[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[Lionne]

he dosent have to "get away" with anything he has an opinion same as you and he expressed are it same as you. 

I do think IMO that you did an excellent job of proving his point, you just did everything he had pointed out.in his original post

Really? That's just random Lenny bashing to you for the sake of Lenny bashing? Because it's a lot more complicated and nuanced than that to me. Pointing out a ship's flaws is not the same as bashing. Oh, and by the way, discussing and pointing out your own ship's flaws at the same time is not trying to put one ship up as superior to the other either.

It is absolutely ridiculous to me that some people are grievously fragile and vain enough to believe that being disagreed with is akin to being persecuted.

Or as good ole Ralph once said a million times better than I did:

I have noticed that people on forums do this ALL. THE. DAMN. TIME. Flail their arms all, "Oh, you disagreed with me, I am wounded! You horrible bitch! How dare you! I'm so picked on and maltreated!" No, you're not - it's an honest debate and exchange of opinions, and it is nothing, NOTHING like actually being bullied, harassed, persecuted or crucified, and the self-pity about it is obnoxiously self-indulgent.

And I am honestly not surprised that it's being defended here on this forum, because I see it all the time. And it's ridiculous, and I'm tired of watching it go on unchallenged. Many might disagree with me, and many might accuse me of being a bully or that popular mean girl from your middle school nightmares - I've heard it before and I'll hear it again. Still doesn't make it true.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Lionne

[nickelette424]

he dosent have to "get away" with anything he has an opinion same as you and he expressed are it same as you. 

I do think IMO that you did an excellent job of proving his point, you just did everything he had pointed out.in his original post

Proving what point?  Just because she doesn't think that Lenny is the best couple on the planet and believes that they still have issues they need to resolve, doesn't mean she is bashing them.   That is her taking an honest inventory of what she sees in their relationship,  none of it means she hates the ship.   And as someone who was in chat for all of this last night, it went down exactly as Lio said.   Katz brought up the Lenny comparison and started the whole thing by basically telling us over and over again for a couple hours that we were shipping or ship wrong.   

[JE7]

I do think that SOME members have forgotten that this is just a sitcom, these people are not real and whatever the creators say it is well that's what it is weather we like it or not and it most definitely not worth this level of anger and anxiety IN MY OPINION

[Mislav]

As one of the Shamy shippers you were debating last night, and the one who took issue with your statement that Sheldon and Amy were going through the same Leonard and Penny playbook actions, and that clearly this break up was going to make Sheldon and Amy a stronger couple in the end, I'll repeat the same thing here I said then: in what universe are Leonard and Penny that strong of a couple? Their wedding night ended up in shambles a whole whopping one episode ago because they were fighting over his cheating revelation. Leonard just figured out this past episode that yes, some of his deep-seated issues just might be causing him to sabatogue his marriage - and that explanation really only works if you are only concerned about the idea that she told Penny the truth as a self-destructive act and not as a noble one, and just sort of blow by the cheating all together. It puzzles me that somehow this issue boiled down to: I might be deliberately blowing this by admitting to cheating because you're so beautiful I don't think I'm worthy of you rather than addressing a bigger problem, which is that he cheated. Mandy scoffed at it all, and asked, "Why did you tell her?" like that was a stupid part. It did not take a look at: why did you cheat but why are you so stupid to tell her you cheated? 

I said in the actual episode thread that I find this whole idea that Penny and Leonard's problems boil down to him worrying she's too hot for him while she worries he's too smart for her, when there are really some much bigger issues in the relationship, such as the fact that they still have nothing in common, and bicker all the time. Leonard still fixates on Penny's physical beauty, which will not last forever, and never mentions all of her other great qualities. Penny still makes cracks that indicate that she thinks she's too good for Leonard, while at the same time worrying that she's not good enough. Issues that came up last season have not really been resolved, and are plot lines that went nowhere, such as....did Penny audition for that Kevin Smith movie or not? Has Leonard really become okay with the fact that Penny makes more money than he does now? I realize that they ran away and eloped, but are any of their problems settled, such as the way he freaks out if she even thinks about going back to acting, or how she makes unilateral decisions about her career and finances without even mentioning them to him? Are they going to reach a place where Leonard cannot come in and say something cute and sweet that makes Penny say "aw," so they skip off and solve their problems - temporarily - in the bedroom?

I actually love Leonard and Penny too, and as I also said in the episode thread, I think that Penny coming over to talk and the two of them sitting down to discuss their issues for awhile, honestly, admitting their insecurities before hopping off to the bedroom was...progress? But as the IGN TBBT recapper noted, this settlement of their issues rang hollow, Penny and Leonard have a lot of issues, issues they did not resolve before getting married - in fact, while getting married, more issues came up!

I agreed with you that the progress that the two of them made during season 6 when they started the season with Penny almost breaking up with him to the two of them going through a lot and becoming a stronger couple was great development - during that season. However, when the writers changed their determination to write Leonard and Penny developing into a better couple, things have gone downhill for them again.

