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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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Why shoulden't they try and get Amy a new boyfriend? What we are susposed to feel sorry for Sheldon, or their should be some implied loyalty? Oh yeah like Sheldon has shown that amount of Loyalty over the years. In reality Sheldon is a selfish, narcissistic, arrogant, dickhead with no redeeming qualities. Why anyone feels sorry for this idiot is beyond me. He has treated Amy like a doormat for five seasons now, I am sorry the truth hurts. They have completely destroyed Amy's character now. I wish they would stay as Friends, because Amy can do MUCH better.

Please don't use the "d" word.  I think it's incredibly offensive, like calling a woman the "c" word.

The problem with "getting Amy a new boyfriend" is that they're not telling the story to suit your sensibilities or your opinion of Sheldon, which is pretty harsh.  The thing is, she's tried dating others and has apparently decided that she DOESN'T WANT a new boyfriend, no matter what you want for her.  I think you're oversimplifying Sheldon's qualities and only looking at the negative.  He certainly does have redeeming qualities or he wouldn't have the group of friends that he does have, especially Leonard and Amy.

And your assessment of Amy is oversimplified, as well, IMO.  I don't think it's "the truth", and maybe the truth is that Amy feels she can't do better because Sheldon is the one she wants.  "I've had the rest, yes, and that is the one for me..."

Well yeah that is true, Sheldon being single well give him a lot of time on his hands haha. Look I can see Sheldon really has strong feelings for Amy, I just don't think IMO he well ever be capable of the change Amy wants for him. I mean seriously they are what in their 5th year of their relationship, I know its slow, glacier pace. But boy snails have moved faster lol. I just wish the writers would make their minds up, have them together romantically or not, it is simple as that. They are kinda more like Ross and Rachel then Leonard and Penny are tbh. A strong connection and bond, but a lack of trust and understanding, and depth that Lenny have. So I actually see them pulling a Ross and Rachel with Shamy, and they get back together in the final episode. Irony is Leonard and Penny married and living together, their story is now very similar to Marshall and Lilly, and Monica and Chandler. Shamy have more in common with Ross and Rachel currently

What change is it you think Amy wants for him?  Sheldon loves Amy and Amy loves Sheldon, whatever the difficulties may be for them.  What makes you think the writers haven't made up their minds about S/A?  They're still working on getting back together--they've barely started!  Just because they hadn't yet had sex doesn't mean they weren't romantically involved or that they won't go back to being romantically involved again, even without sex.

Why do they have to be like Ross/Rachel or L/P or like anyone else?  There's no required pattern for them to follow--that's always been their strength, in fact, that they don't follow the typical pattern, especially when it comes to sex.  I don't think there's really a lack of trust or understanding.  Maybe for just this moment and they work on reconnecting, but overall, no.  They have a good sense of trust--so much so that Sheldon has indeed changed as a result of Amy's influence in his life.

I hate all this stupid "Friends" comparisons.  TBBT writers are not imitating Friends, even if there are some similarities.  There are similarities in many relationship stories, since we're all human beings with human motivations and failures.  The writers don't have to look to Friends to come up with their own story material.

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Lenny got screwed, not just with the wedding, but with the events leading up to and the aftermath. I don't think that it is a terrible idea in theory for Leonard to have slipped, feel terrible about i

I know this might be a ca-ray-zeee idea but can we like not have a Shenny panic attack every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene together or Jim dares to say that he likes -gasp!- working with Kaley!?

Sheldon does depend too much on Lenny as parental figures, but the ironic thing is that I think Lenny also depend a great deal on Sheldon. They kind of use him to not have to deal with issues in their

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Thanks Sarah, I know I couldn't be the only one, but it was beginning to feel like it.  Maybe we could start a thread for expatriate Shamy fans who feel burned by this development.  A "Leave Amy Alone" thread

I say the same to you :good:, I'm glad to know you share my opinion, because, honestly, I'm pretty much appalled right now, as you said in a previous post, I can't believe they created such a cool character as Amy just to treat her this bad :(

Regarding the new thread you mentioned, I must confess that I thought about it too, maybe only you and me would be there to talk, oh well, and I know some other fans (mostly Lennys :wink:) that would be cordially invited :drinks:

I also think we may agree on considerably more than it seems. When I said 'welcome back, Amy Farrah Fowler as character!' I was expressing my belief that when writers respect a character, they give him/her a journey: obstacles to overcome, a struggle between virtues and vices etc. When the writers carelessly assume that Amy is in the right but

a ) it's hilarious to have Sheldon get his way anyway

b ) Sheldon will eventually realise it and have a teachable moment

that is, to me, a sign that they don't think of Amy as a character to respect and write for. They see her only as a prop for Sheldon's journey. I think it's a sign of regard, in many ways, for a character's flaws to be identified, for the character to be hurt, to learn and move on. I am hoping that what we are seeing is the beginning of Amy exploring what it is that she wants in a relationship- why she broke up with Sheldon and why she wanted to get back together with him.

