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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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Not necessarily, maybe now that Sheldon feels he has actually been able to make it without her he will feel even stronger in his wits and if he ever decides to take her back, he will be even more disrespectful, cruel and indifferent than ever before. With the writers making Amy stoop to such levels of self disrespect why wouldn't Sheldon actually stomp all over her? She seems to be up (down?)  for it

So this is her time to eat crow now? Because of course she hasn't eaten enough shit  from Sheldon in the 5 years they were together, right. If things keep going this way for her let's call the Guinness Book of World records, and let's nominate her for Shit-eating World Champion. Yay!!!!!!!!!!!

And you never will...

I see Sheldon being wrong plenty.   My comment was about him turning her down in this last taping because they really didn't solve anything.   Do you believe he was wrong to turn her down? 

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Lenny got screwed, not just with the wedding, but with the events leading up to and the aftermath. I don't think that it is a terrible idea in theory for Leonard to have slipped, feel terrible about i

I know this might be a ca-ray-zeee idea but can we like not have a Shenny panic attack every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene together or Jim dares to say that he likes -gasp!- working with Kaley!?

Sheldon does depend too much on Lenny as parental figures, but the ironic thing is that I think Lenny also depend a great deal on Sheldon. They kind of use him to not have to deal with issues in their

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What would have happened if he had said yes when none of their problems leading to the break-up have been at least talked about?

I think I start to understand Sarah7's point of view here. But I think I can say she could have been even more upset or worried if Sheldon has accepted to take her back at that moment.

 

There are still things that need to be worked upon, getting back together now was too early.

Now remains the question of " but why did she ask to get back together after only one afternoon? " There are really a lot of hypotheses, one cannot answer for sure. But I'm not sure the writers want to make Amy a doormat again, after all she also had some issues with herself to come to terms with and just accepting to get back with him just after an afternoon just says that she acted just on the spur of the moment, and she certainly didn't solve her own problems.

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What would have happened if he had said yes when none of their problems leading to the break-up have been at least talked about?

I think I start to understand Sarah7's point of view here. But I think I can say she could have been even more upset or worried if Sheldon has accepted to take her back at that moment.

 

There are still things that need to be worked upon, getting back together now was too early.

Now remains the question of " but why did she ask to get back together after only one afternoon? " There are really a lot of hypotheses, one cannot answer for sure. But I'm not sure the writers want to make Amy a doormat again, after all she also had some issues with herself to come to terms with and just accepting to get back with him just after an afternoon just says that she acted just on the spur of the moment, and she certainly didn't solve her own problems.

One reason I think she asked to get back after one afternoon together was most likely that it reminded her of all the good times they had together (yes they had good times doubters) I don't think she deserves to suffer the consequences of Sheldon saying no though like some have said

This is their first properly relationship for both of them and mistakes have happened, hopefully the mistakes will be learned from

 

I accept that Sheldon was probably right in saying no, he's protecting himself from further hurt, especially when they haven't really talked about just why Amy wanted to break up and if this new friendship zone works then great

 

 

 

Edited by rachelshamyfan
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that's why I try not to post in the Shamy thread anymore. I literally started questioning like do I sound like a nympho to other people maybe? Cause when I say Amy has the right to be frustrated of having no sex (sex meaning also hugs, not-just-date-night kisses, etc) in her life literally no one agrees with me.

She has every right to be sexually frustrated. She's in love with her boyfriend and has been with him for a long time. Of course she wants to sleep with him. She's just being human.

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What would have happened if he had said yes when none of their problems leading to the break-up have been at least talked about?

I think I start to understand Sarah7's point of view here. But I think I can say she could have been even more upset or worried if Sheldon has accepted to take her back at that moment.

 

There are still things that need to be worked upon, getting back together now was too early.

Now remains the question of " but why did she ask to get back together after only one afternoon? " There are really a lot of hypotheses, one cannot answer for sure. But I'm not sure the writers want to make Amy a doormat again, after all she also had some issues with herself to come to terms with and just accepting to get back with him just after an afternoon just says that she acted just on the spur of the moment, and she certainly didn't solve her own problems.

