Debate Zone [Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9

[nibbler747]

20 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Do you think Amy in season 4 would be attracted to a man who goes to Vegas with his friends? Who admits he has feelings? Who acts like a giant infant and puts little pink umbrella over his head? Who cries just by talking about his roommate moving out?

The truth is they've both changed. They've both become less quirky. I don't know why it's Ok for Sheldon to change but not Amy. And I never believe for a second that Amy loves Sheldon because of his quirks. She fell in love with him because of his brilliance, his brain, his love for science and maybe his appearance. She's always had mix feelings about his quirks. Sometimes they make her love him more, sometimes she hates them.

Amy was quite different from Sheldon from the beginning. And if she has to go back to season 4 where she had no friends and no social life and was always cold and condescending rather than happy and kind to be a perfect match for Sheldon, well maybe they should break up. Maybe Sheldon can go find Beveley and Amy can find someone who has the "romantic novel level" kind of romance. (Boy I have no idea that I've been living in a romantic novel level of life. You know, my boyfriend just occasionally shows some affection towards me and we have sex more than once. I don't know today's romantic novel has sank this low). I don't see the meaning of a relationship if one person is already so patient, so understanding, so supportive but she's not good enough, because she doesn't love another person's EVERYTHING from the bottom of her heart.

So Sheldon honey, dump Amy! 'Cause she doesn't love the RA meeting! And she wants traditional romance and regular sex! How dare she! Go find someone who loves everything about you from their heart. I doubt you'll find one. But who knows. Besides you can always end up with Leonard's mother, even though she's so cold and has zero love for anyone, but hey, she gets your quirks (once in a season) and that's the most important thing! o(╯□╰)o

Well you can put me on the list of posters that are not entirely pleased with the direction of Amy's characterization.  Don't worry, I'm also not pleased with recent seasons of Sheldon's either.

I was a huge Amy fan, because she was deliciously odd.  She had her own unique perspective and was not afraid to express herself.  She never had the stereotypical nerdy scientist hobbies and that was fine.  I'm a female scientist myself, I know that we all don't fit into some preset mold.  I've never seen a character like that on TV before and it was so refreshing.

She could show empathy but it wasn't presented in the traditional sense .  For example, she let Ricky hang out at her apartment, smoke and watch cable cause she felt bad she was giving him cancer.  While that looks like an odd choice it made sense to her.  I loved that.   Amy's speech at Bernie and Howie 's wedding was so classically Amy.  Unapologetic about her views on things.  This is something she and Sheldon had in common.  He says what he's thinking most of the time.

Now what about character growth?  I'm not against characters changing and growing.  But they should retain some of their core characteristics.  I like that Amy desired love and friendship .  What I didn't want to is her turn into every other "stereotypical" girlfriend.  Which is what I see....except they kept her in the same Amy "clothes".   Sheldon they've regressed to a 5 yr old from someone that was sharp and witty.

But, I don't mind the show.  It's fun to watch if you don't hyper analyze everything.  That's how I've decided to watch now.  I didn't watch for over a month and got caught up.  I still really like it, it's a good sitcom. I laughed a lot.   I'm just not an invested shipper anymore.

[camelliayao]

6 hours ago, nibbler747 said:

Well you can put me on the list of posters that are not entirely pleased with the direction of Amy's characterization.  Don't worry, I'm also not pleased with recent seasons of Sheldon's either.

I was a huge Amy fan, because she was deliciously odd.  She had her own unique perspective and was not afraid to express herself.  She never had the stereotypical nerdy scientist hobbies and that was fine.  I'm a female scientist myself, I know that we all don't fit into some preset mold.  I've never seen a character like that on TV before and it was so refreshing.

She could show empathy but it wasn't presented in the traditional sense .  For example, she let Ricky hang out at her apartment, smoke and watch cable cause she felt bad she was giving him cancer.  While that looks like an odd choice it made sense to her.  I loved that.   Amy's speech at Bernie and Howie 's wedding was so classically Amy.  Unapologetic about her views on things.  This is something she and Sheldon had in common.  He says what he's thinking most of the time.

Now what about character growth?  I'm not against characters changing and growing.  But they should retain some of their core characteristics.  I like that Amy desired love and friendship .  What I didn't want to is her turn into every other "stereotypical" girlfriend.  Which is what I see....except they kept her in the same Amy "clothes".   Sheldon they've regressed to a 5 yr old from someone that was sharp and witty.

But, I don't mind the show.  It's fun to watch if you don't hyper analyze everything.  That's how I've decided to watch now.  I didn't watch for over a month and got caught up.  I still really like it, it's a good sitcom. I laughed a lot.   I'm just not an invested shipper anymore.