But things with Penny and Leonard have shifted forward, back, sideways, and it's still been bumpy since then and their wedding was a disaster. You spent a lot of time in chat last night, fiercely trying to argue that all of us Shamy fans needed to lap up what the writers were dishing out because the pay off was going to be a stronger Shamy. We tried to argue back, just as fiercely, that a lot of these horrible cliches being written into the Shamy dynamic right now are really ruining our enjoyment of what used to be one of the most quirky, oddball relationships on TV, the one that we fell in love with. We fell in love with this couple playing counterfactuals and Fun with Flags and ballroom dancing and doing social science experiments on their friends - they were weird and had amazing communication, honesty, and attachment to each other. Right now they are being forced to play every single romance breakup cliche in the book, and while Sheldon is IC (because he's the important one), the character of Amy has been reduced to less than a character, she's just a temper tantrum throwing prop and plot device whose decisions and actions (annoyingly teenage drama actions) are making Sheldon run through all of these hoops and stages of grief and loss and suffering.

You asked us if we really would stop watching a TV show just because a couple broke up or went off track. I listed tons of shows I stopped watching because I thought the writing took a horrible, unwatchable turn. You said that we had to put ourselves in the writers shoes to see what they were doing with this genius storyline that would make Shamy BETTER, when to us all it's doing is making them far worse, Amy completely OOC, and none of this fun. You said that we should enjoy drama when we said that we tune into the show for the humor, and like our ship to be sweet, light, honest, funny and unique - not this cliche drivel they are trying to shove down our throats. You said that this would make Shamy better, like Lenny's break up did, and we argued that we don't want to see the same playbook used for Shamy as Lenny, as they are a totally different couple AND, by the way, Lenny as a couple are not that great or magnificent anyway! I'm sorry you took that as bashing, but you're the one who brought Lenny into the whole conversation as comparison in the first place. You basically told us that Shamy would get through this and be as great as Lenny - and for us, Lenny is really, really far from perfect. And they are definitely nothing like what we want Sheldon and Amy to be.

Last of all, you were arguing your own side just as fiercely and with just as much passion as anyone else in that chat room. Now you're coming here to sulk, pout, and accuse us of being Lenny haters and that this argument was about some sort of ship war. It was nothing of the sort. You repeatedly, strongly, and unwaveringly kept telling us how we were supposed to see and feel about our own ship, way past the point many of us asked you to please stop telling us how to feel and think and respect that we had our own opinions and perspective. Now you're giving a heavily warped version of your side of the story to bitch and get sympathy, and I'm sorry, but your version of events or how that conversation went down are barely skating inside the truth of what happened, and I have no f*cking idea how you think you're going to get away with that when the people who were on the other side of this story happen to be right here on this same forum as you.

 Agreed completely. Especially about Amy.

(Except for the kissing part. Leonard should have told Penny about that, only not two years later. And I think that Leonard shows that he cares about Penny and sees more than her looks often, only it can get hard to see due to all the jokes that writers are trying to make along the way. They try too hard to be funny.)

 

i understand you take this very seriously, to the point that I would remind you that this is aatv sitcom and these people ARE NOT REAL

So what if they aren't a real people? Who said that they were?

They have changed Shamy into something it never was. It is not enjoyable anymore and it isn't FUNNY anymore-and yes, this is a SITCOM! Rarely even in real life do such things happen. We should just enjoy every aspect of the show because none of that is real by that logic? And you accuse Lionne of taking things too seriously when previously you commented that Sheldon treats Amy like shit and whatnot.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Mislav

[nickelette424]

I do think that SOME members have forgotten that this is just a sitcom, these people are not real and whatever the creators say it is well that's what it is weather we like it or not and it most definitely not worth this level of anger and anxiety IN MY OPINION

People get emotionally  invested in things they enjoy.   We have opinions on it and whether or not we have any say in the matter doesn't mean we can't express or dislikes, passionately or not.   People should be able to react to things however they feel without someone trying to invalidate them.   But I think in this instance,  more than anything, the anger is coming from such a misrepresentation of what happened.   It's pretty much an out and out lie.

[veejay]

Edited May 12, 2016 by veejay

[JE7]

People get emotionally  invested in things they enjoy.   We have opinions on it and whether or not we have any say in the matter doesn't mean we can't express or dislikes, passionately or not.   People should be able to react to things however they feel without someone trying to invalidate them.   But I think in this instance,  more than anything, the anger is coming from such a misrepresentation of what happened.   It's pretty much an out and out lie.

i was not in chat for very long last night and have no first hand knowledge of what he speaks so since I have talked with you before and have no reason to doubt you I will take your word on that as truth.

I do think that some are taking this to unhealthy levels of stress I wont argue the ship thing but I do find the LEVEL of the reaction troubling to say the least not the reaction itself just the level of anger and outrage it has reached... Stress kills

Edited October 1, 2015 by JE7

[nickelette424]

i was not in chat for very long last night and have no first hand knowledge of what he speaks so since I have btalked with you before and have no reason to doubt you I will take your word on that as truth.

I do think that some aretaking this to unhealthy levels of stress I wont argue the ship thing but I do find the LEVEL of the reaction troubling to say the least not the reaction itself just the level of anger and outrage it has reached... Stress kills

Or,  it could be that we release all our worries and concerns here to get it off or chest,  and then move along with our day in the real world.   The more you address what is on your mind and release it,  the less weight you carry. Think therapeutic. 

