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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9


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7 hours ago, zaichina said:

I loved, loved this review:

It's the biggest moment, character-development-wise, in the show's history: bigger than when Howard and Bernadette got married, bigger than when Howard's mom died, bigger than Penny and Leonard's marriage, and bigger than a potential a Shamy marriage. This seemed like it might never occur.

 

 

I thoroughly disagree with this.  It was totally expected, since he said it was a possibility in season 7, maybe even back at 6.23, or even when they made Mayim a main cast member.   The only question, much like Leonard and Penny's wedding, was when.  

 

 

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Lenny got screwed, not just with the wedding, but with the events leading up to and the aftermath. I don't think that it is a terrible idea in theory for Leonard to have slipped, feel terrible about i

I know this might be a ca-ray-zeee idea but can we like not have a Shenny panic attack every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene together or Jim dares to say that he likes -gasp!- working with Kaley!?

Sheldon does depend too much on Lenny as parental figures, but the ironic thing is that I think Lenny also depend a great deal on Sheldon. They kind of use him to not have to deal with issues in their

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On 19/12/2015 at 9:23 PM, Tensor said:

 

 

I thoroughly disagree with this.  It was totally expected, since he said it was a possibility in season 7, maybe even back at 6.23, or even when they made Mayim a main cast member.   The only question, much like Leonard and Penny's wedding, was when.  

 

 

I don't know it was totally expected. I guess it was by some.

Funny I saw it as a non-event. The SIK was a big event. Really the significant thing here was Sheldon gave up the Star Wars opening to be with Amy on her birthday. What exactly they did is of lesser significance.

Overall I'm more interested in the Star wars references and Bob Newharts appearance.

Loved the tag scene.

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On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2015 at 6:02 PM, djsurrey said:

I don't know it was totally expected. I guess it was by some.

Funny I saw it as a non-event. The SIK was a big event. Really the significant thing here was Sheldon gave up the Star Wars opening to be with Amy on her birthday. What exactly they did is of lesser significance.

Overall I'm more interested in the Star wars references and Bob Newharts appearance.

Loved the tag scene.

So, you see two virgins who have been dating for 5 years having sex with each other as a non-event? Really? You've got to be joking.

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15 minutes ago, Carlos said:

So, you see two virgins who have been dating for 5 years having sex with each other as a non-event? Really? You've got to be joking.

I actually agree with dj on this one espicially since he is not a shipper. The actual coitus just like Lenny's wedding was really a non event. Everything leading up to it was more significant.

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2 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I actually agree with dj on this one espicially since he is not a shipper. The actual coitus just like Lenny's wedding was really a non event. Everything leading up to it was more significant.

I'm not a Shamy shipper either. but I think it was a very important even for Sheldon and Amy IMO. I don't think it was as important as the poster zaichina said, but I wouldn't characterize it as a non event either, so I have to say I disagree with both you and Dj,

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12 minutes ago, Carlos said:

I'm not a Shamy shipper either. but I think it was a very important even for Sheldon and Amy IMO. I don't think it was as important as the poster zaichina said, but I wouldn't characterize it as a non event either, so I have to say I disagree with both you and Dj,

@zaichina was quoting this article btw: http://www.vulture.com/2015/12/big-bang-theory-recap-season-9-episode-11.html  :) 

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9 minutes ago, Carlos said:

I'm not a Shamy shipper either. but I think it was a very important even for Sheldon and Amy IMO. I don't think it was as important as the poster zaichina said, but I wouldn't characterize it as a non event either, so I have to say I disagree with both you and Dj,

I think the break up ending up being the bigger event. It went from episode 1 till they got back together in episode 10. Then they had coitus in the next episode. I can seecoitus as a big event for the characters but not necessarily the viewer.

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5 hours ago, Carlos said:

So, you see two virgins who have been dating for 5 years having sex with each other as a non-event? Really? You've got to be joking.

Given the tag scene I'm just following Sheldon and the writers on this. Good old Sheldon.

 

2 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I think the break up ending up being the bigger event. It went from episode 1 till they got back together in episode 10. Then they had coitus in the next episode. I can seecoitus as a big event for the characters but not necessarily the viewer.

Good point.

This viewer is coming up to a 26 year marriage anniversary before the end of the year, has four grown kids and could not care less what Sheldon and Amy are doing or not doing in bed.

Funny thing is in the tag Sheldon spoke as though seeing SW7 was the more significant event.

Edited by djsurrey
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31 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Given the tag scene I'm just following Sheldon and the writers on this. Good old Sheldon.

