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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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Carlos, you guys got totally screwed. You waited 9 years and got no frills in Vegas? That's the same thing she did with Zach for godsake, except we presume she knows it's legal this time? You are getting some sort of do over. You have to be getting some sort of do over. The sitcom gods have willed it. Raj will get a wild hare up his ass and will plan the perfect do over.

I am not a huge Lenny fan (mostly because of last season... it was sooooo slow) but you don't pull that after 9 years... you have fans.

Maybe the 200th episode?

And then Shamy can get back together in the aftermath during 201.

 

Sorry for the super late reply, just found this thread.

That bolded part though! I'm kinda mad about that :rtfm:

I read an article with one of the producers (Molaro maybe?) where they said the Lenny wedding was perfect for the kind of couple that they are so I don't see a do over happening but IMO that would be the perfect 200th episode! In 100 they got back together, in 200 they finally have their big romantic day :)

 

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Lenny got screwed, not just with the wedding, but with the events leading up to and the aftermath. I don't think that it is a terrible idea in theory for Leonard to have slipped, feel terrible about i

I know this might be a ca-ray-zeee idea but can we like not have a Shenny panic attack every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene together or Jim dares to say that he likes -gasp!- working with Kaley!?

Sheldon does depend too much on Lenny as parental figures, but the ironic thing is that I think Lenny also depend a great deal on Sheldon. They kind of use him to not have to deal with issues in their

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I agree it wasen't Bernadettes place to tell Penny about the kiss. Just like it wasen't Penny's place to tell Amy about the ring. And clearly Penny did not know Sheldon was planning on proposing, seeing her shocked reaction in Spock Resonance. I really hope their is closure to this very soon, don't like BBT too relationship driven.

 

Sorry for the super late reply, just found this thread.

That bolded part though! I'm kinda mad about that :rtfm:

I read an article with one of the producers (Molaro maybe?) where they said the Lenny wedding was perfect for the kind of couple that they are so I don't see a do over happening but IMO that would be the perfect 200th episode! In 100 they got back together, in 200 they finally have their big romantic day :)

 

I disagree with the OP. I have supported Lenny since 1x01, this was perfect for them. They have always been portrayed realistically. And they have always had small, isolated moments. So for me this was a perfect wedding. They are not the type of couple to have a big, elaborate wedding. Although I have no issue with a do over, so they can invite friends and family, and do It properly. I just think at this stage they have been very domesticated since S6, so the wedding just felt anti climatic imo.

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I agree it wasen't Bernadettes place to tell Penny about the kiss. Just like it wasen't Penny's place to tell Amy about the ring. And clearly Penny did not know Sheldon was planning on proposing, seeing her shocked reaction in Spock Resonance. I really hope their is closure to this very soon, don't like BBT too relationship driven.

I disagree with the OP. I have supported Lenny since 1x01, this was perfect for them. They have always been portrayed realistically. And they have always had small, isolated moments. So for me this was a perfect wedding. They are not the type of couple to have a big, elaborate wedding. Although I have no issue with a do over, so they can invite friends and family, and do It properly. I just think at this stage they have been very domesticated since S6, so the wedding just felt anti climatic imo.

So basically what you're saying is that this wasn't perfect for Lenny, I mean since you said you wouldn't mind "having a do over so they can invite friends and do it properly" (your words). You also say that they are not the type to have a big elaborate wedding. What I would say in response to that is that they are note the type to need a big elaborate wedding, but I for one would have really like to have seen one. They way it was handled was, IMO, pathetic. Besides it being a crappy ceremony (mostly) we didn't even get to see all of it because of course we had to cut to Sheldon and whatever effing issue he was having at the moment . I found that ridiculous because while Lenny getting married who the hell cares about what's happening to Sheldon? The writers, apparently. Btw I'm not saying this because I don't care about Sheldon, but because , as I see it, it was very poor writing. If we are dealing with a situation that has been 9 years in the making, the pay-off, climax , whatever you want to call it should be, pretty much epic. I would have loved to see something amazing, huge, unforgettable, with both their families and with all their friends. They could have had more than an episode of extremely funny misadventures if they were shown to be planning for it, but decided instead to go with the Shamy split, which while I consider to be IC, and necessary to make Sheldon appreciate Amy as much as he appreciates himself, and to make her a priority in his life, would have made much more sense at the beginning and not the end of S8. Of course, S8 could have been used to show Lenny preparing to get married, but again they chose to advance Shamy to set it back afterwards. Oh well the writers giveth and the writers taketh away , and the writers royally  screweth the story telling as well.

