Debate Zone [Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9

[camelliayao]

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

1) Well, obviously. How can you understand it if you don't read all of it? Quite difficult, I'd think.

2) In which case, why even post at all? Isn't a forum a public place where people interact? Besides you do have opinions on other people's posts so they are going to have opinions on yours. You say you come for spoilers yet you post not only in the spoiler thread. Oh well...

I didn't start the conversation with tallin. He (or she?) quoted me first. My original post was moved here from Shamy thread. I was having a conversation with another member from Shamy thread who I believe is a Shamy shipper. I don't want to continue the conversation with tallin because from what I can tell he's not a Shamy shipper. And since we see things from completely different angles, it'll be a waste of time to continue arguing IMO. 

I think I have the right to choose the posts that I read, answer or not answer. I didn't tell tallin to stop quoting me, did I? He can quote me as much as he wants, just like you can quote me as much as you want. I was simply telling him as a reminder and a clarification while he's free to continue with the conversation, I have no interests in knowing his thoughts thus I'll not continue to read them or answer them. That's all. 

If you think my posts violated the rules of the forum, feel free to report me.

[Carlos]

2 hours ago, camelliayao said:

I didn't start the conversation with tallin. He (or she?) quoted me first. My original post was moved here from Shamy thread. I was having a conversation with another member from Shamy thread who I believe is a Shamy shipper. I don't want to continue the conversation with tallin because from what I can tell he's not a Shamy shipper. And since we see things from completely different angles, it'll be a waste of time to continue arguing IMO. 

I think I have the right to choose the posts that I read, answer or not answer. I didn't tell tallin to stop quoting me, did I? He can quote me as much as he wants, just like you can quote me as much as you want. I was simply telling him as a reminder and a clarification while he's free to continue with the conversation, I have no interests in knowing his thoughts thus I'll not continue to read them or answer them. That's all. 

If you think my posts violated the rules of the forum, feel free to report me.

Btw, Tallin is a she.

I don't think your posts violated any rules of the forum, so there's nothing to report. IMO they were condescending, but that's just me. In Sheldon's voice: "Peace out (he says "homie", but I'll say) camelliayao"

[Judith]

Popping in a bit late to add to the wedding convo...Obviously, if Sheldon proposed and Amy wanted to get married in general but not to him specifically, well...that would be a problem. They might as well break up. BUT, I'm sure that's not the case here.

If Amy has reached a place within herself/in her relationship with Sheldon where she feels that a wedding is not something that she feels is necessary but still wants to be with him, that is totally fine. If she WANTS to get married, but not RIGHT NOW because she feels that she/he/they aren't there yet, that is also totally fine. It would speak of how strong their relationship is if she would be able to say "Even though I want to marry you I don't think it's the right time yet". For whatever reason, as long as they sat down and talked about it and decided that they still wanted to be together.

As for Amy molding Sheldon into the perfect boyfriend, IMO that's not what's going on here. Sheldon does have many quirks but many of these quirks are a result of his issues and as for said issues, well, wouldn't it be healthy for him to get over them? The show doesn't shy away anymore from treating his quirks as what they trully are - symptoms. Mind you, I DO like his quirks and I don't think he'll ever lose them completely (what would be the point of the character then?) but Sheldon has changed a lot through the seasons and this change has inevitably permeated every part of him. Also note that this change isn't only a result of his entire social circle (not only Amy) but also welcome by him (albeit begrudgingly).

More to the point, I don't think it's a problem for Amy to try to guide him through getting over these issues (especially considering her professional background which has helped her in the past identify these issues for what they are and given her the knowledge to help him get over them). I also don't think that she doesn't get him because of that or that she doesn't like him/connect to him. Of course she does, as has been repeatedly shown in this season (and previous ones). But I think it's normal to like some parts of your SO and at the same time get frustrated by other parts or want to help them if these parts give them a hard time. Let's not forget that Sheldon can be VERY tedious at times.

Both of them have changed for the better without anyone being forced into said change. IMO it all comes from interacting with other people and having relationships with them.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Judith

[Jonny]

3 hours ago, Judith said:

Popping in a bit late to add to the wedding convo...Obviously, if Sheldon proposed and Amy wanted to get married in general but not to him specifically, well...that would be a problem. They might as well break up. BUT, I'm sure that's not the case here.

If Amy has reached a place within herself/in her relationship with Sheldon where she feels that a wedding is not something that she feels is necessary but still wants to be with him, that is totally fine. If she WANTS to get married, but not RIGHT NOW because she feels that she/he/they aren't there yet, that is also totally fine. It would speak of how strong their relationship is if she would be able to say "Even though I want to marry you I don't think it's the right time yet". For whatever reason, as long as they sat down and talked about it and decided that they still wanted to be together.

As for Amy molding Sheldon into the perfect boyfriend, IMO that's not what's going on here. Sheldon does have many quirks but many of these quirks are a result of his issues and as for said issues, well, wouldn't it be healthy for him to get over them? The show doesn't shy away anymore from treating his quirks as what they trully are - symptoms. Mind you, I DO like his quirks and I don't think he'll ever lose them completely (what would be the point of the character then?) but Sheldon has changed a lot through the seasons and this change has inevitably permeated every part of him. Also note that this change isn't only a result of his entire social circle (not only Amy) but also welcome by him (albeit begrudgingly).

