episode with Penny struggling with how much Star Wars she knew was hilarious. The Thor comic, Leonard attempting to learn football, Penny succeeding at puzzles in Scavenger hunt ( granted not with him, ) her and Amy beating the boys in games, Penny attempting romance, visiting the lab to understand his job were all good for me.

This can all continue with wedding plans without the floundering taking place and without trashing the brand with a "was there infidelity in the North Sea" forced tension story line. ( disagreeing over her acting career made sense; the boat kiss doesn't for me). Have the clash of cultures between families. Have the difference of opinions over wedding themes. Have them butting heads over honeymoon options. Bring some humor into their different ideas about living arrangements and who's paying for what. I don't need the horse riding lessons or sex toy plots you scoffed at. For me their differences in life choices, like my wife and I, ( real life Lenny as I've recounted many times if you haven't noticed ) can be great sources of comedy.

So I definitely agree with you that the writers are floundering with Lenny. I just differ with you on why and how it should be addressed. Whether it's lazy writing to just bring in a bit of conflict over debatable infidelity to put a bit of oomph into the Lenny story ,as you so eloquently put it, and whether that line of story telling is needed, is debatable.

I'm no wildly successful comedy writer like these guys are but it doesn't mean they're immune to some critiquing. Lenny often get criticised by non fans for bring a bit boring because they have little in common other than the sex. But for me, as much as Shamy's story of two quirky spirits with much in common but little understanding of what being in love means is a gold mine for much story telling, I think the Lenny story of two kindred spirits with little in common but a better but still imperfect understanding of what being in love means can be just as compelling.

How was that ATOB? Enough of an explanation for why we may or may not agree/disagree? Let's see what the others can come up with.

For the record, I don't like the infidelity storyline either. I can hazard a guess why they did it (as I have done based on my observations) but that doesn't mean I think it's good. A tension bringer? Sure! Good? Yeeeaaaah, no!

I'm kind of stumped actually. I can pinpoint the pinnacle for Niles and Daphne in Frasier (when they ran out of the wedding in the Winnebago) but Lenny's more nebulous, I can't put my finger on it. They are a little more like the Ross/Rachel in Friends trajectory I think.

Will have to ponder on...watch this space...

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At least my belligerence is out in the open, I don't hide it behind sneaky little 'likes' on the posts of people who actually have the moxie to address me directly.  5Mississippis, I see you've joined this little clicky-clique gang

 

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

 

Where did this come from? You are implying that I am hiding behind 'sneaky little 'likes' on the posts of people who actually have the moxie to address [you] directly'?

 

Pfffffft! Don't flatter yourself. Far from it. I've jumped into various frays many times before.

 

I was simply enjoying reading the vollying back and forth regarding this topic while completely disagreeing with everything you say. When did it become mandatory that I have to address your rambling, beligerent posts in any substantive manner? It's verboten that I just can't 'like' a post when someone says something I totally agree with, and, who says it in a more concise, definitive, more poetic manner than I ever could?

 

No. I don't have to answer you or your concerns in any way, shape, or form. And if I choose to 'like' every other post on this forum except yours, I will. As a matter of fact, I will 'like' this very post after I publish it.

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Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

 

Where did this come from? You are implying that I am hiding behind 'sneaky little 'likes' on the posts of people who actually have the moxie to address [you] directly'?

 

Pfffffft! Don't flatter yourself. Far from it. I've jumped into various frays many times before.

 

I was simply enjoying reading the vollying back and forth regarding this topic while completely disagreeing with everything you say. When did it become mandatory that I have to address your rambling, beligerent posts in any substantive manner? It's verboten that I just can't 'like' a post when someone says something I totally agree with, and, who says it in a more concise, definitive, more poetic manner than I ever could?

 

No. I don't have to answer you or your concerns in any way, shape, or form. And if I choose to 'like' every other post on this forum except yours, I will. As a matter of fact, I will 'like' this very post after I publish it.

Yes, and you jumped straight into this fray with your click of that 'like' button. Pleased you have the gumption to acknowledge it. Good for you.

You completely disagree with everything I say do you? Well, let's pare down my points further.

I say Lenny have a sexual component to their relationship.

I say it's difficult to keep the same level of excitement once a relationship has plateaued after a big build up.

I say the infidelity is a writers device to add another dimension in light of this.

So, you disagree huh? Lenny are platonic, like brother and sister yeah? It easy-peasy to keep that level of excitement, just look at all these examples......oh wait, hang on. The writers are morons who couldn't use a pen to poke their way out of a wet paper bag, the fact that they deliver the top sitcom in TV Land is mere luck on their part. Am I getting warmer?