First of all, I don't want him to have said yes, but I don't want either that she had asked for it in the first place. I would have preferred that both have agreed in been friends withouth any of them being rejected, or to simply see them continue having friend-dates without putting a label to their relationship, much as they did after their first meeting, when everybody saw them as a couple without even having officialized the relationship.

Now, what would it have been so bad about Sheldon accepting her offer? It would have shown how both missed each other so much and doesn't mean they will never be able to solve their problems, and at least that way they would be in even ground for real (unlike now)

Let me explain, let's suppose they both agree to get back together in the spur of the moment. We will have a couple angst-free episodes, they are shown interacting again and as a part of the gang, since they both have experienced what is like to be separated, they would be cautious in the way they treat each other (as in their friends-date) but their still not solved issues and the pain they went through during their separation will keep causing some awkard situations (it would have even be suitable for comedic purposes), then in one given moment, Sheldon commits another mistake reminiscent of the flash comment, Amy tells him he's doing it again, he freaks out a little in fear, saying for the first time to her something along the lines of not being a good boyfriend (my memory could be failing me, but I think she had never heard him expressing his fears and doubts regarding that), seeing him that vulnerable she calms down, eases him about the bad boyfriend thing and the scenary is set for that delayed heart to heart conversation (they don't even have to show it to us if that's not the style of the show, we will knew they finally had it)

So, that's it, as I see it, Sheldon accepting her offer doesn't sound that bad to me at the end. As I said before, I'm much more worried about Amy being hurt after the rejection, because I don't see it as very favorable scenary for them to solve their problems and be happy again, all the contrary, I see it as a perfect breeding ground for more angst and misunderstandings.

Edited by sarah7
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I think lots of posts here are (at least implicitly) assuming that it's Sheldon (or the show through Sheldon) who has somehow done a number on Amy, reduced her sense of self-worth through constant rejection, made her feel insecure, repellent or unlovable, because he hasn't obliged her with a good knee-trembler the first time she said she wanted it- or even because he was uncomfortable discussing the subject of sex.

And I think a number of factors contribute to this:

a ) One: Sheldon's-shall we say difficult?- personality. Sheldon is arrogant and haughty and frequently unpleasant, so it's easy to say 'well, he must be wrong. That arsehole hasn't been right about an emotional situation since ever.'

b ) Two: Sheldon's tendency to lash out at Amy and send her mixed messages- especially in Season Seven, when he kept bringing up the issue of sex and accusing Amy of having sex on the brain or whatever.

c ) Three: A Man Is Not A Virgin. Unfortunately, our culture- and occasionally the show- tends to lapse into this sort of thinking. It may be hiiiiii-larious to constantly deny Amy sexual gratification, but the show mostly assumes that she is in the right, and that Sheldon's anxiety is contemptible. You're a man, dammit, and you have sex on tap, pretty much! Do you know how lucky you are? Drop trou and give her a good seeing-to! What do you mean, you're not comfortable?! You're a man! Priapism is your constant state, and even if it's not, you tell everyone it is!

d ) Four: Even putting aside the sex thing, the show assumes that Amy is basically in the right because she wants the conventional things. And she has every right- every right- to want them. Here's the catch: Sheldon, too, has every right- every right- not to. Because sometimes (see point ( c )) A Man Is A Virgin. And sometimes A Man Is Not a Hand Holding, Fancy Dinners Type. However much the species may depend on Fancy Dinners and Hand Holding and (certainly) Sex, Sheldon is not obligated to provide it if he is not comfortable, however much Amy wants it from him. Unfortunately, we can tend to forget that. She only wants the usual things! She's not a monster or a nympho for wanting them! Sheldon Lee Cooper, you are letting the species down!

The problem with this view of the matter, though, is that it ignores:

e ) Five: Amy's options. Amy had, and has, options, when it was identified that she wanted sex and romance, and Sheldon did not, or didn't want to provide them at the pace she wanted.

i) Walk out and seek emotional and physical intimacy elsewhere.

ii) Figure that it wasn't a dealbreaker and stay

iii) Initially figure that it wasn't a dealbreaker, but realise it was, and tell Sheldon. Whereupon they could either wait for Sheldon to work on his issues (and Amy could leave if it was getting too difficult), or Amy could seek physical intimacy elsewhere- a proposal Sheldon could either accept or reject.

iv) Or Amy could apparently acquiesce to option (iii), but attempt several times to subvert it through overt pressure, trickery or manipulation.

