Debate Zone [Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9

[April]

1 minute ago, wowbagger said:

Just to clarify: I'm not saying that liking Marvel makes you mainstream or that you have to resign your nerd badge. Not at all- I completely agree that that sort of snobbery is- well, pretty geeky, but also truly obnoxious. I'm saying that being into the MCU is not in and of itself a marker of niche interests. As in: if the guys were into something truly obscure (like an unpopular Doctor Who- Colin Baker?), then maybe that in and of itself would say 'yep, pretty geeky'. But saying 'Avengers+GoT+vague references to Doctor Who=Geeky' is, to me, the equivalent of Penny being horrified at herself for knowing who Chewbacca was.

Sure, but again a lot of these things became mainstream during the show's run. Possibly even in part because of the show - there was surely a bit of a synergy effect at play at the time. What might have been an obscure reference in 2007 is now common knowledge. What do you do with that as a writer? Trying to dive into more obscure niches in order to prove to have proper geek cred or whatever is exactly this kind of obnoxious BS that fandom gatekeepers do. And I say this as someone who's watched all of Doctor Who and would love nothing more than Sheldon making a comment about how he's listening to the latest Big Finish story! But I also don't think it makes him less of a DW fan if he doesn't. Or that it makes the show less geeky. Or that going for big geeky events like Star Wars or GoT coming back or the latest MCU movie (which are all big events for many geeks) is the show itself making a huge statement about the epitome of geekdom. I think it's only true to the characters that they're excited like pretty much any other fan of those franchises that they get all these cool movies and shows and so on. That is part of the geeky/nerdy culture at the present and the show is spot on with that.

[nickelette424]

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

This is interesting. I agree that Sheldon is being an absolute dingleberry in 9X23, from the sounds of it. The whole thing about outsourcing boyfriend duties to Stuart is just..... Ouf. So much for maturing, eh, Doctor Cooper? And God bless you, show, for turning a pair of friends who used to communicate beautifully, into a romantic couple who have seemingly only the briefest acquaintance with Their Damn Words.

And Amy's turning the tables on him by hiring Stuart to go back to yell at him sounds like it will be funny, and is at least creative, relative to the dreaded 'Amy is sad that her boyfriend is Sheldon Lee Cooper'.

Shopping? Really? Of all the cliched (and the cliche is my objection here) 'girlfriend' activities the show could have picked, it went for shopping? And non-specific shopping, even. If the show had even thrown us the bone of shopping for something off-the-wall and eccentric, that would have been one thing. But 'shopping'? Could the show be any lazier with its gender stereotypes if it tried? Understand me, my objection is not to to shopping. I like shopping! Big fan! I like having things. I have opinions on the things that I have. I like shopping fine. But 'my girlfriend wants to take me shopping and I don't wanna' is just such a face-palm-worthily cliched situation. Straight from the 1950s.

As to why it's not as eyeroll-y that Sheldon likes Taylor Swift? Simple. That development, at the very least, has the comic thrill of the incongruous, the unexpected. We do not live in a TV landscape where heterosexual (and not especially metrosexual) men avow their devotion to female teen-pop idols. One would not expect the prissy anally-retentive academic to be All About the Swift. Therefore, it is amusing that the fussbudget man of science rocks out to -Shake it Off? Is that a thing? I do not know the lady's oeuvre.

On the other hand, we- or at least I- live in a TV landscape absolutely lousy with women pouting over their schlub boyfriends who forget their anniversaries, or won't buy them flowers, or say pretty things to them, or hold their handbags for them while they go shopping. We have reached saturation- in fact, we had reached saturation some decades ago.

So for yet another woman to be added to the landscape- and a woman who had started out as something different? Yeah, not a fan. Basically, if I wanted to watch a sitcom about a woman with an inattentive schmuck of a boyfriend, I....well, I would be a different person, but also I would not really lack for choice. I mean, I could switch my attention to Howardette, and I'm covering some of the bases already, aren't I? My objection is not to shopping, or to wanting traditional romance. My objection is to the laziness of the writing.