[Mislav]

i was not in chat for very long last night and have no first hand knowledge of what he speaks so since I have btalked with you before and have no reason to doubt you I will take your word on that as truth.

I do think that some aretaking this to unhealthy levels of stress I wont argue the ship thing but I do find the LEVEL of the reaction troubling to say the least not the reaction itself just the level of anger and outrage it has reached... Stress kills

So, you are worried about our health now?

Bringing up valid arguments leads to a heart attack or something?

So much straw grasping. 

[JE7]

your hate filled shit all over this thread.

I have had posts hidden two times on this forum both "conversation" with you. You won't change nor will I so talking to you is simply no longer worth the effort for me

I hope your ship works out to your liking, you and I will speak no more

Peace out Misav

Or,  it could be that we release all our worries and concerns here to get it off or chest,  and then move along with our day in the real world.   The more you address what is on your mind and release it,  the less weight you carry. Think therapeutic. 

I noticed personally my reactions to certain parts of the first 2 episode caused actual anger in me, that got me thinking about the leval of my own "obsession" for lack of a better word and made me notice I am not the only one.... It gave me pause and has me thinking about it in general

Edited October 1, 2015 by JE7

[pisquenta]

As one of the Shamy shippers you were debating last night, and the one of the people who took issue with your statement that Sheldon and Amy were going through the same Leonard and Penny playbook actions, and that clearly this break up was going to make Sheldon and Amy a stronger couple in the end, I'll repeat the same thing here I said then: in what universe are Leonard and Penny that strong of a couple? Why would we want Shamy to be like them? Their wedding night ended up in shambles a whole whopping one episode ago because they were fighting over his cheating revelation. Leonard just figured out this past episode that yes, some of his deep-seated issues just might be causing him to sabotage his marriage - and that explanation really only sates ones concerns if you are only looking about the idea that he told Penny the truth as a self-destructive act and not as a noble one, and just sort of blow by the cheating all together. It puzzles me that somehow this issue boiled down to: "I might be deliberately blowing this by admitting to cheating because you're so beautiful I don't think I'm worthy of you" rather than addressing a bigger problem, which is that he cheated. Mandy scoffed at it all, and asked, "Why did you tell her?" like that was a stupid part. It did not take a look at: "why did you cheat" but "why are you so stupid to tell her you cheated?" 

I said in the actual episode thread that I find this whole idea that Penny and Leonard's problems boil down to him worrying she's too hot for him while she worries he's too smart for her, when there are really some much bigger issues in the relationship, such as the fact that they still have nothing in common, and bicker all the time. Leonard still fixates on Penny's physical beauty, which will not last forever, and never mentions all of her other great qualities. Penny still makes cracks that indicate that she thinks she's too good for Leonard, while at the same time worrying that she's not good enough. Issues that came up last season have not really been resolved, and are plot lines that went nowhere, such as....did Penny audition for that Kevin Smith movie or not? Has Leonard really become okay with the fact that Penny makes more money than he does now? I realize that they ran away and eloped, but are any of their problems settled because they're married now? Such as the way he freaks out if she even thinks about going back to acting, or how she makes unilateral decisions about her career and finances without even mentioning them to him? Are they going to reach a place where Leonard cannot come in and say something cute and sweet that makes Penny say "aw," so they skip off and solve their problems - temporarily - in the bedroom?

I actually love Leonard and Penny too, and as I also said in the episode thread, I think that Penny coming over to talk and the two of them sitting down to discuss their issues for awhile, honestly, admitting their insecurities before hopping off to the bedroom was...progress? But as the IGN TBBT recapper noted, this settlement of their issues rang hollow; Penny and Leonard have a lot of issues, issues they did not resolve before getting married - in fact, while getting married, more issues came up!

I agreed with you that the progress that the two of them made during season 6 when they started the season with Penny almost breaking up with him to the two of them going through a lot and becoming a stronger couple was great development - during that season. However, when the writers changed their determination to write Leonard and Penny developing into a better couple, things have gone downhill for them again.

Things with Penny and Leonard have shifted forward, back, sideways, and it's still been bumpy since then and their wedding was a disaster. You spent a lot of time in chat last night fiercely trying to argue that all of us Shamy fans needed to lap up what the writers were dishing out because the pay off was going to be a stronger Shamy. We tried to argue back, just as fiercely, that a lot of these horrible cliches being written into the Shamy dynamic right now are really ruining our enjoyment of what used to be one of the most quirky, funny, oddball relationships on TV, the one that we fell in love with. We fell in love with this couple playing counterfactuals and Fun with Flags and ballroom dancing and doing social science experiments on their friends - they were weird and had amazing communication, honesty, and attachment to each other. Right now they are being forced to play every single romance breakup cliche in the book, and while Sheldon is IC (because he's the important one), the character of Amy has been reduced to less than a character, she's just a temper tantrum throwing prop and plot device whose decisions and actions (annoyingly teenage drama actions) are making Sheldon run through all of these hoops and stages of grief and loss and suffering.