.... and I think we know which one she chose- or rather the show had her choose.

Obviously Sheldon has a massive role to play in all this (see especially point (b )), but I think lots of us tend to behave as though Sheldon is some sort of malevolent god, toying sadistically with poor, plucky, Amy, who is wearing him down with her devotion, battling him with her poor puny human weapons, while being constantly worn down and beaten in spirit by the trials she is subjected to. And.... really? Because:

f ) Six: The Double Standard hies into view again: phanta regularly brought up a thought experiment: what if Sheldon and Amy's genders were reversed? Would we be tittering pleasurably at Amy's attempts to pressure or manipulate Sheldon into sex? Would we be so indignant at Sheldon's sending mixed messages? If it were Amy experiencing doubts about sex, vacillating and lashing out, I think we would have more sympathy. If we saw her oblivious to her boyfriend's attempts at seduction, we would feel uncomfortable at the situation and urge her to say no more firmly- and yell at her boyfriend to take 'no' for an answer. Understand me, I am not saying that Amy is solely culpable here or anything like that. I maintain that Sheldon was being- not a clit-tease, exactly (ahem)- but increasingly erratic and difficult to read in Season Seven while his anxieties about intimacy seemed to be at their nastiest. Still, I think that there is a bit of a double standard in our culture, and female characters are treated as adorably ballsy or spunky or go-girl for behaviour that that would make us really uncomfortable in male characters. And that double standard does not feel like feminism, to me- it feels like patting female characters on the head and saying 'oh, you. Your adorable little sins can't hurt us!'

g ) Seven: Do we know that Amy is indeed beaten down and insecure about her own worth or whatever? Do we know that she feels rejected and unlovable because Sheldon, specifically, lashes out and sends mixed messages? Not only do we have a fair amount of recent evidence that Sheldon finds Amy sexually attractive (so pretty she gave him a panic attack in the Prom episode, everything about his body language during their kiss in the S8 finale), Sheldon has never- ever- indicated that his issues with sex are anything but his own internal problems. But, sure, sure, that doesn't stop people from feeling insecure, especially if they are as inexperienced as Amy is. Even so- has Amy ever said or indicated that she feels unlovable because she hasn't boned Sheldon yet? She may, in her inexperience, think that sexual experience makes you a grown-up, but that is not the same thing. The show has been careful to indicate that she gets plenty of male attention. Even Dave 'I Heart Sheldon Cooper' gave Amy a few nice enough dates to end with a kiss, before he blew it with her. Anything we have heard from Amy herself suggests that she knows she looks good, and thinks shes Da Bomb. And good for her. If Sheldon is trying to break her, he needs to step up his game, what?

h ) Eight: That is, if Sheldon is trying to break her. I get really disturbed by views of the relationship where people talk as though the two principals are locked in some sort of danse macabre, scrapping desperately for a momentary advantage. If the only thing that keeps Sheldon honest is fear of losing her, what the hell sort of relationship is that? Wouldn't we prefer them to love each other as they are in a relationship, and walk out if they cannot?

i ) Nine: That said, I really do hope that if they start a relationship it is on an equal footing. By which I do not mean a power differential, but that they want the same things and communicate fully and respectfully.

Edited by wowbagger
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or Amy could seek physical intimacy elsewhere- a proposal Sheldon could either accept or reject.

Actually, a proposal he, many moons ago, sought to help her fulfill.

You're a man, dammit, and you have sex on tap, pretty much! Do you know how lucky you are? Drop trou and give her a good seeing-to! What do you mean, you're not comfortable?! You're a man! Priapism is your constant state, and even if it's not, you tell everyone it is!

I've noticed this, quite a lot, over the years. All men are supposed to desire all women, all of the time.