More to the point, I don't think it's a problem for Amy to try to guide him through getting over these issues (especially considering her professional background which has helped her in the past identify these issues for what they are and given her the knowledge to help him get over them). I also don't think that she doesn't get him because of that or that she doesn't like him/connect to him. Of course she does, as has been repeatedly shown in this season (and previous ones). But I think it's normal to like some parts of your SO and at the same time get frustrated by other parts or want to help them if these parts give them a hard time. Let's not forget that Sheldon can be VERY tedious at times.

Both of them have changed for the better without anyone being forced into said change. IMO it all comes from interacting with other people and having relationships with them.

If he proposes I can't see Amy not accepting, and I am not sure Sheldon would take it well at all if she said she wants to marry him eventually but doesn't want to get engaged yet. I think with Sheldon's lack of social skills at times he could easily misread the situation.

If both aren't ready yet to get married there is nothing stopping them getting engaged and getting married some time later. We all know Sheldon pushed for Lenny to set a date but they were engaged for a while. If there is to be a season 11 they could have an engagement that covers season 10 and they look at season 11 to be the time when they do get hitched.

[tallin]

On 4/21/2016 at 5:34 AM, camelliayao said:

I didn't start the conversation with tallin. He (or she?) quoted me first. My original post was moved here from Shamy thread. I was having a conversation with another member from Shamy thread who I believe is a Shamy shipper. I don't want to continue the conversation with tallin because from what I can tell he's not a Shamy shipper. And since we see things from completely different angles, it'll be a waste of time to continue arguing IMO. 

I think I have the right to choose the posts that I read, answer or not answer. I didn't tell tallin to stop quoting me, did I? He can quote me as much as he wants, just like you can quote me as much as you want. I was simply telling him as a reminder and a clarification while he's free to continue with the conversation, I have no interests in knowing his thoughts thus I'll not continue to read them or answer them. That's all. 

If you think my posts violated the rules of the forum, feel free to report me.

Okey one last time. (Sorry Tensor, I'll promise to keep it at topic from now on and if there would be exchange - then by PM's). I wasn't about to respond since I do think it sincerely that I respect your decision to not , but well, when you're being talk about over and over in third person , it's hard to not speak for yourself. At least once to clarify.

First as you said, you're right to choose the post you read, answer, or not - as anybody here. I take that as a "vow" here. From that, I think my misunderstanding that while you did answered  my post, you didn't ignored it as is your right but actually wrote back, I could thought you were interested in conversation. Naive of me maybe? But understandable I think. 

Second, I'm glad you explained you're not interested in conversation with me because I'm not a Shamy shipper, to be honest, the thought of somebody considering my words, let's say "not adequate?" to be read (at least that was my impression), because I'm not a fan of "that or that" is not making me comfortable either. But your point being you want to discuss the show with the people of fellow opinions is as good as any. But the thing is, there's also a few of us and you can be unfortunate to run into those, who enjoys the diversity, talking our feelings and thoughts with people of different mindsets, letting ourselves challenge our POV's at times, liking the way we can maybe add a thing or two to our own this way. And quite a lot of people here, I'd say don't mind  much if person is a shipper, non shipper, or whatever. Even Carlos I consider as "one of us" (at least I think, not like to speak for you man).  Ages ago, when I was on forums more frequently, I - devoted Shamy shipper and him - Lenny one had quite an amount debates about topics that we couldn't have more opposite opinions on. We agreed our conversations were  benefiting for both of us. That, and many other discussions with other members are the reason I can sometimes join controversial debates, maybe assuming the other party could enjoy them as well. So sorry for my misinterpretation, again, I'll remember not to answer you in the future.

It's true our "angles" couldn't be more opposite and it's a waste of time to continue a conversation, but more about it being a problem of me not being a shipper, I think it's about us, being a different people on forum for a different reasons. And that's fine. To each of it's own. If you found our debate to be an argument (which I do not), and I managed to offend you somehow unintentionally, my apologies. 

Yep. It's again thousand and a one world - the art of "straight to the point," is yet another I have to master. If you got here, you have a cookie, if not, at least I can go to bed without that itching feeling that I'm talked about "behind my back." 

And thank's Carlos for reminder I'm a woman. Reading so many "he's" I almost got confused 

[Carlos]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 11:51 AM, tallin said:

Okey one last time. (Sorry Tensor, I'll promise to keep it at topic from now on and if there would be exchange - then by PM's). I wasn't about to respond since I do think it sincerely that I respect your decision to not , but well, when you're being talk about over and over in third person , it's hard to not speak for yourself. At least once to clarify.

First as you said, you're right to choose the post you read, answer, or not - as anybody here. I take that as a "vow" here. From that, I think my misunderstanding that while you did answered  my post, you didn't ignored it as is your right but actually wrote back, I could thought you were interested in conversation. Naive of me maybe? But understandable I think. 