You asked us if we really would stop watching a TV show just because a couple broke up or went off track. I listed tons of shows I stopped watching because I thought the writing took a horrible, unwatchable turn. You said that we had to put ourselves in the writers shoes to see what they were doing with this genius storyline that would make Shamy BETTER, when to us all it's doing is making them far worse, Amy completely OOC, and none of this fun. I like watching a funny sitcom with a great ensemble cast and some light romantic stoyrlines in it, not a melodrama. These big, dark, dramatic plot lines for both Lenny and Shamy have relegated Raj, Howard and Bernadette to irrelevance - there's barely any room for them to get in a few lines, much less have an actual plot.

You said that we should enjoy drama when we said that we tune into the show for the humor, and like our ship to be sweet, light, honest, funny and unique - not this cliche drivel they are trying to shove down our throats. You said that this would make Shamy better, like Lenny's break up did, and we argued that we don't want to see the same playbook used for Shamy as Lenny, as they are a totally different couple AND, by the way, Lenny as a couple are not that great or magnificent anyway! I'm sorry you took that as bashing, but you're the one who brought Lenny into the whole conversation as comparison in the first place. You basically told us that Shamy would get through this and be as great as Lenny - and for us, Lenny is really, really far from perfect. And they are definitely nothing like what we want Sheldon and Amy to be.

Last of all, you were arguing your own side just as fiercely and with just as much passion as anyone else in that chat room. Now you're coming here to sulk, pout, and accuse us of being Lenny haters and that this argument was about some sort of ship war. It was nothing of the sort. You repeatedly, strongly, and unwaveringly kept telling us how we were supposed to see and feel about our own ship, way past the point many of us asked you to please stop telling us how to feel and think and respect that we had our own opinions and perspective. Now you're giving a heavily warped version of your side of the story to bitch and get sympathy, and I'm sorry, but your version of events or how that conversation went down are barely skating inside the truth of what happened, and I have no f*cking idea how you think you're going to get away with that when the people who were on the other side of this story happen to be right here on this same forum as you.

 

 

I'm sorry, I just had to.

 

And just to keep it in topic anyone guessed what the episode title was?

Edited October 1, 2015 by pisquenta

[nusspot]

Just to add a new info to the speculations about 9.07: Kripke is back. Last time he was busy teaching the guys fencing and hitting on Amy. Now must be something work-related (I guess).

[brilliantfool]

Or because Lenny shippers (not everyone) feel a need to preach Shamy shippers about Shamy break up being deserved, bashing Sheldon due to their frustration over a lack of Lenny the last season, and are acting disrespectfully whenever somebody refutes their argument.

are you sure that's the reason they're "bashing" Sheldon? maybe it's cause since Shamy is not their ship, they can see them clearer, not through the rose colored glasses like shippers sometimes do? I'm shamy (obviously), and i know cause i love this ship so much and want them to be together, that i often ignore a lot of chauvinistic shit Sheldon says and does. 
But people who are not shippers don't have to do that, and they are just honest about what they observe and think. 

[legacy99]

are you sure that's the reason they're "bashing" Sheldon? maybe it's cause since Shamy is not their ship, they can see them clearer, not through the rose colored glasses like shippers sometimes do? I'm shamy (obviously), and i know cause i love this ship so much and want them to be together, that i often ignore a lot of chauvinistic shit Sheldon says and does. 
But people who are not shippers don't have to do that, and they are just honest about what they observe and think. 

I think that was one of the most reasonable post I seen in a long time I definitely agree with you unfortunately I was being over the earlier and I would like to apologize to you Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

[jenafan]

I do think that SOME members have forgotten that this is just a sitcom, these people are not real and whatever the creators say it is well that's what it is weather we like it or not and it most definitely not worth this level of anger and anxiety IN MY OPINION

You are right, I have gotten extremely worked up over a television show.   I know that I have spent many sleepless nights in frustration trying to rework scenarios in my fan fiction to come up with an explanation for things I don't like the direction that has been taken by the writers.  I have no problem admitting to my addiction.

The fact is we watch television, read books, take in movies as a means to escape the reality of the day-to-day humdrum of life.   Fiction gives us the ability to enjoy things that would normally not be possible.  We become vested in and care about the characters and want to see them grow, develop, and find happiness.   Otherwise, why bother tuning in week to week?   Perhaps a casual viewer can skip a few episodes and pick up here and there just to enjoy the comedy outside of the relationships, but I am not one of them.

If the writers did not want us to care about the relationships, then they never would have introduced Bernie and Amy.   They could have just left it with the original five and had the same stories rehashed over and over gain.   No, they chose to give us a reason to want to turn on the television every week to see how Sheldon, a man with no inclination toward romance, is going to react to being kissed for the first time, seeing Amy going out on a date with Stuart, fall in love, etc.   Sheldon has come to understand that life offers more than day-to-day facts and equations.   It turns out he is no exception to the human weaknesses that befall us all when unwittingly struck by cupid's arrow.

We grew to trust Amy to be Sheldon's perfect companion, she was patient for so long, then right when Sheldon is at the brink of giving her what she has wanted, she bails with no explanation or hint that she is even broken up about the split.   Yes, we get that Sheldon has been a jerk and hasn't been the best boyfriend, but she spent so many years defending him to everyone and now suddenly she's over it.    They've turned Amy, who is normally patient and forgiving,  into a cause for Sheldon's suffering because it seems she just doesn't care anymore and perhaps didn't love him as much as she thought she did.  Not fun to watch at all.