If it doesn't happen at all, and we just return to Sheldon's Adventures And Also Amy Is There I Guess, then- what's your poison? I'm buying.

You know what? that's exactly what I tought when they started with the break up storyline, that it maybe was the opportunity to get her back as a character, because she was finally free of Sheldon's figurative yoke, because, as much as I could ship Shamy, I can't help but feel that being in a relationship was terribly castrating for her as an independent character (I still remember fondly when, at the beginning of season five, TBBT was once called by some unhappy fans "The Amy Show" :sigh: good times!), because she gradually went from partner in crime to straight man (or worst: mommy/fangirl) of Sheldon, I mean, she started being allowed to be herself only when she interacted with other characters, and when she was with him, she was reduced to the one who rolls her eyes or the one who gets eyes rolled at, and nothing else.

Now, by seeing how they have used her in the development of this storyline (essentially, until now, it has been pretty much a wasted opportunity), I think we need to be cautious in celebrating her comeback as a character, I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I'm afraid they will only leave her sitting there doing basically nothing until poor-little-hurt-Shelly, as magnanimous as he is, decides he had finally 'forgiven' her.

Because what really angers and frustrates me from this new development is not that he rejected her offer, it's the fact that they made her go  and ask him to come back!, I mean, without having sorted/talked the differences that lead her to leave him, by doing that, the issues that legitimately existed between them were glossed over/trivialized by no one else but herself!, now she is not anymore in the position to ask him to treat her better/show her respect because she was the one who showed no respect at all for herself by surrendering and giving him back all control over their relationship. All chance to regain balance seems like a distant dream now. She shoot herself in the foot.

A feel-good episode, with a nice interaction between them, having fun together, a reminder of what was great between them as this past episode was would have been like a dream come true for any shipper, if only it weren't culminated with that awful finale that puts her in total disadvantage again.

 

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And it showed perfectly her immaturity and inexperience.  When she was first introduced she was strong and independent.  The further in love she fell with Sheldon the more she became his shadow, his doormat, etc.  She said he was a flight risk and she was afraid of his rejection.  Now Sheldon is understanding exactly how her fears about that feel and he will be be a better friend and boyfriend because of his better understandings of her past fears.  

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And it showed perfectly her immaturity and inexperience.  When she was first introduced she was strong and independent.  The further in love she fell with Sheldon the more she became his shadow, his doormat, etc.  She said he was a flight risk and she was afraid of his rejection.  Now Sheldon is understanding exactly how her fears about that feel and he will be be a better friend and boyfriend because of his better understandings of her past fears.  

I hear what you're saying , but I actually wouldn't like it.  I don't want him to be kinder to her because he fears losing her, and I would have liked to see her overcome her insecurities and  learn to trust that, though he can sometimes be aloof with her, that he loves and respects her.  This was precisely the outcome that Sheldon fans were dreading before, sniveling lapdog Sheldon.  This just comes with a side dish of humiliated Amy.

 

One of the reasons I had been ok with this split is that I saw it as a way to repair what looked, to me, to be good but flawed relationship.  The problems on Sheldon's end are too obvious to be worth repeating, but on her end the problem was her insecurity.  One of the recurring themes of the show is that all of the characters, save Mary and to some extent Penny, cater to Sheldon's feelings without considering his larger well being.  Leonard in particular, and to some extent the gang "don't ask Sheldon questions like that."  They don't push him or challlenge him.  They let him stagnate, because they're afraid of his affective storms.  Amy started out challenging him, but as she fell more deeply in love she stopped, not altogether, but enough to let him grow complacent.  They both needed to move past this stage, and now I fear they won't.