Second, I'm glad you explained you're not interested in conversation with me because I'm not a Shamy shipper, to be honest, the thought of somebody considering my words, let's say "not adequate?" to be read (at least that was my impression), because I'm not a fan of "that or that" is not making me comfortable either. But your point being you want to discuss the show with the people of fellow opinions is as good as any. But the thing is, there's also a few of us and you can be unfortunate to run into those, who enjoys the diversity, talking our feelings and thoughts with people of different mindsets, letting ourselves challenge our POV's at times, liking the way we can maybe add a thing or two to our own this way. And quite a lot of people here, I'd say don't mind  much if person is a shipper, non shipper, or whatever. Even Carlos I consider as "one of us" (at least I think, not like to speak for you man).  Ages ago, when I was on forums more frequently, I - devoted Shamy shipper and him - Lenny one had quite an amount debates about topics that we couldn't have more opposite opinions on. We agreed our conversations were  benefiting for both of us. That, and many other discussions with other members are the reason I can sometimes join controversial debates, maybe assuming the other party could enjoy them as well. So sorry for my misinterpretation, again, I'll remember not to answer you in the future.

It's true our "angles" couldn't be more opposite and it's a waste of time to continue a conversation, but more about it being a problem of me not being a shipper, I think it's about us, being a different people on forum for a different reasons. And that's fine. To each of it's own. If you found our debate to be an argument (which I do not), and I managed to offend you somehow unintentionally, my apologies. 

Yep. It's again thousand and a one world - the art of "straight to the point," is yet another I have to master. If you got here, you have a cookie, if not, at least I can go to bed without that itching feeling that I'm talked about "behind my back." 

And thank's Carlos for reminder I'm a woman. Reading so many "he's" I almost got confused 

1,000,000,000,000 likes to your post. To me, as long as in the discussion posters are being respectful to one another, there shouldn't be any problems. I really enjoyed our discussions, and even if we didn't agree most of the time, we could both at least see why the other person had a different opinion. Our interactions actually enriched my points of view. But as you say, to each their own. The one thing that puzzles me is how can anyone get mad at you and be so dismissive when you're one of the most civil, respectful and sweet posters here.

PS: I also posted more here but the quality of the show (IMO) has decreased severely.

 

[wowbagger]

3 hours ago, Carlos said:

1,000,000,000,000 likes to your post. To me, as long as in the discussion posters are being respectful to one another, there shouldn't be any problems. I really enjoyed our discussions, and even if we didn't agree most of the time, we could both at least see why the other person had a different opinion. Our interactions actually enriched my points of view. But as you say, to each their own. The one thing that puzzles me is how can anyone get mad at you and be so dismissive when you're one of the most civil, respectful and sweet posters here.

 

Hear, hear!

Edited April 26, 2016 by wowbagger

[camelliayao]

19 hours ago, Serena_nyc1995 said:

Are you kidding ? 9x23 sounds awful. It was a typical 'couple' storyline lifted from any stereotypical sitcom. Both Sheldon and Amy were both awful. Nothing about Amy was like season 4.  It was just what any girlfriend(Bernie or Penny) in her place would do. What makes it so brilliant or 'strong' ? 

Why do people think Amy is strong only when she is AGAINST Sheldon ? Why can't they be strong TOGETHER ?  

Season 4 Shamy were strong together. I miss season 4 Shamy sometimes- Playing counterfactuals, creating Herb Garden Germination rumor and outwitting everyone else together ? Do you see them doing that now ? I don't. The writers are already not giving us any progress on their sex life/engagement. The least they could do is give us a little of season 4 Shamy back. 

And wouldn't it have been funnier if Amy joined Sheldon and the guys for a change and SHE acted  geeky and fun,  to begin with ?

And Shopping ? Really ? What happened to Amy ? They could atleast have come up with something a bit less cliche- like Amy's plan to go to a museum, aquarium  or a literary event ?

The above quoted post was removed by the poster-Tensor

First, I really don't like being over dramatic, but since you started it, here we go!

Are you kidding? Why is it Amy's fault in 9x23? Why is Amy awful? If Sheldon wanted to go to the movie and he told Amy about it but Amy said no, you can't go, I'll admit it was Amy's fault.

But what did Sheldon do? He didn't even have the decency to just call Amy to cancel their plan. He HIRED Stuart to go shopping with Amy without giving Amy a notice. Perhaps Amy was all happy that she could have some alone time with her boyfriend, and maybe they could talk about science on the way (yes, they still talk about science nowadays, like Amy told Sheldon about the study about the wild in 9x20.)

Also scientists are humans too. They eat, drink, poop and yes, they shop. So what? Ok I get it that Amy wanting romance is making her less quirky, but Amy can't even shop now? Besides who told you the shopping was all for Amy? Maybe they were planning to go to the bookstore.

And again, since you started it - Sheldon now likes Taylor Swift and he went to Vegas with his friends, so, REALLY? WHAT HAPPENED TO SHELDON? THEY COULD'VE AT LEAST HAVE COME UP WITH SOMETING A BIT LESS CLICHE.

And since when watching Advengers is the defination of "geeky and fun"? Lol you have pretty low standards for fun, don't you. Oh, right, I forgot. Maybe everything that Sheldon loves is fun.

More importantly, if Sheldon asked Amy to watch the movie but Amy said no, maybe we can blame Amy. But HE DIDN'T EVEN TELL HER! How was she supposed to know that they were at the movie theatre??? How could she possibly join them?

Yes I think they were like season 4 Shamy in this episode because the way Amy got back at Sheldon was pretty clever. She didn't ack like a doormat, or simply complain. His "smart plans" bit him in the ass. And I think any other girl wouldn't think of this plan.

