Debate Zone [Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9

[SRAM]

2 minutes ago, Cindi May said:

I see what the writers are showing of him of course, he's a character, he doesn't exists. He was perfectly normal until his confession. How is it possible the writers didn't know? They write the show. Probably they were knowing for a while before writing it.

During interviews the writers said they don't plan episode more than a couple in advance, so they just thought up that drama a couple weeks before the episode was taped.

[legacy99]

Cindi may a couple pages back you said the writers are lazy and probably won't write the season finale untill just before they need yet your saying the boat kiss was planned 2 years in advance

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[Cindi May]

2 minutes ago, SRAM said:

During interviews the writers said they don't plan episode more than a couple in advance, so they just thought up that drama a couple weeks before the episode was taped.

But they planned Sheldon's first time one year in advance.

[vasu]

57 minutes ago, Cindi May said:

57 minutes ago, Cindi May said:

I never said that. What?

 

56 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Cindi may a couple pages back you said the writers are lazy and probably won't write the season finale untill just before they need yet your saying the boat kiss was planned 2 years in advance

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

 

I guess this answers your question... I do not have the time or patieence to dig out your older posts.....and apparently legacy99 already did the research..... 

[vonmar]

Just now, SRAM said:

That is just poor writing, making up drama two years later, then not even writing so it makes sense.

Interesting..when Sheldon is an ass it's because he is "Sheldon", Sheldon sucks, Sheldon ruins everything, everything is about Sheldon.  When Leonard is portrayed as doing something dicey, it's poor writing?

In some cases people declare that the character is horrible, but in other cases the writing is horrible. Which is it? 

[vasu]

1 minute ago, vonmar said:

Interesting..when Sheldon is an ass it's because he is "Sheldon", Sheldon sucks, Sheldon ruins everything, everything is about Sheldon.  When Leonard is portrayed as doing something dicey, it's poor writing?

In some cases people declare that the character is horrible, but in other cases the writing is horrible. Which is it? 

lol I just asked the same question in a post in this  thread to @Cindi May  just few minutes back.....   (copy cat @vonmar lol )

however sheldon and leonard were reversed in her/his (no idea sorry ) case.....

Edited March 16, 2016 by vasu

[SRAM]

1 minute ago, Cindi May said:

But they planned Sheldon's first time one year in advance.

They have stated many times in many panels and interviews that they plan only a couple episodes ahead, so if they did plan Sheldon's first time a year ahead that is a deviation from how they have always been writing the show.

[Cindi May]

I never said the boat kiss was planned 2 years before but it could be planned in advance. We don't know what they plan in advance or what they write at the last minute. No one of us is in the writers 'room. I said they planned Sheldon's first time a long time before it aired. Who knows what happened with leonard's story? No one knows.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Cindi May

[Nogravitasatall]

50 minutes ago, vasu said:

 that does excuse the character...... what is shown is shown...it may a writers fault .....

 from a character point of view........him not telling penny for 2 year is cheating.......

He confessed. Penny went ahead and married him. Why the problem?

Though, tbh, she could be a lot more attentive to Leonard, instead of coddling the cuckoo in the nest and strangling her marriage. If Leonard was inclined to stray once married, Diana Windsor would be on his side. There isn't room for three people in a marriage - the whole show could come a cropper, if they move to a later timeslot. It's madness that Leonard doesn't either bang* Sheldon off his own bat, or move himself and his wife out of there. One or the other. Otherwise he is digging a hole for his marriage. I guess they could make that funny. But the pandering is ludicrous and the premise is zombified.

And if Sheldon is a competent person, he should volunteer to move.

Imagine S11. Talk about "the horror" .

 

*in the colloquial sense

 

[Tensor]

56 minutes ago, vonmar said:

In some cases people declare that the character is horrible, but in other cases the writing is horrible. Which is it? 

It's the writing.  But, I don't see a difference between saying the writers are at fault, or the character is at fault as a shorthand for the writers are at fault.

 

  

[Carlos]

2 hours ago, Cindi May said:

But remember: once a cheater always a cheater.

Hhhhhhmmmm actually, no. Do you mean to say that if a person makes a mistake once they can be branded and labeled that for the rest of their lives? As I see it Leonard cheated once with Alice. I know the kiss with Mandy is supposed to be canon, but in reality IMO the writers pulled it out of their asses since for me at least it was totally OOC. I don't think Leonard would have ever cheated on Penny. And then kept it secret for 2 years? Puh-leeze! I know many people think differently but that's my opinion. Also the reason I don't agree with your statement is that a person is the sum of ALL his/her actions, and not just an isolated incident. Just my take on it.