I see it differently. The "stereotypical" girlfriend would tell Sheldon to get rid of his stuff in the storage unit, but Amy asked about details of Sheldon's feelings and used herself as an example to comfort him (And it worked!).The "stereotypical" girlfriend would not play weird little games with Sheldon at the aquarium. The "stereotypical" girlfriend would never want to do a FWF episode with her boyfriend as a V-Day gift. The "stereotypical" girlfriend would buy a pair of shoes or a jacket for her boyfriend on his birthday while Amy invited SH to wish Sheldon a happy birthday. The "stereotypical" girlfriend wouldn't be able to tell Sheldon was drunk just by a punctuation mark. Most "stereotypical" girlfriends can't even pick good laptops for themselves according to movies and TV shows (because girls are always portrayed as ignorant of technology and digital products), let alone perfect laptops for their boyfriends. I can go on but then I have to go back and watch the episodes again...

Compared with Amy's changes, I find some of Sheldon's changes more distrubing. For example, I can't believe that Sheldon Cooper, would one day voluntarily go to Vegas. That episode made me like "seriously?". I didn't find it touching or beautiful at all. To me the old Sheldon I loved died a little in that episode. Of course he learned to respect others and I'm happy for him. But going to Vegas on a bus where his friends danced naked? Oh Dr. Cooper, when did you sink that low? And I rolled my eyes when Sheldon said he liked Taylor Swift (Don't get me wrong, I love Taylor. I just think it's ridiculous for Sheldon to like Taylor's songs given how he has always been portrayed) or when he put that little pink umbrella over his head, or when he and that monkey in Amy's lab moved synchronously . Sheldon used to be cute, in a good way. Now I think the writers went too far on that one.

But other than those little things here and there, I like Sheldon's changes. Just like I like Amy's changes. Generally speaking, they've both changed for better.

So I guess we all have different standards for these characters and we all have some soft spots. I love Amy because of her attitudes towards everything in life. She's always 100% devoted to her career, her friends, her boyfriend and even her monkeys. When she decided to make friends, she went all out. She tried so hard to be a good friend for Penny and Bernie. When she and Sheldon became a couple, she learned very quickly how to be considerate and selfless. And of course she's always very serious when it comes to her job.

I found these characteristics in Amy fasinating and inspiring. As for whether she likes traditional romance, her quirks, her hobbies, etc, I couldn't care less. I guess I have never considered Amy as weird or unique. To me she has always been just an ordinary girl. So I don't think she lost her uniquenesses. She just grows up.

Edited April 4, 2016 by camelliayao

[2L344]

4 hours ago, camelliayao said:

I see it differently. The "stereotypical" girlfriend would tell Sheldon to get rid of his stuff in the storage unit, but Amy asked about details of Sheldon's feelings and used herself as an example to comfort him (And it worked!).The "stereotypical" girlfriend would not play weird little games with Sheldon at the aquarium. The "stereotypical" girlfriend would never want to do a FWF episode with her boyfriend as a V-Day gift. The "stereotypical" girlfriend would buy a pair of shoes or a jacket for her boyfriend on his birthday while Amy invited SH to wish Sheldon a happy birthday. The "stereotypical" girlfriend wouldn't be able to tell Sheldon was drunk just by a punctuation mark. Most "stereotypical" girlfriends can'I even pick up good laptops for themselves according to movies and TV shows, let alone perfect laptops for their boyfriends. I can go on but then I have to go back and watch the episodes again...

Compared with Amy's changes, I find some of Sheldon's changes more distrubing. For example, I can't believe that Sheldon Cooper, would one day voluntarily go to Vegas. That episode made me like "seriously?". I didn't find it touching or beautiful at all. To me the old Sheldon I loved died a little in that episode. Of course he learned to respect others and I'm happy for him. But going to Vegas on a bus where his friends danced naked? Oh Dr. Cooper, when did you sink that low? And I rolled my eyes when Sheldon said he liked Taylor Swift (Don't get me wrong, I love Taylor. I just think it's ridiculous for Sheldon to like Taylor's songs given how Sheldon has always been portrayed) or when he put that little pink umbrella over his head, or when he and that monkey in Amy's lab moved synchronously . Sheldon used to be cute, in a good way. Now I think the writers went to far on that one.

But other than those little things here and there, I like Sheldon's changes. Just like I like Amy's changes. Generally speaking, they've both changed for better.

So I guess we all have different standards for these characters and we all have some soft spots. I love Amy because of her attitudes towards everything in life. She's always 100% devoted to her career, her friends, her boyfriend and even her monkeys. When she decided to make friends, she went all out. She tried so hard to be a good friend for Penny and Bernie. When she and Sheldon became a couple, she learned very quickly how to be considerate and selfless. And of course she's always very serious when it comes to her job.

I found these characteristics in Amy fasinating and inspiring. As for whether she likes traditional romance, her quirks, her hobbies, etc, I couldn't care less. I guess I have never considered Amy as weird or unique. To me she has always been just an ordinary girl. So I don't think she lost her uniquenesses. She just grows up.