"Why is Amy strong only when she is AGAINST Sheldon?", well, why is Sheldon only acting nice and not a jerk when he's not with Amy? In addition, why the hell didn't he call Amy and just tell her the truth?

I have a feeling that your post (and sadly my post, since I replied to you) is going to be moved to the shipping lanes because it's not Shamy supportive...

Oh boy, can we just have a "I love Sheldon and he can do nothing wrong even though sometimes he's wrong well other people must be more wrong and although I claim to be a Shamy fan but frankly I don't give a fuck about Amy all I care about is Sheldon also Amy must cater to Sheldon's every need and makes him happly all the time and since Amy's a scientist she doesn't have the right to go on romantic dinners or go shopping or do anything normal" thread?

Edited April 28, 2016 by Tensor
Post and quoted post edited for content.

[camelliayao]

On 2016年4月22日 at 8:51 AM, tallin said:

Okey one last time. (Sorry Tensor, I'll promise to keep it at topic from now on and if there would be exchange - then by PM's). I wasn't about to respond since I do think it sincerely that I respect your decision to not , but well, when you're being talk about over and over in third person , it's hard to not speak for yourself. At least once to clarify.

First as you said, you're right to choose the post you read, answer, or not - as anybody here. I take that as a "vow" here. From that, I think my misunderstanding that while you did answered  my post, you didn't ignored it as is your right but actually wrote back, I could thought you were interested in conversation. Naive of me maybe? But understandable I think. 

Second, I'm glad you explained you're not interested in conversation with me because I'm not a Shamy shipper, to be honest, the thought of somebody considering my words, let's say "not adequate?" to be read (at least that was my impression), because I'm not a fan of "that or that" is not making me comfortable either. But your point being you want to discuss the show with the people of fellow opinions is as good as any. But the thing is, there's also a few of us and you can be unfortunate to run into those, who enjoys the diversity, talking our feelings and thoughts with people of different mindsets, letting ourselves challenge our POV's at times, liking the way we can maybe add a thing or two to our own this way. And quite a lot of people here, I'd say don't mind  much if person is a shipper, non shipper, or whatever. Even Carlos I consider as "one of us" (at least I think, not like to speak for you man).  Ages ago, when I was on forums more frequently, I - devoted Shamy shipper and him - Lenny one had quite an amount debates about topics that we couldn't have more opposite opinions on. We agreed our conversations were  benefiting for both of us. That, and many other discussions with other members are the reason I can sometimes join controversial debates, maybe assuming the other party could enjoy them as well. So sorry for my misinterpretation, again, I'll remember not to answer you in the future.

It's true our "angles" couldn't be more opposite and it's a waste of time to continue a conversation, but more about it being a problem of me not being a shipper, I think it's about us, being a different people on forum for a different reasons. And that's fine. To each of it's own. If you found our debate to be an argument (which I do not), and I managed to offend you somehow unintentionally, my apologies. 

Yep. It's again thousand and a one world - the art of "straight to the point," is yet another I have to master. If you got here, you have a cookie, if not, at least I can go to bed without that itching feeling that I'm talked about "behind my back." 

And thank's Carlos for reminder I'm a woman. Reading so many "he's" I almost got confused 

I replied to your first post because I thought we were talking about the difference between TV shows and reality. I was interested in that topic. But in your second post, the topic changed to why you think Shamy would not work. And I don't have the interests to reply to that. That's why I wrote the second one as a clarification that I'm not gonna continue to read the rest of your posts to avoid wasting your time.

I really don't understand why "I'm not interested in other people's opinions about Shamy" can be considered as dismissive. I didn't say I'm not interested because you're wrong or because your posts are not worthy reading. I chose not to read them for personal reasons. I simply don't have the interests to listen to another person's emotional journey of "used to be a Shamy fan but not anymore" because I've heard a lot of the reasons and they'll all the same and usually I don't agree with these people. If we continue the conversation, it'll probably be like this:

Shamy's relationship will not work because of ABCD.

No, I think despite ABCD, their relationship will still work.

No, it won't...

Yes, it will.

...

I consider this a waste of my time. But you're free to continue with the conversation. If you felt that my posts offended you, my apologies.

And actually you name was constantly mentioned because another member called me out. I was explaining to him why I did what I did. If it made you uncomfortable, again, my apologies.

[wowbagger]

On April 27, 2016 at 4:06 AM, camelliayao said:

The above quoted post was removed by the poster-Tensor

Are you kidding? Why is it Amy's fault in 9x23? Why is Amy awful? If Sheldon wanted to go to the movie and he told Amy about it but Amy said no, you can't go, I'll admit it was Amy's fault.

But what did Sheldon do? He didn't even have the decency to just call Amy to cancel their plan. He HIRED Stuart to go shopping with Amy without giving Amy a notice. Perhaps Amy was all happy that she could have some alone time with her boyfriend, and maybe they could talk about science on the way (yes, they still talk about science nowadays, like Amy told Sheldon about the study about the wild in 9x20.)

This is interesting. I agree that Sheldon is being an absolute dingleberry in 9X23, from the sounds of it. The whole thing about outsourcing boyfriend duties to Stuart is just..... Ouf. So much for maturing, eh, Doctor Cooper? And God bless you, show, for turning a pair of friends who used to communicate beautifully, into a romantic couple who have seemingly only the briefest acquaintance with Their Damn Words.