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Yes, and you jumped straight into this fray with your click of that 'like' button. Pleased you have the gumption to acknowledge it. Good for you.

You completely disagree with everything I say do you? Well, let's pare down my points further.

I say Lenny have a sexual component to their relationship.

I say it's difficult to keep the same level of excitement once a relationship has plateaued after a big build up.

I say the infidelity is a writers device to add another dimension in light of this.

So, you disagree huh? Lenny are platonic, like brother and sister yeah? It easy-peasy to keep that level of excitement, just look at all these examples......oh wait, hang on. The writers are morons who couldn't use a pen to poke their way out of a wet paper bag, the fact that they deliver the top sitcom in TV Land is mere luck on their part. Am I getting warmer?

 

Since June 14, you have had 37 exchanges, on this thread alone, engaging, disagreeing with, badgering, baiting, challenging, arguing with:

rachaelshamyfan,

Tonstar,

old sailor,

Carlos,

gsxdoug,

Tensor,

vasu,

Itwasdestined,

Norman

 

and for some reason, you felt you needed to add one more to that number and so you threw me in too because I hit the 'Like' button and agreed with others.  

 

Re-Read my post.

 

I am in not insterested in engaging with you in any way. 37 rambling, beligerent posts over since June 14 at 7:41 and arguing with nine other members on this forum is quite a full plate.

 

Stop baiting me and go play somewhere else.

 

Keep harrassing me like this and it it will be my second report to Tensor about you.

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Since June 14, you have had 37 exchanges, on this thread alone, engaging, disagreeing with, badgering, baiting, challenging, arguing with:

rachaelshamyfan,

Tonstar,

old sailor,

Carlos,

gsxdoug,

Tensor,

vasu,

Itwasdestined,

Norman

 

and for some reason, you felt you needed to add one more to that number and so you threw me in too because I hit the 'Like' button and agreed with others.  

 

Re-Read my post.

 

I am in not insterested in engaging with you in any way. 37 rambling, beligerent posts over since June 14 at 7:41 and arguing with nine other members on this forum is quite a full plate.

 

Stop baiting me and go play somewhere else.

 

Keep harrassing me like this and it it will be my second report to Tensor about you.

Do you misunderstand the nature of this thread? It's a debate zone. It's called "shipping lanes".... coupla clues right there.

You entered into this debate by backing up a poster who has declared me impartial because I am a feminist and states my own personal opinions are "wrong", not different to his, but "wrong", twice now! I can call him out on that and I can call you out for supporting him.

If you didn't want to enter into this fray, then it was easy enough to stay out of it wasn't it? So, report away. Go tell Tensor someone's addressed you about your passive aggression on a debate thread. Off you trot if that's all you've got to bring to this debate on a debate thread.

Kath2611, you don't seem to have a lot to say about this? Cat got your tongue?

Norman, Old Sailor and Tonstar have entered into the spirit of this thread though, kudos.

And et tu Veejay huh? Et tu?

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I fully understand the nature of this thread. And I was very happily following the spirited debate on the sidelines until you threw me into it when I didn't offer any comment on anything but supported the opinions of others which just happened to be contrary to yours. If I wanted to join you in your continually beligerent rant, I would have offered dialogue hours ago. A passing interest in the debate, reading it, and hitting the 'Like' button by no means means that I want or care for full investment the same or, most importantly, that you are entitled to throw me in the middle of it.

That is just ignorant and very bad form.

Going to Tensor?

Done and done.

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WTF!!!

First of all, the ONLY damn thing I've said on THIS thread was asking Stephen Hawking about one of his fanfics!! And as for "liking" a post, if I did, it was by accident and I'd actually like to know how I did it.

Until T & T put the season 9 threads up, I was using Tapatalk but they don't have Season 9 up yet....or more than likely I need to update it on my phone. Now, I'm doing things on the actual site and I'm still getting the damn hang of it. Hell, Tripper had to help me with my password.

Don't be dragging my ass into an argument that I didn't jump into!!

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I think that the writers were lazy in their writing of all relationships that were not Shamy in Season 8. I think that there is plenty of narrative potential in Raj and Emily's relationship (it can be worrying for Raj, who wants so badly to be with someone, to find a lovely woman who is into him but just isn't quite right); in Howard and Bernie's attempting to navigate the loss of Howard's mother, and Howard's regression into childhood; in Leonard and Penny's mutual love, but also worries about things like their lack of shared interests. There's plenty of good stuff there. Yes, it may be hard to find the setup/punchline rhythm that the show prefers with these situations, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible, or that the writers shouldn't try to find the humour in them anyway. So, okay, you need to experiment, writers. If writers in your position can't experiment, then who the hell can?

