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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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20 hours ago, Itwasdestined said: Man, can everyone lay off the stressing of "it's my opinion"? When did everyone get so sensitive about people disagreeing with each other? How is disagreeing offending someone? It's a discussion forum. Of course if you write it, it's your opinion. Who else's opinion would it be? Did someone hack your account? And this is the Shipping Lane thread. I thought it was set up for the debate to keep the ship threads supportive. Sometimes I feel I'm on yard duty with the little kids at school here. I have an opinion. You have opinion. We may or may not agree. That's life. I think Lenny are in a great place, Shamy are going to come out of this stronger when it eventually is written to end, it's got nothing to do with Penny talking about sex with Sheldon and am fine with Sheldon being numero uno. Feel free to disagree. I can handle it. ( not my usual calm self but hey everyone needs to blow off steam. I'm over apologist accusations and people worrying about being told what to think. No one telling anyone anything. It's an opinion ) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The reason I put IMO now which I didn't use to before, is because there are a whole bunch of over-sensitive posters who get all bent out of shape when someone posts something that disagrees with what they think, and go running to Tensor, and I've had many posts deleted because I was being perceived as rude. As it stands, the fact that what we're giving are opinions should be obvious to anyone who "travels" these pages, but as Oscar Wilde said "common sense is not that common".  I hate feeling as if I have to walk on egg shells, but you have no idea how frustrating it is to see a post removed. I'm not saying that Tensor doesn't have his reasons. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm trying to find the balance between expressing my opinions as I feel them and not being unnecessarily rude to someone. That being said I am nice to some specific people because I genuinely like them, and of course it would be ridiculous to treat everybody the same.

I would like to see a little but less relationship stuff but I guess until Shamy's conundrum is solved I don't see much else being the main story of an episode.

And I share your frustration, Carlos.

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Lenny got screwed, not just with the wedding, but with the events leading up to and the aftermath. I don't think that it is a terrible idea in theory for Leonard to have slipped, feel terrible about i

I know this might be a ca-ray-zeee idea but can we like not have a Shenny panic attack every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene together or Jim dares to say that he likes -gasp!- working with Kaley!?

Sheldon does depend too much on Lenny as parental figures, but the ironic thing is that I think Lenny also depend a great deal on Sheldon. They kind of use him to not have to deal with issues in their

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10 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:

 

And I share your frustration, Carlos.

 

 

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I have twice complained about missing posts - but i think I forget to press the enter key - or Tensor was messing with me heheheh. Of course not. It was ...  look, a squirrel

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10 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:  

And I share your frustration, Carlos.

 

 

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I have twice complained about missing posts - but i think I forget to press the enter key - or Tensor was messing with me heheheh. Of course not. It was ...  look, a squirrel

And what was the squirrels opinion about the matter? I find squirrels on the whole hard to offend. It's why I often strike up conversations with them. Good citizens!

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So Penny diddnt gossip about Shamy. So.that shows irratic behaviour? Maybe like some said shes not as invested, why would she be? Her whole world does not revolve around them beleive it or not. Shes had more important things to worry about. Like being married, and Leonard cheating. On same accord, could say the same for Bernadette. Why per usual, is Penny being used as a scape goat? I dont see how Shamy is Pennys buisness but jmo. 

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32 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Thankfully you are a Shamy fan I feel I can have a conversation with. Some people get so defensive and really cannot stand it when someone's opinion differs from theirs. I'm the complete opposite, since interacting with other fans, specially  those whose opinions differ from yours and have an open mind, is the only way to learn something. We always think we're right, but we cannot think of everything, so... The only point I was trying to make was that if this is the way the reconciliation was going to take place, then we shouldn't have had the split at all. It makes it feel so unnecessary. I so agree with you in regards to the Lenny OOC kiss-pitiful wedding-OOA explanation cycle. I consider that bad writing as well. Now that you mention it, yes, at a certain point in time we ( as shippers) will accept any crap the writers give us just to get the forced situations out of the way. That being said I think we've been making chicken salad out of chicken sh*t way too long. I think it's time the writers served us some good chicken Caesar salad from now on.

Yep, once something becomes canon, we just have to go with it, whether we like it or not.