I can totally relate to Sheldon in his feelings regarding his break up with Amy.  

The writers have managed to take a science-geeky show that I would normally care less about, and made it interesting by drawing my interest to this broken character who no one in reality would ever tolerate.  

Then they take this character and give him a love interest, and we watch him slowly expose his humanity as a result of this woman.   I became hooked waiting to see where the relationship was headed, that even a man like Sheldon can find a woman to love and cherish him, and although he will never be perfect, he can get better.

Then boom, the writers said "Psyche," not going to happen and dashed my hopes for Sheldon and Amy ever finding happiness by turning Amy into something other than what we know her to be, someone who talks things out with Sheldon to help him understand.

Yes, I'm taking it too hard.   I've given my time and energy tuning into this show because of what the writers brought to the table with Shamy's uniqueness, and now I feel betrayed that they are turning what was extremely beautiful and hopeful into something ugly and unrecognizable.

I think I'm entitled to some anger and anxiety.

Edited October 1, 2015 by jenafan

[djsurrey]

You are right, I have gotten extremely worked up over a television show.   I know that I have spent many sleepless nights in frustration trying to rework scenarios in my fan fiction ... [snip]

Then boom, the writers said "Psyche," not going to happen and dashed my hopes for Sheldon and Amy ever finding happiness by turning Amy into something other than what we know her to be, someone who talks things out with Sheldon to help him understand.

Yes, I'm taking it too hard.   I've given my time and energy tuning into this show because of what the writers brought to the table with Shamy's uniqueness, and now I feel betrayed that they are turning what was extremely beautiful and hopeful into something ugly and unrecognizable.

I think I'm entitled to some anger and anxiety.

While I can understand what you are saying I think S/A will be resolved and bunches on here will be on an emotional high eventually (almost insufferable for days perhaps).

ep2 was funny and it was not just more of the same of season 8. I think they are keeping it interesting for the average viewer.

I doubt fan fiction is one of the considerations the writers put much weight on when planning the next few episodes.

[jenafan]

I doubt fan fiction is one of the considerations the writers put much weight on when planning the next few episodes.

I understand that the writer's are not allowed to read FF.   If they did, they'd understand what most fans of the show want.   IMO, some write better storylines.

Anyway, the purpose of the FF is to put to paper what I want to see and hopefully for the enjoyment of other readers, not to influence the writers in any way.

Edited October 1, 2015 by jenafan

[brilliantfool]

I do think that SOME members have forgotten that this is just a sitcom, these people are not real and whatever the creators say it is well that's what it is weather we like it or not and it most definitely not worth this level of anger and anxiety IN MY OPINION

pretty much agree with you but just wanted to add that i wouldn't say whatever angsty emotions this brings us is bad. I mean, we may be angry and anxious, but it doesn't mean all of us hate it, if this makes sense?

Like i know for me i always need to be high on emotions/frankly on drama sometimes, but i don't often wanna have it in real life so that's what shipping and obsessions (i mean it in a good way haha ) are for. I mean i know that's not the reason behind everybody's shipping, but that's the reason behind many people's shipping. You want your real life to be peaceful but you also wanna channel your intense emotions somewhere and ships are perfect for it. 

So while ive been pretty anxious for Shamy lately, i don't really mind it, it's mostly like good anxious. But yea i can see how some people might be taking it too far and get likely overly anxious/frustrated about it, like people attacking the creators of the show on twitter etc, i just don't understand it!

[Nogravitasatall]

.

So while ive been pretty anxious for Shamy lately, i don't really mind it, it's mostly like good anxious. But yea i can see how some people might be taking it too far and get likely overly anxious/frustrated about it, like people attacking the creators of the show on twitter etc, i just don't understand it!

Stretching a metaphor, but the zealousness is there. Shoe/show/ship... whatever.

S

Edited October 1, 2015 by Nogravitasatall
People being people, really.

[veejay]

Always YEAH for BRIAN!

[5Mississippis]

You are right, I have gotten extremely worked up over a television show.   I know that I have spent many sleepless nights in frustration trying to rework scenarios in my fan fiction to come up with an explanation for things I don't like the direction that has been taken by the writers.  I have no problem admitting to my addiction.

The fact is we watch television, read books, take in movies as a means to escape the reality of the day-to-day humdrum of life.   Fiction gives us the ability to enjoy things that would normally not be possible.  We become vested in and care about the characters and want to see them grow, develop, and find happiness.   Otherwise, why bother tuning in week to week?   Perhaps a casual viewer can skip a few episodes and pick up here and there just to enjoy the comedy outside of the relationships, but I am not one of them.

If the writers did not want us to care about the relationships, then they never would have introduced Bernie and Amy.   They could have just left it with the original five and had the same stories rehashed over and over gain.   No, they chose to give us a reason to want to turn on the television every week to see how Sheldon, a man with no inclination toward romance, is going to react to being kissed for the first time, seeing Amy going out on a date with Stuart, fall in love, etc.   Sheldon has come to understand that life offers more than day-to-day facts and equations.   It turns out he is no exception to the human weaknesses that befall us all when unwittingly struck by cupid's arrow.