...Oh, and by the way, I agree that there's nothing particularly geeky about watching the Avengers film. The Marvel universe is as mainstream as mainstream can be now. It's part and parcel of the laziness of the writing that the guys are rarely allowed to actually show specific, detailed knowledge that only actual geeks would have.

Wow,  you know I'm with you a lot, but I'm not really bothered by the shipping thing.   It is such a normal thing that everyone has to do.   Shopping in and of itself is just a fact of life.  It would have been cool to hear them shopping for something quirky,  but then it wouldn't have been something Sheldon wanted to farm out.   I could see be bothered if she was going specifically for clothes shopping,  but we don't know what it is.   And I personally hate shopping,  so I always ask my friends or boyfriends to go with me to make it not so awful.   Of course,  the issue with the storyline is that all he had to do was tell her and she probably would have been cool with it.   But then there would be no storyline.   Maybe they just shouldn't have had the storyline.   At least looks like it will be entertaining as Amy handles it in a more old school Amy way.

[camelliayao]

33 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Amy's...fault? No, I'm pretty sure I said upthread that I think Sheldon was being an eejit and deserved a good telling-off. And I am glad that Amy delivered it to him in creative fashion. Bonus points for poor Stuart getting a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of his own back at one member of the gang, at least.

I dislike the 'girl takes boyfriend shopping' trope, but that has nothing to do with blame. Hand on heart.

Um...I wasn't talking about you...

[wowbagger]

41 minutes ago, nickelette424 said:

Wow,  you know I'm with you a lot, but I'm not really bothered by the shipping thing.   It is such a normal thing that everyone has to do.   Shopping in and of itself is just a fact of life.  It would have been cool to hear them shopping for something quirky,  but then it wouldn't have been something Sheldon wanted to farm out.   I could see be bothered if she was going specifically for clothes shopping,  but we don't know what it is.   And I personally hate shopping,  so I always ask my friends or boyfriends to go with me to make it not so awful.   Of course,  the issue with the storyline is that all he had to do was tell her and she probably would have been cool with it.   But then there would be no storyline.   Maybe they just shouldn't have had the storyline.   At least looks like it will be entertaining as Amy handles it in a more old school Amy way.

The bold would have been my preference! But I agree that Amy's reaction at least sounds entertaining.

[wowbagger]

50 minutes ago, April said:

Sure, but again a lot of these things became mainstream during the show's run. Possibly even in part because of the show - there was surely a bit of a synergy effect at play at the time. What might have been an obscure reference in 2007 is now common knowledge. What do you do with that as a writer? Trying to dive into more obscure niches in order to prove to have proper geek cred or whatever is exactly this kind of obnoxious BS that fandom gatekeepers do. And I say this as someone who's watched all of Doctor Who and would love nothing more than Sheldon making a comment about how he's listening to the latest Big Finish story! But I also don't think it makes him less of a DW fan if he doesn't. Or that it makes the show less geeky. Or that going for big geeky events like Star Wars or GoT coming back or the latest MCU movie (which are all big events for many geeks) is the show itself making a huge statement about the epitome of geekdom. I think it's only true to the characters that they're excited like pretty much any other fan of those franchises that they get all these cool movies and shows and so on. That is part of the geeky/nerdy culture at the present and the show is spot on with that.

Oh, sure- and again, I'm truly not a fan of geek shibboleth snobbery. Although, now I come to think of it, I would totally expect the gang to be obnoxious geekdom gatekeepers, especially Sheldon! I guess what I'm saying is that, for a show purportedly about outsiders with niche interests, the gang sure doesn't seem to have a load of non-mainstream pop-cultural interests- or even to have detailed, specific knowledge about their pop-cultural interests. I remember in an earlier season Sheldon and Stuart getting into an argument about some current controversy raging in the Marvel comic-book universe. Now, I couldn't tell you whether said controversy was indeed all that current, but the argument was detailed and had the authentic ring of people steeped in a specific fictional universe, going at it hammer and tongs. (Hmmmm....... I wonder what that reminds me of.........)

