Debate Zone [Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9

[wowbagger]

Oh, yes, lord, I don't think a romantic Shenny would ever happen. I suspect the writers don't realise how.....off.... the dynamics between Sheldon and Penny seem right now. I truly don't think writers this reactionary would actually jeopardise a marriage between two of the leads. It's a CBS sitcom- no divorces are happening on this show.

That having been said, Penny is so weirdly and gauzily chummy with Sheldon right now that I wouldn't rule out a fight precipitated by Leonard's dad somehow, Amy taking Leonard's side, Sheldon commiserating with Penny and getting drunk (because Sheldon drinks now!) and a drunken kiss- because alcohol has to mediate Penny's first remotely sexual contact with any member of the male cast, remember? A drunken kiss with Sheldon pushing Penny away......but with just a leeetle too much delay, or perhaps with a somewhat....ambiguous.....expression? And..... cliffhanger!

So there'd be feverish speculation during the hiatus, with much poring over the tea-leaves in the episodes to come. And the whole thing would be swept under the carpet. Penny would come to her senses, say 'My God, what have I done?' and she and Leonard would maybe- just maybe- agree to move out (without doing anything about it, natch). Then the season would meander towards a Shamy wedding, with the writers taking plenty of care to insinuate that Amy wants the wedding because she has contractually stipulated that Sheldon has to have sex with her on the wedding night (#LOL #gaggingforit #thethingsAmy'lldotogettosecondbase), Amy would be a Bridezilla (#LOL #Chicksamirite?), and Penny would be Maid of Honour with Leonard being Sheldon's Best Man. And- and!- just seconds before Amy is to walk down the aisle with 'The Way You Look Tonight' playing and all eyes on her- someone would spill the beans about the kiss. And then Amy, lips quivering, would make a run for it. CLIFFHANGER!

And- I don't know- Penny would go after Leonard, and Penny would then sweetly, maternally, tell Sheldon to go after Amy, and then he would talk Amy off a ledge (in a suuuuuuuper romantic show of ESP, involving seeking her out in the comic book store for literally no reason other than that Stuart has to be involved and we need to be reminded that he wasn't invited to the wedding), and in all this the show would have forgotten that there are two friendships at stake here and maybe the appropriate thing to do would be to have Penny talk to Amy as well, and for Sheldon to talk to Leonard.

Oo, oo! And! And! Raj would still be trying to juggle multiple women! He would have probably invited three women as his date to the wedding, and there would be hiiii-larious hi-jinks that the show would insist on disrupting massive dramatic moments to show us! Priceless!

I mean, I'm pretty sure this won't happen. This all requires planning- not to mention memory!- of which our ADD-ridden writing staff seems frankly incapable at the moment. But just to say that I don't any more put it past the writers to throw up cataclysmic dramatic moments that they later hastily bury in the backyard.

Edited March 25, 2016 by wowbagger

[Cindi May]

29 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Just because Jim said he wants Sheldon to have a one-night stand with Penny, does not mean the writers will actually make that happen Lol. Doesn't matter if S/P are the most popular characters. If they hooked up, they would be like those bizzare pseudo step siblings/friends from Cruel Intentions. Haha

 

 

Maybe watching Game of Thrones together will inspire them to go Lannister.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Cindi May

[koops]

2 minutes ago, Tensor said:

4.24 The Roommate Transmogrification.

I don't think you can compare the two. Back then both Penny and Raj were single. As awkward and questionable as it can be to hook up with her ex's friend (or your friend's ex) neither Raj nor Penny technically betrayed anyone in that episode or did anything wrong. Here we are talking about Penny cheating on her husband with his best friend who also happen to be her close friend who is in an extremely delicate long-term relationship with her own best friend. And, similarly, we are talking about Sheldon cheating on his girlfriend that he has taken 6 years to be intimate with by bedding/kissing his best friend's wife. The order of magnitude of betrayal and destruction to Sheldon and Penny's characters would be unthinkable if they went that route. But maybe the general audience wouldn't care and the show could continue its merry way into S13, who knows. I'd like to give people more credit than that, but... yeah. *shudders*

[SRAM]

1 minute ago, wowbagger said:

Oh, yes, lord, I don't think a romantic Shenny would ever happen. I suspect the writers don't realise how.....off.... the dynamics between Sheldon and Penny seem right now. I truly don't think writers this reactionary would actually jeopardise a marriage between two of the leads. It's a CBS sitcom- no divorces are happening on this show.