 

I also think that Leonard's infidelity was an arse-pull done to rationalise the lackadaisical attitude the writers took towards the Lenny wedding. Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't want S8 to be all Lenny wedding, all the time. But I definitely found it weird that the characters (Leonard especially) seemed to be spinning their wheels. And then they brandished something as serious as infidelity to say 'see, Leonard's attitude made sense after all!' The thing is, no it didn't. The writers didn't write Leonard as guilty, or hesitant, or anything like that, over the season. 

 

i am withholding judgement until the first few episodes of S9. If the storyline plays out as 'Leonard also worries that he and Penny don't have stuff in common, and that is why he sabotaged the Vegas wedding', then I will allow it- so long as they follow through on it!

 

If the storyline plays out as something like 'Penny sees the other girl and realises that Penny is way hotter and therefore forgives Leonard and everything is hunky dory', then I call shenanigans, show.

 

Also, the will-they/won't-they thing was never the most compelling thing to me about the Leonard/Penny relationship. I liked them very much in S7, when they were together, being loving and playful and supportive. They were delightful then. The on/off thing makes me roll my eyes faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar into the back of my skull. YMMV, of course.

Edited by wowbagger
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Oh and before I get accused because I'm liking two of the above posts....

I've also been following the debate quietly and though I agree with many posts on both sides of the fence, going after people because they choose to like a post rather than wade into the fray is where I draw the line.

This is a debate zone and as such, posters are allowed to disagree with each other, and support each other in the method they deem works for them. Sometimes that's an exposition post and sometimes its likes. That's the way forum life works so DEAL WITH IT.

And one last thing: as a fellow woman and feminist don't be bringing the feminist agenda into this cause it has nothing to do with the topic or the current conversation. And quite honestly dragging it into this conversation not only derails it needlessly but also does a real disservice to the feminist agenda. There's a time and place for it and this isnt it.

End rant.

Sent from my C6616 using Tapatalk

Edited by CaffeineBuzz
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And et tu Veejay huh? Et tu? 

 

Thank you for making your case so articulately!

Oh, wait...           :anim_drool:

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I fully understand the nature of this thread. And I was very happily following the spirited debate on the sidelines until you threw me into it when I didn't offer any comment on anything but supported the opinions of others which just happened to be contrary to yours. If I wanted to join you in your continually beligerent rant, I would have offered dialogue hours ago. A passing interest in the debate, reading it, and hitting the 'Like' button by no means means that I want or care for full investment the same or, most importantly, that you are entitled to throw me in the middle of it.

That is just ignorant and very bad form.

Going to Tensor?

Done and done.

 

Well, my opinion on this and yours differs greatly, good job we're in a debate thread eh?  Here's my opinion....

 

 

Carlos, liking a post that starts with the words "ATOB you are wrong" is the electronic equivalent of the poster standing behind you to hold your coat while you roll up your shirtsleeves and come at me. I feel entirely justified in calling them out on it. I don't do passive aggressive ganging up, I am much more direct (as you have noticed). Got something to say? Then say it. That's my stance.

 

 

I'd be interested to know what forum rules you think I've broken though. :)

WTF!!!

First of all, the ONLY damn thing I've said on THIS thread was asking Stephen Hawking about one of his fanfics!! And as for "liking" a post, if I did, it was by accident and I'd actually like to know how I did it.

Until T & T put the season 9 threads up, I was using Tapatalk but they don't have Season 9 up yet....or more than likely I need to update it on my phone. Now, I'm doing things on the actual site and I'm still getting the damn hang of it. Hell, Tripper had to help me with my password.

Don't be dragging my ass into an argument that I didn't jump into!!

 

Kathr2611, that's all you needed to say.  I felt it was incredibly odd for you to be in amongst the myrmidon hoard and was really puzzled that you felt the need to put the boot in like the others.  If you scroll back, you'll find Carlos' thread with a 'like' from you on it.  A misunderstanding, and a heartfelt apology from me if I have upset you.  

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Oh and before I get accused because I'm liking two of the above posts....

I've also been following the debate quietly and though I agree with many posts on both sides of the fence, going after people because they choose to like a post rather than wade into the fray is where I draw the line.

This is a debate zone and as such, posters are allowed to disagree with each other, and support each other in the method they deem works for them. Sometimes that's an exposition post and sometimes its likes. That's the way forum life works so DEAL WITH IT.

 

 

Yes, this is a debate zone.  So when a poster says ATOB you are wrong and a number of posters 'like' it, where is the issue is asking those posters firstly in what way they disagree with the points I've made, and also question why they felt the need to get involved in what was obviously becoming a heated debate?  These  poster's picked their side didn't they?  No-one forced them.  