I agree with a lot of what you say about Amy. The Amy we met on the blind date in the end of S3 was a friendless, solitary kind of soul with a lot of baggage (like a lot of the characters on TBBT)...she isn't that person anymore, and that's a good thing. She embraced her new found friends and life, and the doors it opened for her. Like you said, she grew up. Honestly there are times I miss some of those early Amy eccentricities but I wouldn't trade S9 Amy for S4 Amy. They are both fun to watch but are unique in their own way.

As for Sheldon leaving for Vegas, I get what you're saying but I was good with it. I equated it to Sheldon joining Leonard and Wolowitz at Wheatons party when Wil was still an arch enemy. Sheldon just didn't want to be left out, and this desire to be part of what was happening was greater than his desire to avoid the destination. Just my opinion, and what made it an easier situation to believe.

Edited April 4, 2016 by 2L344

[A.D.A.]

On 13.3.2016 at 8:58 PM, Carlos said:

 

(The stray quote box appears again. Sorry, Carlos!)

I think one of the reasons that I get so frustrated with new Amy is that the person she used to be represents a sort of woman that is not usually spotlighted on TV much, not even on this show. Also, we're being presented with her change as a development we, as an audience, are supposed to see as positive. In some ways that makes sense. Very early Season 4 Amy was really barely functional in social situations, so they had to soften her traits a bit so she would fit more easily into the group, and making friends was obviously good for her. However, alongside her general social "development", she also lost some of her other traits. So, Amy who liked Chaucer and the harp and experiments, that's pre-development. Amy who likes romance and educating her boyfriend on Being Normal and giving out motherly advice, that's her post-development. (She might still have these old traits, but since they aren't being showcased anymore, they are for all intents and purposes gone for now, like her social awkwardness is.) Post-development is meant to be the "better" version. So the message I'm seeing here is pretty clear and its being reinforced with Sheldon as well. Normal is good. Being normal is the way to happiness.

And that doesn't mean that having "typically female" interests is a bad thing for a real-life woman, scientist or not. I mean, I'm pretty sure no one is arguing that, that would be stupid. It's just that NOT having them is so seldomly represented in mainstream media that it was refreshing. I, admittedly, was kind of happy that this one time, there was someone on TV who was female and also ridiculous, funny, and interesting in a strange way that wasn't always flattering or just clutzy-cute, which is the only version of "weird" women are often allowed. So Amy's change took away something that made the show unique for me and that's why I don't like it. (Obviously this is kind of personal - as all interpretation is.)

As you can probably see, this whole "growth" narrative isn't my favourite in general. Yes, people change over time. They don't always change for the better. I would argue that they haven't on this show, either, depending on what your standards are. I don't know, I see this a lot and I never get this argument. Am I, as person smack in the middle of my twenties, too young to understand the appeal of this (I can't imagine it's really that)? If this is growing up, personally, I think I'll pass for the moment. I'd rather be weird for a little while longer. And that's not even getting into the fact that this is a comedy. Why would I want to see a bunch of normal people bumbling about doing normal people things? Because I'm getting the writing for the Very Normal Sitcom Wife/Husband-Team with Bernadette and Howard already, and so far, I'm not impressed.

Edited April 5, 2016 by A.D.A.

[April]

This is probably arguing semantics but whatever:

The way some of you write about the characters' development it sounds like you believe that a character loses a specific interest/hobby/etc. the moment it isn't part of a plot for some time. But honestly, I don't believe that to be the case. For example: Yes, we haven't seen Amy play the harp in ages, and the reason for that seems to be Mayim's hand injury or so the story goes (Idk if that would still be the case???), but it's mentioned ever so often in dialogue - the latest instance being in 9x11 when Sheldon mentions her playing the harp with an orchestra as one of his birthday gift options which tells me that yes, Amy still plays the harp, and no, the writers haven't forgotten about it. And I believe it's the same with many other quirky interests and hobbies.

When I think of Amy's and Sheldon's character growth I think of their social skills getting better, of their ability to express themselves and connect with other people and open up to others in a way that they couldn't before. They both place more importance on their relationships with other people now, so I guess you could say that the one thing they definitely lost is some of their haughtiness and indifference towards others. But tbqh that's not something I'm particularly sad over.

All that said though, I don't disagree that there's been a shift in story focus with this season. With Sheldon and Amy it's all about their relationship and character development these days and I totally understand that this isn't everyone's cup of tea. As I said in an earlier post I do think there's some value in this narrative decision because they seem to concentrate on rectifying a few writing missteps from the past to get Shamy to the point where they need to be for whatever future developments they have planned (engagement, moving in together, marriage???). But of course I personally also would welcome it if we'd go back to science and quirky hobby plots for those two. Just yesterday I was chatting elsewhere about how great it would be if they'd end up with some joined science project that allows them to bask in each other's brilliance again cause I miss that just as much as the next person here.