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I hear what you're saying , but I actually wouldn't like it.  I don't want him to be kinder to her because he fears losing her, and I would have liked to see her overcome her insecurities and  learn to trust that, though he can sometimes be aloof with her, that he loves and respects her.  This was precisely the outcome that Sheldon fans were dreading before, sniveling lapdog Sheldon.  This just comes with a side dish of humiliated Amy.

 

One of the reasons I had been ok with this split is that I saw it as a way to repair what looked, to me, to be good but flawed relationship.  The problems on Sheldon's end are too obvious to be worth repeating, but on her end the problem was her insecurity.  One of the recurring themes of the show is that all of the characters, save Mary and to some extent Penny, cater to Sheldon's feelings without considering his larger well being.  Leonard in particular, and to some extent the gang "don't ask Sheldon questions like that."  They don't push him or challlenge him.  They let him stagnate, because they're afraid of his affective storms.  Amy started out challenging him, but as she fell more deeply in love she stopped, not altogether, but enough to let him grow complacent.  They both needed to move past this stage, and now I fear they won't.

I don't think he's going to be lapdog Sheldon or be kind to her only because he fears losing her.  He said no to her when she wanted to get back together after only one outing.  To me that says he's not doing that.  

I think now that everyone (except Amy) knows about the ring, they also know Sheldon's true feelings about Amy and I think from here on in, they won't let him back track or let him get away with as much as they did before.  I think they're all growing up in that regard.  

I also don't think we'll get lapdog Sheldon with a side dish of humiliated Amy.  This is her time to eat crow now.  And once they've rebuilt a solid friendship again on equal footing, that's when we'll start seeing the sexual tension and they're romantic love for each other (something they didn't have the first time around as friends and something I think is still there now despite the break up) will bubble over. 

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I don't think he's going to be lapdog Sheldon or be kind to her only because he fears losing her.  He said no to he when she wanted to get back together after only one outing.  To me that says he's not doing that.

 This is an excellent point.

 

That being said, I don't see how her "eating crow" isn't humiliating for her.  Particularly when I don't think she did anything wrong.   She was well within her rights to break up with him, he was acting like a towering asshole.  Taking him back with no conditions is humiliating.  

It's why I simply can't ship them any more.  We knew they loved each other, we knew they enjoyed each other's company.  What was missing was the mutual respect that any healthy relationship has.  How do they develop that as friends while she's still mooning over him?  He says he's over her.  Good, stay that way.  Let her do the same.

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I don't think he is over her.  That's the point of his statement "I excel at many things but getting over you is not one of them."  Not only did he not excell at it, he didn't succeed.

And who says he's not going to moon after her?  They made it a point of him asking her about her dates, how many, where she met them and most importantly, if she had sex with any of them.  If he was really over her and wanted to stay just friends and nothing more, ever, he wouldn't have asked or cared.  

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The wording was "...getting over you wasn't one of them."  Past tense.  However, I want to see how all this plays out in the episode before I turn in my Shamy card for good lol.  I'm hanging by a thread at this point.

As far as Sheldon asking about if Amy has slept with anyone and indicating that it would bother him if she had, I can see how she  might read this as him still being interested in her romantically.  She shouldn't have asked to get back together without talking about their issues, but I can see why she thought he had communicated a desire to start things up again.  Unless he just doesn't want to fulfill her romantic needs, while at the same time not wanting her to have her needs met elsewhere.

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 This is an excellent point.

 

That being said, I don't see how her "eating crow" isn't humiliating for her.  Particularly when I don't think she did anything wrong.   She was well within her rights to break up with him, he was acting like a towering asshole.  Taking him back with no conditions is humiliating.  

It's why I simply can't ship them any more.  We knew they loved each other, we knew they enjoyed each other's company.  What was missing was the mutual respect that any healthy relationship has.  How do they develop that as friends while she's still mooning over him?  He says he's over her.  Good, stay that way.  Let her do the same.

Totally agree, that's what bothers me very much of this. She was in her right to break up with him, everything she did during her single phase (kissing and unsatisfactory dates included) was okay because she was, well, single!, besides, he also looked to replace her, so they are even in that respect, now, why the need to make her "eat crow", why does she need to be punished? just becase she hurt him?, well, he hurt her too before!, again, they are even.

I'm angry because I think it's highly unfair for Amy to be the one who needs to be punished now, specially because there had not been proper closure for the issues she rightfully rebelled against, I mean, if Sheldon at least had said something like "Sorry Amy for not having been a good boyfriend for you", well, I would be less angered, but we had nothing of that.