I may be a diehard Shamy shipper, but I agree 100% that Lenny has really been crapped on, and I don't care for the way the Shamy break up and Sheldon's behavior have invaded their lives.    After (8) years, they deserved to have a beautiful wedding.   Nope, outside of the sweet marriage vows, they were short-changed.   The friends missed out on it.   No reception.   Then they were robbed of their honeymoon.   Now they are being deprived of a life on their own together and spending all their time in Sheldon's kitchen, although I still attest that that was their decision.   I get why the Lenny's are not happy.

On Shamy, even Amy implied to Dave that she doesn't understand why the split happened.

The only reason I see for it was to create drama to force Sheldon to change his behavior toward Amy to make their relationship more symbiotic, not for Amy to come to some magical realization .

I haven't cared for the angst of the storyline, but now that it has played out, I think the writer's have done a decent job with Shamy.  I'm happy with the conclusion.

I do hope that they will get back to focusing more on Lenny, while Shamy fades into the background doing the fun cute things we enjoy, rather than giving us more drama to contend with.

 

Sorry, Tensor.  I tried to move this to the Shipping Lanes thread, but the quote function will not allow me to copy and paste.    I willingly hold my hand out for your to slap it as I report my own post.

Edited by jenafan
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On 12 November 2015 at 4:31:24 PM, 3ku11 said:

So Penny diddnt gossip about Shamy. So.that shows irratic behaviour? Maybe like some said shes not as invested, why would she be? Her whole world does not revolve around them beleive it or not. Shes had more important things to worry about. Like being married, and Leonard cheating. On same accord, could say the same for Bernadette. Why per usual, is Penny being used as a scape goat? I dont see how Shamy is Pennys buisness but jmo. 

I haven't been following the discussions complaining about Penny interfering/not interfering in the Shamy.  It raises the question of whether or not Sheldon and Amy are competent adults who can make their own decisions. Sure, they can listen to advice, but they make choices whether to follow that advice or not. In private matters adults generally do what they want, not what others want them to. Unless they are not competent, of course. 

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On 11/11/2015, 5:41:32, meka3000 said:

So it's impossible for you to believe that Leonard kept something bottled up inside him like he did with Priya before The Irish Pub Formulation?  Also little is not the same as none, there was a potential clue in 7x02 when Penny thought Leonard came home early to spend time with her to be romantic, and Leonard's reaction was, "Yeah..... that's why I did it."  Hmmm, maybe there was something behind those words that we didn't know about at the time?

 

In other words, your going with truthiness.

 

What makes you believe these issues were resolved completely, and will never be issues for him or Penny in the future? As opposed to putting a lid on the issue that brought this up at that moment in time, and to move forward with more self-awareness.

I meant to respond earlier but I've only been able to access the forum on my phone, and there are ten nested quotes that have nothing to do with this conversation...

Right, so- I had a pleasurable giggle at 'truthiness', but I think that I have more evidence on my side than my (historically unreliable) gut. My contention is that were Leonard to be so bothered by something that he thought it was worth ruining his wedding for, would we not have seen evidence of constraint, worry, doubt before?

Now, I should clarify: at the time of the S8 finale, I was pretty sure that the kiss would turn out to be nothing, and that the really interesting question was why Leonard chose to bring it up at all- especially when he did. As boonaroma points out- and I agree- the revelation may have been far more about Leonard sabotaging his own happiness than a recognition of infidelity at all.

Which is a really interesting character beat, that I also think was hoiked to the fore like a rabbit out of a conjurer's hat. I didn't need Leonard to worry about being a bad person because he kissed someone else, specifically. But I do think that, if Leonard were worried enough about something (whatever that might be) to risk scuppering his own wedding, I would like to have seen evidence in his manner or his affect.

And- well, yes, I do have more faith in the actors than the writers. You may disagree and that is fine. And aren't the writers on record as saying they never plan arcs? You're right that I have no concrete evidence that they did not plan this specific arc, but I'm comfortable with the balance of probability being that they didn't. And when you don't plan a long-simmering character arc, it's not easy to write it and act it in such a way that it's coherent. You may believe that , even if they didn't plan it, they pulled it off. And that's fine. I'm afraid I don't.

As to Leonard's issues coming up at a later date: that is interesting. Perhaps I should suspend judgement. However, I'm afraid that I also think that the writers have a habit of shuffling conflict under the carpet (Sheldon's S7 walkabout, for example), with relatively few repercussions. So IF Leonard's issues resurface, that will be interesting and I will be pleasantly surprised. Feel free to say 'O ye of little faith' if the show returns with a subtle, thoughtful, multi-faceted examination of Leonard's feelings of inadequacy and self-sabotage.