Both the patter and the rhythm of that argument were, to me, classic nerdery. Whereas now the show seems content with just saying 'Avengers!' and having the viewing audience say 'Ooooo.....how nerdy!', as opposed to '...........That massive summer blockbuster that basically everyone is going to watch? The summer blockbuster whose inevitable mangling of the comic books' continuity you're not going to touch on in any meaningful way, the way I would expect comic book nerds to? That one?'

To that end, I will give the show a tiny sliver of credit for lobbing a fairly random bit of ASOIAF trivia at us in the viewing party combustion episode. It doesn't at all make up for the balls-to-the-wall argument about continuity or fandom mass-guessing about e.g. who the hell Jon Snow's actual father is/ R+L=J/other GOT/ASOIAF controversy that I would expect of our nerds, but at the very least the show didn't just content itself with saying 'We heart Arya and Tyrion' or something.

[serena_1995]

2 hours ago, wowbagger said:

Oh, sure- and again, I'm truly not a fan of geek shibboleth snobbery. Although, now I come to think of it, I would totally expect the gang to be obnoxious geekdom gatekeepers, especially Sheldon! I guess what I'm saying is that, for a show purportedly about outsiders with niche interests, the gang sure doesn't seem to have a load of non-mainstream pop-cultural interests- or even to have detailed, specific knowledge about their pop-cultural interests. I remember in an earlier season Sheldon and Stuart getting into an argument about some current controversy raging in the Marvel comic-book universe. Now, I couldn't tell you whether said controversy was indeed all that current, but the argument was detailed and had the authentic ring of people steeped in a specific fictional universe, going at it hammer and tongs. (Hmmmm....... I wonder what that reminds me of.........)

Both the patter and the rhythm of that argument were, to me, classic nerdery. Whereas now the show seems content with just saying 'Avengers!' and having the viewing audience say 'Ooooo.....how nerdy!', as opposed to '...........That massive summer blockbuster that basically everyone is going to watch? The summer blockbuster whose inevitable mangling of the comic books' continuity you're not going to touch on in any meaningful way, the way I would expect comic book nerds to? That one?'

To that end, I will give the show a tiny sliver of credit for lobbing a fairly random bit of ASOIAF trivia at us in the viewing party combustion episode. It doesn't at all make up for the balls-to-the-wall argument about continuity or fandom mass-guessing about e.g. who the hell Jon Snow's actual father is/ R+L=J/other GOT/ASOIAF controversy that I would expect of our nerds, but at the very least the show didn't just content itself with saying 'We heart Arya and Tyrion' or something.

This is a show where 'Lets play D&D  ' is THE punchline .  Did you expect anything more ? LOL. BTW, when TBBT makes non-mainstream geek references like  Gygax   (in The Intimacy Acceleration episode) , 99% of audiences don't get it. So they go with the easiest mainstream stuff. I have always believed TBBT was never about science or geekery. The  science/ geek reference were always mere window dressing. 

 I want Amy to be more developed- did Amy  face any failures in her scientiffic career? Any dissapointments ? Any success ? Does she have any embarassing quirks that maybe Sheldon can help her with, for a change?  So far, nothing. 

But I agree with a lot of what you said earlier.  The whole "girlfriend gets mad at boyfriend for not going shopping" -  its a cut and paste storyline from any stereotypical sitcom couple on any tv show .The boyfriend would do something childish to piss off the girlfriend- its a common TV trope. It would be more or less the same,  if it was Howard/Bernadette. 

Ofcourse, Sheldon was a giant jerk in 9x23.I'm on Amy's side(by the looks of 9x23) ,  but in general,  Amy's interests, goals and likes have become extremely............bland  and generic. Since when was Amy  crazy about shopping ?. So yeah, her personality is being diluted'. Not a big fan of this change.  Because its not just this episode, it is almost every episode, for many seasons. Thats the only reason why I'm bringing this up about Amy.