 

 

And one last thing: as a fellow woman and feminist don't be bringing the feminist agenda into this cause it has nothing to do with the topic or the current conversation. And quite honestly dragging it into this conversation not only derails it needlessly but also does a real disservice to the feminist agenda. There's a time and place for it and this isnt it.

End rant.

 

 

But you see CaffeineBuzz I am genuinely curious as to why Carlos feels my belief in equality means I cannot offer an impartial argument.  He dodged answering before, and twice now on this thread.

 

So, as a believer in equal rights yourself, do you think I should just leave him to equate feminism with misandry, or shall I ask him to offer an explanation as to why he thinks of feminism in this way?

 

I'm sorry, but you don't get to dictate what I can and can't discuss and declare that I am a bad feminist doing 'disservice to the agenda. Neither do you dictate the 'time and place' where I am permitted to air views that are my personal opinion.  Who do you think you are?  Get over yourself.

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Ahh, is it the little check marks in the right hand corner that's the "like" button? Got it and actually looking back and reading the one I "accidently" liked which was one of Carlos's posts, yeah, I do like that one.

Especially the last paragraph....I hate that the writers stall everything so much that the story telling is starting to ring untrue, artificial, and not organic. Let things unfold as they should, and don't keep everything that is endgame for later because in the meantime what they are giving us is (IMO) crap.

Shamy is a perfect example of this. 2 1/2 years ago, in the Cooper/Kripke whatever the hell it's called, Penny asks him if he's ever going to sleep with Amy. His excuse is he has a problem with touching people and others touching him and that he's working on it.

Well, he doesn't seem to have a problem with that NOW so what's the excuse this time? It's starting to get old and boring. Just fucking do it already! The more they drag it out, the more pathetic Amy looks for sticking with him!

As much as I liked the Shamy in S8, there was something missing. S8 in general wasn't as funny. Not enough group interactions and it did feel like two shows in one sometimes. One with Lenny & Shamy and the other with Raj & Howardette. They put Lenny on the back burner waaay too much and what the hell is up with the lack of kissing? Lenny has a damn list a mile long of all the kisses in the last 7 seasons and what do you guys get for season 8? ONE! That's noticable even if your not much of a Lenny shipper!! (Aka, lazy writing, IMO).

The lack of continuity. My biggest beef on this is Sheldon's birthday. There have been several episodes throughout the series that established him being a Taurus. Then all of a sudden we find out in The Intimacy Acceleration that he's a Pisces and NOBODY in the group knew when his birthday was?? BULL SHIT!! Not buying it!!! Lazy writing!! They couldn't come up with a better ending then that?! How pathetic!! Even the critics pointed this one out!

So yeah, ATOB, there's my two cents....happy now?

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Thank you for making your case so articulately!

Oh, wait...           :anim_drool:

 

 

Oh, I've pared it done to the bare bones now VeeJay (wouldn't want to bore anyone with my rambling belligerence now would I?).

 

Here y' go...

 

I say Lenny have a sexual component to their relationship.

I say it's difficult to keep the same level of excitement once a relationship has plateaued after a big build up.

I say the infidelity is a writers device to add another dimension in light of this.

 

 

I take it you strongly disagree to all three yeah?

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Ahh, is it the little check marks in the right hand corner that's the "like" button? Got it and actually looking back and reading the one I "accidently" liked which was one of Carlos's posts, yeah, I do like that one.

Especially the last paragraph....I hate that the writers stall everything so much that the story telling is starting to ring untrue, artificial, and not organic. Let things unfold as they should, and don't keep everything that is endgame for later because in the meantime what they are giving us is (IMO) crap.

Shamy is a perfect example of this. 2 1/2 years ago, in the Cooper/Kripke whatever the hell it's called, Penny asks him if he's ever going to sleep with Amy. His excuse is he has a problem with touching people and others touching him and that he's working on it.

Well, he doesn't seem to have a problem with that NOW so what's the excuse this time? It's starting to get old and boring. Just fucking do it already! The more they drag it out, the more pathetic Amy looks for sticking with him!

As much as I liked the Shamy in S8, there was something missing. S8 in general wasn't as funny. Not enough group interactions and it did feel like two shows in one sometimes. One with Lenny & Shamy and the other with Raj & Howardette. They put Lenny on the back burner waaay too much and what the hell is up with the lack of kissing? Lenny has a damn list a mile long of all the kisses in the last 7 seasons and what do you guys get for season 8? ONE! That's noticable even if your not much of a Lenny shipper!! (Aka, lazy writing, IMO).