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21 minutes ago, Squonk said:

O ye of little faith

They wrote that Penny tossed her own shoes. That might be all the nods to Leonard's insecurity that we get. Certainly demonstrates Penny's commitment too. If she can do that then she is definitely demonstrating that she is all in. Leonard should relax about himself now. He won't of course. but nevermind.

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I will nevermind. But I will not pass up an opportunity to Feel free. In good spirit I hope.

 

edit; you are not the person I replied to. I am just going to cry some more just like a good old squonky. So sad.

Edited by Squonk

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1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Certainly demonstrates Penny's commitment too. If she can do that then she is definitely demonstrating that she is all in. Leonard should relax about himself now. He won't of course. but nevermind.

Penny loves Leonard, no doubts. Still, doubts.... it's not easy.

Edited by Squonk
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Saw a discussion about whether or not Leonard and Penny were on again off again in another thread but thought I'd better post my thoughts on it here because people seemed upset at the accusation for some reason?!

season 1:

  • 1x03 - They go out for a dinner date, Penny didn't realise it was a date 
  • 1x06 - After the Halloween party she kisses him 
  • 1x17 - They go on their first official date, open the box and it turns out the cat is alive! And they are On.

Season 2:

  • 2x01 - Penny avoids a second date...
  • 2x02 - Penny is dating another guy and Leonard goes back to Leslie. They are Off.
  • 2x15 - Leonard and Penny get drunk and end up in bed together, Leonard opens his big mouth. Briefly On. then Off.

Season 3:

  • 3x01 - Leonard comes home, knocks on Penny's door and they are On!
  • 3x19 - Enter Wil Wheaton. They are Off.
  • 3x24 - Penny is drunk and they have sex - On. Penny regrets it. Off.

Season 4:

  • 4x09 - Leonard pretends to be her boyfriend, lots of kissing - Some would say kinda on?
  • 4x13 - They hook up at the hotel On? ... Penny says it was a one time thing Off.
     

Season 5:

  • 5x09 - They go on a friend date
  • 5x13 - Leonard asks her back out - On.

They have been on and off and they are now happily married, the fact that it took them a while to get their relationship to a point where they were ready to commit to each other forever doesn't diminish how solid they are now at all! 

 

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Saw a discussion about whether or not Leonard and Penny were on again off again in another thread but thought I'd better post my thoughts on it here because people seemed upset at the accusation for some reason?!

season 1:

  • 1x03 - They go out for a dinner date, Penny didn't realise it was a date 
  • 1x06 - After the Halloween party she kisses him 
  • 1x17 - They go on their first official date, open the box and it turns out the cat is alive! And they are On.
Season 2:

  • 2x01 - Penny avoids a second date...
  • 2x02 - Penny is dating another guy and Leonard goes back to Leslie. They are Off.
  • 2x15 - Leonard and Penny get drunk and end up in bed together, Leonard opens his big mouth. Briefly On. then Off.
Season 3:

  • 3x01 - Leonard comes home, knocks on Penny's door and they are On!
  • 3x19 - Enter Wil Wheaton. They are Off.
  • 3x24 - Penny is drunk and they have sex - On. Penny regrets it. Off.
Season 4:

  • 4x09 - Leonard pretends to be her boyfriend, lots of kissing - Some would say kinda on?
  • 4x13 - They hook up at the hotel On? ... Penny says it was a one time thing Off.

     

Season 5:

  • 5x09 - They go on a friend date
  • 5x13 - Leonard asks her back out - On.
They have been on and off and they are now happily married, the fact that it took them a while to get their relationship to a point where they were ready to commit to each other forever doesn't diminish how solid they are now at all! 

 

But you are missing the point they have to be dating to break up. First date did not work out so not dating. You have to be boyfriend and girlfriend to breakup which they weren't at those time you mentioned. So how is that on and off.

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I don't know how you count a one date or a failed hook up as being in a relationship (if you're going by that, then Raj and Penny  were in a relationship, as were Leonard and Mrs Latham).  They were in a relationship once, starting with Penny kiss after his coming back from the north pole, ending with the bowling alley break up, prior to getting back together in 5.13.  On and off once.  

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

But you are missing the point they have to be dating to break up. First date did not work out so not dating. You have to be boyfriend and girlfriend to breakup which they weren't at those time you mentioned. So how is that on and off.

