Debate Zone [Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9

[Judith]

32 minutes ago, JE7 said:

No but apparently you do, producing is not just for failed actors and pursuing your passion is not failure. You have avoided saying it outright but you have made your feelings clear when you said the show folds without Jim then denigrated the other two main actors

Ok then...

Producing isn't just for failed actors. It's something that actors often turn to when they realize that their career is probably not going to go far after their current acting position and whatever they do after that won't be able to compare. Producing is also for people who like producing. One doesn't exclude the other. Johnny might not even care about his acting career after the show but he wasn't born yesterday, he knows the nature of the business. Him or Kaley following a different path doesn't mean they failed.

I just said a few posts above that if Johnny and Kaley leave the show will fall apart, but keep going, this is certainly entertaining.

I see where this is going so I'm not going to answer again. I think I made myself perfectly clear.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Judith

[hokie3457]

Um. Okay. Producing can be a huge responsibility depending on the project. Many actors (NOT failed actors!) want to participate in a project in a more controlling way. They would like to become involved in the creative process. Are actors who turn to directing failures? Are they washed up as actors? What about actors who want to write screenplays or teleplays or flat out plays? Is Sam Shepard a failure as an actor because he wants to write? He is an acclaimed author and has received accolades for his acting as well.  Producing for actors of a successful project is a way to invest their talent and money to make something their own. 

I apologize for my tone, but really!

Edited March 25, 2016 by hokie3457
Spelling error

[Tensor]

 

31 minutes ago, Judith said:

This is the reality of actors that come off sitcoms that have lasted for a decade or so. I'm just mentioning what happens most of the time.

I never mentioned Jim, except for the salary thing. I certainly didn't compare him to them. Do you carry a chip on your shoulder about him?

But you did go out of your way to denigrate  Johnny and Kaley.  Why them and  not the failure, until TBBT, Jim?   Obviously they have had the much more successful careers. 

31 minutes ago, Judith said:

@Etienne

Being a working actor for decades certainly can be considered a success over all the struggling actors who can't seem to manage to land a role. Other than that, there are different levels of success within the industry itself. It's very unlikely that they will be able to top their individual success in TBBT after the show ends.

But who are you to decide what is a success to these people?   You never mentioned levels of success, until it was pointed out that Kaley and Johnny have had a long successful career.  They made the difficult transition from child/teen actor, to adult actor.   Your contention that they are somehow failures for wanting more than just acting success is really a rather low blow.   Jim was basically a failure prior to TBBT, but you choose to focus and denigrate the two who have been the most successful.   

Yeah, who thought Johnny was going to be able to top his individual success on the number one show "Roseanne".  And the failure that is John Goodman, Laurie Metcalfe, Sara Gilbert.  

 Or take Ron Howard.  He acted in several pictures, not because he wanted to, but because he was asked to act.  What he did was to act, with the stipulation that he get to direct another movie.  He wanted to direct, not act.  Yet he was wanted for his acting.   

[wannabechef07]

You guys/gals keep talking. I'll be here lurking and watching Haikyuu! :D  Karasuno Fight! lol bye

[Judith]

20 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

But you did go out of your way to denigrate  Johnny and Kaley.  Why them and  not the failure, until TBBT, Jim?   Obviously they have had the much more successful careers. 

But who are you to decide what is a success to these people?   You never mentioned levels of success, until it was pointed out that Kaley and Johnny have had a long successful career.  They made the difficult transition from child/teen actor, to adult actor.   Your contention that they are somehow failures for wanting more than just acting success is really a rather low blow.   Jim was basically a failure prior to TBBT, but you choose to focus and denigrate the two who have been the most successful.   

Yeah, who thought Johnny was going to be able to top his individual success on the number one show "Roseanne".  And the failure that is John Goodman, Laurie Metcalfe, Sara Gilbert.  

 Or take Ron Howard.  He acted in several pictures, not because he wanted to, but because he was asked to act.  What he did was to act, with the stipulation that he get to direct another movie.  He wanted to direct, not act.  Yet he was wanted for his acting.   

Denigrating to you means talking about what happens to the careers of actors that come off sitcoms that have lasted for years? I said nothing about their actibng abilities. And my god, Jim is going to face the same difficulties. Are you satisfied now? Is that what you wanted to hear? I didn't compare them in any way. I was specifically talking about Johnny and Kaley.