We grew to trust Amy to be Sheldon's perfect companion, she was patient for so long, then right when Sheldon is at the brink of giving her what she has wanted, she bails with no explanation or hint that she is even broken up about the split.   Yes, we get that Sheldon has been a jerk and hasn't been the best boyfriend, but she spent so many years defending him to everyone and now suddenly she's over it.    They've turned Amy, who is normally patient and forgiving,  into a cause for Sheldon's suffering because it seems she just doesn't care anymore and perhaps didn't love him as much as she thought she did.  Not fun to watch at all.

I can totally relate to Sheldon in his feelings regarding his break up with Amy.  

The writers have managed to take a science-geeky show that I would normally care less about, and made it interesting by drawing my interest to this broken character who no one in reality would ever tolerate.  

Then they take this character and give him a love interest, and we watch him slowly expose his humanity as a result of this woman.   I became hooked waiting to see where the relationship was headed, that even a man like Sheldon can find a woman to love and cherish him, and although he will never be perfect, he can get better.

Then boom, the writers said "Psyche," not going to happen and dashed my hopes for Sheldon and Amy ever finding happiness by turning Amy into something other than what we know her to be, someone who talks things out with Sheldon to help him understand.

Yes, I'm taking it too hard.   I've given my time and energy tuning into this show because of what the writers brought to the table with Shamy's uniqueness, and now I feel betrayed that they are turning what was extremely beautiful and hopeful into something ugly and unrecognizable.

I think I'm entitled to some anger and anxiety.

OK --

Poking my nose in here where it really doesn't belong for several reasons: I am a Lenny first, foremost, and will be always and I pretty much DGAF about Shamy. I  adore Amy but am no fan of Sheldon.  But for some reason, especially the bolded part, I think I may have something I can offer regarding Amy. But please, you see that I am openly and honestly giving you my TBBT 'credentials' and POV, so feel free to 'grain of salt' anything I say. 

In 9.02, when the girls were in Penny's apartment trying to help and support her about what happened with Leonard, we are given the following conversation.

Penny: You know, he never would have this when I first met him. He's cockier.

Amy: That's because you made him confident.

Bernadette: You know, if you think about it, without you, he never would have grown into the person he is now. I mean, sure, more women might notice him, but I think it's better to have a guy be with you because he wants to be and not because he thinks he doesn't have any other choice. 

I think this is very revealing. The conversation is about Leonard but it can apply just as easily and equally to Amy. The part of Bernadette's comment in italics, I really have a hard time applying that to Leonard. It's a bit jarring to me because I don't see where it makes that much sense. It's not like women are lining up to be with Leonard so he's just choosing Penny, and Leonard truly believes that he is very lucky to be with her.  That has thrown me and I don't see where or how that fits to Leonard. But, it can apply to Amy. 

Amy has changed and I think, for the better.

We have always known that, unlike Sheldon, Amy has not bottled them up and has sexual urges. She masturbates, has had that quasi-lesbianism suggestive nature towards Penny, and has 'hoo'-ed Zach. And she is well versed in primate behavior. And for better or worse, she has been studying the behaviors of the couples around her. Now comparing the Lenny and Shamy coupledom is like comparing apples and oranges. Lenny is the emotional side, wisely or unwisely, following the urges and needs of the heart whereas Shamy are the more logical, considered pair, using their brains to guide them. 

BUT --

Regarding Amy, I saw that pretty much change in 8.03, First Pitch.

When the Lenny and Shamy are on the double date and Sheldon, based on the result of quiz, maintained he and Amy have the superior relationship. For me, this was the salient part of that whole scene and where I first noticed the change in Amy moving from a logic-based relationship to the need for more emotional support and tenderness.

Leonard: Marriage is scary. You're scared, I'm scared. But it doesn't make me not want to do it. It just makes me want to hold your hand and do it with you.

Penny: Awww! Leonard! 

Amy: It would make me so happy if you said things like that. (And I just want to add here that Mayim acted this line beautifully! She said the line very softly while staring at Leonard and Penny as they held hands and kissed, her eyes were wide, doe-eyed and wanting. Incredibly done!)

Sheldon: We got an eight-point-two. Trust me, you're happy.

At that moment, I thought, 'Uh-oh. Wake up, Sheldon. It's changed. She's not. Amy needs more from you now.'

Before the start of Season 9, CBS put up a video where all the cast are talking about what happened in the Season 8 finale and what it means for Season 9. Mayim was speaking to the fact about how the writers have not really given the reasons why for Amy to end the relationship. It is frustrating because it remains unexplained and it looks like they broke up over a thought bubble (credit: Nograv). Now, I'm only guessing here because the writers haven't told us, but I really think Amy has changed and needs more from Sheldon. He hasn't been the best boyfriend, his pet names for Amy of 'Gollum and Flaky' as well as his very nasty 'Czech Republic southern border' comment comes to mind. She has been incredibly patient. But perhaps, and again, I'm just guessing, maybe she has finally realized that she needs more and better from Sheldon and she doesn't have to settle. There are other men out there who can love her too without all the self-centeredness and the unkind comments.

This swings back to Bernadette's comments which I bolded and italicized: it's better to have a guy be with you because (s)he wants to be and not because (s)he thinks (s)he doesn't have any other choice. 

Amy just has to come to that decision and she will. They will get back together and it will be lovely with Amy and Sheldon BOTH learning and changing. 