That having been said, Penny is so weirdly and gauzily chummy with Sheldon right now that I wouldn't rule out a fight precipitated by Leonard's dad somehow, Amy taking Leonard's side, Sheldon commiserating with Penny and getting drunk (because Sheldon drinks now!) and a drunken kiss- because alcohol has to mediate Penny's first remotely sexual contact with any member of the male cast, remember? A drunken kiss with Sheldon pushing Penny away......but with just a leeetle too much delay, or perhaps with a somewhat....ambiguous.....expression? And..... cliffhanger!

So there'd be feverish speculation during the hiatus, with much poring over the tea-leaves in the episodes to come. And the whole thing would be swept under the carpet. Penny would come to her senses, say 'My God, what have I done?' and she and Leonard would maybe- just maybe- agree to move out (without doing anything about it, natch). Then the season would meander towards a Shamy wedding, with the writers taking plenty of care to insinuate that Amy wants the wedding because she has contractually stipulated that Sheldon has to have sex with her on the wedding night (#LOL #gaggingforit #thethingsAmy'lldotogettosecondbase), Amy would be a Bridezilla (#LOL #Chicksamirite?), and Penny would be Maid of Honour with Leonard being Sheldon's Best Man. And- and!- just seconds before Amy is to walk down the aisle with 'The Way You Look Tonight' playing and all eyes on her- someone would spill the beans about the kiss. And then Amy, lips quivering, would make a run for it. CLIFFHANGER!

And- I don't know- Penny would go after Leonard, and Penny would then sweetly, maternally, tell Sheldon to go after Amy, and then he would talk Amy off a ledge (in a suuuuuuuper romantic show of ESP, involving seeking her out in the comic book store for literally no reason than that Stuart has to be involved and we need to be reminded that he wasn't invited to the wedding), and in all this the show would have forgotten that there are two friendships at stake here and maybe the appropriate thing to do would be to have Penny talk to Amy as well, and for Sheldon to talk to Leonard.

Oo, oo! And! And! Raj would still be trying to juggle multiple women! He would have probably invited three women as his date to the wedding, and there would be hiiii-larious hi-jinks that the show would insist on disrupting massive dramatic moments to show us! Priceless!

I mean, I'm pretty sure this won't happen. This all requires planning- not to mention memory!- of which our ADD-ridden writing staff seems frankly incapable at the moment. But just to say that I don't any more put it past the writers to throw up cataclysmic dramatic moments that they later hastily bury in the backyard.

So married woman Penny can kiss on Sheldon, cheating on her husband and be forgiven, but Leonard who was only dating Penny drunken Kisses Mandy and he get crucified?

[Tensor]

1 minute ago, koops said:

I don't think you can compare the two. Back then both Penny and Raj were single. As awkward and questionable as it can be to hook up with her ex's friend (or your friend's ex) neither Raj nor Penny technically betrayed anyone in that episode or did anything wrong. Here we are talking about Penny cheating on her husband with his best friend who also happen to be her close friend who is in an extremely delicate long-term relationship with her own best friend. And, similarly, we are talking about Sheldon cheating on his girlfriend that he has taken 6 years to be intimate with by bedding/kissing his best friend's wife. The order of magnitude of betrayal and destruction to Sheldon and Penny's characters would be unthinkable if they went that route. But maybe the general audience wouldn't care and the show could continue its merry way into S13, who knows. I'd like to give people more credit than that, but... yeah. *shudders*

I was referring to the writers not taking chances.  While these would be even bigger chances, that was huge for where they were.  

[koops]

Just now, Tensor said:

I was referring to the writers not taking chances.  