Edited April 5, 2016 by April

[2L344]

10 hours ago, April said:

This is probably arguing semantics but whatever:

For example: Yes, we haven't seen Amy play the harp in ages, and the reason for that seems to be Mayim's hand injury or so the story goes (Idk if that would still be the case???), but it's mentioned ever so often in dialogue - the latest instance being in 9x11 when Sheldon mentions her playing the harp with an orchestra as one of his birthday gift options which tells me that yes, Amy still plays the harp, and no, the writers haven't forgotten about it. And I believe it's the same with many other quirky interests and hobbies.

When I think of Amy's and Sheldon's character growth I think of their social skills getting better, of their ability to express themselves and connect with other people and open up to others in a way that they couldn't before. They both place more importance on their relationships with other people now, so I guess you could say that the one thing they definitely lost is some of their haughtiness and indifference towards others. But tbqh that's not something I'm particularly sad over.

All that said though, I don't disagree that there's been a shift in story focus with this season. With Sheldon and Amy it's all about their relationship and character development these days and I totally understand that this isn't everyone's cup of tea. As I said in an earlier post I do think there's some value in this narrative decision because they seem to concentrate on rectifying a few writing missteps from the past to get Shamy to the point where they need to be for whatever future developments they have planned (engagement, moving in together, marriage???). But of course I personally also would welcome it if we'd go back to science and quirky hobby plots for those two. Just yesterday I was chatting elsewhere about how great it would be if they'd end up with some joined science project that allows them to bask in each other's brilliance again cause I miss that just as much as the next person here.

You said it perfectly. Using Amy as an example since a lot of discussion lately was about her--I think it's fair to say she has changed, and to some people significantly. Season 4/5 was all about her new friends and particularly her adopted BF Penny and Amy's compulsive drive to throw herself together with her. For me it was fun to watch Amy obsess over her (I know some folks thought it was a little weird or borderline sexual, I just laughed at it). We also saw what started as a quirky friendship with Sheldon blossom into something more. Those early seasons are great to watch in reruns or on bluray for a lot of the character development and goofy hi-jinx that Shamy (and ladies nights) gave us. When people lament the lack of that "spark" I do get it.

But this show has lasted 9 seasons, into 10 for a reason--the characters were allowed to develop and grow. I don't think it would be half as popular if the characters stayed the same, like a "Married With Children" show. I think a lot of people who are fans of the show fell in love with the characters and their quirks and enjoyed seeing them change as their relationships with friends and romantic partners influenced them. To me they developed pretty naturally--I think Howard summed it up nicely when he and Bernie had their fight after the bachelor party. She made him a better man. The same is true for Lenny and Shamy, each of the characters compliment one another.

Would I like to see Amy act sillier sometimes, and not be as serious as she has been shown this season? Yes! But as you point out S9 has been a roller coaster of emotions and romantic plots for her and Sheldon, and to me it's understandable to feel like she lost something this season with all the emphasis on a nine episode breakup and then a reconciliation that explores a better understanding of a relationship. We saw some hints at that Amy peek out here and there this season ( her dry comments with Bernie after the pregnancy reveal, smart ass responses to Raj when Emily called him in 4B, her karaoke performance, and as we all will see her giddiness and silliness in the upcoming cabin episode).

I would like to see the writers show us more of that personality now and then, but I don't think Amy has been made unrecognizable and boring. She grew up. I think some people miss childish Amy, and while I understand why, I personally welcome grown up Amy!

 

[tallin]

I was holding myself saying it but as current debate seems to offer some well-reasoned, great points I hope I'm not starting a scuffle. To be honest sometimes it seems like what people are seeing are just two versions of Amy. The season 4 and current Amy. But what I miss is actually, the person somewhere in between. Season 4 Amy, or let's say the version that was with us for how long three, four episodes (?) is not really who I mourn. At least the cold, robotic, arrogant version. (Well, maybe a little at times, I'm always up for a a bit of sass). The person I really miss Is the person who you could find all over the S4-S8 (and a humble portion of S9). The person who used to verbalize her thoughts and feelings in matter-of-fact -intelligent, witty manner. Whose bright, insightful exchanges (perfectly delivered by Mayim) were a sweet melody for a "good-lecture-geek" I'm shamelessly myself. And I used to love Amy the - brilliant scientist whose passionate about her work to the point when she was flirting with a starfish, or slipping highly disrespectful tasks to her beloved.  With that kind of wicked curiosity only scientist can fully understand. And I loved the never ending saga - "Fifty Shades of Weird and Weirder"  of Amy's kinky hobbies -  perfect afternoon  in a craft museum? oh sure! doing the real life "operation? Who could say no?  "And yes, I used to love these wildly inappropriate comments that made even our king-of-crossing-every-boundary - Sheldon look up in horror. I miss  the wicked sense of humor, the "maybe you'll be hit by a car and  die, LOL right? " moments. And I loved her neurotic, insulting, selfish and I loved her caring, loving and overly excited for a smallest thing. And no, I don't think that was a sign of her immaturity, but rather her excited attitude towards life in general. It was so very charming. Sometimes, lately, while seeing Amy gloomy and rolling her eyes for most of the times I feel like  the pure enthusiasm and happiness, is what I miss the most. 