Good point.

This viewer is coming up to a 26 year marriage anniversary before the end of the year, has four grown kids and could not care less what Sheldon and Amy are doing or not doing in bed.

Funny thing is in the tag Sheldon spoke as though seeing SW7 was the more significant event.

If you go by the press that this episode got then yeah it was widely considered a big deal! They did a press release whilst the episode was still being filmed, I don't think they've ever done that before have they?

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12 hours ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

If you go by the press that this episode got then yeah it was widely considered a big deal! They did a press release whilst the episode was still being filmed, I don't think they've ever done that before have they?

"the press release" is there to get passers by into the tent like at a carnival. It can be fun to see and look at but there is as much misdirection as information in these. I'd not go by the press release.

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16 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I think the break up ending up being the bigger event. It went from episode 1 till they got back together in episode 10. Then they had coitus in the next episode. I can seecoitus as a big event for the characters but not necessarily the viewer.

Then we agree. That's what I meant, that it was a big deal for the characters. As far as I'm concerned I didn't care that much because I'm not a Shamy, and because I thought the split was handled horribly, and the reconciliation even more so. As it were I really didn't have a horse in the race, so it wasn't an extremely transcendental moment in any case.

14 hours ago, djsurrey said:

This viewer is coming up to a 26 year marriage anniversary before the end of the year, has four grown kids and could not care less what Sheldon and Amy are doing or not doing in bed.

What does the fact that you have been married for 26 years and have four grown kids have to do with anything? Is your view representative of everyone? I don't think so. Bearing that in mind I fail to see the relevance of what you  wrote.

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I kinda agree having coitus/sex even if it is Shamy is an actual non event. What they did for 5 years to lead to that point is more important. I could care less that Shamy are doing it, yeah about time lol. But it is a non event in the context of the show. IMO Leonard and Penny's wedding was susposed to be THE biggest milestone in the shows history. But they coulden't treat with it any less significance. Ahh Let's get married in Vegas, ahhhh you married your boyfriend their, ahhh was never brought up, ahhh I cheated two years ago, ahhh that's okay sweety I forgive you, ahhh I do. Ahh were married now lol. I mean that is what it was like, no care at all.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 I hate when plotlines tease Shenny or depict Sheldon and Penny as perfect while Amy and Leonard are depicted as manipulative and evil for comic relief.  The truth is if Shenny was the ultimate endgame it should have happened already, or Sheldon should have never been given a love interest.  Amy should have been introduced as another Leslie Winkle.  Leonard could have even dated Amy to annoy Sheldon even further.  

Personally, I preferred when Leonard was in relationships with someone other than Penny (Priya, Stephanie, even Alex would have been interesting to see).  He was much more confident and interesting.  However, anyone including Amy, Bernadette, Priya, Alex, Stephanie, etc. that pose a challenge are quickly turned into being mean or possessive or a cheater to elevate Penny.  Leonard has always pined for Penny.  Even when he was dating Priya, he was upset when he thought Raj and Penny slept together.  However, even though Penny doesn't seem to love Leonard, she does not like the idea of Leonard dating anyone else.  That is not fair.  You should not hold your partner hostage, simply because someone is threatening to interfere, if you do not truly love them.

During Season 4 and 5, Sheldon genuinely respected Amy.  He was jealous of Stuart and Leonard.  However, during Season 6, 7, and 8, when there were no romantic threats, more "Shenny" teases and more Shamy conflict ensued.  Sheldon lied to Kripke about having sex with Amy to save his reputation, but with no respect for Amy.  Sheldon could have broken up at anytime if he felt it was too much pressure and the whole Shenny arc could have been established.  Sheldon initiated the first breakup.  They could have remained broken up.  Sheldon could have broken up during the table episode despite being fed lines, because he clearly stopped repeating when Amy mentioned moving in.  Sheldon mentioned breaking up in 8.1 after Amy told him it was ok he was not perfect.  Sheldon is often depicted that his words are not deliberately hurtful.  However, why is Sheldon allowed to be jealous or upset about Amy when he threatened multiple attempts to breakup, is willing to throw Amy under the bus, and even at one point wished she was dead?     

Also, Sheldon asked Penny not to hurt his friend when he found out Penny was contemplating breaking up with Leonard.   Yet, Penny did not reciprocate the favor when Penny learned that Amy was debating her relationship with Sheldon.   Everyone teases Amy about not getting sex, but the moment Sheldon says he is ready, everyone wonders if it is the right time for him.  I wish Amy would have waited for marriage, but again Leonard and Amy just seem to be disposable.  Even Stuart was likable when he dated Penny (Batman comic debate with Sheldon), but he was also turned into a creepy disposable character too.  