 

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It appears to me you just have a different working assumption than Einstein Von Brainstorm.

2 hours ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

Saw a discussion about whether or not Leonard and Penny were on again off again in another thread but thought I'd better post my thoughts on it here because people seemed upset at the accusation for some reason?!

season 1:

  • 1x03 - They go out for a dinner date, Penny didn't realise it was a date 
  • 1x06 - After the Halloween party she kisses him 
  • 1x17 - They go on their first official date, open the box and it turns out the cat is alive! And they are On.

Season 2:

  • 2x01 - Penny avoids a second date...
  • 2x02 - Penny is dating another guy and Leonard goes back to Leslie. They are Off.
  • 2x15 - Leonard and Penny get drunk and end up in bed together, Leonard opens his big mouth. Briefly On. then Off.

Season 3:

  • 3x01 - Leonard comes home, knocks on Penny's door and they are On!
  • 3x19 - Enter Wil Wheaton. They are Off.
  • 3x24 - Penny is drunk and they have sex - On. Penny regrets it. Off.

Season 4:

  • 4x09 - Leonard pretends to be her boyfriend, lots of kissing - Some would say kinda on?
  • 4x13 - They hook up at the hotel On? ... Penny says it was a one time thing Off.
     

Season 5:

  • 5x09 - They go on a friend date
  • 5x13 - Leonard asks her back out - On.

They have been on and off and they are now happily married, the fact that it took them a while to get their relationship to a point where they were ready to commit to each other forever doesn't diminish how solid they are now at all! 

 

I don't think I'd include the first dinner that was not even an official date. I do agree that the hookups are part of an on/off pattern.

I became quite disenchanted with the Lenny relationship because of that pattern.  I only started to warm up to it again after the end of season six.

Edited by djsurrey
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25 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said: But you are missing the point they have to be dating to break up. First date did not work out so not dating. You have to be boyfriend and girlfriend to breakup which they weren't at those time you mentioned. So how is that on and off.

 

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It appears to me you just have a different working assumption than Einstein Von Brainstorm.

1 hour ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said: Saw a discussion about whether or not Leonard and Penny were on again off again in another thread but thought I'd better post my thoughts on it here because people seemed upset at the accusation for some reason?!

season 1:

  • 1x03 - They go out for a dinner date, Penny didn't realise it was a date 
  • 1x06 - After the Halloween party she kisses him 
  • 1x17 - They go on their first official date, open the box and it turns out the cat is alive! And they are On.
Season 2:

  • 2x01 - Penny avoids a second date...
  • 2x02 - Penny is dating another guy and Leonard goes back to Leslie. They are Off.
  • 2x15 - Leonard and Penny get drunk and end up in bed together, Leonard opens his big mouth. Briefly On. then Off.
Season 3:

  • 3x01 - Leonard comes home, knocks on Penny's door and they are On!
  • 3x19 - Enter Wil Wheaton. They are Off.
  • 3x24 - Penny is drunk and they have sex - On. Penny regrets it. Off.
Season 4:

  • 4x09 - Leonard pretends to be her boyfriend, lots of kissing - Some would say kinda on?
  • 4x13 - They hook up at the hotel On? ... Penny says it was a one time thing Off.

     

Season 5:

  • 5x09 - They go on a friend date
  • 5x13 - Leonard asks her back out - On.
They have been on and off and they are now happily married, the fact that it took them a while to get their relationship to a point where they were ready to commit to each other forever doesn't diminish how solid they are now at all! 

 

I don't think I'd include the first dinner that was not even an official date. I do agree that the hookups are part of on on/off pattern.

I became quite disenchanted with the Lenny relationship because of that pattern.  I only started to warm up to it again after the end of season six.

It may appear as on and off to some but it really isn't. And it depends on what is defined as on and off. Their friendship/ sometimes sexual relationship or in a relationship on or off. I think as a couple they only broke up once and like I said all those times mentioned they were single and they were not on a date or when they were it didn't work out. Again not a relationship. Yes it was frustrating for the viewers including me. I didnt see it as on and or off. when they went to the cinema as friends. Leonard stated that more than once it wasn't a date. When they nearly hooked up at the conference penny specifically made it clear it was a one off. Also just because they hooked up and Leonard thought they were getting back together does not count as dating or getting back together.