Personal success is different for everyone. They might be satisfied with whatever they do after but a successful acting career means more roles, awards, success of the show/character, etc. I didn't mention levels of success because to me what I meant was clear. My intention isn't to tell that Johnny and Kaley are failures or that what they have managed to do isn't a success in and of itself. But, after TBBT ends, what are their odds? In duplicating that success, I mean.

I don't appreciate you assigning intentions to my posts that aren't there. When did I say that they are failures for wanting more than an acting career? Quote me.

 

[hokie3457]

^^^^^quoting you "what are their odds" insinuates failure, or not being able to replicate their present employment...

[Tensor]

2 minutes ago, Judith said:

I don't appreciate you assigning intentions to my posts that aren't there. When did I say that they are failures for wanting more than an acting career? Quote me.

You mean this:

1 hour ago, Judith said:

I'm talking about a successful acting career. Kaley knows that an HBO movie and a guest-star role will probably be the most she will get. I think Johnny is in a worse position. Both her and Johnny are free to do whatever else they want. Being a horse rider is something completely different and producing is something that many actors that for one reason or another believe they're not going to go far in acting turn to. Not saying that he doesn't want to do it either though. Just being realistic.

I didn't even mention Parsons.

You may not think so, but that looks like you are saying they will be failures after the show.

[Judith]

20 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

^^^^^quoting you "what are their odds" insinuates failure, or not being able to replicate their present employment...

Yes, what are their odds of duplicating their TBBT success is what I said. Because they most likely won't be able to.

18 minutes ago, Tensor said:

You mean this:

You may not think so, but that looks like you are saying they will be failures after the show.

Again, realistically she won't get much or better after the show. Same goes for Johnny. That doesn't mean they're failures. Just how things work in this business. TBBT will probably be the peak of their careers. ACTING careers.

What I don't understand @Tensor is why you made a fuss about me not saying from the beginning thatJ and K are already successful as actors because they've already done things when my point was about their careers after the show. Why is it so important to you that I include that when that wasn't even my point?

Edited March 25, 2016 by Judith

[camelliayao]

I'm not criticizing the characters here but can I say Penny comes as a little odd to me regarding Sheldon theses days...

I think Sheldon's attitude towards Penny is consistent. She is a mother/sister figure to him. I don't see anything beyond that from his behavior. Even in the latest episode, the thing that Amy's jealous of is Penny can get Sheldon to take medicine. That's something Sheldon's mother would do.

But Penny? I don't know how to describe it but she seems overly enthusiastic when it comes to Sheldon, especially compared with her indifference attitude towards Leonard. I'm not talking about the latest episode, but this whole season. She forgot her own husband's birthday. However, when it comes to Sheldon's birthday, she prepared everything. She even got a little nervous because she was afraid they would be behind schedule.

When Sheldon comes to Penny for help, Penny's suggestions usually don't help much. Like in The Comic Book Store Regeneration or The Celebration Experimentation, Penny's comfort didn't make Sheldon feel better. On the contrary, when Penny comes to Sheldon, she usually finds his suggestions helpful.

And it makes me wonder where the writers are going with this. If they keep portraying Penny like this, it's only a matter of time that Penny finally finds out she's happier with Sheldon and maybe we'll get another "Penny&Raj waking up in the same bed", only this time it's Sheldon.

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by camelliayao

[nibbler747]

5 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

And it makes me wonder where the writers are going with this. If they keep portraying Penny like this, it's only a matter of time that Penny finally finds out she's happier with Sheldon and maybe we'll get another "Penny&Raj waking up in the same bed", only this time it's Sheldon.

 

That's a spicy comment to start off the morning!  I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonards friendship. I just don't think TPTB would do that.

[legacy99]

And it makes me wonder where the writers are going with this. If they keep portraying Penny like this, it's only a matter of time that Penny finally finds out she's happier with Sheldon and maybe we'll get another "Penny&Raj waking up in the same bed", only this time it's Sheldon.

 

That's a spicy comment to start off the morning!  I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonards friendship. I just don't think TPTB would do that.