And Amy's turning the tables on him by hiring Stuart to go back to yell at him sounds like it will be funny, and is at least creative, relative to the dreaded 'Amy is sad that her boyfriend is Sheldon Lee Cooper'.

On April 27, 2016 at 4:06 AM, camelliayao said:

The above quoted post was removed by the poster-Tensor

Also scientists are humans too. They eat, drink, poop and yes, they shop. So what? Ok I get it that Amy wanting romance is making her less quirky, but Amy can't even shop now? Besides who told you the shopping was all for Amy? Maybe they were planning to go to the bookstore.

And again, since you started it - Sheldon now likes Taylor Swift and he went to Vegas with his friends, so, REALLY? WHAT HAPPENED TO SHELDON? THEY COULD'VE AT LEAST HAVE COME UP WITH SOMETING A BIT LESS CLICHE.

And since when watching Advengers is the defination of "geeky and fun"? Oh, right, I forgot. Maybe everything that Sheldon loves is fun.

Shopping? Really? Of all the cliched (and the cliche is my objection here) 'girlfriend' activities the show could have picked, it went for shopping? And non-specific shopping, even. If the show had even thrown us the bone of shopping for something off-the-wall and eccentric, that would have been one thing. But 'shopping'? Could the show be any lazier with its gender stereotypes if it tried? Understand me, my objection is not to to shopping. I like shopping! Big fan! I like having things. I have opinions on the things that I have. I like shopping fine. But 'my girlfriend wants to take me shopping and I don't wanna' is just such a face-palm-worthily cliched situation. Straight from the 1950s.

As to why it's not as eyeroll-y that Sheldon likes Taylor Swift? Simple. That development, at the very least, has the comic thrill of the incongruous, the unexpected. We do not live in a TV landscape where heterosexual (and not especially metrosexual) men avow their devotion to female teen-pop idols. One would not expect the prissy anally-retentive academic to be All About the Swift. Therefore, it is amusing that the fussbudget man of science rocks out to -Shake it Off? Is that a thing? I do not know the lady's oeuvre.

On the other hand, we- or at least I- live in a TV landscape absolutely lousy with women pouting over their schlub boyfriends who forget their anniversaries, or won't buy them flowers, or say pretty things to them, or hold their handbags for them while they go shopping. We have reached saturation- in fact, we had reached saturation some decades ago.

So for yet another woman to be added to the landscape- and a woman who had started out as something different? Yeah, not a fan. Basically, if I wanted to watch a sitcom about a woman with an inattentive schmuck of a boyfriend, I....well, I would be a different person, but also I would not really lack for choice. I mean, I could switch my attention to Howardette, and I'm covering some of the bases already, aren't I? My objection is not to shopping, or to wanting traditional romance. My objection is to the laziness of the writing.

...Oh, and by the way, I agree that there's nothing particularly geeky about watching the Avengers film. The Marvel universe is as mainstream as mainstream can be now. It's part and parcel of the laziness of the writing that the guys are rarely allowed to actually show specific, detailed knowledge that only actual geeks would have.

[veejay]

Uhh, sometimes watching a shopping channel went wrong…

 

[A.D.A.]

48 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

[snip]

Shopping? Really? Of all the cliched (and the cliche is my objection here) 'girlfriend' activities the show could have picked, it went for shopping? And non-specific shopping, even. If the show had even thrown us the bone of shopping for something off-the-wall and eccentric, that would have been one thing. But 'shopping'? Could the show be any lazier with its gender stereotypes if it tried? Understand me, my objection is not to to shopping. I like shopping! Big fan! I like having things. I have opinions on the things that I have. I like shopping fine. But 'my girlfriend wants to take me shopping and I don't wanna' is just such a face-palm-worthily cliched situation. Straight from the 1950s.

[snip]

...Oh, and by the way, I agree that there's nothing particularly geeky about watching the Avengers film. The Marvel universe is as mainstream as mainstream can be now. It's part and parcel of the laziness of the writing that the guys are rarely allowed to actually show specific, detailed knowledge that only actual geeks would have.

I just had to comment on that because I never understood that particular cliché. Unless you're already in a situation where you are together as a couple and don't really want to split (let's say, on a city trip holiday) and happen upon a store that only one person is interested in, why would anyone take someone to specifically shop at a place that that person will find boring? Compassion for the partner's nerves aside, I have yet to meet a human being who would rather shop with a bored, possibly whining partner who can't wait to get out of the store than alone or with an interested friend. Such a strange trope.

And too true about the Marvel movies. I would like to add to that, just liking GoT does not make you a nerd anymore - especially not if you deem your viewing party too cool for cosplay. Hell, I wouldn't consider me and my friends True Nerds, but even we were wearing sigil t-shirts last Monday (Lannisters represent!). Maybe the gang would have made fun of us, too, now that they are the cool kids.

Edited April 28, 2016 by A.D.A.

[hokie3457]

17 minutes ago, veejay said:

Uhh, sometimes watching a shopping channel went wrong…

 

But this is magnificent for the quick touch on the shoulder and the "bye".  It implicitly says "hey baby, I'm gonna try on these clothes, but I'll be right back. I love you!" (All in that one quick touch on the shoulder and the verbalized "bye"!)

