Debate Zone [Spoilers]Shipping Lanes: Season 9

[Stephen Hawking]

$3,000 dollars is an awful lot of money, just to disfigure a wall.

Yes, the painting was ugly, but, as Penny points out in a later episode, Amy has zero fashion sense, so Amy likely thinks it looks good.

The painting is, without doubt, hideous and massively OTT, but I don't think she gave it maliciously.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Stephen Hawking

[JohnPhD]

On July 23, 2016 at 0:20 PM, Kathy2611 said:

All of what you said is true but what's also true is the way Amy feels about Penny.  Or at least during the early years.  Maybe not as much now.  But definately back then, she literally worshipped the ground Penny walked on. 

From The Skank Reflex

 

Penny:  I know, right? Maybe I should just move back to Nebraska.

Amy: No, I can’t let you do that.

Penny: Why not? (There is a knock on the door)

Amy: For the first time ever, I have a thriving social life. And no pressure, but it kind of lives and dies with you.

Amy credits Penny for how much better her life is now.  

 

Also, 

From The Infestation

Penny: My God, Amy, that’s really crappy of you.

Amy: It is?  (She clearly doesn't understand what she did wrong until Penny explains it to her....)

Penny: Yeah! Letting Sheldon use you to manipulate me? I thought you were my friend.

Amy: No, I am your friend. Please don’t be mad at me.

 

 

 

 

This illustrates rather well how Amy is a horrible person, and Penny is "better" than Amy. They mean different things by "friend". Penny not only appreciates her friends for what they bring to her life, but genuinely cares about them and wants them to be happy, and if they are unhappy is moved to do something about it - sometimes inappropriately, of course, as when she bullied poor Lucy for dumping Raj. Sheldon early on described Penny as a "good-hearted simpleton". Perhaps I'm too inclined to pat Sheldon on the back when he says something that isn't completely idiotic, but he was at least half right. Penny, of course, is very far from a simpleton, although often naive about people she thinks are her friends, but she is good-hearted to a fault.

Amy, in contrast, has an infantile and selfish idea of "friend". To her friends are a sort of possessions, that exist to make her life better. She strongly appreciates what having Penny as her friend has done for her, but she doesn't care about Penny as a person, and perhaps has no conception that Penny really has needs and feelings. Whenever Penny is hurt o unhappy, Amy sees it as an opportunity to make her own position as Penny's "friend" more secure.

 

[Kathy2611]

8 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

This illustrates rather well how Amy is a horrible person, and Penny is "better" than Amy. They mean different things by "friend". Penny not only appreciates her friends for what they bring to her life, but genuinely cares about them and wants them to be happy, and if they are unhappy is moved to do something about it - sometimes inappropriately, of course, as when she bullied poor Lucy for dumping Raj. Sheldon early on described Penny as a "good-hearted simpleton". Perhaps I'm too inclined to pat Sheldon on the back when he says something that isn't completely idiotic, but he was at least half right. Penny, of course, is very far from a simpleton, although often naive about people she thinks are her friends, but she is good-hearted to a fault.

Amy, in contrast, has an infantile and selfish idea of "friend". To her friends are a sort of possessions, that exist to make her life better. She strongly appreciates what having Penny as her friend has done for her, but she doesn't care about Penny as a person, and perhaps has no conception that Penny really has needs and feelings. Whenever Penny is hurt o unhappy, Amy sees it as an opportunity to make her own position as Penny's "friend" more secure.

I have no doubt that most of those who are disposed to understand this already do without my help, and most of those who don't understand it are determined not to, but I thought the quoted scene was a rather good illustration of this point.

No this doesn't illustrate how Amy is a "horrible" person and Penny is "better."  

This is a comedy show.  NONE of the 7 characters are mean, malicious, evil, file, selfish (except a tiny bit at times), nasty.   So I'm done discussing it with you.  I'm going to stop before I say something that will get me in trouble.

[JohnPhD]

8 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

$3,000 dollars is an awful lot of money, just to disfigure a wall.

Yes, the painting was ugly, but, as Penny points out in a later episode, Amy has zero fashion sense, so Amy likely thinks it looks good.

The painting is, without doubt, hideous and massively OTT, but I don't think she gave it maliciously.

I didn't mean she gave it maliciously, but selfishly. No doubt A thinks it looks good, but my interpretation is that she's "staking a claim" in Penny's home.

[Jonny]

You are entitled to your opinion John and I respect that even though I just don't see this evil perception of Amy that you believe exists. I would agree at times all the characters on the show have shown they can be nasty, selfish or mean but I don't think your example is one of them. On the whole I think they are all good people, but nobody is a saint.

Amy was blind to the painting being hideous because she loves Penny as a friend, the painting was a gift nothing more.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Jonny83

[Kathy2611]

2 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

 

I'm not surprised that a hard-core Amyac isn't capable of rational or civil discussion. Illustrates my last sentence above.

That's just it.  I'm not an "Amyac."  Or even one of the "Amy can do no wrong" fans.  There have been times I've wanted to reach through my TV screen and slap her.  More than once.  She's actually not my favorite character on the show.  

I just see the show being played out how the writers want us to see it.  And it's impossible to have a rational and civil discussion with someone who hates a character so much that their view of them is distorted.  

[JohnPhD]

On 21/07/2016 at 4:47 AM, Tensor said:

 

There is no data for this, skull's statement is just flat out wrong.    TBBT suffered a drop in season four (after her introduction in the tag), mostly due to it's move to Thursday, a night CBS, traditionally did not have sit-coms.  American Idol was still bigger than anything else at the time, which cut into viewership.  Since season four, every season has had more viewers than season three.  I have no idea where skull get's this claim.  

Tensor, am I right in assuming that there is no data that can measure audience turnover - old viewers dropping out and new one's joining? Only the net change is published, right? So the hypothesis that introducing Amy put off a lot of the original fans but brought in a larger number of new ones of a different kind is plausible but untestable?