 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Serena_nyc1995

[vonmar]

8 minutes ago, Serena_nyc1995 said:

This is a show where 'Lets play D&D  ' is THE punchline .  Did you expect anything more ? LOL. BTW, when TBBT makes non-mainstream geek references like  Gygax   (in The Intimacy Acceleration episode) , 99% of audiences don't get it. So they go with the easiest mainstream stuff. I have always believed TBBT was never about science or geekery. The  science/ geek reference were always mere window dressing. 

But I agree with a lot of what you said earlier.  The whole "girlfriend gets mad at boyfriend for not going shopping" -  its a cut and paste storyline from any stereotypical sitcom couple on any tv show .The boyfriend would do something childish to piss off the girlfriend- its a common TV trope. It would be more or less the same,  if it was Howard/Bernadette. If they were going for conflict, atleast make it about something creative/funny LOL- like idk, playing counter factuals together or planning to go to some literary event or mocking someone together(remember Brian Green ? lol) ?

Ofcourse, Sheldon was a giant jerk in 9x23.I'm on Amy's side(by the looks of 9x23) ,  but in general,  Amy's interests, goals and likes have become extremely............bland  and generic. Since when was Amy  crazy about shopping ?. So yeah, her personality is being diluted'. Not a big fan of this change.  Because its not just this episode, it is almost every episode, for many seasons. Thats the only reason why I'm bringing this up about Amy.

Where is the vintage 'Shamy' ? I want Amy to be more developed- did Amy  face any failures in her scientiffic career? Any dissapointments ? Any success ? Does she have any embarassing quirks that maybe Sheldon can help her with, for a change?  So far, nothing. So we'll just have to wait and see.

But we don't even know what they were going shopping for...shoes?..Victoria's Secret stuff?... nah that's stuff she would do with Penny.  It could have been something as banal as grocery shopping...we know from "The Closet Reconfiguration" that they have done that together before.  That's why I don't think that Amy was mad enough to go and drag him out of the theater by his ear but instead turned his whole "hired assistant" scheme on it's ear.

I felt the scene(s) sounded (on paper) very Shamy 2.0....Amy feeds him clues and lets him figure out where his "plan" went wrong.  And the bright spot for me is that he does and is sincere in his resolution of the matter.

Again, what I feel from the taping report and the promo pictures.  But I am not worried at all.

 

[Tonstar17]

I feel that was once again Sheldon not having a glue and his friends not telling him otherwise is really getting old. While should they anyway? He should know this things by now. Ffs he a genius. I think it was done as a one liner comic effect which actually would be very funny when aired. But as a shipper of the couple its progress that counts. I wouldn't see the funny after watching it again if that was lenny. We watch the show so differently from casuals cause we care.

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[Jonny]

3 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

I feel that was once again Sheldon not having a glue and his friends not telling him otherwise is really getting old. While should they anyway? He should know this things by now. Ffs he a genius. I think it was done as a one liner comic effect which actually would be very funny when aired. But as a shipper of the couple its progress that counts. I wouldn't see the funny after watching it again if that was lenny. We watch the show so differently from casuals cause we care.

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They are going to have disagreements and arguments that's just life, you just have to hope they are now better at dealing with them thanks to better communication.

I think some Shamy fans are still just a little scared still because the breakup is still fresh in their mind. It a was a buildup of small things over time that finally burnt Amy out. Sheldon hiring Stuart is the sort of similar behaviour in the past that would have added to Amy's concerns.

[nibbler747]

I thought I'd chime in on the shopping and Vintage vs. Modern Amy. 