 

[camelliayao]

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

This is interesting. I agree that Sheldon is being an absolute dingleberry in 9X23, from the sounds of it. The whole thing about outsourcing boyfriend duties to Stuart is just..... Ouf. So much for maturing, eh, Doctor Cooper? And God bless you, show, for turning a pair of friends who used to communicate beautifully, into a romantic couple who have seemingly only the briefest acquaintance with Their Damn Words.

And Amy's turning the tables on him by hiring Stuart to go back to yell at him sounds like it will be funny, and is at least creative, relative to the dreaded 'Amy is sad that her boyfriend is Sheldon Lee Cooper'.

Shopping? Really? Of all the cliched (and the cliche is my objection here) 'girlfriend' activities the show could have picked, it went for shopping? And non-specific shopping, even. If the show had even thrown us the bone of shopping for something off-the-wall and eccentric, that would have been one thing. But 'shopping'? Could the show be any lazier with its gender stereotypes if it tried? Understand me, my objection is not to to shopping. I like shopping! Big fan! I like having things. I have opinions on the things that I have. I like shopping fine. But 'my girlfriend wants to take me shopping and I don't wanna' is just such a face-palm-worthily cliched situation. Straight from the 1950s.

As to why it's not as eyeroll-y that Sheldon likes Taylor Swift? Simple. That development, at the very least, has the comic thrill of the incongruous, the unexpected. We do not live in a TV landscape where heterosexual (and not especially metrosexual) men avow their devotion to female teen-pop idols. One would not expect the prissy anally-retentive academic to be All About the Swift. Therefore, it is amusing that the fussbudget man of science rocks out to -Shake it Off? Is that a thing? I do not know the lady's oeuvre.

On the other hand, we- or at least I- live in a TV landscape absolutely lousy with women pouting over their schlub boyfriends who forget their anniversaries, or won't buy them flowers, or say pretty things to them, or hold their handbags for them while they go shopping. We have reached saturation- in fact, we had reached saturation some decades ago.

So for yet another woman to be added to the landscape- and a woman who had started out as something different? Yeah, not a fan. Basically, if I wanted to watch a sitcom about a woman with an inattentive schmuck of a boyfriend, I....well, I would be a different person, but also I would not really lack for choice. I mean, I could switch my attention to Howardette, and I'm covering some of the bases already, aren't I? My objection is not to shopping, or to wanting traditional romance. My objection is to the laziness of the writing.

...Oh, and by the way, I agree that there's nothing particularly geeky about watching the Avengers film. The Marvel universe is as mainstream as mainstream can be now. It's part and parcel of the laziness of the writing that the guys are rarely allowed to actually show specific, detailed knowledge that only actual geeks would have.

The thing about Sheldon and Taylor Swift is at that time 1989 turned out to be a huge success everybody was kissing Taylor's ass. So was the show. There was nothing about unexpected comic thrill. It was so obvious that the writers just tried to mention Taylor in their episode so they could keep up with the trend. That was out of character to me.  I don't think Sheldon can even remotely relate to Taylor's songs... Well he might like the beats and the melody, but I think the lyrics would be insufferable to him. They were filled with happy dippy feelings lol, even Shake if off. Mean might have a better shot than Shake if off.

And I don't get it why it bothers you so much that Amy does stuff that normal or typical girls do. Why is it so nice of her to do nerdy stuff...I think it's nice that she gets to experience all the things she secretly wanted but couldn't have before.

And if you think Amy going shopping is lazy writing? Well to me Sheldon liking Taylor, especially right after 1989 became a success is even more lazy writing. As a huge Taylor fan, I think it was just the writers desperately trying to be "cool".

Edited April 28, 2016 by camelliayao

[wowbagger]

1 minute ago, A.D.A. said:

I just had to comment on that because I never understood that particular cliché. Unless you're already in a situation where you are together as a couple and don't really want to split (let's say, on a city trip holiday) and happen upon a store that only one person is interested in, why would anyone take someone to specifically shop at a place that that person will find boring? Compassion for the partner's nerves aside, I have yet to meet a human being who would rather shop with a bored, possibly whining partner who can't wait to get out of the store than alone or with an interested friend. Such a strange trope.

And too true about the Marvel movies. I would like to add to that, just liking GoT does not make you a nerd anymore - especially not if you deem your viewing party too cool for cosplay. Hell, I wouldn't even consider me and my friends True Nerds, but even we were wearing sigil t-shirts last Monday (Lannisters represent!). Maybe the gang would have made fun of us, too.

Amen to both. My mum used to take me shopping when I was a whiny brat of a child who just wanted to be left in the library and then have pizza when mum was done, and she needed to take me to make sure stuff fit me, and she did not have fun. Why would you put yourself and your partner through that ordeal? In what universe would you court the lovely experience of a petulant Sheldon Cooper? What, Amy desperately needs his opinion on which cardigan will make her look most like Betty White's frumpy village librarian sister (So....Meemaw, I guess?)?

And amen to the GoT thing as well. GoT, FFS. The most-hyped, most-illegally-downloaded show of the past decade. And indeed, since when are the guys too cool to cosplay? And since when does the supposedly Robert Heinlein-reading Leonard not read the Song of Ice and Fire books? And since when does the closure-loving Sheldon Cooper risk his blood pressure on a book series that is famously not only unfinished, but whose waiting interval between books gives one a new appreciation of the term 'infinity'?