Yeah, I know. I mean that that wasn't *that* huge a risk given the context (i.e. Raj and Penny being single etc etc). Sheldon and Penny are a way bigger risk to take, especially in the current setup. If Sheldon never got back together with Amy and Penny and Leonard had split after Mandy, I could see it equated to Raj and Penny hooking up (to an extent, because Sheldon being Sheldon it would be pretty controversial). But not at the moment. 

[SRAM]

3 minutes ago, koops said:

Yeah, I know. I mean that that wasn't *that* huge a risk given the context (i.e. Raj and Penny being single etc etc). Sheldon and Penny are a way bigger risk to take, especially in the current setup. If Sheldon never got back together with Amy and Penny and Leonard had split after Mandy, I could see it equated to Raj and Penny hooking up (to an extent, because Sheldon being Sheldon it would be pretty controversial). But not at the moment. 

You're right, if they wanted to do that, the first episode of season 9 would have the place to start by having Penny walk out from the wedding and them not get married.

This whole idea of Penny and Sheldon cheating on Leonard and Amy is right out of a Shenny fanfiction.

[Cindi May]

5 minutes ago, koops said:

Yeah, I know. I mean that that wasn't *that* huge a risk given the context (i.e. Raj and Penny being single etc etc). Sheldon and Penny are a way bigger risk to take, especially in the current setup. If Sheldon never got back together with Amy and Penny and Leonard had split after Mandy, I could see it equated to Raj and Penny hooking up (to an extent, because Sheldon being Sheldon it would be pretty controversial). But not at the moment. 

I think it would never happen in the current setup...it would only happen if both will have problems again with Leonard and Amy. At the same time.

[veejay]

20 minutes ago, JE7 said:

just keep telling yourself that my friend, you may be able to keep believing it 

  lol

[wowbagger]

9 minutes ago, SRAM said:

So married woman Penny can kiss on Sheldon, cheating on her husband and be forgiven, but Leonard who was only dating Penny drunken Kisses Mandy and he get crucified?

(blinks) in the completely hypothetical situation I was spit-balling, if Penny were to kiss Sheldon, I, personally, would give her as much stick or more than I gave Leonard for kissing that Chipped-Tooth Chippy. More, in fact. Far more. For the reasons that @koops and others have detailed, a Shenny entanglement at this stage would have drastic, far-reaching implications. My own hypothetical was just to indicate the sort of way that it might play out, and the sort of way that the showrunners would have it happen for shock value while completely ignoring the actual dirty bomb that a Shenny romantic/sexual anything would be.

[Tensor]

 

7 minutes ago, koops said:

Yeah, I know. I mean that that wasn't *that* huge a risk given the context (i.e. Raj and Penny being single etc etc). Sheldon and Penny are a way bigger risk to take, especially in the current setup. If Sheldon never got back together with Amy and Penny and Leonard had split after Mandy, I could see it equated to Raj and Penny hooking up (to an extent, because Sheldon being Sheldon it would be pretty controversial). But not at the moment. 

I agree, if they came up with that, I'd be gone.  I mean I'm close now, and a major problem  between L and P might push me over the edge,  but your scenario would definitely do it.  

I've seen things like they are setting up a big pay off, or something may lead to this, that or the other.  But, the big payoff isn't worth it to me, if I have to endure three years of crappy interaction between the ship I love.

BTW, it good to see you around again koops, I've missed you.   

[legacy99]

Can they use an excuse like penny and sheldon being drunk and doing something after using that twice for penny already zake marriage and raj

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Tonstar17]

Another thing that bugged me about the TR is if penny was a devoted wife, wouldn't she be manipulating Sheldon to get amendments to the RA to benefit her and her husband but it looked to me she was only doing to benefit herself. Some wife which makes me come to the conclusion, she doesn't really love her husband or is she just being selfish? I'll go with both at this moment in time.

#freeleonard

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

[Tensor]

1 minute ago, legacy99 said:

Can they use an excuse like penny and sheldon being drunk and doing something after using that twice for penny already zake marriage and raj

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Why not, they've recycled script ideas in the past.