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

Interesting..when Sheldon is an ass it's because he is "Sheldon", Sheldon sucks, Sheldon ruins everything, everything is about Sheldon.  When Leonard is portrayed as doing something dicey, it's poor writing?

In some cases people declare that the character is horrible, but in other cases the writing is horrible. Which is it? 

The thing is, vonmar, that the way Sheldon is being written is him being an ass lots and lots of times, so much so, that it is almost a character trait. Btw I'm calling it being an ass because that's what you called it, but just to be clear,  what it signifies for me is when he's unreasonable, petty, pedantic, dismissive, cruel, selfish, etc. Actually when they say that's just Sheldon being Sheldon, it is to justify him and give him a free pass, so I don't know how that works towards making your point.

All of that being said about Sheldon, I don't think he's a horrible character. That's just the way he is. He also has good character traits, so... 

When is it then horrible writing? IMO it is when the character's actions are not coherent with the character itself, when TPTB show a person to be a certain way, then only to ignore canon and make him/her  appear in whichever unrealistic way just to serve a particular plot. As far as horrible writing I've spotted more and more these last 2 seasons.

[vasu]

1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

He confessed. Penny went ahead and married him. Why the problem?

Though, tbh, she could be a lot more attentive to Leonard, instead of coddling the cuckoo in the nest and strangling her marriage. If Leonard was inclined to stray once married, Diana Windsor would be on his side. There isn't room for three people in a marriage - the whole show could come a cropper, if they move to a later timeslot. It's madness that Leonard doesn't either bang* Sheldon off his own bat, or move himself and his wife out of there. One or the other. Otherwise he is digging a hole for his marriage. I guess they could make that funny. But the pandering is ludicrous and the premise is zombified.

And if Sheldon is a competent person, he should volunteer to move.

Imagine S11. Talk about "the horror" .

 

*in the colloquial sense

 

she could be.... but she is not....by her choice.... says a lot about her feeling towards leonard and sheldon...........

and as far as leonard is concerned.......... his spine was removed long time back.... so no chance of him doing anything you suggested....

[SRAM]

2 hours ago, Cindi May said:

I agree that it was probably worse with Penny because he actually didn't show any remorse for like what a year? But remember: once a cheater always a cheater.

Then you should address Penny's cheating too, because she has admitted cheating several times when she was younger and she was talking about sex not kissing.  So if once a cheater always a cheater, Penny is worse than Leonard according to your logic.  Do you remember her saying things like 'it seems you can't go back and un dry hump another girls boyfriend', 'I didn't go to the prom with the captain of the football team but I made out with him afterward', then there was something she said about doing her boyfriends friend or brother while still being his girlfriend.  Penny was a hell of a cheater when she was younger, so that means she is trash according to you, much worse than Leonard.  And don't give me some story about Leonards is worse because it is recent, you said once a cheater always a cheater, so that is either true or bullsquirt.

BTW I never heard Penny show remorse for anything she did when younger associated with her cheating.

[Chrismo]

3 hours ago, Cindi May said:

I agree that it was probably worse with Penny because he actually didn't show any remorse for like what a year? But remember: once a cheater always a cheater.

So since Sheldon has been an a hole numerous times on the show that must mean he's always an a hole?

[Nogravitasatall]

1 hour ago, vasu said:

she could be.... but she is not....by her choice.... says a lot about her feeling towards leonard and sheldon...........

and as far as leonard is concerned.......... his spine was removed long time back.... so no chance of him doing anything you suggested....

I hate to say it, but there is something to this. I could understand it before, but the premise is now very thin. They really need to show that Leonard-the-ogreslayer can stand up to Sheldon-the-barely-competent -human-being.

But I don't blame the character as much as you, because I can see that he had it in him before. Its just gone now.

[mirs1]

5 hours ago, Cindi May said:

But they planned Sheldon's first time one year in advance.

Well, they had a date for it, the premiere of the movie, so they knew in advance when it was meant to happen. There wasn't such a thing  for the kiss on the boat. 

[Stephen Hawking]

10 hours ago, vasu said:

however Leonard on the other hand cannot be trusted.

You're not suggesting Leonard and Amy, are you?

9 hours ago, vasu said:

all the characters have made drunken mistakes.

I'm not sure you can include Sheldon and Amy in that.

9 hours ago, vasu said:

I think almost all the characters in the show can be labelled as cheaters...... and yes it includes Sheldon.

When did Sheldon ever cheat on anyone?

For that matter, when did Amy?

9 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

The boat was unfortunate, but he is not a serial cheater.

How many time do you need to cheat, to make you a serial cheater?