The lack of continuity. My biggest beef on this is Sheldon's birthday. There have been several episodes throughout the series that established him being a Taurus. Then all of a sudden we find out in The Intimacy Acceleration that he's a Pisces and NOBODY in the group knew when his birthday was?? BULL SHIT!! Not buying it!!! Lazy writing!! They couldn't come up with a better ending then that?! How pathetic!! Even the critics pointed this one out!

So yeah, ATOB, there's my two cents....happy now?

 

Yes.

 

I do prefer 'floundering' to the word 'lazy' though.  'Floundering' suggests struggle and 'Lazy' not trying.  Like I said, I think it's a hard thing to pull off with Lenny (however, even I'm getting bored with the 'build up to plateau' argument now so I'm not going to beat it out further).

 

Agree the birthday thing was slack though and I didn't like the cheating.  The Shamy break-up I think needed to happen and will take them to the next stage in Season 9.

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Yes, this is a debate zone. So when a poster says ATOB you are wrong and a number of posters 'like' it, where is the issue is asking those posters firstly in what way they disagree with the points I've made, and also question why they felt the need to get involved in what was obviously becoming a heated debate? These poster's picked their side didn't they? No-one forced them.

But you see CaffeineBuzz I am genuinely curious as to why Carlos feels my belief in equality means I cannot offer an impartial argument. He dodged answering before, and twice now on this thread.

So, as a believer in equal rights yourself, do you think I should just leave him to equate feminism with misandry, or shall I ask him to offer an explanation as to why he thinks of feminism in this way?

I'm sorry, but you don't get to dictate what I can and can't discuss and declare that I am a bad feminist doing 'disservice to the agenda. Neither do you dictate the 'time and place' where I am permitted to air views that are my personal opinion. Who do you think you are? Get over yourself.

I'm not even going to bother with the "who do you think you are" comment cause honestly, right back at ya sweetie.

All I will say is leave the feminist agenda out of this thread. This is a shipping lanes thread where we discuss the show not societal perceptions on feminism or misogyny. You want to debate that issue? Then feel free to start an appropriate thread over in the chit chat section of the forum where that topic belongs. Then if you want you and I can go rounds in there comparing "feminist badges of merit" like in girl scouts if I feel like it

Edited by CaffeineBuzz
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Ok, then "floundering" for Lenny throughout the season 8 with the exception of the finale. I think they put them on the back burner to speed up the Shamy and then just forgot about them. And as for the finale, I call that one lazy. They couldn't come up with something more BELIEVABLE than that kiss?

The birthday thing I flat out call lazy. There's simply no other excuse other than laziness. They need to go back and watch their own damn show and look at all the other times they established him being a Taurus!

I actually wasn't surprised that Amy reached her breaking point with Sheldon and needed to take a step back but they really do need to move them forward in the physical dept in season 9 or it really will be unbelievable, sad and pathetic.

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I'm not even going to bother with the "who do you think you are" comment cause honestly, right back at ya sweetie.

All I will say is leave the feminist agenda out of this thread. This is a shipping lanes thread where we discuss the show not societal perceptions on feminism or misogyny. You want to debate that issue? Then feel free to start an appropriate thread over in the chit chat section of the forum where that topic belongs. Then if you want you and I can go rounds in there comparing "feminist badges of merit" like in girl scouts if I feel like it

Sent from my C6616 using Tapatalk

There's a thread called "Everyday feminism" on here somewhere. Perhaps Tensor will move our posts there and, if you're up for it, we can bash it out. You clearly think I'm letting the side down (am I right in guessing you're 2nd wave?). I'm third wave and think the rigidity that some impose is as restrictive as the patriarchy was, just a new set of opressive rules this time imposed by women. I look forward to it.

Call me!

Ok, then "floundering" for Lenny throughout the season 8 with the exception of the finale. I think they put them on the back burner to speed up the Shamy and then just forgot about them. And as for the finale, I call that one lazy. They couldn't come up with something more BELIEVABLE than that kiss?

The birthday thing I flat out call lazy. There's simply no other excuse other than laziness. They need to go back and watch their own damn show and look at all the other times they established him being a Taurus!

I actually wasn't surprised that Amy reached her breaking point with Sheldon and needed to take a step back but they really do need to move them forward in the physical dept in season 9 or it really will be unbelievable, sad and pathetic.

100% agree.

Shamy are on their build. I think the writers will do better with their story timing wise as they have a deadline. Whether or not sharks get jumped if it goes into Season 11, even 12 (the actors have signed options I think I heard on here somewhere) is the big question.

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