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So basically what you're saying is that this wasn't perfect for Lenny, I mean since you said you wouldn't mind "having a do over so they can invite friends and do it properly" (your words). You also say that they are not the type to have a big elaborate wedding. What I would say in response to that is that they are note the type to need a big elaborate wedding, but I for one would have really like to have seen one. They way it was handled was, IMO, pathetic. Besides it being a crappy ceremony (mostly) we didn't even get to see all of it because of course we had to cut to Sheldon and whatever effing issue he was having at the moment . I found that ridiculous because while Lenny getting married who the hell cares about what's happening to Sheldon? The writers, apparently. Btw I'm not saying this because I don't care about Sheldon, but because , as I see it, it was very poor writing. If we are dealing with a situation that has been 9 years in the making, the pay-off, climax , whatever you want to call it should be, pretty much epic. I would have loved to see something amazing, huge, unforgettable, with both their families and with all their friends. They could have had more than an episode of extremely funny misadventures if they were shown to be planning for it, but decided instead to go with the Shamy split, which while I consider to be IC, and necessary to make Sheldon appreciate Amy as much as he appreciates himself, and to make her a priority in his life, would have made much more sense at the beginning and not the end of S8. Of course, S8 could have been used to show Lenny preparing to get married, but again they chose to advance Shamy to set it back afterwards. Oh well the writers giveth and the writers taketh away , and the writers royally  screweth the story telling as well.

Look I agree with you technically. IF this was S6 they would prob had a better wedding. But apart from being very domesticated, and more focused on their marrage. And being dragged out. The way they had written their engagement, no mention for two years. Let's just say I Wasen't surprised.

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But, but but.... It's the story the writers want to tell, so just live with it.    And, since the writers are writing it, the characters are IC.  How dare you criticize the show? Don't you know it's perfect. 

For those that don't recognize it, the previous was sarcasm.  Wowbagger's post was right on point. 

Edited by Tensor
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Lenny got screwed, not just with the wedding, but with the events leading up to and the aftermath. I don't think that it is a terrible idea in theory for Leonard to have slipped, feel terrible about it, and blurt it out at a terrible time. From a writing perspective, that is. That is why I was cautiously optimistic about the development, while facepalming about how inorganic and unearned it felt. Because, seriously, Leonard's behaviour over S8 and S7 gave very little indication that he was feeling guilty about anything. That's not Galecki's fault- how can he portray guilt about something he has no idea happened? And, before someone asks me how I KNOW FOR CERTAIN etc. etc.- I don't. I am just going by the writers' frequently cavalier attitude to continuity, their notorious pride in not planning arcs, and my greater confidence in the actors than in the writers.

But, anyway, the S8 finale reveal happened, and I thought '.....Okay, that was so completely an arse pull on the part of the writers, but maybe now we can address Leonard's issues in the relationship! Finally! Penny has always been portrayed as the one with the doubts and the issues. Hooray! Leonard gets a proper arc and Galecki gets to show off his acting chops!'

..................And nope. Leonard's issues are brought up, addressed, resolved and buried under the mattress in the space of one. Freaking. Episode. And again, before someone asks me why I want a light-hearted sitcom to become a drama perennially addressing its characters' issues- I don't. But I am not the one who brought up something as dramatic as infidelity. If you are going to steer your characters into such heavy territory, do it properly. Why bring up something so major, shake your heads about it so portentously- and then back out of the room apologising profusely? You may as well not have bothered. In fact, you really SHOULDN'T have bothered.

Let alone the fact that the writing of S9 has converted the group, as rachel says, into an oddly-secretive, randomly amnesiac collection of near-strangers. Howard and Bernie knew about the kiss and didn't say anything? Okay. Neither of them, by actions or demeanour, betrayed that they knew anything or were uncomfortable? Okay. Penny hasn't expressed a lingering sense of outrage about the loyalties of the group, as well she might? Really? And that sort of weird ships-that-pass-in-the-night quality infects the rest of the characters this season. Penny with Sheldon and Amy, for example. Penny has ZERO obligation to get Sheldon and Amy talking/reconciling/whatever, especially if she thinks Amy wants to move on. Fair enough. I can even handwave Penny and Bernie's frankly desultory attempts at figuring out why Amy is being evasive and zombie-ish when they try to figure out what is going on. Okay, they both have other stuff on their minds. But it is weird to me that Penny would show no constraint about helping Amy move on, when she knows Sheldon is miserable. Understand me, I am NOT saying that Penny shouldn't help. I am saying it is weird to me that Penny displays no awkwardness about doing so.