Also, if only Amy have had a good time when she was single, meanwhile Sheldon were the only one seen suffering, one could have said, "well, now it's her time to be responsible of her acts", but she was as miserable as ever!

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and maybe the truth is that Amy feels she can't do better because Sheldon is the one she wants.

She did say he's "Not just my first boyfriend, he’s the best boyfriend".

I think Amy should send Sheldon this video. It speaks perfectly for her.

 

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She was well within her rights to break up with him, he was acting like a towering asshole..

Maybe, if she'd properly explained to him, why she wanted the break, he wouldn't have pestered her.

Amy is his very first girlfriend, and, suddenly, she's turned away from him.

I think he probably needed reassuring, that she wasn't disappearing from his life completely.

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I don't think he is over her.  That's the point of his statement "I excel at many things but getting over you is not one of them."  Not only did he not excell at it, he didn't succeed.

And who says he's not going to moon after her?  They made it a point of him asking her about her dates, how many, where she met them and most importantly, if she had sex with any of them.  If he was really over her and wanted to stay just friends and nothing more, ever, he wouldn't have asked or cared.  

I agree with Rajamon, he did phrase it in the past tense.  Also it's pretty telling that she asked if he was okay and said she only wanted him to be happy, while he was more concerned that someone else had been playing with his toy.

Look, I'm sure the writers intend for us to believe that he isn't really over her.  I'm sure we'll be treated to some longing looks from him, or maybe some more jealousy, maybe a dream sequence(if I were the type to write fan fiction I have an idea for one, but I'm not the type).   But the latest tr indicates that on a conscious level he thinks he is.  He even tells her he's ok.   How can he be ok if he's not over her yet?

 

Can they fix it in such a way that I'll reboard the ship?  I've lost faith that they can.  

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Totally agree, that's what bothers me very much of this. She was in her right to break up with him, everything she did during her single phase (kissing and unsatisfactory dates included) was okay because she was, well, single!, besides, he also looked to replace her, so they are even in that respect, now, why the need to make her "eat crow", why does she need to be punished? just becase she hurt him?, well, he hurt her too before!, again, they are even.

I'm angry because I think it's highly unfair for Amy to be the one who needs to be punished now, specially because there had not been proper closure for the issues she rightfully rebelled against, I mean, if Sheldon at least had said something like "Sorry Amy for not having been a good boyfriend for you", well, I would be less angered, but we had nothing of that.

Also, if only Amy have had a good time when she was single, meanwhile Sheldon were the only one seen suffering, one could have said, "well, now it's her time to be responsible of her acts", but she was as miserable as ever!

Okay, to get that out of the way: I agree with Kathy's posts for the most part but "eating crow" wouldn't be my choice of words. And neither do I see Amy as being punished or humiliated, as you say.

I do see Amy asking him to get back together as a purely emotional reaction. It happens, it's not ideal, but I won't hold it against her. Sheldon made the same mistake earlier and for the most part they are cut from the same cloth (or so the writers think). So it's not surprising she'd mess up sooner or later as well. It makes her human after all.

That said, I also see Sheldon's reaction as absolutely understandable. He's effectively telling her he didn't handle the break up well. And I think it's absolutely fair of him to tell her that for now he'd rather be friends with her. Not to punish her or anything. He isn't cutting her out of his life, in fact he's doing the opposite. But there's no quick fix for their relationship. And I think this is actually a step into the right direction for them because a lot of their earlier conflicts had these quick make ups where things would get back to the status quo without actually working through their underlying issues. And so they'd end up in this cycle of "Sheldon messes up -> Amy gets upset -> Sheldon apologises -> Amy forgives him", rinse and repeat - which is exactly what lead to this break up in the first place.

So yes, it's a painful situation but I do feel the way the characters act makes sense in context. After all this fighting there's finally a truce between them and with them rebuilding their friendship there's also hope of their love blossoming again.

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Okay, to get that out of the way: I agree with Kathy's posts for the most part but "eating crow" wouldn't be my choice of words. And neither do I see Amy as being punished or humiliated, as you say.

I do see Amy asking him to get back together as a purely emotional reaction. It happens, it's not ideal, but I won't hold it against her. Sheldon made the same mistake earlier and for the most part they are cut from the same cloth (or so the writers think). So it's not surprising she'd mess up sooner or later as well. It makes her human after all.