Penny and Sheldon could have gotten together after 10 years of platonic friendship without ever even dating Leonard, Stuart, or Amy.  To create all this angst and drama to breakup two long term couples, only to elevate one golden couple at the expense of other characters is unnecessary.  

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I think any regular that is considered a threat to Penny is minimized to not take away from Penny being the hot one.  Priya, Stephanie, Alex, even Emily are very pretty, but the moment they garner attention, they are turned into a cheater, possessive, etc. and run off the show.  They forced Bernadette's voice to change and made her mean after marriage, even though I still adore her character.  Amy is kept frumpy and needy.  Bernadette and Amy were so much prettier during the princess makeovers and Amy looked amazing in the Star Trek uniform, but those moments are rare, all to elevate Penny.

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18 hours ago, Cryptokity said:

I think any regular that is considered a threat to Penny is minimized to not take away from Penny being the hot one.  Priya, Stephanie, Alex, even Emily are very pretty, but the moment they garner attention, they are turned into a cheater, possessive, etc. and run off the show.  They forced Bernadette's voice to change and made her mean after marriage, even though I still adore her character.  Amy is kept frumpy and needy.  Bernadette and Amy were so much prettier during the princess makeovers and Amy looked amazing in the Star Trek uniform, but those moments are rare, all to elevate Penny.

 

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Edited by JE7
Remove some comments before Tripper gats pissed lol
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Actually, I am very pro Shamy.  What I dislike is that after Season 5, the writers turned Amy into being manipulative, needy, and whiny and Sheldon would deliberately insult her wishing she was dead, rather than his typical unintentional insults.  The point I was trying to make is that ever since season 6, the writers seem to paint Amy, Stuart, and Leonard in a bad light and I don't think they should do that with any of the characters.  I hate Shenny, but ever since Season 6, the writers started dropping minor hints that Sheldon is more comfortable with Penny and confides in her more than Amy which really upsets me.  Personally, it is difficult to watch anything beyond Season 5 finale because it seems like ever since season 6, Sheldon lost the mutual respect for Amy that he so strongly had in season 4 and 5.  This season Sheldon wins Amy back makes her a priority, and then she is not willing to take care of Sheldon when he is sick?  Why would the writers do something so cruel to put us through the angst of a breakup to make Sheldon a better person, but then depict Amy as selfish, mean, and uncaring?  So I apologize that my previous post was not clearer in making that point.

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4 minutes ago, Cryptokity said:

Actually, I am very pro Shamy.  What I dislike is that after Season 5, the writers turned Amy into being needy and whiny and Sheldon would deliberately insult her wishing she was dead, rather than unintentional insults.  The point I was trying to make is that ever since season 6, the writers seem to paint Amy, Stuart, and Leonard in a bad light and I don't think they should do that with any of the characters.  I hate Shenny, but ever since Season 6, the writers started dropping minor hints that Sheldon is more comfortable with Penny and confides in her more than Amy which really upsets me.  Personally, it is difficult to watch anything beyond Season 5 finale because it seems like ever since season 6, Sheldon lost the mutual respect for Amy that he so strongly had in season 4 and 5.  So I apologize that my previous post was not clearer in making that point.

Have you caught up with the recent episodes...?

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18 hours ago, Cryptokity said:

I think any regular that is considered a threat to Penny is minimized to not take away from Penny being the hot one.  Priya, Stephanie, Alex, even Emily are very pretty, but the moment they garner attention, they are turned into a cheater, possessive, etc. and run off the show.  They forced Bernadette's voice to change and made her mean after marriage, even though I still adore her character.  Amy is kept frumpy and needy.  Bernadette and Amy were so much prettier during the princess makeovers and Amy looked amazing in the Star Trek uniform, but those moments are rare, all to elevate Penny.

I apologize if i misread your intent, for the sake of clarity can you explain why you feel these changes are to elevate Penny as "the hot one" considering that many others have opined that Penny's "hotness" has been purposely toned down the last couple of seasons

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10 minutes ago, JE7 said:

I apologize if i misread your intent, for the sake of clarity can you explain why you feel these changes are to elevate Penny as "the hot one" considering that many others have opined that Penny's "hotness" has been purposely toned down the last couple of seasons

It just seems that the show is intent on proving Penny is better looking and sweeter than anyone else.  She can change her looks and her clothes, but the other female characters are not allowed to do so.  Bernadette was so adorable, but all of a sudden in season 8, Penny insinuates that Bernadette is a monster.  I like Amy, but they rarely let her kindness and beauty shine through.  I would like to see one female character on the show, that is not run off or turned into a mean and manipulative character.  