[Tensor]

10 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

And since when does the supposedly Robert Heinlein-reading Leonard not read the Song of Ice and Fire books?

I have most of Heinlein's books,  and while not memorized, I can give detailed accounts of almost all of them from multiple readings.  I've never read the Song of Fire and Ice books.  

[camelliayao]

It's just fascinating that even in an episode where Sheldon's absolutely an ass that people are still able to conclude it was Amy's fault somehow. Interesting.

You don't even know what they were shopping for, maybe Sheldon wanted to buy something too. Otherwise he wouldn't agree to go shopping with Amy in the first place. In 9x22, when Sheldon was unwilling to go to the wine tasting party, he just wouldn't go. The fact that he agreed to go shopping with Amy indicated that he was Ok with it. 

And the problem is not even what they planned doing. The fact is he agreed to go before the whole substitution thing happened. Amy didn't  make him or force him or anything. When he'd rather stay in the line, he could've called Amy to cancel the plan, or just told Amy he hates shopping, or at least texted Amy to ask if she was Ok with going shopping with Stuart. But did he do any of those things? No.

 

[April]

RE: Marvel being too mainstream

OMG what even?? I'm sure we already had this discussion somewhere but this whole idea of "you're not a true geek unless..." is such bullshit! This kind of gatekeeping is such a huge and annoying issue in geeky and nerdy spaces it's pissing me off to no end. Pardon my French but: fuck that!

The show started before the MCU became mainstream but the guys always loved both Marvel and DC comics. Now this whole superhero movie thing has blown up and nerdy is the new cool - but what do you expect the show to do? Turn the guys into a bunch of snobby hipsters that accuse Marvel of selling out and telling everyone how they liked Iron Man before it was cool?!??? This is ridiculous. They read the comics,  they watched all the other Marvel movies - of course they will go and watch Civil War! And of course the show will build a story around it since it fits perfectly with the release date. I'd be worried something was wrong if they didn't!

[wowbagger]

12 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

The thing about Sheldon and Taylor Swift is at that time 1989 turned out to be a huge success everybody was kissing Taylor's ass. So was the show. There was nothing about unexpected comic thrill. It was so obvious that the writers just tried to mention Taylor in their episode so they could keep up with the trend. That was out of character to me.  I don't think Sheldon can even remotely relate to Taylor's songs... Well he might like the beats and the melody, but I think the lyrics would be insufferable to him. They were filled with happy dippy feelings lol, even Shake if off. Mean might have a better shot than Shake if off.

And I don't get it why it bothers you so much that Amy does stuff that normal or typical girls do. Why is it so nice of her to do nerdy stuff...I think it's nice that she gets to experience all the things she secretly wanted but couldn't have before.

And if you think Amy going shopping is lazy writing? Well to me Sheldon liking Taylor, especially right after 1989 became a success is even more lazy writing. As a huge Taylor fan, I think it was just the writers desperately trying to be "cool".

Ha! I didn't know that about 1989. Figures that the show would only have got on it once it became a smash hit. I'm actually amazed that they worked the reference in as soon as you say, Normally, I'd expect TBBT to be the embarrassing dad of popular culture- if TBBT's aware of it, it peaked a while ago. As to Sheldon liking Swift: I completely buy that the show made the reference for the reason you say. That makes complete sense to me. But it still works as a short, unexpected gag, for the reasons I mention: there's something incongruous about prissy Sheldon Lee Cooper getting down on hippie-dippie pop idols. I'd roll my eyes if they kept going back to that well, but I would be down with checking out a tag to an episode with Sheldon getting his boogie on to one of the songs you mention. Something like that.

As to Amy and 'normal typical girl' stuff: how about we steer clear of what does and does not make a girl 'normal' or 'typical'? I was referring to the representation of women in fiction, especially TV sitcoms. And there, I maintain, there has historically not been as much variety in female characters, especially love interests. My problem with Amy isn't that she's 'normal' or 'typical' now.* My problem with Amy, as I said in my post, was that the TV landscape is full to bursting with girls who want to drag their menfolk shopping or whatever, and are upset when said menfolk come up with weak-ass excuses. I don't need to see another iteration of that. There's nothing unexpected or funny or fresh about it, to me.

*And what is 'typical' anyway? I thought Season Four Amy was quite 'typical' of some academics I have met. And she is an academic, after all. 

5 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I have most of Heinlein's books,  and while not memorized, I can give detailed accounts of almost all of them from multiple readings.  I've never read the Song of Fire and Ice books.  

Oh yes, I have no problem with Leonard not having read the books, per se. And hard sci-fi is obviously different from fantasy, and so on. But then Leonard got into the show, and...I don't know, Leonard strikes me as the kind of guy who would read the books if he was interested in the universe. I know, I know, that episode was so choc-a-bloc with WTF that it's silly to single this one thing out, but what can I say?

[veejay]

7 minutes ago, April said:

..................

OMG what even?? I'm sure we already had this discussion somewhere but this whole idea of "you're not a true geek unless..." is such bullshit! This kind of gatekeeping is such a huge and annoying issue in geeky and nerdy spaces it's pissing me off to no end. Pardon my French but: fuck that!

.................

Welcome to my "Community"!