Edited March 16, 2016 by Stephen Hawking

[SRAM]

This cheating thing is really blown out of proportion, Penny is suppose to be the offended party but through her own admission she has cheated way more than Leonard and some of her cheating involved sex, so she wins.  Also, in the episode at the bar, after Penny left in a huff dragging Sheldon to Asian Fusion, Amy and Bernadette let Leonard know that Penny lies to him all the time, that to me is as bad as cheating because how can you trust someone who lies to you without guilt.

[hokie3457]

Denigrating these particular characters in this manner is getting extremely old.  "Leonard is a cheater. He sucks."  "Well Penny cheated before.  She sucks worse!".  This is so tiresome and not productive at all.  The cheating (in my opinion) is blown out of proportion.  The worst part (for me) is Leonard being too afraid to tell Penny.  A lie of omission is still a lie, but you (at least I) can look past that because of his actions as a whole as far as Penny is concerned. 

Penny's indiscretions came years before she knew Leonard and when she was emotionally immature and perhaps swayed by expectations and the certain group she associated with.  Not to excuse anyone anywhere, but circumstances are extenuating....I really hope we can stop talking about this....

[Chrismo]

5 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

 

How many time do you need to cheat, to make you a serial cheater?

 

11 hours ago, Chrismo said:

So since Sheldon has been an a hole numerous times on the show that must mean he's always an a hole?

So all the serial cheater commenters must agree with that. Or maybe we could use the same excuse Sheldon fans use . He doesn't mean it or he doesn't know any better.

[vasu]

8 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

You're not suggesting Leonard and Amy, are you?

I'm not sure you can include Sheldon and Amy in that.

When did Sheldon ever cheat on anyone?

For that matter, when did Amy?

How many time do you need to cheat, to make you a serial cheater?

sheldon and amy did not make any drunken mistakes (as in do the things they did not want to do when sober).....??? you might want to watch the series again

for me cheating does not only mean kissing anyone or having sex with anyone....

amy was so desperate for some physical action from Sheldon that she lied about her being sick or something..... isn't that cheating....

and how many times has sheldon thrown his friends under the bus.... isn't that cheating on your friendship......

 

[Stephen Hawking]

2 minutes ago, vasu said:

amy was so desperate for some physical action from Sheldon that she lied about her being sick or something..... isn't that cheating....

Not when it's with your partner.

You can't cheat with your partner, only on them.

3 minutes ago, vasu said:

and how many times has sheldon thrown his friends under the bus.... isn't that cheating on your friendship......

No. It may be disloyal, but it's not cheating on them.

[vasu]

8 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Not when it's with your partner.

You can't cheat with your partner, only on them.

No. It may be disloyal, but it's not cheating on them.

for you may be........for me its no different........

and to give an example about amy..... 

she while being on a date with someone else tries to romance sheldon.....  as she did it more than once.....

once when she was on a date with stuart and then with the tall guy.......

if someone else did this to her..... she would be brooding all day......

Edited March 16, 2016 by vasu

[SRAM]

4 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Denigrating these particular characters in this manner is getting extremely old.  "Leonard is a cheater. He sucks."  "Well Penny cheated before.  She sucks worse!".  This is so tiresome and not productive at all.  The cheating (in my opinion) is blown out of proportion.  The worst part (for me) is Leonard being too afraid to tell Penny.  A lie of omission is still a lie, but you (at least I) can look past that because of his actions as a whole as far as Penny is concerned. 

Penny's indiscretions came years before she knew Leonard and when she was emotionally immature and perhaps swayed by expectations and the certain group she associated with.  Not to excuse anyone anywhere, but circumstances are extenuating....I really hope we can stop talking about this....

Your right, this is beyond ridiculous, but the Leonard haters still want to label Leonard as a serial cheater to put him down.  How many times have they said 'once a cheater, always a cheater'.  Well I'm just pointing out that applies to Penny too, so basically they are made for each other, they both forgive each other and that is the end of it.

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

5 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Denigrating these particular characters in this manner is getting extremely old.  "Leonard is a cheater. He sucks."  "Well Penny cheated before.  She sucks worse!".  This is so tiresome and not productive at all.  The cheating (in my opinion) is blown out of proportion.  The worst part (for me) is Leonard being too afraid to tell Penny.  A lie of omission is still a lie, but you (at least I) can look past that because of his actions as a whole as far as Penny is concerned. 

Penny's indiscretions came years before she knew Leonard and when she was emotionally immature and perhaps swayed by expectations and the certain group she associated with.  Not to excuse anyone anywhere, but circumstances are extenuating....I really hope we can stop talking about this....

Someone remind me when Penny cheated - I'm drawing a blank!