It would destroy lenny but sheldon would get a pass because he doesn't know better it would be just beating on leonard again. just a little sarcastic today

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And it makes me wonder where the writers are going with this. If they keep portraying Penny like this, it's only a matter of time that Penny finally finds out she's happier with Sheldon and maybe we'll get another "Penny&Raj waking up in the same bed", only this time it's Sheldon.  

That's a spicy comment to start off the morning!  I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonards friendship. I just don't think TPTB would do that.

It would destroy lenny but sheldon would get a pass because he doesn't know better it would be just beating on leonard again. just a little sarcastic today

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[2L344]

4 minutes ago, nibbler747 said:

That's a spicy comment to start off the morning!  I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonards friendship. I just don't think TPTB would do that.

not to mention irreversably changing Shamy, that relationship and friendship wouldnt recover from that. To make a huge celebration of coitus finally happening with the  "innocence" of that coupling, and then to completely destroy it with an affair? the writers would be out of their minds if they think that would fly on this show.

[Tonstar17]

This is tptb we are talking about. They will make Leonard forgive them both and probably give them his blessing or if it's a one night stand like Jim wishes. They will make Leonard forgive penny. So I wouldn't put it past them. The only obstacles is that I don't think tptb will go there while they are married but the way things are going Lenny maybe heading for a separation that could make it happen. I can see some of camelli point I have even noticed it myself and it kinda looks like penny is falling for Sheldon because I don't buy this brother/sister/mother thing because they are making it too sexual for sibbling and they are not related. It's seems like a way of putting us of the scent while they keep slowly testing the audience to see their reactions and how far they can go before they drop the bombshell if that's where tptb is heading with this.

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[Tensor]

5 minutes ago, Judith said:

Again, realistically she won't get much or better after the show. Same goes for Johnny. That doesn't mean they're failures. Just how things work in this business. TBBT will probably be the peak of their careers. ACTING careers.

Again, neither will Jim get anything better,  nor Mayim, nor  Simon, nor Melissa,  nor Kunal.  The show could be simply one of the peaks in their career.    Peak could mean different things to different people.  Johnny had a peak with Roseanne, Mayim had a peak with Blossom, Jim had several peaks with shows on Broadway.   Kaley had a peak with Eight Simple Rules (yeah the show was cancelled after, but she thinks quite well of her time there).  If you're saying the peak is being on the most watched/highest rated comedy, I'd agree with you.  If you mean it as a creative peak, I might not.  But, I don't know what you meant, as the first message I answered, didn't specify.  

 

5 minutes ago, Judith said:

What I don't understand @Tensor is why you made a fuss about me not saying from the beginning thatJ and K are already successful as actors because they've already done things when my point was about their careers after the show. Why is it so important to you that I include that when that wasn't even my point?

Probably because I don't understand why you were so specific to Kaley and Johnny, (and didn't say anything about the other cast members) and insinuated, as I saw it, that they were some kind of failure.  You didn't specify what you meant by success. I felt their previous work was pertinent, as they have been wildly successful (before TBBT) in their career. You've since clarified, tis cool.  

[JE7]

1 hour ago, Cindi May said:

I seriously doubt that he wants to go after season 11. Kaley seems the more enthusiast of the big 3 bunch. She always says she would do 20 seasons but she's not the only one to decide so she can't.

Even when you say nothing bad about Kaley you make it sound like a put down, that's a talent

[legacy99]

Tptb have always said character and relationships develop slowly and i it's going to happen

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[camelliayao]

24 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

not to mention irreversably changing Shamy, that relationship and friendship wouldnt recover from that. To make a huge celebration of coitus finally happening with the  "innocence" of that coupling, and then to completely destroy it with an affair? the writers would be out of their minds if they think that would fly on this show.

It doesn't have to be a real one night stand. Maybe after Lenny had a fight, Penny went to Sheldon for comfort and the next morning they wake up in the same bed and with that, season 9 ends. They will come up with explanations like the Penny&Raj thing in the next season.

[Jonny]

Sheldon and Penny hook up? Man I can't see it, only possibility would be if they were both drunk like what we almost saw with Penny and Raj.

I have a hard time believing either would initiate something like this. Sheldon gives off a one woman vibe to me, It's Amy or nobody. Sheldon for all the stick he gives Leonard is like a brother to him, he wouldn't destroy him like that. Penny loves Sheldon like a brother, I don't see anything romantic there.