That said, I also see Sheldon's reaction as absolutely understandable. He's effectively telling her he didn't handle the break up well. And I think it's absolutely fair of him to tell her that for now he'd rather be friends with her. Not to punish her or anything. He isn't cutting her out of his life, in fact he's doing the opposite. But there's no quick fix for their relationship. And I think this is actually a step into the right direction for them because a lot of their earlier conflicts had these quick make ups where things would get back to the status quo without actually working through their underlying issues. And so they'd end up in this cycle of "Sheldon messes up -> Amy gets upset -> Sheldon apologises -> Amy forgives him", rinse and repeat - which is exactly what lead to this break up in the first place.

So yes, it's a painful situation but I do feel the way the characters act makes sense in context. After all this fighting there's finally a truce between them and with them rebuilding their friendship there's also hope of their love blossoming again.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying, but the tiny little detail I will never be happy with, is the fact that now Sheldon is the one in the position of the 'forgiver' again, the one who dictates the whole rythm of the relationship AGAIN, without giving her any kind of satisfaction before. I mean, they will be back together once he feels he's ready to be his boyfriend again, just as with all their other developments (commitment, physical intimacy, etc), it's always Sheldon's way. Even now when everything seemed to point that it will be her the one who will have the upper hand for once.

Please tell me April, as a shipper, and as one I recognize for being able to understand Amy's point of view when many others where completeley against her, doesn't that situation gets a bit under your skin?

Amy can't catch a break, she rarely wins, and I think that's extremely unfair, we will never achieve a real balance following that path. But I guess it's my problem for daring to dream about it.

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It's not like it's a zero sum game.  I don't need Amy to have a win, for some sense of artificial balance.  What burns me most is that now he never has to apologize or own up for his own culpability in the breakup.  He hurt her, and that matters.  Now he just takes her back whenever he feels like without any repentance.  That's no way for her to be treated.    I just can't get ok with this.

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It's not like it's a zero sum game.  I don't need Amy to have a win, for some sense of artificial balance.  What burns me most is that now he never has to apologize or own up for his own culpability in the breakup.  He hurt her, and that matters.  Now he just takes her back whenever he feels like without any repentance.  That's no way for her to be treated.    I just can't get ok with this.

It also matters that she hurt him.   No matter how valid and legit her reasons for breaking up with him,  it came with a risk.   There are consequences.  He loves her and it crushed him and he pretty much tells her so when explaining why he just wants to be friends.  But I love this development from Amy because I see the inexperienced girl who is feeling her way through this.   I love to see this impulsive Amy who was hung out with him all day and was like, "Yep.  This is what I want, so I'm gonna get it. "  

Some here talk about balance, but there is more to it than just Amy never gets to win.   There is also this side that Amy is always right here and Sheldon is the Fuck up.  Well,  that's not always true.   I love it when Amy is shown to be wrong,  not because I don't like her character,  but because I love her character.   Amy deserves the right to have a face palm moment,  to mess up, to be presumptuous.   And none of that makes her weak, pathetic or humiliated.  It makes her human.

I also don't think this development excuses any culpability on Sheldon's part,  but I think that's the point here.   I think they had Sheldon doing some growing here and I see hints of it in this TR, but none of it has been addressed.  They need to explore that and I believe Amy will be able to see that once the flood of emotions settles.   Then they can work their way back. 

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Please don't use the "d" word.  I think it's incredibly offensive, like calling a woman the "c" word.

The problem with "getting Amy a new boyfriend" is that they're not telling the story to suit your sensibilities or your opinion of Sheldon, which is pretty harsh.  The thing is, she's tried dating others and has apparently decided that she DOESN'T WANT a new boyfriend, no matter what you want for her.  I think you're oversimplifying Sheldon's qualities and only looking at the negative.  He certainly does have redeeming qualities or he wouldn't have the group of friends that he does have, especially Leonard and Amy.

And your assessment of Amy is oversimplified, as well, IMO.  I don't think it's "the truth", and maybe the truth is that Amy feels she can't do better because Sheldon is the one she wants.  "I've had the rest, yes, and that is the one for me..."