As for fobbing off shopping commitments.  I think Sheldon was wrong.  He could have just called her and explained his situation (i.e. there is a movie I really want to see, do you mind if I skip out on shopping).  Amy would have probably been fine with it.  But that doesn't make good TV.  I think he was wrong, but there was no real bad intentions behind it.  I liked how Amy dealt with it.  No looks of suffering Amy, she dealt with it perfectly cause she knows how Sheldon thinks.  He saw himself unable to go shopping as a problem to be solved.  Amy wants someone to go shopping with.  I can no longer make it.  Therefore I will provide a substitute, and voila problem solved.  Of course life is not that way, lol.  But I like that he came to the realization himself, and took it upon himself to resolve it sincerely.  In that sense they've come a long way.

Amy going shopping.  I guess everyone goes shopping.  She just doesn't strike me as someone who would enjoy clothes shopping, considering she wears her grandmothers hand me downs.  Kind of wish they had picked a different "activity" for them to cancel.  It does read a little cliché to me.  Well I guess we don't know what they were shopping for.

I don't think there is anything wrong with missing parts of "Vintage Amy".  I wish they'd show her eccentricities more, because that was part of what made the character really interesting.  I don't mind her hanging with the girls, and doing things she's always wished to do.  I just wish she'd be in those situation with her oddball take on things.  I liked that she see's the world differently.  I like when she's painfully blunt.  She did that in the last episode (Viewing Party), although it was not the nicest to Leonard, it was at least a nod to Amy of the past.   This doesn't mean that she isn't allowed to have fun with the girls, and do the things she missed out on as a young woman, but I think there should be a distinct "Amy" spin on things.

 

[mirs1]

6 hours ago, nibbler747 said:

I thought I'd chime in on the shopping and Vintage vs. Modern Amy. 

As for fobbing off shopping commitments.  I think Sheldon was wrong.  He could have just called her and explained his situation (i.e. there is a movie I really want to see, do you mind if I skip out on shopping).  Amy would have probably been fine with it.  But that doesn't make good TV.  I think he was wrong, but there was no real bad intentions behind it.  I liked how Amy dealt with it.  No looks of suffering Amy, she dealt with it perfectly cause she knows how Sheldon thinks.  He saw himself unable to go shopping as a problem to be solved.  Amy wants someone to go shopping with.  I can no longer make it.  Therefore I will provide a substitute, and voila problem solved.  Of course life is not that way, lol.  But I like that he came to the realization himself, and took it upon himself to resolve it sincerely.  In that sense they've come a long way.

Amy going shopping.  I guess everyone goes shopping.  She just doesn't strike me as someone who would enjoy clothes shopping, considering she wears her grandmothers hand me downs.  Kind of wish they had picked a different "activity" for them to cancel.  It does read a little cliché to me.  Well I guess we don't know what they were shopping for.

I don't think there is anything wrong with missing parts of "Vintage Amy".  I wish they'd show her eccentricities more, because that was part of what made the character really interesting.  I don't mind her hanging with the girls, and doing things she's always wished to do.  I just wish she'd be in those situation with her oddball take on things.  I liked that she see's the world differently.  I like when she's painfully blunt.  She did that in the last episode (Viewing Party), although it was not the nicest to Leonard, it was at least a nod to Amy of the past.   This doesn't mean that she isn't allowed to have fun with the girls, and do the things she missed out on as a young woman, but I think there should be a distinct "Amy" spin on things.

 

I think the point of the episode was just that: there were at least a couple of "acceptable" and easy ways out for Sheldon (telling Amy he wanted to go to the movies rather than shopping or haring Stuart to hold his place in line for a while) but he chose the one that got him in trouble. 

As for the shopping part, the point is that the writers had to pick an activity that for sure Sheldon wouldn't have chosen upon the movie. If they were up for an aquarium date, or for a conference, then the point of the episode would have been Sheldon torn between two things he loved equally. People go shopping, even just for grocery, maybe that's the case. You know, I'm more bothered by the activity they chose for Sheldon (and the guys), TBH. Nothing wrong with  movies, but the  plot "The guys want to watch a film, how can they ditch the girls for that?" has been overdone this season  (3 times), maybe they could have picked for them another thing which needed a line...