If it happens they really will have jumped the shark.

[Stephen Hawking]

39 minutes ago, nibbler747 said:

I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonard's friendship.

Not to mention what it would do to Shamy.  

[Cindi May]

54 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

That's a spicy comment to start off the morning!  I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonards friendship. I just don't think TPTB would do that.

 

It would destroy lenny but sheldon would get a pass because he doesn't know better it would be just beating on leonard again. just a little sarcastic today

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That's a spicy comment to start off the morning!  I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonards friendship. I just don't think TPTB would do that.

It would destroy lenny but sheldon would get a pass because he doesn't know better it would be just beating on leonard again. just a little sarcastic today

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I don't think they'll ever go there , to the point of sleeping together because that would be a lot to handle with in the show...but if something will ever happen between P and S I think it would be a  drunk kiss in a moment of confusion/tensions with Leonard and Amy. And maybe later they'll realize it was a mistake, that they don't want this thing to ruin their friendship... Something like that. Nothing that would create too many problems for future developments for the canon couples they're using over the years(Lenny and Shamy).

37 minutes ago, JE7 said:

Even when you say nothing bad about Kaley you make it sound like a put down, that's a talent

I said nothing bad at all about her...Kaley said this in some interviews. But anyway...

Edited March 25, 2016 by Cindi May

[JE7]

1 hour ago, Judith said:

It's something that actors often turn to when they realize that their career is probably not going to go far after their current acting position and whatever they do after that won't be able to compare.

 

4 hours ago, Judith said:

Their career prospects after the show is over are slim to none.

 

3 hours ago, Judith said:

for two actors in Johnny's and Kaley's positions and circumstances to succeed.

 

2 hours ago, Judith said:

I'm talking about a successful acting career. Kaley knows that an HBO movie and a guest-star role will probably be the most she will get. I think Johnny is in a worse position. 

To qoute darth stewie: should I go on I have a million of these

[SRAM]

Also why would they put Sheldon and Penny together, the average fan isn't a shipper and the ones that are, are mostly Shamy shippers than anything else, with Lenny shippers being second.  Why would TPTB alienate all those shippers to please a few Shenny shippers?

[Judith]

22 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Again, neither will Jim get anything better,  nor Mayim, nor  Simon, nor Melissa,  nor Kunal.  The show could be simply one of the peaks in their career.    Peak could mean different things to different people.  Johnny had a peak with Roseanne, Mayim had a peak with Blossom, Jim had several peaks with shows on Broadway.   Kaley had a peak with Eight Simple Rules (yeah the show was cancelled after, but she thinks quite well of her time there).  If you're saying the peak is being on the most watched/highest rated comedy, I'd agree with you.  If you mean it as a creative peak, I might not.  But, I don't know what you meant, as the first message I answered, didn't specify.  

 

Probably because I don't understand why you were so specific to Kaley and Johnny, (and didn't say anything about the other cast members) and insinuated, as I saw it, that they were some kind of failure.  You didn't specify what you meant by success. I felt their previous work was pertinent, as they have been wildly successful (before TBBT) in their career. You've since clarified, tis cool.  

The entire cast will have a difficult time after the show. I started posting in this thread talking about Kaley and Johnny and then I took it from there. I didn't want to involve Jim because evidently people are sensitive about comparisons between them and I didn't want to get into an endless cycle of arguements. I was talking strictly about whether they will at the very least be able to duplicate the success of TBBT in their acting careers. I never used the word failure, that's too heavy a word for something that isn't completely upto them anyway.

I'm glad you understand me now. It's all ok

[JE7]

46 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

That's a spicy comment to start off the morning!  I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonards friendship. I just don't think TPTB would do that.

 

It would destroy lenny but sheldon would get a pass because he doesn't know better it would be just beating on leonard again. just a little sarcastic today

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That's a spicy comment to start off the morning!  I say maybe it could happen except for the fact that it would completely destroy Sheldon and Leonards friendship. I just don't think TPTB would do that.

It would destroy lenny but sheldon would get a pass because he doesn't know better it would be just beating on leonard again. just a little sarcastic today

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Anything worth saying is worth saying twice lol 

[legacy99]

I get so confused sometimes and i panick

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