It's like these people have all forgotten that they know each other, the better to advance the plot the writers want to tell. I repeat myself so much on these threads that I can't remember now whether I have said this before, but it's seriously like the Idiot Ball- or Amnesiac Ball- is being passed from character to character just to keep a certain plot going. It's... unsettling.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank  you for saying everything I've been wanting to say and wasn't able to properly articulate. As you say it's like the "Amnesiac Ball". Everything seems so disjointed and inorganic while people are sort of forgetting who they've always been. While I initially supported the Shamy split, while always having reservations about the timing, I  don't like the way it's being handled, and it sorts of starts to feel like a writing exercise. Besides that I've never seen a break up arc in which you never get one of the character's POV. I started thinking that the writing started to decline the second 1/2 of S7, and S8 did nothing but confirm it. While I've liked Lenny from Ep 2 forward I haven't liked this season so much, and the only really funny ep for me was the one where the van catches fire. Oh well, I'll keep watching for now, I guess having invested do many years of my life in these characters. but to point out I'm not getting what I wanted would be the understatement of the year.

Wowbagger: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 likes for your post. Perfect !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

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Lenny got screwed, not just with the wedding, but with the events leading up to and the aftermath. I don't think that it is a terrible idea in theory for Leonard to have slipped, feel terrible about it, and blurt it out at a terrible time. From a writing perspective, that is. That is why I was cautiously optimistic about the development, while facepalming about how inorganic and unearned it felt. Because, seriously, Leonard's behaviour over S8 and S7 gave very little indication that he was feeling guilty about anything. That's not Galecki's fault- how can he portray guilt about something he has no idea happened? And, before someone asks me how I KNOW FOR CERTAIN etc. etc.- I don't. I am just going by the writers' frequently cavalier attitude to continuity, their notorious pride in not planning arcs, and my greater confidence in the actors than in the writers.

But, anyway, the S8 finale reveal happened, and I thought '.....Okay, that was so completely an arse pull on the part of the writers, but maybe now we can address Leonard's issues in the relationship! Finally! Penny has always been portrayed as the one with the doubts and the issues. Hooray! Leonard gets a proper arc and Galecki gets to show off his acting chops!'

..................And nope. Leonard's issues are brought up, addressed, resolved and buried under the mattress in the space of one. Freaking. Episode. And again, before someone asks me why I want a light-hearted sitcom to become a drama perennially addressing its characters' issues- I don't. But I am not the one who brought up something as dramatic as infidelity. If you are going to steer your characters into such heavy territory, do it properly. Why bring up something so major, shake your heads about it so portentously- and then back out of the room apologising profusely? You may as well not have bothered. In fact, you really SHOULDN'T have bothered.

..

It's like these people have all forgotten that they know each other, the better to advance the plot the writers want to tell. I repeat myself so much on these threads that I can't remember now whether I have said this before, but it's seriously like the Idiot Ball- or Amnesiac Ball- is being passed from character to character just to keep a certain plot going. It's... unsettling.

Here's how I fanwank this.  The writers didn't think they were writing a Leonard's infidelity plot arc.  They thought they were writing a 'Leonard Self Sabotages' plot arc.   The kiss wasn't meant to be thought of like his kiss with the comic artist girl.  This was clearly just an awkward social encounter that Leonard had blown out of proportion, because that's what he does.  Mandy doesn't ask why he kissed her, she asks why he told Penny.  It's meant, I think, to be further underscored by the fact that Howardette didn't think it was important enough to share.   Howard didn't even tel Raj, it was so uninteresting.  They clearly didn't write it very well, seeing as how many fans didn't take it that way, but the kiss wasn't the issue.  It wasn't even really a kiss.  She broke her tooth and didn't remember it (how does that even work, btw?). The insecurity was the only real issue, and Lenny have been working though their respective insecurities for the entiretity of their relationship, so that resolution wasn't particularly sudden.

 

But I absolutely agree, the writers bungled the execution, so in a way it's a blessing they didn't drag it out.

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Its just a multi.camera sitcom. Sometimes i think.fans expect too much, it aint Friends. The way Lenny married was typical of their story. I had no issue, their vows were awesome. But thats just me. As said advertising produced it as epic. To me that matters, regardless of interpretation. 