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27 minutes ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

One of the reasons I love Leonard and Penny is that they have always liked each other and have always been friends:friends:In that light,

, it feels like they have always been together to me.:drinks:

Yes. They had a connection straight away and it persevered. Even though they both thought it was unlikely that it would work, they could not walk away from each other. It was never hopeless, even when they distracted each other with ostensibly more appropriate partners like Zack and Priya. They always had that connection, whether they were formally on or off. So I think that is what counts, not so much the book keeping and labelling. 

As an aside, I think bowling alley event tore them both up. Neither wanted it, but Penny thought she was being noble and self-sacrificing. Glad they go over that. Took 'em years, but hey, it was entertaining.  And almost epic. That's pretty good really.

Edit: And in the L/P story things happened. There was movement. It seems to me like the whole Shamy story has been an exercise in suspense. For ages nothing happened, then there was a flurry of movement no one was expecting. Totally different approaches to the same story of boy meets girl.

 

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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2 hours ago, djsurrey said:

It appears to me you just have a different working assumption than Einstein Von Brainstorm.

I don't think I'd include the first dinner that was not even an official date. I do agree that the hookups are part of an on/off pattern.

No I don't count the first dinner as a date, I just included the first few 'incidents' (for lack of a better word) in the interests of the timeline.

2 hours ago, Tensor said:

I don't know how you count a one date or a failed hook up as being in a relationship (if you're going by that, then Raj and Penny  were in a relationship, as were Leonard and Mrs Latham).  They were in a relationship once, starting with Penny kiss after his coming back from the north pole, ending with the bowling alley break up, prior to getting back together in 5.13.  On and off once.  

I do consider most of these little moments 'on' yes. No they were not in a serious committed relationship but as far as Leonard, in his romantic mindset and inexperience was concerned, these were big moments for him. Even the long hug in the last episode of season two was huge for him, every little thing that has happened between him and Penny over the years before they got together was huge in his mind!

When she first kissed him, when they first went to bed (when he said they were trying to sleep with their parents *cringe*) Leonard thought that all these little moments would be 'it' that they would finally be together.

So yeah On. Not in a serious committed relationship no, but definitely something

1 hour ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

One of the reasons I love Leonard and Penny is that they have always liked each other and have always been friends:friends:In that light,

, it feels like they have always been together to me.:drinks:

Same here, it felt wrong seeing them with Pria, Zack and others!

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4 hours ago, Tensor said:

I don't know how you count a one date or a failed hook up as being in a relationship (if you're going by that, then Raj and Penny  were in a relationship, as were Leonard and Mrs Latham).  They were in a relationship once, starting with Penny kiss after his coming back from the north pole, ending with the bowling alley break up, prior to getting back together in 5.13.  On and off once.  

 

 

 

If we go with the one date as counting as a relationship, Amy's mother insisted she date one a year.  If we assume that this started at her age of majority and now adding Dave to the mix that means Shamy is only one of possibly 10 "relationships" that Amy has had.  Vixen indeed.

 

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50 minutes ago, Etienne said:

If we go with the one date as counting as a relationship, Amy's mother insisted she date one a year.  If we assume that this started at her age of majority and now adding Dave to the mix that means Shamy is only one of possibly 10 "relationships" that Amy has had.  Vixen indeed.

 

Dave and the 2 other guys she's had dates with since breaking up with Sheldon.

Get it Amy Farrah Fowler! You go gurl! :icon_cheesygrin:

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46 minutes ago, Etienne said:

If we go with the one date as counting as a relationship, Amy's mother insisted she date one a year.  If we assume that this started at her age of majority and now adding Dave to the mix that means Shamy is only one of possibly 10 "relationships" that Amy has had.  Vixen indeed.

 

Not in a liberal democracy is she a vixen. I know you are expressing irony. But just being in the company of men, alone, ain't remarkable, nor relationships. :)

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We all know that Amy is Sheldon's first relationship, and first love. I see Shamy in terms of development almost like toddlers. You know in primary how you would grab your crushes hair and push her to the ground? Maybe that's just me... lol. I used to be mean to this girl in intermediate, because I liked her lol. I see Shamy like that, very innocent relationship. But problem with that is, they don't have the required emotional maturity to progress as normal couples do. And yes I know they have a unique, quirky dynamic. But if fans want the kisses, the progression. Needs to be conventional in some ways. Well see now they are back together, if things have changed or not since 8x24, where I thought the break up was very necessary. I woulden't say Amy is a vixen, Penny is :icon_biggrin:.

Edited by 3ku11
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