And yes. You are completely entitled to your anger and anxiety. This is coming from a Lenny who lived through that god-awful Season 8 and that horrible fucking wedding and who also spent the summer 'weaning' herself from TBBT just in case Season 9 is as Lenny negligent as Season 8. 

But, it will get better.  Shamy will be made whole. 

 

 

 

 

[jenafan]

OK --

Poking my nose in here where it really doesn't belong for several reasons: I am a Lenny first, foremost, and will be always and I pretty much DGAF about Shamy. I  adore Amy but am no fan of Sheldon.  But for some reason, especially the bolded part, I think I may have something I can offer regarding Amy. But please, you see that I am openly and honestly giving you my TBBT 'credentials' and POV, so feel free to 'grain of salt' anything I say. 

In 9.02, when the girls were in Penny's apartment trying to help and support her about what happened with Leonard, we are given the following conversation.

Penny: You know, he never would have this when I first met him. He's cockier.

Amy: That's because you made him confident.

Bernadette: You know, if you think about it, without you, he never would have grown into the person he is now. I mean, sure, more women might notice him, but I think it's better to have a guy be with you because he wants to be and not because he thinks he doesn't have any other choice. 

I think this is very revealing. The conversation is about Leonard but it can apply just as easily and equally to Amy. The part of Bernadette's comment in italics, I really have a hard time applying that to Leonard. It's a bit jarring to me because I don't see where it makes that much sense. It's not like women are lining up to be with Leonard so he's just choosing Penny, and Leonard truly believes that he is very lucky to be with her.  That has thrown me and I don't see where or how that fits to Leonard. But, it can apply to Amy. 

Amy has changed and I think, for the better.

We have always known that, unlike Sheldon, Amy has not bottled them up and has sexual urges. She masturbates, has had that quasi-lesbianism suggestive nature towards Penny, and has 'hoo'-ed Zach. And she is well versed in primate behavior. And for better or worse, she has been studying the behaviors of the couples around her. Now comparing the Lenny and Shamy coupledom is like comparing apples and oranges. Lenny is the emotional side, wisely or unwisely, following the urges and needs of the heart whereas Shamy are the more logical, considered pair, using their brains to guide them. 

BUT --

Regarding Amy, I saw that pretty much change in 8.03, First Pitch.

When the Lenny and Shamy are on the double date and Sheldon, based on the result of quiz, maintained he and Amy have the superior relationship. For me, this was the salient part of that whole scene and where I first noticed the change in Amy moving from a logic-based relationship to the need for more emotional support and tenderness.

Leonard: Marriage is scary. You're scared, I'm scared. But it doesn't make me not want to do it. It just makes me want to hold your hand and do it with you.

Penny: Awww! Leonard! 

Amy: It would make me so happy if you said things like that. (And I just want to add here that Mayim acted this line beautifully! She said the line very softly while staring at Leonard and Penny as they held hands and kissed, her eyes were wide, doe-eyed and wanting. Incredibly done!)

Sheldon: We got an eight-point-two. Trust me, you're happy.

At that moment, I thought, 'Uh-oh. Wake up, Sheldon. It's changed. She's not. Amy needs more from you now.'

Before the start of Season 9, CBS put up a video where all the cast are talking about what happened in the Season 8 finale and what it means for Season 9. Mayim was speaking to the fact about how the writers have not really given the reasons why for Amy to end the relationship. It is frustrating because it remains unexplained and it looks like they broke up over a thought bubble (credit: Nograv). Now, I'm only guessing here because the writers haven't told us, but I really think Amy has changed and needs more from Sheldon. He hasn't been the best boyfriend, his pet names for Amy of 'Gollum and Flaky' as well as his very nasty 'Czech Republic southern border' comment comes to mind. She has been incredibly patient. But perhaps, and again, I'm just guessing, maybe she has finally realized that she needs more and better from Sheldon and she doesn't have to settle. There are other men out there who can love her too without all the self-centeredness and the unkind comments.

This swings back to Bernadette's comments which I bolded and italicized: it's better to have a guy be with you because (s)he wants to be and not because (s)he thinks (s)he doesn't have any other choice. 

Amy just has to come to that decision and she will. They will get back together and it will be lovely with Amy and Sheldon BOTH learning and changing. 

And yes. You are completely entitled to your anger and anxiety. This is coming from a Lenny who lived through that god-awful Season 8 and that horrible fucking wedding and who also spent the summer 'weaning' herself from TBBT just in case Season 9 is as Lenny negligent as Season 8. 

But, it will get better.  Shamy will be made whole. 

 

 

 

 

I loved everything you explained here, and it makes a lot of sense.   Yes, I felt for the Lenny shippers, but always knew they would find their way back to each other.   I thought the Lenny wedding was done very poorly but Johnny and Kaley pulled it off and somehow made it special even if the writers cheapened it.

I try to remain positive about Shamy but every new S9 episode and every new interview that comes out just wrecks me.   It's never good when even the actors playing the characters hate the story line.