[April]

9 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Oh yes, I have no problem with Leonard not having read the books, per se. And hard sci-fi is obviously different from fantasy, and so on. But then Leonard got into the show, and...I don't know, Leonard strikes me as the kind of guy who would read the books if he was interested in the universe. I know, I know, that episode was so choc-a-bloc with WTF that it's silly to single this one thing out, but what can I say?

You mean Leonard, the guy who didn't know that Dumbledore died in the Harry Potter books? THAT guy?? lol

Edit to clarify: I think Leonard is the kind of guy who might read the books but apparently he's way behind everybody else when it comes to these mainstream kind of things.

4 minutes ago, veejay said:

Welcome to my "Community"!

Edited April 28, 2016 by April

[veejay]

5 minutes ago, April said:

 

[wowbagger]

25 minutes ago, April said:

RE: Marvel being too mainstream

OMG what even?? I'm sure we already had this discussion somewhere but this whole idea of "you're not a true geek unless..." is such bullshit! This kind of gatekeeping is such a huge and annoying issue in geeky and nerdy spaces it's pissing me off to no end. Pardon my French but: fuck that!

The show started before the MCU became mainstream but the guys always loved both Marvel and DC comics. Now this whole superhero movie thing has blown up and nerdy is the new cool - but what do you expect the show to do? Turn the guys into a bunch of snobby hipsters that accuse Marvel of selling out and telling everyone how they liked Iron Man before it was cool?!??? This is ridiculous. They read the comics,  they watched all the other Marvel movies - of course they will go and watch Civil War! And of course the show will build a story around it since it fits perfectly with the release date. I'd be worried something was wrong if they didn't!

Just to clarify: I'm not saying that liking Marvel makes you mainstream or that you have to resign your nerd badge. Not at all- I completely agree that that sort of snobbery is- well, pretty geeky, but also truly obnoxious. I'm saying that being into the MCU is not in and of itself a marker of niche interests. As in: if the guys spouted arcane knowledge about something random and fairly obscure (like an unpopular Doctor- Colin Baker? You'd know better- don't you watch DW?), then maybe that in and of itself would say 'yep, pretty geeky'. But saying 'Avengers+GoT+vague references to Doctor Who=Geeky' is, to me, the equivalent of Penny being horrified at herself for knowing who Chewbacca was.

15 minutes ago, April said:

You mean Leonard, the guy who didn't know that Dumbledore died in the Harry Potter books? THAT guy?? lol

Edit to clarify: I think Leonard is the kind of guy who might read the books but apparently he's way behind everybody else when it comes to these mainstream kind of things.

HA! Forgot about that. Bless him, slow reader, eh? And...apparently with miraculous internet-spoiler-dodging powers! Teach me your ways, Leonard Hofstadter.

Edited April 28, 2016 by wowbagger

[camelliayao]

21 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Ha! I didn't know that about 1989. Figures that the show would only have got on it once it became a smash hit. I'm actually amazed that they worked the reference in as soon as you say, Normally, I'd expect TBBT to be the embarrassing dad of popular culture- if TBBT's aware of it, it peaked a while ago. As to Sheldon liking Swift: I completely buy that the show made the reference for the reason you say. That makes complete sense to me. But it still works as a short, unexpected gag, for the reasons I mention: there's something incongruous about prissy Sheldon Lee Cooper getting down on hippie-dippie pop idols. I'd roll my eyes if they kept going back to that well, but I would be down with checking out a tag to an episode with Sheldon getting his boogie on to one of the songs you mention. Something like that.

As to Amy and 'normal typical girl' stuff: how about we steer clear of what does and does not make a girl 'normal' or 'typical'? I was referring to the representation of women in fiction, especially TV sitcoms. And there, I maintain, there has historically not been as much variety in female characters, especially love interests. My problem with Amy isn't that she's 'normal' or 'typical' now.* My problem with Amy, as I said in my post, was that the TV landscape is full to bursting with girls who want to drag their menfolk shopping or whatever, and are upset when said menfolk come up with weak-ass excuses. I don't need to see another iteration of that. There's nothing unexpected or funny or fresh about it, to me.

*And what is 'typical' anyway? I thought Season Four Amy was quite 'typical' of some academics I have met. And she is an academic, after all. 

I remembered I just felt embarrassing and found it not funny at all at the Taylor reference because it came out of nowhere, especially when Sheldon started to quote "Shake if off"... Oh boy, I felt I could almost see the writers saying, "See? We are cool people."

Well Amy is not the kind of academic you met. But she's not the typical girlfriend on television either just because she goes shopping. She on one hand has the quirky side, but also wants to experience those things "typical girls on television" would do. Anyway I find this quality in her very entertaining. And I can relate to her because in my country academic girls also love go shopping lol.

Edited April 28, 2016 by camelliayao

[wowbagger]

32 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

It's just fascinating that even in an episode where Sheldon's absolutely an ass that people are still able to conclude it was Amy's fault somehow. Interesting.

Amy's...fault? No, I'm pretty sure I said upthread that I think Sheldon was being an eejit and deserved a good telling-off. And I am glad that Amy delivered it to him in creative fashion. Bonus points for poor Stuart getting a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of his own back at one member of the gang, at least.

I dislike the 'girl takes boyfriend shopping' trope, but that has nothing to do with blame. Hand on heart.