Well yeah that is true, Sheldon being single well give him a lot of time on his hands haha. Look I can see Sheldon really has strong feelings for Amy, I just don't think IMO he well ever be capable of the change Amy wants for him. I mean seriously they are what in their 5th year of their relationship, I know its slow, glacier pace. But boy snails have moved faster lol. I just wish the writers would make their minds up, have them together romantically or not, it is simple as that. They are kinda more like Ross and Rachel then Leonard and Penny are tbh. A strong connection and bond, but a lack of trust and understanding, and depth that Lenny have. So I actually see them pulling a Ross and Rachel with Shamy, and they get back together in the final episode. Irony is Leonard and Penny married and living together, their story is now very similar to Marshall and Lilly, and Monica and Chandler. Shamy have more in common with Ross and Rachel currently

What change is it you think Amy wants for him?  Sheldon loves Amy and Amy loves Sheldon, whatever the difficulties may be for them.  What makes you think the writers haven't made up their minds about S/A?  They're still working on getting back together--they've barely started!  Just because they hadn't yet had sex doesn't mean they weren't romantically involved or that they won't go back to being romantically involved again, even without sex.

Why do they have to be like Ross/Rachel or L/P or like anyone else?  There's no required pattern for them to follow--that's always been their strength, in fact, that they don't follow the typical pattern, especially when it comes to sex.  I don't think there's really a lack of trust or understanding.  Maybe for just this moment and they work on reconnecting, but overall, no.  They have a good sense of trust--so much so that Sheldon has indeed changed as a result of Amy's influence in his life.

I hate all this stupid "Friends" comparisons.  TBBT writers are not imitating Friends, even if there are some similarities.  There are similarities in many relationship stories, since we're all human beings with human motivations and failures.  The writers don't have to look to Friends to come up with their own story material.

Phant please don't tell people what they can post, and what they can't, you do that a lot.

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Yeah, I understand what you are saying, but the tiny little detail I will never be happy with, is the fact that now Sheldon is the one in the position of the 'forgiver' again, the one who dictates the whole rythm of the relationship AGAIN, without giving her any kind of satisfaction before. I mean, they will be back together once he feels he's ready to be his boyfriend again, just as with all their other developments (commitment, physical intimacy, etc), it's always Sheldon's way. Even now when everything seemed to point that it will be her the one who will have the upper hand for once.

Please tell me April, as a shipper, and as one I recognize for being able to understand Amy's point of view when many others where completeley against her, doesn't that situation gets a bit under your skin?

Amy can't catch a break, she rarely wins, and I think that's extremely unfair, we will never achieve a real balance following that path. But I guess it's my problem for daring to dream about it.

Well, to be fair, we don't know how this will play out. Could they write Sheldon as a self-serving egomaniac who uses the situation to his advantage like he did before the break up? They could. Do I think they will? I'm cautiously optimistic that they won't. So far the writers have done a tremendous job of putting Sheldon through the emotional wringer this season and it'd be such a waste if after all of this his and Amy's relationship went back to the same old dynamic that caused the break up in the first place.

I do think that keeping them as friends is their beta test, so to say. I always thought that their friendship is the strong foundation of their relationship so if they manage to fix that they can go forward from there.

And yes, my heart aches for Amy (especially with Mayim's blog post about the staircase scene in mind from the other day). It's not an easy situation to be in. But again, I do think this can be a chance for her as well even if it's something she didn't completely chose herself. I don't think that this means she has to beg for scraps of affection or whatever. If the trip to the aquarium is any indication that'll be part of the deal - they have a chance to enjoy each other's company again without any pressure and rediscover what made them fall in love in the first place.

Bottom line: I understand your worries. I really do. This can go horribly wrong. But as I've said through all of this, I do think this is a very carefully crafted arc for both of them. So far the writers didn't disappoint me and with that I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. And yes, this all can come crushing down with the next TR but that's the risk I'm willing to take right now.

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I'm not quoting anyone, the quote box dropped in and can't delete

 

Reading through this thread, some of you really have a downer on Sheldon and his relationship with Amy, the way I saw it was that there were definitely more ups than downs

Maybe like some of the other posters on here who ship other relationships on the show, I choose to ignore some of the issues because I enjoyed the shamy relationship

 

Edited by rachelshamyfan

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Reading through this thread, some of you really have a downer on Sheldon and his relationship with Amy, the way I saw it was that there were definitely more ups than downs

Maybe like some of the other posters on here who ship other relationships on the show, I choose to ignore some of the issues because I enjoyed the shamy relationship

I personally also think their relationship had more ups than downs or else I wouldn't think it's worth saving/fixing. It's just that a break up like this puts a magnifying glass over all the little things that didn't work so well.