If a woman turns a man down, she has high standards, or she simply doesn't fancy him, but if a man turns a woman down, there's something wrong with him.

I once heard a woman, who had tried to chat up a man, but had been turned down, inform her friends that he's "obviously gay".

It didn't seem to occur to her that, maybe, he just doesn't fancy you!

Edited by Stephen Hawking

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 (...)

the show assumes (...)

I know you will think it's unfair for me to reduce your lengthy post to this single phrase, sorry, but I think here precisely lies the heart of a lot of problems.

I often are reminded about thinking in Sheldon's situation and how hard things are for him as well, and I honestly sometimes end up feeling as an horrible person for not being able to see it that clearly. And I feel constantly lectured about respecting his rights as a man who doesn't have it easy for his many issues, fears, phobias and troubles with sex and intimacy. That's why I can perfectly understand Shamyyyy's uneasiness for the response she gets every time she says she can get Amy's feelings.

But then, I remember precisely that maybe it's because the show assumes a lot of things, and the first and most important one is that yes, Sheldon is wrong. I mean, do you really think they put all issues Sheldon have with intimacy as a some form of advocacy for asexuality and the rights of the people who are not interested in sex or romance by nature? Specially when we all know the most probable thing is that sooner of later he will cave in and will become a sexual being.I venture to say they considere his aversion for sex as one more of his annoying treats.

I'll venture to say they think yes, sheldon is wrong for not wanting sex, he is wrong for not giving Amy romance, he is wrong for being so stubborn and refuse to behave 'like a man'.

Do I think they are right?, do I support Amy more than him because I also think they are right and Sheldon is terribly wrong? Am I also some kind of sex-obsessed person who can't understand why anyone could find difficult, undesirable or off-putting such blissful activity? I'm not going to speak here about my personal life, but I can definitely tell you that I could identify much more with Sheldon's attitude than with any other of the characters of the show regarding sex (I would say minus Amy, because she is the only other virgin of the series, so she is curious and eager about it, but I think she can't have a real opinion on the issue yet, right?)

However, leaving my personal experience aside and also my own ideas of what is correct and whatnot, I can see that the writers intention is to finally demonstrate that Sheldon was wrong all along (do you think that when he finally does it, he will say: "Boy, I was right, this coitus thing is such a downer", I will even say that there's a chance he will become a horndog, at least for a while, and that's why I can't judge others for thinking the same.

Now, does that mean that I'm telling everyone who is speaking in favor of Sheldon in this respect to shut up, to let themselves go and blindy follow and celebrate what the writers have to tell us? of course not! please, analyze, support and speak all you want, at the end in practice and in real life I will agree with you much more than with those who simply say Sheldon should stop being a sissy and give Amy the night of her life, but please, let's not make people feel bad for the simple reason of agreeing with what the show is actually telling them.

 

 

Edited by sarah7
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I know you will think it's unfair for me to reduce your lengthy post to this single phrase, sorry,

Hee! No, abbreviate away! At least you didn't mangle it the way marketing departments do for terrible films: 'This film is an appalling desecration of the legacy of classics like Kubrick's 'The Shining'' becomes 'This film..................is.......................................like Kubrick's 'The Shining''.

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She has every right to be sexually frustrated. She's in love with her boyfriend and has been with him for a long time. Of course she wants to sleep with him. She's just being human.

Of course she has every right to be frustrated.   I think most people would be.  My point on the sex thing has always been that just because she is frustrated doesn't mean that he should be expected to have sex with her even if isn't ready. 

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However, leaving my personal experience aside and also my own ideas of what is correct and whatnot, I can see that the writers intention is to finally demonstrate that Sheldon was wrong all along (do you think that when he finally does it, he will say: "Boy, I was right, this coitus thing is such a downer", I will even say that there's a chance he will become a horndog, at least for a while, and that's why I can't judge others for thinking the same.

....yes, and I sincerely hope that both he and Amy will enjoy coitus. But how does that make him automatically at fault to have anxiety about it? You can enjoy all sorts of things that made you anxious before you took the plunge. Sex is a prime example of this sort of experience. So is any extreme sport. The fact that you come to enjoy it doesn't mean that you weren't entitled to your anxiety, or even that it wasn't justified (as I hope it will not be in this case). I'm sorry, i simply don't understand how 'Eh, he'll like it' automatically nullifies 'He has worries about it'.