[nibbler747]

29 minutes ago, SRAM said:

But that would be big time cheating between Sheldon and Penny.  Plus Penny is 'MARRIED', did everybody already forget all the crap about Leonard kissing Mandy when he wasn't even engaged?  

I was mentioning a hypothetical situation. It would be cheating, and Sheldon and Penny should both be held to the fire for that.  No free passes.   Hopefully this situation will never come to play on the show.

[vonmar]

I am so baffled by this whole P/S conversation.  I do not ever recall any scene ever that indicated that there was a romantic spark between those two.  I have never heard a Comic Con or PaleyFest panel where that pairing was discussed.  Where is this coming from?

Good thing it's happy hour because I'm going to need a few drinks if I'm going to keep reading this thread.  

(Correcting myself...there was a Comic Con panel several years ago where it came up as an audience question and Chuck was flabbergasted, Bill said that Penny would shoot him and Jim said that Sheldon isn't man enough for Penny and suggested that a P/S pairing would kill the show)

[koops]

7 minutes ago, Cindi May said:

I think it would never happen in the current setup...it would only happen if both will have problems again with Leonard and Amy. At the same time.

Which would be really scraping the bottom of the barrel, narratively. When shows start breaking up couples and pairing up people around with everyone else, even for one-offs, you know they've gone creatively bankrupt. One of the most appealing things of TBBT to me was always that they never toyed around with the idea of Penny being passed from guy to guy to guy (if we ignore Raj, which was obviously just meant for shock value - and a poor one at that). She was for Leonard and Leonard was for her, and when they were single they brought in external characters to play their new love interests. And, similarly for the other guys, they brought in external characters to become their love interests and the ones that worked stuck with them throughout. That's more true to life than the revolving door of hookups you get on all other shows. Plus, it's so refreshing to see a friendship between the two opposite-sex leads that is *not* defined by any romantic undertone. I would hate for that to be tainted.

4 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

I agree, if they came up with that, I'd be gone.  I mean I'm close now, and a major problem  between L and P might push me over the edge,  but your scenario would definitely do it.  

I've seen things like they are setting up a big pay off, or something may lead to this, that or the other.  But, the big payoff isn't worth it to me, if I have to endure three years of crappy interaction between the ship I love.

BTW, it good to see you around again koops, I've missed you.   

D'awwww Ten. I wish I could be back here under happier circumstances than bitching about all the things that annoy me  TBH, I only came back because I'm on Easter vacation and despite having stepped away mostly from the show I keep getting spoilers and the latest one just made me facepalm at 360 degrees. But I totally agree with you. I don't get the "big payoff" concept. I want to enjoy the journey. I couldn't care less if the destination is the most amazing thing if everything that comes before is dreadful to me. I'm pretty much at that stage with Shamy too. The breakup did massive damage to them for me and after those three hopeful episodes surrounding their reconciliation, the aftermath has been... underwhelming to say the least. 

[JE7]

3 minutes ago, vonmar said:

I am so baffled by this whole P/S conversation.  I do not ever recall any scene ever that indicated that there was a romantic spark between those two.  I have never heard a Comic Con or PaleyFest panel where that pairing was discussed.  Where is this coming from?

Good thing it's happy hour because I'm going to need a few drinks if I'm going to keep reading this thread.  

(Correcting myself...there was a Comic Con panel several years ago where it came up as an audience question and Chuck was flabbergasted, Bill said that Penny would shoot him and Jim said that Sheldon isn't man enough for Penny and suggested that a P/S pairing would kill the show)

That was a long time ago, things have changed charecter, ratings and profit wise

[Judith]

Is this TBBT forum or the Shenny corner of fanfiction.net?

Anyway, Penny's behaviour is a bit weird right now but I definitely don't think it indicates romantic feelings towards Sheldon. We should definitely wait for the episode to air, I think it will shed light in the situation. In the Shamy thread there are some very interesting discussions about where this is leading. As for Sheldon - I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone for typing this - there's no indication from his side about his feelings towards Penny being more than that of a friend. Well, there's no indication from Penny's side either but at least from her side you could squint your eyes and make a case, I guess.