Penny was irresponsible for seven years.  However, magically in one season premiere 8, she has a new job and is more successful than Leonard who spent seven years taking care of her whether they were a couple or not.  Leonard cheating when he has always loved Penny is also OOC.  Penny may not have been with Leonard when she fooled around with Raj or married Zack, but she is not the saint she paints herself to be.  Thus, even though she is a little more covered up now, she is still depicted as more sophisticated and suddenly responsible, rather than making gradual, more realistic changes, that shouldn't require tearing down the other two female characters.  The crappy wedding and the psychiatrist couch scene in the last episode really worry me that Penny will have unresolved issues about Leonard's infidelity or quitting being an actress, even though she consciously made those choices.  I guess I just miss the happy characters and couples before everything became a popularity contest or shipping war.

 

1 hour ago, April said:

Have you caught up with the recent episodes...?

 

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35 minutes ago, Cryptokity said:

It just seems that the show is intent on proving Penny is better looking and sweeter than anyone else.  She can change her looks and her clothes, but the other female characters are not allowed to do so.  Bernadette was so adorable, but all of a sudden in season 8, Penny insinuates that Bernadette is a monster.  I like Amy, but they rarely let her kindness and beauty shine through.  I would like to see one female character on the show, that is not run off or turned into a mean and manipulative character.  

Penny was irresponsible for seven years.  However, magically in one season premiere 8, she has a new job and is more successful than Leonard who spent seven years taking care of her whether they were a couple or not.  Leonard cheating when he has always loved Penny is also OOC.  Penny may not have been with Leonard when she fooled around with Raj or married Zack, but she is not the saint she paints herself to be.  Thus, even though she is a little more covered up now, she is still depicted as more sophisticated and suddenly responsible, rather than making gradual, more realistic changes, that shouldn't require tearing down the other two female characters.  The crappy wedding and the psychiatrist couch scene in the last episode really worry me that Penny will have unresolved issues about Leonard's infidelity or quitting being an actress, even though she consciously made those choices.  I guess I just miss the happy characters and couples before everything became a popularity contest or shipping war.

 

 

Thank you and we'll said. While I don't agree with your interpretation of events I do see where you could reasonably feel the way you do, it a matter of perspective. We all see the show from our on individual view points. For example Penny is my favorite charecter and that colors my view of the show.

Many of the issues you mention bother me as well but i interpret them differently, for example I to am worried about the future story arc for Lenny after what Penny said on the couch.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion even if I dont agree with it, but I am curious about your view of Penny since it is very different than my own. Not trying to put words in your mouth but it seems you have a low opinion of penny if you would could you please give me your thoughts on the charecter? How do you see Penny? Which charecter is you fav? If your reluctent to post it here feal free to pm me, I think it would be an interesting discussion

 

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9 minutes ago, Cryptokity said:

It just seems that the show is intent on proving Penny is better looking and sweeter than anyone else.  She can change her looks and her clothes, but the other female characters are not allowed to do so.  Bernadette was so adorable, but all of a sudden in season 8, Penny insinuates that Bernadette is a monster.  I like Amy, but they rarely let her kindness and beauty shine through.  I would like to see one female character on the show, that is not run off or turned into a mean and manipulative character.  

Penny was irresponsible for seven years.  However, magically in one season premiere 8, she has a new job and is more successful than Leonard who spent seven years taking care of her whether they were a couple or not.  Leonard cheating when he has always loved Penny is also OOC.  Penny may not have been with Leonard when she fooled around with Raj or married Zack, but she is not the saint she paints herself to be.  Thus, even though she is a little more covered up now, she is still depicted as more sophisticated and suddenly responsible, rather than making gradual, more realistic changes, that shouldn't require tearing down the other two female characters.  The crappy wedding and the psychiatrist couch scene in the last episode really worry me that Penny will have unresolved issues about Leonard's infidelity or quitting being an actress, even though she consciously made those choices.  I guess I just miss the happy characters and couples before everything became a popularity contest or shipping war.