[camelliayao]

Since this is not Shamy supportive...

People keep saying how much Sheldon has changed, like he was a total sweetheart to Bernie in 9x22. Yes, that's true. But then it comes 9x23...Why is he only nice to other people? But when it comes to Amy, the only way we know he has changed is "Now he apologizes after being pointed out that he was wrong." It's like the writers have this need to pick Shamy against each other. Even in episodes that are supposed to be Shamy sweetness, like 9x19, there will be scenes where Sheldon still makes you sigh.

Edited April 29, 2016 by camelliayao

[Tensor]

I know.  Welcome to the world of Lenny, it happens all the time and.........wait.....what?     Shamy?      Oh, never mind......sneaks off.

[wowbagger]

The thing is, you see, that the entirety of the shopping/outsourcing boyfriend duties to Stuart conflict is based on layer upon layer of contrivance.

a ) The big thing- the huge thing- is that there is no particular reason for Sheldon to not just let Amy know that he would like to watch a film, or even- just puttin' it out there, writers- invite her along to see it. I thought Amy liked Star Wars that one time? But sure, that was a throwaway line at the end of an episode so many long, crowded weeks ago. Why would I expect you to remember that, show? But, in any case, there is no reason at all for Sheldon to not simply Use His Damn Words, except that it cranks Stuart's role in the argument into place.

b ) There is no particular reason for Amy to go shopping and to drag a reluctant boyfriend with her unless it is to crank Amy's role in the argument into place. Again, for the love of God, my argument is not with Amy for liking shopping, and indeed, who knows what she wanted to buy? I like shopping! I love shopping! But you know what I also like in any activity? Knowing that my company- if I have any- is voluntarily, even enthusiastically, participating. Now, it's possible that Sheldon had declared himself enthusiastic, and then backed out at the last minute. In which case, see point (a). And furthermore, yes, I maintain that the narrative trope of 'girlfriend goes shopping, boyfriend holds her handbag and slowly dies of boredom' is such a fucking cliche. Unless- again- Sheldon had to be there because Amy was buying stuff for him and she needed to make sure it fit? Like my mother used to do with me? I know the show infantilises Sheldon, but- combined with the thought of him riding the children's choo-choo at the mall- I am hearing the Psycho theme song in my head. Please, no, writers.

Again, I like that Amy gets even instead of getting mad. But the whole thing just genuinely reads like something that could actually have happened somewhere around Season Six (when Amy had a fair few snits at Sheldon), except the writers didn't think of it then. And now that they have thought of it, they just really really really wanted to see it happen. Sigh. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by wowbagger

[tallin]

On 4/26/2016 at 5:21 AM, Carlos said:

1,000,000,000,000 likes to your post. To me, as long as in the discussion posters are being respectful to one another, there shouldn't be any problems. I really enjoyed our discussions, and even if we didn't agree most of the time, we could both at least see why the other person had a different opinion. Our interactions actually enriched my points of view. But as you say, to each their own. The one thing that puzzles me is how can anyone get mad at you and be so dismissive when you're one of the most civil, respectful and sweet posters here.

PS: I also posted more here but the quality of the show (IMO) has decreased severely.

 

 Thank you for your words, such a nice thing to read after crazy work week  While talking about our nice discussions, it's almost a shame we're now on the same "ship" writing wise, isn't it ? 

 

[Carlos]

21 minutes ago, tallin said:

 Thank you for your words, such a nice thing to read after crazy work week  While talking about our nice discussions, it's almost a shame we're now on the same "ship" writing wise, isn't it ? 

 

Yes it is, it truly is...

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 2:59 PM, A.D.A. said:

I just had to comment on that because I never understood that particular cliché. Unless you're already in a situation where you are together as a couple and don't really want to split (let's say, on a city trip holiday) and happen upon a store that only one person is interested in, why would anyone take someone to specifically shop at a place that that person will find boring? Compassion for the partner's nerves aside, I have yet to meet a human being who would rather shop with a bored, possibly whining partner who can't wait to get out of the store than alone or with an interested friend. Such a strange trope.