But, for all that we have taping reports. Not that I think that any of all these fanficcy scenarios would ever happen, but let's say that one of them did...I would simply read the TR and then disappear faster than the speed of thought.

[Tonstar17]

You guys have your fairy tail dreams and I will have mine.

I'm sorry penny I just can't look at you right now, not even with that sexy nightie on. I'm still mad at you.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

[veejay]

.....again, following the last TR, TBBT meets GOT. The writers take us for a ride!

[vasu]

1 hour ago, koops said:

If you ask me, I think that whole episode sounds like a massive pile of illogical nonsense. 

1) If Amy is so jealous of Sheldon and Penny's closeness (and where does that come from out of nowhere, at this particular point in their relationship?!), why would she side with Leonard, thereby creating a scenario where Sheldon and Penny side with each other?! If anything, she should try to drive a wedge between Sheldon and Penny, not between herself and Sheldon, which is essentially what she ended up doing! 

2) Indeed, why is Penny all of a sudden a huge fan of the RA to the point that she gets into an argument with Leonard about it? She was ranting to Dr Gallo 6 episodes prior that she's fed up with the man child she's living with and being fined extra for toilet paper and now suddenly she's all over meetings and negotiating things with Sheldon? 

And that's just ignoring the rest of the nonsense like Amy suddenly faking liking bureaucracy all these years, Sheldon refusing to take medicines, Penny being into comic book questions, etc etc.

All in all, I agree with those who say that it's incredibly unlikely that the writers are brewing any sudden Shenny romance out of this. Incoherent writing? Sure. Frustrating writing that doesn't put the couples in a good light? Sure. Could they wake up the morning of the finale and decide to pull Shenny out of their rear ends? Sure. But masterminding some HIMYM twist all along? Unlikely. Also, I wouldn't put a lot of weight in Jim's comment. It was a game where he was asked what character would he like his character to have a one-night stand with. He couldn't have a one-night stand with Amy so that, if we go by the assumption Sheldon's straight, leaves Penny and Bernadette. His answer seems pretty straightforward to me in that context and, really, no more than a joke. 

1) Because she does not want to be one who directly does it, she wants others to do the work for her (or in this case Leonard). Amy is clever and cunning enough to think this through. Also she would clearly think the Leonard would be dumb enough to fall for her plan.

2) Penny may have been frustrated by living with Sheldon , but when it comes to arguments between Sheldon and Leonard.. Penny irrespective of who is correct or wrong , she almost always supports Sheldon.

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by vasu

[veejay]

Seriously? 

7 minutes ago, vasu said:

1) Because she does not want to be one who directly does it, she wants others to do the work for her (or in this case Leonard). Amy is clever and cunning enough to think this through.

2) She may have been frustrated by living with Sheldon , but when it comes to arguments between Sheldon and Leonard.. Penny irrespective of who is correct or wrong , she almost always supports Sheldon.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by veejay

[Nogravitasatall]

On 24 March 2016 at 11:00 PM, No Regrets said:

Um, hi guys. Thought I'd chime in here. I've said a few weeks ago that I think Penny's still afraid of losing Leonard and is still pushing him away. I don't see this emotionally abusive wife that others seem to see. In last week's TR we found out she's been staying at a job she loathes because she thought it was important to her husband - so that doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't love their partner. 

I don't remember who said it, but they said that because the characters finally said it out loud how weird it all is (Shenny), that's a good sign that things will change. Do I think the writers will crap on a character in order to get a joke out of it? Yes. Do I think it's so bad that we should basically all jump ship? No.

1. Art imitates life again. Lol/*sigh*

2.  I so much want change. Not nostalgia, but some hopefulness in the show. Maybe that's the watchword. But funnily, I'm not that hopeful.

 

[vasu]

7 minutes ago, veejay said:

Seriously? 

 

tell me the last time whenever Sheldon and Leonard had an argument/issue and Penny has supported Leonard.

The last time I remember was during the tenure...  

If I forgot anything , please enlighten me...