I often are reminded about thinking in Sheldon's situation and how hard things are for him as well, and I honestly sometimes end up feeling as an horrible person for not being able to see it that clearly. And I feel constantly lectured about respecting his rights as a man who doesn't have it easy for his many issues, fears, phobias and troubles with sex and intimacy. That's why I can perfectly understand Shamyyyy's uneasiness for the response she gets every time she says she can get Amy's feelings.
.............................................
Now, does that mean that I'm telling everyone who is speaking in favor of Sheldon in this respect to shut up, to let themselves go and blindy follow and celebrate what the writers have to tell us? of course not! please, analyze, support and speak all you want, at the end in practice and in real life I will agree with you much more than with those who simply say Sheldon should stop being a sissy and give Amy the night of her life, but please, let's not make people feel bad for the simple reason of agreeing with what the show is actually saying them.

I am, of course, sorry that you feel lectured, or that shamyy feels she can't speak up in any part or parts of the forum. Nobody should feel that way. 

But then, I remember precisely that maybe it's because the show assumes a lot of things, and the first and most important one is that yes, Sheldon is wrong. I mean, do you really think they put all issues Sheldon have with intimacy as a some form of advocacy for asexuality and the rights of the people who are not interested in sex or romance by nature? Specialy when we all know the most probable thing is that sooner of later he will cave in and will become a sexual being.I venture to say they considere his aversion for sex as one more of his annoying treats.

I'll venture to say they think yes, sheldon is wrong for not wanting sex, he is wrong for not giving Amy romance, he is wrong for being so stubborn and refuse to behave 'like a man'.

And that's the nub, no? You're willing to go along with the show' assumption, because it tallies with your views, at least in part? I don't think the show is advocating for the rights of any particular group, but we all have the right to either like or not like what the show is selling. And just because the show is selling a certain default emotional standpoint (or we think it is), doesn't mean we have to agree. What if the show suddenly switched its stance and said that it is Amy's job to endure, socialise Sheldon and take whatever he dishes out? Because she is more enlightened and it is her job? The show flirts perilously with this idea quite often. Are we meant to nod along with that?

 

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....yes, and I sincerely hope that both he and Amy will enjoy coitus. But how does that make him automatically at fault to have anxiety about it? You can enjoy all sorts of things that made you anxious before you took the plunge. Sex is a prime example of this sort of experience. So is any extreme sport. The fact that you come to enjoy it doesn't mean that you weren't entitled to your anxiety, or even that it wasn't justified (as I hope it will not be in this case). I'm sorry, i simply don't understand how 'Eh, he'll like it' automatically nullifies 'He has worries about it'.

I am, of course, sorry that you feel lectured, or that shamyy feels she can't speak up in any part or parts of the forum. Nobody should feel that way. 

 

And that's the nub, no? You're willing to go along with the show' assumption, because it tallies with your views, at least in part? I don't think the show is advocating for the rights of any particular group, but we all have the right to either like or not like what the show is selling. And just because the show is selling a certain default emotional standpoint (or we think it is), doesn't mean we have to agree. What if the show suddenly switched its stance and said that it is Amy's job to endure, socialise Sheldon and take whatever he dishes out? Because she is more enlightened and it is her job? The show flirts perilously with this idea quite often. Are we meant to nod along with that?

 

 

I don't know if I didn't explain myself right, but I said exactly the contrary, I'm not willing at all to go along with the show's assumptions, their point of view doesn't tally with my views in any part, actually, I'm radically opposed to them. And I totally think we all have the right to dislike what they are telling us and express it, after all, that's also for what places like this forum exist (heck!, I'm sure at least 90% of my scarce posts had been to complain about something!)