 

 

Comparing Penny with Amy and Bernie is kind of tricky. They are not "equal" characters (just look at the salary of the three actress...) Penny is a main character, more precisely, the main female character, so she usually gets more plots, more character developing, more focus on her. Amy this season got more attention than usual, it's true, but it is a consequence of being involved with a main character; regardless, many of us Shamy fans feel that all thing considered she is very often just a tool to prove some points about Sheldon and there isn't much focus on her. Bernie is a secondary character involved with a secondary character, so  she is the less developed character. Anyway, trying to make a comparison, for me the point is that Penny, Amy and Bernie represent three very different kind of women, so it appears natural  that they also dress and behave in different ways. Amy is very confident in her looks,  she likes the way she dresses and has stated on more occasions (the last one being when she has just broken up with Sheldon, traditionally the ideal moment for women to change their wardrobe, hair and so on) that she doesn't want to change it. And Bernie has been a little bossy since she got her fancy job. It was clear by her behavior with Howard since then, so it sounds natural she is even bossier at work and now that Penny kind of works with her she can notice it too. Penny has grown so much in the last two years,. She gave up her dreams about acting and chose a safer job that made her a more independent and confident woman. She finally overcame her issues about commitment and decided to marry the love of her life, even forgiving him for his "infidelity".  In the last episode, she doesn't even mention it as part of her problems and with a psychiatrist you are supposed to focus on what really bothers you.  She showed, indeed,  to have some issues about her job and the way her life is, nothing so dramatic or that could put into question her marriage as it is. She is not perfect, as the other girls are not perfect, and her life is not perfect. I don't feel she shines at the expense of the other female characters, anyway...If it was the case, she should have had the fancy wedding, while as you noticed, Lenny's wedding was worse than Howardette's one.

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11 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Comparing Penny with Amy and Bernie is kind of tricky. They are not "equal" characters (just look at the salary of the three actress...) Penny is a main character, more precisely, the main female character, so she usually gets more plots, more character developing, more focus on her. Amy this season got more attention than usual, it's true, but it is a consequence of being involved with a main character; regardless, many of us Shamy fans feel that all thing considered she is very often just a tool to prove some points about Sheldon and there isn't much focus on her. Bernie is a secondary character involved with a secondary character, so  she is the less developed character. Anyway, trying to make a comparison, for me the point is that Penny, Amy and Bernie represent three very different kind of women, so it appears natural  that they also dress and behave in different ways. Amy is very confident in her looks,  she likes the way she dresses and has stated on more occasions (the last one being when she has just broken up with Sheldon, traditionally the ideal moment for women to change their wardrobe, hair and so on) that she doesn't want to change it. And Bernie has been a little bossy since she got her fancy job. It was clear by her behavior with Howard since then, so it sounds natural she is even bossier at work and now that Penny kind of works with her she can notice it too. Penny has grown so much in the last two years,. She gave up her dreams about acting and chose a safer job that made her a more independent and confident woman. She finally overcame her issues about commitment and decided to marry the love of her life, even forgiving him for his "infidelity".  In the last episode, she doesn't even mention it as part of her problems and with a psychiatrist you are supposed to focus on what really bothers you.  She showed, indeed,  to have some issues about her job and the way her life is, nothing so dramatic or that could put into question her marriage as it is. She is not perfect, as the other girls are not perfect, and her life is not perfect. I don't feel she shines at the expense of the other female characters, anyway...If it was the case, she should have had the fancy wedding, while as you noticed, Lenny's wedding was worse than Howardette's one.

:shy:

_20160112_070923.JPG

Edited by JE7
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1 hour ago, Cryptokity said:

Then why does every poll ask who Penny should end up with and who is the best looking female character?  I understand three different types of women are being showcased, but every poll seems insistent on proving who is the "best" rather than celebrating the diversity.

Because, as I said, she is the main character among those three, so she gets more attention, success in polls, interviews, fans and because she is, indeed, in the show (I'm not comparing the actresses here, just the characters)  the prettiest among the three. The show has always been about the hot girl with the nerds as a matter of fact, but I don't think this diminishes Amy and Bernadette by any means. Bernie and Amy (again, the characters, not the actresses), for example, are more passionate about their work and their hobbies than she is.  Each of them has her own characteristics, IMO.

Edited by mirs1
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5 hours ago, Cryptokity said:

Then why does every poll ask who Penny should end up with and who is the best looking female character?  I understand three different types of women are being showcased, but every poll seems insistent on proving who is the "best" rather than celebrating the diversity.

Where are these polls you're talking about?

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That poll goes back a few years,(back to season three, if I remember correctly) it is part of the main site here. As for the polls, none of them we have here has anything to do with how the characters are portrayed.  This is an unofficial site, and is not connected to the show.  Those polls are there for a bit of fun, and to see how the fans feel about the characters.  

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