And the most interesting  thing for me was, that  in a sense, she was the most normal for me in comparison to real life, from all of the characters I saw on TV. Because just as in real life she had a wide spectrum of who she was. Tons of characteristics that could go together smoothly and contradict itself just as well. And they were good and bad, and she was kinda "crazy," and kinda "normal," she was just as colorful entity, as most of people in real life are. Just a human being - perfect, in it's imperfection. People are not one-dimensional. People don't come with three characteristics that drive their whole behavior - that's the TV world "dumping it down" for "us." What she became now for me is not a normal person of any definition of normal in real life  I can think of, but a normal female in a TV "Trope and Cliché" workbook. IMO Amy's" job" now is to progress Sheldon, and her character was "robbed off" a lot characteristics to make space for that "task." But it's not Sheldon's girlfriend I miss, it's simply Amy. We call it a progress, an advancement, but is it?

Does progress has to involve taking away almost all the identity of one, the small remains "of hey that's Amy, let me introduce you to Sheldon" being sex-starving joke and insult here and there? 

Okey. End of the (incredibly long) rant. 

I guess, as a good full Jewish dinner, it had to go out sometime.(soon) 

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by tallin

[Jonny]

14 minutes ago, tallin said:

I was holding myself saying it but as current debate seems to offer some well-reasoned, great points I hope I'm not starting a scuffle. To be honest sometimes it seems like what people are seeing are just two versions of Amy. The season 4 and current Amy. But what I miss is actually, the person somewhere in between. Season 4 Amy, or let's say the version that was with us for how long three, four episodes (?) is not really who I mourn. At least the cold, robotic, arrogant version. (Well, maybe a little at times, I'm always up for a a bit of sass). The person I really miss Is the person who you could find all over the S4-S8 (and a humble portion of S9). The person who used to verbalize her thoughts and feelings in matter-of-fact -intelligent, witty manner. Whose bright, insightful exchanges (perfectly delivered by Mayim) were a sweet melody for a "good-lecture-geek" I'm shamelessly myself. And I used to love Amy the - brilliant scientist whose passionate about her work to the point when she was flirting with a starfish, or slipping highly disrespectful tasks to her beloved.  With that kind of wicked curiosity only scientist can fully understand. And I loved the never ending saga - "Fifty Shades of Weird and Weirder"  of Amy's kinky hobbies -  perfect afternoon  in a craft museum? oh sure! doing the real life "operation? Who could say no?  "And yes, I used to love these wildly inappropriate comments that made even our king-of-crossing-every-boundary - Sheldon look up in horror. I miss  the wicked sense of humor, the "maybe you'll be hit by a car and  die, LOL right? " moments. And I loved her neurotic, insulting, selfish and I loved her caring, loving and overly excited for a smallest thing. And no, I don't think that was a sign of her immaturity, but rather her excited attitude towards life in general. It was so very charming. Sometimes, lately, while seeing Amy gloomy and rolling her eyes for most of the times I feel like  the pure enthusiasm and happiness, is what I miss the most. 

And the most interesting  thing for me was, that  in a sense, she was the most normal for me in comparison to real life, from all of the characters I saw on TV. Because just as in real life she had a wide spectrum of who she was. Tons of characteristics that could go together smoothly and contradict itself just as well. And they were good and bad, and she was kinda "crazy," and kinda "normal," she was just as colorful entity, as most of people in real life are. Just a human being - perfect, in it's imperfection. People are not one-dimensional. People don't come with three characteristics that drive their whole behavior - that's the TV world "dumping it down" for "us." What she became now for me is not a normal person of any definition of normal in real life  I can think of, but a normal female in a TV "Trope and Cliché" workbook. IMO Amy's" job" now is to progress Sheldon, and her character was "robbed off" a lot characteristics to make space for that "task." But it's not Sheldon's girlfriend I miss, it's simply Amy. We call it a progress, an advancement, but is it?

Does progress has to involve taking away almost all the identity of one, the small remains "of hey that's Amy, let me introduce you to Sheldon" being sex-starving joke and insult here and there? 

Okey. End of the (incredibly long) rant. 

I guess, as a good full Jewish dinner, it had to go out sometime.(soon) 

 

I think you make some good points, but there is still time to bring back some of the old Amy stuff for example the scientist part that I myself included would like to see.

This season has been largely dominated by the breakup and then the reconciliation, now we are on a kind of strengthening phase now in preparation for an engagement. If the engagement happens and that's out of the way the writers could focus more on some of the individual storylines again.