I never said you have to nod and play along their game, I literally said: "Now, does that mean that I'm telling everyone who is speaking in favor of Sheldon in this respect to shut up, to let themselves go and blindy follow and celebrate what the writers have to tell us? of course not! please, analyze, support and speak all you want"

What I was saying is that we are completely entitled to express our views on what is happening in the show, but what we can't do is to apply said views to support an argument that the show is not supporting itself.

For example, according to my views, no woman should endure what Amy have endured for Sheldon, in real life, at the first big showing of his lack of respect, I personally would be out, and if I saw one of my friends in such situation, I would advise her to run away as fast as possible. However, I see the great majority of shippers want them together, and now that they are separated can't wait for them to get together again, because the situation, as implied by the show is that, despite his behaviour that indicates the contrary many times, Sheldon loves her and ultimately will be her happiness.

That's why, despite my personal views, I can't come and tell those who say Sheldon should cave in already and give Amy sex and romance that they are terrible wrong because in real life an asexual/afraid of sex person would be terrified and heavily traumatized for being in that situation, because what the show is implying is that the day he finally does it, everything will be fine and he will be happy and will enjoy it immensely.

Can you understand now what I'm trying to say?

Edited by sarah7

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I don't know if I didn't explain myself right, but I said exactly the contrary, I'm not willing at all to go along with the show's assumptions, their point of view doesn't tally with my views in any part, actually, I'm radically opposed to them. And I totally think we all have the right to dislike what they are telling us and express it, after all, that's also for what places like this forum exist (heck!, I'm sure at least 90% of my scarce posts had been to complain about something!)

No, you expressed yourself perfectly well. What I meant to say when I said 'willing to go with it', that you rejected arguments about the validity of Sheldon's anxieties about sex (while allowing other people their feelings, I did get that) because the show's perspective seemed to be that Sheldon should buck up and get over himself. Essentially, while you may completely get that other people have opposing views and do not begrudge them, you do not believe it is a valid argument to say 'Well, it's all right, surely, if Sheldon doesn't want sex or traditional romance', because the show doesn't seem to agree a lot of the time. And I was saying 'Well, yes, but that may be because, in this instance, you agree with the show that Sheldon should buck up and get over it, because he'll be fine.' 

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No, you expressed yourself perfectly well. What I meant to say when I said 'willing to go with it', that you rejected arguments about the validity of Sheldon's anxieties about sex (while allowing other people their feelings, I did get that) because the show's perspective seemed to be that Sheldon should buck up and get over himself. Essentially, while you may completely get that other people have opposing views and do not begrudge them, you do not believe it is a valid argument to say 'Well, it's all right, surely, if Sheldon doesn't want sex or traditional romance', because the show doesn't seem to agree a lot of the time. And I was saying 'Well, yes, but that may be because, in this instance, you agree with the show that Sheldon should buck up and get over it, because he'll be fine.' 

 

Ok, first of all, once again: No, I don't agree with the show about Sheldon having to buck up and get over it, just as I don't agree about many other things the show depicts.

Secondly, the argument you mentioned is a perfectly vailid one, but it's not more valid that the others that say the contrary, it's just that the one you mention comes more from a realistic point of view and the second one is much more in tune with the reality of the show, they are just two  valid although different arguments that come from two different universes, as I see it.

And, let's be real, I'm a total supporter of the right of every person (real or imaginary :wink:) to live and excercise their sexuality (or the lack of it) the way they prefer, but it's not like all the fans that support him using that argument do it because they want him to remain asexual, I think it's evident that the majority of shippers want Shamy to have sex at one point during their relationship (one just have to compare how many fanfiction about Platonic!Shamy could exist, as oppossed to the vast number of NC-17 rated ones), but when discussing the relationship, they tend to speak about it as if the right way to have it is almost completely in Sheldon's terms.

Because since you mentioned the thing about double standards, I totally agree it's not okay to tell Sheldon to buck up and get over it, but is it okay to tell Amy to buck up and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait...? (actually, that's what she had been doing for years)

I've always said that they should have shown Sheldon not only saying he was not ruling out sex, or that he thinks about it as a possibility, but also to show him actually working on reaching that point, by his own will, at least once, in order to balance things better. Because how could we blame on some fans or the casual viewer for thinking Sheldon is insensitive and cruel for not giving physical love to Amy, if the show spend all the time depicting her as sad and miserable, while they never show us his own struggle with the issue, and instead they give us pieces of dialogue as the following:

Raj: Wouldn't you be upset if you saw Amy out with someone else?
Sheldon: Can't happen. We have an iron-clad relationship agreement which precludes her from sexual contact with anyone other than me.
Raj: But you don't have sex with her either.
Sheldon: Slick, huh?