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Yeah, I understand what you are saying, but the tiny little detail I will never be happy with, is the fact that now Sheldon is the one in the position of the 'forgiver' again, the one who dictates the whole rythm of the relationship AGAIN, without giving her any kind of satisfaction before. I mean, they will be back together once he feels he's ready to be his boyfriend again, just as with all their other developments (commitment, physical intimacy, etc), it's always Sheldon's way. Even now when everything seemed to point that it will be her the one who will have the upper hand for once.

Please tell me April, as a shipper, and as one I recognize for being able to understand Amy's point of view when many others where completeley against her, doesn't that situation gets a bit under your skin?

Amy can't catch a break, she rarely wins, and I think that's extremely unfair, we will never achieve a real balance following that path. But I guess it's my problem for daring to dream about it.

I think one "good" thing the writers did so far is that it is difficult at any point to say that one of them is completely right and the other completely wrong. They have both reasons to act like they are acting and they are both making the other suffer, even if not on purpose. Everybody knows that Sheldon struggles with changes, it is not easy for him so, even if Amy doesn't know the depth of his pain in this six months, even if she doesn't know about the ring and his meltdown, it was almost impossible that he could say yes to being his bf again, after he has just reached an equilibrium in his life. He was never hurt so deep and, even if Amy had her own reasons to do what she did, even if hurting the other person is inevitable when a break up is not mutual, she didn't think for a second to rebuilt their relationship and trust before jumping in this new bf/gf situation. To me, it looked like she thought that the break up was just her business, she was the only one to have to figure out something, and after having (or, as a matter of fact, not having) figured it out, she could come back without consequences. There are always consequences...I feel for her, really, and I am with you when you said that she can't get a break. The point of that phone call was, for me, just to make it clear that she cares for him and she loves him. The audience saw very little of all her pain during this period, for me the stairwell scene was so deep for Mayim's acting, she crushed it, but apart from that we didn't see much more that anger (and she had all the reasons to be angry) from her side. It was a writers' choice, of course, as it was a writers' choice the phone call,  she is a secondary character and we don't need to know much about her. The more I think to this friend-zone, the more I dislike it, because it is not balanced at all. When Lenny agreed to be friends, after they broke up in S.3, they both were on the same page, Leonard was the one who suffered more, but he didn't ask for a second chance, he knew it was over and willing to built a new kind of relationship. Here clearly it is not the case,  she will be the one to suffer and Sheldon is the one  who now thinks that his own feelings are the only ones that matter, he doesn't seem to understand how difficult it may have been for Amy to "come back" and how difficult it may be for her to be his friend. He wants her in his life, at his own conditions, take it or leave it. I would never advice a dear friend of mine to jump in this kind of "friendship" with her ex, really, but of course she will do it, she is there to be a secondary character and to tell Sheldon's story.

Edited by mirs1

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It also matters that she hurt him.

If you hurt someone doing something that, we all seem to agree, she had every right to do, why is she responsible for that?  How could she knock some sense into him without hurting him?  She's tried to tell him eight ways to Sunday that she needed more from him.  He was satisfied with the status quo, so he only did as much as he thought necessary to maintain it.   

 

Her crime in my eyes is that she let the whole situation go on too long.  He, and apparently a substantial chunk of viewers, felt cold cocked.  That sucks, but it's the natural consequence of only paying attention to Sheldon and what Sheldon needs.  If he ever really looked at her and listened to her he could have seen this winding up a mile away.  Sheldon requires special handling, true, but she thought she was giving him that by waiting passively.  He didn't see it as waiting passively, he saw it as acquiescence.  That's why he "strongly disagree[d]" when she said she'd been patient.  Well, he was wrong, and they're equally at fault for that.

 

What they are not equally at fault for is his horrible behavior at the beginning of the season.  It is the entire reason this didn't get resolved.  We see clearly now, how little she really wanted.  Like so much of his bad behavior on the show, it's going to get swept under the rug because he has a sad.  Well, I may have to watch it, because I still love Amy and the other characters, but I don't have to like it.  When it comes to Amy, this Nastiness->Petulance->SadFace->Sheldon Wins cycle has to end.  