And too true about the Marvel movies. I would like to add to that, just liking GoT does not make you a nerd anymore - especially not if you deem your viewing party too cool for cosplay. Hell, I wouldn't consider me and my friends True Nerds, but even we were wearing sigil t-shirts last Monday (Lannisters represent!). Maybe the gang would have made fun of us, too, now that they are the cool kids.

I consider myself more of a Stark man  (including Jon Snow -  if he's alive-)

[wowbagger]

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

I consider myself more of a Stark man  (including Jon Snow -  if he's alive-)

Lannisters for me, but I confess I like House Bolton's words: 'Our blades are sharp'.

[camelliayao]

Sometimes I went to the Shamy thread and I was like "are we watching the same show?" (No intention of judging others, just simply amazed by how different people's opinions can be)

Amy didn't "make" him Ok? Because she said to Beverly "If he didn't want to go shopping with me, why didn't he just say so?" If she made him to go, she would know why Sheldon can't say no. Also since all those hurtful things Sheldon said can all be treated as "throwaway jokes", why don't we treated the "make me line" the same way?

And the timer thing, Sheldon didn't want to go too long in case he can't control himself around Amy? Seriously? The man doesn't feel the need to sleep with Amy again for another year! He suddenly can't control himself because his desire is too strong? This must be an AU, right?

[Stephen Hawking]

32 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

or are you saying it's not helium used in these balloons.

No, but helium causes the voice to be higher, whereas Leonard's gas caused their voices to be lower.

Here's an IMDb Trivia page, which explains it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372043/trivia

 

1 minute ago, JE7 said:

Helium raises the voice you talk like a munchkin

As shown in The Vengeance Formulation:-

 

[Tonstar17]

As shown in The Vengeance Formulation:-

 

Okay. Point taken. I learn new things everyday.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

[luminous]

A Sheldon clip in the Lenny thread???

The only way to show Sheldon in this thread is like that:

or like that

 

 

 

[veejay]

^^^   …another good one.

[mirs1]

The point is that, for stating anything about a phenomenon that involves so many people, you need data, i.e., you need a significative sample, which is numerous enough to represent the entire population you want to study, diversified by age, tastes, fans and casual viewers, etc. "Most people I hear" are by no means such a sample. 

[JohnPhD]

On July 21, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Kathy2611 said:

You can't possibly be serious!!  Here's the transcript from that very episode that blows a giant hole through your interpretation....

Amy:  I got you a little something.

Penny: A little something? Oh, it… what, this is huge.

Amy: What’s huge is what you’ve done for me.

Penny: Oh, no, Amy, I haven’t done anything.

Amy: No, no, before I met you, I was a mousy wallflower.  But look at me now.   I'm like some kind of downtown hipster party girl.  With a posse, a boyfriend and a new lace bra that hooks in the front, of all things. Open it. Open it.

Penny: Okay. (Opens parcel to find a huge and not at all flattering painting of Penny and Amy)

Amy: I wanted to get you something you didn’t have.

Penny: Wow. I-I don’t know what to s… Wow.

Amy CLEARLY credits Penny for her life the way it is now and she wanted to show her appreciation.  Where in the hell do you see where it's an act of aggression??!!

What Amy says is is slimy emotional blackmail to force Penny to have the hideous painting on her wall; and that imposing the horrible picture is an invasion of Penny's space; and that Amy wants the picture displayed in Penny's home entirely for her own gratification, and not at all for Penny's?

 

[Jonny]

I think saying emotional blackmail is pretty harsh as those comments to Penny were genuine, Penny and the rest of the gang have transformed Amy's life. It's actually quite common for someone to give a gift to a friend or someone they love that the recipient finds horrible but through fear of hurting their feelings they try to accept it.

This episode was a play on that whole scenario.