(From The Gorilla Disolution)

 

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First, I don't agree that the show includes a base assumption that Sheldon's issues with sex are a bad thing.  The show has two  categories of character flaws 1) Flaws that are clearly presented as bad things.  like Bernadettes's temper, Howard's laziness, Penny's drinking, or Sheldon's arrogance and general jerkassitude.  Theses flaws are presented negatively, and the other character snark about them. 2) "Flaws" that aren't really flaws and are meant to humanize and flesh out the characters, Raj's metro sexuality, Penny's "blonde monkey" qualities, Leonard's touchiness, and yes Sheldon's virginity.

 

i can't be the only one who found his innocence endearing.  I still do.  The writers did seem to be doing a pretty good job gently progressing him into a more mature space sexually, but if they hadn't, or if they stopped, I'd be just as happy.  

 

Second,  I can't think of an example of a young tv couple where the girl was reticent about sex and the man was insistent.  So I can't make a direct comparison.   Generally, that plot is reserved for older family sitcom couples.  In those cases my sympathies lie entirely with the poor hard up guy, ymmv.

Edited by Boonaroma

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that's why I try not to post in the Shamy thread anymore. I literally started questioning like do I sound like a nympho to other people maybe? Cause when I say Amy has the right to be frustrated of having no sex (sex meaning also hugs, not-just-date-night kisses, etc) in her life literally no one agrees with me.

I agree with you, and I don't think you're wrong.

I see Sheldon being wrong plenty.   My comment was about him turning her down in this last taping because they really didn't solve anything.   Do you believe he was wrong to turn her down? 

Well, you did say it's her time to eat crow now, did you not? That to me signifies that it's her time to grovel now. But.. you're right , they shouldn't be together, IMO, because they haven't solved anything.

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Well, you did say it's her time to eat crow now, did you not? That to me signifies that it's her time to grovel now. But.. you're right , they shouldn't be together, IMO, because they haven't solved anything.

Nope, that was me, not Nickelette.  And I didn't mean it's her time to grovel.  Just that they are both wrong and both right.  Sheldon learned some things during this whole break up period and now it looks like Amy will learn some things.  They're both new at this, inexperienced and a tad immature about some things.

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Personally I hated how they made Sheldon conform to the conventions of Hollywood and relationship convention and get a GF. Another side of me is happy for Sheldon that he happened to find the one women on the TV planet, that he is compatible with. Too bad he has no idea, how to meet her even half way. And I don't think he ever well no how to compromise with her unfortunately. He has clearly has strong feelings, I just think after 5 seasons of Shamy, they lack the depth and understanding to be on the same page. They seem to be on the same wave length. But how many times has Sheldon nearly lost Amy, then got her back, and fell back into the same old routine. Quite honestly after 4-5 seasons of Shamy, I am getting tired of them. It was fun at first, but now don't know. Of course the shows nearing its end, so character growth is key to keep things moving. The central theme is the couples being central to the story, they need to keep that interesting, without getting too stagnant. I think Sheldon and Amy should remain friends from now on, and Amy should get a boyfriend who actually can give her what she wants and needs, because Clearly Sheldon is not giving her what she needs. As they say if you love something or someone, let it go.

Edited by 3ku11
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Just to clarify, I don't think the show depicts Sheldon's issues with sex as a bad thing or as a flaw, but I do think they will eventually make him come to the conclusion that he was wrong for not wanting it (not necessarily saying it out loud, but with his actions), just as they did with kissing, he was adamantly against it, then, after he truly experienced it, he came to enjoy and even to be keen of it.