For me she hasn't changed in a detrimental way but i agree it's time to re-focus on some of the other qualities Amy has to offer that has been lost in a turbulent storyline. I'm confident that will happen.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Jonny83

[camelliayao]

Interesting. But if Sheldon says NO and Amy wants to, Amy should just wait for him to be ready, right? And I think Sheldon had passed the point of going back to season 1 a long time ago lol. I mean did you watch The Spock Resonance?

[camelliayao]

Just now, Serena_nyc1995 said:

If either of them says NO , they should break up forever. Makes no sense, if 2 people want different things.

Also interesting.

Well Amy wanted to move in together in season 6 and Sheldon said no. To me they wanted different things back then too but I didn't see anyone saying they should "break up forever". People in relationships want different things all the time but they don't "break up forever" most of the time. Because things change and people change. One person who wants to be single forever may decide to get married one day. When Sheldon was not ready, Amy chose to wait because she loves him. So I think when Amy's not ready in the future, most likely Sheldon will do the same because, well, as much as you love season 1 Sheldon, we are now looking at season 9 Sheldon and season 9 Sheldon loooooooooovvvvvves Amy.

[camelliayao]

29 minutes ago, Serena_nyc1995 said:

I get it. We have been reminded every episode that Sheldon loves Amy. 

If Amy does say NO and that she wouldn't ever want to marry Sheldon, then I don't see how they would want to continue. And I don't think Sheldon will want to go through all that again with Amy or some other girl. So it makes  sense that he would emotionally shut off himself and go back to being season 1 Mr. Spock. It actually sounds in character. But I'm just speculating for fun.

"We have been reminded every episode that Sheldon loves Amy." Then I don't see how they can break up forever. Maybe according to you they "should", but I don't think they can. After they broke up in season 9, they tried to move on; Sheldon tried to shut himself from emotions...None of those things worked, did it. I'm positive they'll always wind up together no matter what:)

"If Amy does say NO and that she wouldn't ever want to marry Sheldon"? Well even if she really says that I think she'll change her mind eventually and Sheldon'll be willing to wait for her. Also it'll be extremelly OOC because to me Amy has always been portrayed as a girl who wants marriage and romance.

"But I'm just speculating for fun." This is the Shamy (supportive) thread and I really can't see why it's fun to speculate them to "break up forever". But I admire and respect your imagination:)

Edited April 18, 2016 by camelliayao

[tallin]

4 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Also interesting.

Well Amy wanted to move in together in season 6 and Sheldon said no. To me they wanted different things back then too but I didn't see anyone saying they should "break up forever". People in relationships want different things all the time but they don't "break up forever" most of the time. Because things change and people change. One person who wants to be single forever may decide to get married one day. When Sheldon was not ready, Amy chose to wait because she loves him. So I think when Amy's not ready in the future, most likely Sheldon will do the same because, well, as much as you love season 1 Sheldon, we are now looking at season 9 Sheldon and season 9 Sheldon loooooooooovvvvvves Amy.

To be honest this whole foundation of "let's hope and wait for change" when it comes to relationships seems like quite a good recipe for catastrophe to me. Sadly, when people wants different things it usually ends in "break up forever," divorce statistics are quite telling that way. Even Amy found the hard way, she waited for a long time and sadly, Sheldon didn't met her expectations, and even while she got back together with him, she's wanting and waiting and try to get it out of Sheldon just to be disappointed. And in the end, one couldn't be too surprised if one day, she yet again get tired of "working on" making him into a boyfriend, she wishes him to be. Sure love is beautiful thing, but it's not a solution for everything. In the end I think that the most wonderful love you can be given is to be loved for just who you are. Plain and simple. If Sheldon and Amy are to stay together I'd wished them to get there, and if not, then, let go and try to find a person who could love and appreciate them for the exceptional people they are. 

[camelliayao]

1 hour ago, tallin said:

To be honest this whole foundation of "let's hope and wait for change" when it comes to relationships seems like quite a good recipe for catastrophe to me. Sadly, when people wants different things it usually ends in "break up forever," divorce statistics are quite telling that way. Even Amy found the hard way, she waited for a long time and sadly, Sheldon didn't met her expectations, and even while she got back together with him, she's wanting and waiting and try to get it out of Sheldon just to be disappointed. And in the end, one couldn't be too surprised if one day, she yet again get tired of "working on" making him into a boyfriend, she wishes him to be. Sure love is beautiful thing, but it's not a solution for everything. In the end I think that the most wonderful love you can be given is to be loved for just who you are. Plain and simple. If Sheldon and Amy are to stay together I'd wished them to get there, and if not, then, let go and try to find a person who could love and appreciate them for the exceptional people they are. 

I don't think there's any other person who can understand and appreciate Sheldon more than Amy, at least not in the universe of TBBT. Same goes for Amy. Of course they're not there yet. Because the show still has at least one whole season. The writers need to take things slow.

I don't know and frankly I don't care what will happen to Shamy in real life. Because I don't believe there're people who are exactly like Sheldon and Amy in real life. Sheldon's character has too strong a personality to be real. And if I want to watch how love is not everything and how people grow apart eventually, I should just go watch my own life lol. 