Edited by 3ku11
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Its just a multi.camera sitcom. Sometimes i think.fans expect too much, it aint Friends. The way Lenny married was typical of their story. I had no issue, their vows were awesome. But thats just me. As said advertising produced it as epic. To me that matters, regardless of interpretation. 

But wait, why can't we expect a lot? At the very least I would expect the writers to write something that is coherent with everything that they've written before about a certain set of characters or couple, that is to say Leonard and Penny. If they could write a scene like Penny's first I love you which made the hair on the back of your neck stand out, why can they make Lenny's wedding epic? Or at the very least a conclusion coherent with a story 9 years in the making? There is no reason they shouldn't be able to do that. They just decided not to.

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But wait, why can't we expect a lot? At the very least I would expect the writers to write something that is coherent with everything that they've written before about a certain set of characters or couple, that is to say Leonard and Penny. If they could write a scene like Penny's first I love you which made the hair on the back of your neck stand out, why can they make Lenny's wedding epic? Or at the very least a conclusion coherent with a story 9 years in the making? There is no reason they shouldn't be able to do that. They just decided not to.

Well after the way Lenny were minimized last season. No surprises the wedding was minimized too..

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But, but but.... It's the story the writers want to tell, so just live with it.    And, since the writers are writing it, the characters are IC.  How dare you criticize the show? Don't you know it's perfect. 

For those that don't recognize it, the previous was sarcasm.  Wowbagger's post was right on point. 

I recognize the sarcasm but other than live with it is there anything that anyone is going to do really?  

Edited by djsurrey
grammar fix
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I recognize the sarcasm but other than live with it is anyone going to do really?  

I've said before that I don't think the writers or powers that be lurk here, and im still inclined to think so.  But I was thinking about last year's Christmas episode, which according to the TR was meant to include a callback to Penny and Raj's hookup.  If I remember the fan response here correctly,  there was pretty universal frustration and disgust that this kept getting brought up.  Particularly since it was always brought up in a way that was disrespectful to Penny as a character.

 

Lo and behold the episode aired without that scene, even though it made the episode itself feel a little light.  Now, who's to say reaction here wasn't mirrored in other places? Possibly the studio audience was lukewarm as well. But it was a change that followed fan outcry.

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I recognize the sarcasm but other than live with it is anyone going to do really?  

Probably not. However, ranting is within my power. That is why I 'Must, like a whore, unpack my heart with words/And fall a-cursing like a very drab/ a scullion'.

(Sorry, I've been reading Hamlet.)

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Well after the way Lenny were minimized last season. No surprises the wedding was minimized too..

Well you're right, I'm not surprised they did it like that, but they royally screwed up, IMO

I recognize the sarcasm but other than live with it is there anything that anyone is going to do really?  

Of course not, but that's not the point in these forums at all. Nobody's going to do anything, because at the end of the day there isn't anything anyone can do to solve what we perceive as a problem or bad writing. In order to do that we would have to replace the writing staff, which is not going to happen. The reason I say that's not the point is because if we adhere to our logic then there really wouldn't be any point for these forums at all. All we can actually do is exchange our opinions. 

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Probably not. However, ranting is within my power. That is why I 'Must, like a whore, unpack my heart with words/And fall a-cursing like a very drab/ a scullion'.

(Sorry, I've been reading Hamlet.)

Listening to Wowbagger always makes me sound like Jethro..... :beta:

Edited by JE7
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Its just a multi.camera sitcom. Sometimes i think.fans expect too much, it aint Friends. The way Lenny married was typical of their story. I had no issue, their vows were awesome. But thats just me. As said advertising produced it as epic. To me that matters, regardless of interpretation. 

"...it aint Friends"

You got that part right. If it were friends I would not be here.

Expecting it to be friends is not really expecting too much but expecting it to be completely different.

Edited by djsurrey

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I don't understand why its awww that Sheldon greeted them as that? What they are sudenlly validated as a married couple, because Sheldon refered to them as that, get outta here.

It's only verified when Sheldon says so. Lenny can not shit without Sheldon say so. It what it is. The Sheldon show Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
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It's not WHO mentioned their marital status, but that their marital status was mentioned.  That's the awww part.  Magilla Gorilla could have said it for all I care...

NO its because Sheldon mentioned it per usual, just like the next ep seems Shamy centric again. May as well re name the Show to The Shamy Show. Everyone else is just supporters at this stage.

Edited by 3ku11
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