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If you hurt someone doing something that, we all seem to agree, she had every right to do, why is she responsible for that?  How could she knock some sense into him without hurting him?  She's tried to tell him eight ways to Sunday that she needed more from him.  He was satisfied with the status quo, so he only did as much as he thought necessary to maintain it.   

 

Her crime in my eyes is that she let the whole situation go on too long.  He, and apparently a substantial chunk of viewers, felt cold cocked.  That sucks, but it's the natural consequence of only paying attention to Sheldon and what Sheldon needs.  If he ever really looked at her and listened to her he could have seen this winding up a mile away.  Sheldon requires special handling, true, but she thought she was giving him that by waiting passively.  He didn't see it as waiting passively, he saw it as acquiescence.  That's why he "strongly disagree[d]" when she said she'd been patient.  Well, he was wrong, and they're equally at fault for that.

 

What they are not equally at fault for is his horrible behavior at the beginning of the season.  It is the entire reason this didn't get resolved.  We see clearly now, how little she really wanted.  Like so much of his bad behavior on the show, it's going to get swept under the rug because he has a sad.  Well, I may have to watch it, because I still love Amy and the other characters, but I don't have to like it.  When it comes to Amy, this Nastiness->Petulance->SadFace->Sheldon Wins cycle has to end.  

She isn't necessarily responsible for his pain,  but his pain is a consequence of her actions, no matter how justified her actions may have been.   And the same goes for the current situation.   Sheldon did the right thing here.   That doesn't make Amy's heartbreak any less.   That is the consequence for his actions.  These things don't happen in a bubble.   

And I'm sorry,  I just don't see Sheldon as winning anything here.   He lost big time.   He acted like an ass at the beginning the season and he lost her.   How did he win?   And how is this current situation an example of your supposed "Sheldon Wins Cycle" anyway?   There was no nastiness, petulance or any of that here.  I just don't see Sheldon being wrong here. 

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If you hurt someone doing something that, we all seem to agree, she had every right to do, why is she responsible for that?  How could she knock some sense into him without hurting him?  She's tried to tell him eight ways to Sunday that she needed more from him.  He was satisfied with the status quo, so he only did as much as he thought necessary to maintain it.   

 

Her crime in my eyes is that she let the whole situation go on too long.  He, and apparently a substantial chunk of viewers, felt cold cocked.  That sucks, but it's the natural consequence of only paying attention to Sheldon and what Sheldon needs.  If he ever really looked at her and listened to her he could have seen this winding up a mile away.  Sheldon requires special handling, true, but she thought she was giving him that by waiting passively.  He didn't see it as waiting passively, he saw it as acquiescence.  That's why he "strongly disagree[d]" when she said she'd been patient.  Well, he was wrong, and they're equally at fault for that.

 

What they are not equally at fault for is his horrible behavior at the beginning of the season.  It is the entire reason this didn't get resolved.  We see clearly now, how little she really wanted.  Like so much of his bad behavior on the show, it's going to get swept under the rug because he has a sad.  Well, I may have to watch it, because I still love Amy and the other characters, but I don't have to like it.  When it comes to Amy, this Nastiness->Petulance->SadFace->Sheldon Wins cycle has to end.  

Agree with all your post, regarding the bolded part: Yes, it shocks me how little she needed... actually no, I'm not surprised, when I read complaints about her trying to "change him too much", I always knew that wasn't true, all she needed was a bit more of kindness and reassurance that she was really important for him (this part is still seriously lacking, that's why I can't really comprehend her intent of brushing off everything and get back to him like that, but I guess, as others had said, it was an impulssive reaction out of her love for him)

Because if we think about it, if he had given her a couple days as she asked, there wouldn't have been such big confrontation, if he hadn't approached her with insults, there wouldn't have been any break up, if he had tried to kindly talk with her again before going into full 'moving on' mode, they would have talked and she would have forgiven him sooner, if he hadn't told her about him asking other women out, she probably wouldn't have started dating and he would have spared himself 'the horror!' of seeing her kissing other guy.

But yeah, I know I'm forgetting that everything was actually her fault, because, for once, she refused to be all patience and clarifications with him, ignoring that her real role is not lover/girlfriend, it's mother/teacher/pursuer. Silly her!, how could she forget that she's not someone deserving to be pursued?

Edited by sarah7
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