This is a TV show so yes love is a solution for everything and two people in love will have a happy ending and Shamy will be end game. That's what's so awesome about TV shows: they're not real life:) 

So in the universe of TBBT, I believe Shamy will resolve their problems. And if one of them is a little slow in the relationship, the other one will wait. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by camelliayao

[tallin]

11 hours ago, camelliayao said:

I don't think there's any other person who can understand and appreciate Sheldon more than Amy, at least not in the universe of TBBT. Same goes for Amy. Of course they're not there yet. Because the show still has at least one whole season. The writers need to take things slow.

I don't know and frankly I don't care what will happen to Shamy in real life. Because I don't believe there're people who are exactly like Sheldon and Amy in real life. Sheldon's character has too strong a personality to be real. And if I want to watch how love is not everything and how people grow apart eventually, I should just go watch my own life lol. 

This is a TV show so yes love is a solution for everything and two people in love will have a happy ending and Shamy will be end game. That's what's so awesome about TV shows: they're not real life:) 

So in the universe of TBBT, I believe Shamy will resolve their problems. And if one of them is a little slow in the relationship, the other one will wait. 

1. I think I can see where it could seem like I was talking about a real life, but except maybe the divorce comment I really wasn't, I was talking strictly about Shamy in the BBT world. Trust me, I'm watching TV to get a break from my RL like anybody else :). But I do disagree that in TV world, love is solution for everything no matter who the people are and only has happy endings. In some formats sure, but nowadays I'd say portray of relationships can go beyond usual TV tropes and is quite open to show all sorts of relationships, with all sorts of unexpected outcomes. After all early Shamy are the glaring example of such.

2. I don't really mind they are "getting there" or the pace of it, the point for me is to what the "be there" or the "happy ending" really means in this case. Is it the point there one person "morphs" into the desirable partner of the other, to the point where there we will just "polish away" the unfitting differences, - - nothing standing in the way of them "running towards sunset" ? No matter from which angle I look at it, I just can't find the happy ending in it. But maybe it's just me. I do respect those who do and Am glad they enjoy the show. I guess what I'd selfishly would consider to be some sort of happy conclusion would be, if they slowly admitted their differences and found a way to compromise - the golden mean that could make their relationship equal without changing the very basis of who they are. Sure it doesn't ring as classically romantic I guess, but pretty much do nice job for me. Maybe we could have at least something in between?  Well, girl can dream. 

And just aside the topic, but because you brought that up,  I had the luck to meet a few of Sheldon's alike and even two couples I found strangely similar to Sheldon and Amy. Of course they are no copies, but you can find those people in certain places, just not so much among general public because you know, casual human contact is off putting and nobody wants that  Anyway, sometimes I wish writers would find a people like that, believe me, the stories could fill Shamy plots with such a laugh your stomach would hurt three weeks later  

[camelliayao]

8 hours ago, tallin said:

1. I think I can see where it could seem like I was talking about a real life, but except maybe the divorce comment I really wasn't, I was talking strictly about Shamy in the BBT world. Trust me, I'm watching TV to get a break from my RL like anybody else :). But I do disagree that in TV world, love is solution for everything no matter who the people are and only has happy endings. In some formats sure, but nowadays I'd say portray of relationships can go beyond usual TV tropes and is quite open to show all sorts of relationships, with all sorts of unexpected outcomes. After all early Shamy are the glaring example of such.

2. I don't really mind they are "getting there" or the pace of it, the point for me is to what the "be there" or the "happy ending" really means in this case. Is it the point there one person "morphs" into the desirable partner of the other, to the point where there we will just "polish away" the unfitting differences, - - nothing standing in the way of them "running towards sunset" ? No matter from which angle I look at it, I just can't find the happy ending in it. But maybe it's just me. I do respect those who do and Am glad they enjoy the show. I guess what I'd selfishly would consider to be some sort of happy conclusion would be, if they slowly admitted their differences and found a way to compromise - the golden mean that could make their relationship equal without changing the very basis of who they are. Sure it doesn't ring as classically romantic I guess, but pretty much do nice job for me. Maybe we could have at least something in between?  Well, girl can dream. 

And just aside the topic, but because you brought that up,  I had the luck to meet a few of Sheldon's alike and even two couples I found strangely similar to Sheldon and Amy. Of course they are no copies, but you can find those people in certain places, just not so much among general public because you know, casual human contact is off putting and nobody wants that  Anyway, sometimes I wish writers would find a people like that, believe me, the stories could fill Shamy plots with such a laugh your stomach would hurt three weeks later  

Sorry you wrote so many words and English is not my first language so I didn't read all of them. But I'm just gonna state my opinion here because it's getting confusing why we are having this conversation...