And I'm also not bummed out by Sheldon's innocence and I'm not all eager to see him sexualized. Actually, I'm one of those fans that would have been perfectly okay with Shamy remaining as an asexual couple forever, as long as they both were oakay with it, of course. But the writers decided to follow the other path, I just can wish they manage to do it in the best way possible.

 

 

Edited by sarah7
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I just find this idea that Sheldon is susposed to value Amy beyond all others. But he treats her just as badly as he does his friends. Lack of consistency is my issue here with the writers.

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I agree with you, and I don't think you're wrong.

Well, you did say it's her time to eat crow now, did you not? That to me signifies that it's her time to grovel now. But.. you're right , they shouldn't be together, IMO, because they haven't solved anything.

No.   I didn't say it was time for her to eat crow.  Not really sure where you got that from unless you misinterpreted what I said.   I said that no matter what our reasons are for the decisions that we make or how valid those reasons may be there can be consequences.  Unfortunately,  the consequences for her breaking up with Sheldon were that he was hurt to the point of not believing they should be more than friends.   That doesn't mean she was wrong to do so. 

Just to clarify, I don't think the show depicts Sheldon's issues with sex as a bad thing or as a flaw, but I do think they will eventually make him come to the conclusion that he was wrong for not wanting it (not necessarily saying it out loud, but with his actions), just as they did with kissing, he was adamantly against it, then, after he truly experienced it, he came to enjoy and even to be keen of it.

And also, I'm also not bummed out by Sheldon's innocence and I'm not all eager to see him sexualized. Actually, I'm one of those fans that would have been perfectly okay with Shamy remaining as an asexual couple forever, as long as they both were oakay with it, of course. But the writers decided to follow the other path, I just can wish they manage to do it in the best way possible.

 

 

This part we agree.  I would have been fine either way.   I also would have enjoyed it if they just had these two stumble upon a sexual relationship instead of having Amy jump so far ahead or have Sheldon lag so far behind.  Just have it evolve like their friendship, all quirky, weird but sweet and innocent. 

I still wouldn't characterize him as being wrong when it happens,  more than I would think that she is an exception.   I really believe,  at this point,  his sexuality is all about her.   And honestly,  while Amy has been shown to have some sexual attractions outside of Sheldon,  I really think her need is a need for him and not just a need to have sex just because. 

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Personally I hated how they made Sheldon conform to the conventions of Hollywood and relationship convention and get a GF. Another side of me is happy for Sheldon that he happened to find the one women on the TV planet, that he is compatible with. Too bad he has no idea, how to meet her even half way. And I don't think he ever well no how to compromise with her unfortunately. He has clearly has strong feelings, I just think after 5 seasons of Shamy, they lack the depth and understanding to be on the same page. They seem to be on the same wave length. But how many times has Sheldon nearly lost Amy, then got her back, and fell back into the same old routine. Quite honestly after 4-5 seasons of Shamy, I am getting tired of them. It was fun at first, but now don't know. Of course the shows nearing its end, so character growth is key to keep things moving. The central theme is the couples being central to the story, they need to keep that interesting, without getting too stagnant. I think Sheldon and Amy should remain friends from now on, and Amy should get a boyfriend who actually can give her what she wants and needs, because Clearly Sheldon is not giving her what she needs. As they say if you love something or someone, let it go.

Sheldon was one of the most unique characters in  TV history. He was created to completely defy the conventions of an American sitcom male. He was not only a 20-something who had no interest in having sex with anyone (man or woman), he was not interested in even having a equalized non-sexual relationship. People were put on this earth to do his bidding or admire him. He would not compromise that position even if it meant hurting others feelings.

Jim Parson's portrayal was downright brilliant. He made you believe that he was not moved sexual by anyone, especially women. Maybe Jim had a built in advantage in that regard.:shy:.

At the end of season three they decided to see how they could build a woman friend for Sheldon out of the template of Dr. Beverly Hofstadler and it was fun for a while but as you said 3ku11, after 5 seasons they are still in a hole that they can't get out of. If Sheldon becomes even acceptable boyfriend material he is no longer Sheldon. The writers can not figure out how to make this transition work and be true to their master creation.

I can't see how it can be done.

Edited by BangerMain
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