[hokie3457]

5Miss, full disclosure, my TBBT "credentials" are exactly as are yours.....IMO that was a fair gentle and cogent post. Sometimes standing back and looking at things through the POV of a slightly related fan (Lenny v. Shamy) can help enlighten.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JE7]

This season so far has been actively trying for the feel of "the old days" last week we got Howarf/Raj bromance, next week we get the throwback to the pre-Leonard apt. The Nimoy napkin is coming back (yeah!) So I am wondering (hoping? Praying?) Will we get to see "The Holy Grail" of Lennydom again? Will we get a return of.... The Snowflake!!!! 

Edited October 1, 2015 by JE7

[Mislav]

OK --

Poking my nose in here where it really doesn't belong for several reasons: I am a Lenny first, foremost, and will be always and I pretty much DGAF about Shamy. I  adore Amy but am no fan of Sheldon.  But for some reason, especially the bolded part, I think I may have something I can offer regarding Amy. But please, you see that I am openly and honestly giving you my TBBT 'credentials' and POV, so feel free to 'grain of salt' anything I say. 

In 9.02, when the girls were in Penny's apartment trying to help and support her about what happened with Leonard, we are given the following conversation.

Penny: You know, he never would have this when I first met him. He's cockier.

Amy: That's because you made him confident.

Bernadette: You know, if you think about it, without you, he never would have grown into the person he is now. I mean, sure, more women might notice him, but I think it's better to have a guy be with you because he wants to be and not because he thinks he doesn't have any other choice. 

I think this is very revealing. The conversation is about Leonard but it can apply just as easily and equally to Amy. The part of Bernadette's comment in italics, I really have a hard time applying that to Leonard. It's a bit jarring to me because I don't see where it makes that much sense. It's not like women are lining up to be with Leonard so he's just choosing Penny, and Leonard truly believes that he is very lucky to be with her.  That has thrown me and I don't see where or how that fits to Leonard. But, it can apply to Amy. 

Amy has changed and I think, for the better.

We have always known that, unlike Sheldon, Amy has not bottled them up and has sexual urges. She masturbates, has had that quasi-lesbianism suggestive nature towards Penny, and has 'hoo'-ed Zach. And she is well versed in primate behavior. And for better or worse, she has been studying the behaviors of the couples around her. Now comparing the Lenny and Shamy coupledom is like comparing apples and oranges. Lenny is the emotional side, wisely or unwisely, following the urges and needs of the heart whereas Shamy are the more logical, considered pair, using their brains to guide them. 

BUT --

Regarding Amy, I saw that pretty much change in 8.03, First Pitch.

When the Lenny and Shamy are on the double date and Sheldon, based on the result of quiz, maintained he and Amy have the superior relationship. For me, this was the salient part of that whole scene and where I first noticed the change in Amy moving from a logic-based relationship to the need for more emotional support and tenderness.

Leonard: Marriage is scary. You're scared, I'm scared. But it doesn't make me not want to do it. It just makes me want to hold your hand and do it with you.

Penny: Awww! Leonard! 

Amy: It would make me so happy if you said things like that. (And I just want to add here that Mayim acted this line beautifully! She said the line very softly while staring at Leonard and Penny as they held hands and kissed, her eyes were wide, doe-eyed and wanting. Incredibly done!)

Sheldon: We got an eight-point-two. Trust me, you're happy.

At that moment, I thought, 'Uh-oh. Wake up, Sheldon. It's changed. She's not. Amy needs more from you now.'

Before the start of Season 9, CBS put up a video where all the cast are talking about what happened in the Season 8 finale and what it means for Season 9. Mayim was speaking to the fact about how the writers have not really given the reasons why for Amy to end the relationship. It is frustrating because it remains unexplained and it looks like they broke up over a thought bubble (credit: Nograv). Now, I'm only guessing here because the writers haven't told us, but I really think Amy has changed and needs more from Sheldon. He hasn't been the best boyfriend, his pet names for Amy of 'Gollum and Flaky' as well as his very nasty 'Czech Republic southern border' comment comes to mind. She has been incredibly patient. But perhaps, and again, I'm just guessing, maybe she has finally realized that she needs more and better from Sheldon and she doesn't have to settle. There are other men out there who can love her too without all the self-centeredness and the unkind comments.

This swings back to Bernadette's comments which I bolded and italicized: it's better to have a guy be with you because (s)he wants to be and not because (s)he thinks (s)he doesn't have any other choice. 

Amy just has to come to that decision and she will. They will get back together and it will be lovely with Amy and Sheldon BOTH learning and changing. 

And yes. You are completely entitled to your anger and anxiety. This is coming from a Lenny who lived through that god-awful Season 8 and that horrible fucking wedding and who also spent the summer 'weaning' herself from TBBT just in case Season 9 is as Lenny negligent as Season 8. 

But, it will get better.  Shamy will be made whole. 

 

 

 

 

I do appreaciate your point of view and agree that Sheldon has to change. 

 

But I don't think that much Shamy fans are concerned about will or won't Shamy get back together. They just dislike the way the break up storyline is playing out, how OOC and unfunny it is, and how far will the writers go (making Amy sleep with somebody else, for example...) before they get them back together. The fact that they will eventually get back together isn't really comforting IMO (not criticising you, more the writers got apparently thinking they can throw anything in our way if the couples get together in the end). What is sad is that we can only watch and hope the things get better, or give up on the show (which I will probably do soon).