I like Shamy and I believe they're happy together most of the time. I see problems between them but nothing that can't be solved. To me they'll be fine. I can't understand your POV and I'm not planning to. I'm not trying to persuade anyone. My original post was moved here from the Shamy thread so maybe the tone was a little confusing. Sorry about that.

It's as simple as this: I'm a Shamy shipper and I have zero interests in knowing what others think of Shamy.

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, camelliayao said:

My original post was moved here from the Shamy thread so maybe the tone was a little confusing. Sorry about that.

camelliayao, your original post was moved, because it answered a post from serena_nyc1995 that was not supportive to Shamy, in the Shamy thread.     There were several posts discussing the non-supportive post, yours among them.  Those type posts are moved to either the discussion thread, or to this thread.   After her posts were moved, serena deleted several of her posts, you can see parts of her posts that you quoted,  that may be why you don't understand why your posts were moved.

[camelliayao]

16 minutes ago, Tensor said:

camelliayao, your original post was moved, because it answered a post from serena_nyc1995 that was not supportive to Shamy, in the Shamy thread.     There were several posts discussing the non-supportive post, yours among them.  Those type posts are moved to either the discussion thread, or to this thread.   After her posts were moved, serena deleted several of her posts, you can see parts of her posts that you quoted,  that may be why you don't understand why your posts were moved.

Oh I understand that. Thanks for the explaining though. I was just explaining maybe my post seems "Shamy supportive" because it was originally posted on the Shamy thread. 

[Tensor]

3 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Oh I understand that. Thanks for the explaining though. I was just explaining maybe my post seems "Shamy supportive" because it was originally posted on the Shamy thread. 

Ahhhhhhhhh, the lightbulb lights.  Thanks. 

[ajond]

On Reddit the question was asked 'who is the most annoying character on TV'; Sheldon gets a heap of nominations.

[tallin]

3 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Sorry you wrote so many words and English is not my first language so I didn't read all of them. But I'm just gonna state my opinion here because it's getting confusing why we are having this conversation...

I like Shamy and I believe they're happy together most of the time. I see problems between them but nothing that can't be solved. To me they'll be fine. I can't understand your POV and I'm not planning to. I'm not trying to persuade anyone. My original post was moved here from the Shamy thread so maybe the tone was a little confusing. Sorry about that.

It's as simple as this: I'm a Shamy shipper and I have zero interests in knowing what others think of Shamy.

Sure message received

about the bold bit I guess that's where we misunderstood. I assumed you do, since exchange of feelings about the show/characters, good or bad, is why most of us signs for forums like this. I'll remember to not discuss them with you in future. 

[camelliayao]

1 hour ago, tallin said:

Sure message received

about the bold bit I guess that's where we misunderstood. I assumed you do, since exchange of feelings about the show/characters, good or bad, is why most of us signs for forums like this. I'll remember to not discuss them with you in future. 

I signed up this forum for spoilers and to read posts from people that I like so...

[A.D.A.]

3 hours ago, ajond said:

On Reddit the question was asked 'who is the most annoying character on TV'; Sheldon gets a heap of nominations.

To be fair, the vocal majority on reddit hates TBBT with a burning passion, so any TBBT character is bound to catch a lot of flak. Lots of people there call it "nerd blackface" and most don't seem to have watched it in years, or ever (as evidenced by the fact that "constant Bazinga jokes" is still a criticism when Sheldon hasn't been using that catchphrase in... I can't even remember when).

[ajond]

1 hour ago, A.D.A. said:

To be fair, the vocal majority on reddit hates TBBT with a burning passion, so any TBBT character is bound to catch a lot of flak. Lots of people there call it "nerd blackface" and most don't seem to have watched it in years, or ever (as evidenced by the fact that "constant Bazinga jokes" is still a criticism when Sheldon hasn't been using that catchphrase in... I can't even remember when).

Actually it was all Sheldon with one throwing in Leonard as well.

[A.D.A.]

5 hours ago, ajond said:

Actually it was all Sheldon with one throwing in Leonard as well.

The most recent discussion on reddit on annoying characters I've read actually had a fair few complaints about Bernadette and Leonard as well. Not sure if linking to non-official outside sources is allowed, though.

(I'm discounting everyone who began their posts with intelligent statements like "TBBT is a series about smart people written for the amusement of dumb people" because... ugh. I mean, I have my problems with the show, but dat superiority complex, it is astonishing. Also, most of them obviously hadn't watched the show.)

[Carlos]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 11:55 PM, camelliayao said:

1) I can't understand your POV and I'm not planning to.

2) It's as simple as this: I'm a Shamy shipper and I have zero interests in knowing what others think of Shamy.

1) Well, obviously. How can you understand it if you don't read all of it? Quite difficult, I'd think.

2) In which case, why even post at all? Isn't a forum a public place where people interact? Besides you do have opinions on other people's posts so they are going to have opinions on yours. You say you come for spoilers yet you post not only in the spoiler thread. Oh well...

Edited April 21, 2016 by Carlos